date:20201012

Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

2020-10-12 Thread fiberrun

This is the only third party info I've seen about it online:

https://www.thefoa.org/foanl-5-16.html
(you need to scroll down)
 
Pros: it has fiber holders
Cons: it's a V groove splicer

It claims to be of Swedish origin, but I have some doubts about that since I've 
seen Chinese vendors selling a similar unit. Fiberopticresale also stopped 
selling the unit, so I don't know if there are any local dealers anymore.

It's not an easy call to make, as you can get a reasonable Chinese core 
alignment splicer for less.


Jared
 
 

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 
From: "liddy303" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

Any of you guys seen or used one of these?:
 
http://www.easysplicer.com/easysplicer/
 
$1250 on Amazon.  Wonder if these are better than the version from Mao's 
Dollarama. 

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 6:00 AM mailto:fiber...@mail.com]> 
wrote:I have one of those SignalFire fusion splicers. They are sold all over 
the place by different vendors and different brand names.

In short, it works and it does what it says on the tin. It can be a bit fiddly 
and annoying at times, but it gets the job done.

Main annoyances:
- no removable fiber holders. Leads to fiddling around in order to get the 
fibers in place, as the splicers will claim missing fiber if it isn't in "the 
zone".  This can get really annoying if the fibers are from spiral tubes and 
the fibers retain a curve, as there isn't much space to hold down the fiber 
straight when closing the clamps. Once the fibers are in place the splicer is 
fully automatic.
- the splicer wants to connect over Bluetooth to the companion app every time 
it is powered on and won't function before connecting. The app wouldn't connect 
over Bluetooth using an older iPhone which was frustrating.
- the oven doesn't close automatically when a splice is inserted. It has to be 
closed manually.

On the upside, it's reasonably fast and easy to disassemble/reassemble. This I 
found out when I had to open it to reseat a loose camera connector.

In conclusion, it's fine for drop splicing where an additional minute here or 
there doesn't matter much, but not something I'd use for large count splicing.

Since the SignalFire splicer experience wasn't exciting enough, I guess I 
should get one of those sub-$500 splicers from Ali* next :)


Jared




Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2020
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com]>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

Have you used these?
 
Sent from my iPhone
 On Oct 6, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com]> wrote:
 


https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Automatic-Optical-Welding-Splicing/dp/B07CNQVK4W[https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Automatic-Optical-Welding-Splicing/dp/B07CNQVK4W]
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/fispstuff/permalink/1307514506265785[https://www.facebook.com/groups/fispstuff/permalink/1307514506265785][https://www.facebook.com/groups/fispstuff/permalink/1307514506265785%5Bhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/fispstuff/permalink/1307514506265785%5D]
 Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373 

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:32 PM 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com][mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]]>
 wrote:

A while back there was a discussion about hand held fusion splicers for drops.  
I don’t want to send my larger active core alignment splicers out with drop 
crews. 
 
Cannot find the thread.  There were some suggestions about lower cost fusion 
splicers that people like.  Love to hear those suggestions again. --
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Re: [AFMUG] Brigham Young University's Internet Measurement and Anti-Abuse Laboratory

2020-10-12 Thread John Osmon

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 05:49:18PM -0400, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
[...]
>  I can not think of any
>  valid reason for someone to spoof my IP on incoming packets.

There are some asymmetrical cases where you may see your own addresses
coming in over an edge router.  Most of them are solved better with
VPNs, but they do exist.

There are few cases anymore where not following BCP38 is required...

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Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

2020-10-12 Thread chuck

Nice, wish one of you would buy one and tell me how you like it.  

From: liddy303 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 7:37 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

Any of you guys seen or used one of these?: 

http://www.easysplicer.com/easysplicer/

$1250 on Amazon.  Wonder if these are better than the version from Mao's 
Dollarama.

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 6:00 AM  wrote:

  I have one of those SignalFire fusion splicers. They are sold all over the 
place by different vendors and different brand names.

  In short, it works and it does what it says on the tin. It can be a bit 
fiddly and annoying at times, but it gets the job done.

  Main annoyances:
  - no removable fiber holders. Leads to fiddling around in order to get the 
fibers in place, as the splicers will claim missing fiber if it isn't in "the 
zone".  This can get really annoying if the fibers are from spiral tubes and 
the fibers retain a curve, as there isn't much space to hold down the fiber 
straight when closing the clamps. Once the fibers are in place the splicer is 
fully automatic.
  - the splicer wants to connect over Bluetooth to the companion app every time 
it is powered on and won't function before connecting. The app wouldn't connect 
over Bluetooth using an older iPhone which was frustrating.
  - the oven doesn't close automatically when a splice is inserted. It has to 
be closed manually.

  On the upside, it's reasonably fast and easy to disassemble/reassemble. This 
I found out when I had to open it to reseat a loose camera connector.

  In conclusion, it's fine for drop splicing where an additional minute here or 
there doesn't matter much, but not something I'd use for large count splicing.

  Since the SignalFire splicer experience wasn't exciting enough, I guess I 
should get one of those sub-$500 splicers from Ali* next :)

  Jared

  Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2020 
  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

  Have you used these?

  Sent from my iPhone
  On Oct 6, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:

  https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Automatic-Optical-Welding-Splicing/dp/B07CNQVK4W

https://www.facebook.com/groups/fispstuff/permalink/1307514506265785[https://www.facebook.com/groups/fispstuff/permalink/1307514506265785]
  Josh Luthman
  24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373 

  On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:32 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]> 
wrote:

  A while back there was a discussion about hand held fusion splicers for 
drops.  I don’t want to send my larger active core alignment splicers out with 
drop crews. 

  Cannot find the thread.  There were some suggestions about lower cost fusion 
splicers that people like.  Love to hear those suggestions again. --
  AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

2020-10-12 Thread liddy303

Any of you guys seen or used one of these?:

http://www.easysplicer.com/easysplicer/

$1250 on Amazon.  Wonder if these are better than the version from Mao's
Dollarama.

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 6:00 AM  wrote:

> I have one of those SignalFire fusion splicers. They are sold all over the
> place by different vendors and different brand names.
>
> In short, it works and it does what it says on the tin. It can be a bit
> fiddly and annoying at times, but it gets the job done.
>
> Main annoyances:
> - no removable fiber holders. Leads to fiddling around in order to get the
> fibers in place, as the splicers will claim missing fiber if it isn't in
> "the zone".  This can get really annoying if the fibers are from spiral
> tubes and the fibers retain a curve, as there isn't much space to hold down
> the fiber straight when closing the clamps. Once the fibers are in place
> the splicer is fully automatic.
> - the splicer wants to connect over Bluetooth to the companion app every
> time it is powered on and won't function before connecting. The app
> wouldn't connect over Bluetooth using an older iPhone which was frustrating.
> - the oven doesn't close automatically when a splice is inserted. It has
> to be closed manually.
>
> On the upside, it's reasonably fast and easy to disassemble/reassemble.
> This I found out when I had to open it to reseat a loose camera connector.
>
> In conclusion, it's fine for drop splicing where an additional minute here
> or there doesn't matter much, but not something I'd use for large count
> splicing.
>
> Since the SignalFire splicer experience wasn't exciting enough, I guess I
> should get one of those sub-$500 splicers from Ali* next :)
>
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2020
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers
>
> Have you used these?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>  On Oct 6, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Automatic-Optical-Welding-Splicing/dp/B07CNQVK4W
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/fispstuff/permalink/1307514506265785[https://www.facebook.com/groups/fispstuff/permalink/1307514506265785]
>  Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:32 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]>
> wrote:
>
> A while back there was a discussion about hand held fusion splicers for
> drops.  I don’t want to send my larger active core alignment splicers out
> with drop crews.
>
> Cannot find the thread.  There were some suggestions about lower cost
> fusion splicers that people like.  Love to hear those suggestions again. --
> AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] DIY Broadband rocks!

2020-10-12 Thread Craig House

Thanks Sam.  It was a pleasure to meet you and I appreciate the nice comments 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 16:59, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> 
> Pictures?
> 
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:31 PM Sam Lambie  wrote:
>> We just had the pleasure of getting a tower swapped out with Craig and Josh 
>> from DIY broadband this weekend. Both of them were pros and fun to work 
>> with. We got the job done in the allotted time in 25-35 mph winds with no 
>> drama.
>> I am always so appreciative of people who do what they are going to do on 
>> time and with a smile. Not many left out there now a days. 
>> Thanks Craig! 
>> 
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> Sam Lambie
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] DIY Broadband rocks!

2020-10-12 Thread Jaime Solorza

Pictures?

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:31 PM Sam Lambie  wrote:

> We just had the pleasure of getting a tower swapped out with Craig and
> Josh from DIY broadband this weekend. Both of them were pros and fun to
> work with. We got the job done in the allotted time in 25-35 mph winds with
> no drama.
> I am always so appreciative of people who do what they are going to do on
> time and with a smile. Not many left out there now a days.
> Thanks Craig!
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Brigham Young University's Internet Measurement and Anti-Abuse Laboratory

2020-10-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

Normally that is an amplification attack, but the spoofed source address
would be the victim and you would be the amplifier.  They use some service
like DNS or NTP where a small packet can generate a much bigger response.
By using UDP instead of TCP, the source address can be spoofed, and that
address gets the amplified response packets.

It's strange they were studying whether ASNs filter incoming traffic with a
source address spoofed as one of their own.  The normal topic of
conversation is filtering outgoing traffic that is spoofing a source address
that is NOT one of your own, or that is a private or reserved address like
192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x.  If all ISPs blocked outgoing traffic from their
networks with source IPs that didn't belong to them or their customers, then
nobody could spoof source IPs.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 4:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Brigham Young University's Internet Measurement and
Anti-Abuse Laboratory

I  got  an e-mail from BYU about IP Spoofing. Looks like they ran some
testing during December 2019. "The intent of the experiment was to determine
the pervasiveness of networks failing to filter spoofed  incoming  traffic
appearing  to  originate  from  within  their  own
 networks."   Apparently they are going to present the results of this
 experiment  at the Internet Measurement Conference (IMC) 2020 at the  end
of this month.

 They sent me the e-mail being my AS failed their test.  The e-mail was
very  well  written  with  proper  english  and spelling.  They weren't
asking me for anything, just giving me a heads up.

 I  didn't have any filters in my firewall preventing this, but popped  a
couple in to see what they caught.

 Well  I  am  seeing  random packets coming in from the outside world  with
my IP addresses as the source.  Looks like they are looking for  DNS servers
being all traffic so far has been UDP 53.

 I   now   have   these  Firewall rules in place.  Is there any reason
 why  I  won't  want  to  block these request.  I can not think of any
valid reason for someone to spoof my IP on incoming packets.


--

Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread Cameron Crum

I know what you mean Robert. I got my first job out of college with Sprint
Cellular during a poker game on a ski trip. A group of my friends and I
went to Crested Butte over Thanksgiving because they used to do free skiing
for the week of Thanksgiving. One of my buddies was from Chicago and ran
into a couple girls from his former HS on the slopes. We invited them and
their mom and her BF (who both worked at Sprint as Engineers) to come hang
out at our condo as we were getting  a keg of beer and playing poker. It
was my senior year and discussions with the "adults" led me to tell them I
really wanted to get into cellular as I thought it was about to explode as
an industry. They told me to call them when I was about to graduate. I did
and was basically hired on the spot. I highly doubt I would have met my
Chicago buddy and hence the resultant chance meeting to get that job in a
virtual school.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 12:54 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> The fundamentals of Silicon Valley have been driven out of Stanford and
> Cal since they were founded.   The connections for grad students are
> what drive the funding from the VC.  Yang and Filo met as undergrads at
> Stanford and their funding came from a meeting at a party they went to.
> I would say for engineers making those connections are even more
> important.  Engineers can have even more problems making connections
> without person to person contact.
>
> On 10/12/2020 10:41 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > I agree, but more of a problem for the humanities than engineering I
> > would think.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
> > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 11:40 AM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer
> >
> > I think Universities without student to student connections are going to
> > be a big problem.  I still think they are about building personal bonds.
> >   It's pretty tough to do that on video chat at the same level as a
> > kegger.   ( not that I did keggers ).   But knowing someone out of the
> > classroom is important to know and develop bonds with.   It will be a
> > different society without those bonds.
> >
> > On 10/12/2020 10:24 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> >> It will be interesting to see how education changes post covid.  I
> >> would think that we have proven brick and mortar universities are not
> >> needed. Perhaps for some labs and other special things.  But online
> >> works.  Should drive the cost down I would hope.
> >> *From:* Cameron Crum
> >> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 10:52 AM
> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer
> >> Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they
> >> all want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it
> >> on the kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be
> >> hard pressed to pay tuition working their way through right now.
> >> Tuition costs have doubled inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My
> >> daughter just entered college and through sheer luck, she ended up in
> >> Community College. She got into every big school she applied to but
> >> after visiting them all, decided none of them were for her. She really
> >> wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did not apply because her teachers all
> >> told her she had to be top 7% to get accepted and she was only top
> >> 10%. I told her to apply, but she did not. So, as a result she decided
> >> in March she would just move to Austin and go to ACC who has a
> >> transfer track program into UT if you can keep a 3.7 GPA. She is
> >> taking the same classes as her friends at UT (all online) but paying
> >> 1/5 the tuition. She is living in a private dormitory across the
> >> street from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so basically has the same
> >> "college" experience without the huge tuition bill, for now. I
> >> couldn't be happier. She had a decent 529 for college but not enough
> >> for all 4 years even at a state school. Now it might just last,
> >> especially if she decides to stay at ACC for another year before
> >> transferring to UT.  I'm hoping she can get out without debt, but I'm
> >> guessing she'll have a little. I'm with Mike Rowe on a lot of this. I
> >> never thought college was for everyone, and trade schools are cheap in
> >> comparison, and you can be earning a good paycheck in a lot less time.
> >> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >>
> >> I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint.  After a month or two I got a
> >> raise to $2.  I think all new employees got a quick performance
> >> review at which they either got a 10% raise or got fired.
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it
> >> paid.
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year.
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> >> *Sent:*

[AFMUG] Brigham Young University's Internet Measurement and Anti-Abuse Laboratory

2020-10-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies

I  got  an e-mail from BYU about IP Spoofing. Looks like they ran some
testing during December 2019. "The intent of the experiment was to determine
 the pervasiveness of networks failing to filter spoofed
 incoming  traffic  appearing  to  originate  from  within  their  own
 networks."   Apparently they are going to present the results of this
 experiment  at the Internet Measurement Conference (IMC) 2020 at the
 end of this month.

 They sent me the e-mail being my AS failed their test.  The e-mail was
 very  well  written  with  proper  english  and spelling.  They weren’t
 asking me for anything, just giving me a heads up.

 I  didn't have any filters in my firewall preventing this, but popped
 a couple in to see what they caught.

 Well  I  am  seeing  random packets coming in from the outside world
 with  my IP addresses as the source.  Looks like they are looking for
 DNS servers being all traffic so far has been UDP 53.

 I   now   have   these  Firewall rules in place.  Is there any reason
 why  I  won't  want  to  block these request.  I can not think of any
 valid reason for someone to spoof my IP on incoming packets.


--

Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com


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[AFMUG] DIY Broadband rocks!

2020-10-12 Thread Sam Lambie

We just had the pleasure of getting a tower swapped out with Craig and Josh
from DIY broadband this weekend. Both of them were pros and fun to work
with. We got the job done in the allotted time in 25-35 mph winds with no
drama.
I am always so appreciative of people who do what they are going to do on
time and with a smile. Not many left out there now a days.
Thanks Craig!

-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread chuck

I agree the help in getting them educated was a big gift, but we always did 
give them some kind of gift too.  

So far I have two with masters, two more working on masters, one finishing CS 
one starting some medical based thing and one that has taken some classes but 
prefers the machine shop and working on our fiber gear.  Nice to be proud of 
your kids.  

I have relatives with 40 year old meth/heroin addict kids.  Didn’t seem like 
they did anything different than we did.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 11:58 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

The wife and I were checking into a hotel for my oldest sons graduation.   The 
desk clerk asked what we were celebrating and I said my sons graduation.

She asked what we were getting him for a graduation present. 

The wife and I both look at each other kind of dumbfounded.   Shit, we were 
supposed to get him a graduation present?

I threw out “No student debt?” and both the clerk and the other person behind 
the desk asked if we would adopt them :-)

Mark



  On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

  I was lucky enough to get out of College with No Debt, thanks to my Parents.  
They were not wealthy, but were frugal their whole life.  Deal was they would 
pay for 4 years, anything more was on Me.  Stayed on Campus for 2 summers that 
I paid for out of pocket.  I was making $15/hr back in the late 90's at Argonne 
Labs.  Almost 3 times what my friends with on campus jobs made.  Smallish 
Liberal arts school.  ~4000 undergrad.  We still live in the same city the 
school is in.  The Campus has not gotten any more property, as it's landlocked 
in a historic district, but they've added more buildings to their existing 
greenspace.  Had a nephew that graduated from there a couple years ago.  Just 
seeing how his experience was different from mine was mind boggling over 15 
years.  

  It was a huge deal for my gang to go out for a meal.  Getting Pizza was a 
once a month thing.  You looked forward to those floor movie nights with free 
pizza.  The On campus cafe was burgers and fries served on paper plates.  

  Now enrollment is up to ~6000, multiple buildings on campus have coffee shops 
in them.  I'm not even sure you can get a burger on campus anymore, as all the 
food locations have some variation of 'fresh' in the name.  I'm pretty sure 
that he was going out multiple time a week to upscale fast food places.  That 
seems to be the norm for most college kids now.  I'm not sure where they are 
getting all that pocket cash from, unless it's all on Credit cards.  

  I think the biggest sadness is the college pranks, since it's not about the 
fun, it's about the one-up/twitter/youtube views that have the potential to 
just be dangerous.  

  My parents would tell the story about the kid that took a cow up to the top 
floor of the 5 story admin building one weekend.  Or when they stole all the 
legs off the tables in the cafeteria.  I'd imagine something like that would 
get you expelled now.  I don't think we could have even pulled those off in the 
90's.  


  On 10/12/2020 12:26 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Too much easy money out there for students. 

It’s not a simple problem - how do you make higher education available for 
those who don’t have the means to pay for it without inadvertently raising the 
costs for everyone?


Visit any decent 4 year college.   They are far closer to a country club 
than to colleges from the 1980’s and before.   Fantastic facilities -  every 
type of recreational activity or amenity you could possibly want.   The amount 
spent on buildings and facilities is astonishing.Yet they don’t actually 
spend all that much money on faculty.  Being a college professor, even with 
tenure, isn’t all that lucrative. 

The schools are competitive with each other in attracting students - and 
with cheap money available there is little or no incentive for students to shop 
on price.   The schools are faced with the same competitive pressures as 
everyone else - except to keep rates down.   The end result is predictable.

Combine an easy (even predatory) money policy with a large middle class 
population with easy access to credit and you get exactly what we have.

Giving away even more money by having taxpayers bail out the loan debt 
isn’t a good answer and only increases the problems. 

And we haven’t even started on the problems created by students graduating 
with useless degrees with insane levels of debt and then figuring out they 
can’t afford to keep living at the country club. What  do you mean my 
studio apartment doesn’t come fully furnished with a pool, masseuse, and a 
barista?How the hell is anyone supposed to live like this?

Mark 


  On Oct 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

  Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all 
want to be on that gravy

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread Mark Radabaugh

The wife and I were checking into a hotel for my oldest sons graduation.   The 
desk clerk asked what we were celebrating and I said my sons graduation.   

She asked what we were getting him for a graduation present. 

The wife and I both look at each other kind of dumbfounded.   Shit, we were 
supposed to get him a graduation present?

I threw out “No student debt?” and both the clerk and the other person behind 
the desk asked if we would adopt them :-)

Mark

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> I was lucky enough to get out of College with No Debt, thanks to my Parents.  
> They were not wealthy, but were frugal their whole life.  Deal was they would 
> pay for 4 years, anything more was on Me.  Stayed on Campus for 2 summers 
> that I paid for out of pocket.  I was making $15/hr back in the late 90's at 
> Argonne Labs.  Almost 3 times what my friends with on campus jobs made.  
> Smallish Liberal arts school.  ~4000 undergrad.  We still live in the same 
> city the school is in.  The Campus has not gotten any more property, as it's 
> landlocked in a historic district, but they've added more buildings to their 
> existing greenspace.  Had a nephew that graduated from there a couple years 
> ago.  Just seeing how his experience was different from mine was mind 
> boggling over 15 years.  
> 
> It was a huge deal for my gang to go out for a meal.  Getting Pizza was a 
> once a month thing.  You looked forward to those floor movie nights with free 
> pizza.  The On campus cafe was burgers and fries served on paper plates.  
> 
> Now enrollment is up to ~6000, multiple buildings on campus have coffee shops 
> in them.  I'm not even sure you can get a burger on campus anymore, as all 
> the food locations have some variation of 'fresh' in the name.  I'm pretty 
> sure that he was going out multiple time a week to upscale fast food places.  
> That seems to be the norm for most college kids now.  I'm not sure where they 
> are getting all that pocket cash from, unless it's all on Credit cards.  
> 
> I think the biggest sadness is the college pranks, since it's not about the 
> fun, it's about the one-up/twitter/youtube views that have the potential to 
> just be dangerous.  
> 
> My parents would tell the story about the kid that took a cow up to the top 
> floor of the 5 story admin building one weekend.  Or when they stole all the 
> legs off the tables in the cafeteria.  I'd imagine something like that would 
> get you expelled now.  I don't think we could have even pulled those off in 
> the 90's.  
> 
> On 10/12/2020 12:26 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>> Too much easy money out there for students.
>> 
>> It’s not a simple problem - how do you make higher education available for 
>> those who don’t have the means to pay for it without inadvertently raising 
>> the costs for everyone?
>> 
>> Visit any decent 4 year college.   They are far closer to a country club 
>> than to colleges from the 1980’s and before.   Fantastic facilities -  every 
>> type of recreational activity or amenity you could possibly want.   The 
>> amount spent on buildings and facilities is astonishing.Yet they don’t 
>> actually spend all that much money on faculty.  Being a college professor, 
>> even with tenure, isn’t all that lucrative. 
>> 
>> The schools are competitive with each other in attracting students - and 
>> with cheap money available there is little or no incentive for students to 
>> shop on price.   The schools are faced with the same competitive pressures 
>> as everyone else - except to keep rates down.   The end result is 
>> predictable.
>> 
>> Combine an easy (even predatory) money policy with a large middle class 
>> population with easy access to credit and you get exactly what we have.
>> 
>> Giving away even more money by having taxpayers bail out the loan debt isn’t 
>> a good answer and only increases the problems. 
>> 
>> And we haven’t even started on the problems created by students graduating 
>> with useless degrees with insane levels of debt and then figuring out they 
>> can’t afford to keep living at the country club. What  do you mean my 
>> studio apartment doesn’t come fully furnished with a pool, masseuse, and a 
>> barista?How the hell is anyone supposed to live like this?
>> 
>> Mark 
>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Cameron Crum >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all 
>>> want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it on the 
>>> kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard pressed 
>>> to pay tuition working their way through right now. Tuition costs have 
>>> doubled inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just entered 
>>> college and through sheer luck, she ended up in Community College. She got 
>>> into every big school she applied to but after visiting them all, decided 
>>> none of them were for her. She really

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread chuck

Pranks... BYU has a system of tunnels under the whole campus.  If you know your 
way around you can come up in any building.  Most of it was locked down but I 
knew of a set of metal shelves in the physics building that you could remove 
the bottom shelf and get down into a pipe chase.  It was fun running around in 
the dark down there.  Today they would probably throw me in jail.

I did this same thing in my high school.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 11:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

I was lucky enough to get out of College with No Debt, thanks to my Parents.  
They were not wealthy, but were frugal their whole life.  Deal was they would 
pay for 4 years, anything more was on Me.  Stayed on Campus for 2 summers that 
I paid for out of pocket.  I was making $15/hr back in the late 90's at Argonne 
Labs.  Almost 3 times what my friends with on campus jobs made.  Smallish 
Liberal arts school.  ~4000 undergrad.  We still live in the same city the 
school is in.  The Campus has not gotten any more property, as it's landlocked 
in a historic district, but they've added more buildings to their existing 
greenspace.  Had a nephew that graduated from there a couple years ago.  Just 
seeing how his experience was different from mine was mind boggling over 15 
years.  

It was a huge deal for my gang to go out for a meal.  Getting Pizza was a once 
a month thing.  You looked forward to those floor movie nights with free pizza. 
 The On campus cafe was burgers and fries served on paper plates.  

Now enrollment is up to ~6000, multiple buildings on campus have coffee shops 
in them.  I'm not even sure you can get a burger on campus anymore, as all the 
food locations have some variation of 'fresh' in the name.  I'm pretty sure 
that he was going out multiple time a week to upscale fast food places.  That 
seems to be the norm for most college kids now.  I'm not sure where they are 
getting all that pocket cash from, unless it's all on Credit cards.  

I think the biggest sadness is the college pranks, since it's not about the 
fun, it's about the one-up/twitter/youtube views that have the potential to 
just be dangerous.  

My parents would tell the story about the kid that took a cow up to the top 
floor of the 5 story admin building one weekend.  Or when they stole all the 
legs off the tables in the cafeteria.  I'd imagine something like that would 
get you expelled now.  I don't think we could have even pulled those off in the 
90's.  


On 10/12/2020 12:26 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  Too much easy money out there for students. 

  It’s not a simple problem - how do you make higher education available for 
those who don’t have the means to pay for it without inadvertently raising the 
costs for everyone?


  Visit any decent 4 year college.   They are far closer to a country club than 
to colleges from the 1980’s and before.   Fantastic facilities -  every type of 
recreational activity or amenity you could possibly want.   The amount spent on 
buildings and facilities is astonishing.Yet they don’t actually spend all 
that much money on faculty.  Being a college professor, even with tenure, isn’t 
all that lucrative. 

  The schools are competitive with each other in attracting students - and with 
cheap money available there is little or no incentive for students to shop on 
price.   The schools are faced with the same competitive pressures as everyone 
else - except to keep rates down.   The end result is predictable.

  Combine an easy (even predatory) money policy with a large middle class 
population with easy access to credit and you get exactly what we have.

  Giving away even more money by having taxpayers bail out the loan debt isn’t 
a good answer and only increases the problems. 

  And we haven’t even started on the problems created by students graduating 
with useless degrees with insane levels of debt and then figuring out they 
can’t afford to keep living at the country club. What  do you mean my 
studio apartment doesn’t come fully furnished with a pool, masseuse, and a 
barista?How the hell is anyone supposed to live like this?

  Mark 


On Oct 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all 
want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it on the kids 
to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard pressed to pay 
tuition working their way through right now. Tuition costs have doubled 
inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just entered college and 
through sheer luck, she ended up in Community College. She got into every big 
school she applied to but after visiting them all, decided none of them were 
for her. She really wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did not apply because her 
teachers all told her she had to be top 7% to get accepted and she was only top 
10%. I told her to

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread Robert Andrews

The fundamentals of Silicon Valley have been driven out of Stanford and 
Cal since they were founded.   The connections for grad students are 
what drive the funding from the VC.  Yang and Filo met as undergrads at 
Stanford and their funding came from a meeting at a party they went to. 
I would say for engineers making those connections are even more 
important.  Engineers can have even more problems making connections 
without person to person contact.


On 10/12/2020 10:41 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I agree, but more of a problem for the humanities than engineering I 
would think.


-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 11:40 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

I think Universities without student to student connections are going to
be a big problem.  I still think they are about building personal bonds.
  It's pretty tough to do that on video chat at the same level as a
kegger.   ( not that I did keggers ).   But knowing someone out of the
classroom is important to know and develop bonds with.   It will be a
different society without those bonds.

On 10/12/2020 10:24 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
It will be interesting to see how education changes post covid.  I 
would think that we have proven brick and mortar universities are not 
needed. Perhaps for some labs and other special things.  But online 
works.  Should drive the cost down I would hope.

*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 10:52 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer
Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they 
all want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it 
on the kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be 
hard pressed to pay tuition working their way through right now. 
Tuition costs have doubled inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My 
daughter just entered college and through sheer luck, she ended up in 
Community College. She got into every big school she applied to but 
after visiting them all, decided none of them were for her. She really 
wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did not apply because her teachers all 
told her she had to be top 7% to get accepted and she was only top 
10%. I told her to apply, but she did not. So, as a result she decided 
in March she would just move to Austin and go to ACC who has a 
transfer track program into UT if you can keep a 3.7 GPA. She is 
taking the same classes as her friends at UT (all online) but paying 
1/5 the tuition. She is living in a private dormitory across the 
street from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so basically has the same 
"college" experience without the huge tuition bill, for now. I 
couldn't be happier. She had a decent 529 for college but not enough 
for all 4 years even at a state school. Now it might just last, 
especially if she decides to stay at ACC for another year before 
transferring to UT.  I'm hoping she can get out without debt, but I'm 
guessing she'll have a little. I'm with Mike Rowe on a lot of this. I 
never thought college was for everyone, and trade schools are cheap in 
comparison, and you can be earning a good paycheck in a lot less time.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint.  After a month or two I got a
raise to $2.  I think all new employees got a quick performance
review at which they either got a 10% raise or got fired.



I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it
paid.



First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year.



*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer



Still , a fortune.  I was making $2.50/hr in those years.

Sent from my iPhone





On Oct 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 I forgot to take all the taxes out of that for each summer.  I
netted more like 4K for the summer..

On 10/11/20 3:49 PM, Robert wrote:

When I went to UCSC one quarter all up cost about $1.7K in
1975  This year, just the tuition, room and board and
mandatory health insurance is going to cost you $36K
_california resident_   I was able to work for $9.40/hour at
a gas station as a jr manager, opening and closing during
the summer.  60 hours weeks for 12 weeks.  That was almost
$7K for the summer, minus gas and some small expenses while
staying at my parents.  Yes I was overpaid, pays to know
someone, I also opened, closed and did the books.   But I
don't care who you know but joe blow isn't going to get a
summer job that is going to come anywhere close to $100K for

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread Nate Burke

I was lucky enough to get out of College with No Debt, thanks to my 
Parents.  They were not wealthy, but were frugal their whole life. Deal 
was they would pay for 4 years, anything more was on Me. Stayed on 
Campus for 2 summers that I paid for out of pocket.  I was making $15/hr 
back in the late 90's at Argonne Labs.  Almost 3 times what my friends 
with on campus jobs made.  Smallish Liberal arts school.  ~4000 
undergrad.  We still live in the same city the school is in.  The Campus 
has not gotten any more property, as it's landlocked in a historic 
district, but they've added more buildings to their existing 
greenspace.  Had a nephew that graduated from there a couple years ago.  
Just seeing how his experience was different from mine was mind boggling 
over 15 years.


It was a huge deal for my gang to go out for a meal.  Getting Pizza was 
a once a month thing.  You looked forward to those floor movie nights 
with free pizza.  The On campus cafe was burgers and fries served on 
paper plates.


Now enrollment is up to ~6000, multiple buildings on campus have coffee 
shops in them.  I'm not even sure you can get a burger on campus 
anymore, as all the food locations have some variation of 'fresh' in the 
name.  I'm pretty sure that he was going out multiple time a week to 
upscale fast food places.  That seems to be the norm for most college 
kids now.  I'm not sure where they are getting all that pocket cash 
from, unless it's all on Credit cards.


I think the biggest sadness is the college pranks, since it's not about 
the fun, it's about the one-up/twitter/youtube views that have the 
potential to just be dangerous.


My parents would tell the story about the kid that took a cow up to the 
top floor of the 5 story admin building one weekend.  Or when they stole 
all the legs off the tables in the cafeteria.  I'd imagine something 
like that would get you expelled now.  I don't think we could have even 
pulled those off in the 90's.


On 10/12/2020 12:26 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Too much easy money out there for students.

It’s not a simple problem - how do you make higher education available 
for those who don’t have the means to pay for it without inadvertently 
raising the costs for everyone?


Visit any decent 4 year college.   They are far closer to a country 
club than to colleges from the 1980’s and before.   Fantastic 
facilities -  every type of recreational activity or amenity you could 
possibly want.   The amount spent on buildings and facilities is 
astonishing.Yet they don’t actually spend all that much money on 
faculty.  Being a college professor, even with tenure, isn’t all that 
lucrative.


The schools are competitive with each other in attracting students - 
and with cheap money available there is little or no incentive for 
students to shop on price.   The schools are faced with the same 
competitive pressures as everyone else - except to keep rates down.   
The end result is predictable.


Combine an easy (even predatory) money policy with a large middle 
class population with easy access to credit and you get exactly what 
we have.


Giving away even more money by having taxpayers bail out the loan debt 
isn’t a good answer and only increases the problems.


And we haven’t even started on the problems created by students 
graduating with useless degrees with insane levels of debt and then 
figuring out they can’t afford to keep living at the country club. 
What  do you mean my studio apartment doesn’t come fully furnished 
with a pool, masseuse, and a barista?How the hell is anyone 
supposed to live like this?


Mark

On Oct 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Cameron Crum > wrote:


Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they 
all want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put 
it on the kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would 
be hard pressed to pay tuition working their way through right now. 
Tuition costs have doubled inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My 
daughter just entered college and through sheer luck, she ended up in 
Community College. She got into every big school she applied to but 
after visiting them all, decided none of them were for her. She 
really wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did not apply because her 
teachers all told her she had to be top 7% to get accepted and she 
was only top 10%. I told her to apply, but she did not. So, as a 
result she decided in March she would just move to Austin and go to 
ACC who has a transfer track program into UT if you can keep a 3.7 
GPA. She is taking the same classes as her friends at UT (all online) 
but paying 1/5 the tuition. She is living in a private 
dormitory across the street from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so 
basically has the same "college" experience without the huge tuition 
bill, for now. I couldn't be happier. She had a decent 529 for 
college but not enough for all 4 years even at a state school. Now

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread chuck

I agree, but more of a problem for the humanities than engineering I would 
think.

-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 11:40 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

I think Universities without student to student connections are going to
be a big problem.  I still think they are about building personal bonds.
 It's pretty tough to do that on video chat at the same level as a
kegger.   ( not that I did keggers ).   But knowing someone out of the
classroom is important to know and develop bonds with.   It will be a
different society without those bonds.

On 10/12/2020 10:24 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
It will be interesting to see how education changes post covid.  I would 
think that we have proven brick and mortar universities are not needed. 
Perhaps for some labs and other special things.  But online works.  Should 
drive the cost down I would hope.

*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 10:52 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer
Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all 
want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it on the 
kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard pressed 
to pay tuition working their way through right now. Tuition costs have 
doubled inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just entered 
college and through sheer luck, she ended up in Community College. She got 
into every big school she applied to but after visiting them all, decided 
none of them were for her. She really wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did 
not apply because her teachers all told her she had to be top 7% to get 
accepted and she was only top 10%. I told her to apply, but she did not. 
So, as a result she decided in March she would just move to Austin and go 
to ACC who has a transfer track program into UT if you can keep a 3.7 GPA. 
She is taking the same classes as her friends at UT (all online) but 
paying 1/5 the tuition. She is living in a private dormitory across the 
street from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so basically has the same 
"college" experience without the huge tuition bill, for now. I couldn't be 
happier. She had a decent 529 for college but not enough for all 4 years 
even at a state school. Now it might just last, especially if she decides 
to stay at ACC for another year before transferring to UT.  I'm hoping she 
can get out without debt, but I'm guessing she'll have a little. I'm with 
Mike Rowe on a lot of this. I never thought college was for everyone, and 
trade schools are cheap in comparison, and you can be earning a good 
paycheck in a lot less time.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint.  After a month or two I got a
raise to $2.  I think all new employees got a quick performance
review at which they either got a 10% raise or got fired.

I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it
paid.

First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Still , a fortune.  I was making $2.50/hr in those years.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 I forgot to take all the taxes out of that for each summer.  I
netted more like 4K for the summer..

On 10/11/20 3:49 PM, Robert wrote:

When I went to UCSC one quarter all up cost about $1.7K in
1975  This year, just the tuition, room and board and
mandatory health insurance is going to cost you $36K
_california resident_   I was able to work for $9.40/hour at
a gas station as a jr manager, opening and closing during
the summer.  60 hours weeks for 12 weeks.  That was almost
$7K for the summer, minus gas and some small expenses while
staying at my parents.  Yes I was overpaid, pays to know
someone, I also opened, closed and did the books.   But I
don't care who you know but joe blow isn't going to get a
summer job that is going to come anywhere close to $100K for
summer or even year round work when you are in college now.
What's the difference?   UC California turns students away
by the bushel.  Instead of a system that focused on
California High School graduates, it's a system that focuses
on attracting donors that can put names on buildings.  Slots
are full from outside the state at huge financial cash
flow.   Everyone else can go to a Jr College.

On 10/11/20

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread Robert Andrews

I think Universities without student to student connections are going to 
be a big problem.  I still think they are about building personal bonds. 
 It's pretty tough to do that on video chat at the same level as a 
kegger.   ( not that I did keggers ).   But knowing someone out of the 
classroom is important to know and develop bonds with.   It will be a 
different society without those bonds.


On 10/12/2020 10:24 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
It will be interesting to see how education changes post covid.  I would 
think that we have proven brick and mortar universities are not needed.  
Perhaps for some labs and other special things.  But online works.  
Should drive the cost down I would hope.

*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 10:52 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer
Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they 
all want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it 
on the kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard 
pressed to pay tuition working their way through right now. Tuition 
costs have doubled inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just 
entered college and through sheer luck, she ended up in Community 
College. She got into every big school she applied to but after visiting 
them all, decided none of them were for her. She really wanted to go to 
UT( Texas), but did not apply because her teachers all told her she had 
to be top 7% to get accepted and she was only top 10%. I told her to 
apply, but she did not. So, as a result she decided in March she would 
just move to Austin and go to ACC who has a transfer track program into 
UT if you can keep a 3.7 GPA. She is taking the same classes as her 
friends at UT (all online) but paying 1/5 the tuition. She is living in 
a private dormitory across the street from UT campus with mostly UT 
kids, so basically has the same "college" experience without the huge 
tuition bill, for now. I couldn't be happier. She had a decent 529 for 
college but not enough for all 4 years even at a state school. Now it 
might just last, especially if she decides to stay at ACC for another 
year before transferring to UT.  I'm hoping she can get out without 
debt, but I'm guessing she'll have a little. I'm with Mike Rowe on a lot 
of this. I never thought college was for everyone, and trade schools are 
cheap in comparison, and you can be earning a good paycheck in a lot 
less time.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint.  After a month or two I got a
raise to $2.  I think all new employees got a quick performance
review at which they either got a 10% raise or got fired.



I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it
paid.



First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year.



*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer



Still , a fortune.  I was making $2.50/hr in those years.

Sent from my iPhone





On Oct 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Robert 
wrote:

 I forgot to take all the taxes out of that for each summer.  I
netted more like 4K for the summer..

On 10/11/20 3:49 PM, Robert wrote:

When I went to UCSC one quarter all up cost about $1.7K in
1975  This year, just the tuition, room and board and
mandatory health insurance is going to cost you $36K
_california resident_   I was able to work for $9.40/hour at
a gas station as a jr manager, opening and closing during
the summer.  60 hours weeks for 12 weeks.  That was almost
$7K for the summer, minus gas and some small expenses while
staying at my parents.  Yes I was overpaid, pays to know
someone, I also opened, closed and did the books.   But I
don't care who you know but joe blow isn't going to get a
summer job that is going to come anywhere close to $100K for
summer or even year round work when you are in college now.
What's the difference?   UC California turns students away
by the bushel.  Instead of a system that focused on
California High School graduates, it's a system that focuses
on attracting donors that can put names on buildings.  Slots
are full from outside the state at huge financial cash
flow.   Everyone else can go to a Jr College.

On 10/11/20 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Here’s one I don’t understand.  Not pointing a finger, I
genuinely don’t understand.  Student loan debt.  Is that
the huge issue that people say?  And

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread Mark Radabaugh

Too much easy money out there for students.

It’s not a simple problem - how do you make higher education available for 
those who don’t have the means to pay for it without inadvertently raising the 
costs for everyone?

Visit any decent 4 year college.   They are far closer to a country club than 
to colleges from the 1980’s and before.   Fantastic facilities -  every type of 
recreational activity or amenity you could possibly want.   The amount spent on 
buildings and facilities is astonishing.Yet they don’t actually spend all 
that much money on faculty.  Being a college professor, even with tenure, isn’t 
all that lucrative. 

The schools are competitive with each other in attracting students - and with 
cheap money available there is little or no incentive for students to shop on 
price.   The schools are faced with the same competitive pressures as everyone 
else - except to keep rates down.   The end result is predictable.

Combine an easy (even predatory) money policy with a large middle class 
population with easy access to credit and you get exactly what we have.

Giving away even more money by having taxpayers bail out the loan debt isn’t a 
good answer and only increases the problems. 

And we haven’t even started on the problems created by students graduating with 
useless degrees with insane levels of debt and then figuring out they can’t 
afford to keep living at the country club. What  do you mean my studio 
apartment doesn’t come fully furnished with a pool, masseuse, and a barista?
How the hell is anyone supposed to live like this?

Mark 

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
> 
> Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all 
> want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it on the 
> kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard pressed to 
> pay tuition working their way through right now. Tuition costs have doubled 
> inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just entered college and 
> through sheer luck, she ended up in Community College. She got into every big 
> school she applied to but after visiting them all, decided none of them were 
> for her. She really wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did not apply because her 
> teachers all told her she had to be top 7% to get accepted and she was only 
> top 10%. I told her to apply, but she did not. So, as a result she decided in 
> March she would just move to Austin and go to ACC who has a transfer track 
> program into UT if you can keep a 3.7 GPA. She is taking the same classes as 
> her friends at UT (all online) but paying 1/5 the tuition. She is living in a 
> private dormitory across the street from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so 
> basically has the same "college" experience without the huge tuition bill, 
> for now. I couldn't be happier. She had a decent 529 for college but not 
> enough for all 4 years even at a state school. Now it might just last, 
> especially if she decides to stay at ACC for another year before transferring 
> to UT.  I'm hoping she can get out without debt, but I'm guessing she'll have 
> a little. I'm with Mike Rowe on a lot of this. I never thought college was 
> for everyone, and trade schools are cheap in comparison, and you can be 
> earning a good paycheck in a lot less time. 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint.  After a month or two I got a raise to 
> $2.  I think all new employees got a quick performance review at which they 
> either got a 10% raise or got fired.
> 
>  
> 
> I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it paid.
> 
>  
> 
> First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year.
> 
>  
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer
> 
>  
> 
> Still , a fortune.  I was making $2.50/hr in those years.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Robert  > wrote:
> 
>  I forgot to take all the taxes out of that for each summer.  I netted more 
> like 4K for the summer..
> 
> On 10/11/20 3:49 PM, Robert wrote:
> 
> When I went to UCSC one quarter all up cost about $1.7K in 1975  This year, 
> just the tuition, room and board and mandatory health insurance is going to 
> cost you $36K _california resident_   I was able to work for $9.40/hour at a 
> gas station as a jr manager, opening and closing during the summer.  60 hours 
> weeks for 12 weeks.  That was almost $7K for the summer, minus gas and some 
> small expenses while staying at my parents.  Yes I was overpaid, pays to know 
> someone, I also opened, closed and did the books.   But I don't care who you 
> know but joe blow isn't going to get a summer job that is going to come 
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread chuck

It will be interesting to see how education changes post covid.  I would think 
that we have proven brick and mortar universities are not needed.  Perhaps for 
some labs and other special things.  But online works.  Should drive the cost 
down I would hope.  

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 10:52 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all want 
to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it on the kids to go 
get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard pressed to pay tuition 
working their way through right now. Tuition costs have doubled inflation and 
outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just entered college and through sheer luck, 
she ended up in Community College. She got into every big school she applied to 
but after visiting them all, decided none of them were for her. She really 
wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did not apply because her teachers all told her 
she had to be top 7% to get accepted and she was only top 10%. I told her to 
apply, but she did not. So, as a result she decided in March she would just 
move to Austin and go to ACC who has a transfer track program into UT if you 
can keep a 3.7 GPA. She is taking the same classes as her friends at UT (all 
online) but paying 1/5 the tuition. She is living in a private dormitory across 
the street from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so basically has the same 
"college" experience without the huge tuition bill, for now. I couldn't be 
happier. She had a decent 529 for college but not enough for all 4 years even 
at a state school. Now it might just last, especially if she decides to stay at 
ACC for another year before transferring to UT.  I'm hoping she can get out 
without debt, but I'm guessing she'll have a little. I'm with Mike Rowe on a 
lot of this. I never thought college was for everyone, and trade schools are 
cheap in comparison, and you can be earning a good paycheck in a lot less time. 

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint.  After a month or two I got a raise to 
$2.  I think all new employees got a quick performance review at which they 
either got a 10% raise or got fired.

  I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it paid.

  First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:53 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

  Still , a fortune.  I was making $2.50/hr in those years.

  Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Robert  wrote:

 I forgot to take all the taxes out of that for each summer.  I netted 
more like 4K for the summer..

On 10/11/20 3:49 PM, Robert wrote:

  When I went to UCSC one quarter all up cost about $1.7K in 1975  This 
year, just the tuition, room and board and mandatory health insurance is going 
to cost you $36K _california resident_   I was able to work for $9.40/hour at a 
gas station as a jr manager, opening and closing during the summer.  60 hours 
weeks for 12 weeks.  That was almost $7K for the summer, minus gas and some 
small expenses while staying at my parents.  Yes I was overpaid, pays to know 
someone, I also opened, closed and did the books.   But I don't care who you 
know but joe blow isn't going to get a summer job that is going to come 
anywhere close to $100K for summer or even year round work when you are in 
college now.   What's the difference?   UC California turns students away by 
the bushel.  Instead of a system that focused on California High School 
graduates, it's a system that focuses on attracting donors that can put names 
on buildings.  Slots are full from outside the state at huge financial cash 
flow.   Everyone else can go to a Jr College.

  On 10/11/20 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Here’s one I don’t understand.  Not pointing a finger, I genuinely 
don’t understand.  Student loan debt.  Is that the huge issue that people say?  
And if so, is that a new phenomenon?  Why?

I assume my dad went to college on the GI Bill after WWII.  I worked 20 
hours a week all through college making pizzas and burgers, and had a coop job 
every third quarter or so until the coop jobs disappeared due to a recession.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1969%E2%80%931970

Plus my parents helped out.  I don’t remember my friends in college 
talking about student debt, but maybe they had it and it just wasn’t talked 
about.

I can speculate some possible reasons for a student debt crisis now:

- Tuition has gone up

- Part time jobs and coop jobs unavailable or don’t pay enough

- Less financial assistance available

- Predatory for-profit schools

- Lots of kids who couldn’t find jobs in the

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

2020-10-12 Thread Cameron Crum

Universities know the government will give big loans to kids and they all
want to be on that gravy train. They raise tuition and just put it on the
kids to go get more money in the form of debt. Kids would be hard pressed
to pay tuition working their way through right now. Tuition costs have
doubled inflation and outpaced wages by 8x. My daughter just entered
college and through sheer luck, she ended up in Community College. She got
into every big school she applied to but after visiting them all, decided
none of them were for her. She really wanted to go to UT( Texas), but did
not apply because her teachers all told her she had to be top 7% to get
accepted and she was only top 10%. I told her to apply, but she did not.
So, as a result she decided in March she would just move to Austin and go
to ACC who has a transfer track program into UT if you can keep a 3.7 GPA.
She is taking the same classes as her friends at UT (all online) but paying
1/5 the tuition. She is living in a private dormitory across the street
from UT campus with mostly UT kids, so basically has the same "college"
experience without the huge tuition bill, for now. I couldn't be happier.
She had a decent 529 for college but not enough for all 4 years even at a
state school. Now it might just last, especially if she decides to stay at
ACC for another year before transferring to UT.  I'm hoping she can get out
without debt, but I'm guessing she'll have a little. I'm with Mike Rowe on
a lot of this. I never thought college was for everyone, and trade schools
are cheap in comparison, and you can be earning a good paycheck in a lot
less time.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I started at $1.80 at the pizza joint.  After a month or two I got a raise
> to $2.  I think all new employees got a quick performance review at which
> they either got a 10% raise or got fired.
>
>
>
> I had a summer job as a shipping clerk, I don’t remember what it paid.
>
>
>
> First job after graduation in 1972 paid $10,920/year.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2020 6:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer
>
>
>
> Still , a fortune.  I was making $2.50/hr in those years.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
>  I forgot to take all the taxes out of that for each summer.  I netted
> more like 4K for the summer..
>
> On 10/11/20 3:49 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> When I went to UCSC one quarter all up cost about $1.7K in 1975  This
> year, just the tuition, room and board and mandatory health insurance is
> going to cost you $36K _california resident_   I was able to work for
> $9.40/hour at a gas station as a jr manager, opening and closing during the
> summer.  60 hours weeks for 12 weeks.  That was almost $7K for the summer,
> minus gas and some small expenses while staying at my parents.  Yes I was
> overpaid, pays to know someone, I also opened, closed and did the books.
> But I don't care who you know but joe blow isn't going to get a summer job
> that is going to come anywhere close to $100K for summer or even year round
> work when you are in college now.   What's the difference?   UC California
> turns students away by the bushel.  Instead of a system that focused on
> California High School graduates, it's a system that focuses on attracting
> donors that can put names on buildings.  Slots are full from outside the
> state at huge financial cash flow.   Everyone else can go to a Jr College.
>
> On 10/11/20 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Here’s one I don’t understand.  Not pointing a finger, I genuinely don’t
> understand.  Student loan debt.  Is that the huge issue that people say?
> And if so, is that a new phenomenon?  Why?
>
>
>
> I assume my dad went to college on the GI Bill after WWII.  I worked 20
> hours a week all through college making pizzas and burgers, and had a coop
> job every third quarter or so until the coop jobs disappeared due to a
> recession.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1969%E2%80%931970
>
>
>
> Plus my parents helped out.  I don’t remember my friends in college
> talking about student debt, but maybe they had it and it just wasn’t talked
> about.
>
>
>
> I can speculate some possible reasons for a student debt crisis now:
>
>
>
> - Tuition has gone up
>
> - Part time jobs and coop jobs unavailable or don’t pay enough
>
> - Less financial assistance available
>
> - Predatory for-profit schools
>
> - Lots of kids who couldn’t find jobs in the Great Recession went to
> school or pursued advanced degrees instead
>
>
>
> None of these seem like adequate explanations.  College is too expensive,
> not sure how much it has gone up adjusted for inflation.  You’d think with
> online instruction and extensive use of low paid adjunct professors they
> could keep costs down.  Certainly dorms, food and other amenities are a lot
> fancier than when I was in college, maybe those

Re: [AFMUG] I miss

2020-10-12 Thread Ken Hohhof

Wow, those people seem a little … entitled.  Good thing people aren’t like that 
now.  Shade!

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 9:50 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I miss

I imagine something more like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kdRdzxdZQ

bp

On 10/11/2020 9:01 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Business opportunity:  telepresence tourism.

I’m imagining a self-driving tour bus full of telepresence robots stopping at 
all the tourist destinations, and the robots get out and their humans back home 
in their VR headsets drive them around to sightsee.  Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Arc 
de Triomphe, Versailles, Notre Dame.  Not sure about wine and food tasting.  
Maybe telepresence technology has evolved since the Shelbot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d4qKZpYybI 
 =youtu.be

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I miss

Just get a VR headset and you can travel all over the world virtually!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 6:58 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Not being able to travel.  Watching Emily in Paris on Netflix.  Been there many 
times.  Nice get away with my daughter that lives in England..  someday this 
shall end.  Damn.  I sure as hell hope I can travel next fallX
Sent from my iPhone
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] I miss

2020-10-12 Thread Bill Prince


  
  
I imagine something more like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kdRdzxdZQ
  

bp

On 10/11/2020 9:01 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
Business opportunity:  telepresence
  tourism.
 
I’m imagining a self-driving tour bus full
  of telepresence robots stopping at all the tourist
  destinations, and the robots get out and their humans back
  home in their VR headsets drive them around to sightsee. 
  Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Arc de Triomphe, Versailles, Notre
  Dame.  Not sure about wine and food tasting.  Maybe
  telepresence technology has evolved since the Shelbot.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d4qKZpYybI=youtu.be
 

  From: AF
 On Behalf Of Ryan
Ray
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] I miss

 

  Just get a VR headset and you can travel
all over the world virtually!

 

  
On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 6:58 PM Chuck
  McCown  wrote:
  
  

  Not being able to travel.  Watching Emily in Paris on
  Netflix.  Been there many times.  Nice get away with my
  daughter that lives in England..  someday this shall end. 
  Damn.  I sure as hell hope I can travel next fallX
  Sent from my iPhone
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice

2020-10-12 Thread Josh Luthman

Toughbooks and Thinkpads.  It's an option on them and I buy used.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:51 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> What laptops are you buying that they don’t have blue tooth?
>
> On Oct 12, 2020, at 9:38 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Proprietary works better than Bluetooth for sure.  It's more likely to
> have a USB port on your laptop than Bluetooth, too.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 4:16 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, it really isn't that hard to find Bluetooth mice, but in
>> experience, it's true that they don't work as well as the proprietary
>> stuff... Which is probably why those are more common.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe in-store, but without even going to amazon.com or bestbuy.com, if
>>> I search staples.com for Bluetooth mouse there are tons for free
>>> delivery Oct. 13.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Let’s face it, how many people walk into a store these days looking for
>>> a mouse, Bluetooth or not?  Remember when we used to give out logo
>>> mousepads?  Back when we had AOL signup disks and personal websites were on
>>> Geocities.  Stores are not going to stock something they only sell one of
>>> per month, not when you can order it online and get it next day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:36 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. BT mice are very hard to find.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 11, 2020, at 12:34 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> do you ever shop on the internet?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 8:56 AM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> We have this cool protocol built into pretty much every laptop, new
>>> desktop and mobile devices called BlueTooth.
>>>
>>> Why does every keyboard and mouse manufacturer see fit to make their
>>> device only work with their proprietary wireless dongle?
>>>
>>> You used to be able to find Bluetooth mice. Lately in the last few years
>>> they seem to be like hen’s teeth.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice

2020-10-12 Thread Matt Hoppes

What laptops are you buying that they don’t have blue tooth?

> On Oct 12, 2020, at 9:38 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> 
> Proprietary works better than Bluetooth for sure.  It's more likely to have a 
> USB port on your laptop than Bluetooth, too.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 4:16 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>> Yeah, it really isn't that hard to find Bluetooth mice, but in experience, 
>> it's true that they don't work as well as the proprietary stuff... Which is 
>> probably why those are more common. 
>> 
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> Maybe in-store, but without even going to amazon.com or bestbuy.com, if I 
>>> search staples.com for Bluetooth mouse there are tons for free delivery 
>>> Oct. 13.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Let’s face it, how many people walk into a store these days looking for a 
>>> mouse, Bluetooth or not?  Remember when we used to give out logo mousepads? 
>>>  Back when we had AOL signup disks and personal websites were on Geocities. 
>>>  Stores are not going to stock something they only sell one of per month, 
>>> not when you can order it online and get it next day.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:36 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Yes. BT mice are very hard to find. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 11, 2020, at 12:34 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> do you ever shop on the internet?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 8:56 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We have this cool protocol built into pretty much every laptop, new desktop 
>>> and mobile devices called BlueTooth. 
>>> 
>>> Why does every keyboard and mouse manufacturer see fit to make their device 
>>> only work with their proprietary wireless dongle?
>>> 
>>> You used to be able to find Bluetooth mice. Lately in the last few years 
>>> they seem to be like hen’s teeth. 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
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>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>> AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice

2020-10-12 Thread Josh Luthman

Proprietary works better than Bluetooth for sure.  It's more likely to have
a USB port on your laptop than Bluetooth, too.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 4:16 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Yeah, it really isn't that hard to find Bluetooth mice, but in experience,
> it's true that they don't work as well as the proprietary stuff... Which is
> probably why those are more common.
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Maybe in-store, but without even going to amazon.com or bestbuy.com, if
>> I search staples.com for Bluetooth mouse there are tons for free
>> delivery Oct. 13.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let’s face it, how many people walk into a store these days looking for a
>> mouse, Bluetooth or not?  Remember when we used to give out logo
>> mousepads?  Back when we had AOL signup disks and personal websites were on
>> Geocities.  Stores are not going to stock something they only sell one of
>> per month, not when you can order it online and get it next day.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:36 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes. BT mice are very hard to find.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2020, at 12:34 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> do you ever shop on the internet?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 8:56 AM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>> We have this cool protocol built into pretty much every laptop, new
>> desktop and mobile devices called BlueTooth.
>>
>> Why does every keyboard and mouse manufacturer see fit to make their
>> device only work with their proprietary wireless dongle?
>>
>> You used to be able to find Bluetooth mice. Lately in the last few years
>> they seem to be like hen’s teeth.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] I miss

2020-10-12 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

I have been thinking the same thing.

I'm 2019, I spent nearly 3 months in hotel rooms between work and
pleasure.  Basically was a week a month somewhere.

In 2020, the only trip we've taken other than a couple nearby weekend
camping trips was to Vegas for CES in January.

My biannual trip to Munich for a trade show was supposed to be next month.
  We normally will take a few days before and after to play tourist in some
other part of europe.   Not gonna happen this year.

I'm also missing my fall pilgrimage to Vegas for WISPAPALOOZA which also
usually means a visit to my parents.  I guess wispa is doing something but
I have pretty much decided that based on various risk factors I should stay
home at least until this hopefully settles down mid 2021.

Which doesn't help fix my travel withdrawals.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 7:58 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

>
> Not being able to travel.  Watching Emily in Paris on Netflix.  Been there
> many times.  Nice get away with my daughter that lives in England..
> someday this shall end.  Damn.  I sure as hell hope I can travel next fallX
> Sent from my iPhone
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] fun size Paydays

2020-10-12 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

Something has to be going on to account for the seeming increase in both
severity and quantity of peanut allergies.

I am personally allergic to both peanuts and tree nuts.   In my case it was
apparently  pretty obvious when my mother fed me my first and only peanut
butter sandwich.  She says that by the time she had put the peanut butter
jar away in the kitchen and had returned to the dining room,  not only had
I got it all over my face but my eye had mostly swollen shut.

I'm fortunate that my response is isn't as strong as others.  I can
tolerate it being in the room although I am definitely not a fan of strong
nuts smell.   If bite info something which has nuts in it I typically know
right away as I have a very quick histamine reaction although it's not
strong enough to cause any severe issues.

If I eat something with a lower concentration sometimes I'll not notice it
untill I've eaten a fair amount,  in which case I find a prescription
strength dose of benadryl will arrest any long term reaction.  I'd prefer
not to repeat the experience I had of a kindergarten school lunch exposure
where they used peanut oil in the bun for a sloppy joe.   Being in
kindergarten they served me half a bun open face, and the minor amount of
oil in that bun caused a head to toe rash the next day.

As I'm sure is the case with others with allergies,  I read a lot of labels
and avoid foods which I don't know the safety of.   For example I generally
avoid the dessert table at conferences.   It really isn't a big deal,  it
just means I have to be more cautious when eating.  About the only place I
find it really bothers me is when traveling internationally as I'm not
familiar with a lot of the food and the language barrier causes problems
for me when I'm trying to determine if there are any applicable allergens
in my food.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 7:08 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I've also heard that there's an increasing amount of evidence that many
> peanut allergy sufferers are allergic because they didn't have enough
> peanuts as a child.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"can...@believewireless.net" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 11, 2020 7:57:59 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] fun size Paydays
>
> I was reading that the best way to build up a tolerance to a peanut
> allergy is to eat a very tiny amount daily
> and build up over time. They have to be eaten every day to maintain
> tolerance or you can go back to the
> beginning. In this way, if someone accidentally ingests something with
> nuts, the reaction is rather mild.
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 8:41 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I don't know if it's worth fussing over the peanut allergies like we
>> sometimes do.  If the kid gets anaphylactic they better learn to read the
>> package.  If they're so allergic they can't be in the same room with a
>> peanut then in the long run they're just screwed.
>>
>> My son has a shellfish allergy.  My wife drilled it into his head: he has
>> to read the labels, know what counts as a shellfish, check for the cross
>> contamination warnings etc.  He carries the Epi-pen at all times in a
>> backpack.it's his own little Jr EDC bag now where he has his pocket
>> knife and first aid kit.  He's fine.  If anything he's over-prepared.
>> People get all, "oh shellfish allergy, don't worry I'll change everything
>> to accommodate your little snowflake."  and I'm annoyed like why did we
>> bother training the snowflake not to be a snowflake if you're just gonna
>> treat him like a snowflake?
>>
>> Skittles seems safe right, but some mofo's are allergic to red dye.  I'm
>> betting that red skittle ain't naturally red.  You can't take care of
>> everybody.
>>
>>
>> On 10/9/2020 9:42 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> At the grocery store I saw bulk packages of fun size Paydays (also
>> Snickers).  Very tempting.  However, I thought:
>>
>>
>>
>> a)  There probably won’t be trick-or-treaters this year
>>
>> b)  With my luck I’d give one to a kid with peanut allergies
>>
>> c)  I’d end up eating them
>>
>>
>>
>> I usually give out the little bags of Skittles, although one year I gave
>> out superhero Pez dispensers, the kids thought I was some crazy old coot.
>> Last year I ordered some little Halloween coloring books and crayons, my
>> son thought that was so lame he refused

Re: [AFMUG] I miss

2020-10-12 Thread Steve Jones

have you watched spaceforce? same issue with the global handshake handjobs.
we humans would find a way to make it perverse

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 11:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Business opportunity:  telepresence tourism.
>
>
>
> I’m imagining a self-driving tour bus full of telepresence robots stopping
> at all the tourist destinations, and the robots get out and their humans
> back home in their VR headsets drive them around to sightsee.  Eiffel
> Tower, Louvre, Arc de Triomphe, Versailles, Notre Dame.  Not sure about
> wine and food tasting.  Maybe telepresence technology has evolved since the
> Shelbot.
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d4qKZpYybI=youtu.be
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:33 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] I miss
>
>
>
> Just get a VR headset and you can travel all over the world virtually!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 6:58 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
> Not being able to travel.  Watching Emily in Paris on Netflix.  Been there
> many times.  Nice get away with my daughter that lives in England..
> someday this shall end.  Damn.  I sure as hell hope I can travel next fallX
> Sent from my iPhone
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] I miss

2020-10-12 Thread Ryan Ray

I like this dream. Can't wait for 5g to operate our robot shells.



On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Business opportunity:  telepresence tourism.
>
>
>
> I’m imagining a self-driving tour bus full of telepresence robots stopping
> at all the tourist destinations, and the robots get out and their humans
> back home in their VR headsets drive them around to sightsee.  Eiffel
> Tower, Louvre, Arc de Triomphe, Versailles, Notre Dame.  Not sure about
> wine and food tasting.  Maybe telepresence technology has evolved since the
> Shelbot.
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d4qKZpYybI=youtu.be
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:33 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] I miss
>
>
>
> Just get a VR headset and you can travel all over the world virtually!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 6:58 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
> Not being able to travel.  Watching Emily in Paris on Netflix.  Been there
> many times.  Nice get away with my daughter that lives in England..
> someday this shall end.  Damn.  I sure as hell hope I can travel next fallX
> Sent from my iPhone
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

Re: [AFMUG] Brigham Young University's Internet Measurement and Anti-Abuse Laboratory

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Re: [AFMUG] drop splicers

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Re: [AFMUG] DIY Broadband rocks!

Re: [AFMUG] Brigham Young University's Internet Measurement and Anti-Abuse Laboratory

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

[AFMUG] Brigham Young University's Internet Measurement and Anti-Abuse Laboratory

[AFMUG] DIY Broadband rocks!

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

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Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Re: [AFMUG] OT good to be a boomer

Re: [AFMUG] I miss

Re: [AFMUG] I miss

Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice

Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice

Re: [AFMUG] OT: external keyboards and mice

Re: [AFMUG] I miss

Re: [AFMUG] fun size Paydays

Re: [AFMUG] I miss

Re: [AFMUG] I miss

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