Re: [abcusers] ABC on a PDA
On 7 Jul 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: Frank == Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte By now I'm almost error free when typing notes, so I don't Atte need any of the two available palm abcs. Which is the other one? http://www.palmabc.ganderband.com http://www.biff.org.uk/dave/abc.html -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC on a PDA
On 4 Jul 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: In any case, there isn't a problem getting the abc back to the system in linux. I do my regular backup. Then, for the wordsmith doc, I run text2pdbdoc -d. The PalmABC database isn't a doc file, but I found that running strings on it produces the ABC with very little extraneous stuff. What I do with my palm and abc is just type ahead in a memo, no headers or fancy stuff, just notes. Then I import (copy/paste) from j-pilot to emacs in my default-header'ed document. By now I'm almost error free when typing notes, so I don't need any of the two available palm abcs. This works quite well, although I don't do symphonies that way... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
OT: [abcusers] Announce: new ABC manual
On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Ulf wrote: I have nearly finished a new manual: Typesetting Music with ABC, preliminary version available in PDF format from http://abcplus.sourceforge.net. Excellent work !!! Congratulations! I'll stick to the Italian version. It is extremely easy to understand. You are a most skilful teacher. You never cease to amaze me, Ulf! Exactly *how* many languages do you speak fluently? I know of four by now :-) -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: yes, and cursed be those who would wish to force us to play in Eb on guitar! I often wondered is those chords on some sheet music were put there by someone who has never played guitar! Or maybe they were put there on some one who has played so much that Eb was no longer a problem :-) Seriously: Different instruments have different problems; Bb and Eb instruments prefer flatter keys (which is the historic reason most jazz tunes are played in flat keys), guitar players prefer chords with open strings, and so on. But I would *never* use a program with a feature of automatically changing what is supposed to be a Bb-chord into a A#-chord. Since it's basically the same thing, it's just a matter of what the reader is used to, but that's not the point IMO of sheetmusic. Cause which is your target sightreader then? The guy who doesn't know anything but The Three Triads or the guy who reads and plays fluently in all keys? I'd like a piece of notation to be as correct as possible. Actually it's all about bringing across the meaning of the music, more than just which buttons to press. What's the leading note for E? A novice might say Eb, but most experienced players find that more difficult to read than D#. Of cource it's the same note, but since the experienced guy understands the inner workings of the leadingnote, then that's what should be on the page, and not so much just this button and then this button. I'm not trying to say this is the way it works in all music, and for all musicians, I'm just trying to say that *for me* the notes Eb and D# are two very different things, and that I in most of the contexts I'm busy with (tonal jazz) would say that one is right and one is wrong... Just my 0.02. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
On 22 Jun 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: laurie == laurie griffiths Laurie writes: laurie Why does transposition need to understand the mode? Currently, the abc2midi transposer only understands the key signature. So if I have a piece in D dorian, and I transpose it up 3 half notes, the transposed output is in Ab. It should be in F dorian. And even worse: most (all?) guitar-chords with a black-key root is translated into sharp rooted version: X:1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:C CCDEF | Bb7GFED | Ab7C4 | G7z4 Becomes this after abc2abc org.abc -t 2 (the A#7 should have been Bb7): X: 1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:D DDEFG | C7AGFE | A#7D4 | A7z4 although abc2abc org.abc -t 5 is ok: X: 1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:F FFGAB | Eb7cBAG | Db7F4 | C7z4 Maybe it's because my harmonies are more chromatic than my melodies, but I fell the most transposition hickups by abc2abc is in the guitar-chords... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] page layout in abcm2ps - SOLVED
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Guido Gonzato wrote: On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Atte Andre Jensen wrote: Only thing: I don't have a file ps2pdfwr at all. Could the same be achieved by calling psdpdf with -sPAPERSIZE=a4 or something like that? yes, I think so. Please let me know, so that I can include this information in the guide Typesetting Music with ABC I'm writing. It' does work, and so does the solution proposed by Christophe Declercq: gs -q -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -sPAPERSIZE=a4\ -sOUTPUTFILE=somefile.pdf somefile.ps Maybe it would be worth mentioning that GhostView doesn't really give a clue about the problem. That's why I only noticed the problem when printed or viewed on other computers. After installing Acrobat Reader the problem became much clearer, and I guess that all linux users should be encouraged to use that... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Antialiasing
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002, Phil Taylor wrote: John Chambers wrote: GIF is only used because browsers understand it. No, it's used because it's the most efficient way of compressing a black and white (or 256 colour) picture into a small file. True in low resolution files, but not in print quality. The newer PNG format is just as good, and free, but not yet as popular. Why? For exactly one reason: browsers (the big one esp) were not supporting png until recently. And since one must expect quite a few users to still be using their 4.0 or 5.0 browsers it's still not safe to use png on web pages. Sad, since png is superior to gif in all ways -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] page layout in abcm2ps - SOLVED
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, Guido Gonzato wrote: On Sat, 8 Jun 2002, Atte Andre Jensen wrote: Could someone inform me *exactly* settings will make abcm2ps fill the A4-paper as much as possible??? I was puzzled by the same problem, and I found out that abcm2ps is not to blame. The problem lies with ps2pdf, which fails to se up A4 paper correctly. My settings: abcm2ps (all versions since two years ago), AFPL Ghostscript 7.03 (Linux), and AFPL Ghostscript 7.0 (Windows). Sounds promissing! Set up the page in the abc file as you prefer. To convert the score to PDF with correct A4 paper size, you'll have to edit the file /usr/bin/ps2pdfwr and change the line that reads OPTIONS=-dSAFER to OPTIONS=-dSAFER -sPAPERSIZE=a4 Only thing: I don't have a file ps2pdfwr at all. Could the same be achieved by calling psdpdf with -sPAPERSIZE=a4 or something like that? Converting with GhostView under Windows works fine. Never tried that... I guarantee that it works... you'll find several examples of A4 sheet music on my page, http://abcplus.sourceforge.net/choral/index.html Thanks alot, hope this is the beginning of the end of my headaches... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] page layout in abcm2ps
I decided I wanted to create an efficient layout using the whole page (A4) in abcm2ps, but there are some things I just can't figure out. The fact that my printer is dead doesn't make it easier... I used to have pageheight27.94cm pagewidth 21.59cm scale 0.65 topspace 0.00cm topmargin 2.00cm botmargin 1.00cm But that left the upper 2cm and lower 4cm blank, but now changing stuff around I totally don't understand the behaviour. The software involved is abcm2ps, ps2pdf and ghostview under linux. Could someone inform me *exactly* settings will make abcm2ps fill the A4-paper as much as possible??? -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Announce: new version of Five Line Skink
On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Wil Macaulay wrote: Version 1.0a4 of Five Line Skink is available - link from http://www.geocities.com/w_macaulay/abc4mac.html I tried it out, and obviously there are quite a few things missing, but you're aware of that... In general I like the look-n-feel and the design of the gui, clean and uncluttered. I also like the fact that it runs on various platforms. I hope you will continue to develop it, and continue (opposed to what you hint at in the README) to make it freely available. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Announce: new version of Five Line Skink
On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Wil Macaulay wrote: Thanks Atte. Just out of interest, what platform are you running it on? Linux Mandrake 8.0. It worked perfectly right out of the box, although it took me some time to figure out how to install Java... As to freeware vs. shareware, I see benefits and drawbacks on both sides. No matter what, there will be a version of Skink that will be free, but there may be versions with 'advanced' features (table of contents? incipits?) that are paid for. I know I'm not writing any software, but I think it's extremely important with free software. IMHO abcm2ps is the superior abc implementation and it's open source. And Jean-Francois is even *very* actively developing it. I can live with the disabling of 'advanced' features, as long as that doesn't include stuff like saving and printing... I would prob not use anyway, I'll prob stick with abcm2ps, but some of my unsaved friends would be easier to get started it there were a mature, free gui alternative for their platform - you guessed it: windows... I was just curious about what the heck skink was, and I can only say that it looked nice, and that I hope you'll continue to develop it. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Announce: new version of Five Line Skink
On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Wil Macaulay wrote: Any interest in having Skink as a 'front end' for a command-line tool? in other words, use Skink to enter, proof read and proof-listen, and then invoke abcxxps for final output? I thought about mentioning that, but didn't dare :-) But since you ask: **yes indeed** -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: Again, I think you guys might be misunderstanding what I was complaining about. The length of a whole line can essentially be stretched out by adjusting the scaling of the PDF image before you print it. I think you are misunderstanding us :-) PDF's as such has really nothing to do with the possibilities of abc, neither the language or the program the PDF came from. The PDF is like a print, only is it not on paper, but in a file. So you can change just about as much in a PDF-file as on a piece of music printed on your printer... Nothing. I think I remember you saying a couple of posts ago (forgive me if I'm wrong) that you are yet to try coding anything in abc or trying it out for yourself (I forget the exact words, sorry again). If that's (still) true, you should really grap a program, enter som code, fiddle with the formatting parameters, and you'll see for yourself. I guarantee you that you can have just about as much space between notes as you could possibly dream of! Basically I would say that you have to be *pretty* picky to find anything to complain about in the output from a good abc-program. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: Ok, Atte. I will check that out when I get to it. So it's possible to adjust existing abc tunes without major rewrites? Yep :-) A more global way of setting up the note-to-note spacing? Basically the abc file contains no information about formatting. That's very much on purpose, and very much a very good thing... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] RE : reasons for using abc
On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Forgeot Eric wrote: - an ambiguous name (there is many thinks not related to music with abc in it, so it gives bad clues in websearch : lilypond or mup are unique and more original names (I guess)) google, with abc and notation seems to be enough: http://www.google.nl/search?q=abc+notationhl=nllr= Anyways thanks for sharing your thoughts... I also have a section on my page, only pros, though, so far... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] resons for using abc
As you prob know I'm one extremely happy abc user. Yesterday I showed a friend of mine my songbook, and he liked it, but had to ask If abc is so cool, how come I haven't heard of it? Anyways I tried to give me a couple of reasons to get into abc, but I prob missed some good ones, so please make the list complete: (no particular order...) * free * stuff like my songbook (server generated pdf's in 12 keys) are AFAIK not really possible using Finale * runs on any platform * small file size * works on my Palm (and I typed quite a few songs during public transportation) * speed? I think I'm faster in abc than I used to be in encore, but I'm not sure... Others?? -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Atte Andre Jensen wrote: As you prob know I'm one extremely happy abc user. Yesterday I showed a friend of mine my songbook, and he liked it, but had to ask If abc is so cool, how come I haven't heard of it? Anyways I tried to give me a couple of reasons to get into abc, but I prob missed some good ones, so please make the list complete: (no particular order...) * free * stuff like my songbook (server generated pdf's in 12 keys) are AFAIK not really possible using Finale * runs on any platform * small file size * works on my Palm (and I typed quite a few songs during public transportation) * speed? I think I'm faster in abc than I used to be in encore, but I'm not sure... Forgot: *formatting is seperated from the music itself -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
On 4 Jun 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: snip In ABC, I think I'm faster when I'm typing in the octave that doesn't use the capital letters, and I'm certainly faster when I don't have to enter the commas or the apostrophes. So is anyone working on an ABC application that allows this? Or better (IMHO): an interface that works the way lily works. That is the note is asumed to be the closed to the previous one. So instead of: CDEF | GABc | c2G2 | c2C2 | c2c2 | you do: Cdef | gabc | c2g2 | c2c,2 | c'2c2 | With the first C defining the exact octave you wanna start in and c, meaning go an octave down and c' is go an octave up. Since jumps over a 4th are not so common, this reduces the use of octaving indications + when you have to do it it's most often either ' or , unless you wanna jump over an 11th... Just my .02 euros :-) -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
On 4 Jun 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte So instead of: Atte CDEF | GABc | c2G2 | c2C2 | c2c2 | Atte you do: Atte Cdef | gabc | c2g2 | c2c,2 | c'2c2 | Now a data entry mechanism that took your second line and turned it into the first might be worth looking into. For instance, an emacs environment. Maybe I wasn't clear, but that was actually what I was thinking about... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Frank Nordberg wrote: Hmmm, I feel a bit bad about spoiling the party, but: Oh, just as we were padding each other so gently on the back, you naughty you :-) * stuff like my songbook (server generated pdf's in 12 keys) are AFAIK not really possible using Finale That appears not to be the case. Both Finale's and Sibelius' web formats allow for transposition. There are plenty of other *very* good reasons not to post Finale and Sibelius files on the web, though... So installing finale on an UNIX/LINUX/MS/what-have-you server is no problem? Or you want the client to have software installed, or? The *nice* thing about php is that it's not depending on a plugin or anything at all on the client side... Still possible? * runs on any platform well... Ok, let me rephrase that: runs under linux :-) -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: ---Actually I was referring to the horizontal spacing for each measure. Even in PDF format, the sheet music seems a bit cramped when you print it out. I suppose what I'm really after, then, is a formating tool with preferences I can tinker with. Well these are the preferences currently supported by abcm2ps: barsperstaff 0 botmargin 1.00cm composerfont Times-Italic 11.0 composerspace 0.20cm continueall no encoding ASCII exprabove no exprbelow no footer freegchordno flatbeams no gchordfontHelvetica 12.0 graceslursyes indent0.00cm infofont Times-Italic 11.0 infoline no infospace 0.00cm landscape no leftmargin1.78cm lineskipfac 1.10 maxshrink 0.65 measureboxno measurefirstmeasurenb -1 musiconly no musicspace0.20cm oneperpageno pageheight27.94cm pagewidth 21.59cm parskipfac0.40 partsfont Times-Roman 15.0 partsspace0.30cm printtempoyes rightmargin 1.78cm scale 0.75 squarebreve no staffsep 1.62cm staffwidth18.03cm straightflags no stretchlast no stretchstaff yes subtitlefont Times-Roman 12.0 subtitlespace 0.10cm sysstaffsep 1.20cm tempofont Times-Bold 15.0 textfont Times-Roman 12.0 textspace 0.50cm titlecaps no titlefont Times-Roman 15.0 titleleft no titlespace0.20cm topmargin 1.00cm topspace 0.80cm vocalaboveno vocalfont Times-Bold 13.0 vocalspace0.81cm withxrefs no wordsfont Times-Roman 12.0 wordsspace0.00cm writehistory no That's enough for me... --- I believe that abc2ps is what is running underneath my browser to put the sheet music up on the screen. Which site is you referring to? --- Acrobat allows you to scale a PDF file in the overall sense (height and width), but that's about all it can do with it. As far as I know, there isn't anything that allows you to edit a PDF file. Nope (I'm starting to get the feeling you maybe visited my site...). If you want to change stuff you chould grab the abc-file. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Mon, 27 May 2002, John Chambers wrote: Atte wrote: | On Sat, 25 May 2002, John Chambers wrote: | Isn't this slicing your baloney rather thin? | | I don't get it... Oh, yeah; I guess it's a somewhat obscure English metaphor. In common American speech, at least, baloney isn't just a sort of bland sausage; it is commonly used to mean things like nonsense or idle chatter or other such things which the speaker doesn't want to hear any more about. Some slicing your baloney thin is used to say that someone is making fine distinctions between things that aren't worth comparing at all. When I've heard it, it has always been spoken in a humorous voice. Sorta like saying that someone has far too much time on their hands. Thanks ;-) -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Fri, 24 May 2002, Phil Taylor wrote: What is the significance of the two different note heads? Standard... It seems that everybody is using x'ed noteheads for cymbals and hihats, so if you just write it with regular noteheads it's gonne look real funny to a drummer. If you want percussion abc to be played as well as displayed, you will have to bear in mind that there is a standard relationship between midi instruments and pitch. I don't care how my abc playes, and looking back on the descussion about ^f-|f a couple of months ago obviously abc2midi is only to be considered a toy, so I guess the rest of the comunity feels the same as me... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Fri, 24 May 2002, Jack Campin wrote: The point of ABC is to notate music, not music notation. Sorry, to interrupt, but why did you propose the i and j modifiers then? That to me would be music notation and not notating music... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Sat, 25 May 2002, Laurie (ukonline) wrote: Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wroteI don't care how my abc playes, and looking back on the descussion about ^f-|f a couple of months ago obviously abc2midi is only to be considered a toy, so I guess the rest of the comunity feels the same as me... polite cough abc2midi is not the only application that makes sound from ABC files*!* True! But as far as I know the only other app on linux is playabc, and that should be pretty much outdated... Maybe one ought to brush off ones yacc/lex skills from way back and update playabc to reflect the standard. Might even be useful for others to have the standard reflected in theese tools? It matters! Others do care. If you are playing with applications that don't play, may your eyes be sharp and your notes on pitch! You might be right... I guess all I'm saying is that since no apps are available to me, I grew to consider abc as a non-playable language. Others obviously, as you mention, run wonderful apps which makes it a different story for them. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On 25 May 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: abc2ly enables you to get both printed and played music from abc. I haven't fixed the ^F-|F problem yet, although it's on my list, but it certainly doesn't have the F F problem. Hmm. I looked at your page quite some times, and thought what you do made sense. I even ran lily (prior to knowing about your stuff) but the wildly hacking of Han-Wen, and the resulting unstability of the language made me put that on hold. How is the development now? Still crazy? When I get the time some time later this summer I'll make sure to check out abc2ly :-) -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Sat, 25 May 2002, John Chambers wrote: Isn't this slicing your baloney rather thin? I don't get it... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Fri, 24 May 2002, Jack Campin wrote: Perhaps the merging Atte wants might be a display option, the way staff merging is in abcm2ps and BarFly, but it shouldn't be forced onto kinds of music where it's completely alien. A Highland pipe band drum corps would most likely regard a piece of software that did it as totally unusable. I totally agree (to some extend :-)) but please don't force me to write 10 singe line voices and merge them when I'm writing for a drumkit!! I wanna write in fiveline systems. All I'm saying is that what *I* think is lacking in the perc notation in abc is extra noteheads + the percussion clef. *I* will never use single lines, but I believe that people who want to needs the noteheads and the clef anyways, right? -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Thu, 23 May 2002, John Walsh wrote: snip E.g., the drum clef could even use x for the note-heads and * for invisible rests...if they're needed. It won't break any existing tunes, since no-one has used the drum clef yet. Possible, but IMHO ugly... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Fri, 24 May 2002, Laurie (ukonline) wrote: Well as Muse already has diamond, cross square (oh, and the usual ellipse) for note heads, the answer is about minus three years for the formatting, GUI editing, printing, etc. How does the abc look for this in muse? For the playing - that might be a mess. Is there a *generally* *agreed* meaning for these things? or is each drummer going to want it to look and play *his* (or her) way? Yes :-( -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Fri, 24 May 2002, John Chambers wrote: This could be generalized easily within abc, by something like clef=perc lines=2. Nice! Remember that lines=0 is also a possibility! Having rhytmic accents without any line above other music. I actualli quite often miss this feature. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Tue, 21 May 2002, Atte Andre Jensen wrote: On Tue, 21 May 2002, Jack Campin wrote: It's fairly standard to have an empty rectangle instead as a clef for perc-stuff. Also if you notate a drumkit, it's nromally done in a regular five-line system with this drum-clef. I saw quite some drum-books that did it this way, and somewhere in the preface the author just defines what his pitches and symbols means. Yeah, but. That's instrument-specific to the drumkit (middling number of instruments), whereas the single-line notation works for any old drums/gongs/blocks/cymbals in any numbers from one to hundreds. Single- line has more widespread use across a variety of genres. ABC tries not to be instrument-specific unless it can't be helped. Let me get back to you on this. I'll get some examples from drummers (jazz) and percussionists (classical) at school (Royal Conservatory, The Hague), assuming you wanna get some real pro info, and not another guy' (=me) guess? Ok here you are: These two are from the april issue of modern drummer, the leading drumming magazine: http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/1.gif http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/2.gif These are from Beyond Bop Drumming by John Riley: http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/3.gif http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/4.gif http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/5.gif And the last three are from Advanced concepts by Kim Plainfield: http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/6.gif http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/7.gif http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/8.gif All are using regular five-note systems with percussion clef (the official term for the rectangular box replacing the clef). All examples rely on a key to define what notes are where, all though standards more or less include snare on c, hihats and cymbals high and low the stuff being played by the feet (bassdrumm and foot hihat). What's needed to implement this in abc is just the special noteheads + the precussion clef. I asked the guy who supplied me with this about the single line system, and he said that he couldn't think of any serious application for that. He agreed that sometimes you just wanna write really simplified percussion stuff, but that that would normally be notated as the above examples. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Tue, 21 May 2002, Jack Campin wrote: It's fairly standard to have an empty rectangle instead as a clef for perc-stuff. Also if you notate a drumkit, it's nromally done in a regular five-line system with this drum-clef. I saw quite some drum-books that did it this way, and somewhere in the preface the author just defines what his pitches and symbols means. Yeah, but. That's instrument-specific to the drumkit (middling number of instruments), whereas the single-line notation works for any old drums/gongs/blocks/cymbals in any numbers from one to hundreds. Single- line has more widespread use across a variety of genres. ABC tries not to be instrument-specific unless it can't be helped. Let me get back to you on this. I'll get some examples from drummers (jazz) and percussionists (classical) at school (Royal Conservatory, The Hague), assuming you wanna get some real pro info, and not another guy' (=me) guess? I can scan some examples, put them on my sitespace and mail the link here. How about that? How does the notation you're talking about manage to avoid stemming conflicts? - I presume it still uses stem direction to indicate hands? Again that is dependant on the author, for instance I saw simply L or R above notes... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
On Mon, 20 May 2002, Jack Campin wrote: Is there some abc software for percussion notation? Except for standard stuff like the Xs or other strange symbols for cymbals, etc. and except for rolls, I'm not sure there is anything you couldn't notate with standard ABC. Maybe there's something I'm forgetting. Which hand whacks what when. I suggested an approach to this in the keep-it-simple spirit of ABC some while ago. A lot of percussion scores use a one-line staff for each instrument, with the note stems going up for the right hand and down for the left. I suggested this could be done with a new kind of key signature (as there already is for Highland pipes), say K:P and two notes (as well as rests) u (stem-up, right) and d (stem- down, left). It's fairly standard to have an empty rectangle instead as a clef for perc-stuff. Also if you notate a drumkit, it's nromally done in a regular five-line system with this drum-clef. I saw quite some drum-books that did it this way, and somewhere in the preface the author just defines what his pitches and symbols means. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] No more spam
I just got off the mail with Toby, and the lists behavior is now changed so that only subscribers can post to the list. That should get rid of funny Russian stuff + the 10 followups from list members. Now back to the music - where were we :-) -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] No more spam
On Sun, 19 May 2002, John Chambers wrote: Atte writes: | I just got off the mail with Toby, and the lists behavior is now changed | so that only subscribers can post to the list. That should get rid of | funny Russian stuff + the 10 followups from list members. | | Now back to the music - where were we :-) First, one further suggestion: Is there a way to make it clear in the email headers what address the list sent a message to? In looking over the headers for Atte's message, I do see my own address, but only in the lines that appear to be generated by this machine's email software. This address could have been generated locally during the forwarding from one of my other addresses. I think you should get in contact with Toby for this. I abviously have no control what so ever over this, neither has anyone here. I just got so fed up with the spam that I acted, that's all. The ongoing problem with subscriber only rules is that a lot of us have more than one email address. It's fairly common for people to do something like attempt to unsubscribe (or stop mail during a trip or vacation), and find that they can't because the list software insists that they aren't subscribed. Then it's OK, what email address does this list have for me? It's often exceedingly difficult to discover this critical piece of information. I see your concern, but seems to work for almost all the list I'm in. In fact this list is the only one I can think of that allows (allowed) non-subscribers to post. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] No more spam
On 19 May 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: And I should also mention that we can have as many mailing lists as we want at the Sourceforge site, as long as they're vaguely related to a sourceforge project. Then I think we should go for that. Those lists are working pretty fine... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: AW: [abcusers] Junk mail
On Fri, 17 May 2002, Toni Schilling wrote: I think that anyone who writes to list should be intrested in getting response. So it's no problem, if only subscribers can post to the list Is that a yes-vote? -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] äÌÑ ÄÉÒÅËÔÏÒÁ ... WQKOIKFYMT
On Thu, 16 May 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: Interesting e-mail, but I don't read whatever language you sent this to me in. LOL. Could you perhaps translate it to English for me? I say it again: mean it could we change the behaviour of the list so that non-subscribers cannot post/mean it??? Toby, are you listening? -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] äÌÑ ÄÉÒÅËÔÏÒÁ... WQKOIKFYMT
On Thu, 16 May 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: Hi, I hope you are not referring to me as a non-subscriber .. I just subscribed yesterday. No, no, no, no. Please forgive me if that's how it sounded. You are most welcome here But recently we started receiving spam (like the one you replied to). And to prevent that (spam) I suggested that only people (like you and me) that's subscribed to the list can post. That's all :-) -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Action against spam, was: KAMPANYALARINIZ iCiN, MUHTESEM KAMPANYA.!!-
Here we go again... Tony?? Are you out there? Anyways seems this is leading nowhere, and since I don't know the exactly correct way of handling this Í propose the following: 1) Let's vote about what the opinion is with spam. Do you think it's a good idea that only subscribers can post here. 2) When that's done and assuming the majority votes yes, I'll Toby a mail to take the necessary actions. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Question on 'invisible' rests and chord symbols
On Tue, 14 May 2002, Phil Taylor wrote: Atte Andre Jensen wrote: Which? [other ways than abcm2ps' to merge voices...] In BarFly, you put the word merge (without the quotes) in a V: field in the header to have this voice drawn on the same staff as the previous one. You can also control the bracketing of staves using bracketon and bracketoff in the appropriate V: fields in the header. Hmmm, interresting. If one could only tryout all permutations of abc... one would gr crazy :-) -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Question on 'invisible' rests and chord symbols
On Sun, 12 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just looked at the online jazz song book (http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/songbook/) and I was curious about how one of the fields was to be interpreted. The abc file has: v:chords Am x4 GMaj x4| ... v:melody abcd defg|... You mean V: And then at some point the chords and the melody are 'combined'. Is it always assumed that a voice has chords and melody, so we should always combine them like that? Nope, this is My Brain-dead Hack in function. The answer lies in the line %%staves (chords melody) which a directive to abcm2ps (maybe others, donno) about how to combine the voices named chords and melody (meaningful, but arbitrary names, could have called them hello and goodbye), namely by drawing one system and combining what is visible from the two voices in this one system. The normal use of this is to combine two rhythmically independent melodies in one system, handy for a Bach fugue amongst other things. The reason for me to do this is because standard abc can only place a chord above a note or rest. I often have a whole-note with two chords above it so I used to do | Dm7 G7G4 |, but then the G7 would be placed at a funny, undefined place. Wil Macaulay recently brought to my (our?) attention that another elegant IMHO solution is to do | Dm7G4 G7x4 |, and I'm currently considering switching to this approach, since it would make my abc recognizable in at least some other abc software... If that's true, how does that combine with the other uses of the voice line where there is a number following then v: symbol. Well a number is just another name as far as abcm2ps is concerned. Does each voice have a 'chord' and a 'melody' part, or is 'chord' and 'melody' special voices that are treated differently. Nope, see above. I just have used consistently throughout the songbook, for several reasons: 1) My scripts (bash and php) can handle everything the same way, although they also work with standard abc. 2) I think it would *even* more messy to use is here and there, although it's really needed in all tunes. 3) I often add more chords to a song, and often found than I suddenly need The Hack then. I want to incorporate this behavior into my program because I like the convention, but I don't want to break other uses of the voice usage in the 7th symphony (which my program can parse, even though it doesn't all get displayed correctly). Well if you imitate the behavior of abcm2ps, you'll be just fine. It eats (of course) all standard abc. Regards -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] I saw your email
On Sun, 12 May 102 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello - I saw your email on a website I visited yesterday, and thought you might be interested in this. Maybe it's about time the list is set up so only subscribers can mail to the list??? -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Linux abc HOWTO
On Fri, 10 May 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09,May/02 7:56 pm, you wrote: Yes it is, but its not a full-blown HOWTO, just a web page with some hopefully useful stuff on it. I don't have the URL to hand, but there is a link to it from the abcMIDI home on sourceforge : http://abc.sourceforge.net/abMIDI/ He missed a c in abcMIDI: http://abc.sourceforge.net/abcMIDI/ Direct link to the linux/abc page: http://abc.sourceforge.net/abcMIDI/abchow.html -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse
On Thu, 2 May 2002, Phil Taylor wrote: The real problem with abc is that there isn't enough time in a lifetime. Actually when I think it over, abc's biggest problem is that it's too nice to let go... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The Girl From Ipanema
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Ulf wrote: Hi, I'm so proud of this one, I simply have to give it away, believe me: it was not easy to make... Hey, great! I did find room for improvements IMHO, though: 1) Changed the formatting arround so the 1st and 2nd ending is together on one line + try to keep 4 bars to the line 2) Changed your - for avoiding ties to *, which I personally prefer 3) Put the Portuguese title on another T: 4) There's no need to write (3:2:3 for triplets, (3 should do... 5) added || and P: to make the form clear 6) added a few *'s, abcm2ps warned that there were not enough lyrich for the melody. I have been looking for sheet music with the Portuguese lyrics to it but never found one. The particular rhythmics of this version has a particularly sexy note to it. I have to trust you on the lyrics, my portuguese is a bit... non-existing:-) Is it a transcription from record (the famous Gilberto/Getz?) or did you find a sheet? Where did you get the lyrics? I put it on my site, still need to fix a few quirks there though :-( Thanks for sharing -- l8er Atte X: 1 T:The Girl From Ipanema T:(Garota De Ipanema) C: Antonio Carlos Jobim M: 4/4 L: 1/8 Z: Ulf K: F maj P:A Fmaj7 G2 GE E2 ED | G2 GE EE DG- | G7 G2 GE EE DG- | w: Ol-ha que coi-sa mais lin-da, mais chei-a de gra- * ça é e-la me-ni- w: Mo-ça do cor-po dou-ra-do do sol de'I-pa-ne- * ma o seu ba-lan-ça- G2 GE EE DF- | Gm7 F2 FD DD CE- | Gb7 E2 EC CC B,C- | w: * na que vem e que pas-* sa num do-ce ba-lan- * ço ca-min-ho do mar w: * do é mais que'um po-e-* ma é'a coi-sa mais lin- * da que'eu já vi pas-sar [1 Fmaj7 C8 | Gb7 z8 :|[2 Fmaj7 C8 | z8 || P:B Gbmaj7 F8- | (3F2_G2_F2 (3:2:3_E2F2E2 | B7 _D3 _E-E4- | _E6 z ^G- | w: Ah, * por-que'es-tou tão so-zin-ho ** Ah, F#m7 ^G8- | (3^G2A2G2 (3^F2G2F2 | D7 E3 ^F- F4- | ^F6 z A- | w: ** por-que tu-do'é tão tri-ste * * Ah, Gm7 A8- | (3A2B2A2 (3:2:3G2A2G2 |Eb7 F3 G- G4- | G4 (3z2A2B2 | w:** a be-le-za que'ex-i-ste * * A be- Am7 (3c2C2D2 (3E2F2G2 | D7 ^G3 A3 z2 | Gm7 (3B2B,2C2 (3D2E2F2 | C7 ^F3 G3 z2 || w:le-za que não é só min-ha, que tam-bém pas-sa so-zin-ha P:A' Fmaj7 G3 E EE DG- |G2 GE- EE DG- | G7 G2 GE EE DG- | G2 GE EE DA- | w: Ah, se e-la sou-bes- * se que* quan-do'e-la pas- * sa o mundo sor-rin- * do se en-che de gra- Gm7 A2 AF FF Dc- |Gb7 c2 cE (3E2E2D2 | Fmaj7 E8- | E2 z6 |] w: * ça e fi-ca mais lin- * do por cau-sa do'a mor*
Re: abc's biggest problem (was: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-pointabuse)
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Ulf wrote: Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 15:55 schrieb Atte Andre Jensen: snipand guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like | A AmC4 | Not me, I write | C A- Cdim A- Dm7 A- G9 A- | C6 A2 z2 | Which is, by the way, also ugly... True :-) -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: abc's biggest problem (was: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse)
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Wil Macaulay wrote: if your software supports non-printing rests (BarFly, Skink) you can write | AC4 Amx | Hey, that's pretty clever! Although is looks broken (5 notes to a 4/4 bar). And I was pretty amazed the abc2midi actually played it fine (pretty hip harmonization you have there on the first beat, btw:-)) Let me think before I act, but I might just go over my tunes and switch to this hack... -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: abc's biggest problem
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Jack Campin wrote: I think abc's biggest shortcomming is the fundamental of only being able to put a chord where there is a melody-note. I consider this a major bummer, and guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like | A AmC4 | Not me, I write | C A- Cdim A- Dm7 A- G9 A- | C6 A2 z2 | Which is, by the way, also ugly... I suggested a fix for this a few years ago, which nobody took up. My idea was to have an extra kind of dummy note, which would only have time value (like a rest) but would have the effect of adding to the length of the last preceding real note. Say we used y for this - at the time, nobody had pinched it for anything else. Then Ulf's example could be written | C A Cdim y Dm7 y G9 y- | C6 A2 z2 | Nice! | C A-- Cdim A-- Dm7 A-- G9 A- | C6 A2 z2 | Very nice!!! Hope I wouldn't have to add even more of those silly *'s in the lyrics for this, though :-) I prefer the -- way as it eats less of the alphabet and seems more readable; you don't need to know previous context to tell what pitch is playing. Agree -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse
On Wed, 1 May 2002, Buddha Buck wrote: At 06:35 PM 05-01-2002 +, John Chambers you wrote: It's interesting... in response to Jeff's message, I've seen lots of people comments on his choice for the title of ABC's biggest handicap, but no comments on his proposal to fix his particular itch. I don't use dynamics at all, but I use chords alot. It's only natural that different people see different limitations since they use abc for completely different thinks, but you knew that already :-) -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] selam
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, I. Oppenheim wrote: Maybe the list can be setup such that only subscribers can send mail to me. I'm already receiving enough spam without this list. Sounds like a good idea! Since I believe there is no way to read the list without being subscribed, this couldn't affect people with sound intentions, right? -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps on a mac
On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, Jack Campin wrote: Is it possible to compile and use abcm2ps on a mac ? Assuming it's a fairly conventional workstation Unix program: Getting it to run under MPW (Apple's development environment, with a sort of shell for running software developed under Unix) might not be too hard, except that (a) MPW has a hard-to-learn user interface that seems equally bizarre whether you're used to Mac or Unix systems, and (b) it won't help if abcm2ps uses X Windows primitives extensively. Getting it to run as a native application with a standard Mac user interface would be a lot of work; Mac and Unix libraries are very different. You do realize that abcm2ps is a command-line tool, right? -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] abc2chord
Hi all I just stumbled upon a nice format (+free software) for handling lyrics with chords above. FYI it's code bacically looks like this [C]Love me tender, [D]love me... So the software makes a ps file with a C above the letter L og Love and so on. Anyway, I'd like my php-enhanced site to be able output this format, does anybody know if such a tool is already outthere? If so I don't feel like reinventing. -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] jazz-songbook in abcformat
On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Jack Campin wrote: Well, after keeping it secret for ages (copyright, you know), I might as well hit you with this one: http://home.wanadoo.nl/atte/songbook Any comments welcome, esp if anyone has an idea on how to legalize the site. Looks like good stuff from what I've been able to make of it so far. Thanks! Problems: Ok, here we go :-) (1) you've used immensely long filenames, so tar on the Mac can't extract all of them. I ended up hand-editing the tar lines and the null characters out of the archive to turn it into a single ABC file containing all the tunes. I suspect Windows users would hit similar difficulties. One solution is to use .abc filenames and then always extracting the title information (for the display around the site) from the T:. That's entirely possible, even pretty nice, only thing is that it's quite a bit slower for on-the-fly generation of my pages. Or I could provide a tarball (also looking into providing compressed formats for other platforms, although I believe most platforms can handle tarballs, or?) with short filenames. Might be a bit tricky, since you cannot trust a to-8-char truncation of my long filename will give unique filenames... Other possibilities? (2) there are some non-ASCII characters used in the chords - F8 and B0. What do these represent? o-slash (for m7b5) and superscripted-o (for dim). But they do show up in the pdf/ps outputs, right? (3) there are quite a few abcm2ps-isms which need to be edited out to get BarFly to handle the file: the multivoice syntax (no way round that, I guess) Nope. Problem is that if you have a wholenote and want two chords to the bar, there's no way for standard abc to but the chords nicely. and the !fine! exclamation-point abuse (bleurgh, no excuse there, dump it). Then I guess I should avoid repeats alltogether, since I use the !fine! to indicate where the form actually ends... Hmmm... Maybe you're right, have to think it over... I assume Muse would need something similar to BarFly. Most of the material doesn't really need to have the chords separated into a different voice, and many more programs could handle your tunes if you provided a zipped-together version. (4) there are no tempi. I've been trying to play Ask me now on the alto recorder (interesting piece, gets the fingers doing new things) but it's not on the only Monk record I've got and I can imagine it going equally well at almost any speed. What's the right one? A walking ballad round 1/4=120. I though about putting tempi i the tunes, but I hate to see it in the ps-output. Don't know if it's possible to make abcm2ps not output the tempo (?) otherwise I should just strip the Q: line before sending to abcmp2s. (5) what on earth is going on in Five? Are the chords in 4/4 with the melody in 5/4? If so there are much easier ways to write it. Do you know the tune? It's an extremely difficult tune to play since everything is 5 over 4. The bass/drums play in 4/4 throughout, but the theme is having 5 notes to the bar. In the bridge this is even taken one step further with the 5-notes-a-bar is grouped in four note groups with a chord change on every first note in the four note group. This is the way to notate it... Legalization: I can't see any way round telling the publishers of each piece what you're up to and asking *them* what they want to happen. And I'm not sure that can be done without sending some of them off on a trawl across the entire Web looking for ABC files that might be convertible into invoices. At some point that's going to happen anyway but we better be prepared for it. I guess the legalization is a pretty huge task, that I have to look into at one point if this site should stay online... Not the higest priority for me right now, though. Thanks alot for your comments, I'd look into the possibilities next week (vacation) and maybe I could mail you offlist to get comments on my changes? Regards -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] jazz-songbook in abcformat
On Fri, 26 Apr 2002, Atte Andre Jensen wrote: On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Jack Campin wrote: I assume Muse would need something similar to BarFly. Most of the material doesn't really need to have the chords separated into a different voice, and many more programs could handle your tunes if you provided a zipped-together version. How does different platforms handle tarballs anyways? (You did did find the slightly hidden (at the bottom of the songs page) tarball with all tunes in abc, right?) My idea behind using the same two voice approach to all tunes is that 1) Although a certain tune can be set within the standard, I often find mysel adding alternate chords later where I suddenly need My Hack. So might as well to it from the beginning 2) All tunes follow the same conventions which for instance means that: 3) It is more easy to extract the correct voices (using abcselect), for the different types of output. I might note that this site started as you regular a-bunch-of-100%-standard-abc-files-+-a-tarball-site, but my visitors often didn't want to know about abc or just needed a specific tune (often transposed), so I broke away. I would love to have everything as standard abc, but since that won't do what I need, I found the best (for my purpose) abc'er around which is abcm2ps, stuck to that, and used what it can do. Maybe my site is not a real abc site, but a songbook-site that can output abcm2ps type of abc. So what? My visitors need the pdf's more than the abc, so the abc is more of an internal format. Regards -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] jazz-songbook in abcformat
On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, John Chambers wrote: Atte writes: | On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Ulf wrote: | Any comments welcome, esp if anyone has an idea on how to legalize the site. | | Well, there might be a minor problem there. | | This will not go away :-) I might move it to a new secret place, | but I really need it to be online for myself. Often I'm at school, | and just before a rehersal somebody asks could we play this song. | Although it's by no means exhaustive, there are some of the more | special songs I like to play (U.M.M.G, Asiatic Raes, The touch of | your lips and Oh! look at me now for instance) that are not in a | lotta fake books. And no, a lotta super-basic-standards are not | there - yet... Yeah; that's pretty much my reasoning for starting my tune finder. It was pure personal self interest. I wanted a fast way to find things on all those abc sites that were out there, and I figured that a computer could do the search better than I could. I've often used it to find tunes fast when someone asks if I can play something for a particular gig. Do you know how to make hidden web pages? I checked, and found that home.wanadoo.nl is a unix machine running apache. On such a server, it's really easy to put things on the web so that only people who know the URL can find them. Some studies have concluded that between 40% and 50% of the web is hidden in this way, visible only to members of an inside group. If you don't know how to do it, I could explain it. Please to, but can I have a guess? 1) don't put metatags out for the search engines and 2) don't tell anybody... | Anyway, I might contribute with a song or two, I have a couple here too, might | make your collection more complete. | | Great, hit me :-) What you should do is pass the word among other jazz musicians, and get them thinking about an online fake book that's available from anywhere there's a machine with a web browser. If you can get a small group of them contributing tunes, you can have a full fake book in a short time. It sounds like a worthwhile project to me. Actually I tried that, most peoples excuse is how complex (?) abc seems to be. All these codes. And I must admit that I should really sit down and make a clear, working explanation on how to seup abc under windows. I get exhausted just thinking about it :-) -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chords
On Tue, 16 Apr 2002, Phil Headford wrote: I've written a program to strip out all guitar chords and [ABC] chords, so I can work out whether one of the harmony lines carries a detectable melody. For useful markings like Finish on A music, the program merely ignores guitar chords that begin with a space. Would anyone find this useful? It's about 325kb. I've written a similar script, although rather severe (removes all occurences of something) it'a a 37 k bash script for linux/unix and it goes like this: #!/bin/bash sed s/\[^\]*\//g $1 -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] jazz-songbook in abcformat
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Ulf wrote: Any comments welcome, esp if anyone has an idea on how to legalize the site. Well, there might be a minor problem there. You know how things went with www.lyrics.ch, a sad affair. I have grasped a vast number of lyrics from that server. Now it's gone... This will not go away :-) I might move it to a new secret place, but I really need it to be online for myself. Often I'm at school, and just before a rehersal somebody asks could we play this song. Although it's by no means exhaustive, there are some of the more special songs I like to play (U.M.M.G, Asiatic Raes, The touch of your lips and Oh! look at me now for instance) that are not in alotta fake books. And no, a lotta super-basic-standards are not there - yet... Anyway, I might contribute with a song or two, I have a couple here too, might make your collection more complete. Great, hit me :-) One thing you can do is mention on your home page that the abc files exist. Well that is mentioned, although not with capital letters. It started out as a pure abc site, but the users (that would be my friends, fellow musicians and students) mostly couldn't/wouldn't figure out how to get abc running. So finally I decided to promote the pdf-versions most. For the abc-files look at the bottom of the first page (songs). -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC
On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Luis Pablo Gasparotto wrote: Atte Andre Jensen wrote: I also proposed one, didn't catch on. I don't think the reason is the above. I think only very few people use abc for jazz. You are right but I'm one of these few people. Me too... -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: Complex Chords in ABC
On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cdim7 = C,_E,_G,__B You're absolutely right, and if you lower the whole thing you get Cbdim7 = _C,__E,__G,___B Never in practical use, right? Wrong! A very common way to go to 2nd degree in jazz is by bIIIdim so in Ab you get Cm7 Cbdim Bbm7. Anyways I guess I had no point in sharing that except elaborating over the fact that theoretical correct notation is not always very readable :-) -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC
First: thanks for a really reasonable posting! On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, John Chambers wrote: Atte writes: | | - people who can't distinguish between a single standard that allows | chords to be machine-readable, and 'you've left my pet notation out' | | I also proposed one, didn't catch on. I don't think the reason is the | above. I think only very few people use abc for jazz. This is a rather succinct description of the situation. What I'd suggest is that: 1. ABC users who play jazz and other styles that need fancy chords should discuss the subject with the idea of coming up with one machine-readable chord standard, and I'm in! 2. Musicians who don't need such chords should be casually ignored. OK :-) We might add that the case of the root and bass note letter is not significant. This is a good idea because current practice isn't at all consistent here, and it doesn't really make much difference. Note that this does eliminate the common practice of using lower case to mean minor. As elegant as that might be, we're probably better off if abc doesn't adopt it. (Just as we should officially ban the use of B to mean B flat and H to mean B. ;-) Well, well, well. I personally never use slash-chords (as they are called), simply I'm not involved in music that deals with this kinda stuff. Basically you can say that it is a shorthand for a *voicing* and as such doesn't really describe what the chord is. A couple of examples: C/D is actually Dsus7(9) without 5th, but D/C is actually D7 with the 7th in the bass I don't think it would make any sense to try to get player programs to understand slash-chords, but I don't think they should be forbidden. Band In A Box only plays a single note in the bass and the simple chord in the right hand when stuff like this happens. That's probably the best way for player programs to treat this, anyways. -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC
On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Luis Pablo Gasparotto wrote: I think the problem isn't the ABC-to-MIDI parsing because programs like abcMIDI allows you to define chords using %%MIDI chordname in the tune head. So if you like to use an m7(b5) chord like Cm7(b5) you will need to add: %%MIDI chordname m7(b5) 0 3 6 10 I think the problem is in the ABC-to-ABC stuff when transposing chords. I transpose Cm7(b5) six steps up (ninth for alto saxophone) this chord becomes in Am7(gb5). It parses b like a note and not like a flat. I'm convinced that a good point to start a CHORD STANDARIZATION is to see what are the concepts which everybody agree. I think this concepts are: Ok, I really appreciate what you are trying to do here, and I like it. But I have to comment on this C11 = C,E,G,_B,d,f That's *very* seldom used, because of the strong conflict between E and f. Although we kan keep it, we must remember that most people who actually write C11 actually mean Bb/C. At least is very unclear to write C11 in the first place. C13 = C,E,G,_B,d,f,a Well that's the next step. And *that* is wrong. C13 would imply a #11, since that is (almost) the only 11 used in dominant chords. -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Slides
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, John Chambers wrote: Dave Musgrave asks: | Hi! I'm a new ABC users (fiddle player.) Any way to annotate slides up = | to a note? I'm using Jim Vint's program. Dunno about that program, but abc2ps has used J for this ornament for some years. Are there any other programs that implement this? abcm2ps of course -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, John Chambers wrote: Luis Pablo Gasparotto writes: | I think the problem is in the ABC-to-ABC stuff when transposing chords. | I transpose Cm7(b5) six steps up (ninth for alto saxophone) this chord | becomes in Am7(gb5). It parses b like a note and not like a flat. This is probably because the most common use of such parens is to indicate an alternate chord. Say what? What happened to Cm7b5. *That's* an alternate chord for you. True you can but alternate chords between brackets but then above the other chords. Lest someone thing that it's silly to have a term for chords without a third, No that's ok :-) -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Complex Chords in ABC
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, James Allwright wrote: On Sun 03 Mar 2002 at 10:26AM -0300, Luis Pablo Gasparotto wrote: I think the problem isn't the ABC-to-MIDI parsing because programs like abcMIDI allows you to define chords using %%MIDI chordname in the tune head. So if you like to use an m7(b5) chord like Cm7(b5) you will need to add: %%MIDI chordname m7(b5) 0 3 6 10 I think the problem is in the ABC-to-ABC stuff when transposing chords. I transpose Cm7(b5) six steps up (ninth for alto saxophone) this chord becomes in Am7(gb5). It parses b like a note and not like a flat. You cannot use brackets () within a chord name because these are used to indicate an alternative chord. According to who? If you answer all my fidling friends, that's perfectly ok with me. It just means that jazz and folk chording is incompatible so we need %%chordstyle jazz and %%chordstyle folk or %%chordstyle trad -- l8er Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC-friendly keyboard for Palm handheld
On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Thomas Bending wrote: snip the VirtualKB keyboard manager, which is free (and not by me). I couldn't download it, it it just me, or is the file no longer on the server? -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ties and accidentals
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Phil Headford wrote: I can't understand why I've read so many emails on this topic. ABC quite clearly differentiates between slurs and ties (which is more than stave notation does), but some player somewhere interprets ^F-|F as (^F|=F). So? The whole thing started with me asking for support because I found abc2midi behaving like this. I think I found that support, so now I ask officially: James Allwright, will you please reconsider changing the behavior of abc2midi so that it interprets ^F-|F as ^F-|^F and not ^F|=F, since it's widely agreed here on the list that that would be the prober way of understanding this??? Regards -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] the abc standard [was: abc - the new HTML?]
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, John Chambers wrote: | snip I'm not up to | date with the work on the standard, is there still a commission | working on what to include in the standard? I really think this work is | extremely important if abc is to have any future. What seems to have happened is more or less consistent with the past work on abc. The (semi-official) standards committee started with the idea that what it needed was a clear formulation of abc version 1.6 as a standard, and has worked on codifying that. New features are to be put off until the current standard is established. Of course, this is of little relevance to people who need things not covered by version 1.6, so those of us have continued on our merry way inventing random extensions for our own use, and wondering if the standards folks will ever catch up. Ok, who's in the committee, where can one follow the progress of their work, and what do they have to say? -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] A question about converting abc2ps output ps to pdf
On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Rick Davis wrote: My question is - when I take the ps output of abc2ps and run it through ps2pdf, the resulting pdf makes the first and second ending bars into closed rectangles, the bottom part of which runs straight through the chords I have there. I don't really udnderstand the problem, could you please post (that means posta link and put the actual files on your webspace if you have some) the .abc file, the postscript file and the pdf file for us to better understand what you mean. Basically I can only say that I experienced no problems with ps2pdf'ing postscript comming out of my formatter (abcm2ps), but that can be luck :-) -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] abc2abc crashes
Hi, maybe it's not a big achievement, but I just made abc2abc (1.13) crash, by hitting it with this: X:1 T:Crash abc2abc with -t 2 M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte André Jensen K:D A#/Bz2 z2 | I don't see anything wrong in the example (do any of you?), so I think we have ourselves a bug... -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ties and midi
On 30 Jan 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: I agree that in ABC, where the assumption is that what the user enters is what a printing program should print, it's a bug. This is a case which does demand some special code. Alternatively, the standard could address the problem in such a way as to cause the bug to be in abc2ps and friends for printing the second sharp in the version with both F's sharped. Or both! What I love about abc is that you type the same as you would write on a piece of music paper. Why not have both CDE^F- | F and CDE^F- | ^F print the same way (actually as the top one) and play or midify the same (as the second one). Another way to put this is that the second ^ in ex 2 is optional. -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ties and midi
On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Phil Taylor wrote: Atte Andre Jensen wrote: But how do *you* work with midifiles then? I put in the necessary accidentals to make it play properly, even though they are redundant in the printed version. :-( It's a fairly rare occurrence. If your music is either very diatonic or very un-syncopated, then yes. But if your music is very chromatic *and* very syncopated, it's everywhere. This whole thing started with me wanting to write a bigband arrangement in abc (worked great), but then somebody asked me for the midifiles, and there were so many instances of this problem that I couldn't believe it. -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] splitting/merging of voices
Hi I've started using abc (actually abcm2ps) for writing charts for a big band. So now I need some tools to manipulate the voices individually, for instance spit a file up in the individual voices, and then some way of combining the separate voices back into one file would be nice. Does such a tool exist (I'm in linux), or do I have to invent the wheel? -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] splitting/merging of voices
On 25 Jan 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte I've started using abc (actually abcm2ps) for writing charts Atte for a big band. So now I need some tools to manipulate the Atte voices individually, for instance spit a file up in the Atte individual voices, and then some way of combining the Atte separate voices back into one file would be nice. Does such Atte a tool exist (I'm in linux), or do I have to invent the Atte wheel? Yes, use abcselect by Christoph Dalitz for the splitting. It's a perl program, so it should run on any system that has perl installed. Great, thanks, works, that was easy :-) The combining is pretty easy; I have a script that does it for specific file names, but it could be generalized fairly easily. I would love to see your script (bash?), can I convince you to send it to me? -- Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [abcusers] abc2abc error
I blush, you're right off course. Stupid me Still I don't know which sucker sneaked into my filestystem and changed that meter setting while I was sleeping ;-) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, John Atchley wrote: Try changing the M: field to 4/4 ;-) On Sunday, October 01, 2000 12:23 PM, Atte Andre Jensen [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Hi there I get funny things like "%Error bar 1 is 1/1 not in 1/4" for every bar with this tune, trying to transpose it using abc2abc file.abc -t -2 out.abc. Usually It works fine, but not in this case. Does anybody have a clue??? snip M:1/4 snip -- Atte André Jensen "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Strange abc2ps error
On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Frank Nordberg wrote: Atte Andre Jensen wrote: "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds Are you really, really sure about that ? What? Do you think MS's also evil :-) -- Atte André Jensen "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Strange abc2ps error
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Bob Smither wrote: On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Frank Nordberg wrote: :Subject: [abcusers] Strange abc2ps error :I just got this error message from abc4mac: :+++ Too many symbols; increase maxSyms, now 800 :I have some idea what it means, but how can I correct it? I had a similar problem with voices - you need to edit the abc2ps file to increase the maxSyms and then recompile. In my abc2ps the lines are: I'm using Michael's abc2ps and it lets you parse this on as parameters, maxs=800 or whatever. Sure that's not the case with your version also??? -- Atte André Jensen "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Distributing DLLs
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure I'd agree that it's off-topic. This is the "ABC users" list, i.e., it's about a specific computerized music notation. Discussing how to get software properly installed on users' machines strikes me as highly relevant to such a list. In my experience, the difficulty of installing the software and getting it to run sensibly is one of the major hurdles that prevents a lot of my friends from using ABC. Anyone else have feelings or argument pro or con such topics? Actually I'm in a situation where I have a couple of friends who are most insterested in using abc, but they don't have the geekines to setup stuff like ghostview/gvview (we're talking windows users). Since I'm runnng Linux and am seperated by one of them by about 1000 km, I'd like to find a how-to on getting abc installed and running on different platforms. Is this available, of should I write one myself??? -- Atte André Jensen "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Copyright was: [abcusers] New Orleans Jazz
So basically you're saying that I really shouldn't worry 'bout the electric chair and the like :-) I almost feel like giving in... Does anybody else here have oppions on this? Maybe someone is even able to pipe me a link from some kind of legal instance that deals with this. You might think I'm being over careful, but I had a quarel with danish KODA, the national institution that collects the fees for composers when their compositions are played, and they told me that I couldn't have mp3s of me improvising over standard tunes on my site! This went back and forth until they finally admitted that the only thing left from the original composition was the chord progression which couldn't be protected by copyright. On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Atte Andr=E9 Jensen writes: | Y'know, I've gotten a number of email messages from jazz musicians | wondering the same thing. ... | | And one of them is me! What stalled me is the issue of copyright. I would | not have an official collection of abc's on my sitespace without that in | place.=20 My experience so far says that this may not be that big a deal. Make sure that your main page has a notice to the effect that you aren't sure of the copyright status of a lot of the tunes, and anyone who knows should send you email. Also say that if a tune's rightful owner objects to it being there, you will remove it and replace it with a copyright notice. And, most important, say that an alternative is to add a copyright notice, email address and URL to the ABC headers if they prefer. snip So my advice is to put what you have online now. And send me the URL. Or post it to this list and any other relevant lists that you know of, with maybe a hint that you'd like to find others to help with the online jazz fake-book project. Which is ecactly what I had in mind! I already spoke to a couple of guys who might be interested in contributing and proofreading and the like. But the thought of a larger collaboration sure is exiting. snip I'll post the link here (among friends) as soon as I get the balls! -- Atte André Jensen "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] New Orleans Jazz
On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Derek Lane-Smith wrote: | It seems to me that abc is an ideal format for building a library of New | Orleans Jazz standards. Does anyone know of such a database? Or of one in | some other format that is accessible, and that can be converted to abc? Y'know, I've gotten a number of email messages from jazz musicians wondering the same thing. What I tell them is that I agree; jazz musicians usually like fake books, and abc is a good tool for that. With the w: lines, it's nearly ideal. I also tell them that I don't know of any abc jazz sites, this is an ideal opportunity for them to be pioneers and start one, and they should send me the URL as soon as they have a few tunes online. So far I haven't heard back from them. And one of them is me! What stalled me is the issue of copyright. I would not have an official collection of abc's on my sitespace without that in place. So how'd you like to be the pioneer? Pick a dozen or so standards, type them up, and send me the URL. I have more than a dozen that are ready, including the scripts to generate a tar-ball + .pdf-formats of the songbook in concert-key, Bb and Eb. -- Atte André Jensen "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [abcusers] Software for extracting chords
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, John Atchley wrote: snip As for notating when the guitarist should shut up, either "tacet" or a quarter-rest symbol printed on the chord line works for me. Maybe I should try that with my guitarist:) snip -- Atte André Jensen "I don't think Microsoft is evil in itself; I just think that they make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] linelength
I have some tunes where abc2ps gives me "underfull (XXXpt of XXXpt) in line X". the tunes are formattet with lineshift after each 4 bars, and admittedly doesn't have much going on in the offending lines. But my problem is that the lines are not justified to the right margin, they just stop somewhere on the middle of the page. How do I get these lines to fill the entire page width? I'm using abc2ps under Linux... -- Atte André Jensen To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
