Using local variables and set and named selection names in a recursive situation

[Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech]

Using v17:

I have a method that recursively deletes records from related tables.
Something like this (vastly simplified):

// recursiveDelete
$tablenumber:=$1
$TablePtr:=table(tablenumber)
all records(TablePtr->)
create named selection(TablePtr->;"$deletes")
for($i;1;records in selection(TablePtr->))
// find related records in another table - eg table no. 2
recursiveDelete(2)
use named selection("$deletes")
next record(TablePtr->)
end for

The problem is that the named selection $deletes seems to work like a
process variable instead of a local variable. IE if on the first iteration
there are 200 records in $deletes, and on the second iteration there are 0
records in $deletes, then when it loops back to the first iteration there
are 0 records in $deletes whereas there should be 200.

Is it supposed to work like that? It isn't logical, Mr. Spock.

My workaround is to keep track of the iteration level and create a new set
name for each level.
The same thing happens with both named selections and sets.

Pat


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Re: Using local variables and set and named selection names in a recursive situation

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Pat,
I am less familiar with named selections...I am assuming that they 
operate in a similar manner to sets (see below).

With sets:
-$setname is a PROCESS set, and is NOT available on server
-setname is a process set + is available on server
-<>set name is an interprocess set, and (I believe) is not available on 
server
-creating "setname" on [table_one], then creating "setname" on 
[table_Two], removes from existence the set on table one -- as if it 
never existed.

in answer to your specific question- YES you need to create a new 
setname on each recursive call
you can do something like:
$Setname:="$"+tablename($Table_Pointer)
Create set($Setname)

(replace Create set with Copy named selection as needed.

Chip

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 13:04:15 +0100, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech wrote:
> 
> My workaround is to keep track of the iteration level and create a new set
> name for each level.
> The same thing happens with both named selections and sets.
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4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[ADeeg via 4D_Tech]

Hi list users,

I've posted some feature requests to speed up the 4d write pro development.

The rule from 4D is, more demand from us, is more chance to get this
features.
So please support me and klick the 4 stars to support these features.

1. 4D Write Pro Toolbar - more features please, images, tables and tabs
link: http://forums.4d.com/Post/DE/25450673/1/25450674

2. 4D Write Pro, smaller horizontal ruler option
link: http://forums.4d.com/Post/DE/22754850/1/22754851

3. 4D Write Pro - need vertical ruler like MS Word
link: http://forums.4d.com/Post/DE/25467416/1/25467417

FR from Alfonso: 4D Write Pro Import-Export Word
link: http://forums.4d.com/Post/DE/25361165/1/25361166


Thanks Armin 



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Re: Using local variables and set and named selection names in a recursive situation

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

Hi Pat,

There is no such thing as a local named selection. That is just a named 
selection name that begins with a "$" character. A leading $ in a string has a 
meaning for a local set name, but that just means the set is only on the client 
and not the server. See 

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17/Named-Selections.300-3730545.en.html

which discusses both sets and named selections.

Within the scope of the process, you need to have unique names to have 
different sets or named selections. I always use a generator function rather 
than naming directly. It gives you a unique name and you can encode the table 
and other information in the name.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.





> On Aug 29, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> create named selection(TablePtr->;"$deletes")

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Colocation - Recommendations Survey

[Randy Engle via 4D_Tech]

We are ready to roll out a couple of SaaS/Cloud solutions

We have our test server installed at our site, but know that for production, it 
really needs to be at much more protected/powerbacked facility.
We will also "very likely" need access via Citrix/Remote Desktop as besides the 
web interface, we will also need a standard 4D Client connection.
The performance over WAN to the server will most likely not be adequate.  It's 
a relatively complex app with 200+tables.
This will be 4D Server v17+

It looks like there's a zillion options out there.
I'm looking for recommendations from anyone successfully using these types of 
services.

Gracious thanks


Randy Engle, Director
XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!


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4D Write to 4D Write Pro

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

Is there a cross reference of language commands between 4D Write and 4D Write 
Pro or do we have to all figure it out for ourselves? 

I’m mystified as to why wrappers for the old commands could not have been 
created so as to make the move to 4D Write Pro relatively painless. E-node did 
this very nicely when they created the new API for AreaList. All the old 
commands still work because they are internally mapped to the new ones. Why 
can’t this be done for 4D Write Pro? If it’s truly ready to go, scrap 4D Write 
but create a shell plugin that maps all the old commands to the new. With Mac 
Mojave being the last OS to support 32 applications it’s going to get serious 
pretty soon.


Richard Wright
DataDomain
rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com


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Re: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

You’re kidding, right? 4D Write Pro can’t read and write Word documents?


> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 05:56:51 -0700 (MST)
> From: ADeeg 
> 
> 
> FR from Alfonso: 4D Write Pro Import-Export Word
> link: http://forums.4d.com/Post/DE/25361165/1/25361166
> 

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Re: CALL WORKER questions

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Jim,
Miyako's post is a concise primer for modern 4D forms. Being able to pass a
pointer to a dynamic form variable to another process, even one running on
the server, is a great feature and one I've been using for several years.
Let me share a couple of things I've learned doing this:

- avoid using the pointer in methods
Create a local variable, dereference the pointer to it if you need to, do
the calculations and then write the local var back to the pointer. This is
especially helpful if you are passing pointers to arrays. Dereferencing
pointers is very fast but it's noticeable. Plus it's easier to debug a
method using local vars instead of pointers.

$localVar:=$1->

--  do stuff --

$1->:=$localVar

- use objects

I use Execute on server a lot for collecting information for forms. I have
really come to appreciate using a c-object as the container in these cases
(really almost all cases). You can put anything into it (blobs are clunky).
Object operations are very fast and you only have one pointer to worry
about. Even moving arrays is fast and easy - easier than packing and
unpacking blobs. And again debugging is easier because you are working with
local vars on both sides of the transfer.

I work almost exclusively on 4D server so I'm always looking at these
questions from that perspective. But these work just as well in single
user.


Another idea for handling the "
certain actions will query a service, which could take up to a few seconds
" problem.
If this is data that is always based on the same criteria (eg. a
'scoreboard' listing of salesreps and month to moment sales) start a
background server process to periodically assemble this data and hold it in
variables. Clients simply use variable to variable to read those variables
for display.

If the data is specific to the user or record displayed you could do the
same thing on the client machine.

In both cases if you don't like variable to variable (and there are good
reasons not to), or are using a Worker, the output could be written to a
table ( [IP_msgs]) and the form reads the messages. This would allow a user
to click a button as much as they like and not hork things up since it
would simply read whatever the message is.
-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*We go vote - they go home*
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Re: Set Environment Variable

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

what I am using YMMV


SET ENVIRONMENT VARIABLE("_4D_OPTION_HIDE_CONSOLE";"true")
SET ENVIRONMENT 
VARIABLE("_4D_OPTION_BLOCKING_EXTERNAL_PROCESS";"true")  // wait for it 
to finish

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 10:14:02 -0600, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech wrote:
> I am using the Launch External Process to get information via wmic. 
> Of course the cmd line window pops up for a second. I would like to 
> stop this. The Set Environment Variable command is supposed to do 
> this. Of course though, I need to know the environment variable to do 
> this with. I am having difficulty finding what this is.
> 
> I am running Windows 10 64bit, but clients are running anywhere from 
> Windows 7 and up.
> 
> Any pointers on finding out what the environment variable is?
> 
> Set Environment Variable(varName;varValue)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jody
> 
> 
> Jody Bevan
> Developer
> 
> Argus Productions Inc. 
> +1 587-487-6120
> 
> 
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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RE: pdfCreator problem

[Randy Engle via 4D_Tech]

Keith,

Two thumbs up for Armin's plugin.
Yes, there is a cost, but eliminates a lot of headaches

Randy Engle, Director
XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!

Keith wrote
> Hi all.
> We have suddenly struck a problem with pdfCreator v1.7.2 not working 
> when using a built 4D Client via Remote Desktop Connection access.
> It used to work, but started giving problems about a month ago (that's 
> when we first detected it).
> 
> pdfCreator works just fine when the 4D Client is accessed via Ericom 
> and the Chrome browser, but not when accessed via Remote Desktop Connection.
> In the latter case, the problem manifests itself when the document 
> that pdfCreator is told to create in the Temp folder in the User 
> folder doesn't happen, and an error is then generated when the code tries to 
> access it.
> The error can be trapped but the document is needed.
> It is not a user permissions problem because the code can write csv 
> files to the same folder.
> 
> It happens for both 4D v15.2 and v17.0 HF1. 
> The computer is a cloud server VM running OS is Windows Server 2008 R2 
> Datacenter / Service Pack 1.
> 
> Has anyone come across this or something like it?
> Thanks, Keith

Keith,

try this pdf plugin http://www.node.de/indexplug.htm

regards Armin



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Re: pdfCreator problem

[Spencer Hinsdale via 4D_Tech]

+1

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 8:19 AM, Randy Engle via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Keith,
> 
> Two thumbs up for Armin's plugin.
> Yes, there is a cost, but eliminates a lot of headaches
> 
> Randy Engle, Director
> XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!
> 
> Keith wrote
>> Hi all.
>> We have suddenly struck a problem with pdfCreator v1.7.2 not working 
>> when using a built 4D Client via Remote Desktop Connection access.
>> It used to work, but started giving problems about a month ago (that's 
>> when we first detected it).
>> 
>> pdfCreator works just fine when the 4D Client is accessed via Ericom 
>> and the Chrome browser, but not when accessed via Remote Desktop Connection.
>> In the latter case, the problem manifests itself when the document 
>> that pdfCreator is told to create in the Temp folder in the User 
>> folder doesn't happen, and an error is then generated when the code tries to 
>> access it.
>> The error can be trapped but the document is needed.
>> It is not a user permissions problem because the code can write csv 
>> files to the same folder.
>> 
>> It happens for both 4D v15.2 and v17.0 HF1. 
>> The computer is a cloud server VM running OS is Windows Server 2008 R2 
>> Datacenter / Service Pack 1.
>> 
>> Has anyone come across this or something like it?
>> Thanks, Keith
> 
> Keith,
> 
> try this pdf plugin http://www.node.de/indexplug.htm
> 
> regards Armin
> 
> 
> 
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Set Environment Variable

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

I am using the Launch External Process to get information via wmic. Of course 
the cmd line window pops up for a second. I would like to stop this. The Set 
Environment Variable command is supposed to do this. Of course though, I need 
to know the environment variable to do this with. I am having difficulty 
finding what this is.

I am running Windows 10 64bit, but clients are running anywhere from Windows 7 
and up.

Any pointers on finding out what the environment variable is?

Set Environment Variable(varName;varValue)

Thanks

Jody


Jody Bevan
Developer

Argus Productions Inc. 
+1 587-487-6120



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Re: Colocation - Recommendations Survey

[Guy Algot via 4D_Tech]

Randy,

If you are looking for a place to park your own hardware, I have had a server 
with these folks for several years. Zero complaints. Excellent service. I use 
them with my hardware but they could offer other options that would suit your 
needs.

https://www.macminivault.com


> On Aug 29, 2018, at 10:09 AM, Randy Engle via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> We are ready to roll out a couple of SaaS/Cloud solutions
> 
> We have our test server installed at our site, but know that for production, 
> it really needs to be at much more protected/powerbacked facility.
> We will also "very likely" need access via Citrix/Remote Desktop as besides 
> the web interface, we will also need a standard 4D Client connection.
> The performance over WAN to the server will most likely not be adequate.  
> It's a relatively complex app with 200+tables.
> This will be 4D Server v17+
> 
> It looks like there's a zillion options out there.
> I'm looking for recommendations from anyone successfully using these types of 
> services.
> 
> Gracious thanks
> 
> 
> Randy Engle, Director
> XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!


Later,
Guy

--
Guy Algot, Solutions Specialist
Edmonton, Alberta
(780) 974-8538

hardware, installation, training, support, programming, internet
specializing in 4th Dimension
=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Microsoft is a cross between the Borg and the Ferengi. Unfortunately,
they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to do their programming."
-- Simon Slavin



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Re: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM,Richard Wright wrote:

> Is there a cross reference of language commands between 4D Write and 4D Write 
> Pro or do we have to all figure it out for ourselves? 
> 
> I’m mystified as to why wrappers for the old commands could not have been 
> created so as to make the move to 4D Write Pro relatively painless. E-node 
> did this very nicely when they created the new API for AreaList. All the old 
> commands still work because they are internally mapped to the new ones. Why 
> can’t this be done for 4D Write Pro? If it’s truly ready to go, scrap 4D 
> Write but create a shell plugin that maps all the old commands to the new. 
> With Mac Mojave being the last OS to support 32 applications it’s going to 
> get serious pretty soon.

Hi Rich,

You have to figure it out for yourself. And you have to rewrite — from scratch 
— all existing 4D Write Plugin code. No direct one-to-one- command replacement. 
Some commands not available now. Some commands now require multiple 4D commands 
to accomplish the same thing. 

They said that this was a project where they decided from the very beginning to 
not provide any programming language legacy support. None. Zero.  

The only legacy support they promised to provide is to convert legacy 4D Write 
documents. 

You are on your own dealing with any programming code. 

This is the general takeaway I get with this issue. The 4D Write Plugin still 
works and can coexist with 4D Write Pro. So you can start migrating — which in 
this case is rewrite it from scratch — and continue to use your old code. Once 
you have all the code rewritten and tested and working, you can dump the old 
code, and you’ll have to when you remove the plugin because all the plugin 
command will no longer tokenize. So get ready to delete a bunch of methods. 

The only reason to stop using 4D Write Plugin is if you want 64bit 
compatibility. That’s basically it. If you can live with 32bit 4D Client you 
are fine. But if you want to run 64bit 4D Client and use 4D Write, you must 
switch to 4D Write Pro. 

For one of my clients they are excited about getting SDI mode on Windows. 
Everyone has multiple monitors and they have wanted this for a long time. Now 
they can have it. But they are the 90 user 4D Write Plugin client. So to get 
SDI you MUST go to 64bit compiled version. So they are going to have to pay for 
the 4D Write code rewrite just so they can get SDI. So they are swallowing it, 
but not super happy about it. 

Crazy thing is that to get SDI all you really need to do is check a checkbox 
and recompile. But if you use 4D Write, then it requires a lot more work.

As they say… it is what it is. 

But I have a crazy idea… 

What if someone created a 4D component that had the major 4D Write Plugin 
commands with all the same parameters but as 4D component methods. And each 
method accomplished the same results as the plugin command. Then you could 
remove the 4D Write Plugin, install the component and run a syntax check to 
expose every method and line using the plugin commands. Then you open each 
method and force a retokenization to magically change each line to use the 
component method instead of the plugin command. That gets you 90% of the way 
there without a major code rewrite.

I did exactly this for 2 clients — different than these 2 clients — when I 
upgraded them from v2004 to v11 and 4D dropped the 4D Open for 4D plugin. I 
created a “4D Open for 4D SOAP” component that allowed me to not rewrite all 
the 4D Open code. It was a lot of work, but in the end it was less than 
rewriting all the existing code. And I could use it for 2 clients. The 2 shared 
the upgrade cost. 

When I get ready to do the SDI work for 1 client and need to rewrite all the 4D 
Write code, I’m going to look into doing the same thing. Might be possible. 
Might not be possible. But at least I’ve done it before so probably a day or 
two of analysis and prototyping work will tell me if it can be done. 

Tim

*
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com
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Re: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

We’ve been looking at converting a pretty complex system with form letters, 
paragraphs, lots of imbedded fields, hot links and html expressions. It looks 
like a huge job just trying to convert the old docs. We think the rewrite will 
take more effort than the original development. 

Paul 

> On 29 Aug 2018, at 21:12, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Richard Wright wrote:
>> 
>> You’re kidding, right? 4D Write Pro can’t read and write Word documents?
> 
> Nope, it is true. For this version. I have 2 clients that are big 4D Write 
> users (one with a 90 user license) and use 4D Write to create Word documents. 
> 
> I've asked about this at every 4D Summit where they demoed 4D Write Pro. At 
> the first showing several years ago the answer was “we will support all the 
> current 4D Write Plugin features”. Then at a later 4D Summits it was said, it 
> is not there now but it is coming. At the last 4D Summit the answer was “we 
> don’t think any/many developers use it”. Even though I’m the one saying to 
> them “I use it a lot for 2 clients!”
> 
> So maybe you can flex some OEM muscle and get this put on the “must have” 
> feature list for the next version. I hope you can because I’ve had zero luck, 
> and I was speaking directly to the 4D Write Pro lead engineer.
> 
> Tim
> 
> *
> Tim Nevels
> Innovative Solutions
> 785-749-3444
> timnev...@mac.com
> *
> 
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Re: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[JOHN BAUGHMAN via 4D_Tech]

One thing I found to be very helpful was to see how the WriteLike tool bar 
available via the blog does things. Most things we do programmatically in write 
or pro are done via the tool bars buttons and menus as well. So often when I 
was struggling to convert a 4D Write command of function to pro I found an 
example of how to do it int he WrtieLike tool bar code.

John



> On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:45 AM, John Baughman via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I gave up trying to convert write documents to Pro reliably. Fortunately for 
> me with a few exceptions the existing write documents are not supposed to be 
> modifiable so I decided to convert them to PDFs. New documents going forward 
> will be pro only. 
> 
> John Baughman
> Kailua, Hawaii
> john...@hawaii.rr.com
> 
>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We’ve been looking at converting a pretty complex system with form letters, 
>> paragraphs, lots of imbedded fields, hot links and html expressions. It 
>> looks like a huge job just trying to convert the old docs. We think the 
>> rewrite will take more effort than the original development. 
>> 
>> Paul 
>> 
 On 29 Aug 2018, at 21:12, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
 wrote:
 
 On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Richard Wright wrote:
 
 You’re kidding, right? 4D Write Pro can’t read and write Word documents?
>>> 
>>> Nope, it is true. For this version. I have 2 clients that are big 4D Write 
>>> users (one with a 90 user license) and use 4D Write to create Word 
>>> documents. 
>>> 
>>> I've asked about this at every 4D Summit where they demoed 4D Write Pro. At 
>>> the first showing several years ago the answer was “we will support all the 
>>> current 4D Write Plugin features”. Then at a later 4D Summits it was said, 
>>> it is not there now but it is coming. At the last 4D Summit the answer was 
>>> “we don’t think any/many developers use it”. Even though I’m the one saying 
>>> to them “I use it a lot for 2 clients!”
>>> 
>>> So maybe you can flex some OEM muscle and get this put on the “must have” 
>>> feature list for the next version. I hope you can because I’ve had zero 
>>> luck, and I was speaking directly to the 4D Write Pro lead engineer.
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
>>> *
>>> Tim Nevels
>>> Innovative Solutions
>>> 785-749-3444
>>> timnev...@mac.com
>>> *
>>> 
>>> **
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Re: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

One solution for this is to just create a "stub" plugin that does nothing 
except load properly on 64 bit. Then copy all of the 4D Write resources to it. 
That way you can keep the old code around as long as you need it for reference. 
I think I did it by finding a small 64 bit plugin and then replacing the 
resources with the files from 4D Write.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.



> On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:38 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Once you have all the code rewritten and tested and working, you can dump the 
> old code, and you’ll have to when you remove the plugin because all the 
> plugin command will no longer tokenize. So get ready to delete a bunch of 
> methods. 

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Re: Roy (Suzi) McGregor Paterson R.I.P

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Wayne:

Sorry to read about this.

My condolences to her family and other loved ones.

May she rest in peace.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902


On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 6:19 PM Wayne Stewart via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This was submitted to 4D Today (which I rarely update anymore) a few
> days ago.  I've decided to post it here.  As far as I can tell
> Roy/Suzi last posted in 2007 to the iNUG.
>
> Sad news to report from the UK   Roy McGregor Paterson
>
> Roy (a.k.a. Suzi) who worked with 4D from the early days passed away
> on August 5th 2018.
>
> Often present at the London 4D user group and attended many of the
> Summits particularly in the U.S.A  ? always energetic, enthusiastic
> and fun. An ardent Mac user originally working in 4D on complex
> banking systems developed for JP Morgan.  Founder of -McGregor Tech,
> very popular at the 4D conferences always up for a chat, techie debate
> and of course a good laugh.
>
> Suzi MacGregor Paterson died on 5th August 2018.
>
> The funeral is on Monday 3rd September 2018 at Mortlake Crematorium
> TW9 4EN London U.K. at 11.20 am.
>
> A Tribute website is at:
> suzi-paterson.muchloved.com 
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Wayne
> **
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RE: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

.doc is probably an issue as it is a proprietary format from MS.
.docx might not be such an issue as it is "open" and is supposed to be 
based on xml.

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:22:02 +, Michael McCall via 4D_Tech wrote:
> doc export option we will be unable to use it. This is an essential 
> feature and we can only hope that it arrives quickly.
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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RE: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro

[Vance Villanueva via 4D_Tech]

Hi Richard,

4D Write Pro is a newly developed architecture.  There are no cross references 
of 4D Write Pro commands from 4D Write.  We have resources to convert 4D Write 
docs to 4D Write Pro.  Also, we have resources of 4D Write Pro in doc.4d.com, 
blog.4d.com, and kb.4d.com for the transition from 4D Write.

Regards,

Vance Villanueva




-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Richard Wright 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:45 AM
To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
Cc: Richard Wright
Subject: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro

Is there a cross reference of language commands between 4D Write and 4D Write 
Pro or do we have to all figure it out for ourselves?

I’m mystified as to why wrappers for the old commands could not have been 
created so as to make the move to 4D Write Pro relatively painless. E-node did 
this very nicely when they created the new API for AreaList. All the old 
commands still work because they are internally mapped to the new ones. Why 
can’t this be done for 4D Write Pro? If it’s truly ready to go, scrap 4D Write 
but create a shell plugin that maps all the old commands to the new. With Mac 
Mojave being the last OS to support 32 applications it’s going to get serious 
pretty soon.


Richard Wright
DataDomain
rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com


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4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Richard Wright wrote:

> You’re kidding, right? 4D Write Pro can’t read and write Word documents?

Nope, it is true. For this version. I have 2 clients that are big 4D Write 
users (one with a 90 user license) and use 4D Write to create Word documents. 

I've asked about this at every 4D Summit where they demoed 4D Write Pro. At the 
first showing several years ago the answer was “we will support all the current 
4D Write Plugin features”. Then at a later 4D Summits it was said, it is not 
there now but it is coming. At the last 4D Summit the answer was “we don’t 
think any/many developers use it”. Even though I’m the one saying to them “I 
use it a lot for 2 clients!”

So maybe you can flex some OEM muscle and get this put on the “must have” 
feature list for the next version. I hope you can because I’ve had zero luck, 
and I was speaking directly to the 4D Write Pro lead engineer.

Tim

*
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com
*

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Re: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

In our case, users have created about 1,500 template documents in 7 languages. 
I’d be lynched if I didn’t provide a path to convert them. 

Paul 

> On 29 Aug 2018, at 21:56, Richard Wright via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> That’s what I was afraid of. Does it not occur to anyone at 4D that people 
> have existing code to manipulate 4D Write documents and that that code has to 
> be rewritten to work with 4D Write Pro? The lack of a command cross reference 
> makes the process unnecessarily difficult and maybe you end up 90% through 
> the process only to find out that a certain functionality has not been 
> retained in “Pro". How hard could it be to write such a thing? After all, 
> when 4D Write Pro was being written, surely the starting point would have 
> been to retain all existing features and then give us all the great new 
> things. So you create a list of existing commands and then you check them off 
> as those functions are rewritten in “Pro”. How else could you know that you 
> haven’t missed something? Reading a bunch of blogs is not all the same thing 
> as an accurate cross reference.
> 
> 
> Richard Wright
> DataDomain
> rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:57:19 +
>> From: Vance Villanueva 
>> 
>> Hi Richard,
>> 
>> 4D Write Pro is a newly developed architecture.  There are no cross 
>> references of 4D Write Pro commands from 4D Write.  We have resources to 
>> convert 4D Write docs to 4D Write Pro.  Also, we have resources of 4D Write 
>> Pro in doc.4d.com, blog.4d.com, and kb.4d.com for the transition from 4D 
>> Write.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Vance Villanueva
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Richard 
>> Wright via 4D_Tech
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:45 AM
>> To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
>> Cc: Richard Wright
>> Subject: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro
>> 
>> Is there a cross reference of language commands between 4D Write and 4D 
>> Write Pro or do we have to all figure it out for ourselves?
>> 
>> I’m mystified as to why wrappers for the old commands could not have been 
>> created so as to make the move to 4D Write Pro relatively painless. E-node 
>> did this very nicely when they created the new API for AreaList. All the old 
>> commands still work because they are internally mapped to the new ones. Why 
>> can’t this be done for 4D Write Pro? If it’s truly ready to go, scrap 4D 
>> Write but create a shell plugin that maps all the old commands to the new. 
>> With Mac Mojave being the last OS to support 32 applications it’s going to 
>> get serious pretty soon.
>> 
>> 
>> Richard Wright
>> DataDomain
>> rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
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Re: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Aug 29, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Chuck Miller wrote:

> I also have one client that is a huge 4d write user. We also need to have 
> ability to convert to Microsoft word. Additionally, there are some things we 
> do not seem to be able to do in write pro so for now, we will be maintain 4d 
> write licenses across multiple servers and standalone dos. At the last Summit 
> many spoke of this issue and 4D stated that they were going to implement 
> export to word and not rtf.

That’s fantastic news! Glad to hear support for Word is coming. 

Tim

*
Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com
*

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RE: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Michael McCall via 4D_Tech]

4D Write had an an export to RTF option which worked with MS Word. That was the 
main reason we used 4D Write. Until 4D Write Pro has an .rtf or .doc export 
option we will be unable to use it. This is an essential feature and we can 
only hope that it arrives quickly.

I just added my name to the list of those requesting this feature. I was 
frankly stunned when I found out it didn't exist in 4D Write Pro.

Mike McCall
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Re: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[John Baughman via 4D_Tech]

I gave up trying to convert write documents to Pro reliably. Fortunately for me 
with a few exceptions the existing write documents are not supposed to be 
modifiable so I decided to convert them to PDFs. New documents going forward 
will be pro only. 

John Baughman
Kailua, Hawaii
john...@hawaii.rr.com

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> We’ve been looking at converting a pretty complex system with form letters, 
> paragraphs, lots of imbedded fields, hot links and html expressions. It looks 
> like a huge job just trying to convert the old docs. We think the rewrite 
> will take more effort than the original development. 
> 
> Paul 
> 
>>> On 29 Aug 2018, at 21:12, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Richard Wright wrote:
>>> 
>>> You’re kidding, right? 4D Write Pro can’t read and write Word documents?
>> 
>> Nope, it is true. For this version. I have 2 clients that are big 4D Write 
>> users (one with a 90 user license) and use 4D Write to create Word 
>> documents. 
>> 
>> I've asked about this at every 4D Summit where they demoed 4D Write Pro. At 
>> the first showing several years ago the answer was “we will support all the 
>> current 4D Write Plugin features”. Then at a later 4D Summits it was said, 
>> it is not there now but it is coming. At the last 4D Summit the answer was 
>> “we don’t think any/many developers use it”. Even though I’m the one saying 
>> to them “I use it a lot for 2 clients!”
>> 
>> So maybe you can flex some OEM muscle and get this put on the “must have” 
>> feature list for the next version. I hope you can because I’ve had zero 
>> luck, and I was speaking directly to the 4D Write Pro lead engineer.
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> *
>> Tim Nevels
>> Innovative Solutions
>> 785-749-3444
>> timnev...@mac.com
>> *
>> 
>> **
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Re: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech]

I also have one client that is a huge 4d write user. We also need to have 
ability to convert to Microsoft word. Additionally, there are some things we do 
not seem to be able to do in write pro so for now, we will be maintain 4d write 
licenses across multiple servers and standalone dos. At the last Summit many 
spoke of this issue and 4D stated that they were going to implement export to 
word and not rtf.

The same thing occurred in quick reports. The 64 but version did not at  first 
release support cross table reports which we use extensively

Perhaps we can create a survey and ask 4dwrite users what is stopping them from 
going to write pro


Regards

Chuck

 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
 Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
 mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com  

This message and any attached documents contain information which may be 
confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable 
law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the intended recipient. 
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby 
notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, storage, 
modification or the taking of any action in reliance upon this transmission is 
strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this message to any person other than the 
intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such confidentiality, 
privilege or exemption from disclosure as to this communication. 

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>  Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Richard Wright wrote:
> 
>> You’re kidding, right? 4D Write Pro can’t read and write Word documents?
> 
> Nope, it is true. For this version. I have 2 clients that are big 4D Write 
> users (one with a 90 user license) and use 4D Write to create Word documents. 
> 
> I've asked about this at every 4D Summit where they demoed 4D Write Pro. At 
> the first showing several years ago the answer was “we will support all the 
> current 4D Write Plugin features”. Then at a later 4D Summits it was said, it 
> is not there now but it is coming. At the last 4D Summit the answer was “we 
> don’t think any/many developers use it”. Even though I’m the one saying to 
> them “I use it a lot for 2 clients!”
> 
> So maybe you can flex some OEM muscle and get this put on the “must have” 
> feature list for the next version. I hope you can because I’ve had zero luck, 
> and I was speaking directly to the 4D Write Pro lead engineer.
> 
> Tim

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Re: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

That’s what I was afraid of. Does it not occur to anyone at 4D that people have 
existing code to manipulate 4D Write documents and that that code has to be 
rewritten to work with 4D Write Pro? The lack of a command cross reference 
makes the process unnecessarily difficult and maybe you end up 90% through the 
process only to find out that a certain functionality has not been retained in 
“Pro". How hard could it be to write such a thing? After all, when 4D Write Pro 
was being written, surely the starting point would have been to retain all 
existing features and then give us all the great new things. So you create a 
list of existing commands and then you check them off as those functions are 
rewritten in “Pro”. How else could you know that you haven’t missed something? 
Reading a bunch of blogs is not all the same thing as an accurate cross 
reference.


Richard Wright
DataDomain
rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com



> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:57:19 +
> From: Vance Villanueva 
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> 4D Write Pro is a newly developed architecture.  There are no cross 
> references of 4D Write Pro commands from 4D Write.  We have resources to 
> convert 4D Write docs to 4D Write Pro.  Also, we have resources of 4D Write 
> Pro in doc.4d.com, blog.4d.com, and kb.4d.com for the transition from 4D 
> Write.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Vance Villanueva
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Richard 
> Wright via 4D_Tech
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 9:45 AM
> To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
> Cc: Richard Wright
> Subject: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro
> 
> Is there a cross reference of language commands between 4D Write and 4D Write 
> Pro or do we have to all figure it out for ourselves?
> 
> I’m mystified as to why wrappers for the old commands could not have been 
> created so as to make the move to 4D Write Pro relatively painless. E-node 
> did this very nicely when they created the new API for AreaList. All the old 
> commands still work because they are internally mapped to the new ones. Why 
> can’t this be done for 4D Write Pro? If it’s truly ready to go, scrap 4D 
> Write but create a shell plugin that maps all the old commands to the new. 
> With Mac Mojave being the last OS to support 32 applications it’s going to 
> get serious pretty soon.
> 
> 
> Richard Wright
> DataDomain
> rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com




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Re: 4D Write to 4D Write Pro

[Richard Wright via 4D_Tech]

That’s a great idea, Tim (and I remember you showing me that code). It might 
not be that much work for us to do for the subset of 4D Write commands that we 
use. Or maybe just create wrapper functions directly in the application that 
contain a switch telling whether to use 4D Write Pro or 4D Write Amateur. That 
could be done upfront and then use Global Find and Replace to swap the wrappers 
for the plugin calls. Still have to figure out the command cross-reference, 
however, which is the real kicker.

I’d love to stay in 32 bit mode that’s soon not going to be possible on the Mac 
side of things.


Richard Wright
DataDomain
rwri...@datadomainsoftware.com



> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 14:38:46 -0500
> From: Tim Nevels 
> 
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM,Richard Wright wrote:
> 
>> Is there a cross reference of language commands between 4D Write and 4D 
>> Write Pro or do we have to all figure it out for ourselves? 
>> 
>> I’m mystified as to why wrappers for the old commands could not have been 
>> created so as to make the move to 4D Write Pro relatively painless. E-node 
>> did this very nicely when they created the new API for AreaList. All the old 
>> commands still work because they are internally mapped to the new ones. Why 
>> can’t this be done for 4D Write Pro? If it’s truly ready to go, scrap 4D 
>> Write but create a shell plugin that maps all the old commands to the new. 
>> With Mac Mojave being the last OS to support 32 applications it’s going to 
>> get serious pretty soon.
> 
> 
> But I have a crazy idea… 
> 
> What if someone created a 4D component that had the major 4D Write Plugin 
> commands with all the same parameters but as 4D component methods. And each 
> method accomplished the same results as the plugin command. Then you could 
> remove the 4D Write Plugin, install the component and run a syntax check to 
> expose every method and line using the plugin commands. Then you open each 
> method and force a retokenization to magically change each line to use the 
> component method instead of the plugin command. That gets you 90% of the way 
> there without a major code rewrite.
> 
> I did exactly this for 2 clients — different than these 2 clients — when I 
> upgraded them from v2004 to v11 and 4D dropped the 4D Open for 4D plugin. I 
> created a “4D Open for 4D SOAP” component that allowed me to not rewrite all 
> the 4D Open code. It was a lot of work, but in the end it was less than 
> rewriting all the existing code. And I could use it for 2 clients. The 2 
> shared the upgrade cost. 
> 
> When I get ready to do the SDI work for 1 client and need to rewrite all the 
> 4D Write code, I’m going to look into doing the same thing. Might be 
> possible. Might not be possible. But at least I’ve done it before so probably 
> a day or two of analysis and prototyping work will tell me if it can be done. 
> 
> Tim
> 
> *
> Tim Nevels
> Innovative Solutions
> 785-749-3444
> timnev...@mac.com
> *



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Re: Emoticons, Emoji, put pictures into eve

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

sounds like your compatibility settings does not allow methods to be stored in 
unicode.

emoticons are internally 2 or 4 combining characters which explains the number 
of question marks




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Re(2): 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Don Lapin via 4D_Tech]

I would suggest keeping the pressure on them. They've gone every which-way 
about promising 4D Write Pro features. As it has been delivered, it is 
unusable. I've the same issue with Word compatibility.

When I click on the link from the original poster, I get into a list of forums, 
not the request. What's the problem -- login?

Thanks,
Don

>On Aug 29, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Chuck Miller wrote:
>
>> I also have one client that is a huge 4d write user. We also need to
>have ability to convert to Microsoft word. Additionally, there are some
>things we do not seem to be able to do in write pro so for now, we will
>be maintain 4d write licenses across multiple servers and standalone
>dos. At the last Summit many spoke of this issue and 4D stated that they
>were going to implement export to word and not rtf.
>
>That's fantastic news! Glad to hear support for Word is coming. 
>
>Tim
>
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>Innovative Solutions
>785-749-3444
>timnev...@mac.com
>*
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Re: Emoticons, Emoji, put pictures into eve

[Jim Crate via 4D_Tech]

I tried to use an emoji in 4D, and while it pasted right into a string literal 
in the method editor, it doesn’t actually work that way and turns into ?? when 
you close the method editor. So I found this email to the list from a few years 
ago, but the ftp link no longer works. This should be supported natively by now 
(maybe in v17?) but could anyone send me this emoji method?

Thanks!

Jim Crate
 

> On Oct 12, 2015, at 1:34 AM, JPR  wrote:
> 
> [JPR]
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I got some questions about the possibility to insert pictures into some form 
> objects in 4D (like Listboxes, Buttons, or even simple texts) in a simple 
> way. So I thought I can use Emoticons (or Emojis). I found around 5 600 
> different pictures (many kind of pictures, + math symbols, Braille, music 
> notes, and many more). So I made a simple application in order to show all of 
> them, and a Method to insert Emoticons directly in texts, at any place. You 
> will find also, for some of it, a Name and Keywords.
> 
> You will find this application, named Emoji.4dbase, here: 
> 
> ftp://JPR:xjlr...@ftp-support.4d.fr/
> 
> The Database itself is just to help you in your infinite quest for interface.
> 
> To add it to your own databases, just copy the Emoji Method. To insert an 
> Emoticon in a text, just do something like this:
> 
> MyText := "Blah blah blah " + Emoji("U+2705") + " and the rest of the text..."
> 
> Emoji is the method which will translate the Unicode Hexadecimal Code Point 
> passed as parameter, and it returns a double (or quadruple) byte Unicode 
> character.
> If you are not familiar with Unicode Code Point, have a look here: 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_point
> 
> Feel free to use it as much as you want, I'm happy if it saves you valuable 
> development time!
> 
> My very best,
> 
> JPR
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RE: Re(2): 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

> When I click on the link from the original poster, I get into a list of 
> forums, not the request. What's the problem -- login?

You must be logged in to view the Feature Request forum.

-Tim



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RE: 4D Write Pro WP feature request - need your support

[Michael McCall via 4D_Tech]

Hi Chip,

Thanks for the clarification.

In our case .docx and / or .rtf would be acceptable. We don't need .doc 
specifically. 

We need something which could be saved as a stand alone document and easily 
opened and edited within MS Word.

Thanks again,

Mike 
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