Re: [AFMUG] Ot: generator farm

2018-11-26 Thread Matt Hoppes 
I was thinking the same thing!

> On Nov 27, 2018, at 00:25, Ryan Ray  wrote:
> 
> You should all pitch in and build a propane backup generator
> 
>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 8:04 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>> All the different companies on the tower bring their own genset. 
>> 
>>> On November 26, 2018 10:00:36 PM CST, Darin Steffl 
>>>  wrote:
>>> How much juice you running that you need that many generators? 
>>> 
>>> Our most heavily loaded WISP site uses about 650 watts so the little Honda 
>>> EU2000 is more than enough.
>>> 
 On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:38 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
 When a tower loses power and there is not a site generator. -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Darin Steffl
>>> Minnesota WiFi
>>> www.mnwifi.com
>>> 507-634-WiFi
>>>  Like us on Facebook
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Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread TJ Trout 
I get it now, the 48v never changes just the ground reference.

I'm guessing the reason no one uses negative ground loads on a -48 system
is the chassis ground being bonded to the inputs return.

Could I therically isolate my eltek -48 from any ground and operate it as a
negative ground system?

Or if the chassis isn't bonded to either can I just avoid grounding the
supply?

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018, 10:29 PM TJ Trout  Chuck,
>
> Are you sure the eltek's don't have the chassis ground bonded to the
> positive output ?
>
> So I'm assuming the complication here is that if you reverse the wires,
> when you try to power a +48v device, and it's negative input is bonded to
> chassis ground and you have a ground path between the two (like a metal
> rack) or possibly somehow through the AC ground/neutral you cause a direct
> short circuit?
>
> I see mentions of DC-DC converters, but I don't see the point of using a
> 300w RSD converter with a 2000W rectifier shelf?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 2:57 PM  wrote:
>
>> It is 48.  Period.  You choose the reference if you want one.
>>
>> If you tie the + terminal to chassis ground then the – terminal is the
>> hot –48 VDC terminal.
>>
>> If you tie the – terminal to chassis ground then the + terminal is the
>> hot +48 VDC terminal.
>>
>> If you don’t tie either to chassis ground, then you will have to have a
>> common return bar that is on the opposite rail from your fuses and circuit
>> breakers.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 26, 2018 3:40 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48
>>
>> I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48
>> or -48, seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was
>> positive ground.
>>
>> How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground
>> power source?
>>
>> I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread TJ Trout 
Chuck,

Are you sure the eltek's don't have the chassis ground bonded to the
positive output ?

So I'm assuming the complication here is that if you reverse the wires,
when you try to power a +48v device, and it's negative input is bonded to
chassis ground and you have a ground path between the two (like a metal
rack) or possibly somehow through the AC ground/neutral you cause a direct
short circuit?

I see mentions of DC-DC converters, but I don't see the point of using a
300w RSD converter with a 2000W rectifier shelf?



On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 2:57 PM  wrote:

> It is 48.  Period.  You choose the reference if you want one.
>
> If you tie the + terminal to chassis ground then the – terminal is the hot
> –48 VDC terminal.
>
> If you tie the – terminal to chassis ground then the + terminal is the hot
> +48 VDC terminal.
>
> If you don’t tie either to chassis ground, then you will have to have a
> common return bar that is on the opposite rail from your fuses and circuit
> breakers.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Monday, November 26, 2018 3:40 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48
>
> I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48 or
> -48, seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was positive
> ground.
>
> How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground
> power source?
>
> I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis?
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Solar panel efficiency - Storage solutions NOT

2018-11-26 Thread Robert 
& how not to do storage...  Can you imagine what a power wall going up 
in a house fire would be like?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q


On 11/26/18 4:29 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Closer to 14,000 homes. California already produces more solar 
electricity than it can use. The next big thing is storage.



bp


On 11/26/2018 10:22 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
There were about 9500 homes destroyed in the california wildfires. 
Thats 9500 new mandated solar installations in a short period. That 
will bump demand, with tarrifs supply will be hopefully limited. maybe 
this will get some funds floated into 43% efficiency research 




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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: generator farm

2018-11-26 Thread Ryan Ray 
You should all pitch in and build a propane backup generator

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 8:04 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> All the different companies on the tower bring their own genset.
>
> On November 26, 2018 10:00:36 PM CST, Darin Steffl <
> darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:
>>
>> How much juice you running that you need that many generators?
>>
>> Our most heavily loaded WISP site uses about 650 watts so the little
>> Honda EU2000 is more than enough.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:38 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> When a tower loses power and there is not a site generator. --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darin Steffl
>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com
>> 507-634-WiFi
>>  Like us on Facebook
>> 
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: generator farm

2018-11-26 Thread Nate Burke 
All the different companies on the tower bring their own genset. 

On November 26, 2018 10:00:36 PM CST, Darin Steffl  
wrote:
>How much juice you running that you need that many generators?
>
>Our most heavily loaded WISP site uses about 650 watts so the little
>Honda
>EU2000 is more than enough.
>
>On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:38 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> When a tower loses power and there is not a site generator. --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>-- 
>Darin Steffl
>Minnesota WiFi
>www.mnwifi.com
>507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: generator farm

2018-11-26 Thread Darin Steffl 
How much juice you running that you need that many generators?

Our most heavily loaded WISP site uses about 650 watts so the little Honda
EU2000 is more than enough.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:38 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> When a tower loses power and there is not a site generator. --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

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Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

2018-11-26 Thread Adam Moffett 
A long time. In theory if I've got 300 watt load then I've got 300 watts 
for charging, so at least 16 hours to go from dead to charged.
Most sites are more like 100-150 Watt, and they're only that high 
because the Telrad stuff needs a lot of juice.  Still probably 10-12 
hours to fully recharge.


I haven't actually monitored the recharging, so I couldn't say how long 
it /actually/ took, but it couldn't be any faster than that.


-Adam


On 11/26/2018 7:42 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:


Wow 4x100SH.   How long did they take to recharge after a 18 hour run 
time?   My worry is there will be so little left for the batteries if 
you have say 400 Watts of site load?


Adam

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, November 26, 2018 12:59 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

The BCM48A can take 10 gauge wire on the battery terminal.
I would assume the BCM48 is the same, but I don't have any of those.

Keep in mind the 360Watt unit at 48V means there can't be more than a 
7.5amp load.  On the 600Watt (BCM-48A) you can't have more than 
12.5amp, and in fact there's a 12.5amp fuse on the battery circuit.  
So you don't need wire for a larger load than that.  #10 AWG is more 
than sufficient.


I use 100ah x 4, so 4800 watt-hour.  A site with 3 Trango Lynx and a 
Telrad Compact ran for 18 hours without utility power, so the thing 
does its job.


-Adam


On 11/26/2018 3:31 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:

Ken

How many AH of battery do you hang off one of these units?

Battery connections look very small…

Adam

*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 1:35 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

What are you doing for battery backup?

Another option we use at most of our medium size towers now is the
Traco TSP-BCM48 battery control module with a TSP360-148 power
supply.  They do have a 600W version I think it is TSP-BCM48A and
TSP600-148 but I haven’t used them.

I’m going to guess you have AC UPS’s with a big-ass battery string?

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 1:57 PM
*To:* AFMUG mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

Yeah, 1000 watts does seem like overkill for... the biggest power
supply I've used on any of our towers is 480 watt, and I figured
that should be more than double what we actually are using. I
mostly use Meanwell 240 watt DIN rail mount power supplies these days.

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:08 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

I assume you  want an AC/DC power supply not a switch?  Mean
Well is a good brand, personally I prefer the HRP series
especially if you putting it at a tower site because it is a
high reliability model with a wider temperature range, the
price difference won’t break the bank.  I tend to keep HRP-150
and HRP-300 supplies on the shelf.

Also that’s a pretty big power supply.  Do you really need
that much power?  It makes sense to have some extra capacity
to handle inrush current, but probably not more than double. 
Power supplies tend to be inefficient when run way below max
rating.  If you really need 1000 watts, maybe a rectifier
shelf with N+1 redundant power modules would be a better
choice.  Or for the higher power consumption radios like
licensed backhauls, some WISPs like to use a 100 or 150W power
supply for each radio.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 10:01 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

I have always had great luck with Meanwell products.

*From:*Alex Davidson

*Sent:*Friday, November 23, 2018 8:11 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com 

*Subject:*[AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

Hey guys, we are stepping up to some 48v equipment on a tower
and in looking into power supply switches. This seemed to be
something that would work for us (Mean Well SE-1000-48). Any
thoughts or pros and cons that yall have found with this unit.
Any units of similarity that might work well in place of this
one. Thanks



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Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

2018-11-26 Thread Mathew Howard 
Yeah, how many AH worth of batteries you have doesn't really affect how big
of wire you have to use, if the power supply can only give you 7.5 amps,
that's all the wire needs to be able to handle. Of course if you have too
many batteries, it's going to take forever to recharge them, but for our
applications, that isn't generally a big deal.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 2:59 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> The BCM48A can take 10 gauge wire on the battery terminal.
> I would assume the BCM48 is the same, but I don't have any of those.
>
> Keep in mind the 360Watt unit at 48V means there can't be more than a
> 7.5amp load.  On the 600Watt (BCM-48A) you can't have more than 12.5amp,
> and in fact there's a 12.5amp fuse on the battery circuit.  So you don't
> need wire for a larger load than that.  #10 AWG is more than sufficient.
>
> I use 100ah x 4, so 4800 watt-hour.  A site with 3 Trango Lynx and a
> Telrad Compact ran for 18 hours without utility power, so the thing does
> its job.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> On 11/26/2018 3:31 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> How many AH of battery do you hang off one of these units?
>
>
>
> Battery connections look very small…
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 1:35 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>
>
>
> What are you doing for battery backup?
>
>
>
> Another option we use at most of our medium size towers now is the Traco
> TSP-BCM48 battery control module with a TSP360-148 power supply.  They do
> have a 600W version I think it is TSP-BCM48A and TSP600-148 but I haven’t
> used them.
>
>
>
> I’m going to guess you have AC UPS’s with a big-ass battery string?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 1:57 PM
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>
>
>
> Yeah, 1000 watts does seem like overkill for... the biggest power supply
> I've used on any of our towers is 480 watt, and I figured that should be
> more than double what we actually are using. I mostly use Meanwell 240 watt
> DIN rail mount power supplies these days.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:08 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I assume you  want an AC/DC power supply not a switch?  Mean Well is a
> good brand, personally I prefer the HRP series especially if you putting it
> at a tower site because it is a high reliability model with a wider
> temperature range, the price difference won’t break the bank.  I tend to
> keep HRP-150 and HRP-300 supplies on the shelf.
>
>
>
> Also that’s a pretty big power supply.  Do you really need that much
> power?  It makes sense to have some extra capacity to handle inrush
> current, but probably not more than double.  Power supplies tend to be
> inefficient when run way below max rating.  If you really need 1000 watts,
> maybe a rectifier shelf with N+1 redundant power modules would be a better
> choice.  Or for the higher power consumption radios like licensed
> backhauls, some WISPs like to use a 100 or 150W power supply for each radio.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 10:01 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>
>
>
> I have always had great luck with Meanwell products.
>
>
>
> *From:* Alex Davidson
>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 8:11 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>
>
>
> Hey guys, we are stepping up to some 48v equipment on a tower and in
> looking into power supply switches. This seemed to be something that would
> work for us (Mean Well SE-1000-48). Any thoughts or pros and cons that yall
> have found with this unit. Any units of similarity that might work well in
> place of this one. Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
> --
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Solar panel efficiency

2018-11-26 Thread Robert 

Sounds like the perfect use for the Tesla Powerpack.

On 11/26/18 4:29 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Closer to 14,000 homes. California already produces more solar 
electricity than it can use. The next big thing is storage.



bp


On 11/26/2018 10:22 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
There were about 9500 homes destroyed in the california wildfires. 
Thats 9500 new mandated solar installations in a short period. That 
will bump demand, with tarrifs supply will be hopefully limited. maybe 
this will get some funds floated into 43% efficiency research 




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Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread SmarterBroadband 
Not sure that is true with the J series?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 2:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

 

It is 48.  Period.  You choose the reference if you want one.  

 

If you tie the + terminal to chassis ground then the – terminal is the hot –48 
VDC terminal.

 

If you tie the – terminal to chassis ground then the + terminal is the hot +48 
VDC terminal.

 

If you don’t tie either to chassis ground, then you will have to have a common 
return bar that is on the opposite rail from your fuses and circuit breakers.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 3:40 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

 

I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48 or -48, 
seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was positive ground. 

 

How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground power 
source?

 

I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis? 

 

 

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Solar panel efficiency

2018-11-26 Thread Bill Prince 
Closer to 14,000 homes. California already produces more solar 
electricity than it can use. The next big thing is storage.



bp


On 11/26/2018 10:22 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
There were about 9500 homes destroyed in the california wildfires. 
Thats 9500 new mandated solar installations in a short period. That 
will bump demand, with tarrifs supply will be hopefully limited. maybe 
this will get some funds floated into 43% efficiency research 


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Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread chuck 
You are probably right.  I have the question into the factory about the MX 
series.  I don’t recall the output terminals indicating they were referenced.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 5:06 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

I don’t know about J series, but their Micropack series is -48V.  I seem to 
remember because of the control circuitry.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 4:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

 

It is 48.  Period.  You choose the reference if you want one.  

 

If you tie the + terminal to chassis ground then the – terminal is the hot –48 
VDC terminal.

 

If you tie the – terminal to chassis ground then the + terminal is the hot +48 
VDC terminal.

 

If you don’t tie either to chassis ground, then you will have to have a common 
return bar that is on the opposite rail from your fuses and circuit breakers.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 3:40 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

 

I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48 or -48, 
seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was positive ground. 

 

How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground power 
source?

 

I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis? 

 

 




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Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread Ken Hohhof 
I don’t know about J series, but their Micropack series is -48V.  I seem to 
remember because of the control circuitry.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 4:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

 

It is 48.  Period.  You choose the reference if you want one.  

 

If you tie the + terminal to chassis ground then the – terminal is the hot –48 
VDC terminal.

 

If you tie the – terminal to chassis ground then the + terminal is the hot +48 
VDC terminal.

 

If you don’t tie either to chassis ground, then you will have to have a common 
return bar that is on the opposite rail from your fuses and circuit breakers.  

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 3:40 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

 

I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48 or -48, 
seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was positive ground. 

 

How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground power 
source?

 

I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis? 

 

 

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread Josh Baird 
It's -48VDC.  You'll need an isolated DC-DC converter (eg, Meanwell RSD) if
you need to power +48VDC loads.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 5:41 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48 or
> -48, seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was positive
> ground.
>
> How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground
> power source?
>
> I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis?
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread chuck 
It is 48.  Period.  You choose the reference if you want one.  

If you tie the + terminal to chassis ground then the – terminal is the hot –48 
VDC terminal.

If you tie the – terminal to chassis ground then the + terminal is the hot +48 
VDC terminal.

If you don’t tie either to chassis ground, then you will have to have a common 
return bar that is on the opposite rail from your fuses and circuit breakers.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 3:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48 or -48, 
seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was positive ground. 

How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground power 
source?

I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis? 





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Re: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread chuck 
I am an Eltek dealer.  Low volume but I can probably get you a decent price.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 3:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48 or -48, 
seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was positive ground. 

How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground power 
source?

I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis? 





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Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

2018-11-26 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Yeah, the terminals are on the small side.  Also I usually use ferrules, and I 
think I have trouble getting them into the compression connectors on the Traco 
units.

 

If I remember right, I use 14 AWG stranded wire.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 2:32 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

Ken

 

How many AH of battery do you hang off one of these units?

 

Battery connections look very small…

 

Adam

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 1:35 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

What are you doing for battery backup?

 

Another option we use at most of our medium size towers now is the Traco 
TSP-BCM48 battery control module with a TSP360-148 power supply.  They do have 
a 600W version I think it is TSP-BCM48A and TSP600-148 but I haven’t used them.

 

I’m going to guess you have AC UPS’s with a big-ass battery string?

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 1:57 PM
To: AFMUG mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

Yeah, 1000 watts does seem like overkill for... the biggest power supply I've 
used on any of our towers is 480 watt, and I figured that should be more than 
double what we actually are using. I mostly use Meanwell 240 watt DIN rail 
mount power supplies these days.

 

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:08 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I assume you  want an AC/DC power supply not a switch?  Mean Well is a good 
brand, personally I prefer the HRP series especially if you putting it at a 
tower site because it is a high reliability model with a wider temperature 
range, the price difference won’t break the bank.  I tend to keep HRP-150 and 
HRP-300 supplies on the shelf.

 

Also that’s a pretty big power supply.  Do you really need that much power?  It 
makes sense to have some extra capacity to handle inrush current, but probably 
not more than double.  Power supplies tend to be inefficient when run way below 
max rating.  If you really need 1000 watts, maybe a rectifier shelf with N+1 
redundant power modules would be a better choice.  Or for the higher power 
consumption radios like licensed backhauls, some WISPs like to use a 100 or 
150W power supply for each radio.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 10:01 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

I have always had great luck with Meanwell products.  

 

From: Alex Davidson 

Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 8:11 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

Hey guys, we are stepping up to some 48v equipment on a tower and in looking 
into power supply switches. This seemed to be something that would work for us 
(Mean Well SE-1000-48). Any thoughts or pros and cons that yall have found with 
this unit. Any units of similarity that might work well in place of this one. 
Thanks

 

 

 


  _  


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[AFMUG] Eltek Valere J series -48 or +48

2018-11-26 Thread TJ Trout 
I'm looking at the Valere series and I can't seem determine if it's +48 or
-48, seems like it's +48 but I thought all the telecom stuff was positive
ground.

How do you go about powering negative ground loads from a positive ground
power source?

I'm assuming you can leave out the neutral and isolate the chassis?
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Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

2018-11-26 Thread Josh Baird 
We have lots of the TSP/BCM in the field.  We have anywhere from a string
of 4 12ah to 35ah batteries on them.  I want to say that we use 12AWG for
the battery connections into the BCM - but I would have to check.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 3:33 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:

> Ken
>
>
>
> How many AH of battery do you hang off one of these units?
>
>
>
> Battery connections look very small…
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 1:35 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>
>
>
> What are you doing for battery backup?
>
>
>
> Another option we use at most of our medium size towers now is the Traco
> TSP-BCM48 battery control module with a TSP360-148 power supply.  They do
> have a 600W version I think it is TSP-BCM48A and TSP600-148 but I haven’t
> used them.
>
>
>
> I’m going to guess you have AC UPS’s with a big-ass battery string?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 1:57 PM
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>
>
>
> Yeah, 1000 watts does seem like overkill for... the biggest power supply
> I've used on any of our towers is 480 watt, and I figured that should be
> more than double what we actually are using. I mostly use Meanwell 240 watt
> DIN rail mount power supplies these days.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:08 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I assume you  want an AC/DC power supply not a switch?  Mean Well is a
> good brand, personally I prefer the HRP series especially if you putting it
> at a tower site because it is a high reliability model with a wider
> temperature range, the price difference won’t break the bank.  I tend to
> keep HRP-150 and HRP-300 supplies on the shelf.
>
>
>
> Also that’s a pretty big power supply.  Do you really need that much
> power?  It makes sense to have some extra capacity to handle inrush
> current, but probably not more than double.  Power supplies tend to be
> inefficient when run way below max rating.  If you really need 1000 watts,
> maybe a rectifier shelf with N+1 redundant power modules would be a better
> choice.  Or for the higher power consumption radios like licensed
> backhauls, some WISPs like to use a 100 or 150W power supply for each radio.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 10:01 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>
>
>
> I have always had great luck with Meanwell products.
>
>
>
> *From:* Alex Davidson
>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 8:11 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>
>
>
> Hey guys, we are stepping up to some 48v equipment on a tower and in
> looking into power supply switches. This seemed to be something that would
> work for us (Mean Well SE-1000-48). Any thoughts or pros and cons that yall
> have found with this unit. Any units of similarity that might work well in
> place of this one. Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

2018-11-26 Thread Adam Moffett 

The BCM48A can take 10 gauge wire on the battery terminal.
I would assume the BCM48 is the same, but I don't have any of those.

Keep in mind the 360Watt unit at 48V means there can't be more than a 
7.5amp load.  On the 600Watt (BCM-48A) you can't have more than 12.5amp, 
and in fact there's a 12.5amp fuse on the battery circuit. So you don't 
need wire for a larger load than that.  #10 AWG is more than sufficient.


I use 100ah x 4, so 4800 watt-hour.  A site with 3 Trango Lynx and a 
Telrad Compact ran for 18 hours without utility power, so the thing does 
its job.


-Adam



On 11/26/2018 3:31 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:


Ken

How many AH of battery do you hang off one of these units?

Battery connections look very small…

Adam

*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 1:35 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

What are you doing for battery backup?

Another option we use at most of our medium size towers now is the 
Traco TSP-BCM48 battery control module with a TSP360-148 power 
supply.  They do have a 600W version I think it is TSP-BCM48A and 
TSP600-148 but I haven’t used them.


I’m going to guess you have AC UPS’s with a big-ass battery string?

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard

*Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 1:57 PM
*To:* AFMUG mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

Yeah, 1000 watts does seem like overkill for... the biggest power 
supply I've used on any of our towers is 480 watt, and I figured that 
should be more than double what we actually are using. I mostly use 
Meanwell 240 watt DIN rail mount power supplies these days.


On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:08 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


I assume you  want an AC/DC power supply not a switch? Mean Well
is a good brand, personally I prefer the HRP series especially if
you putting it at a tower site because it is a high reliability
model with a wider temperature range, the price difference won’t
break the bank.  I tend to keep HRP-150 and HRP-300 supplies on
the shelf.

Also that’s a pretty big power supply.  Do you really need that
much power?  It makes sense to have some extra capacity to handle
inrush current, but probably not more than double.  Power supplies
tend to be inefficient when run way below max rating.  If you
really need 1000 watts, maybe a rectifier shelf with N+1 redundant
power modules would be a better choice. Or for the higher power
consumption radios like licensed backhauls, some WISPs like to use
a 100 or 150W power supply for each radio.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2018 10:01 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

I have always had great luck with Meanwell products.

*From:*Alex Davidson

*Sent:*Friday, November 23, 2018 8:11 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com 

*Subject:*[AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

Hey guys, we are stepping up to some 48v equipment on a tower and
in looking into power supply switches. This seemed to be something
that would work for us (Mean Well SE-1000-48). Any thoughts or
pros and cons that yall have found with this unit. Any units of
similarity that might work well in place of this one. Thanks



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Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

2018-11-26 Thread SmarterBroadband 
Ken

 

How many AH of battery do you hang off one of these units?

 

Battery connections look very small…

 

Adam

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 1:35 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

What are you doing for battery backup?

 

Another option we use at most of our medium size towers now is the Traco 
TSP-BCM48 battery control module with a TSP360-148 power supply.  They do have 
a 600W version I think it is TSP-BCM48A and TSP600-148 but I haven’t used them.

 

I’m going to guess you have AC UPS’s with a big-ass battery string?

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 1:57 PM
To: AFMUG mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

Yeah, 1000 watts does seem like overkill for... the biggest power supply I've 
used on any of our towers is 480 watt, and I figured that should be more than 
double what we actually are using. I mostly use Meanwell 240 watt DIN rail 
mount power supplies these days.

 

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:08 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I assume you  want an AC/DC power supply not a switch?  Mean Well is a good 
brand, personally I prefer the HRP series especially if you putting it at a 
tower site because it is a high reliability model with a wider temperature 
range, the price difference won’t break the bank.  I tend to keep HRP-150 and 
HRP-300 supplies on the shelf.

 

Also that’s a pretty big power supply.  Do you really need that much power?  It 
makes sense to have some extra capacity to handle inrush current, but probably 
not more than double.  Power supplies tend to be inefficient when run way below 
max rating.  If you really need 1000 watts, maybe a rectifier shelf with N+1 
redundant power modules would be a better choice.  Or for the higher power 
consumption radios like licensed backhauls, some WISPs like to use a 100 or 
150W power supply for each radio.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 10:01 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

I have always had great luck with Meanwell products.  

 

From: Alex Davidson 

Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 8:11 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

 

Hey guys, we are stepping up to some 48v equipment on a tower and in looking 
into power supply switches. This seemed to be something that would work for us 
(Mean Well SE-1000-48). Any thoughts or pros and cons that yall have found with 
this unit. Any units of similarity that might work well in place of this one. 
Thanks

 

 

 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT How to communicate with a millennial

2018-11-26 Thread Robert Andrews 

The beatings will continue until moral improves...

On 11/26/2018 10:29 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I think if a given generation seems more professional or motivated than 
the following one, it might be because the slackers from the prior 
generation have already learned their lessons or filtered themselves out 
of the work force.  Do the slacker a favor and fire them.  Failure is 
how you learn.  If repeated failures do not result in enlightenment then 
they'll exit the work force.  Those who remain will look all the better.


That is to say, all the complaints about millenials were also made about 
Gen X, and were probably also made about hippies and baby boomers.  We 
can probably find a 1940-something op-ed decrying the laziness and moral 
bankruptcy of the self styled "greatest generation".


-Adam

On 11/26/2018 1:17 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

just shoot them

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 3:35 PM > wrote:


Get near enough to throw a rock or wrench at them.
Alternately enter their field of vision and start making wild
gestures.
Once you think they may have notice you, mouth the words “FUG YOU”
in an emphatic manner.
Once they have removed the devices from their ears you can try to 
commence speaking to them in a normal human manner.  But you have

to realize that the first sentence will largely be ignored as
their thought process are still booting up.
Once they have discarded the first packet, then you can try to
sending a legit message.  However if they are coffee or phone
derived they may continue to discard packets until they take a
drink of their fancy coffee or check instagram.
N.B.  If  you commence this process after quitting time, you will
have to repeat it the next day.  But not until about 1.5 hours
after they have arrived at work.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT How to communicate with a millennial

2018-11-26 Thread Adam Moffett 
I think if a given generation seems more professional or motivated than 
the following one, it might be because the slackers from the prior 
generation have already learned their lessons or filtered themselves out 
of the work force.  Do the slacker a favor and fire them.  Failure is 
how you learn.  If repeated failures do not result in enlightenment then 
they'll exit the work force.  Those who remain will look all the better.


That is to say, all the complaints about millenials were also made about 
Gen X, and were probably also made about hippies and baby boomers.  We 
can probably find a 1940-something op-ed decrying the laziness and moral 
bankruptcy of the self styled "greatest generation".


-Adam

On 11/26/2018 1:17 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

just shoot them

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 3:35 PM > wrote:


Get near enough to throw a rock or wrench at them.
Alternately enter their field of vision and start making wild
gestures.
Once you think they may have notice you, mouth the words “FUG YOU”
in an emphatic manner.
Once they have removed the devices from their ears you can try to 
commence speaking to them in a normal human manner.  But you have
to realize that the first sentence will largely be ignored as
their thought process are still booting up.
Once they have discarded the first packet, then you can try to
sending a legit message.  However if they are coffee or phone
derived they may continue to discard packets until they take a
drink of their fancy coffee or check instagram.
N.B.  If  you commence this process after quitting time, you will
have to repeat it the next day.  But not until about 1.5 hours
after they have arrived at work.
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Re: [AFMUG] Simple way to power cycle AC power remotely?

2018-11-26 Thread Steve Jones 
did ubnt get rid of their line of nifty gadgets like this

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:33 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> a.10-4
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Robert 
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 25, 2018 6:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Simple way to power cycle AC power remotely?
>
> There was a second option suggested, look down the email to the next link..
>
> On 11/25/18 4:11 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
> >
> > Mine loads as 69.99
> >
> > Sent from my smartphone
> >
> > - Reply message -
> > From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Simple way to power cycle AC power remotely?
> > Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2018 3:27 PM
> >
> > $7.96?
> > *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> > *Sent:* Sunday, November 25, 2018 2:20 PM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Simple way to power cycle AC power remotely?
> > Looks a little pricey but I guess if the shoe fits wear it:)
> > Sent from my smartphone
> > - Reply message -
> > From: "Jeremy" 
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Simple way to power cycle AC power remotely?
> > Date: Sun, Nov 25, 2018 2:58 PM
> > That relay looks like exactly what I was after. Thanks Chuck!
> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 1:51 PM  >
> > <
> https://www.amazon.com/ezOutlet2-Internet-Enabled-Android-Controllable/dp/B0792S1DGZ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8=1543178785=8-1-spons=ethernet+controlled+relay+switch=1>https://www.amazon.com/ezOutlet2-Internet-Enabled-Android-Controllable/dp/B0792S1DGZ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8=1543178785=8-1-spons=ethernet+controlled+relay+switch=1
> 
> > Or,
> > <
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13015>https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13015
> > use the POE to turn it on
> > *From:* Jeremy
> > *Sent:* Sunday, November 25, 2018 1:42 PM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Simple way to power cycle AC power remotely?
> > This is actually a issue with my boiler, but I know that we as WISPs
> > have been coming up with creative ways to power cycle devices for as
> > long as electronic gear has locked up (since the beginning).
> > So, I have a boiler for my hydronic heat system which is
> > intermittently locking up due to issues with the pressure in the
> > propane system (the underground main is 3/8" soft copper.another
> > project for next Spring). When it locks up it needs to be reset in
> > order to restart or the remote location gets cold and pipes can
> > potentially freeze. The boiler has an app and a router deal that
> > will notify me when the boiler errors out, but it is lacking the
> > 'reset' functionality that is available on the local panel.
> > I have Ethernet to the boiler, and a Netonix in the same room. I
> > thought about using the Netonix POE to trigger a relay to cycle the
> > AC, but I'm not sure what relay to use or if this is even the best
> > bet. Perhaps there is a simple network-connected din-mount device
> > or something that works well for this also. I could throw in a
> > Tripp-Lite power controller, but I'd prefer something smaller, and
> > the AC is currently connected inside of a junction box. I don't
> > really want to bring the power out of the box to install an outlet
> > and to put a power end on the cable, so I am looking for a way to
> > connect a device in-line that can interrupt the AC main in the
> > junction box.
> > Anyone have any ideas for something like this? I imagine that you
> > have all done this a hundred different ways, so let's hear 'em!
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> 
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
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> >
> > 
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> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Solar panel efficiency

2018-11-26 Thread Steve Jones 
There were about 9500 homes destroyed in the california wildfires. Thats
9500 new mandated solar installations in a short period. That will bump
demand, with tarrifs supply will be hopefully limited. maybe this will get
some funds floated into 43% efficiency research

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:43 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> This speaks to that:
> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/11/self-assembled-carbon-nanotube-antennas-for-solar-power-revolution.html
>
> They say they have already achieved 43% efficiency, which is close to
> double the photon conversion efficiency.
>
> Will be interesting to watch.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 11/25/2018 2:30 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I would think that they would have an issue with polarization and
> wavelength.  Broad band of wavelengths in sunlight at random
> polarizations.  I guess mini bow tie antennas could handle the broadband
> part.  I wonder what the electric field strength is of sunlight.  If it was
> not high enough it would not be rectifiable.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 25, 2018 3:09 PM
> *To:* AFMUG
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: Solar panel efficiency
>
>
>
>
> Most of you know this, but current technology silicon solar panels are
> near their peak efficiency at 20-25 % efficiency. There is a speculated
> peak efficiency of around 29%, but we have no idea whether we can reach it
> or not. The big issue is that only a fraction of the photons that hit the
> silicon substrate get electrons to move (they create electron holes in
> fact).
>
> However... What if we approach the energy conversion a different way. We
> know from college (high school?) physics that light can be treated as
> particles (photons), but it can also be treated as electromagnetic waves.
> What if we could build tiny antennas that were sensitive to these waves?
> What could we get for efficiency then? These folks think they could get 90%
> efficiency, and they've already demonstrated > 40% efficiency. Carbon
> nano-tubes.
>
> Article 1
> 
>
> Article 2
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> --
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT How to communicate with a millennial

2018-11-26 Thread Steve Jones 
just shoot them

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 3:35 PM  wrote:

> Get near enough to throw a rock or wrench at them.
>
> Alternately enter their field of vision and start making wild gestures.
>
> Once you think they may have notice you, mouth the words “FUG YOU” in an
> emphatic manner.
>
> Once they have removed the devices from their ears you can try to
> commence speaking to them in a normal human manner.  But you have to
> realize that the first sentence will largely be ignored as their thought
> process are still booting up.
>
> Once they have discarded the first packet, then you can try to sending a
> legit message.  However if they are coffee or phone derived they may
> continue to discard packets until they take a drink of their fancy coffee
> or check instagram.
>
> N.B.  If  you commence this process after quitting time, you will have to
> repeat it the next day.  But not until about 1.5 hours after they have
> arrived at work.
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Server Hardware

2018-11-26 Thread Adam Moffett 
That's good input.  In the past I've always gone to used servers as the 
secondary market is always flush with gently used Dell and HP.

In this case I have reasons to look for new.

On 11/26/2018 11:43 AM, Dennis Burgess via AF wrote:

You can purchase a 24 core xeon box for 250-300 ish on ebay.  RAM is king 
though.

With products like Proxmox, its hard to identify what one is better.  I would 
state that as long as you have data backups then get smaller boxes with huge 
CPU and RAM, where your data comes from don't matter as long as it has 
redundancy.


Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 10:01 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Server Hardware



On 11/26/2018 10:55 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

It's been a few years since I last went on this journey.

(1) Will I get better prices on Dell from a VAR than I see on the Dell
website?

(2) I've heard Supermicro touted as a value brand, but when I spec
similar Supermicro and Dell systems Dell comes out cheaper.  Am I
missing something?

(3) Do you prefer a whole lot of cheap systems, or a small number of
really nice ones?  I have reasons to like the latter, but I'm ready to
be swayed.

If you're wondering, the Intel Atom C3850 is what has me reconsidering on item 
3. You can get 12 cores in a sub $1,000 box.

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Re: [AFMUG] Server Hardware

2018-11-26 Thread Dennis Burgess via AF 
You can purchase a 24 core xeon box for 250-300 ish on ebay.  RAM is king 
though.  

With products like Proxmox, its hard to identify what one is better.  I would 
state that as long as you have data backups then get smaller boxes with huge 
CPU and RAM, where your data comes from don't matter as long as it has 
redundancy.  


Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 10:01 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Server Hardware



On 11/26/2018 10:55 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> It's been a few years since I last went on this journey.
>
> (1) Will I get better prices on Dell from a VAR than I see on the Dell 
> website?
>
> (2) I've heard Supermicro touted as a value brand, but when I spec 
> similar Supermicro and Dell systems Dell comes out cheaper.  Am I 
> missing something?
>
> (3) Do you prefer a whole lot of cheap systems, or a small number of 
> really nice ones?  I have reasons to like the latter, but I'm ready to 
> be swayed.

If you're wondering, the Intel Atom C3850 is what has me reconsidering on item 
3. You can get 12 cores in a sub $1,000 box.

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Re: [AFMUG] Server Hardware

2018-11-26 Thread Adam Moffett 



On 11/26/2018 10:55 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

It's been a few years since I last went on this journey.

(1) Will I get better prices on Dell from a VAR than I see on the Dell 
website?


(2) I've heard Supermicro touted as a value brand, but when I spec 
similar Supermicro and Dell systems Dell comes out cheaper.  Am I 
missing something?


(3) Do you prefer a whole lot of cheap systems, or a small number of 
really nice ones?  I have reasons to like the latter, but I'm ready to 
be swayed.


If you're wondering, the Intel Atom C3850 is what has me reconsidering 
on item 3. You can get 12 cores in a sub $1,000 box.


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[AFMUG] Server Hardware

2018-11-26 Thread Adam Moffett 

It's been a few years since I last went on this journey.

(1) Will I get better prices on Dell from a VAR than I see on the Dell 
website?


(2) I've heard Supermicro touted as a value brand, but when I spec 
similar Supermicro and Dell systems Dell comes out cheaper.  Am I 
missing something?


(3) Do you prefer a whole lot of cheap systems, or a small number of 
really nice ones?  I have reasons to like the latter, but I'm ready to 
be swayed.


-Adam


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Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches

2018-11-26 Thread Mark Radabaugh 
I used to do a lot of weird stuff to get sites to work with -48V DC with +48V 
equipment involving isolated grounding.   It all works as long as you know what 
you are doing and you are the only one who works on it.  It just doesn’t scale 
well.Far cheaper in the long run to put in an isolated DC/DC convertor, 
mark the -48V buss, the +48V buss, and the +24V buss and hook up equipment to 
that its ground reference is what it expects it to be.  The techs at the sites 
don’t have to know as much and are much less likely to blow something up wiring 
it backward or accidentally ground the +48 to the -48 through the internal 
wiring or some piece of equipment.

Mark

> On Nov 25, 2018, at 8:08 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> That said, there is always a way to give the equipment the power it wants.  
> Even if you have a mix of equipment at a site that wants +24, -48 and +48, 
> it’s just some extra power supplies or DC-DC converters and maybe some 
> reduced power conversion efficiency.  I still have a lot of sites with 24V to 
> 24V DC-DC converters because I wasn’t sure some Ubiquiti or Mikrotik 
> equipment would run off 27V from the batteries and I needed regulated 24V.  
> Maybe it would have been OK, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn’t a 
> lot of money and space to stick a little Traco DIN rail DC-DC converter in 
> the cabinet.  Same thing with 24VDC sites that I upgraded with a licensed 
> backhaul that wanted 48V so I bolted in a Mean Well RSD.  I think I’d buy 
> some extra electronics before I’d rely on plywood insulators.  But then you 
> gotta do what you gotta do to make it work, and it’s hard to argue if it 
> works.
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 3:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>  
> One of the larger problems are that there are so many people working in this 
> field that do not have a clear understanding of what –48 and ground 
> referenced power supplies actually mean.  I answer questions about this every 
> single week from customers using our POE injectors.  
>  
> Almost any source or load will work if the voltage is right.  You may have to 
> put insulators between your antenna and the tower but you can generally 
> figure out something that will work.  I have mounted solar charge controllers 
> on plywood to isolate the from grounds in –48 VDC off grid applications.  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 2:03 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>  
> The 450i and 450m don't really care about polarity.   That's one of the 
> reasons that the cambium sync products we sell work with either voltage.   
> The older radios expected +24v with the negative side grounded.
>  
> Other radios can be hard to track down.   I can confirm that many nowadays 
> use an isolated supply inside so that they don't care if one of the rails are 
> grounded as long as you respect the voltage and polarity into the radio.  But 
> others are very much incompatible with either positive or negative  ground 
> systems. 
>  
>  
>  
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 10:11 AM Ken Hohhof   wrote:
>> Some WISP equipment like Packetflux started with +24V and extended the 
>> voltage range so now it can be powered via +48/56V.
>>  
>> It’s a little difficult to pin down some radios, it seems like most 802.3af 
>> equipment is actually floating and as long as you observe polarity, either 
>> side of the power supply can be grounded.  Documentation usually doesn’t 
>> say.  Also some Mikrotik equipment may say -48V in the spec sheet but the 
>> terminals are just labeled + and – and seems to be floating just like 
>> 802.3af.  Cambium/Ceragon has a DC powered POE that seems happy with +24, 
>> -48 or +48 input.  My belief has always been that Cambium radios like 450i 
>> and 450m want +48V POE but maybe they don’t care.  The Cambium POE brick 
>> actually has a 2 pin AC power cord and no ground terminal, implying that the 
>> power source can be floating.  I wish manufacturers weren’t so vague about 
>> this.
>>  
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 9:41 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>>  
>> I guess my experience is the reverse.  Having spent 40 years in telecom, 
>> seems that almost everything rack mounted is –48 if you want DC power.  I 
>> don’t recall ever finding +48 rack mounted telecom equipment.  
>>  
>> From: Ken Hohhof 
>> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 7:43 AM
>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48v Power Supply Switches
>>  
>> I have one site with an Eltek/Valere system and it does its job quite 
>> nicely,