Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 at 10:09, Edouard Klein wrote: > I love it when I discover that something down on my todo-list has > already been done, [ ... > ... ] > > https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/divergefs/ It's been done *twice*: https://git.sr.ht/~kvik/unionfs -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tab2715b0e6f3e0a5-M178bde9d4a69cfde4c0f2de1 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9vx
> Another interesting project would be seeing if it could be > modified to work as a 64-bit binary but still running a 32-bit environment > on the inside... https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/vx32:usenix08/#:~:text=The%20recent%2064,bit%20host%20application. This needs to happen. I'd use it. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T13921a25ae477a65-M4468dd505f1dd37b95637658 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?
> That scroll button nonsense is a function of the Windows driver. On all > Thinkpads the buttons present as a normal three-button mouse, with > left, middle, and right-click. Using a better operating system, or > failing to install the Trackpoint drivers, leads to normal > functionality. I'm aware. I meant the intended use by the people who designed it. I wouldn't call a number pad a pointing device just because it can be used as one. > I have never seen a trackpoint user accidentally type 'u', and this is > coming from someone who has used trackpoints as their primary pointing > device from the late 1990s until about six months ago. How exactly did > you come to this conclusion? I wonder if this is unique to a particular > model? I have at least one of every IBM, Lexmark, or Dolch produced > trackpoint keyboard, and I'd love to try to reproduce. It's just something that happens to some of us sometimes. https://youtu.be/zW-Kwkc13dw?t=904 -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mfeef88144c527c5f97e7177e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?
On 01/02/2022, Ben Hancock wrote: > as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find > you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical > mouse? A trackpoint isn't a real three-button mouse by Acme's standards. "A real three-button mouse" is something that supports one-to-one finger-to-button. A trackpoint is a two-button mouse with an additional scroll button. It's designed for Windows and OS/2. IBM-pattern mice (as in scrollpoint and original ThinkCentre) work for me. The side walls are slightly off from vertical, for dovetailing* into the thumb and outside finger. (Not relevant, but I've never seen it commented on.) I haven't tried anything else. Plus, trackpoint users will often accidentally type 'u', which on Plan 9 means you lose what's in your snarf buffer. For convenience, direct link to a picture of a "dovetail" joint: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Finished_dovetail.jpg/1920px-Finished_dovetail.jpg (since it seems these are named after a different animal in every single language) -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M18ed9c97f727cbf7c93d2d81 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
On 01/01/2022, vic.thac...@fastmail.fm wrote: > I am simply grateful to see Plan 9 (4th edition),... and other distributions > have an > open-source license. There is comfort knowing we can modify and create. And the older stuff, since to my knowledge it wasn't otherwise available. Space war has already been brought into 9front. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-Mcb0dc4cf136251482ef97567 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
On 29/12/2021, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir wrote: > 9front wiki has some too, for example: http://wiki.9front.org/unix2plan9 Needs chgrp for chown. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-Mbc07198f25bb4b9a140a1cd5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] dp9ik port
On 30/09/2021, vic.thac...@fastmail.fm wrote: > As it is a 9front specific question, you might consider posting to the > 9front mailing list. No, he's talking about https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tc82939f1fda0e479-M59dae010f6c9ef6b52216a94/patches-from-9front -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T21443e91804188d5-M28bc9eee91b74bebb434bee2 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] porting projects...
On 06/09/2021, Paul Lalonde wrote: > It does look like this would need raw mouse state to get the DX/Dy data > instead of absolute screen positions. You could detect when it's at the edge, make it invisible (as screenlock does), make it visible (on the box that doesn't have the mouse plugged in), and warp it to the centre so subsequent movements still give m-messages. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Td6b6b3e98268ecde-M06cc3f0752daac885bf6dad9 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] porting projects...
On 06/09/2021, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > To be clear, the discussion is about sharing a Plan 9 term's > mouse/keyboard with non-Plan 9 machines/displays. I know. See previous post. > The usual way is to layer file-servers to build up the namespace that > you need. I know. > The extended (freerange?) mouse would keep track of off-screen > movement and forward them to clients. How's it supposed use information the operating system doesn't give it. When I have said /dev/mouse and screen in this thread, I've meant #m/mouse and the actual display. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Td6b6b3e98268ecde-Md8f90f0b6e082ea14a351510 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] porting projects...
On 04/09/2021, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > it's worth doing the plan9 specific protocol anyway. > mainly bec. it could be very simple to implement, between multiple > plan9, given that /dev/mouse is already network transparent. I can't think how Plan 9 would work as a server (as in, the machine with the mouse plugged in) for this (either for Synergy or an invented-here thing). /dev/mouse doesn't emit when you're off the screen. Maybe this is even the reason cinap never did a server, only a client. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Td6b6b3e98268ecde-M0feff3e2659e016d8f423fa9 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[9fans] Drawterm GPU (was: Software philosophy)
On 22/08/2021, Eli Cohen wrote: > deep learning is another interest of mine too. hardware support is a > big deal for that... some kind of support for GPUs would be nice. > people have discussed that for years... hardware drivers are difficult > and important to do correctly! There's virtio_gpu, which I assume is less hairy and better-documented than real hardware. I think it's graphics-purpose-only. Maybe you'd be better-off just supporting cards that *only* do ML/NN acceleration? There's open-source ones. Also: > people have discussed that for years They have? I mean I might have seen occasionally someone vaguely going "some sort of GPU support would be cool to have". That isn't discussion. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tad29bfc223dc4fbe-M3cda662328b544acbd9fd894 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] OAuth2 in factotum
> No. The base system would then have two completely different ways to set font. Although looking up the font is pretty centralised (in initdraw) so who actually cares what the specific mechanism is. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T6899bf3f0654295d-Me6ad8e3db1270a4b24e18f72 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] OAuth2 in factotum
On 18/08/2021, Keith Gibbs wrote: > Hell, there are cool things I wish were 9front [unless they were snuck in], > like some of sigrid's keyboard system tweaks and theming hacks. No. The base system would then have two completely different ways to set font. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T6899bf3f0654295d-M202bed62fdeef4425950107f Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] How to setup wifi on raspberry pi 4
On 11/08/2021, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > /sys/doc/net/net.pdf Heads up: spends alot of time on STREAMS, which are not a part of Plan 9. The FQA also links to that paper with no such forewarning. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3464a8c7bad3062a-Mbdf2471ea7ae8dfd9af9c03b Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] A few more questions about sam
On 06/08/2021, o...@eigenstate.org wrote: > man 6 regexp: http://man.9front.org/6/regexp I wonder if it would be good if libregexp itself could look for a fixed string the way Plan 9 grep does: '*foo' is foo. I've found myself wanting this in Mothra. Can't remember the circumstance. It might be even more useful in other programs. Sam and Acme implement regex by themselves so it still wouldn't be universal in the system. Might create problems in mk (if anywhere), but if it works everywhere I don't see what there is to lose. Nothing that runs, say, sed from within APE is going to be attempting to start a regex with * in the first place, so that's something that need not be worried about. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3107cd3bc536dc63-M4b28d60fa00554b77085a929 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] sam label and rio snarf buffer
> Have you seen ptrap(4) in 9front? Yes, Ori mentioned it in 0intro, the Plan 9 podcast -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tc809ad6007ccd2bd-M9582240260310aa609582fc5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] sam label and rio snarf buffer
You'll need to reinvent (or change, at least) plumbing if you want multiple editors, be it one per file or one per project. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tc809ad6007ccd2bd-Mfc05d179050f78c209653739 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Plan9 on Raspberry Pi 400?
On 18/01/2021, Mack Wallace wrote: > the Caps Lock and Num Lock keys not functioning. (The caps lock acts like a > control key, num-lock does nothing - I presume it’s a mapping issue). Yeah, they're not supposed to work; see keyboard(6). I don't know the reason; either someone just didn't like lock keys, or it's autistically doing portability by supporting only the intersection of features across machine types. Caps lock is apparently a future possibility for 9front, as the PC and SGI kernels have #b/leds, and the USB driver seems to have something to do with LEDs, too, though that function isn't called by anything. On 18/01/2021, o...@eigenstate.org wrote: > fwiw, you're likely to get better results with > 9front help on 9fr...@9front.org. Why? I would imagine 9boomers subscribership is a proper superset of 9front, plus there's no cost to being subscribed. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T0178132f3d2ed689-Mff77bfb26496650e35064341 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Plan9 on Raspberry Pi 400?
Might as well note here that the USB on the CM4 is the USB-C on the 4B. A found (just now) forum thread confirms that the CM4 actually has an XHCI and just doesn't expose it at all. Nothing on this in the datasheet. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T0178132f3d2ed689-Ma74f0f27728f0fd560e1f775 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Plan9 on Raspberry Pi 400?
Try copying the .dtb *and* the start4 and fixup4. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T0178132f3d2ed689-M9f2c8a9a58f03931b399b823 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] 9Front / cwfs64x and hjfs storage
On 29/12/2020, sirjofri wrote: > ori's new filesystem What's this? and why is it needed? Hjfs already fixes the worst thing about cwfs already (needing to copy files from one partition to another on the same disk). Though speaking of new file servers, the Irssi /upgrade trick would be good to have. (Save needed state to disk, exec new version in current process, and tell it to pick up where we left off. The 'trick' is we need not close any network connections.) -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tc951a224dde6dde5-Mb12f611a58a194f4bac92d97 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Raw ethernet on 9vx
If you're using the 9front userspace you might want to throw the 9front kernel's port directory at 9vx and rebuild (I haven't tried this). Not that that has anything to do with your current problem. I wonder why it says DHCP failed instead of no success with DHCP. Can't help you with the tun/tap stuff. Maybe at that layer everything is working properly and you just need to do a manual ipconfig(8) inside 9vx. Stuart -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T84b4492f91f2abb6-M44fd4534663000107988045d Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
> Is this lightning bolt a hardware feature? Like, it overlays it on the > display, even on Plan 9? Well yes, but actually no: https://ownyourbits.com/2019/02/02/whats-wrong-with-the-raspberry-pi/ There's an OS involved. Also I ordered a 1GB compute module without thinking of this thread. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Te91377223453b8c0-Ma66e40b760afa030ea8d1e4b Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Acme fonts
a.k.a. twitalics -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T9673b88bfb3c3d3b-Mebf727ef2c439ab357e56fe2 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Plan9 and Pine
re: Ori. I understood OP to be talking about doing a new, phone-specific UI. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tca918503d5b19459-M1888d7610bfd5b2e63cb5821 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Plan9 and Pine
> then we have a hardware line capable of running it There was never any reason why whoever wanted to do phone stuff couldn't just run 9vx on those Atom phones from Lenovo. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tca918503d5b19459-M234c6ab135d2d3d7c3af12e3 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Rc port.
I take back the stuff where a directory can be a command - it interacts weird
with $path:
you’d do `..’ thinking it’s the same as `cd ..’, except it’s actually `cd
/bin/..’.
> is there a buildable version of es any longer?
I just found
http://wryun.github.io/es-shell/
I’ve never actually used es, this or any other version; this is the first I’ve
heard you
couldn’t just use the original.
Hey, does anybody know if Tom Duff really invented process substitution? ( <{} )
There’s a comment in ‘A Retrospective’ (1978, I think - it’s in the 1978 BSTJ
edition
`UNIX Time-Sharing System’; I have a tenth-anniversary reprint called ‘UNIX
System
Readings And Applications’) by Dennis Ritchie about how a syntax for non-linear
pipelines has already been proposed. /dev/fd wouldn’t have existed yet, so does
anybody know what he’s referring to here?
Whoever it was, I bet it was Doug.
-Morrow
Re: [9fans] Rc port.
> I just wanted the shell, not the whole thing You should post it to suckless. I recall a thread years ago discussing what the ‘official’ shell of the suckless project ought to be. Rc went completely unmentioned for at least about half of the thread, although they can’t possibly have been unaware of it... They either want to avoid p9p as a dependency, or else can’t live without the usual interactive features of Linux shells. Now they have no excuse. As long as we’re discussing Linux stuff in shells, I think the new shell mpsh[1] has a neat way to set prompt, neat because the mechanism can also be used to do those variables like OLDPWD that /bin/bash has built-in knowledge of. (I wonder what the security implications might be.) [1] https://www.cca.org/mpsh/docs-05.html -Morrow
Re: [9fans] Rc port.
> feature i would ove: something equiv to a PS1 line so i know what
> folder i'm in. Can I do that with $prompt?
IIRC, with es you can get persistent history, and control your prompts
with arbitrarily complex logic, all without building stuff into
/bin/es. You can do it with es code in esmain or your user profile
(Again, IIRC.)
I might have imagined that, but I'm even more sure you can set it up
so that if a first refers to a directory, then it's the same as cd
that directory. So a prompt could be
/place;
and you can click and resend the whole thing and the result is it goes
to /place for you (then does the stuff after the semicolon).
Finally, I'm most sure of all that if the above is correct then you
can also make it so that
/place {
is the prompt and it executes the actual command only if the /place is
successful. You'd have to finish off all your commands with a },
though...
-Morrow
Re: [9fans] Factotum vs SASL
> The guy in front of the console should authenticate as a normal user But you do authenticate to Plan 9 as a normal user. On one node you're the hostowner, but to the *system* you authenticate as a normal user. One guy on here lately was actually attaching to his fileserver as none. A "system" is more than one of something, computers in this case. > only be allowed to access his own environment (no direct control over hw, > etc). The hardware is part of his environment. > So, what about multiuser environments, where the guy in front of the > console is just an arbitrary user, who shouldn't be allowed to access > everything on the machine (nor disturb other users) ? Plan 9 is _decidedly_ multi-user. I don't really understand the question. Which console? Stuart
Re: [9fans] Persistent font in Acme.
The way most congruent with the system might be to have $font a 2-variable (like prompt), to have you favourite fixed- and variable-width fonts both settable in the obvious place: your profile. Completely unrelated programs could conceivably reuse this trick.
Re: [9fans] Fsctotum per user instances?
Tip: Any time someone says read auth.ps, take it to mean read nauth.pdf; auth.ps; nauth.pdf, where nauth.pdf is the slides at swtch.com In others words, read overview; details; summary. I find the auth stuff to be some of the harder stuff to fully understand, the existence of this thread corroborates that.
Re: [9fans] FAT32 question
substfs, trfs
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
So I read in New Scientist one time that being awake for more than a certain amount of hours is the same as being lightly drunk. I shouldn't be on the Internet at all really right now.
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
Sorry. What I meant was that rc's already-open file descriptors for the pipefile'd file aren't affected by the bind, so for an rc to be affected you need to run a new one. I saw this as being analogous to how it sees environment variables. I'm not interested in environment variables anyway, it's just that I was "accused" of not knowing how they work for a moment. (The reason "accused" is in quotes is that I can't think of a better word right now - Andrey is the nicest person on 9fans.) Stuart
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
On 24/02/2013, Erik Quanstrom wrote: > When do you expect environment variables to change underfoot? I wouldn't. Just because something stupid _can_ happen doesn't mean it _should_ (you can tab through form fields instead of using the mouse, but then you lose the ability to type a tab...) But I guessed someone else might make use of the possibility - rc's version of rfork knows about the environment flag to rfork() for a reason, does it not? All that environment stuff was sort of peripheral to my main question anyway; I don't care. Stuart
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
I know that about /tmp. I know devenv too. By the way, have you ever
noticed that the *env libc functions only allow accesses to env files
with names of length 100 - strlen("/env/") - sizeof '\0', while rc
allows names of up to 256 characters? I'm not too concerned about
that one, just saying it's inconsistent. Rio is hardcoded for a
maximum of 100 windows and I don't think anyone's ever had a problem.
A more realistic one is: rc doesn't go out to /env every time a
variable is accessed. If they're changed underfoot the only way rc
can see them is if you start up a new rc (like the rc under EXAMPLES
in pipefile(1))
What's the reason for this, just speed? It seems weird to me that a
Plan 9 program would do something "intelligent" like that (and
therefore less predictable, like ls's that do isatty on /fd/1).
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
On 24/02/2013, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > i think you're misunderstanding what private namespaces do, Fuck, yes. Sorry. The idea seemed so perfect in my mind, and so "obvious" that it didn't seem necessary to actually test it. > but rather than explain why nobody else can see your 'local filesystem' when > you've cpu-ed somewhere I should say I'm thinking of cases where the listener for cpu has been modified or replaced by a malicious one that knows how to do that stuff. Export its /mnt/term outside of its private namespace for other programs to see.
[9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
I'd like to dedicate this email to all the programs that don't know how to expand environment variables. See*, $path is no longer in the environment (more or less): it's a union of all the relevant executables at a known place: /bin. What's a good reason for your home to be in the environment instead of the namespace? I can see no problem with letting "me" (say) be a reserved name so that "/usr/me" can be assumed to always point to the home you want. ""'s denote literal values here by the way. I'm talking about /usr/me being a bind to /usr/stuart. You'd lose your home after certain types of rforks but then the same is true for a home in the environment. * - that's my trick for avoiding having to put a capital letter in a command- or other case sensitive token-name just because it's at the start of a sentence. That pisses me off in computer documentation so much. My other question is: what's the security implications of cpu? You get to do processes on the remote box, but then they also get to have filesystem access on yours. Does this not worry anyone? Security is really the hard thing for me to understand in Plan 9. Stuart
Re: [9fans] Good sample GUI code (window creation, management,
On 12/19/12, Dustin Fechner wrote: > Do you mean this site? > http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~rsc/plan9.html Yep, click.c was the one I was thinking of specifically. I remember reading that - I was a C virgin at the time, I "knew" C but was never really brave enough to try it before I got Plan 9. I mean, I had the K&R book, but that doesn't really prepare you for Linux/Windows/glibc/gcc's weirdness. Stuart
Re: [9fans] Good sample GUI code (window creation, management,
On 12/19/12, Luke Evans wrote: > I'm sure I could search all the sources for various examples of such > things, but does anybody know of a good (preferably concise) sample > that demonstrates the correct way to write GUI apps in Plan 9? Russ Cox had a page full of trivial graphics programs to learn from on the web. This isn't swtch.com though - I think it was some .edu website. This may be what you were thinking of. I don't know if it still exists, but the source is probably on my disembodied desktop HDD from the first time I was interested in Plan 9 (searching 9fans for my name says 2010 surprisingly; it feels longer than that). > I thought I had bumped into a short example on the web for creating > a window in C, but can't seem to find it again. Plan 9 programs don't create windows, they use the window already allocated in their namespace. This is analogous to programs not creating /fd/^(0 1 2) by themselves - they use the ones inherited through fork. cinap_lenrek wrote: >its unusual for plan9 programs to make ther own windows tho. instead, >its more common to create windows/layers inside your screen (like >sam or acme). This is someone I was just thinking about the other day (Plan 9 is on my mind lately, I just resubscribed to 9fans and am planning on getting properly into it after my January exams - creating a sources account and everything) -- does sam really do its own window management -- I mean, it's got overlapping windows and everything so that's non-trivial - or does it ask devdraw? I suppose an easy way to find out would be to run Plan 9 with nothing but sam running, open alot of sam's internal windows, and ls in /dev/draw to see how many subdirectories there are. But I'm not actually installing Plan 9 until I have the time for it. Stuart - who just learned that the last IWP9 was a one-hour train ride from him. P.S. you might be interested to know that the "theoretical model" of how Plan 9's window management works -- that rio serves a fake mouse, keyboard, and screen to each of its children -- is wrong. rio serves a fake mouse and cons, but program write directly to the "real" /dev/draw. rio gives them a file called /dev/winname which contains a pointer to whereabouts in /dev/draw they are to write to (and they can violate this convention if they so wish). You could even say winname is a type of symbol link (!) You might think that this is primarily for speed instead of virtualising a whole draw device, This is partly the reason, but also Rob Pike wanted to do some sort of graphical Acme (and never got around to it), so he put the graphics somewhere where rio and acme could both have access to them. FGB slapped a sort of graphical Acme together in a few minutes one time, but it's not the same sort of thing that Rob had in mind. Stuart - surprised how much of this he remembers.
Re: [9fans] 3-button mouse
Perfit mouse. I've never used one or anything, but it's what the thread asks for. http://www.contourdesign.com/ stuart
Re: [9fans] APE notes
On 4/13/10, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
> - se d(1) does not support single character duplication : \{m,n\}---I
Just to clarify, it's Plan9's libregexp that doesn't support {n,m} quantifiers.
stuart
Re: [9fans] recreational programming of an evening
On 3/21/10, ron minnich wrote: > What's interesting to me about this is that > I can not imagine even attempting this on any other os or windowing > system. It was just too easy on Plan 9 however. > > ron so, are you basically saying that linux is a complex operating system, and it just takes a genius to understand its complexity? stu
Re: [9fans] more little hardware
On 3/17/10, Charles Forsyth wrote: > as to hardware/software: i'm often struck at how badly hardware > designers still misunderstand how the software will want to see things, > and not just on things like the openmoko. I'm often struck at how badly software designers still misunderstand how the user will want to see things. (note: not aimed at Plan 9, which may well be my least hated GUI and my least hated command line) Anyway, re: your hardware comment: even in virtualisation, where the hardware is actually software, they still do it wrong. Three or four years ago there was a thread on kvm-devel where Ron and Eric were advocating that a PV device should be this 9P-like thing, it never turned out that way though. -stu
Re: [9fans] more little hardware
On 3/16/10, John Floren wrote:
> Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might
> have just what we needed for the 9phone.
I'm been using the same phone since 2003 - the only phone I've ever owned -
so I obviously don't care (or know) much about "smart phones". I don't even
send texts, only regular voice calls. I do receive texts.
However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful enough that
carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on battery might
actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do with Plan 9 -
setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job.
I don't know if other phones provide that feature but I've never heard
it mentioned.
Bonus feature, just because it's so trivial to do on a Plan 9 phone:
cat /dev/eia0 | awk -v 'RS=whateverNMEAuses' '
($longfield "," $latfield == "xxx,yyy"){print "off"}' > /dev/ringctl
Or more realistically, because you don't walk over the exact same spot
all the time:
'nearenough($longfield "," $latfield, "xxx,yyy"){print "toggle"}'
stu
Re: [9fans] Magic Mouse in 9vx?
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Anthony Sorace wrote: > The multi-touch stuff added to plan9ports to make the Apple Magic > Mouse work is really nice; I confess I didn't really believe Russ when he > described it as feeling natural, but it does. It's pretty easy to forget > about the mechanics of what's going on under your hand. These days, though, > I spend most of my interactive time in 9vx. Is anyone working on getting the > multi-touch stuff working in 9vx? > > Anthony Sorace > Strand 1 doing things to 9vx seems like a bad idea compared to just having a p9p server with the /mouse and /mousectl for the magic mouse, and then mounting that in your 9vx /dev. same thing applies to drawterm, inferno, and probably glendix, which together with 9vx and p9p is your entire aviary with one projectile. so you detect whether it's drawterm or 9vx, and set root = /mnt/term or '#Z' respectively and you mount $root/tmp/ns.$USER.$DISPLAY/mouse. a linux way to get $USER and $DISPLAY is cat $root/proc/self/env | tr '\0' '\n' | grep, dunno if that works in OSX but whatever. stu
Re: [9fans] Binary format
On 2/17/10, Steve Simon wrote: >> And another important feature of shared libraries is, that when >> some lib is updated, importing programs dont have to be recompiled. >> What's the Plan9 solution here ? > > We recompile the relevant executables. also, plan 9 uses filesystems for many things that other systems use dlls for. if there's a bug fixed in a 9p server, existing programs can still talk to it without a recompile. stu
