Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Jason McKemie]

Pretty different IMO.

This was an attack on our federal capitol with the intent of subverting the
will of the voters, incited by the sitting president.

I certainly don't support the thugs that trashed other peoples' businesses
in the other situations, but this is not the same.

On Wednesday, January 6, 2021, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to remain
> civil to do so.
>
> The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and
> Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.
>
> Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.
>
> No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> youre no fun dad
>
> Lent?
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of
>> F words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>
>> That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
>> so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
>> no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
>> outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
>> consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
>> to be very little that can be done to fix it.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I
>>> take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
>>> more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
>>> agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
>>> either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.
>>> I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
>>> reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
>>> honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today.
>>> Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
>>> Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>>
>>>
>>> Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
>>> truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
>>> thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
>>> being a fool.
>>>
>>> The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:
>>>
>>> an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.
>>> it's a coup.
>>> Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
>>> every voter the same, it's not an "election".
>>> Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that
>>> is intolerable.
>>>
>>> hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth
>>>
>>> Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
>>> commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.
>>>
>>> All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
>>> only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
>>> warn us -- saw it or believed in it.
>>>
>>> I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:
>>>
>>> “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
>>> purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
>>> inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to
>>> reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are
>>> being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to
>>> repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of
>>> probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil
>>> oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even
>>> destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if
>>> you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended
>>> to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple
>>>
>>> You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump..

Re: [AFMUG] OT:

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Please, no F words.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 6, 2021, at 8:25 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> 
> I agree Bill
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 4:56 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>> I call it sedition.
>> 
>> The vast (vast) majority of the mob was from people outside of town. The 
>> pictures I saw had no people of color as part of the chaos. It was simply a 
>> mob breaking into the capitol building and taking things. If there had been 
>> even a dozen people of color (or antifa of BLM) the consequences would have 
>> been drastically different.
>> 
>> I don't think it's racist for a white cop to shoot a white woman who is part 
>> of a mob, but I don't know who was shot (and killed) or who shot her.
>> 
>> I should also point out that concrete and marble do not burn.
>> 
>> Numerous people & groups are now talking about the 25th amendment. If it is 
>> invoked, OCP would be not be able to return to office before it could be 
>> brought before the house or senate.
>> 
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:19 PM Jaime Solorza  
>>> wrote:
>>> Condolences to family of last who died today...
>>> George Bush called it an Insurrection ...
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:30 PM Steve Jones  wrote:
 go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
 
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza  
> wrote:
> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev 
> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
> 
> Go ahead and get off this list
> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it 
> was going to be wild ...
> So fuck them to hell.
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones  
>> wrote:
>> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, 
>> unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the 
>> same. god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today 
>> and historically
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>>  wrote:
>>> WTF...third world country tactics...
>>> Insurrection...
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
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 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Jaime Solorza]

I agree Bill

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 4:56 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I call it sedition.
>
> The vast (vast) majority of the mob was from people outside of town. The
> pictures I saw had no people of color as part of the chaos. It was simply a
> mob breaking into the capitol building and taking things. If there had been
> even a dozen people of color (or antifa of BLM) the consequences would have
> been drastically different.
>
> I don't think it's racist for a white cop to shoot a white woman who is
> part of a mob, but I don't know who was shot (and killed) or who shot her.
>
> I should also point out that concrete and marble do not burn.
>
> Numerous people & groups are now talking about the 25th amendment. If it
> is invoked, OCP would be not be able to return to office before it could be
> brought before the house or senate.
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Condolences to family of last who died today...
>> George Bush called it an Insurrection ...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:30 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
 predicted it... Trump enabled it.

 Go ahead and get off this list
 Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
 This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
 was going to be wild ...
 So fuck them to hell.

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
> unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the 
> same.
> god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
> historically
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WTF...third world country tactics...
>> Insurrection...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT

[Ryan Ray]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AHCfZTRGiI

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 5:00 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScSEXRwUqQ
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 6:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Please kill this thread.  We have had several unsubscribe today, the most
>> notable Ken.
>>
>> F words in a subject line.
>> Political vitriol.
>> There are plenty of other places for this kind of stuff.
>>
>> I thought we were over it, I guess not.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:55 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>
>> I call it sedition.
>>
>> The vast (vast) majority of the mob was from people outside of town. The
>> pictures I saw had no people of color as part of the chaos. It was simply a
>> mob breaking into the capitol building and taking things. If there had been
>> even a dozen people of color (or antifa of BLM) the consequences would have
>> been drastically different.
>>
>> I don't think it's racist for a white cop to shoot a white woman who is
>> part of a mob, but I don't know who was shot (and killed) or who shot her.
>>
>> I should also point out that concrete and marble do not burn.
>>
>> Numerous people & groups are now talking about the 25th amendment. If it
>> is invoked, OCP would be not be able to return to office before it could be
>> brought before the house or senate.
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Condolences to family of last who died today...
>>> George Bush called it an Insurrection ...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:30 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>
> Go ahead and get off this list
> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said
> it was going to be wild ...
> So fuck them to hell.
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
>> unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the 
>> same.
>> god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
>> historically
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> WTF...third world country tactics...
>>> Insurrection...
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT

[Steve Jones]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScSEXRwUqQ

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 6:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Please kill this thread.  We have had several unsubscribe today, the most
> notable Ken.
>
> F words in a subject line.
> Political vitriol.
> There are plenty of other places for this kind of stuff.
>
> I thought we were over it, I guess not.
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>
> I call it sedition.
>
> The vast (vast) majority of the mob was from people outside of town. The
> pictures I saw had no people of color as part of the chaos. It was simply a
> mob breaking into the capitol building and taking things. If there had been
> even a dozen people of color (or antifa of BLM) the consequences would have
> been drastically different.
>
> I don't think it's racist for a white cop to shoot a white woman who is
> part of a mob, but I don't know who was shot (and killed) or who shot her.
>
> I should also point out that concrete and marble do not burn.
>
> Numerous people & groups are now talking about the 25th amendment. If it
> is invoked, OCP would be not be able to return to office before it could be
> brought before the house or senate.
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Condolences to family of last who died today...
>> George Bush called it an Insurrection ...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:30 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
 predicted it... Trump enabled it.

 Go ahead and get off this list
 Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
 This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
 was going to be wild ...
 So fuck them to hell.

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
> unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the 
> same.
> god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
> historically
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WTF...third world country tactics...
>> Insurrection...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Please kill this thread.  We have had several unsubscribe today, the most 
notable Ken.

F words in a subject line.
Political vitriol.
There are plenty of other places for this kind of stuff.  

I thought we were over it, I guess not.  


From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

I call it sedition. 

The vast (vast) majority of the mob was from people outside of town. The 
pictures I saw had no people of color as part of the chaos. It was simply a mob 
breaking into the capitol building and taking things. If there had been even a 
dozen people of color (or antifa of BLM) the consequences would have been 
drastically different.

I don't think it's racist for a white cop to shoot a white woman who is part of 
a mob, but I don't know who was shot (and killed) or who shot her.

I should also point out that concrete and marble do not burn.

Numerous people & groups are now talking about the 25th amendment. If it is 
invoked, OCP would be not be able to return to office before it could be 
brought before the house or senate.

--

bp

part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com



On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:19 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:

  Condolences to family of last who died today... 
  George Bush called it an Insurrection ...


  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:30 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev 
predicted it... Trump enabled it. 

  Go ahead and get off this list
  Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
  This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it 
was going to be wild ...
  So fuck them to hell.

  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, 
unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same. god 
this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and historically

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

  WTF...third world country tactics... 
  Insurrection...
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Bill Prince]

I call it sedition.

The vast (vast) majority of the mob was from people outside of town. The
pictures I saw had no people of color as part of the chaos. It was simply a
mob breaking into the capitol building and taking things. If there had been
even a dozen people of color (or antifa of BLM) the consequences would have
been drastically different.

I don't think it's racist for a white cop to shoot a white woman who is
part of a mob, but I don't know who was shot (and killed) or who shot her.

I should also point out that concrete and marble do not burn.

Numerous people & groups are now talking about the 25th amendment. If it is
invoked, OCP would be not be able to return to office before it could be
brought before the house or senate.

--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Condolences to family of last who died today...
> George Bush called it an Insurrection ...
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:30 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
>>> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>>>
>>> Go ahead and get off this list
>>> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
>>> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
>>> was going to be wild ...
>>> So fuck them to hell.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
 unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same.
 god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
 historically

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> WTF...third world country tactics...
> Insurrection...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Jaime Solorza]

Condolences to family of last who died today...
George Bush called it an Insurrection ...


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:30 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
>> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>>
>> Go ahead and get off this list
>> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
>> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
>> was going to be wild ...
>> So fuck them to hell.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
>>> unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same.
>>> god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
>>> historically
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 WTF...third world country tactics...
 Insurrection...
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Colin Stanners]

I can see why... There's infinite forums on the internet that are full of,
and perfect hosts for, endless acrimonious political debate and immature
speech. Those are well outside of the AFMUG WISP/FISP topics, I would argue
even outside of the "nearly-WISP-related" OT threads.


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 5:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Sadly, it appears Ken has unsubscribed...
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> I remember back in the 90s when the reds had both houses of congress and
> the presidency.
>
> Funny, they did not seem to enjoy a railroad track for anything they could
> think of.  Bills still had to battle through.  It took both sides.  It will
> not be any different for the blues this this time.
>
> There really are good folks on both sides and the system really does work
> for the most part.
>
> Sadly, today is not unusual...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Washington,_D.C.,_riots
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:52 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> [image: 20202021.jpg]
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to
>> remain civil to do so.
>>
>> The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and
>> Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.
>>
>> Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.
>>
>> No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>>
>> youre no fun dad
>>
>> Lent?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch
>>> of F words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>>
>>> That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
>>> so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
>>> no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
>>> outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
>>> consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
>>> to be very little that can be done to fix it.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I
 take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
 more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
 agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
 either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.
 I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
 reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
 honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today.
 Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
 Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list


 --
 *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
 *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 *Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit


 Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
 truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
 thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
 being a fool.

 The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard
 enough.


 On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:

 an election that is not conducted according to law is not an
 election.   it's a coup.
 Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
 every voter the same, it's not an "election".
 Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened...
 that is intolerable.

 hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

 Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
 commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

 All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
 only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
 warn us -- saw it or believed in it.

 I'll sign off with this, 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Bill Prince]

Bummer. I appreciate his wry humor.

--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Sadly, it appears Ken has unsubscribed...
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> I remember back in the 90s when the reds had both houses of congress and
> the presidency.
>
> Funny, they did not seem to enjoy a railroad track for anything they could
> think of.  Bills still had to battle through.  It took both sides.  It will
> not be any different for the blues this this time.
>
> There really are good folks on both sides and the system really does work
> for the most part.
>
> Sadly, today is not unusual...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Washington,_D.C.,_riots
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:52 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> [image: 20202021.jpg]
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to
>> remain civil to do so.
>>
>> The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and
>> Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.
>>
>> Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.
>>
>> No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>>
>> youre no fun dad
>>
>> Lent?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch
>>> of F words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>>
>>> That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
>>> so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
>>> no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
>>> outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
>>> consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
>>> to be very little that can be done to fix it.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I
 take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
 more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
 agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
 either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.
 I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
 reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
 honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today.
 Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
 Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list


 --
 *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
 *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 *Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit


 Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
 truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
 thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
 being a fool.

 The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard
 enough.


 On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:

 an election that is not conducted according to law is not an
 election.   it's a coup.
 Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
 every voter the same, it's not an "election".
 Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened...
 that is intolerable.

 hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

 Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
 commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

 All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
 only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
 warn us -- saw it or believed in it.

 I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

 “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
 purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
 inform, but

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Steve Jones]

call him and tell him to come back

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 5:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Sadly, it appears Ken has unsubscribed...
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:59 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> I remember back in the 90s when the reds had both houses of congress and
> the presidency.
>
> Funny, they did not seem to enjoy a railroad track for anything they could
> think of.  Bills still had to battle through.  It took both sides.  It will
> not be any different for the blues this this time.
>
> There really are good folks on both sides and the system really does work
> for the most part.
>
> Sadly, today is not unusual...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Washington,_D.C.,_riots
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:52 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> [image: 20202021.jpg]
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to
>> remain civil to do so.
>>
>> The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and
>> Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.
>>
>> Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.
>>
>> No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>>
>> youre no fun dad
>>
>> Lent?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch
>>> of F words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>>
>>> That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
>>> so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
>>> no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
>>> outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
>>> consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
>>> to be very little that can be done to fix it.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I
 take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
 more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
 agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
 either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.
 I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
 reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
 honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today.
 Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
 Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list


 --
 *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
 *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 *Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
 *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit


 Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
 truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
 thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
 being a fool.

 The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard
 enough.


 On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:

 an election that is not conducted according to law is not an
 election.   it's a coup.
 Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
 every voter the same, it's not an "election".
 Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened...
 that is intolerable.

 hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

 Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
 commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

 All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
 only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
 warn us -- saw it or believed in it.

 I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

 “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
 purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
 inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the le

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Sadly, it appears Ken has unsubscribed...



From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

I remember back in the 90s when the reds had both houses of congress and the 
presidency.  

Funny, they did not seem to enjoy a railroad track for anything they could 
think of.  Bills still had to battle through.  It took both sides.  It will not 
be any different for the blues this this time.  

There really are good folks on both sides and the system really does work for 
the most part.  

Sadly, today is not unusual...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Washington,_D.C.,_riots

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB




On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to remain 
civil to do so.  

  The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and 
Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.

  Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.  

  No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

  youre no fun dad 

  Lent?

  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of F 
words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no 
so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable, no 
matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not outright 
dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their consumers into 
supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems to be very little 
that can be done to fix it.


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House  wrote:

  " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I 
take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even more 
the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political agenda.  
This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on either side can 
really provide an objective argument on politics today.  I'd include myself in 
that group therefore I tend to just delete or not reply to these group messages 
because it only furthers the divide.   I honestly dont see any long term 
solution to the divide we have today.   Mainstream media isn't going to help.  
Congress isn't going to help and Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is 
anyone's opinion on this list 



--

  From: "Adam Moffett" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit


  Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of 
truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so thoroughly 
fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop being a fool.

  The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.



  On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:

an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.  
 it's a coup. 
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats 
every voter the same, it's not an "election".
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... 
that is intolerable. 

hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a 
commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and 
only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come warn 
us -- saw it or believed in it.

I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the 
purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, 
but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the 
better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the 
most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies 
themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to 
obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I remember back in the 90s when the reds had both houses of congress and the 
presidency.  

Funny, they did not seem to enjoy a railroad track for anything they could 
think of.  Bills still had to battle through.  It took both sides.  It will not 
be any different for the blues this this time.  

There really are good folks on both sides and the system really does work for 
the most part.  

Sadly, today is not unusual...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Washington,_D.C.,_riots

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB




On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to remain 
civil to do so.  

  The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and 
Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.

  Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.  

  No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

  youre no fun dad 

  Lent?

  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of F 
words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no 
so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable, no 
matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not outright 
dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their consumers into 
supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems to be very little 
that can be done to fix it.


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House  wrote:

  " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I 
take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even more 
the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political agenda.  
This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on either side can 
really provide an objective argument on politics today.  I'd include myself in 
that group therefore I tend to just delete or not reply to these group messages 
because it only furthers the divide.   I honestly dont see any long term 
solution to the divide we have today.   Mainstream media isn't going to help.  
Congress isn't going to help and Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is 
anyone's opinion on this list 



--

  From: "Adam Moffett" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit


  Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of 
truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so thoroughly 
fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop being a fool.

  The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.



  On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:

an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.  
 it's a coup. 
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats 
every voter the same, it's not an "election".
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... 
that is intolerable. 

hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a 
commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and 
only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come warn 
us -- saw it or believed in it.

I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the 
purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, 
but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the 
better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the 
most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies 
themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to 
obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to 
resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated 
liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has 
the same ef

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Steve Jones]

[image: 20202021.jpg]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to remain
> civil to do so.
>
> The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and
> Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.
>
> Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.
>
> No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB
>
> youre no fun dad
>
> Lent?
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of
>> F words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>
>> That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
>> so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
>> no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
>> outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
>> consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
>> to be very little that can be done to fix it.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I
>>> take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
>>> more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
>>> agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
>>> either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.
>>> I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
>>> reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
>>> honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today.
>>> Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
>>> Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>>
>>>
>>> Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
>>> truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
>>> thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
>>> being a fool.
>>>
>>> The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:
>>>
>>> an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.
>>> it's a coup.
>>> Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
>>> every voter the same, it's not an "election".
>>> Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that
>>> is intolerable.
>>>
>>> hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth
>>>
>>> Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
>>> commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.
>>>
>>> All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
>>> only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
>>> warn us -- saw it or believed in it.
>>>
>>> I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:
>>>
>>> “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
>>> purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
>>> inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to
>>> reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are
>>> being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to
>>> repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of
>>> probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil
>>> oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even
>>> destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if
>>> you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended
>>> to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple
>>>
>>> You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>
> Go ahead and get off this list
> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said
> it was going to be wild ...
> So fuck the

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit



Our side is always right.  Your side is always wrong.

Our side is saving the country.  Your side is destroying the country.

Our side is kind, accepting, forgiving people. Your side are a bunch of unruly animals.

Our side has peaceful, meaningful protest.  Your side has riots.

Our side will re-united the country. Your side will divide the country.


The above statements are 100% true no matter what side you are on.  We are a divided country.  Personally I see no real solution to this.  Not even a pandemic with almost 400K dead was able bring us together.  If anything it divided us even more.  I don't know what the end game will be, but I'm sure we will not all be singing kumbayah any time soon.  It is going to take some real leadership to pull this country back together.  Unfortunately, all the leadership we have had is worried about keeping their power at any cost.   I don't think it will happen anytime soon.  

--
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com

--

Wednesday, January 6, 2021, 5:21:00 PM, you wrote:





That could be true, but this election _was_ conducted according to the law, every agency involved has avowed, re-avowed, and stated until they are exhausted saying it that this was a good just election.   The Justice department said this was one of the cleanest elections.   
    A President that espouses people to upset the legal process of transition of government is autogolpe.   Keep telling yourself it was a bad election.   IF you found that you couldn't vote, that would be a different cup of tea.

On 1/6/21 2:05 PM, justsumname wrote:




an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.   it's a coup. 
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats every voter the same, it's not an "election".
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that is intolerable. 

hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come warn us -- saw it or believed in it.

I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple

You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
--


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones  wrote:




go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:




Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev predicted it... Trump enabled it. 

Go ahead and get off this list
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it was going to be wild ...
So fuck them to hell.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones  wrote:




IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same. god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and historically

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:




WTF...third world country tactics... 
Insurrection...
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com











-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Craig House]

Thank you 


From: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Cc: "Chuck McCown"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:37:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB 

Sorry. I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to remain civil 
to do so. 
The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and 
Seattle crap largely done by the other side. Give and take. 
Folks wanna blow off steam. It will be history tomorrow. 
No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side. 
From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB 
youre no fun dad 
Lent? 
On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote: 



Kill thread. We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of F 
words in a subject line. There have been complaints. 
From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit 
That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no so-called 
news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable, no matter which 
side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not outright dishonest) to 
either fit their own view or manipulate their consumers into supporting a 
particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems to be very little that can be 
done to fix it. 
On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House  wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

" a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top" Is exactly how I take 
every bit of news from every outlet on every station. It is even more the case 
when the source is a politician or anyone with a political agenda. This 
includes most of the people on this list. Very few on either side can really 
provide an objective argument on politics today. I'd include myself in that 
group therefore I tend to just delete or not reply to these group messages 
because it only furthers the divide. I honestly dont see any long term solution 
to the divide we have today. Mainstream media isn't going to help. Congress 
isn't going to help and Trump isn't going to help. Neither is anyone's opinion 
on this list 

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit 


Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of truth 
with a layer of bullshit on top. That so many people are so thoroughly fooled 
by it is the most distressing part. Look closer. Stop being a fool. 

The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough. 


On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election. it's a 
coup. 
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats every 
voter the same, it's not an "election". 
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that is 
intolerable. 
[ http://hereistheevidence.com/ | hereistheevidence.com ] --- in case you dare 
open your mind to truth 
Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a commie 
plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message. 
All that is left is communism or war. That was the plan all along and only 
'crazy' people -- and people who escaped communist societies to come warn us -- 
saw it or believed in it. 
I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End: 
“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose 
of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to 
humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When 
people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious 
lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they 
lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in 
some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is 
thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to 
control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect 
and is intended to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple 
You arrogant asses, you've killed us! 
-- 
On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind 
On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev predicted 
it... Trump enabled it. 
Go ahead and get off this list 
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans... 
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it was 
going to be wild ... 
So fuck them to hell. 
On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, unlik

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Sorry.  I don’t want to go back to the days of lent, but we have to remain 
civil to do so.  

The DC crap today does not hold a candle in magnitude to the Portland and 
Seattle crap largely done by the other side.  Give and take.

Folks wanna blow off steam.  It will be history tomorrow.  

No need to pollute our list here with that energy, from either side.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

youre no fun dad 

Lent?

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of F 
words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.  

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

  That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no so-called 
news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable, no matter which 
side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not outright dishonest) to 
either fit their own view or manipulate their consumers into supporting a 
particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems to be very little that can be 
done to fix it.


  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House  wrote:

" a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I take 
every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even more the 
case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political agenda.  This 
includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on either side can really 
provide an objective argument on politics today.  I'd include myself in that 
group therefore I tend to just delete or not reply to these group messages 
because it only furthers the divide.   I honestly dont see any long term 
solution to the divide we have today.   Mainstream media isn't going to help.  
Congress isn't going to help and Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is 
anyone's opinion on this list 





From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit


Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of truth 
with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so thoroughly fooled 
by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop being a fool.

The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.



On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:

  an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.   
it's a coup. 
  Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats 
every voter the same, it's not an "election".
  Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that 
is intolerable. 

  hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

  Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a 
commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

  All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and 
only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come warn 
us -- saw it or believed in it.

  I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

  “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the 
purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, 
but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the 
better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the 
most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies 
themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to 
obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to 
resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated 
liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has 
the same effect and is intended to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple


  You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
  --



  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

  Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev 
predicted it... Trump enabled it. 

  Go ahead and get off this list
  Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
  This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said 
it was going to be wild ...
  So fuck them to hell.

  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, 
unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Steve Jones]

youre no fun dad

Lent?

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of
> F words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>
> That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
> so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
> no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
> outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
> consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
> to be very little that can be done to fix it.
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House 
> wrote:
>
>> " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I
>> take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
>> more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
>> agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
>> either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.
>> I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
>> reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
>> honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today.
>> Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
>> Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>>
>>
>> Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
>> truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
>> thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
>> being a fool.
>>
>> The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:
>>
>> an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.
>> it's a coup.
>> Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
>> every voter the same, it's not an "election".
>> Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that
>> is intolerable.
>>
>> hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth
>>
>> Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
>> commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.
>>
>> All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
>> only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
>> warn us -- saw it or believed in it.
>>
>> I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:
>>
>> “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
>> purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
>> inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to
>> reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are
>> being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to
>> repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of
>> probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil
>> oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even
>> destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if
>> you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended
>> to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple
>>
>> You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
>> --
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
 predicted it... Trump enabled it.

 Go ahead and get off this list
 Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
 This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
 was going to be wild ...
 So fuck them to hell.

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
> unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the 
> same.
> god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
> historically
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WTF...third world country tactics...
>> Insurrection...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmu

Re: [AFMUG] OT: FB

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Kill thread.  We had been well behaved but nobody wants to see a bunch of F 
words in a subject line.  There have been complaints.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no so-called 
news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable, no matter which 
side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not outright dishonest) to 
either fit their own view or manipulate their consumers into supporting a 
particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems to be very little that can be 
done to fix it.


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House  wrote:

  " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I take 
every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even more the 
case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political agenda.  This 
includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on either side can really 
provide an objective argument on politics today.  I'd include myself in that 
group therefore I tend to just delete or not reply to these group messages 
because it only furthers the divide.   I honestly dont see any long term 
solution to the divide we have today.   Mainstream media isn't going to help.  
Congress isn't going to help and Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is 
anyone's opinion on this list 



--

  From: "Adam Moffett" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit


  Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of truth 
with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so thoroughly fooled 
by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop being a fool.

  The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.



  On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:

an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.   
it's a coup. 
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats every 
voter the same, it's not an "election".
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that is 
intolerable. 

hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a commie 
plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and 
only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come warn 
us -- saw it or believed in it.

I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the 
purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, 
but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the 
better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the 
most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies 
themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to 
obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to 
resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated 
liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has 
the same effect and is intended to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple


You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
--



On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

  go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev 
predicted it... Trump enabled it. 

Go ahead and get off this list
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it 
was going to be wild ...
So fuck them to hell.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:

  IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, 
unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same. god 
this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and historically

  On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

WTF...third world country tactics... 
Insurrection...
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Mathew Howard]

That's the real problem. I've come to the conclusion that almost no
so-called news having anything to do with politics is honest or reliable,
no matter which side it comes from. Almost all of it is slanted (if not
outright dishonest) to either fit their own view or manipulate their
consumers into supporting a particular agenda. Unfortunately, there seems
to be very little that can be done to fix it.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:17 PM Craig House  wrote:

> " a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top"  Is exactly how I
> take every bit of news from every outlet on every station.   It is even
> more the case when the source is a politician or anyone with a political
> agenda.  This includes most of the people on this list.   Very few on
> either side can really provide an objective argument on politics today.
> I'd include myself in that group therefore I tend to just delete or not
> reply to these group messages because it only furthers the divide.   I
> honestly dont see any long term solution to the divide we have today.
>  Mainstream media isn't going to help.  Congress isn't going to help and
> Trump isn't going to help.  Neither is anyone's opinion on this list
>
>
> --
> *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>
> Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
> truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
> thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
> being a fool.
>
> The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.
>
>
> On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:
>
> an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.
>  it's a coup.
> Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
> every voter the same, it's not an "election".
> Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that
> is intolerable.
>
> hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth
>
> Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
> commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.
>
> All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
> only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
> warn us -- saw it or believed in it.
>
> I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:
>
> “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
> purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
> inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to
> reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are
> being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to
> repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of
> probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil
> oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even
> destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if
> you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended
> to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple
>
> You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
> --
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
>>> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>>>
>>> Go ahead and get off this list
>>> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
>>> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
>>> was going to be wild ...
>>> So fuck them to hell.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
 unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same.
 god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
 historically

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> WTF...third world country tactics...
> Insurrection...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Robert]

That could be true, but this election _was_ conducted according to the 
law, every agency involved has avowed, re-avowed, and stated until they 
are exhausted saying it that this was a good just election.   The 
Justice department said this was one of the cleanest elections.
    A President that espouses people to upset the legal process of 
transition of government is autogolpe.   Keep telling yourself it was a 
bad election.   IF you found that you couldn't vote, that would be a 
different cup of tea.


On 1/6/21 2:05 PM, justsumname wrote:
an election that is not conducted according to law is not an 
election.   it's a coup.
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats 
every voter the same, it's not an "election".
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... 
that is intolerable.


hereistheevidence.com    --- in case you 
dare open your mind to truth


Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a 
commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.


All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along 
and only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies 
to come warn us -- saw it or believed in it.


I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the 
purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not 
to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded 
to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when 
they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are 
forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their 
sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to 
become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, 
and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. 
I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect 
and is intended to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple


You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
--


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump...
Kruchev predicted it... Trump enabled it.

Go ahead and get off this list
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat,
Trump said it was going to be wild ...
So fuck them to hell.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to
quell it, unlike during the biden obama administration
when he didnt demand the same. god this is funny. sad they
havent shot more of these mopes today and historically

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

WTF...third world country tactics...
Insurrection...
-- 
AF mailing list

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Lewis Bergman]

After holding public office, I am convinced that every news article
contains at least three major factual errors. I think mostly they are due
to apathy, laziness, or ignorance. To put it plainly I think fooling people
is just too much effort for most of these people.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 4:10 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
> truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
> thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
> being a fool.
>
> The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.
>
>
> On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:
>
> an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.
>  it's a coup.
> Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
> every voter the same, it's not an "election".
> Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that
> is intolerable.
>
> hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth
>
> Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
> commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.
>
> All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
> only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
> warn us -- saw it or believed in it.
>
> I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:
>
> “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
> purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
> inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to
> reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are
> being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to
> repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of
> probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil
> oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even
> destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if
> you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended
> to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple
>
> You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
> --
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
>>> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>>>
>>> Go ahead and get off this list
>>> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
>>> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
>>> was going to be wild ...
>>> So fuck them to hell.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
 unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same.
 god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
 historically

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> WTF...third world country tactics...
> Insurrection...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Craig House]

" a nugget of truth with a layer of bullshit on top" Is exactly how I take 
every bit of news from every outlet on every station. It is even more the case 
when the source is a politician or anyone with a political agenda. This 
includes most of the people on this list. Very few on either side can really 
provide an objective argument on politics today. I'd include myself in that 
group therefore I tend to just delete or not reply to these group messages 
because it only furthers the divide. I honestly dont see any long term solution 
to the divide we have today. Mainstream media isn't going to help. Congress 
isn't going to help and Trump isn't going to help. Neither is anyone's opinion 
on this list 



From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 4:09:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit 



Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of truth 
with a layer of bullshit on top. That so many people are so thoroughly fooled 
by it is the most distressing part. Look closer. Stop being a fool. 

The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough. 


On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote: 



an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election. it's a 
coup. 
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats every 
voter the same, it's not an "election". 
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that is 
intolerable. 

[ http://hereistheevidence.com/ | hereistheevidence.com ] --- in case you dare 
open your mind to truth 

Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a commie 
plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message. 

All that is left is communism or war. That was the plan all along and only 
'crazy' people -- and people who escaped communist societies to come warn us -- 
saw it or believed in it. 

I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End: 

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose 
of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to 
humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When 
people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious 
lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they 
lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in 
some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is 
thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to 
control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect 
and is intended to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple 

You arrogant asses, you've killed us! 
-- 


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones < [ mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
| thatoneguyst...@gmail.com ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza < [ 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com | losguyswirel...@gmail.com ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev predicted 
it... Trump enabled it. 

Go ahead and get off this list 
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans... 
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it was 
going to be wild ... 
So fuck them to hell. 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones < [ mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com | 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, unlike 
during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same. god this 
is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and historically 

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza < [ 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com | losguyswirel...@gmail.com ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

WTF...third world country tactics... 
Insurrection... 
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[ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ] 
[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 



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[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 

BQ_END

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 

BQ_END

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 

BQ_END



BQ_END

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Adam Moffett]

Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of 
truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so 
thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  
Stop being a fool.


The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.


On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:
an election that is not conducted according to law is not an 
election.   it's a coup.
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats 
every voter the same, it's not an "election".
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... 
that is intolerable.


hereistheevidence.com    --- in case you 
dare open your mind to truth


Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a 
commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.


All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along 
and only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies 
to come warn us -- saw it or believed in it.


I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the 
purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not 
to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded 
to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when 
they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are 
forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their 
sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to 
become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, 
and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. 
I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect 
and is intended to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple


You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
--


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump...
Kruchev predicted it... Trump enabled it.

Go ahead and get off this list
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat,
Trump said it was going to be wild ...
So fuck them to hell.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to
quell it, unlike during the biden obama administration
when he didnt demand the same. god this is funny. sad they
havent shot more of these mopes today and historically

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

WTF...third world country tactics...
Insurrection...
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[justsumname]

an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.
 it's a coup.
Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats every
voter the same, it's not an "election".
Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that is
intolerable.

hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth

Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a commie
plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.

All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
warn us -- saw it or believed in it.

I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to
reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are
being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to
repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of
probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil
oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even
destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if
you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended
to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple

You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
--


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
>> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>>
>> Go ahead and get off this list
>> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
>> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
>> was going to be wild ...
>> So fuck them to hell.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
>>> unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same.
>>> god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
>>> historically
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 WTF...third world country tactics...
 Insurrection...
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Robert]

In Reno, the burning and crap was done by a bunch of proud boy 
agitators.  Embedded in the black live matters protestors.  All the left 
protestors went home at sunset.


On 1/6/21 1:10 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
Wow, didn't see that same rhetoric from you all summer. Where were you 
when cities were burning and businesses burned? This is people making 
their voices heard. No vandalism, no looting, no rioting. They will 
make their point and disperse. If this was the left, the building 
would be on fire and looted by now.


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:


WTF...third world country tactics...
Insurrection...
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Robert]

The last election showed the corruption in the Democratic party.  I 
believe that a bunch of that was fixed. The Democratic party isn't 
saintly in any way.  But they don't pull the crap that was pulled and 
continues to be espoused today.


On 1/6/21 1:43 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
Democrats had one job to win the last election and that was to 
nominate someone less despicable than Donald Trump and they picked 
Hillary Clinton.  What were they thinking?


Jaime Solorza wrote:
Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev 
predicted it... Trump enabled it.


Go ahead and get off this list
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said 
it was going to be wild ...

So fuck them to hell.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


    IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell
    it, unlike during the biden obama administration when he
    didnt demand the same. god this is funny. sad they havent shot
    more of these mopes today and historically

    On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza
    mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


    WTF...third world country tactics...
    Insurrection...
    --     AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Steve Jones]

its good stuff.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:45 PM James Howard  wrote:

> This all comes from your *[AFMUG] Ot: jaime, my sapporo trumps your
> tecate*
>
>
>
> It was just a matter of time before being “trumped” had to burst out
> somewhere……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit
>
>
>
> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>
>
>
> Go ahead and get off this list
>
> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
>
> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
> was going to be wild ...
>
> So fuck them to hell.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, unlike
> during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same. god
> this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
> historically
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> WTF...third world country tactics...
>
> Insurrection...
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com 
> is on your allow list.*
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[James Howard]

This all comes from your [AFMUG] Ot: jaime, my sapporo trumps your tecate

It was just a matter of time before being "trumped" had to burst out 
somewhere..

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev predicted 
it... Trump enabled it.

Go ahead and get off this list
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it was 
going to be wild ...
So fuck them to hell.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, unlike 
during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same. god this 
is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and historically

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
WTF...third world country tactics...
Insurrection...
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From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Jay Weekley]

Democrats had one job to win the last election and that was to nominate 
someone less despicable than Donald Trump and they picked Hillary 
Clinton.  What were they thinking?


Jaime Solorza wrote:
Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev 
predicted it... Trump enabled it.


Go ahead and get off this list
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said 
it was going to be wild ...

So fuck them to hell.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell
it, unlike during the biden obama administration when he
didnt demand the same. god this is funny. sad they havent shot
more of these mopes today and historically

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

WTF...third world country tactics...
Insurrection...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Steve Jones]

go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>
> Go ahead and get off this list
> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
> was going to be wild ...
> So fuck them to hell.
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
>> unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same.
>> god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
>> historically
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> WTF...third world country tactics...
>>> Insurrection...
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Jaime Solorza]

Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
predicted it... Trump enabled it.

Go ahead and get off this list
Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it was
going to be wild ...
So fuck them to hell.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, unlike
> during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same. god
> this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
> historically
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> WTF...third world country tactics...
>> Insurrection...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: F***ing Bullshit

[Colin Stanners]

Welcome to 2021 Everyone!


On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> WTF...third world country tactics...
> Insurrection...
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[James Howard]

That was obviously different.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 3:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

victimology, bigotry, and hypocrisy - the american left. wasnt it the kavanaugh 
hearing they tried to break down the doors inside the capitol?

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:11 PM Cameron Crum 
mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>> wrote:
Wow, didn't see that same rhetoric from you all summer. Where were you when 
cities were burning and businesses burned? This is people making their voices 
heard. No vandalism, no looting, no rioting. They will make their point and 
disperse. If this was the left, the building would be on fire and looted by now.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
WTF...third world country tactics...
Insurrection...
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To: 
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From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Steve Jones]

victimology, bigotry, and hypocrisy - the american left. wasnt it the
kavanaugh hearing they tried to break down the doors inside the capitol?

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:11 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> Wow, didn't see that same rhetoric from you all summer. Where were you
> when cities were burning and businesses burned? This is people making their
> voices heard. No vandalism, no looting, no rioting. They will make their
> point and disperse. If this was the left, the building would be on fire and
> looted by now.
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> WTF...third world country tactics...
>> Insurrection...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Cameron Crum]

Wow, didn't see that same rhetoric from you all summer. Where were you when
cities were burning and businesses burned? This is people making their
voices heard. No vandalism, no looting, no rioting. They will make their
point and disperse. If this was the left, the building would be on fire and
looted by now.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> WTF...third world country tactics...
> Insurrection...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Steve Jones]

IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it, unlike
during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same. god
this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
historically

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> WTF...third world country tactics...
> Insurrection...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Ha

[Steve Jones]

yep, those evil racist cops shot a white woman in the neck.

crazy idea, shoot everybody who storms the capitol, and we wouldnt have had
to deal with it happenning all the time for the last 12 years.

you know who didnt get shot by those racist police? people who didnt storm
the capitol, crazy how that works

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Gun shots !!
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:38 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> So serious question, if this pony show somehow succeeded in getting the
>> potus ec votes discarded, but not the vp ec votes. Would that make magilla
>> trumps vp?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:55 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> PET
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Yes!!!
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Ha

[Jaime Solorza]

Gun shots !!

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:38 AM Steve Jones  wrote:

> So serious question, if this pony show somehow succeeded in getting the
> potus ec votes discarded, but not the vp ec votes. Would that make magilla
> trumps vp?
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:55 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> PET
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes!!!
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Ha

[Steve Jones]

So serious question, if this pony show somehow succeeded in getting the
potus ec votes discarded, but not the vp ec votes. Would that make magilla
trumps vp?

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 11:55 AM Steve Jones  wrote:

> PET
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes!!!
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Why do customers refuse to test things?

[Lewis Bergman]

We would take your problems and pay you a commission.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 10:19 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm about fed up with phone systems.  Back in the day, I didn't
> understand why the phone system vendors charged $10k to install a $1200
> phone system, but now I get it.  You can have tens of man-hours invested
> in making the tiniest phone system work exactly the way someone wants.
> I'm starting to think you have to plan on being there in person for
> awhile so they can immediately tell you what they don't like instead of
> stewing on it for a week. I also think when there's a week of back and
> forth on these adjustments we think of it as spending a week to make it
> perfect for them, but when they talk about it it'll be the story of
> their phones being all screwed up for a week.
>
> So My new thinking is that I can't go low on price.  I have to go high
> so that I can afford to be there putting time into it, and if I can't
> afford that time investment then I should let somebody else handle it.
> And if they don't want to pay high, then they can figure out something
> else.  Maybe I could go low if they would agree to a recurring
> maintenance contract, but I think most of the time they won't.
>
> It does help to have a conversation up front about how things should
> work, how calls should flow, what the IVR should do, etc. After I have
> that conversation I write up an outline and/or flow chart describing my
> interpretation of what we just talked about and email it to them.  A lot
> of the time I think they just agree with the written form without
> reading it because we STILL end up with confusion sometimes, but at
> least we start out closer to the mark.  It doesn't help that there's a
> terminology that is often unfamiliar to themthey say "voicemail",
> but they really meant an auto attendant or IVR or something else.
>
> Frankly, it's easier to just sell internet and let someone else be the
> "phone guy", but for some reason people keep coming to us about phones.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 1/6/2021 10:51 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > I notice this mostly when I do phone setups.  Try to get everything
> > configured the way the customer explains to you, then you install it
> > and tell the customer to test it and make sure it's doing what they
> > want.  They say 'Yea, yea, it's fine' As they're putting on their coat
> > to leave for the day, since you made them stay an extra minute later
> > than they though.  Then you don't hear anything more at all out of
> > them.  Then about 6 weeks later you get a call "THESE PHONES ARE JUST
> > ALL BROKEN, THEY'VE NEVER WORKED RIGHT, YOU NEED TO COME FIX THEM
> > NOW!!!"  Usually it's something stupidly simple like, 4 extensions are
> > ringing for inbound calls, and only 3 should ring. But suddenly it's a
> > crisis of business terminating proportions.
> >
> > Over the holidays a customer with an ancient key system with no
> > answering service wanted us to provide voicemail for any incoming
> > calls for the 2 weeks of the holiday.  OK, no problem, setup the
> > voicemail, and it sent out via email, I tested it with the office
> > Admin before break started, and it was all working fine.  Then the
> > first day of the holiday they wanted to change the email address it
> > was sending the voicemails, to one of the owners.  No problem, but
> > they never bothered to test the new email address, voicemails were
> > getting marked as spam by their system, and they only keep spam for 1
> > day.  After break, they ask where all their voicemails were.  For 2
> > weeks, you were not able to check that it's doing what you want? And
> > it never occurred you that you didn't see any voicemail coming through?
> >
> > These are all small businesses, for something that is so critical to
> > them why don't they check and make sure they're doing what they want?
> > Everyone has a cell phone they can use to dial in, it would take them
> > about 2 minutes to check, but they just refuse to.
> >
> > Ironically, many of these are also the same customers that will
> > religiously run speedtest.net on the hour, every hour, and let you
> > know if that little number on the screen is less than the last time it
> > ran.
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Ha

[Steve Jones]

PET

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 11:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Yes!!!
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[AFMUG] OT: Ha

[Jaime Solorza]

Yes!!!
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Re: [AFMUG] Why do customers refuse to test things?

[Nate Burke]

We don't sell phone systems anymore, we charge monthly per handset, and 
we retain ownership of the system.  We sell it as 'Any hardware 
problems, we'll replace it no questions ask' When they get the quote of 
$10k vs our couple $100/month we usually win.  Usually it's less than 
what their AT&T Bill was.  And then at least then we get recurring 
revenue forever to deal with them.  The terminology thing is a big 
problem.  'Message' could = IVR or Announcement, or voicemail.  And 
don't get started on Hold vs parking, or Intercom. The last one I did, 
the customer wanted stacked IVR's, he even knew what he wanted.  But He 
could never remember to hit # when he was done making the IVR 
Recordings, so doing the recordings took about 4 hours.


On 1/6/2021 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm about fed up with phone systems.  Back in the day, I didn't 
understand why the phone system vendors charged $10k to install a 
$1200 phone system, but now I get it.  You can have tens of man-hours 
invested in making the tiniest phone system work exactly the way 
someone wants.  I'm starting to think you have to plan on being there 
in person for awhile so they can immediately tell you what they don't 
like instead of stewing on it for a week. I also think when there's a 
week of back and forth on these adjustments we think of it as spending 
a week to make it perfect for them, but when they talk about it it'll 
be the story of their phones being all screwed up for a week.


So My new thinking is that I can't go low on price.  I have to go high 
so that I can afford to be there putting time into it, and if I can't 
afford that time investment then I should let somebody else handle 
it.  And if they don't want to pay high, then they can figure out 
something else.  Maybe I could go low if they would agree to a 
recurring maintenance contract, but I think most of the time they won't.


It does help to have a conversation up front about how things should 
work, how calls should flow, what the IVR should do, etc. After I have 
that conversation I write up an outline and/or flow chart describing 
my interpretation of what we just talked about and email it to them.  
A lot of the time I think they just agree with the written form 
without reading it because we STILL end up with confusion sometimes, 
but at least we start out closer to the mark.  It doesn't help that 
there's a terminology that is often unfamiliar to themthey say 
"voicemail", but they really meant an auto attendant or IVR or 
something else.


Frankly, it's easier to just sell internet and let someone else be the 
"phone guy", but for some reason people keep coming to us about phones.


-Adam


On 1/6/2021 10:51 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I notice this mostly when I do phone setups.  Try to get everything 
configured the way the customer explains to you, then you install it 
and tell the customer to test it and make sure it's doing what they 
want.  They say 'Yea, yea, it's fine' As they're putting on their 
coat to leave for the day, since you made them stay an extra minute 
later than they though.  Then you don't hear anything more at all out 
of them.  Then about 6 weeks later you get a call "THESE PHONES ARE 
JUST ALL BROKEN, THEY'VE NEVER WORKED RIGHT, YOU NEED TO COME FIX 
THEM NOW!!!"  Usually it's something stupidly simple like, 4 
extensions are ringing for inbound calls, and only 3 should ring. But 
suddenly it's a crisis of business terminating proportions.


Over the holidays a customer with an ancient key system with no 
answering service wanted us to provide voicemail for any incoming 
calls for the 2 weeks of the holiday.  OK, no problem, setup the 
voicemail, and it sent out via email, I tested it with the office 
Admin before break started, and it was all working fine.  Then the 
first day of the holiday they wanted to change the email address it 
was sending the voicemails, to one of the owners.  No problem, but 
they never bothered to test the new email address, voicemails were 
getting marked as spam by their system, and they only keep spam for 1 
day.  After break, they ask where all their voicemails were.  For 2 
weeks, you were not able to check that it's doing what you want? And 
it never occurred you that you didn't see any voicemail coming through?


These are all small businesses, for something that is so critical to 
them why don't they check and make sure they're doing what they 
want?  Everyone has a cell phone they can use to dial in, it would 
take them about 2 minutes to check, but they just refuse to.


Ironically, many of these are also the same customers that will 
religiously run speedtest.net on the hour, every hour, and let you 
know if that little number on the screen is less than the last time 
it ran.







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Why do customers refuse to test things?

[Steve Jones]

Im so happy we got out of phone systems. Im the only one here that knows
them in any depth, im the only one with the panasonic software, hell, im
the only one with a buttset now. When a system request comes in if its a
problematic customer I always dont have access to my software, or dont
recall how to do this or that.

I always wanted to have a sign off sheet customers were required to sign,
built off the engineering requests. I did this one time and really never
had issue with the customer other than small fortivoice being nothing but
garbage. never understood why we didnt go to the checkoff method across the
board.

Its all water under the bridge now

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 10:23 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> In regards to testing:  give them an online portal so they make their
> own changes.  Then they have to own it.
>
> If you touched it, then whatever happens is all your fault (in their
> mind).  So if it needs testing, unfortunately I think that'll have to be
> on the service provider because, as you observed, the customer won't do it.
>
>
> On 1/6/2021 10:51 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > I notice this mostly when I do phone setups.  Try to get everything
> > configured the way the customer explains to you, then you install it
> > and tell the customer to test it and make sure it's doing what they
> > want.  They say 'Yea, yea, it's fine' As they're putting on their coat
> > to leave for the day, since you made them stay an extra minute later
> > than they though.  Then you don't hear anything more at all out of
> > them.  Then about 6 weeks later you get a call "THESE PHONES ARE JUST
> > ALL BROKEN, THEY'VE NEVER WORKED RIGHT, YOU NEED TO COME FIX THEM
> > NOW!!!"  Usually it's something stupidly simple like, 4 extensions are
> > ringing for inbound calls, and only 3 should ring. But suddenly it's a
> > crisis of business terminating proportions.
> >
> > Over the holidays a customer with an ancient key system with no
> > answering service wanted us to provide voicemail for any incoming
> > calls for the 2 weeks of the holiday.  OK, no problem, setup the
> > voicemail, and it sent out via email, I tested it with the office
> > Admin before break started, and it was all working fine.  Then the
> > first day of the holiday they wanted to change the email address it
> > was sending the voicemails, to one of the owners.  No problem, but
> > they never bothered to test the new email address, voicemails were
> > getting marked as spam by their system, and they only keep spam for 1
> > day.  After break, they ask where all their voicemails were.  For 2
> > weeks, you were not able to check that it's doing what you want? And
> > it never occurred you that you didn't see any voicemail coming through?
> >
> > These are all small businesses, for something that is so critical to
> > them why don't they check and make sure they're doing what they want?
> > Everyone has a cell phone they can use to dial in, it would take them
> > about 2 minutes to check, but they just refuse to.
> >
> > Ironically, many of these are also the same customers that will
> > religiously run speedtest.net on the hour, every hour, and let you
> > know if that little number on the screen is less than the last time it
> > ran.
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Tim Hardy]

Exactly, this diagram illustrates the issue perfectly. Thanks Adam!


> On Jan 6, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Rightyour license says you're the red lines.  You're actually the blue 
> line.  Somebody coordinating another link the area might conclude there's no 
> interference on their new path and be wrong because you're not transmitting 
> what you are licensed for.  There might never be a problem, but if there is 
> then that's exactly when you'll get in trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Not a perfect sketch, but it's the right general idea.
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/6/2021 10:43 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> You could be interfering with other licensed users on the same frequency 
>> that frequency coordination showed would not be affected based on EIRP, 
>> distance, antenna sidelobes, etc.  It’s not like you have a nationwide 
>> license to use that frequency.
>>  
>> From: AF   On 
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 9:17 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>>  
>> Not from a legal perspective, but from a technical perspective.
>>  
>> If an 80+40 = 112 setup was no worse at the channel edges, why would it 
>> matter what happened in the middle?
>>  
>>  
>> More asking than arguing.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>   
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>   
>>  
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> From: "Tim Hardy" mailto:thardy...@gmail.com>>
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" > >
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 8:49:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>> 
>> Part 101 was derived from the old Part 21 that was developed in the late 60s 
>> / early 70s to facilitate equal sharing of the bands between the incumbents 
>> (AT&T, Bell System, WU, GTE, United, Continental) and the newly approved 
>> Specialized Common Carriers (MCI et al). Prior to 21.100(d) - the Prior 
>> Coordination rule and requirement (now 101.103d) - the FCC acted as sole 
>> arbiter of all interference related issues. New proposals would be filed, 
>> placed on Public Notice and all incumbents had 30-days to file formal 
>> petitions or let them go. The FCC was inundated with these filings, and 
>> processing ground to a complete halt. The FCC did not have a database, the 
>> license data was kept on paper in large filing cabinets, and they certainly 
>> didn’t have programs (let alone computers) to calculate all of these cases. 
>> It was recognized early in this process that the FCC should get out of the 
>> process and leave this pre-filing analysis and assignment to industry so 
>> they convened a meeting with incumbents (affectionally known as “The Gang of 
>> Twelve” by those of us that were there) to develop rules and requirements to 
>> promote efficiency and enable access to the spectrum to all qualified 
>> applicants.
>>  
>> Spectrum efficiency in fixed bands is dependent on standardized frequency 
>> plans, standard transmit - receive separations, required antenna 
>> performance, required loading or bit efficiency, maximum power levels, etc. 
>> etc. and all of the rules were developed with these thoughts in-mind. Bear 
>> in-mind that everything was analog at the time and there are still vestiges 
>> of these differing requirements in the rules. There have been at least two 
>> or three major NPRMs with updates and changes over the years, but the basic 
>> framework really hasn't changed much as it was based on sound EMI-EMC 
>> principles.
>>  
>> Sorry for the long-winded history lesson, but I hope it helps give some 
>> background behind Part 101. The specific issue discussed here, coordinating 
>> and licensing an 80 MHz channel pair along with a 40 MHz pair in an effort 
>> to block out 120 MHz chunk, and then use one radio at 112 MHz bandwidth 
>> within that 120 MHz, does indeed violate at least two and possibly three 
>> major rule parts. The rules involved here would be 101.103, 101.109 & 
>> 101.147, plus the scheme would result in an actual transmit frequency that 
>> has not been coordinated and more importantly, is not on the station 
>> license. As an example, the path is coordinated with 80 MHz channel pair 
>> 10835.0 / 11325.0 MHz & 40 MHz channel pair 10895.0 / 11385.0 MHz to cover 
>> 120 MHz of contiguous spectrum. The actual transmit frequency using 112 MHz 
>> bandwidth cannot be a

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Tim Hardy]

It would need to be studied in-depth as there are numerous channel plans (10, 
30, 40 & 80 MHz) all with different overlaps. The interference potential 
between these two would be completely different. For the example previously 
listed with a transmitted frequency pair 10855.0 / 11345.0, the adjacent and 
semi-adjacent channel roll-offs are in completely different places. From a very 
basic sense, this would be a waste of spectrum (112 MHz radio falsely usurping 
120 MHz of spectrum) and I know that a similar thing was done with 56 MHz 
bandwidth radios in an 80 MHz slot at 11 GHz or a 60 MHz one in lower 6 GHz. 
However, this spectrum is not wasted as the actual occupied bandwidth is used 
in the analysis, not the channel bandwidth.

> On Jan 6, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> Not from a legal perspective, but from a technical perspective.
> 
> If an 80+40 = 112 setup was no worse at the channel edges, why would it 
> matter what happened in the middle?
> 
> 
> More asking than arguing.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Tim Hardy" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 8:49:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
> 
> Part 101 was derived from the old Part 21 that was developed in the late 60s 
> / early 70s to facilitate equal sharing of the bands between the incumbents 
> (AT&T, Bell System, WU, GTE, United, Continental) and the newly approved 
> Specialized Common Carriers (MCI et al). Prior to 21.100(d) - the Prior 
> Coordination rule and requirement (now 101.103d) - the FCC acted as sole 
> arbiter of all interference related issues. New proposals would be filed, 
> placed on Public Notice and all incumbents had 30-days to file formal 
> petitions or let them go. The FCC was inundated with these filings, and 
> processing ground to a complete halt. The FCC did not have a database, the 
> license data was kept on paper in large filing cabinets, and they certainly 
> didn’t have programs (let alone computers) to calculate all of these cases. 
> It was recognized early in this process that the FCC should get out of the 
> process and leave this pre-filing analysis and assignment to industry so they 
> convened a meeting with incumbents (affectionally known as “The Gang of 
> Twelve” by those of us that were there) to develop rules and requirements to 
> promote efficiency and enable access to the spectrum to all qualified 
> applicants.
> 
> Spectrum efficiency in fixed bands is dependent on standardized frequency 
> plans, standard transmit - receive separations, required antenna performance, 
> required loading or bit efficiency, maximum power levels, etc. etc. and all 
> of the rules were developed with these thoughts in-mind. Bear in-mind that 
> everything was analog at the time and there are still vestiges of these 
> differing requirements in the rules. There have been at least two or three 
> major NPRMs with updates and changes over the years, but the basic framework 
> really hasn't changed much as it was based on sound EMI-EMC principles.
> 
> Sorry for the long-winded history lesson, but I hope it helps give some 
> background behind Part 101. The specific issue discussed here, coordinating 
> and licensing an 80 MHz channel pair along with a 40 MHz pair in an effort to 
> block out 120 MHz chunk, and then use one radio at 112 MHz bandwidth within 
> that 120 MHz, does indeed violate at least two and possibly three major rule 
> parts. The rules involved here would be 101.103, 101.109 & 101.147, plus the 
> scheme would result in an actual transmit frequency that has not been 
> coordinated and more importantly, is not on the station license. As an 
> example, the path is coordinated with 80 MHz channel pair 10835.0 / 11325.0 
> MHz & 40 MHz channel pair 10895.0 / 11385.0 MHz to cover 120 MHz of 
> contiguous spectrum. The actual transmit frequency using 112 MHz bandwidth 
> cannot be any of the above channel pairs since the emission would extend 
> beyond the edge of that 120 MHz chunk. In this example, the user would have 
> to operate on 10855.0 / 11345.0 MHz, a channel pair that has not been 
> coordinated and is not on the license, and subject to substantial fine and 
> forfeiture if caught.
> 
> If someone is hell-bent on doing this, the only legal way is to coordinate 
> the actual transmit frequency along with

Re: [AFMUG] Why do customers refuse to test things?

[Adam Moffett]

In regards to testing:  give them an online portal so they make their 
own changes.  Then they have to own it.


If you touched it, then whatever happens is all your fault (in their 
mind).  So if it needs testing, unfortunately I think that'll have to be 
on the service provider because, as you observed, the customer won't do it.



On 1/6/2021 10:51 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I notice this mostly when I do phone setups.  Try to get everything 
configured the way the customer explains to you, then you install it 
and tell the customer to test it and make sure it's doing what they 
want.  They say 'Yea, yea, it's fine' As they're putting on their coat 
to leave for the day, since you made them stay an extra minute later 
than they though.  Then you don't hear anything more at all out of 
them.  Then about 6 weeks later you get a call "THESE PHONES ARE JUST 
ALL BROKEN, THEY'VE NEVER WORKED RIGHT, YOU NEED TO COME FIX THEM 
NOW!!!"  Usually it's something stupidly simple like, 4 extensions are 
ringing for inbound calls, and only 3 should ring. But suddenly it's a 
crisis of business terminating proportions.


Over the holidays a customer with an ancient key system with no 
answering service wanted us to provide voicemail for any incoming 
calls for the 2 weeks of the holiday.  OK, no problem, setup the 
voicemail, and it sent out via email, I tested it with the office 
Admin before break started, and it was all working fine.  Then the 
first day of the holiday they wanted to change the email address it 
was sending the voicemails, to one of the owners.  No problem, but 
they never bothered to test the new email address, voicemails were 
getting marked as spam by their system, and they only keep spam for 1 
day.  After break, they ask where all their voicemails were.  For 2 
weeks, you were not able to check that it's doing what you want? And 
it never occurred you that you didn't see any voicemail coming through?


These are all small businesses, for something that is so critical to 
them why don't they check and make sure they're doing what they want?  
Everyone has a cell phone they can use to dial in, it would take them 
about 2 minutes to check, but they just refuse to.


Ironically, many of these are also the same customers that will 
religiously run speedtest.net on the hour, every hour, and let you 
know if that little number on the screen is less than the last time it 
ran.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Why do customers refuse to test things?

[Adam Moffett]

I'm about fed up with phone systems.  Back in the day, I didn't 
understand why the phone system vendors charged $10k to install a $1200 
phone system, but now I get it.  You can have tens of man-hours invested 
in making the tiniest phone system work exactly the way someone wants.  
I'm starting to think you have to plan on being there in person for 
awhile so they can immediately tell you what they don't like instead of 
stewing on it for a week. I also think when there's a week of back and 
forth on these adjustments we think of it as spending a week to make it 
perfect for them, but when they talk about it it'll be the story of 
their phones being all screwed up for a week.


So My new thinking is that I can't go low on price.  I have to go high 
so that I can afford to be there putting time into it, and if I can't 
afford that time investment then I should let somebody else handle it.  
And if they don't want to pay high, then they can figure out something 
else.  Maybe I could go low if they would agree to a recurring 
maintenance contract, but I think most of the time they won't.


It does help to have a conversation up front about how things should 
work, how calls should flow, what the IVR should do, etc. After I have 
that conversation I write up an outline and/or flow chart describing my 
interpretation of what we just talked about and email it to them.  A lot 
of the time I think they just agree with the written form without 
reading it because we STILL end up with confusion sometimes, but at 
least we start out closer to the mark.  It doesn't help that there's a 
terminology that is often unfamiliar to themthey say "voicemail", 
but they really meant an auto attendant or IVR or something else.


Frankly, it's easier to just sell internet and let someone else be the 
"phone guy", but for some reason people keep coming to us about phones.


-Adam


On 1/6/2021 10:51 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I notice this mostly when I do phone setups.  Try to get everything 
configured the way the customer explains to you, then you install it 
and tell the customer to test it and make sure it's doing what they 
want.  They say 'Yea, yea, it's fine' As they're putting on their coat 
to leave for the day, since you made them stay an extra minute later 
than they though.  Then you don't hear anything more at all out of 
them.  Then about 6 weeks later you get a call "THESE PHONES ARE JUST 
ALL BROKEN, THEY'VE NEVER WORKED RIGHT, YOU NEED TO COME FIX THEM 
NOW!!!"  Usually it's something stupidly simple like, 4 extensions are 
ringing for inbound calls, and only 3 should ring. But suddenly it's a 
crisis of business terminating proportions.


Over the holidays a customer with an ancient key system with no 
answering service wanted us to provide voicemail for any incoming 
calls for the 2 weeks of the holiday.  OK, no problem, setup the 
voicemail, and it sent out via email, I tested it with the office 
Admin before break started, and it was all working fine.  Then the 
first day of the holiday they wanted to change the email address it 
was sending the voicemails, to one of the owners.  No problem, but 
they never bothered to test the new email address, voicemails were 
getting marked as spam by their system, and they only keep spam for 1 
day.  After break, they ask where all their voicemails were.  For 2 
weeks, you were not able to check that it's doing what you want? And 
it never occurred you that you didn't see any voicemail coming through?


These are all small businesses, for something that is so critical to 
them why don't they check and make sure they're doing what they want?  
Everyone has a cell phone they can use to dial in, it would take them 
about 2 minutes to check, but they just refuse to.


Ironically, many of these are also the same customers that will 
religiously run speedtest.net on the hour, every hour, and let you 
know if that little number on the screen is less than the last time it 
ran.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Adam Moffett]

Rightyour license says you're the red lines.  You're actually the 
blue line.  Somebody coordinating another link the area might conclude 
there's no interference on their new path and be wrong because you're 
not transmitting what you are licensed for.  There might never be a 
problem, but if there is then that's exactly when you'll get in trouble.


Not a perfect sketch, but it's the right general idea.


On 1/6/2021 10:43 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


You could be interfering with other licensed users on the same 
frequency that frequency coordination showed would not be affected 
based on EIRP, distance, antenna sidelobes, etc.  It’s not like you 
have a nationwide license to use that frequency.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 6, 2021 9:17 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

Not from a legal perspective, but from a technical perspective.

If an 80+40 = 112 setup was no worse at the channel edges, why would 
it matter what happened in the middle?


More asking than arguing.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







*From: *"Tim Hardy" mailto:thardy...@gmail.com>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" >

*Sent: *Wednesday, January 6, 2021 8:49:17 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

Part 101 was derived from the old Part 21 that was developed in the 
late 60s / early 70s to facilitate equal sharing of the bands between 
the incumbents (AT&T, Bell System, WU, GTE, United, Continental) and 
the newly approved Specialized Common Carriers (MCI et al). Prior to 
21.100(d) - the Prior Coordination rule and requirement (now 101.103d) 
- the FCC acted as sole arbiter of all interference related issues. 
New proposals would be filed, placed on Public Notice and all 
incumbents had 30-days to file formal petitions or let them go. The 
FCC was inundated with these filings, and processing ground to a 
complete halt. The FCC did not have a database, the license data was 
kept on paper in large filing cabinets, and they certainly didn’t have 
programs (let alone computers) to calculate all of these cases. It was 
recognized early in this process that the FCC should get out of the 
process and leave this pre-filing analysis and assignment to industry 
so they convened a meeting with incumbents (affectionally known as 
“The Gang of Twelve” by those of us that were there) to develop rules 
and requirements to promote efficiency and enable access to the 
spectrum to all qualified applicants.


Spectrum efficiency in fixed bands is dependent on standardized 
frequency plans, standard transmit - receive separations, required 
antenna performance, required loading or bit efficiency, maximum power 
levels, etc. etc. and all of the rules were developed with these 
thoughts in-mind. Bear in-mind that everything was analog at the time 
and there are still vestiges of these differing requirements in the 
rules. There have been at least two or three major NPRMs with updates 
and changes over the years, but the basic framework really hasn't 
changed much as it was based on sound EMI-EMC principles.


Sorry for the long-winded history lesson, but I hope it helps give 
some background behind Part 101. The specific issue discussed here, 
coordinating and licensing an 80 MHz channel pair along with a 40 MHz 
pair in an effort to block out 120 MHz chunk, and then use one radio 
at 112 MHz bandwidth within that 120 MHz, does indeed violate at least 
two and possibly three major rule parts. The rules involved here would 
be 101.103, 101.109 & 101.147, plus the scheme would result in an 
actual transmit frequency that has not been coordinated and more 
importantly, is not on the station license. As an example, the path is 
coordinated with 80 MHz channel pair 10835.0 / 11325.0 MHz & 40 MHz 
channel pair 10895.0 / 11385.0 MHz to cover 120 MHz of contiguous 
spectrum. The actual transmit frequency using 112 MHz bandwidth cannot 
be any of the above channel pairs since the emission would extend 
beyond the edge of that 120 MHz chunk. In this example, the user would 
have to operate on 10855.0 / 11345.0 MHz, a channel pair that has not 
been coordinated and is not on the license, and subject to substantial 
fine and forfeiture if caught.


If someone is hell-bent on doing this, the only legal way is to 
coordina

[AFMUG] Why do customers refuse to test things?

[Nate Burke]

I notice this mostly when I do phone setups.  Try to get everything 
configured the way the customer explains to you, then you install it and 
tell the customer to test it and make sure it's doing what they want.  
They say 'Yea, yea, it's fine' As they're putting on their coat to leave 
for the day, since you made them stay an extra minute later than they 
though.  Then you don't hear anything more at all out of them.  Then 
about 6 weeks later you get a call "THESE PHONES ARE JUST ALL BROKEN, 
THEY'VE NEVER WORKED RIGHT, YOU NEED TO COME FIX THEM NOW!!!"  Usually 
it's something stupidly simple like, 4 extensions are ringing for 
inbound calls, and only 3 should ring. But suddenly it's a crisis of 
business terminating proportions.


Over the holidays a customer with an ancient key system with no 
answering service wanted us to provide voicemail for any incoming calls 
for the 2 weeks of the holiday.  OK, no problem, setup the voicemail, 
and it sent out via email, I tested it with the office Admin before 
break started, and it was all working fine.  Then the first day of the 
holiday they wanted to change the email address it was sending the 
voicemails, to one of the owners.  No problem, but they never bothered 
to test the new email address, voicemails were getting marked as spam by 
their system, and they only keep spam for 1 day.  After break, they ask 
where all their voicemails were.  For 2 weeks, you were not able to 
check that it's doing what you want? And it never occurred you that you 
didn't see any voicemail coming through?


These are all small businesses, for something that is so critical to 
them why don't they check and make sure they're doing what they want?  
Everyone has a cell phone they can use to dial in, it would take them 
about 2 minutes to check, but they just refuse to.


Ironically, many of these are also the same customers that will 
religiously run speedtest.net on the hour, every hour, and let you know 
if that little number on the screen is less than the last time it ran.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Ken Hohhof]

You could be interfering with other licensed users on the same frequency that 
frequency coordination showed would not be affected based on EIRP, distance, 
antenna sidelobes, etc.  It’s not like you have a nationwide license to use 
that frequency.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 9:17 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

 

Not from a legal perspective, but from a technical perspective.

 

If an 80+40 = 112 setup was no worse at the channel edges, why would it matter 
what happened in the middle?

 

 

More asking than arguing.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Tim Hardy" mailto:thardy...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 8:49:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

Part 101 was derived from the old Part 21 that was developed in the late 60s / 
early 70s to facilitate equal sharing of the bands between the incumbents 
(AT&T, Bell System, WU, GTE, United, Continental) and the newly approved 
Specialized Common Carriers (MCI et al). Prior to 21.100(d) - the Prior 
Coordination rule and requirement (now 101.103d) - the FCC acted as sole 
arbiter of all interference related issues. New proposals would be filed, 
placed on Public Notice and all incumbents had 30-days to file formal petitions 
or let them go. The FCC was inundated with these filings, and processing ground 
to a complete halt. The FCC did not have a database, the license data was kept 
on paper in large filing cabinets, and they certainly didn’t have programs (let 
alone computers) to calculate all of these cases. It was recognized early in 
this process that the FCC should get out of the process and leave this 
pre-filing analysis and assignment to industry so they convened a meeting with 
incumbents (affectionally known as “The Gang of Twelve” by those of us that 
were there) to develop rules and requirements to promote efficiency and enable 
access to the spectrum to all qualified applicants.

 

Spectrum efficiency in fixed bands is dependent on standardized frequency 
plans, standard transmit - receive separations, required antenna performance, 
required loading or bit efficiency, maximum power levels, etc. etc. and all of 
the rules were developed with these thoughts in-mind. Bear in-mind that 
everything was analog at the time and there are still vestiges of these 
differing requirements in the rules. There have been at least two or three 
major NPRMs with updates and changes over the years, but the basic framework 
really hasn't changed much as it was based on sound EMI-EMC principles.

 

Sorry for the long-winded history lesson, but I hope it helps give some 
background behind Part 101. The specific issue discussed here, coordinating and 
licensing an 80 MHz channel pair along with a 40 MHz pair in an effort to block 
out 120 MHz chunk, and then use one radio at 112 MHz bandwidth within that 120 
MHz, does indeed violate at least two and possibly three major rule parts. The 
rules involved here would be 101.103, 101.109 & 101.147, plus the scheme would 
result in an actual transmit frequency that has not been coordinated and more 
importantly, is not on the station license. As an example, the path is 
coordinated with 80 MHz channel pair 10835.0 / 11325.0 MHz & 40 MHz channel 
pair 10895.0 / 11385.0 MHz to cover 120 MHz of contiguous spectrum. The actual 
transmit frequency using 112 MHz bandwidth cannot be any of the above channel 
pairs since the emission would extend beyond the edge of that 120 MHz chunk. In 
this example, the user would have to operate on 10855.0 / 11345.0 MHz, a 
channel pair that has not been coordinated and is not on the license, and 
subject to substantial fine and forfeiture if caught.

 

If someone is hell-bent on doing this, the only legal way is to coordinate the 
actual transmit frequency along with the actual emission bandwidth and 
designator (112M0D7W). The applications would all require at least two rule 
waivers (there are fees for waivers and these are the kind that would require 
assistance from a law firm that regularly works on Communications law - $$) 
along with a substantial technical showing why these waivers are required 
(financial reasons are usually dismissed). Rule waivers automatically eliminate 
conditional authorization and

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Mike Hammett]

Not from a legal perspective, but from a technical perspective. 


If an 80+40 = 112 setup was no worse at the channel edges, why would it matter 
what happened in the middle? 




More asking than arguing. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Tim Hardy"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2021 8:49:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar 

Part 101 was derived from the old Part 21 that was developed in the late 60s / 
early 70s to facilitate equal sharing of the bands between the incumbents 
(AT&T, Bell System, WU, GTE, United, Continental) and the newly approved 
Specialized Common Carriers (MCI et al). Prior to 21.100(d) - the Prior 
Coordination rule and requirement (now 101.103d) - the FCC acted as sole 
arbiter of all interference related issues. New proposals would be filed, 
placed on Public Notice and all incumbents had 30-days to file formal petitions 
or let them go. The FCC was inundated with these filings, and processing ground 
to a complete halt. The FCC did not have a database, the license data was kept 
on paper in large filing cabinets, and they certainly didn’t have programs (let 
alone computers) to calculate all of these cases. It was recognized early in 
this process that the FCC should get out of the process and leave this 
pre-filing analysis and assignment to industry so they convened a meeting with 
incumbents (affectionally known as “The Gang of Twelve” by those of us that 
were there) to develop rules and requirements to promote efficiency and enable 
access to the spectrum to all qualified applicants. 


Spectrum efficiency in fixed bands is dependent on standardized frequency 
plans, standard transmit - receive separations, required antenna performance, 
required loading or bit efficiency, maximum power levels, etc. etc. and all of 
the rules were developed with these thoughts in-mind. Bear in-mind that 
everything was analog at the time and there are still vestiges of these 
differing requirements in the rules. There have been at least two or three 
major NPRMs with updates and changes over the years, but the basic framework 
really hasn't changed much as it was based on sound EMI-EMC principles. 


Sorry for the long-winded history lesson, but I hope it helps give some 
background behind Part 101. The specific issue discussed here, coordinating and 
licensing an 80 MHz channel pair along with a 40 MHz pair in an effort to block 
out 120 MHz chunk, and then use one radio at 112 MHz bandwidth within that 120 
MHz, does indeed violate at least two and possibly three major rule parts. The 
rules involved here would be 101.103, 101.109 & 101.147, plus the scheme would 
result in an actual transmit frequency that has not been coordinated and more 
importantly, is not on the station license. As an example, the path is 
coordinated with 80 MHz channel pair 10835.0 / 11325.0 MHz & 40 MHz channel 
pair 10895.0 / 11385.0 MHz to cover 120 MHz of contiguous spectrum. The actual 
transmit frequency using 112 MHz bandwidth cannot be any of the above channel 
pairs since the emission would extend beyond the edge of that 120 MHz chunk. In 
this example, the user would have to operate on 10855.0 / 11345.0 MHz, a 
channel pair that has not been coordinated and is not on the license, and 
subject to substantial fine and forfeiture if caught. 


If someone is hell-bent on doing this, the only legal way is to coordinate the 
actual transmit frequency along with the actual emission bandwidth and 
designator (112M0D7W). The applications would all require at least two rule 
waivers (there are fees for waivers and these are the kind that would require 
assistance from a law firm that regularly works on Communications law - ) 
along with a substantial technical showing why these waivers are required 
(financial reasons are usually dismissed). Rule waivers automatically eliminate 
conditional authorization and the applicant must wait for formal FCC license 
grant before beginning operation. These kinds of substantial rule waivers can 
take years to make their way through the system and at the end of the day, most 
are denied. 


The better way to attack this, if there really is a pressing need, is to get 
enough licensees, trade associations, etc. interested in it and file a request 
for rule making. This process also takes years unless it has a ton of support 
along with political influence. Good Luck! 





On Jan 5, 2021, at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 



I’ll let Tim respond, but here’s my take. It’s not a rule saying you can’t do 
it, but rather a license to do something else. Frequency coordinators and other 
users of the band rely on you following the license you obtained. To do 
something else, based on a totally different ETSI standard that isn’t even 
valid in this country, is not what you’re licensed for. 

Reducing the equ

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Tim Hardy]

Part 101 was derived from the old Part 21 that was developed in the late 60s / 
early 70s to facilitate equal sharing of the bands between the incumbents 
(AT&T, Bell System, WU, GTE, United, Continental) and the newly approved 
Specialized Common Carriers (MCI et al). Prior to 21.100(d) - the Prior 
Coordination rule and requirement (now 101.103d) - the FCC acted as sole 
arbiter of all interference related issues. New proposals would be filed, 
placed on Public Notice and all incumbents had 30-days to file formal petitions 
or let them go. The FCC was inundated with these filings, and processing ground 
to a complete halt. The FCC did not have a database, the license data was kept 
on paper in large filing cabinets, and they certainly didn’t have programs (let 
alone computers) to calculate all of these cases. It was recognized early in 
this process that the FCC should get out of the process and leave this 
pre-filing analysis and assignment to industry so they convened a meeting with 
incumbents (affectionally known as “The Gang of Twelve” by those of us that 
were there) to develop rules and requirements to promote efficiency and enable 
access to the spectrum to all qualified applicants.

Spectrum efficiency in fixed bands is dependent on standardized frequency 
plans, standard transmit - receive separations, required antenna performance, 
required loading or bit efficiency, maximum power levels, etc. etc. and all of 
the rules were developed with these thoughts in-mind. Bear in-mind that 
everything was analog at the time and there are still vestiges of these 
differing requirements in the rules. There have been at least two or three 
major NPRMs with updates and changes over the years, but the basic framework 
really hasn't changed much as it was based on sound EMI-EMC principles.

Sorry for the long-winded history lesson, but I hope it helps give some 
background behind Part 101. The specific issue discussed here, coordinating and 
licensing an 80 MHz channel pair along with a 40 MHz pair in an effort to block 
out 120 MHz chunk, and then use one radio at 112 MHz bandwidth within that 120 
MHz, does indeed violate at least two and possibly three major rule parts. The 
rules involved here would be 101.103, 101.109 & 101.147, plus the scheme would 
result in an actual transmit frequency that has not been coordinated and more 
importantly, is not on the station license. As an example, the path is 
coordinated with 80 MHz channel pair 10835.0 / 11325.0 MHz & 40 MHz channel 
pair 10895.0 / 11385.0 MHz to cover 120 MHz of contiguous spectrum. The actual 
transmit frequency using 112 MHz bandwidth cannot be any of the above channel 
pairs since the emission would extend beyond the edge of that 120 MHz chunk. In 
this example, the user would have to operate on 10855.0 / 11345.0 MHz, a 
channel pair that has not been coordinated and is not on the license, and 
subject to substantial fine and forfeiture if caught.

If someone is hell-bent on doing this, the only legal way is to coordinate the 
actual transmit frequency along with the actual emission bandwidth and 
designator (112M0D7W). The applications would all require at least two rule 
waivers (there are fees for waivers and these are the kind that would require 
assistance from a law firm that regularly works on Communications law - ) 
along with a substantial technical showing why these waivers are required 
(financial reasons are usually dismissed). Rule waivers automatically eliminate 
conditional authorization and the applicant must wait for formal FCC license 
grant before beginning operation. These kinds of substantial rule waivers can 
take years to make their way through the system and at the end of the day, most 
are denied.

The better way to attack this, if there really is a pressing need, is to get 
enough licensees, trade associations, etc. interested in it and file a request 
for rule making. This process also takes years unless it has a ton of support 
along with political influence. Good Luck!

> On Jan 5, 2021, at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I’ll let Tim respond, but here’s my take.  It’s not a rule saying you can’t 
> do it, but rather a license to do something else.  Frequency coordinators and 
> other users of the band rely on you following the license you obtained.  To 
> do something else, based on a totally different ETSI standard that isn’t even 
> valid in this country, is not what you’re licensed for.
>  
> Reducing the equipment certification and frequency coordination process down 
> to just the channel width from the brochure oversimplifies things.  Your 
> license specifies a certain modulation, and the radio will have certain out 
> of band emissions, when used according to the license.  The coordinated EIRP 
> also assumes the 2 separate channels, not one wide channel.
>  
> Before you got the license, you weren’t allowed to use the band at all.  Once 
> you get the license, you are authorized to use the band as