Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
While I think the initiative to train more and more students to be independent using computers is a good one, I don't think we can completely eliminate scribes. There are multiple disabilities not just blindness and there will always be students with different abilities and skill with the use of computers. We'll also need other initiatives to improve the examination system all the way from giving some moral values to the students about what is wrong with cheating to making it harder to cheat with better invigilation, stronger penalties etc. When I took my exams as a blind student, my invigilator assumed that my scribe will basically take the exam for me and even encouraged it. Fixing this problem by training invigilators to deal with this correctly will also go a long way. -Manish -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Prashant Verma Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:59 AM To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Dependence upon scribes and misuse of scribes is indeed a real problem. At NAB Delhi we have started a project titled technology aided education of the blind to make students independent in reading and writing thereby eliminating the dependence upon scribes. Under this project, our students of class 6 and above will get personal laptops and students of class 3 to 5 will get computer training. The target is to make sure all blind studetns of classe 6 and above are able to read the computer to read books and write their exams. I hope in the years to come, our students will write their exams themselves. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of George Abraham Sent: 17 March 2015 07:42 To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Systems of examinations should change so that our dependency on other people like scribes would be reduced. For new systems to work our primary/secondary education also has to evolve to being more technology based. VIs not being tech competent cannot be a reason to not use online processes. VIs have to empower themselves. That is a challenge. In the transition period, there would be a number of people who will find the computer/online processes tough. We need to focus on empowerment. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Vamshi. G Sent: 16 March 2015 19:54 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. The problem with examinations on computers is the lack of knowledge of the same for many visually challenged. I myself was not aware of screen readers till my 25th year. On 3/16/15, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: Completely agreed On 3/15/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
The discussion has been a very fruitful one, with different opinions coming out. Now, I would like to put forward some points, which are based on my personal experience. I have seen many blind people who are capable enough to study and pass the exams with good marks, but they lack the will to do so. Hence, they rely heavily upon their writers, which is a great risk. Sometimes, they pay their writers double the amount sanctioned by the examination authority so that the writer comes fully prepared for the exam. I agree that computer exams can not be made compulsory at this time, but a better scruteny of the writer's background can help in preventing cheating to some extent. Sometimes, some people bring writers of a very high level and say that they are just twelfth pass. If a blind person is capable enough, then he/she will not cheat in the first place. And if he/she cheats, then that clearly means that he/she is totally incompetent for the exam. Acording to me, if a blind person is found cheating, then that person should be debarred from taking that examination for at least the next five years. If a sighted person is found cheating, it will be an insult only for him. Where as if a blind person is caught doing the same, the entire community gets stereotyped. Whether we accept it or not, but its the reality. On 3/20/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: Yes Sir, I think, why the people cheat in exam, because, they have loss their faith in system. and they have no hope in their life to pass exam. When they experience about bad old insidents, they try to implement in current exams. Their goal is just pass. So, for those people, counsling is must require to do them best. And, in exam system, also changes are must implement. by putting Cctv. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: What sighted does is off topic sir. we are not the representatives of sighted people's wrongdoings. lets talk about us rather than passing the buck. thank you. On 3/19/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: so, is blinds only cheat in Exam hall? not Sighted people? They also copy and cheat the Whole system. Example today Bihar state incident. So, curruption is every field. Need to control before happening. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on with little hustle and bustle to him. from the second paper, he has begun to target the woman who was writing. the invigilator found this. now what we expect him to do to that unprepared aspirant at that time? is it fair to expect the invigilator to consider the aspects of reformation because the aspirant has no options? or the invigilator should reprimand the aspirant. undoubtedly as a co-aspirant, i will opt for reprimand
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
I second your opinion sir. the system that deals with the visually impaired stands fragile. although today is late, it is better late than never to move towards the accomplaishment of smooth flow of system not only in education but in every aspect that determines personal life and liberty. for that, we must creat awareness among us, then only we can collaborate with the sighted and non-disabled society. computerization of exams alone not a fair solution, but mandating computer training from the primary schools of the visually challenged special Schools would be the best solution for the future progress where computerization of exams can be proliferated. apart from that, those who enroll themselves in a visually impaired schools must be made to learn Braille. besides computer and another person to write, Braille seems to me the most apt, independent mode of writing exams. I feel sad to see the significance of Braille going down among the youngsters like us. I always consider the visually impaired who don't know Braille as not only a person of physical Blindness but communication blindness as well. lets work for a change in the system, thank you. On 3/20/15, George Abraham geo...@eyeway.org wrote: Yes the situation is grim. We all know it. The focus therefore needs to be on bettering the situation and not on encouraging mal practice and values that do not help in the long run. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Misbah Sent: 19 March 2015 23:41 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Does anyone know what is the actual condition of persons with blindness in this country? Does anyone know how the literacy rate among the blind is? Does anyone know how many blind persons have been employed in public/private enterprises? The ratio is appalling, only 48_% blind have managed to acquire basic literacy in comparison to general ratio which is now 71%, Only 10% passed 12th, around 2 to 3% are in so called higher education. Out of million blind a handful does uses or would have ever heard of screen reader application available for them. 0.4% in public and 0.3% in private sector they are employed. Consider these actual facts and please try to sensitize your arguments in light of these facts which are even a blot on the already educated and elite segments of our community. The law for us came in 1995 and it has started implementing recently not by the government but by the judicial indictments and now because of such legal fighting if handful of blind persons have gained some respectability their competency has started recognize by the private/governmental authorities than we ourselves have started pulling the legs of our own people? I don't understand what sorts of awareness, sensitizing whistle blowing we are doing. One does not know how much competent and capable few blind students/aspirant has become that they are getting hard fighting from other blind fellow itself doo hope that this self-blaming attitude will amend its way neither it may results mutual suicide within our community. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for specifying the period in which the article has been posted. then you are right, there is no end in talking about the post. but, I think we can surely talk about the aftermath. unquestionably the article of her could have had some impacts among us on us, but the bitter truth is, she stands true in expressing what she wanted. with regard to my statement on self-proclaimed activists, you know very well and I know for sure that, it was not attributed to you. it was justa generalized insinuation to increase the severety of the indictment nothing else. I know what have you done for the betterment of us in your capacity and I wholeheartedly respect that. thank you. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Truth be said, What ever the writer has expressed in her post is the reality of not only VI but every classes of students. If you allow me to classify students and examination takers. prima facie her claims and observations rightly point at dishonest atitude of VI. If we excogitate on the reasons for dishonest means employed in exams. The writer is right but her point of view is a distorted reality which lacks the understanding of ground realities. Let me ask this, even are we in a position to discuss/debate on this issue? When basic fesility leading up to the exams, pre-exam/ learning/ access to books and study material, equal treatment for all VI etc etc issues are not sorted. I as a student of law not only just have to buy books and read but also have get it scanned and edited which is a conscientious process. Which is in addition to other concerns pertaining to disability which I need to address. I'm not justifying use of dishonest means, for them we have law and established procedure of law to deal with it. It would be against the natural justice if we not look at the issues which are incidental and ancillary to examination. We as disability activist have to redefine the principal of survival of the fittest. We need to act as a support system and have to ensure the transaction from treditional approach to modern technical approach should be smooth. A haphazard and slapdash transaction will be precursor to discontent among our felas. Arjun M On 3/20/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: I second your opinion sir. the system that deals with the visually impaired stands fragile. although today is late, it is better late than never to move towards the accomplaishment of smooth flow of system not only in education but in every aspect that determines personal life and liberty. for that, we must creat awareness among us, then only we can collaborate with the sighted and non-disabled society. computerization of exams alone not a fair solution, but mandating computer training from the primary schools of the visually challenged special Schools would be the best solution for the future progress where computerization of exams can be proliferated. apart from that, those who enroll themselves in a visually impaired schools must be made to learn Braille. besides computer and another person to write, Braille seems to me the most apt, independent mode of writing exams. I feel sad to see the significance of Braille going down among the youngsters like us. I always consider the visually impaired who don't know Braille as not only a person of physical Blindness but communication blindness as well. lets work for a change in the system, thank you. On 3/20/15, George Abraham geo...@eyeway.org wrote: Yes the situation is grim. We all know it. The focus therefore needs to be on bettering the situation and not on encouraging mal practice and values that do not help in the long run. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Misbah Sent: 19 March 2015 23:41 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Does anyone know what is the actual condition of persons with blindness in this country? Does anyone know how the literacy rate among the blind is? Does anyone know how many blind persons have been employed in public/private enterprises? The ratio is appalling, only 48_% blind have managed to acquire basic literacy in comparison to general ratio which is now 71%, Only 10% passed 12th, around 2 to 3% are in so called higher education. Out of million blind a handful does uses or would have ever heard of screen reader application available for them. 0.4% in public and 0.3% in private sector they are employed. Consider these actual facts and please try to sensitize your arguments in light of these facts which are even a blot on the already educated and elite segments of our community. The law for us came in 1995 and it has started implementing recently not by the government but by the judicial indictments and now because of such legal fighting if handful of blind persons have gained some respectability their competency has started recognize by the private/governmental authorities than we ourselves have started pulling the legs of our own people? I don't understand what sorts of awareness, sensitizing whistle blowing we are doing. One does not know how much competent and capable few blind students/aspirant has become that they are getting hard fighting from other blind fellow itself doo hope that this self-blaming attitude will amend its way neither it may results mutual suicide within our community. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for specifying the period in which the article has been posted. then you are right, there is no end in talking
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
In every community, there are good/bad persons. The Visually Impaired are no exception. Although it is better not to use unfair means during examinations, But most of us do use such means if we get opportunities. When everybody cheats if there is a scope for the same, why the visually impaired should be blamed. They have their own set of problems and they also use unfair means to get promoted. When others cheat, most of the times, it does not come out. But when the visually impaired cheat, at least their writers would surely know. This is the difference. Cheating is a general problem during examinations and everybody has different experiences to share. Let us leave it on this point that it is for the individual to decide as to what path he/she chooses in life. Let the candidate decide whether or not he would use the unfair means. Exciting Offers to Grab Vedprakash Sharma -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 11:42 AM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. The discussion has been a very fruitful one, with different opinions coming out. Now, I would like to put forward some points, which are based on my personal experience. I have seen many blind people who are capable enough to study and pass the exams with good marks, but they lack the will to do so. Hence, they rely heavily upon their writers, which is a great risk. Sometimes, they pay their writers double the amount sanctioned by the examination authority so that the writer comes fully prepared for the exam. I agree that computer exams can not be made compulsory at this time, but a better scruteny of the writer's background can help in preventing cheating to some extent. Sometimes, some people bring writers of a very high level and say that they are just twelfth pass. If a blind person is capable enough, then he/she will not cheat in the first place. And if he/she cheats, then that clearly means that he/she is totally incompetent for the exam. Acording to me, if a blind person is found cheating, then that person should be debarred from taking that examination for at least the next five years. If a sighted person is found cheating, it will be an insult only for him. Where as if a blind person is caught doing the same, the entire community gets stereotyped. Whether we accept it or not, but its the reality. On 3/20/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: Yes Sir, I think, why the people cheat in exam, because, they have loss their faith in system. and they have no hope in their life to pass exam. When they experience about bad old insidents, they try to implement in current exams. Their goal is just pass. So, for those people, counsling is must require to do them best. And, in exam system, also changes are must implement. by putting Cctv. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: What sighted does is off topic sir. we are not the representatives of sighted people's wrongdoings. lets talk about us rather than passing the buck. thank you. On 3/19/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: so, is blinds only cheat in Exam hall? not Sighted people? They also copy and cheat the Whole system. Example today Bihar state incident. So, curruption is every field. Need to control before happening. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
ah, one of the satirical question posed to me by my scribe, having plans of getting into government jobs, where you people have no work?. If we tangled into these scribe words, then we can never come up. I gave her the answer, yup, you people are there to pay taxes which in turn our salary. So work for the nation as well as uplift Indian economy. On 3/20/15, Vedprakash vedprakash.sha...@gmail.com wrote: In every community, there are good/bad persons. The Visually Impaired are no exception. Although it is better not to use unfair means during examinations, But most of us do use such means if we get opportunities. When everybody cheats if there is a scope for the same, why the visually impaired should be blamed. They have their own set of problems and they also use unfair means to get promoted. When others cheat, most of the times, it does not come out. But when the visually impaired cheat, at least their writers would surely know. This is the difference. Cheating is a general problem during examinations and everybody has different experiences to share. Let us leave it on this point that it is for the individual to decide as to what path he/she chooses in life. Let the candidate decide whether or not he would use the unfair means. Exciting Offers to Grab Vedprakash Sharma -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 11:42 AM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. The discussion has been a very fruitful one, with different opinions coming out. Now, I would like to put forward some points, which are based on my personal experience. I have seen many blind people who are capable enough to study and pass the exams with good marks, but they lack the will to do so. Hence, they rely heavily upon their writers, which is a great risk. Sometimes, they pay their writers double the amount sanctioned by the examination authority so that the writer comes fully prepared for the exam. I agree that computer exams can not be made compulsory at this time, but a better scruteny of the writer's background can help in preventing cheating to some extent. Sometimes, some people bring writers of a very high level and say that they are just twelfth pass. If a blind person is capable enough, then he/she will not cheat in the first place. And if he/she cheats, then that clearly means that he/she is totally incompetent for the exam. Acording to me, if a blind person is found cheating, then that person should be debarred from taking that examination for at least the next five years. If a sighted person is found cheating, it will be an insult only for him. Where as if a blind person is caught doing the same, the entire community gets stereotyped. Whether we accept it or not, but its the reality. On 3/20/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: Yes Sir, I think, why the people cheat in exam, because, they have loss their faith in system. and they have no hope in their life to pass exam. When they experience about bad old insidents, they try to implement in current exams. Their goal is just pass. So, for those people, counsling is must require to do them best. And, in exam system, also changes are must implement. by putting Cctv. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: What sighted does is off topic sir. we are not the representatives of sighted people's wrongdoings. lets talk about us rather than passing the buck. thank you. On 3/19/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: so, is blinds only cheat in Exam hall? not Sighted people? They also copy and cheat the Whole system. Example today Bihar state incident. So, curruption is every field. Need to control before happening. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Sorry for my previous post on this thread. I saw this thread being closed by you moderator. Sincerely apologize. On 3/21/15, Radha r.radh...@gmail.com wrote: ah, one of the satirical question posed to me by my scribe, having plans of getting into government jobs, where you people have no work?. If we tangled into these scribe words, then we can never come up. I gave her the answer, yup, you people are there to pay taxes which in turn our salary. So work for the nation as well as uplift Indian economy. On 3/20/15, Vedprakash vedprakash.sha...@gmail.com wrote: In every community, there are good/bad persons. The Visually Impaired are no exception. Although it is better not to use unfair means during examinations, But most of us do use such means if we get opportunities. When everybody cheats if there is a scope for the same, why the visually impaired should be blamed. They have their own set of problems and they also use unfair means to get promoted. When others cheat, most of the times, it does not come out. But when the visually impaired cheat, at least their writers would surely know. This is the difference. Cheating is a general problem during examinations and everybody has different experiences to share. Let us leave it on this point that it is for the individual to decide as to what path he/she chooses in life. Let the candidate decide whether or not he would use the unfair means. Exciting Offers to Grab Vedprakash Sharma -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 11:42 AM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. The discussion has been a very fruitful one, with different opinions coming out. Now, I would like to put forward some points, which are based on my personal experience. I have seen many blind people who are capable enough to study and pass the exams with good marks, but they lack the will to do so. Hence, they rely heavily upon their writers, which is a great risk. Sometimes, they pay their writers double the amount sanctioned by the examination authority so that the writer comes fully prepared for the exam. I agree that computer exams can not be made compulsory at this time, but a better scruteny of the writer's background can help in preventing cheating to some extent. Sometimes, some people bring writers of a very high level and say that they are just twelfth pass. If a blind person is capable enough, then he/she will not cheat in the first place. And if he/she cheats, then that clearly means that he/she is totally incompetent for the exam. Acording to me, if a blind person is found cheating, then that person should be debarred from taking that examination for at least the next five years. If a sighted person is found cheating, it will be an insult only for him. Where as if a blind person is caught doing the same, the entire community gets stereotyped. Whether we accept it or not, but its the reality. On 3/20/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: Yes Sir, I think, why the people cheat in exam, because, they have loss their faith in system. and they have no hope in their life to pass exam. When they experience about bad old insidents, they try to implement in current exams. Their goal is just pass. So, for those people, counsling is must require to do them best. And, in exam system, also changes are must implement. by putting Cctv. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: What sighted does is off topic sir. we are not the representatives of sighted people's wrongdoings. lets talk about us rather than passing the buck. thank you. On 3/19/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: so, is blinds only cheat in Exam hall? not Sighted people? They also copy and cheat the Whole system. Example today Bihar state incident. So, curruption is every field. Need to control before happening. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Hi. Whatever happened was justice. Whatever is happening is also justice and whatever is going to happen is also going to be justice. This is all natural law, so don't worry be happy. On 3/20/15, Arjun Malhotra malhotraarjun2...@gmail.com wrote: Truth be said, What ever the writer has expressed in her post is the reality of not only VI but every classes of students. If you allow me to classify students and examination takers. prima facie her claims and observations rightly point at dishonest atitude of VI. If we excogitate on the reasons for dishonest means employed in exams. The writer is right but her point of view is a distorted reality which lacks the understanding of ground realities. Let me ask this, even are we in a position to discuss/debate on this issue? When basic fesility leading up to the exams, pre-exam/ learning/ access to books and study material, equal treatment for all VI etc etc issues are not sorted. I as a student of law not only just have to buy books and read but also have get it scanned and edited which is a conscientious process. Which is in addition to other concerns pertaining to disability which I need to address. I'm not justifying use of dishonest means, for them we have law and established procedure of law to deal with it. It would be against the natural justice if we not look at the issues which are incidental and ancillary to examination. We as disability activist have to redefine the principal of survival of the fittest. We need to act as a support system and have to ensure the transaction from treditional approach to modern technical approach should be smooth. A haphazard and slapdash transaction will be precursor to discontent among our felas. Arjun M On 3/20/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: I second your opinion sir. the system that deals with the visually impaired stands fragile. although today is late, it is better late than never to move towards the accomplaishment of smooth flow of system not only in education but in every aspect that determines personal life and liberty. for that, we must creat awareness among us, then only we can collaborate with the sighted and non-disabled society. computerization of exams alone not a fair solution, but mandating computer training from the primary schools of the visually challenged special Schools would be the best solution for the future progress where computerization of exams can be proliferated. apart from that, those who enroll themselves in a visually impaired schools must be made to learn Braille. besides computer and another person to write, Braille seems to me the most apt, independent mode of writing exams. I feel sad to see the significance of Braille going down among the youngsters like us. I always consider the visually impaired who don't know Braille as not only a person of physical Blindness but communication blindness as well. lets work for a change in the system, thank you. On 3/20/15, George Abraham geo...@eyeway.org wrote: Yes the situation is grim. We all know it. The focus therefore needs to be on bettering the situation and not on encouraging mal practice and values that do not help in the long run. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Misbah Sent: 19 March 2015 23:41 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Does anyone know what is the actual condition of persons with blindness in this country? Does anyone know how the literacy rate among the blind is? Does anyone know how many blind persons have been employed in public/private enterprises? The ratio is appalling, only 48_% blind have managed to acquire basic literacy in comparison to general ratio which is now 71%, Only 10% passed 12th, around 2 to 3% are in so called higher education. Out of million blind a handful does uses or would have ever heard of screen reader application available for them. 0.4% in public and 0.3% in private sector they are employed. Consider these actual facts and please try to sensitize your arguments in light of these facts which are even a blot on the already educated and elite segments of our community. The law for us came in 1995 and it has started implementing recently not by the government but by the judicial indictments and now because of such legal fighting if handful of blind persons have gained some respectability their competency has started recognize by the private/governmental authorities than we ourselves have started pulling the legs of our own people? I don't understand what sorts of awareness, sensitizing whistle blowing we are doing. One does not know how much competent and capable few blind students/aspirant has become that they are getting hard fighting from other blind fellow itself doo hope
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Yes the situation is grim. We all know it. The focus therefore needs to be on bettering the situation and not on encouraging mal practice and values that do not help in the long run. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Misbah Sent: 19 March 2015 23:41 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Does anyone know what is the actual condition of persons with blindness in this country? Does anyone know how the literacy rate among the blind is? Does anyone know how many blind persons have been employed in public/private enterprises? The ratio is appalling, only 48_% blind have managed to acquire basic literacy in comparison to general ratio which is now 71%, Only 10% passed 12th, around 2 to 3% are in so called higher education. Out of million blind a handful does uses or would have ever heard of screen reader application available for them. 0.4% in public and 0.3% in private sector they are employed. Consider these actual facts and please try to sensitize your arguments in light of these facts which are even a blot on the already educated and elite segments of our community. The law for us came in 1995 and it has started implementing recently not by the government but by the judicial indictments and now because of such legal fighting if handful of blind persons have gained some respectability their competency has started recognize by the private/governmental authorities than we ourselves have started pulling the legs of our own people? I don’t understand what sorts of awareness, sensitizing whistle blowing we are doing. One does not know how much competent and capable few blind students/aspirant has become that they are getting hard fighting from other blind fellow itself doo hope that this self-blaming attitude will amend its way neither it may results mutual suicide within our community. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for specifying the period in which the article has been posted. then you are right, there is no end in talking about the post. but, I think we can surely talk about the aftermath. unquestionably the article of her could have had some impacts among us on us, but the bitter truth is, she stands true in expressing what she wanted. with regard to my statement on self-proclaimed activists, you know very well and I know for sure that, it was not attributed to you. it was justa generalized insinuation to increase the severety of the indictment nothing else. I know what have you done for the betterment of us in your capacity and I wholeheartedly respect that. thank you. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on with little hustle and bustle to him. from the second paper, he has begun to target the woman who was writing. the invigilator found this. now what we expect him to do to that unprepared aspirant at that time? is it fair to expect the invigilator to consider the aspects of reformation because the aspirant has no options? or the invigilator should reprimand the aspirant. undoubtedly as a co-aspirant, i will opt for reprimand which is what the invigilator has done. because the aspirant's intention to indulge in malpractice not only sends a wrong message to the sighted invigilator, but it hurts me, who is a fellow community member cum the prepared co-aspirant. while we expect dignified treatment, we must do community cleansing to avoid being the burden to the society. there is a long long way to achieve community cleanliness and as is the dignified, equal treatment. lets not be pseudo-libertarians, thank you. -- It doesn't matter what we have, but it really matters what we do with what we have. With Sincere Regards Balanagendran. D IAS Aspirant Skype: balanagendran Twitter: http://twitter.com/balanagendran89 Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on with little hustle and bustle to him. from the second paper, he has begun to target the woman who was writing. the invigilator found this. now what we expect him to do to that unprepared aspirant at that time? is it fair to expect the invigilator to consider the aspects of reformation because the aspirant has no options? or the invigilator should reprimand the aspirant. undoubtedly as a co-aspirant, i will opt for reprimand which is what the invigilator has done. because the aspirant's intention to indulge in malpractice not only sends a wrong message to the sighted invigilator, but it hurts me, who is a fellow community member cum the prepared co-aspirant. while we expect dignified treatment, we must do community cleansing to avoid being the burden to the society. there is a long long way to achieve community cleanliness and as is the dignified, equal treatment. lets not be pseudo-libertarians, thank you. -- It doesn't matter what we have, but it really matters what we do with what we have. With Sincere Regards Balanagendran. D IAS Aspirant Skype: balanagendran Twitter: http://twitter.com/balanagendran89 Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. -- Avinash Shahi Doctoral student at Centre for Law and Governance JNU Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Yes Sir, I think, why the people cheat in exam, because, they have loss their faith in system. and they have no hope in their life to pass exam. When they experience about bad old insidents, they try to implement in current exams. Their goal is just pass. So, for those people, counsling is must require to do them best. And, in exam system, also changes are must implement. by putting Cctv. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: What sighted does is off topic sir. we are not the representatives of sighted people's wrongdoings. lets talk about us rather than passing the buck. thank you. On 3/19/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: so, is blinds only cheat in Exam hall? not Sighted people? They also copy and cheat the Whole system. Example today Bihar state incident. So, curruption is every field. Need to control before happening. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on with little hustle and bustle to him. from the second paper, he has begun to target the woman who was writing. the invigilator found this. now what we expect him to do to that unprepared aspirant at that time? is it fair to expect the invigilator to consider the aspects of reformation because the aspirant has no options? or the invigilator should reprimand the aspirant. undoubtedly as a co-aspirant, i will opt for reprimand which is what the invigilator has done. because the aspirant's intention to indulge in malpractice not only sends a wrong message to the sighted invigilator, but it hurts me, who is a fellow community member cum the prepared co-aspirant. while we expect dignified treatment, we must do community cleansing to avoid being the burden to the society. there is a long long way to achieve community cleanliness and as is the dignified, equal treatment. lets not be pseudo-libertarians, thank you. -- It doesn't matter what we have, but it really matters what we do with what we have. With Sincere Regards Balanagendran. D IAS Aspirant Skype: balanagendran Twitter: http://twitter.com/balanagendran89 Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Does anyone know the exact statistics of the population of the blind in India? look at it, there is a greater conflict of result between the civil society organisations and the world health organization. it would be greatful if you can share the source from which your data presentation has been extracted. besides all, kindly enlighten me on what were you trying to say. thank you. On 3/19/15, Misbah jnu.mis...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know what is the actual condition of persons with blindness in this country? Does anyone know how the literacy rate among the blind is? Does anyone know how many blind persons have been employed in public/private enterprises? The ratio is appalling, only 48_% blind have managed to acquire basic literacy in comparison to general ratio which is now 71%, Only 10% passed 12th, around 2 to 3% are in so called higher education. Out of million blind a handful does uses or would have ever heard of screen reader application available for them. 0.4% in public and 0.3% in private sector they are employed. Consider these actual facts and please try to sensitize your arguments in light of these facts which are even a blot on the already educated and elite segments of our community. The law for us came in 1995 and it has started implementing recently not by the government but by the judicial indictments and now because of such legal fighting if handful of blind persons have gained some respectability their competency has started recognize by the private/governmental authorities than we ourselves have started pulling the legs of our own people? I don't understand what sorts of awareness, sensitizing whistle blowing we are doing. One does not know how much competent and capable few blind students/aspirant has become that they are getting hard fighting from other blind fellow itself doo hope that this self-blaming attitude will amend its way neither it may results mutual suicide within our community. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for specifying the period in which the article has been posted. then you are right, there is no end in talking about the post. but, I think we can surely talk about the aftermath. unquestionably the article of her could have had some impacts among us on us, but the bitter truth is, she stands true in expressing what she wanted. with regard to my statement on self-proclaimed activists, you know very well and I know for sure that, it was not attributed to you. it was justa generalized insinuation to increase the severety of the indictment nothing else. I know what have you done for the betterment of us in your capacity and I wholeheartedly respect that. thank you. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
What sighted does is off topic sir. we are not the representatives of sighted people's wrongdoings. lets talk about us rather than passing the buck. thank you. On 3/19/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: so, is blinds only cheat in Exam hall? not Sighted people? They also copy and cheat the Whole system. Example today Bihar state incident. So, curruption is every field. Need to control before happening. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on with little hustle and bustle to him. from the second paper, he has begun to target the woman who was writing. the invigilator found this. now what we expect him to do to that unprepared aspirant at that time? is it fair to expect the invigilator to consider the aspects of reformation because the aspirant has no options? or the invigilator should reprimand the aspirant. undoubtedly as a co-aspirant, i will opt for reprimand which is what the invigilator has done. because the aspirant's intention to indulge in malpractice not only sends a wrong message to the sighted invigilator, but it hurts me, who is a fellow community member cum the prepared co-aspirant. while we expect dignified treatment, we must do community cleansing to avoid being the burden to the society. there is a long long way to achieve community cleanliness and as is the dignified, equal treatment. lets not be pseudo-libertarians, thank you. -- It doesn't matter what we have, but it really matters what we do with what we have. With Sincere Regards Balanagendran. D IAS Aspirant Skype: balanagendran Twitter: http://twitter.com/balanagendran89 Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. -- Avinash Shahi Doctoral student at Centre for Law and Governance JNU Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Thanks for specifying the period in which the article has been posted. then you are right, there is no end in talking about the post. but, I think we can surely talk about the aftermath. unquestionably the article of her could have had some impacts among us on us, but the bitter truth is, she stands true in expressing what she wanted. with regard to my statement on self-proclaimed activists, you know very well and I know for sure that, it was not attributed to you. it was justa generalized insinuation to increase the severety of the indictment nothing else. I know what have you done for the betterment of us in your capacity and I wholeheartedly respect that. thank you. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on with little hustle and bustle to him. from the second paper, he has begun to target the woman who was writing. the invigilator found this. now what we expect him to do to that unprepared aspirant at that time? is it fair to expect the invigilator to consider the aspects of reformation because the aspirant has no options? or the invigilator should reprimand the aspirant. undoubtedly as a co-aspirant, i will opt for reprimand which is what the invigilator has done. because the aspirant's intention to indulge in malpractice not only sends a wrong message to the sighted invigilator, but it hurts me, who is a fellow community member cum the prepared co-aspirant. while we expect dignified treatment, we must do community cleansing to avoid being the burden to the society. there is a long long way to achieve community cleanliness and as is the dignified, equal treatment. lets not be pseudo-libertarians, thank you. -- It doesn't matter what we have, but it really matters what we do with what we have. With Sincere Regards Balanagendran. D IAS Aspirant Skype: balanagendran Twitter: http://twitter.com/balanagendran89 Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. -- Avinash Shahi Doctoral student
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Does anyone know what is the actual condition of persons with blindness in this country? Does anyone know how the literacy rate among the blind is? Does anyone know how many blind persons have been employed in public/private enterprises? The ratio is appalling, only 48_% blind have managed to acquire basic literacy in comparison to general ratio which is now 71%, Only 10% passed 12th, around 2 to 3% are in so called higher education. Out of million blind a handful does uses or would have ever heard of screen reader application available for them. 0.4% in public and 0.3% in private sector they are employed. Consider these actual facts and please try to sensitize your arguments in light of these facts which are even a blot on the already educated and elite segments of our community. The law for us came in 1995 and it has started implementing recently not by the government but by the judicial indictments and now because of such legal fighting if handful of blind persons have gained some respectability their competency has started recognize by the private/governmental authorities than we ourselves have started pulling the legs of our own people? I don’t understand what sorts of awareness, sensitizing whistle blowing we are doing. One does not know how much competent and capable few blind students/aspirant has become that they are getting hard fighting from other blind fellow itself doo hope that this self-blaming attitude will amend its way neither it may results mutual suicide within our community. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for specifying the period in which the article has been posted. then you are right, there is no end in talking about the post. but, I think we can surely talk about the aftermath. unquestionably the article of her could have had some impacts among us on us, but the bitter truth is, she stands true in expressing what she wanted. with regard to my statement on self-proclaimed activists, you know very well and I know for sure that, it was not attributed to you. it was justa generalized insinuation to increase the severety of the indictment nothing else. I know what have you done for the betterment of us in your capacity and I wholeheartedly respect that. thank you. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on with little hustle and bustle to him. from the second paper, he has begun to target the woman who was writing. the invigilator found this. now what we expect him to do to that unprepared aspirant at that time? is it fair to expect the invigilator to consider the aspects of reformation because the aspirant has no options? or the invigilator should reprimand the aspirant. undoubtedly as a co-aspirant, i will opt for reprimand which is what the
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
so, is blinds only cheat in Exam hall? not Sighted people? They also copy and cheat the Whole system. Example today Bihar state incident. So, curruption is every field. Need to control before happening. On 3/19/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: If we continue to debate this 2011 post appeared on youth ki avaz it has no end. Once this write up under discussion became public in the virtual world, it somehow bolstered the already rampant notion that sigeable number of blind people are nitwit. the argument about she sharing her experience on public platform is well-taken, however the ramification of piece on blind people is equally important to be discussed. I never claim in an absolute term that I'm an activist at all one could check the archive... It was just an effort as researcher to underline the salient features of her argument. One could differ in entirety. On 3/19/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that there is a greater gorge flowing between our understanding of the post. first and foremost, the writer described 2 of her own experience not to demean the visually impaired but to propagate the significance of equal opportunities. while we are ready to accept the appreciation from the outer world (non-disabled), we must also be ready to intra-community cleansing. undoubtedly the so-called whistleblowers of the visually impaired deserves salute because they are the one who stands empathetic while the so-called self-proclaimed activists and the driving force of the future of the visually impaired stand sympathetic in addressing the basic drawbacks. I respect the argument on negative inhibition of the teachers on the visually impaired though i personally disagree. we get what we give. its up to the visually impaired to break his or her back to dump the false notion that prevails among the majority. its difficult, but not impossible. its absolutely good to defend the malpractice of the visually impaired under the circumstantial blockades, but such defense proves that all the visually impaired are left with no options but to malpractice. moreover, such notion would contaminate the sincere visually impaired candidate who believes in him or herself in the upliftment of the standard of living instead of opting for shortcuts by citing the blockades. for example, during my mains exam this year, one visually impaired candidate has come from Bangalore. first paper whent on with little hustle and bustle to him. from the second paper, he has begun to target the woman who was writing. the invigilator found this. now what we expect him to do to that unprepared aspirant at that time? is it fair to expect the invigilator to consider the aspects of reformation because the aspirant has no options? or the invigilator should reprimand the aspirant. undoubtedly as a co-aspirant, i will opt for reprimand which is what the invigilator has done. because the aspirant's intention to indulge in malpractice not only sends a wrong message to the sighted invigilator, but it hurts me, who is a fellow community member cum the prepared co-aspirant. while we expect dignified treatment, we must do community cleansing to avoid being the burden to the society. there is a long long way to achieve community cleanliness and as is the dignified, equal treatment. lets not be pseudo-libertarians, thank you. -- It doesn't matter what we have, but it really matters what we do with what we have. With Sincere Regards Balanagendran. D IAS Aspirant Skype: balanagendran Twitter: http://twitter.com/balanagendran89 Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. -- Avinash Shahi Doctoral student at Centre for Law and Governance JNU Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Thoughts George has expressed are true and we need to accept realities rather than criticizing messenger. As each of us is aware of rights, duty not to abuse the system has to be shouldered being so-called computer literate group. Thanks Kailas On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 10:30:05 +0530 George Abraham wrote I do not think the writer means any offence neither do I think she is trying to demean blind and visually impaired people. The very fact that she is volunteering or investing her time in being a scribe implies that she believes in the blind and visually impaired people. What she has written is not fiction. This has been happening and not just one or two stray instance but quite commonly. Let us not get into the ostritch syndrome and stick our heads in the sand. She in her piece is simply pointing our attention to certain ground realities. I think we need to take on board these realities as we move forward with planning our systems and policies. I also agree to the fact that the abuse of systems and facilities by some of the blind people brings a bad reputation to the entire group. Further this has negative impact on the understanding and attitude of people towards blind people. Our approach should be to address the abuse rather than being critical of the messenger. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of avinash shahi Sent: 17 March 2015 16:23 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. This writer seems to me is obsessed with illusive competence Though I defend her right to express what she experienced, however she has unwillingly hurt the sentiments of millions of blind who lack means to learn computers. in her words, She may have done 'philanthropy' by writing somebody's exam, but her herling of bombshell on examinees such as 'cajole' and 'emotional-blackmaling' is very disturbing. She has also negated the importance of reservation for PWDs which is against the constitutional principle of treating equal equally and unequal unequally. She should know that questionpapers are supposed to be provided in Braille to blind people if they desire, but do government ensure? She should reflect on questions why blind people are compelled to give exams in print? why not in their own desired mode? She should read Miranda Tomkonson judgment and MSJE Scribe guidelines which forced UGC to provide NET questionpapers in Braille. On 3/16/15, bala9119 wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
O my god, this issue can bring to mind many problems that we have faced while appearing for our exams. Though many of us would have faced many problems during our exams, but no one discussed that a scribe would be emotionally pressured to help as well. Apart from scribes, some supervisors also want to help you. All of this indicates that people have low faith in the abilities of persons with disabilities and if you ask me, taking help this way during the exam is an insult to oneself. I agree with George. We all know that many people try to seek help from scribe, and Such incidences lead to weird rules such as scribe should not have scored more than 50 percent marks, or the scribe should not be from the same field. These rules hurt other candidates, as someone from non-science or mathematics field is often not able to explain the content in a meaningful way. Once I had to appear for a masters level entrance exam, and the person who was assigned as my scribe was 12th pass and he could not speak in English,(I had to ask him to spell words) and he did not understand importance of diagrams, so he just read out questions without letting me know that there are diagrams associated with those questions. After 2 to 3 questions, I realized that these questions are not making any sense unless there is a diagram. And then there are other problems related to Greek and other exotic symbols. Scenario is way better in international exams, and we can learn from them. I have appeared for 3 international exams. In all of the international exams that I appeared, they monitored with the help of CCTV so that there is no help from the scribe. But they do not impose such conditions such as maximum marks and area of specialization. Once I enquired about the qualification of the scribe, the guy told me that you can get who so ever you want, I will ensure you don't cheat. In other tests the condition was that the scribe should not have appeared for and should not be planning to appear for the same test within one year. But that condition is to ensure that the scribe does not benefit by being a scribe. So what is the answer for this problem? Unfortunately, everyone cannot appear for exams with the help of computer and many exams cannot be taken with the help of computer. Same is the case with Braille. Until we can solve that problem, better supervision is the answer. Apart from supervision, scribe and supervisor should be asked to sign an oath that they will not help the candidate and helping the candidate in this way would mean the candidate is incompetent. the candidate should also sign the same oath. If all of them sign the same oath, they would most likely not do the wrong thing. Regards Dinesh Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Totally agree. I have seen situation in some schools where students give out text books to scribes in advance for them to prepare. Whether it's computer based or using scribe, students should be well prepared. And in some cases, I have also seen lack of quality teaching in schools. I cannot disclose something here but I'm really proud of students like Kartik!! Thanks much. Regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula | @csrinivasu Sent from my iPhone 5C On 18-Mar-2015, at 15:52, Dinesh Kaushal dineshkaus...@hotmail.com wrote: O my god, this issue can bring to mind many problems that we have faced while appearing for our exams. Though many of us would have faced many problems during our exams, but no one discussed that a scribe would be emotionally pressured to help as well. Apart from scribes, some supervisors also want to help you. All of this indicates that people have low faith in the abilities of persons with disabilities and if you ask me, taking help this way during the exam is an insult to oneself. I agree with George. We all know that many people try to seek help from scribe, and Such incidences lead to weird rules such as scribe should not have scored more than 50 percent marks, or the scribe should not be from the same field. These rules hurt other candidates, as someone from non-science or mathematics field is often not able to explain the content in a meaningful way. Once I had to appear for a masters level entrance exam, and the person who was assigned as my scribe was 12th pass and he could not speak in English,(I had to ask him to spell words) and he did not understand importance of diagrams, so he just read out questions without letting me know that there are diagrams associated with those questions. After 2 to 3 questions, I realized that these questions are not making any sense unless there is a diagram. And then there are other problems related to Greek and other exotic symbols. Scenario is way better in international exams, and we can learn from them. I have appeared for 3 international exams. In all of the international exams that I appeared, they monitored with the help of CCTV so that there is no help from the scribe. But they do not impose such conditions such as maximum marks and area of specialization. Once I enquired about the qualification of the scribe, the guy told me that you can get who so ever you want, I will ensure you don't cheat. In other tests the condition was that the scribe should not have appeared for and should not be planning to appear for the same test within one year. But that condition is to ensure that the scribe does not benefit by being a scribe. So what is the answer for this problem? Unfortunately, everyone cannot appear for exams with the help of computer and many exams cannot be taken with the help of computer. Same is the case with Braille. Until we can solve that problem, better supervision is the answer. Apart from supervision, scribe and supervisor should be asked to sign an oath that they will not help the candidate and helping the candidate in this way would mean the candidate is incompetent. the candidate should also sign the same oath. If all of them sign the same oath, they would most likely not do the wrong thing. Regards Dinesh Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Hi, Danish Sir, The YouTube link of the Badalta Daur pertaining to scribe and examination related issues has broken midway. Please repost the full link. Thanks. P.S. I've missed the episode as well, and would be keen to listen to it as well. On 3/18/15, akshun mahajan akshunmahajan...@gmail.com wrote: completely agreed with George sir, akansha has expressed absolute truth. We should not ggeneralize everything and if a sighted person is expressing anything contradictory about community we should welcome as well. here is my discussion on scribe, hope it will help to understand all things in this regard, https://www.youtube.comy On 3/18/15, Bhavya shah bhavya.shah...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Adequate supervision certainly would allow for fair usage of scribes. However, what is the feasibility of implementing a rule that allows visually impaired students to give their exams using their preferred means, namely - * Scribe * Computer * Braille Those who can, would then be allowed to use computers, and those who can't always have the other two alternative means available. Recently, while talking to a school teacher, she expressed her dissatisfactory experience with finding scribes (for other differently-abled such as learning disabled, but not blind) for students' in the Board exams. During the conversation, she also was saying that the CBSE Board head Vineet Joshi was going to retire and a new head or something like that would come up. Will the arrival of the new CBSE Board head have any consequences or implications affecting the rules and guidelines for visually impaired students writing exams? Just asking out of curiosity. Thanks. On 3/18/15, SKYLINER dn...@rediffmail.com wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:47:26 +0530 li...@srinivasu.org wrote Totally agree. I have seen situation in some schools where students give out text books to scribes in advance for them to prepare. Whether it's computer based or using scribe, students should be well prepared. And in some cases, I have also seen lack of quality teaching in schools. I cannot disclose something here but I'm really proud of students like Kartik!! Thanks much. Regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula | @csrinivasu Sent from my iPhone 5C On 18-Mar-2015, at 15:52, Dinesh Kaushal wrote: O my god, this issue can bring to mind many problems that we have faced while appearing for our exams. Though many of us would have faced many problems during our exams, but no one discussed that a scribe would be emotionally pressured to help as well. Apart from scribes, some supervisors also want to help you. All of this indicates that people have low faith in the abilities of persons with disabilities and if you ask me, taking help this way during the exam is an insult to oneself. I agree with George. We all know that many people try to seek help from scribe, and Such incidences lead to weird rules such as scribe should not have scored more than 50 percent marks, or the scribe should not be from the same field. These rules hurt other candidates, as someone from non-science or mathematics field is often not able to explain the content in a meaningful way. Once I had to appear for a masters level entrance exam, and the person who was assigned as my scribe was 12th pass and he could not speak in English,(I had to ask him to spell words) and he did not understand importance of diagrams, so he just read out questions without letting me know that there are diagrams associated with those questions. After 2 to 3 questions, I realized that these questions are not making any sense unless there is a diagram. And then there are other problems related to Greek and other exotic symbols. Scenario is way better in international exams, and we can learn from them. I have appeared for 3 international exams. In all of the international exams that I appeared, they monitored with the help of CCTV so that there is no help from the scribe. But they do not impose such conditions such as maximum marks and area of specialization. Once I enquired about the qualification of the scribe, the guy told me that you can get who so ever you want, I will ensure you don't cheat. In other tests the condition was that the scribe should not have appeared for and should not be planning to appear for the same test within one year. But that condition is to ensure that the scribe does not benefit by being a scribe. So what is the answer for this problem? Unfortunately, everyone cannot appear for exams with the help of computer and many exams cannot be taken with the help of computer. Same is the case with Braille. Until we can solve that problem, better supervision is the answer. Apart from supervision, scribe and supervisor should be
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:47:26 +0530 li...@srinivasu.org wrote Totally agree. I have seen situation in some schools where students give out text books to scribes in advance for them to prepare. Whether it's computer based or using scribe, students should be well prepared. And in some cases, I have also seen lack of quality teaching in schools. I cannot disclose something here but I'm really proud of students like Kartik!! Thanks much. Regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula | @csrinivasu Sent from my iPhone 5C On 18-Mar-2015, at 15:52, Dinesh Kaushal wrote: O my god, this issue can bring to mind many problems that we have faced while appearing for our exams. Though many of us would have faced many problems during our exams, but no one discussed that a scribe would be emotionally pressured to help as well. Apart from scribes, some supervisors also want to help you. All of this indicates that people have low faith in the abilities of persons with disabilities and if you ask me, taking help this way during the exam is an insult to oneself. I agree with George. We all know that many people try to seek help from scribe, and Such incidences lead to weird rules such as scribe should not have scored more than 50 percent marks, or the scribe should not be from the same field. These rules hurt other candidates, as someone from non-science or mathematics field is often not able to explain the content in a meaningful way. Once I had to appear for a masters level entrance exam, and the person who was assigned as my scribe was 12th pass and he could not speak in English,(I had to ask him to spell words) and he did not understand importance of diagrams, so he just read out questions without letting me know that there are diagrams associated with those questions. After 2 to 3 questions, I realized that these questions are not making any sense unless there is a diagram. And then there are other problems related to Greek and other exotic symbols. Scenario is way better in international exams, and we can learn from them. I have appeared for 3 international exams. In all of the international exams that I appeared, they monitored with the help of CCTV so that there is no help from the scribe. But they do not impose such conditions such as maximum marks and area of specialization. Once I enquired about the qualification of the scribe, the guy told me that you can get who so ever you want, I will ensure you don't cheat. In other tests the condition was that the scribe should not have appeared for and should not be planning to appear for the same test within one year. But that condition is to ensure that the scribe does not benefit by being a scribe. So what is the answer for this problem? Unfortunately, everyone cannot appear for exams with the help of computer and many exams cannot be taken with the help of computer. Same is the case with Braille. Until we can solve that problem, better supervision is the answer. Apart from supervision, scribe and supervisor should be asked to sign an oath that they will not help the candidate and helping the candidate in this way would mean the candidate is incompetent. the candidate should also sign the same oath. If all of them sign the same oath, they would most likely not do the wrong thing. Regards Dinesh Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Hi, Adequate supervision certainly would allow for fair usage of scribes. However, what is the feasibility of implementing a rule that allows visually impaired students to give their exams using their preferred means, namely - * Scribe * Computer * Braille Those who can, would then be allowed to use computers, and those who can't always have the other two alternative means available. Recently, while talking to a school teacher, she expressed her dissatisfactory experience with finding scribes (for other differently-abled such as learning disabled, but not blind) for students' in the Board exams. During the conversation, she also was saying that the CBSE Board head Vineet Joshi was going to retire and a new head or something like that would come up. Will the arrival of the new CBSE Board head have any consequences or implications affecting the rules and guidelines for visually impaired students writing exams? Just asking out of curiosity. Thanks. On 3/18/15, SKYLINER dn...@rediffmail.com wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:47:26 +0530 li...@srinivasu.org wrote Totally agree. I have seen situation in some schools where students give out text books to scribes in advance for them to prepare. Whether it's computer based or using scribe, students should be well prepared. And in some cases, I have also seen lack of quality teaching in schools. I cannot disclose something here but I'm really proud of students like Kartik!! Thanks much. Regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula | @csrinivasu Sent from my iPhone 5C On 18-Mar-2015, at 15:52, Dinesh Kaushal wrote: O my god, this issue can bring to mind many problems that we have faced while appearing for our exams. Though many of us would have faced many problems during our exams, but no one discussed that a scribe would be emotionally pressured to help as well. Apart from scribes, some supervisors also want to help you. All of this indicates that people have low faith in the abilities of persons with disabilities and if you ask me, taking help this way during the exam is an insult to oneself. I agree with George. We all know that many people try to seek help from scribe, and Such incidences lead to weird rules such as scribe should not have scored more than 50 percent marks, or the scribe should not be from the same field. These rules hurt other candidates, as someone from non-science or mathematics field is often not able to explain the content in a meaningful way. Once I had to appear for a masters level entrance exam, and the person who was assigned as my scribe was 12th pass and he could not speak in English,(I had to ask him to spell words) and he did not understand importance of diagrams, so he just read out questions without letting me know that there are diagrams associated with those questions. After 2 to 3 questions, I realized that these questions are not making any sense unless there is a diagram. And then there are other problems related to Greek and other exotic symbols. Scenario is way better in international exams, and we can learn from them. I have appeared for 3 international exams. In all of the international exams that I appeared, they monitored with the help of CCTV so that there is no help from the scribe. But they do not impose such conditions such as maximum marks and area of specialization. Once I enquired about the qualification of the scribe, the guy told me that you can get who so ever you want, I will ensure you don't cheat. In other tests the condition was that the scribe should not have appeared for and should not be planning to appear for the same test within one year. But that condition is to ensure that the scribe does not benefit by being a scribe. So what is the answer for this problem? Unfortunately, everyone cannot appear for exams with the help of computer and many exams cannot be taken with the help of computer. Same is the case with Braille. Until we can solve that problem, better supervision is the answer. Apart from supervision, scribe and supervisor should be asked to sign an oath that they will not help the candidate and helping the candidate in this way would mean the candidate is incompetent. the candidate should also sign the same oath. If all of them sign the same oath, they would most likely not do the wrong thing. Regards Dinesh Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
completely agreed with George sir, akansha has expressed absolute truth. We should not ggeneralize everything and if a sighted person is expressing anything contradictory about community we should welcome as well. here is my discussion on scribe, hope it will help to understand all things in this regard, https://www.youtube.comy On 3/18/15, Bhavya shah bhavya.shah...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Adequate supervision certainly would allow for fair usage of scribes. However, what is the feasibility of implementing a rule that allows visually impaired students to give their exams using their preferred means, namely - * Scribe * Computer * Braille Those who can, would then be allowed to use computers, and those who can't always have the other two alternative means available. Recently, while talking to a school teacher, she expressed her dissatisfactory experience with finding scribes (for other differently-abled such as learning disabled, but not blind) for students' in the Board exams. During the conversation, she also was saying that the CBSE Board head Vineet Joshi was going to retire and a new head or something like that would come up. Will the arrival of the new CBSE Board head have any consequences or implications affecting the rules and guidelines for visually impaired students writing exams? Just asking out of curiosity. Thanks. On 3/18/15, SKYLINER dn...@rediffmail.com wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:47:26 +0530 li...@srinivasu.org wrote Totally agree. I have seen situation in some schools where students give out text books to scribes in advance for them to prepare. Whether it's computer based or using scribe, students should be well prepared. And in some cases, I have also seen lack of quality teaching in schools. I cannot disclose something here but I'm really proud of students like Kartik!! Thanks much. Regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula | @csrinivasu Sent from my iPhone 5C On 18-Mar-2015, at 15:52, Dinesh Kaushal wrote: O my god, this issue can bring to mind many problems that we have faced while appearing for our exams. Though many of us would have faced many problems during our exams, but no one discussed that a scribe would be emotionally pressured to help as well. Apart from scribes, some supervisors also want to help you. All of this indicates that people have low faith in the abilities of persons with disabilities and if you ask me, taking help this way during the exam is an insult to oneself. I agree with George. We all know that many people try to seek help from scribe, and Such incidences lead to weird rules such as scribe should not have scored more than 50 percent marks, or the scribe should not be from the same field. These rules hurt other candidates, as someone from non-science or mathematics field is often not able to explain the content in a meaningful way. Once I had to appear for a masters level entrance exam, and the person who was assigned as my scribe was 12th pass and he could not speak in English,(I had to ask him to spell words) and he did not understand importance of diagrams, so he just read out questions without letting me know that there are diagrams associated with those questions. After 2 to 3 questions, I realized that these questions are not making any sense unless there is a diagram. And then there are other problems related to Greek and other exotic symbols. Scenario is way better in international exams, and we can learn from them. I have appeared for 3 international exams. In all of the international exams that I appeared, they monitored with the help of CCTV so that there is no help from the scribe. But they do not impose such conditions such as maximum marks and area of specialization. Once I enquired about the qualification of the scribe, the guy told me that you can get who so ever you want, I will ensure you don't cheat. In other tests the condition was that the scribe should not have appeared for and should not be planning to appear for the same test within one year. But that condition is to ensure that the scribe does not benefit by being a scribe. So what is the answer for this problem? Unfortunately, everyone cannot appear for exams with the help of computer and many exams cannot be taken with the help of computer. Same is the case with Braille. Until we can solve that problem, better supervision is the answer. Apart from supervision, scribe and supervisor should be asked to sign an oath that they will not help the candidate and helping the candidate in this way would mean the candidate is incompetent. the candidate should also sign the same oath. If all of them sign the same oath, they would most likely not do the wrong thing. Regards Dinesh
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
It seems some of the honest people of our community have owned the responsibility of cleansing the exam system which wreaks disproportionate amount of burden on the examining institutions. These whistleblowers deserve salute. I'm deeply appalled to observe, instead of raising issues such as non-availability of textbooks on time, non-cooperative administrative apparatus, full of negative inhibitions among teachers about disabled students and absence of human support system outside the school are absent from discussion. We should certainly contemplate on questions: why a blind student is desperate to indulge in immoral practice of cheating in exams? Does he do by choice or he is left with no other option? I would just flag one provocative point and sign out: We the handful of privileged, tech-savvy, who are either employed or assured of earning, are doing injustice to those who are compelled to find livelihood amidst no hope. We should discuss examination loopholes in larger context then we will realize the real gap. Note: I wrote my all exams on computer since my MPhil first semester. On 3/18/15, akshun mahajan akshunmahajan...@gmail.com wrote: completely agreed with George sir, akansha has expressed absolute truth. We should not ggeneralize everything and if a sighted person is expressing anything contradictory about community we should welcome as well. here is my discussion on scribe, hope it will help to understand all things in this regard, https://www.youtube.comy On 3/18/15, Bhavya shah bhavya.shah...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Adequate supervision certainly would allow for fair usage of scribes. However, what is the feasibility of implementing a rule that allows visually impaired students to give their exams using their preferred means, namely - * Scribe * Computer * Braille Those who can, would then be allowed to use computers, and those who can't always have the other two alternative means available. Recently, while talking to a school teacher, she expressed her dissatisfactory experience with finding scribes (for other differently-abled such as learning disabled, but not blind) for students' in the Board exams. During the conversation, she also was saying that the CBSE Board head Vineet Joshi was going to retire and a new head or something like that would come up. Will the arrival of the new CBSE Board head have any consequences or implications affecting the rules and guidelines for visually impaired students writing exams? Just asking out of curiosity. Thanks. On 3/18/15, SKYLINER dn...@rediffmail.com wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:47:26 +0530 li...@srinivasu.org wrote Totally agree. I have seen situation in some schools where students give out text books to scribes in advance for them to prepare. Whether it's computer based or using scribe, students should be well prepared. And in some cases, I have also seen lack of quality teaching in schools. I cannot disclose something here but I'm really proud of students like Kartik!! Thanks much. Regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula | @csrinivasu Sent from my iPhone 5C On 18-Mar-2015, at 15:52, Dinesh Kaushal wrote: O my god, this issue can bring to mind many problems that we have faced while appearing for our exams. Though many of us would have faced many problems during our exams, but no one discussed that a scribe would be emotionally pressured to help as well. Apart from scribes, some supervisors also want to help you. All of this indicates that people have low faith in the abilities of persons with disabilities and if you ask me, taking help this way during the exam is an insult to oneself. I agree with George. We all know that many people try to seek help from scribe, and Such incidences lead to weird rules such as scribe should not have scored more than 50 percent marks, or the scribe should not be from the same field. These rules hurt other candidates, as someone from non-science or mathematics field is often not able to explain the content in a meaningful way. Once I had to appear for a masters level entrance exam, and the person who was assigned as my scribe was 12th pass and he could not speak in English,(I had to ask him to spell words) and he did not understand importance of diagrams, so he just read out questions without letting me know that there are diagrams associated with those questions. After 2 to 3 questions, I realized that these questions are not making any sense unless there is a diagram. And then there are other problems related to Greek and other exotic symbols. Scenario is way better in international exams, and we can learn from them. I have appeared for 3 international exams. In all of the international exams that I appeared, they monitored with the help of CCTV so that there is no help from
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
This is the biggest problem with some of our fellow members, when everr someone tries to put the right prospective before us rather than following or contemplating we attach that person emotionally and try to defend just because we have to show that we are the true devotee of the community. On 3/18/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: It seems some of the honest people of our community have owned the responsibility of cleansing the exam system which wreaks disproportionate amount of burden on the examining institutions. These whistleblowers deserve salute. I'm deeply appalled to observe, instead of raising issues such as non-availability of textbooks on time, non-cooperative administrative apparatus, full of negative inhibitions among teachers about disabled students and absence of human support system outside the school are absent from discussion. We should certainly contemplate on questions: why a blind student is desperate to indulge in immoral practice of cheating in exams? Does he do by choice or he is left with no other option? I would just flag one provocative point and sign out: We the handful of privileged, tech-savvy, who are either employed or assured of earning, are doing injustice to those who are compelled to find livelihood amidst no hope. We should discuss examination loopholes in larger context then we will realize the real gap. Note: I wrote my all exams on computer since my MPhil first semester. On 3/18/15, akshun mahajan akshunmahajan...@gmail.com wrote: completely agreed with George sir, akansha has expressed absolute truth. We should not ggeneralize everything and if a sighted person is expressing anything contradictory about community we should welcome as well. here is my discussion on scribe, hope it will help to understand all things in this regard, https://www.youtube.comy On 3/18/15, Bhavya shah bhavya.shah...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Adequate supervision certainly would allow for fair usage of scribes. However, what is the feasibility of implementing a rule that allows visually impaired students to give their exams using their preferred means, namely - * Scribe * Computer * Braille Those who can, would then be allowed to use computers, and those who can't always have the other two alternative means available. Recently, while talking to a school teacher, she expressed her dissatisfactory experience with finding scribes (for other differently-abled such as learning disabled, but not blind) for students' in the Board exams. During the conversation, she also was saying that the CBSE Board head Vineet Joshi was going to retire and a new head or something like that would come up. Will the arrival of the new CBSE Board head have any consequences or implications affecting the rules and guidelines for visually impaired students writing exams? Just asking out of curiosity. Thanks. On 3/18/15, SKYLINER dn...@rediffmail.com wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:47:26 +0530 li...@srinivasu.org wrote Totally agree. I have seen situation in some schools where students give out text books to scribes in advance for them to prepare. Whether it's computer based or using scribe, students should be well prepared. And in some cases, I have also seen lack of quality teaching in schools. I cannot disclose something here but I'm really proud of students like Kartik!! Thanks much. Regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula | @csrinivasu Sent from my iPhone 5C On 18-Mar-2015, at 15:52, Dinesh Kaushal wrote: O my god, this issue can bring to mind many problems that we have faced while appearing for our exams. Though many of us would have faced many problems during our exams, but no one discussed that a scribe would be emotionally pressured to help as well. Apart from scribes, some supervisors also want to help you. All of this indicates that people have low faith in the abilities of persons with disabilities and if you ask me, taking help this way during the exam is an insult to oneself. I agree with George. We all know that many people try to seek help from scribe, and Such incidences lead to weird rules such as scribe should not have scored more than 50 percent marks, or the scribe should not be from the same field. These rules hurt other candidates, as someone from non-science or mathematics field is often not able to explain the content in a meaningful way. Once I had to appear for a masters level entrance exam, and the person who was assigned as my scribe was 12th pass and he could not speak in English,(I had to ask him to spell words) and he did not understand importance of diagrams, so he just read out questions without letting me know that there are diagrams associated with those questions. After 2 to 3 questions, I realized that these questions are not making any
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal.
I think, government should first of all try making computers compulsory at regular schools. only then can schools in rural areas focus on giving admission to blind students and meet their requirements. but till then, its necessary that blind people who have all facilities excel in their respective fields. so that it will be a motivation for others to follow. On 3/18/15, REKHA REVATHY rekharevathy2...@gmail.com wrote: I think that Vidya pointed out very rightly about the constraints of making computer learning and usage compelssery very soon. It is very difficult to implement this kind of decissions very fast. But it doesn't mean that govt can not do anything in this regards. Quality of education in many blind schools is a matter of concern. As Vidya pointed out there can be exceptions in the case. There may good blind schools in developed and developing arreas. But when it comes to rural areas it becomes a question mark. Govt have to find some kind of solutions to improve the basic accessability of schools and quality of education in schools of all kind. Here there can be exceptions. But there are many cases in which schools are providing very better education to all category of people. But accessable computer education to blind students is again a matter of concern. On 3/18/15, Vidhya Y vidhya@gmail.com wrote: we talk about accessibility, taking exams on computer, android accessibility, integrated education etc what about Indian Villages? in Villages, parents don't even educate their blind children. even if they do, its going to be in a blind school because they stay far away from cities and definitely integrated education is not the solution because when there are no proper schools for sighted dchildren itself, what about schools educating blind? and also parents leave them in hostels because travelling is not possible. in this way many children complete their entire education. so how can government make computer based exam compulsory? I am taking my own example, till 7th grade I had to stay in hostel because it was 70 Kilometers away from home. and from home there is no way to join integrated school because in near buy schools, no one learns computer till 8th grade and internet access is a big issue. later in 8th grade I had to cope up with the normal class because in blind schools, quality education is generally not met(exceptional schools might be there) I had to learn algebric concepts which should have been thought in 4th grade. then I finally managed to study math till BCA. and later after getting introduced to computer from 11th grade, I could study easily and now internet is also available. only because of my cousin I got support to learn computer and since I developed interest in computer, I continued in the same field and now I'll do msc. I could do is because of extreme support of my parents, brother and tutors. but it is not the case for many children. I remember in my town, there is a blind lady who has not studied and never come out of her room. another blind child doesn't know how to walk till she is 12 years. still there are many villages!. in this group say there are 5000 people all over india, what about the rest of the blind people? say another 5000 know computer and have internet access but not in the group. what about the rest? statistics says there are millions of blind people. I think we feel that every one are so fortunate as the members in the group. but government cannot make such computer based exam compulsory. and we cannot say its left to blind people to cope up with all upcoming technology! On 3/18/15, Pranav Lal pranav@gmail.com wrote: And do not forget to teach formatting; your readers will be sighted and a badly formatted document is a serious turn off. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of kanchan Pamnani Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:42 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dont forget to teach grammar and spellings. Spell check is not the complete answer. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Prashant Verma prashant...@gmail.com To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dependence upon scribes and misuse of scribes is indeed a real problem. At NAB Delhi we have started a project titled technology aided education of the blind to make students independent in reading and writing thereby eliminating the dependence upon scribes
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
I do not think the writer means any offence neither do I think she is trying to demean blind and visually impaired people. The very fact that she is volunteering or investing her time in being a scribe implies that she believes in the blind and visually impaired people. What she has written is not fiction. This has been happening and not just one or two stray instance but quite commonly. Let us not get into the ostritch syndrome and stick our heads in the sand. She in her piece is simply pointing our attention to certain ground realities. I think we need to take on board these realities as we move forward with planning our systems and policies. I also agree to the fact that the abuse of systems and facilities by some of the blind people brings a bad reputation to the entire group. Further this has negative impact on the understanding and attitude of people towards blind people. Our approach should be to address the abuse rather than being critical of the messenger. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of avinash shahi Sent: 17 March 2015 16:23 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. This writer seems to me is obsessed with illusive competence Though I defend her right to express what she experienced, however she has unwillingly hurt the sentiments of millions of blind who lack means to learn computers. in her words, She may have done 'philanthropy' by writing somebody's exam, but her herling of bombshell on examinees such as 'cajole' and 'emotional-blackmaling' is very disturbing. She has also negated the importance of reservation for PWDs which is against the constitutional principle of treating equal equally and unequal unequally. She should know that questionpapers are supposed to be provided in Braille to blind people if they desire, but do government ensure? She should reflect on questions why blind people are compelled to give exams in print? why not in their own desired mode? She should read Miranda Tomkonson judgment and MSJE Scribe guidelines which forced UGC to provide NET questionpapers in Braille. On 3/16/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Dependence upon scribes and misuse of scribes is indeed a real problem. At NAB Delhi we have started a project titled technology aided education of the blind to make students independent in reading and writing thereby eliminating the dependence upon scribes. Under this project, our students of class 6 and above will get personal laptops and students of class 3 to 5 will get computer training. The target is to make sure all blind studetns of classe 6 and above are able to read the computer to read books and write their exams. I hope in the years to come, our students will write their exams themselves. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of George Abraham Sent: 17 March 2015 07:42 To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Systems of examinations should change so that our dependency on other people like scribes would be reduced. For new systems to work our primary/secondary education also has to evolve to being more technology based. VIs not being tech competent cannot be a reason to not use online processes. VIs have to empower themselves. That is a challenge. In the transition period, there would be a number of people who will find the computer/online processes tough. We need to focus on empowerment. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Vamshi. G Sent: 16 March 2015 19:54 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. The problem with examinations on computers is the lack of knowledge of the same for many visually challenged. I myself was not aware of screen readers till my 25th year. On 3/16/15, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: Completely agreed On 3/15/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal.
Dont forget to teach grammar and spellings. Spell check is not the complete answer. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Prashant Verma prashant...@gmail.com To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dependence upon scribes and misuse of scribes is indeed a real problem. At NAB Delhi we have started a project titled technology aided education of the blind to make students independent in reading and writing thereby eliminating the dependence upon scribes. Under this project, our students of class 6 and above will get personal laptops and students of class 3 to 5 will get computer training. The target is to make sure all blind studetns of classe 6 and above are able to read the computer to read books and write their exams. I hope in the years to come, our students will write their exams themselves. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of George Abraham Sent: 17 March 2015 07:42 To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Systems of examinations should change so that our dependency on other people like scribes would be reduced. For new systems to work our primary/secondary education also has to evolve to being more technology based. VIs not being tech competent cannot be a reason to not use online processes. VIs have to empower themselves. That is a challenge. In the transition period, there would be a number of people who will find the computer/online processes tough. We need to focus on empowerment. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Vamshi. G Sent: 16 March 2015 19:54 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. The problem with examinations on computers is the lack of knowledge of the same for many visually challenged. I myself was not aware of screen readers till my 25th year. On 3/16/15, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: Completely agreed On 3/15/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
This writer seems to me is obsessed with illusive competence Though I defend her right to express what she experienced, however she has unwillingly hurt the sentiments of millions of blind who lack means to learn computers. in her words, She may have done 'philanthropy' by writing somebody's exam, but her herling of bombshell on examinees such as 'cajole' and 'emotional-blackmaling' is very disturbing. She has also negated the importance of reservation for PWDs which is against the constitutional principle of treating equal equally and unequal unequally. She should know that questionpapers are supposed to be provided in Braille to blind people if they desire, but do government ensure? She should reflect on questions why blind people are compelled to give exams in print? why not in their own desired mode? She should read Miranda Tomkonson judgment and MSJE Scribe guidelines which forced UGC to provide NET questionpapers in Braille. On 3/16/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special needs. How much of this expenditure actually benefits them is the question. It would perhaps do some good if the government spent the same amount of money in providing the candidates with computers that would read out the question papers to the candidates who can then mark the answers with their own hand. Various countries like Spain actually use such an approach
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal.
I think that Vidya pointed out very rightly about the constraints of making computer learning and usage compelssery very soon. It is very difficult to implement this kind of decissions very fast. But it doesn't mean that govt can not do anything in this regards. Quality of education in many blind schools is a matter of concern. As Vidya pointed out there can be exceptions in the case. There may good blind schools in developed and developing arreas. But when it comes to rural areas it becomes a question mark. Govt have to find some kind of solutions to improve the basic accessability of schools and quality of education in schools of all kind. Here there can be exceptions. But there are many cases in which schools are providing very better education to all category of people. But accessable computer education to blind students is again a matter of concern. On 3/18/15, Vidhya Y vidhya@gmail.com wrote: we talk about accessibility, taking exams on computer, android accessibility, integrated education etc what about Indian Villages? in Villages, parents don't even educate their blind children. even if they do, its going to be in a blind school because they stay far away from cities and definitely integrated education is not the solution because when there are no proper schools for sighted dchildren itself, what about schools educating blind? and also parents leave them in hostels because travelling is not possible. in this way many children complete their entire education. so how can government make computer based exam compulsory? I am taking my own example, till 7th grade I had to stay in hostel because it was 70 Kilometers away from home. and from home there is no way to join integrated school because in near buy schools, no one learns computer till 8th grade and internet access is a big issue. later in 8th grade I had to cope up with the normal class because in blind schools, quality education is generally not met(exceptional schools might be there) I had to learn algebric concepts which should have been thought in 4th grade. then I finally managed to study math till BCA. and later after getting introduced to computer from 11th grade, I could study easily and now internet is also available. only because of my cousin I got support to learn computer and since I developed interest in computer, I continued in the same field and now I'll do msc. I could do is because of extreme support of my parents, brother and tutors. but it is not the case for many children. I remember in my town, there is a blind lady who has not studied and never come out of her room. another blind child doesn't know how to walk till she is 12 years. still there are many villages!. in this group say there are 5000 people all over india, what about the rest of the blind people? say another 5000 know computer and have internet access but not in the group. what about the rest? statistics says there are millions of blind people. I think we feel that every one are so fortunate as the members in the group. but government cannot make such computer based exam compulsory. and we cannot say its left to blind people to cope up with all upcoming technology! On 3/18/15, Pranav Lal pranav@gmail.com wrote: And do not forget to teach formatting; your readers will be sighted and a badly formatted document is a serious turn off. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of kanchan Pamnani Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:42 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dont forget to teach grammar and spellings. Spell check is not the complete answer. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Prashant Verma prashant...@gmail.com To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dependence upon scribes and misuse of scribes is indeed a real problem. At NAB Delhi we have started a project titled technology aided education of the blind to make students independent in reading and writing thereby eliminating the dependence upon scribes. Under this project, our students of class 6 and above will get personal laptops and students of class 3 to 5 will get computer training. The target is to make sure all blind studetns of classe 6 and above are able to read the computer to read books and write their exams. I hope in the years to come, our students will write their exams themselves. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal.
we talk about accessibility, taking exams on computer, android accessibility, integrated education etc what about Indian Villages? in Villages, parents don't even educate their blind children. even if they do, its going to be in a blind school because they stay far away from cities and definitely integrated education is not the solution because when there are no proper schools for sighted dchildren itself, what about schools educating blind? and also parents leave them in hostels because travelling is not possible. in this way many children complete their entire education. so how can government make computer based exam compulsory? I am taking my own example, till 7th grade I had to stay in hostel because it was 70 Kilometers away from home. and from home there is no way to join integrated school because in near buy schools, no one learns computer till 8th grade and internet access is a big issue. later in 8th grade I had to cope up with the normal class because in blind schools, quality education is generally not met(exceptional schools might be there) I had to learn algebric concepts which should have been thought in 4th grade. then I finally managed to study math till BCA. and later after getting introduced to computer from 11th grade, I could study easily and now internet is also available. only because of my cousin I got support to learn computer and since I developed interest in computer, I continued in the same field and now I'll do msc. I could do is because of extreme support of my parents, brother and tutors. but it is not the case for many children. I remember in my town, there is a blind lady who has not studied and never come out of her room. another blind child doesn't know how to walk till she is 12 years. still there are many villages!. in this group say there are 5000 people all over india, what about the rest of the blind people? say another 5000 know computer and have internet access but not in the group. what about the rest? statistics says there are millions of blind people. I think we feel that every one are so fortunate as the members in the group. but government cannot make such computer based exam compulsory. and we cannot say its left to blind people to cope up with all upcoming technology! On 3/18/15, Pranav Lal pranav@gmail.com wrote: And do not forget to teach formatting; your readers will be sighted and a badly formatted document is a serious turn off. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of kanchan Pamnani Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:42 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dont forget to teach grammar and spellings. Spell check is not the complete answer. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Prashant Verma prashant...@gmail.com To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dependence upon scribes and misuse of scribes is indeed a real problem. At NAB Delhi we have started a project titled technology aided education of the blind to make students independent in reading and writing thereby eliminating the dependence upon scribes. Under this project, our students of class 6 and above will get personal laptops and students of class 3 to 5 will get computer training. The target is to make sure all blind studetns of classe 6 and above are able to read the computer to read books and write their exams. I hope in the years to come, our students will write their exams themselves. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of George Abraham Sent: 17 March 2015 07:42 To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Systems of examinations should change so that our dependency on other people like scribes would be reduced. For new systems to work our primary/secondary education also has to evolve to being more technology based. VIs not being tech competent cannot be a reason to not use online processes. VIs have to empower themselves. That is a challenge. In the transition period, there would be a number of people who will find the computer/online processes tough. We need to focus on empowerment. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Vamshi. G Sent: 16 March 2015 19:54 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal.
And do not forget to teach formatting; your readers will be sighted and a badly formatted document is a serious turn off. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of kanchan Pamnani Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:42 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dont forget to teach grammar and spellings. Spell check is not the complete answer. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Prashant Verma prashant...@gmail.com To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired- Akanksha Mittal. Dependence upon scribes and misuse of scribes is indeed a real problem. At NAB Delhi we have started a project titled technology aided education of the blind to make students independent in reading and writing thereby eliminating the dependence upon scribes. Under this project, our students of class 6 and above will get personal laptops and students of class 3 to 5 will get computer training. The target is to make sure all blind studetns of classe 6 and above are able to read the computer to read books and write their exams. I hope in the years to come, our students will write their exams themselves. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of George Abraham Sent: 17 March 2015 07:42 To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. Systems of examinations should change so that our dependency on other people like scribes would be reduced. For new systems to work our primary/secondary education also has to evolve to being more technology based. VIs not being tech competent cannot be a reason to not use online processes. VIs have to empower themselves. That is a challenge. In the transition period, there would be a number of people who will find the computer/online processes tough. We need to focus on empowerment. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Vamshi. G Sent: 16 March 2015 19:54 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. The problem with examinations on computers is the lack of knowledge of the same for many visually challenged. I myself was not aware of screen readers till my 25th year. On 3/16/15, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: Completely agreed On 3/15/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
nice efforts by nab delhi. I apeel to other NGOs to come forward and contribute to the blind community on this issue. Sensitisation of government ministries and spreading awairness amungs them about accessible technologies including screen reading softwares would help. Warm regards, yogesh chhabra On 3/17/15, avinash shahi shahi88avin...@gmail.com wrote: This writer seems to me is obsessed with illusive competence Though I defend her right to express what she experienced, however she has unwillingly hurt the sentiments of millions of blind who lack means to learn computers. in her words, She may have done 'philanthropy' by writing somebody's exam, but her herling of bombshell on examinees such as 'cajole' and 'emotional-blackmaling' is very disturbing. She has also negated the importance of reservation for PWDs which is against the constitutional principle of treating equal equally and unequal unequally. She should know that questionpapers are supposed to be provided in Braille to blind people if they desire, but do government ensure? She should reflect on questions why blind people are compelled to give exams in print? why not in their own desired mode? She should read Miranda Tomkonson judgment and MSJE Scribe guidelines which forced UGC to provide NET questionpapers in Braille. On 3/16/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Systems of examinations should change so that our dependency on other people like scribes would be reduced. For new systems to work our primary/secondary education also has to evolve to being more technology based. VIs not being tech competent cannot be a reason to not use online processes. VIs have to empower themselves. That is a challenge. In the transition period, there would be a number of people who will find the computer/online processes tough. We need to focus on empowerment. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Vamshi. G Sent: 16 March 2015 19:54 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal. The problem with examinations on computers is the lack of knowledge of the same for many visually challenged. I myself was not aware of screen readers till my 25th year. On 3/16/15, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: Completely agreed On 3/15/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special needs. How much of this expenditure actually benefits them is the question. It would perhaps do some good if the government spent the same amount of money in providing the candidates with computers that would read out the question papers
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
The problem with examinations on computers is the lack of knowledge of the same for many visually challenged. I myself was not aware of screen readers till my 25th year. On 3/16/15, Kartik Sawhney sawhney.kar...@gmail.com wrote: Completely agreed On 3/15/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special needs. How much of this expenditure actually benefits them is the question. It would perhaps do some good if the government spent the same amount of money in providing the candidates with computers that would read out the question papers to the candidates who can then mark the answers with their own hand. Various countries like Spain actually use such an approach towards examinations. Providing reservations to candidates with special needs is not the solution. Giving them equal opportunity to perform to the best of their capability is what is needed. In the words of an invigilator at the SSC examination, Getting jobs through the 3% reservation for people with disabilities might succeed at giving them a livelihood, but they are sometimes more a liability to the government offices than assets. There is no denying that every person has the capability to perform like any other. All that we need is an equal opportunity to do that, which the current examination structure does not succeed in providing. Directing the expenditure towards the
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
before Giving test exam on Computer, visually impaired must trained how to type the answer and read the questions. I heard that for Online Exams also, Visually impaired has to go with Writer to type on Exam. Keep CCTV on exam hall so that, every Problem will solve. On 3/16/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special needs. How much of this expenditure actually benefits them is the question. It would perhaps do some good if the government spent the same amount of money in providing the candidates with computers that would read out the question papers to the candidates who can then mark the answers with their own hand. Various countries like Spain actually use such an approach towards examinations. Providing reservations to candidates with special needs is not the solution. Giving them equal opportunity to perform to the best of their capability is what is needed. In the words of an invigilator at the SSC examination, Getting jobs through the 3% reservation for people with disabilities might succeed at giving them a livelihood, but they are sometimes more a liability to the government offices than assets. There is no denying that every person has the capability to perform like any other. All that we need is an equal opportunity to do that, which the current examination structure does not succeed in providing. Directing the expenditure
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Rather than spending on scribe,one invigilator , CCTV Govt should sensatise and implement computer learning with screen reader for VI students @ schooling. Impact can be witnessed in any type of exams, provided accessibility issues are met. On 3/16/15, Mohib Anwar Rafay mohibra...@gmail.com wrote: Having one invigilator for each candidate will solve the problem. More over exams with screenreader should be promoted, at least those candidates who are really wanting this facility should not suffer out for scribe problem. On 3/16/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: before Giving test exam on Computer, visually impaired must trained how to type the answer and read the questions. I heard that for Online Exams also, Visually impaired has to go with Writer to type on Exam. Keep CCTV on exam hall so that, every Problem will solve. On 3/16/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special needs. How much of this expenditure actually benefits them is the question. It would perhaps do some good if the government spent the same amount of money in providing the candidates with computers that would read out the question papers to the candidates who can then mark the answers with their own hand. Various countries like Spain actually use such an approach towards examinations. Providing reservations to candidates with special
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Having one invigilator for each candidate will solve the problem. More over exams with screenreader should be promoted, at least those candidates who are really wanting this facility should not suffer out for scribe problem. On 3/16/15, Siddalingeshwar Ingalagi ingalagisi...@gmail.com wrote: before Giving test exam on Computer, visually impaired must trained how to type the answer and read the questions. I heard that for Online Exams also, Visually impaired has to go with Writer to type on Exam. Keep CCTV on exam hall so that, every Problem will solve. On 3/16/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special needs. How much of this expenditure actually benefits them is the question. It would perhaps do some good if the government spent the same amount of money in providing the candidates with computers that would read out the question papers to the candidates who can then mark the answers with their own hand. Various countries like Spain actually use such an approach towards examinations. Providing reservations to candidates with special needs is not the solution. Giving them equal opportunity to perform to the best of their capability is what is needed. In the words of an invigilator at the SSC examination, Getting jobs through the 3% reservation for people with disabilities might succeed at giving them a livelihood, but they are
[AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special needs. How much of this expenditure actually benefits them is the question. It would perhaps do some good if the government spent the same amount of money in providing the candidates with computers that would read out the question papers to the candidates who can then mark the answers with their own hand. Various countries like Spain actually use such an approach towards examinations. Providing reservations to candidates with special needs is not the solution. Giving them equal opportunity to perform to the best of their capability is what is needed. In the words of an invigilator at the SSC examination, Getting jobs through the 3% reservation for people with disabilities might succeed at giving them a livelihood, but they are sometimes more a liability to the government offices than assets. There is no denying that every person has the capability to perform like any other. All that we need is an equal opportunity to do that, which the current examination structure does not succeed in providing. Directing the expenditure towards the development of better infrastructure would perhaps be a more intelligent choice than just spending it because you believe you have so much of it! Source: http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2011/08/two-better-than-one-being-a-scribe-for-a-visually-impaired-in-an-exam/ -- It doesn't matter what we have, but it really matters what we do with what we have. With Sincere Regards
Re: [AI] 2 Better Than 1? Being A Scribe For A Visually Impaired - Akanksha Mittal.
Completely agreed On 3/15/15, bala9119 bala9...@gmail.com wrote: They say experience is the best teacher. And two experiences then are better teachers, I guess. So here are two such experiences that gave me two entirely different perspectives, yet zeroing down to perhaps just one conclusion. The Staff Selection Commission conducts examinations for graduates and post graduates for various government posts, apart from UPSC and DSSSB. Examinations for the posts that can be taken up by Visually Impaired Students have the provision of Scribes to make the examination smooth and accessible to the students. Keeping aside the whole debatable concept of posts that can be taken up by the Visually Impaired, here I am going to discuss two such instances when I became a Scribe for a few Visually Impaired persons appearing for the SSC Examinations. During my first attempt at writing the paper for a visually impaired person, I went through three hours of emotional blackmailing by the candidate trying to cajole me into filling up the answers for him through my knowledge. I was caught in an ugly position where in the name of philanthropy I was actually cheating with the consent of the system! There are mathematical questions that a student with visual impairment has to answer which perhaps cannot be solved without using aids such as an Abacus or a Calculator. Having been accustomed to using the Abacus, two of the candidates I wrote the exam for found it difficult to calculate on their fingertips. Further, repeating the questions thrice and asking them to repeat their choice of answers umpteen times leads to wasteful use of time. In that sense, even the provision of extra time of 20-40 minutes for the visually impaired students is sometimes not enough and sometimes not legitimate. If the scribe is honestly not doing the candidate's paper then the former applies and if the scribe is helping the candidate with his answers then the latter. To err is human. And having to bear the brunt of someone else's mistake in something that perhaps decides your mode of earning a livelihood is exploitative. The visually impaired student places a lot of trust in the scribe who is marking his/her answers and is perhaps never going to be able to find out what went wrong if his scribes just could not answer the same way the candidate wants him/her to. Who is to blame? The second experience pointed to the inefficiency of the examination system further. The scribes are paid a remuneration of Rs. 500 by the Government for being present at the examination centre during all the shifts in which the exams are conducted on a single day. Whether a scribe actually writes an exam for a candidate or not is not the concern. So technically, you can just plan a get together with your friends one pleasant Sunday afternoon, decide to mark your attendance as a scribe during the morning and afternoon sessions and get paid for just two signatures and catching up with your friends. And that is exactly what I saw a group of people doing there who were selected as scribes without any preliminary screening apart from meeting the minimum requirement of being a class 12 graduate. What happens on rainy days when the candidates do not appear for the examination but the scribes do? The government pays a handsome amount to people for no work done by them. One such rainy day was the second time I decided to write the examination for a visually impaired, when most candidates missed their exam owing to the rain. There is no denying that the government spends money in trying to make the exams more accessible to candidates with special needs. How much of this expenditure actually benefits them is the question. It would perhaps do some good if the government spent the same amount of money in providing the candidates with computers that would read out the question papers to the candidates who can then mark the answers with their own hand. Various countries like Spain actually use such an approach towards examinations. Providing reservations to candidates with special needs is not the solution. Giving them equal opportunity to perform to the best of their capability is what is needed. In the words of an invigilator at the SSC examination, Getting jobs through the 3% reservation for people with disabilities might succeed at giving them a livelihood, but they are sometimes more a liability to the government offices than assets. There is no denying that every person has the capability to perform like any other. All that we need is an equal opportunity to do that, which the current examination structure does not succeed in providing. Directing the expenditure towards the development of better infrastructure would perhaps be a more intelligent choice than just spending it because you believe you have so much of it! Source:
