Re: [AFMUG] corrective optics

[Ryan Ray]

KPP seems to have a reflector for the 450b mid gain. I'd be interested to
see what the performance is like on that. No spec numbers, no more info
than that facebook post. I can't even find it on the website.

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fkpperformanceantennas%2Fposts%2F535221240337947



On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 7:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> In another thread, Mark Radabaugh posted:
>
>
>
> “For your next product….   Corrective optics for 450B high gain CPE!”
>
>
>
> Mark, I’m not sure if you were serious, I suspect yes.
>
>
>
> I know it’s frustrating that the antenna gain is lower than the old
> reflector dish, Cambium dropped the number on the spec sheet to 24 dBi, but
> I think even that is optimistic, I think it’s about 2 dB less than the old
> combo which was supposed to be 25 dBi.  Lower antenna gain is going the
> wrong way!  I don’t care if it does have higher xmt power, that does
> nothing for the downstream direction.
>
>
>
> In calling for corrective optics, do you have any info or even a gut feel
> for whether the problem is in the feed or the dish?  Is it as simple as the
> dish is just too small?
>
>
>
> Also, is it just the gain is low, or does the 450b hi gain have other
> issues?  Like poor F/B or sidelobe performance or something?
>
>
>
> I know the 450b mid-gain is frustrating because apparently Cambium doesn’t
> think a tight vertical pattern is important.  I keep wondering if a top and
> bottom flap like on the old 2.4 Stingers would correct that.
>
>
>
> Cambium seems to be sharing antenna designs between ePMP and 450, so the
> same issues probably exist in the corresponding ePMP products.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] corrective optics

[Ken Hohhof]

In another thread, Mark Radabaugh posted:

 

"For your next product..   Corrective optics for 450B high gain CPE!"

 

Mark, I'm not sure if you were serious, I suspect yes.

 

I know it's frustrating that the antenna gain is lower than the old
reflector dish, Cambium dropped the number on the spec sheet to 24 dBi, but
I think even that is optimistic, I think it's about 2 dB less than the old
combo which was supposed to be 25 dBi.  Lower antenna gain is going the
wrong way!  I don't care if it does have higher xmt power, that does nothing
for the downstream direction.

 

In calling for corrective optics, do you have any info or even a gut feel
for whether the problem is in the feed or the dish?  Is it as simple as the
dish is just too small?

 

Also, is it just the gain is low, or does the 450b hi gain have other
issues?  Like poor F/B or sidelobe performance or something?

 

I know the 450b mid-gain is frustrating because apparently Cambium doesn't
think a tight vertical pattern is important.  I keep wondering if a top and
bottom flap like on the old 2.4 Stingers would correct that.

 

Cambium seems to be sharing antenna designs between ePMP and 450, so the
same issues probably exist in the corresponding ePMP products.

-- 
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[AFMUG] [RANT]: Printing from Web Browsers

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

My rant for today:

After many many years of us having web browsers, why can't they fix
these so when I click on "print" I get something which looks like what
is on the screen, instead of a half-cut-off, missing data, formatted
weirdly, and totally unusable printout?

Yes, I know there are some plugins/other tools which make this easier,
but why in the world can't the web browser just do the right thing?

-- 
- Forrest

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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Seth Mattinen]

On 3/27/19 12:19 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

$200/month would pay for a lot of fiber...



You must not live somewhere where the ground is made of rock.

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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[fiberrun]

$200/month would pay for a lot of fiber...

 

 

Jared

 

Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019
From: "Bill Prince" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now



We had a repair guy out here the other day, and in the coarse of our conversation he mentioned that his cable bill is $200/month. These days, 5 months of your cable bill will pay for a decent computer to do whatever. 12 months will get you a premium gaming machine.

 

bp




On 3/27/2019 8:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:




Yeah, everything is a subscription now.  Because why settle for a one-time sale when you can get a perpetual revenue stream.

 

I guess they want to capture the mobile device market.

 

Plus make games more like videos, where you can just rent titles rather than make the decision to buy one.

 

Does this really make it possible to play a high end game on a phone?  And if so, wouldn’t it run the battery down pretty fast?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:59 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

 


Well, I imagine, the longterm goal is that instead of needing to convince somebody to buy a $1000 PC, or even a $400 game console and $60 for every game, you can sell them a $50 box, that they might already have, and charge them a subscription fee.


 



On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 9:38 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:




I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the graphics processing to the cloud meanswhat?

I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a data center where compute loads can be managed.

Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto the network?  What am I not seeing?

-Adam
 


On 3/27/2019 10:04 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:




> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

 

Holy bandwidth, Batman!

 

It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.  Not just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb or a 3 gallon toilet.

 

Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important thing (and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone faster and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of leaving the lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If someone suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed at.  So don’t use a  game console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of video over the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to join the game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the people putting umpteen 1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in their living room watching them … over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to every screen in the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to room … which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each screen gets its own private stream over the Internet, even if it’s the same show.

 

I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces me we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.

 

 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now



 

Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.

 

Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

 

Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.

 

This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting graphics to your local screen.


 


 


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-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Fair warning

[SmarterBroadband]

Song in Text form…..

 

Customer:
Morning,

Waitress:
Morning.

Customer:
What have you got?

Waitress:
Well, there's egg and bacon,
Egg sausage and bacon
Egg and spam
Egg, bacon and spam
Egg, bacon, sausage and spam
Spam, bacon, sausage and spam
Spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam
Spam, sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam tomato and spam
Spam, spam, spam, egg and spam
Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.

(Choir: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam! Lovely Spam! Lovely Spam!)

Or Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce,
Served in a Provençale manner with shallots and aubergines,
Garnished with truffle pâté, brandy and a fried egg on top and Spam

Wife:
Have you got anything without spam?

Waitress:
Well, the spam, eggs, sausage and spam
That's not got much spam in it

Wife:
I don't want any spam!

Customer:
Why can't she have eggs, bacon, spam and sausage?

Wife:
That's got spam in it!

Customer:
Hasn't got much spam in it as spam, eggs, sausage and spam has it?

(Choir: Spam! Spam! Spam!...)

Wife:
Could you do me eggs, bacon, spam and sausage without the spam, then?

Waitress:
Bleeeh!

Wife:
What do you mean 'Bleh'? I don't like spam!

(Choir: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!)

Waitress (to choir):
Shut up!

(Choir: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!)

Waitress:
Shut Up! Bloody Vikings!
You can't have egg, bacon, spam and sausage without the spam.

Wife:
I don't like spam!

Customer:
Shush dear, don't have a fuss. I'll have your spam. I love it,
I'm having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans,
Spam, spam, spam, and spam!

(Choir: Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam! Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!)

Waitress:
Shut Up! Baked beans are off.

Customer:
Well, could I have her spam instead of the baked beans then?

Waitress:
You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
Spam and spam?

Choir (intervening):
Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam.
Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!
Spam spam spam spam!

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 5:03 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Fair warning

 

 

How much spam would you like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OVKXIfrGJE

 

bp

 

On 3/26/2019 3:55 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

I think you grandfathered in many years ago.  

We will reserve an extra helping for you.  

 

From: Chuck Macenski 

Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:52 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Fair warning

 

Hey! I didn't see these terms when I signed up. What if I want to get more spam?

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 3:44 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

 

 

From: ch...@wbmfg.com   

Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 2:42 PM

To: ch...@wbmfg.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning

 

We will try this again:



 

From: ch...@wbmfg.com   

Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 2:13 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning

 

Thanks,

Mail Chimp received a direct complaint today from one of our list subscribers.

Not too long after the complaint, we had a new subscriber join the list.  

I asked him if, during the subscription process, anything was said about me 
sending out spam now and then.

 

He said he received the following from the list serv:

 



Not sure what more I can do.  I went to Mail Chimp several years ago so that 
you can have the option of getting my spam or not but staying on the list.  
This particular person that complained to me today and (presumably to Mail 
Chimp) prefers we spam the list instead.  

I think this is the first complaint that Mail Chimp has ever received about me. 
 

I guess if they boot me, I will have to spam the list... 

 

From: Albert J Rachide 

Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 1:59 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning

 

Keep up the good work! 

 

Al Rachide
Pink Hill, NC

 

 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 2:07 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

As all of the old timers know, I advertise my products here.  Forrest is free 
to do so as well.  My dealers too.   And we open it up on Friday mornings to 
everyone as a swap meet.  When I send things there days I use mailchimp for a 
variety of reasons.  Plus it allows you to opt out of my spam and still be on 
this list for all the rest of the subject matter.  It appears that some are 
unaware.  I will have to double check the list subscription process to make 
sure this is made clear to new subs here.  Sorry to those that think I am 
mining the list for spam purposes.  It is worse than that actually as I own the 
domain and have always used it and the AF shows to market my junk.  I guess I 
need to make it more clear when subscribing.

Sent from my 

Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Sterling Jacobson]

Haha, 5G is wireless, to a couple hundred feet where it again meets/needs fiber.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 8:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

But didn't you hear? 5G is a replacement for hard wired Internet connections.

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

Holy bandwidth, Batman!

It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were electricity 
and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.  Not just 
encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb or a 3 gallon 
toilet.

Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important thing 
(and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone faster and 
faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of leaving the 
lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If someone suggested ways 
to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed at.  So don’t use a  game 
console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of video over the 
Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to join the game, each with 
their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the people putting umpteen 1080p 
cameras around their house and then sitting in their living room watching them 
… over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to every screen in the house so 
it’s always on as you walk from room to room … which was not wasteful when we 
used broadcast TV, but now each screen gets its own private stream over the 
Internet, even if it’s the same show.

I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation 
movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces me we 
need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.

Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.

This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting 
graphics to your local screen.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Bill Prince]

  
  
We had a repair guy out here the other day, and in the coarse of
  our conversation he mentioned that his cable bill is $200/month.
  These days, 5 months of your cable bill will pay for a decent
  computer to do whatever. 12 months will get you a premium gaming
  machine.


bp



On 3/27/2019 8:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
Yeah, everything is a subscription now. 
  Because why settle for a one-time sale when you can get a
  perpetual revenue stream.
 
I guess they want to capture the mobile
  device market.
 
Plus make games more like videos, where you
  can just rent titles rather than make the decision to buy one.
 
Does this really make it possible to play a
  high end game on a phone?  And if so, wouldn’t it run the
  battery down pretty fast?
 
 
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Mathew
  Howard
  Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:59 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now
 

  Well, I imagine, the longterm goal is
that instead of needing to convince somebody to buy a $1000
PC, or even a $400 game console and $60 for every game, you
can sell them a $50 box, that they might already have, and
charge them a subscription fee.

 

  
On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 9:38 AM Adam
  Moffett 
  wrote:
  
  

  I was
just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving
the graphics processing to the cloud meanswhat? 

I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the
computation to a data center where compute loads can be
managed.

Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that
much stuff onto the network?  What am I not seeing?

-Adam


  
On 3/27/2019 10:04 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:
  
  

  >
Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my
system.
   
  Holy
bandwidth, Batman!
   
  It
used to be the most important things to life as we
know it were electricity and water, and we were
encouraged to conserve both of them.  Not just
encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an
incandescent bulb or a 3 gallon toilet.
   
  Now
it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the
most important thing (and don’t forget 5G).  It is a
national emergency to get everyone faster and faster
Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the
equivalent of leaving the lights on and the water
running when we’re not home.  If someone suggested
ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be
laughed at.  So don’t use a  game console, use one
somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of video over
the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids
to join the game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps
stream.  Just like all the people putting umpteen
1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in
their living room watching them … over the
Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to every screen in
the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to
room … which was not wasteful when we used broadcast
TV, but now each screen gets its own private stream
over the Internet, even if it’s the same show.
   
  I
suspect this will never change, there will be no
bandwidth conservation movement, we will just keep
using more and more and more.  That convinces me we
need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.
   
   
  

  From:
AF 
On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 

Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Mathew Howard]

Yup, it makes sense from their point of view... it potentially opens up a
much larger market.

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 10:30 AM  wrote:

> Money. The answer is always money.
>
> Gaming is a 138 billion dollar market. Over half of that is mobile gaming.
> The majority of that in turn is casual gaming, particularly free to play
> games.
>
> All this game streaming tech is an attempt to get at those casual gamers
> that won't build gaming PCs or buy consoles. The idea is to remove barriers
> to adoption and remove friction from on-boarding gamers and bilk them for
> cash.
>
> If this happens to cause some pain to ISPs then that's just collateral
> damage.
>
> Jared
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 27, 2019
> *From:* "Adam Moffett" 
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now
> I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the graphics
> processing to the cloud meanswhat?
>
> I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
> It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a
> data center where compute loads can be managed.
>
> Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto
> the network?  What am I not seeing?
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 3/27/2019, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> > Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>
>
>
> Holy bandwidth, Batman!
>
>
>
> It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were
> electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.
> Not just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb
> or a 3 gallon toilet.
>
>
>
> Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important
> thing (and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone
> faster and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of
> leaving the lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If
> someone suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed
> at.  So don’t use a  game console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50
> Mbps of video over the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to
> join the game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the
> people putting umpteen 1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in
> their living room watching them … over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News
> to every screen in the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to
> room … which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each
> screen gets its own private stream over the Internet, even if it’s the same
> show.
>
>
>
> I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation
> movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces
> me we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now
>
>
>
> Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.
>
>
>
> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>
>
>
> Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.
>
>
>
> This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting
> graphics to your local screen.
>
>
>
> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Ken Hohhof]

With the advances in AI, why is it necessary to  play against people?

Seems like you could play a console game against an AI opponent with skill
level of your choosing, and not even need the Internet.

Except they are making all the virtual assistant AI stuff like Alexa cloud
based also.  Everyone wants to lock you into a subscription, so they get a
revenue stream, not a one time sale.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:56 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

On 3/27/19 7:42 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> I am seeing opportunity for selling premium fiber service.


I dunno about that. People that can't necessarily afford to spend money on
hardware that would be attracted to a low cost thin client probably can't
justify a lot on internet, either.

Then again some people I know who are just living paycheck to paycheck spend
way too much money on cable TV.

--
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[fiberrun]

Money. The answer is always money.

 

Gaming is a 138 billion dollar market. Over half of that is mobile gaming. The majority of that in turn is casual gaming, particularly free to play games.

 

All this game streaming tech is an attempt to get at those casual gamers that won't build gaming PCs or buy consoles. The idea is to remove barriers to adoption and remove friction from on-boarding gamers and bilk them for cash.

 

If this happens to cause some pain to ISPs then that's just collateral damage.

 

Jared

Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019
From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now


I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the graphics processing to the cloud meanswhat?

I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a data center where compute loads can be managed.

Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto the network?  What am I not seeing?

-Adam

 
On 3/27/2019, Ken Hohhof wrote:




> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

 

Holy bandwidth, Batman!

 

It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.  Not just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb or a 3 gallon toilet.

 

Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important thing (and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone faster and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of leaving the lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If someone suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed at.  So don’t use a  game console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of video over the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to join the game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the people putting umpteen 1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in their living room watching them … over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to every screen in the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to room … which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each screen gets its own private stream over the Internet, even if it’s the same show.

 

I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces me we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.

 

 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now



 

Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.

 

Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

 

Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.

 

This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting graphics to your local screen.

 

 


-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Ken Hohhof]

Yeah, everything is a subscription now.  Because why settle for a one-time sale 
when you can get a perpetual revenue stream.

 

I guess they want to capture the mobile device market.

 

Plus make games more like videos, where you can just rent titles rather than 
make the decision to buy one.

 

Does this really make it possible to play a high end game on a phone?  And if 
so, wouldn’t it run the battery down pretty fast?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:59 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

 

Well, I imagine, the longterm goal is that instead of needing to convince 
somebody to buy a $1000 PC, or even a $400 game console and $60 for every game, 
you can sell them a $50 box, that they might already have, and charge them a 
subscription fee.

 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 9:38 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the graphics 
processing to the cloud meanswhat? 

I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a data 
center where compute loads can be managed.

Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto the 
network?  What am I not seeing?

-Adam



On 3/27/2019 10:04 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

 

Holy bandwidth, Batman!

 

It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were electricity 
and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.  Not just 
encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb or a 3 gallon 
toilet.

 

Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important thing 
(and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone faster and 
faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of leaving the 
lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If someone suggested ways 
to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed at.  So don’t use a  game 
console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of video over the 
Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to join the game, each with 
their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the people putting umpteen 1080p 
cameras around their house and then sitting in their living room watching them 
… over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to every screen in the house so 
it’s always on as you walk from room to room … which was not wasteful when we 
used broadcast TV, but now each screen gets its own private stream over the 
Internet, even if it’s the same show.

 

I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation 
movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces me we 
need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

 

Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.

 

Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

 

Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.

 

This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting 
graphics to your local screen.

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Cassidy B. Larson]

When the hardware has idle seconds in the cloud they can mine cryptocurrency! 


> On Mar 27, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the graphics 
> processing to the cloud meanswhat? 
> 
> I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
> It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a data 
> center where compute loads can be managed.
> 
> Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto the 
> network?  What am I not seeing?
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> On 3/27/2019 10:04 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> > Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>>  
>> Holy bandwidth, Batman!
>>  
>> It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were 
>> electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.  Not 
>> just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb or a 
>> 3 gallon toilet.
>>  
>> Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important thing 
>> (and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone faster 
>> and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of leaving 
>> the lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If someone 
>> suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed at.  So 
>> don’t use a  game console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of 
>> video over the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to join the 
>> game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the people 
>> putting umpteen 1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in their 
>> living room watching them … over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to 
>> every screen in the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to room … 
>> which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each screen gets 
>> its own private stream over the Internet, even if it’s the same show.
>>  
>> I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation 
>> movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces me 
>> we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF   On 
>> Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
>> 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now
>>  
>> Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.
>>  
>> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>>  
>> Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.
>>  
>> This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting 
>> graphics to your local screen.
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Mathew Howard]

Well, I imagine, the longterm goal is that instead of needing to convince
somebody to buy a $1000 PC, or even a $400 game console and $60 for every
game, you can sell them a $50 box, that they might already have, and charge
them a subscription fee.

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 9:38 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the graphics
> processing to the cloud meanswhat?
>
> I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
> It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a
> data center where compute loads can be managed.
>
> Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto
> the network?  What am I not seeing?
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 3/27/2019 10:04 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> > Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>
>
>
> Holy bandwidth, Batman!
>
>
>
> It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were
> electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.
> Not just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb
> or a 3 gallon toilet.
>
>
>
> Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important
> thing (and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone
> faster and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of
> leaving the lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If
> someone suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed
> at.  So don’t use a  game console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50
> Mbps of video over the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to
> join the game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the
> people putting umpteen 1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in
> their living room watching them … over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News
> to every screen in the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to
> room … which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each
> screen gets its own private stream over the Internet, even if it’s the same
> show.
>
>
>
> I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation
> movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces
> me we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now
>
>
>
> Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.
>
>
>
> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>
>
>
> Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.
>
>
>
> This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting
> graphics to your local screen.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Seth Mattinen]

On 3/27/19 7:42 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I am seeing opportunity for selling premium fiber service.



I dunno about that. People that can't necessarily afford to spend money 
on hardware that would be attracted to a low cost thin client probably 
can't justify a lot on internet, either.


Then again some people I know who are just living paycheck to paycheck 
spend way too much money on cable TV.


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Re: [AFMUG] [BULK] Re: Nvidia Geforce Now

[Joe Novak]

I think the end game is to tap into that market of users that have generic
intel/amd laptops on the lower end. This is a market that is harder to
touch for these companies, because well they don't spend much on
hardware, or don't have much to spend on hardware but still want to game.
They seem to think this is the avenue. I have already had a hard enough
time getting this to work in my house, with the steambox thingy, let alone
adding in internet latency and crappy laptops with poor wireless
connections. I had everything hardwired and it still was a poor experience.

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 9:38 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the graphics
> processing to the cloud meanswhat?
>
> I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
> It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a
> data center where compute loads can be managed.
>
> Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto
> the network?  What am I not seeing?
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 3/27/2019 10:04 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> > Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>
>
>
> Holy bandwidth, Batman!
>
>
>
> It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were
> electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.
> Not just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb
> or a 3 gallon toilet.
>
>
>
> Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important
> thing (and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone
> faster and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of
> leaving the lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If
> someone suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed
> at.  So don’t use a  game console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50
> Mbps of video over the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to
> join the game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the
> people putting umpteen 1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in
> their living room watching them … over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News
> to every screen in the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to
> room … which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each
> screen gets its own private stream over the Internet, even if it’s the same
> show.
>
>
>
> I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation
> movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces
> me we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now
>
>
>
> Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.
>
>
>
> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>
>
>
> Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.
>
>
>
> This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting
> graphics to your local screen.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[chuck]

I am seeing opportunity for selling premium fiber service.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 8:37 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the graphics 
processing to the cloud meanswhat? 

I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a data 
center where compute loads can be managed.

Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto the 
network?  What am I not seeing?

-Adam



On 3/27/2019 10:04 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  > Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

   

  Holy bandwidth, Batman!

   

  It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were 
electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.  Not 
just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb or a 3 
gallon toilet.

   

  Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important thing 
(and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone faster and 
faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of leaving the 
lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If someone suggested ways 
to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed at.  So don’t use a  game 
console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of video over the 
Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to join the game, each with 
their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the people putting umpteen 1080p 
cameras around their house and then sitting in their living room watching them 
… over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to every screen in the house so 
it’s always on as you walk from room to room … which was not wasteful when we 
used broadcast TV, but now each screen gets its own private stream over the 
Internet, even if it’s the same show.

   

  I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation 
movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces me we 
need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
  Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

   

  Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.

   

  Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

   

  Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.

   

  This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting 
graphics to your local screen.


   





-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Adam Moffett]

I was just sitting here wondering what the reason is.  Moving the 
graphics processing to the cloud meanswhat?


I suppose you can play good games on crummy hardware.
It's possible there's an energy savings in moving the computation to a 
data center where compute loads can be managed.


Are those reasons really compelling enough to push that much stuff onto 
the network?  What am I not seeing?


-Adam


On 3/27/2019 10:04 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

Holy bandwidth, Batman!

It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were 
electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of 
them.  Not just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an 
incandescent bulb or a 3 gallon toilet.


Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important 
thing (and don’t forget 5G). It is a national emergency to get 
everyone faster and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the 
equivalent of leaving the lights on and the water running when we’re 
not home.  If someone suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, 
he would be laughed at.  So don’t use a  game console, use one 
somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of video over the Internet to 
your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to join the game, each with their 
own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the people putting umpteen 1080p 
cameras around their house and then sitting in their living room 
watching them … over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to every 
screen in the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to room … 
which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each screen 
gets its own private stream over the Internet, even if it’s the same show.


I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth 
conservation movement, we will just keep using more and more and 
more.  That convinces me we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.

Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.

This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely 
transmitting graphics to your local screen.





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Jason McKemie]

But didn't you hear? 5G is a replacement for hard wired Internet
connections.

On Wednesday, March 27, 2019, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> > Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>
>
>
> Holy bandwidth, Batman!
>
>
>
> It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were
> electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.
> Not just encouraged, mandated.  Don’t get caught with an incandescent bulb
> or a 3 gallon toilet.
>
>
>
> Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important
> thing (and don’t forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone
> faster and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of
> leaving the lights on and the water running when we’re not home.  If
> someone suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed
> at.  So don’t use a  game console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50
> Mbps of video over the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to
> join the game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the
> people putting umpteen 1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in
> their living room watching them … over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News
> to every screen in the house so it’s always on as you walk from room to
> room … which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each
> screen gets its own private stream over the Internet, even if it’s the same
> show.
>
>
>
> I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation
> movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces
> me we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I’m wrong.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now
>
>
>
> Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.
>
>
>
> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.
>
>
>
> Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.
>
>
>
> This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting
> graphics to your local screen.
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

[Ken Hohhof]

> Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

 

Holy bandwidth, Batman!

 

It used to be the most important things to life as we know it were
electricity and water, and we were encouraged to conserve both of them.  Not
just encouraged, mandated.  Don't get caught with an incandescent bulb or a
3 gallon toilet.

 

Now it seems everyone is telling us the Internet is the most important thing
(and don't forget 5G).  It is a national emergency to get everyone faster
and faster Internet.  Yet we are encouraged to do the equivalent of leaving
the lights on and the water running when we're not home.  If someone
suggested ways to conserve Internet bandwidth, he would be laughed at.  So
don't use a  game console, use one somewhere else and stream 40-50 Mbps of
video over the Internet to your screen.  Maybe get your 3 kids to join the
game, each with their own 40-50 Mbps stream.  Just like all the people
putting umpteen 1080p cameras around their house and then sitting in their
living room watching them . over the Internet.  Or streaming Fox News to
every screen in the house so it's always on as you walk from room to room .
which was not wasteful when we used broadcast TV, but now each screen gets
its own private stream over the Internet, even if it's the same show.

 

I suspect this will never change, there will be no bandwidth conservation
movement, we will just keep using more and more and more.  That convinces me
we need fiber not 5G, but apparently I'm wrong.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 11:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Nvidia Geforce Now

 

Just got accepted to the general beta for the new Geforce Now system.

 

Playing games on it show about 40-50Mbps on my system.

 

Works ok, some games playable but not as good as gaming native.

 

This is the new era stuff, basically RDP/VM gaming remotely transmitting
graphics to your local screen.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Fair warning

[Ron M.]

Spam fried rice. Very commonly found in Guam, for example.

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 00:49 Jason Wilson  wrote:

> I like my spam fried with a sunny side up egg.
>
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 5:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>>
>> How much spam would you like?
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OVKXIfrGJE
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/26/2019 3:55 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> I think you grandfathered in many years ago.
>> We will reserve an extra helping for you.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 4:52 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Fair warning
>>
>> Hey! I didn't see these terms when I signed up. What if I want to get
>> more spam?
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 3:44 PM  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 2:42 PM
>>> *To:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning
>>>
>>> We will try this again:
>>> [image: image]
>>>
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 2:13 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mail Chimp received a direct complaint today from one of our list
>>> subscribers.
>>> Not too long after the complaint, we had a new subscriber join the
>>> list.
>>> I asked him if, during the subscription process, anything was said about
>>> me sending out spam now and then.
>>>
>>> He said he received the following from the list serv:
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>> Not sure what more I can do.  I went to Mail Chimp several years ago so
>>> that you can have the option of getting my spam or not but staying on the
>>> list.  This particular person that complained to me today and (presumably
>>> to Mail Chimp) prefers we spam the list instead.
>>>
>>> I think this is the first complaint that Mail Chimp has ever received
>>> about me.
>>>
>>> I guess if they boot me, I will have to spam the list...
>>>
>>> *From:* Albert J Rachide
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 1:59 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fair warning
>>>
>>> Keep up the good work!
>>>
>>> Al Rachide
>>> Pink Hill, NC
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 2:07 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 As all of the old timers know, I advertise my products here.  Forrest
 is free to do so as well.  My dealers too.   And we open it up on Friday
 mornings to everyone as a swap meet.  When I send things there days I use
 mailchimp for a variety of reasons.  Plus it allows you to opt out of my
 spam and still be on this list for all the rest of the subject matter.  It
 appears that some are unaware.  I will have to double check the list
 subscription process to make sure this is made clear to new subs here.
 Sorry to those that think I am mining the list for spam purposes.  It is
 worse than that actually as I own the domain and have always used it and
 the AF shows to market my junk.  I guess I need to make it more clear when
 subscribing.

 Sent from my iPhone
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