Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder

[Cameron Crum]

Cost vs a mig welder?


On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 9:35 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Hand held.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 23, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Hand held? Or like a CNC machine?
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Chuck McCown via AF"
> Sent: 3/23/2024 6:27:37 PM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Cc: "Chuck McCown"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
>
> A lot like using a glue gun.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> ?
> I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and
> hydraulic tank welding.  I was very skeptical that such a small bead would
> be strong enough.  But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect
> weld.  Even over dirty and rusty metal.  Super fast.  You only need glasses
> or goggles.  Not even that bright.  Brazing is brighter.  And with minimal
> heat to the workpiece too.
>
> Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass bead
> oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits.
>
> The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals could
> come in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the
> controller was wiggled a bit.  And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on
> properly so it was wiggley.  I noticed the problems immediately.  While
> they did a good job centering the controller in the middle of the control
> panel, it had to be offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there
> was no chance of things ever touching.
>
> So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular offset
> hole in it for the temperature controller.  Then cut some notches in the
> panel to accommodate the offset.  Then put some tiny weld beads on the back
> side so there are no welds visible from the outside.  Super nice repair
> job.  Those tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in
> there and did them.
>
> I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the patch.
> It was a half inch away from the weld.  Nothing got hot enough to smoke or
> melt or deform.
>
> So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal.  And it will do aluminum
> too.  It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than a mig
> welder but that is no big deal.  Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy nitrogen
> filters to make it yourself.
>
> If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument
> panel, this is the tool you want.
> From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro.
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse

[Cameron Crum]

We had a lot of hijinks in the lab as well. Today though, if there was a
pop like that, half the class would have to go to trauma counseling and
need a safe space to do their work the rest of the year.

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> When I was in college we had something called cooperative education or
> “coop jobs”, basically a semester in industry as a paid intern.  At my coop
> job you typically arrived at 8am, grabbed coffee from the machine, and
> turned on the power strip at your lab bench.
>
>
>
> They never tired of sticking an electrolytic capacitor into one of the
> outlets on your power strip so it would explode.
>
>
>
> Almost as much fun as a banana potato.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 7, 2024 10:16 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse
>
>
>
> I always used a potato.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 2/7/2024 7:48 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Variac is just an autotransformer with a variable tap. Not surprising you
> can swap input and output. Watch out for voltage ratings though. And wrong
> gender plugs.
>
> I thought it was potato in the tailpipe.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Cameron Crum"
> Sent: 2/7/2024 9:15:03 AM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse
>
> Ah the old 'variac in reverse' trick, similar to a banana in the tailpipe.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 6:05?PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Was testing a repair to a 480 volt induction heater today.  One of our
> employees decided to blow the dirt out of it, took the cover off and got a
> copper tube across an inductor to case ground.  It was probably 800 VDC at
> that spot.  Discharged the capacitor.  Sounded like a gunshot.  Tripped a
> 125 amp 480 volt breaker at our power service panel.  Turning it off at the
> front switch just turns off the control circuitry.  Everything else is hot
> unless you kill the breaker on the back of the unit.  I think the kid is
> still shaking.
>
>
>
> In any event, took the power supply to the lab.  Used a variac to put 0 to
> 130 volts across each leg with a clamp on volt meter on it as I tested.
> Never got past 10 volts and was drawing 3-5 amps.  3 phase bridge rectifier
> was totally shorted out.  Exactly as expected.  These things take raw 480
> VAC, rectifier, 800 VDC cap and then on to the IGBT transistors that chop
> it into ac etc.  I was hoping it was just the rectifier.
>
>
>
> So we got the replacement today.  Put it in and started testing.  No
> current, all the way up to 130 volts.  But the cap was charging.  So far
> looks good.  Told my sons to take it back and hook it up to 480.  My son
> Frank said “just reverse your variac and use it to step up”.  I initially
> refused to believe it would work.  Then I thought through it a bit and
> decided that it actually should work.
>
>
>
> I started with the variac set at 130 volts output.  Feeding 120 into the
> output gave us about 110 on the input (that was connected across one phase
> of the induction unit).  As I turned the variac down the voltage went up.
> I got to 380 volts before we started smelling that wonderful “Allen
> Bradley” wafting through the lab and the variac started buzzing pretty
> bad.  I think I got it down to about 60 volts.  But we got it high enough
> out (in?)  that the control transformer made enough juice to power the
> control circuitry.  It appears that the machine is fixed.  Of course until
> we actually try to use it we will not know for certain.
>
>
>
> But the TL;DR is:  You can run a variac backwards and make higher
> voltages.
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse

[Cameron Crum]

Ah the old 'variac in reverse' trick, similar to a banana in the tailpipe.

On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 6:05 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Was testing a repair to a 480 volt induction heater today.  One of our
> employees decided to blow the dirt out of it, took the cover off and got a
> copper tube across an inductor to case ground.  It was probably 800 VDC at
> that spot.  Discharged the capacitor.  Sounded like a gunshot.  Tripped a
> 125 amp 480 volt breaker at our power service panel.  Turning it off at the
> front switch just turns off the control circuitry.  Everything else is hot
> unless you kill the breaker on the back of the unit.  I think the kid is
> still shaking.
>
> In any event, took the power supply to the lab.  Used a variac to put 0 to
> 130 volts across each leg with a clamp on volt meter on it as I tested.
> Never got past 10 volts and was drawing 3-5 amps.  3 phase bridge rectifier
> was totally shorted out.  Exactly as expected.  These things take raw 480
> VAC, rectifier, 800 VDC cap and then on to the IGBT transistors that chop
> it into ac etc.  I was hoping it was just the rectifier.
>
> So we got the replacement today.  Put it in and started testing.  No
> current, all the way up to 130 volts.  But the cap was charging.  So far
> looks good.  Told my sons to take it back and hook it up to 480.  My son
> Frank said “just reverse your variac and use it to step up”.  I initially
> refused to believe it would work.  Then I thought through it a bit and
> decided that it actually should work.
>
> I started with the variac set at 130 volts output.  Feeding 120 into the
> output gave us about 110 on the input (that was connected across one phase
> of the induction unit).  As I turned the variac down the voltage went up.
> I got to 380 volts before we started smelling that wonderful “Allen
> Bradley” wafting through the lab and the variac started buzzing pretty
> bad.  I think I got it down to about 60 volts.  But we got it high enough
> out (in?)  that the control transformer made enough juice to power the
> control circuitry.  It appears that the machine is fixed.  Of course until
> we actually try to use it we will not know for certain.
>
> But the TL;DR is:  You can run a variac backwards and make higher
> voltages.
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

[Cameron Crum]

Maybe bouses as a percentage of base base pay? That way the guys who have
been there longer or are better workers and have received raises for time
or performance get a little more. It also incentivizes people to be better
performers if they get a little more pay raise and realize that equates to
a better bonus if and when they happen.


On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 4:07 PM Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> Just feel at this point.
>
> We pay our installers (internet roof top, fttp etc) around $24 an hour.
> Labor it's too hard, merit based incremental pay raises about 3-4 percent a
> year after they have been at this level.
> Managers around $60k to $90k a year with full benefits, again 3 percent
> raises on the year, very conservative bonuses maybe hundreds to about $1k.
>
> The employees seem to just like the good pay and moderate acknowledgements
> of work done well.
> Probably a bit overpaid, but it's a small team and we don't want to have
> to re-hire or re-train staff.
>
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 28, 2024 11:16 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] compensation for employees
>
> My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding
> grout machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a
> specialized type of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well.  Almost no
> software involved.  Just a little in a motion control PCB in the grout
> machine to control the hydrostatic transmission.  This is by far my most
> profitable season I have ever had in 50 years of running some kind of
> hustle.  And those years of the stinger and other related antennas and
> hardware were not bad at all.  I am a bit more confident that these new
> “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were radio
> specific.
>
> But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product
> cycles for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay.  I do give
> bonuses.  I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll.  Only happened
> once about 30 years ago, but that is a bad deal.  And actually nobody was
> unpaid but I had to layoff everyone.  But I digress.
>
> What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are
> going well?  I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months.  I
> could give substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia of
> things getting tight again.  Maybe that is totally unfounded.  I know when
> things started going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and things got even
> better for him.
>
> I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), but
> how to distribute that evenly?  Should everyone get the same amount?  And
> how to relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly to how well the
> company is doing?  Or should I just give really nice raises this go
> around?  Or both?  I guess if things slow down we can always trim staff or
> let attrition do it for us.  I think you all can understand the reluctance
> to give raises as it is a one way street.  You really cannot cut pay.
>
> I want employees to prosper and do better personally.  I wonder if my
> fears are justified.  I know some of you have worked for large companies at
> certain points in your life, how did they accomplish this.  I know some of
> you have really prospered with your WISP/ISP, curious how you approached
> the whole sharing the wealth thing.
>
>
> Chuck McCown
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503
> 435-830-4306 cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> www.terabitnetworks.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar

[Cameron Crum]

How many panels in a pallet?

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 6:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Beene Brothers Ventures LLC
> 2090 Fm157 Mansfield, TX 76063 US
> beenebrothe...@gmail.com
> https://beenebrothers.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 31, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Not bad. Where did you order from?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22+ 5G, an AT 5G smartphone
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Chuck McCown via AF 
> Date: 7/31/23 6:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Solar
>
> Just bought a pallet of new 490 watt panels for 40 cents per watt.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT F me

[Cameron Crum]

Found this:

What is the direction of current flow in P channel MOSFET?
[image: Simple MOSFET Switching Circuit – How to turn on / turn off N ...]
Current flows into the drain and out of the source. P-channel MOSFETs turn
on when the gate is a few volts below the source, and the drain-source
voltage is negative. Current flows into the source and out of the drain.

In a P-channel MOSFET, the source is connected to a positive voltage, and
the FET will turn on when the voltage on the gate is below the source
voltage by a certain amount (Vgs < 0).


On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 1:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> For the first time ever, I needed a high side solenoid coil driver.
>
> So reading up on high side drivers, I felt confident.  P channel mosfet
> etc.
> Does not work.
>
> Come to find out that the *source* of a P channel mosfet is supposed to
> be connected to the positive supply.
>
> Source = source of electrons  Negative, ground, right?
> Drain = drain for electrons right... positive,  does this not
> reference electron flow?
>
> Source must mean hole source for P channel mosfet.
> ???
>
> Arrgh   Now gotta kludge circuit boards to test but really will have
> to scrap the lot.
>
> I thought the schematic looked odd because it put the internal body/free
> wheel in conduction mode when the transistor should be off.
> AND I found reference schematics showing it with Drain positive...  I
> figured others have drawn schematics of this exact transistor with Drain
> positive, surely those schematics are not erroneous.  They are published on
> the interwebs for heck sake
>
> Ennybuddy know enough solid state device physics to be able to tell me
> what Source actually means for a P channel mosfet?
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later

[Cameron Crum]

I thought Baja Blast was referring to what comes out your backside after
eating Taco Bell...hmmm.

On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 3:07 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> The hinged ones I have open both ways and you can still snap the cover off
> completely if it’s in the way.  It’s pretty darn convenient.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 29, 2023 3:48:35 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later
>
> Carl...
> the non hinged allows us easy access for cable management and landing  to
> either side and not hampered by hinge...running some cables can get
> difficult in busy panel...also the cutting is much cleaner ...
> and Josh,,,i will try the Blast just for you...
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 12:53 PM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
> I think the question was why not use hinge type cable troughs
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 12:58 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Lots of places with real and much better tacos...I live in El Paso, not
> San Antonio!!!
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023, 11:05 AM  wrote:
>
> Why not?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 29, 2023 1:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later
>
>
>
> Nope...no hinges ever
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023, 8:52 AM  wrote:
>
> It is a work of art.
>
> Do you ever use finger duct with a hinged cover?  I find that a lot more
> convenient, but wondering if there’s a reason not to use that on a panel
> like this.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2023 8:51 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later
>
>
>
> This is the panel for the large enclosure I posted last week...
>
> Dual power supplies for redundancy...
>
> More shares to come.
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] test test uno dos cinco

[Cameron Crum]

Might have something to do with your ability to count.

On Fri, Feb 17, 2023, 10:32 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> i am trying to share some breakfast and SCADA porn pictures but not having
> success..
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
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Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Cameron Crum]

I like the first idea, but the second not so much. It is so subjective as
to what makes someone a bad employee. It could be that he is great at
something that the other company didn't let him do or that he wasn't guided
correctly, or a number of things. I have seen people who were fired for bad
performance at one place come to another with a different atmosphere and
become rock stars, and also the opposite. Maybe things like punctuality,
drinking/drug use on the job, or other things that are physical or legal
metrics, but I see that as becoming something that could really hurt
people. I have worked for employers who just couldn't find the right spot
for me despite me making lots of suggestions and showing them what I could
do with those ideas. In the end I was ignored and fired, and I can promise
I wouldn't get good reviews from them. Is there anyone that can say every
employer would give them shining reviews? I doubt it.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 12:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> There is a new startup for you, have potential employees register,
> potential employers register, match up the ones that have overlap.  “Legal
> Tender”
>
> Here is another one.
> I wish there as a service that employers could subscribe to where we can
> all report bad employees.  Give people kinda a credit score based on how
> good or bad they were at previous jobs.  Let them file a protest and a
> letter just like a credit report.
> I would call it “The permanent record”
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:18 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
> I really wish there was a way that one could determine if the maximum an
> employer was willing to pay overlapped with the minimum an employee would
> accept without completely spoiling the whole negotiation process.
>
> I don't want to waste anyone's time if I won't be able to pay anything
> close to what they need.
>
> I have the same issue with some vendors who force you through this entire
> quoting process to find out that the lowest price they can offer is 10x
> what you'd be able to afford.
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 9:33 AM  wrote:
>
>> If they didn’t advertise any range or even a ballpark figure at all then
>> it’s fair to ask what they had in mind.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Zach Underwood
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:28 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>>
>>
>>
>> I disagree with that, late last year I was laid off so most of January I
>> was looking for another job. I was making over 100k at the last role and
>> more than one interview   in January  for a role only to find out they top
>> out at like 60k. So after that I would only interview if I knew the range.
>> It was a waste of time for me if I did not know the pay..
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 11:17 AM  wrote:
>>
>> Not only that, but part of Job Hunting 101 is don’t discuss compensation
>> too early.  This isn’t some executive level skill, everyone should know
>> this.  You can negotiate once it’s understood that both parties are
>> interested.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
>> (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2023 11:10 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>>
>>
>>
>> The value of someone with zero skills and experience is zero.
>>
>>
>>
>> The fact that many employers are willing to hire someone that has zero
>> skills and experience at $15/hr and train them at zero cost to the employee
>> is an awesome deal for a person who wants an opportunity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately it seems that a lot of people with zero skills and zero
>> experience think they should get paid at the same rate as someone who has
>> gone to school on their own dime and learned a trade.   Or the same as
>> someone who has 20 years experience.
>>
>>
>>
>> Apparently the electrical field has the same problems.  Employers willing
>> to take the risk on someone and pay not only to train the people but also
>> to pay a survival wage during training are often rewarded by applicants
>> that demand the same wages as fully licensed electricians.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 8:08 AM  wrote:
>>
>> I don't quite get the logic of this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why would you work for less than market wages?
>>
>>
>>
>> How is working for less than market wages an investment in yourself?
>>
>>
>>
>> - Jared
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 Chuck Macenski wrote:
>>
>> One way to say it: "The youth of today cannot live on $15 an hour so a
>> lot of candidates will not even walk through the door because other places
>> even in the field of welding pay higher to start."
>>
>>
>>
>> Another way to say it: "The youth of today will not invest in themselves."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 9:48 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>>
>> A lot of what is happening now 

Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Cameron Crum]

Totally agree with you about online learning. There is practically nothing
you can't learn with someone showing you exactly how to do it. In fact this
weekend, I'm rebuilding an automatic transmission that went out in my son's
truck. I bought a junkyard one to replace it and it died too, so I've
watched this guy do a rebuild on this exact transmission like 3 times. The
rebuild kit is only 295, so what the heck, might as well give it a try. I
learn so much by watching different techniques and seeing practical
examples. I don't understand how any kid can fail a class. You can find out
how to solve almost any problem at your finger tips. Heck you can find the
answers to most quizzes and test with about 5 min of searching. Kids today
can't even write in cursive, let alone find information information in an
actual library. I'm actually afraid for our future seeing some of the
comments you've received.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 7:29 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I just realized, civilization peaked with boomers.  All downhill to
> Armageddon from here on out
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 6:25 PM
> *To:* Ryan Ray
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
> Exactly what problems are young people facing?  Almost every single one
> that wants to can enlist in the military.  That will feed them and teach
> them a skill (and some manners, and how to work) and they will come out
> with the VA and GI Bill.  Pell grants, student loans.
>
> If someone wants to better themselves, they can.  Kids today have it far
> easier than ever before.  Work from home, online classes that are free,
> hell you can learn highly specialized technical stuff on Youtube.
>
> What is wrong with making yourself a sandwich?  If you are broke, don’t
> f**king spend.  You are making my point for me.
>
> Oh, the horrors of having to cook your own food, walking to work and
> living in a single wide.  Those are human rights abuses man!  (said all the
> snowflakes and they melted and went down the storm sewer)
>
> Where on the stone tablets that Moses brought down from the mountain does
> it say: “Young people should have it easier than you had it”?
>
> You eat what you kill.
>
>
> https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
>
>
> *From:* Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:55 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
> Not defeatist or jealousy or envy.
>
> I’m 34, I bought a 2500sqft house on a green belt in 2013 (25 Years old).
> Sold my company, and I live an extremely comfortable life for someone my
> age. No mortgage, a couple nice cars. I worked very hard, lots of long
> nights, lots of learning to get to where I’m at, and did it all without
> having any generational wealth to start with. To phrase it for you old
> folks, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps.
>
> However, your attitude is what makes me call you a boomer. You seem to
> have no empathy and are not willing to discuss the current problems facing
> young people today. You keep referencing back to how you did it, and just a
> few bucks in the 80's or the 70's or whatever. I could see it in your post.
> Saying things like "Make a sandwich at home, ride the bus, live in a
> trailer"
>
> Don't get me wrong Chuck, you're a smart guy. I've learned a lot from you
> over the years both in person and through this list. I take that as one of
> my core values is to listen to people, even when I think they're stupidly
> wrong, and make sure I never close myself off to any viewpoint and that
> makes me better in everything I do.
>
> I just think you're hand waving away a lot of current economic issues
> plaguing the world. Young people should have it easier than you had it,
> just like you had it easier than someone born in the 20's. Or should we
> just keep letting trillion dollar corps run the world and you got yours, so
> the young kids can go pound sand because their $18/hr job should suffice.
> (BTW my first "real" job back in 2008 was 35k a year) I was 19. No
> schooling, and that would be your $18/hr now.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 3:20 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Defeatist attitude.
>>
>> Or just jealous?  Envy?
>>
>> In 1990 I was so broke I was sitting on the side of the highway with my 4
>> kids (at the time) selling everything I had to get a bus ticket to get out
>> of town to get to a job to make a few bucks to move the family.
>>
>> Fast forward 10 short years and I had enough to retire.
>> Just hard work.  At 40 no less, not 50.
>>
>> And now 33 years later my house is 5 X larger than that.
>> Hell, my garage is bigger than that.
>> And my only roommates have been my kids.
>>
>> But there was some sleeping in dirt and enjoying it at certain periods.
>> Doncha only wish you could be like a boomer...
>>
>> *From:* Ryan Ray
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 

Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange

[Cameron Crum]

I wish you were closer. I'd send my son to you for that job to learn
welding. He really wants to learn and my skills are pretty basic as I don't
do it enough. I can get him started, but nothing like real work to get
good. I worked 2 and three jobs while in high school and college. I had a
sports scholarship that paid part of my tuition. I still had all the other
expenses. I drove a cash car that I had to rebuild the engine on. I sought
out jobs that were fun and either paid pretty well or had good benefits
(working on the beach in the summers, and as a ski instructor in the
winters, with a cafe job as well during the week days). At the beach after
spending all day hauling umbrellas, chairs, wave runners, etc around the
beach all day, I showered and went to work delivering sandwiches at night
until 10pm. I still had fun and saved enough to get me through engineering
school. It's all about your goals and what you are willing to do to get
there. $15/hr is great for this job. Ignore the nay sayers.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 3:14 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Bottom of the barrel trailer 
>
> No, I picked the same thing I lived in as my first house.
>
> Are you saying that todays’ kids will not stoop to that same level?
>
> Now there’s your sign.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 1:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>
> Chuck,
>
> I'm going to assume you're not trying to cherry pick statistics and want
> to learn and listen.
>
> Housing is only one part of the equation. Food, services, fuel, goods are
> at all time highs. Rental markets are becoming unfeasible unless living
> with roommates. I'm not sure where or how this mobile home fits in with the
> work in your area. Is there work in the area for your daughter to earn $18
> an hour?
>
> Talent.com says that at $18 an hour, working for 40 hours a week, gets you
> $2500 monthly net.
> Going off these assumptions Cost of Living in Utah (2023) | SoFi
> 
>
> Rent: $1100
> Food (No Restaurants): $253
> Utilities: $300
> Gas?: $400
> I think you yanks have things like health insurance. $100/mo?
>
> I haven't thought of everything, but you're already up to $2200/mo. You
> don't get ahead because you're behind before you even start.
>
> Now take into account that the average home price in Utah is $500k and you
> cherry picked some bottom of the barrel trailer. I can't tell if you're
> being serious or not.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> One of my millennial daughters, grown, married, trying to adult, lives
>> with her brother and his wife told me that I just don’t understand how hard
>> it is today compared to when I was younger.  So I did a little comparison
>> for her:
>>
>>
>> My first paid job in 1976 was $2/hour.  That would be about $10.70/hour
>> today.
>>
>> (I was an unpaid apprentice to a machinist in 1974, and slave labor on
>> the farm from 1960 until I escaped).
>>
>> My first skilled, formally trained, semi professional, utility lineman
>> job in 1979 paid $4.50/hour.
>> That would be about $18 today.
>>
>> My first home, single wide 10 x 50 mobile home cost $12,000 in 1982.  Or
>> about $36K today.
>>
>> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/744-S-1750-W-Vernal-UT-84078/2070550612_zpid/
>>
>> So how is it people have it so much worse today?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:39 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FB Exchange
>>
>> Too many parents want to be friends with their kids and not actually
>> parent.  Good news is, if you do a good job of parenting, you’ll likely
>> have the opportunity out to become friends with your kids after they move
>> out.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> CTIconnect
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2023, at 1:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Yeah, that’s a problem for sure.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the youth (and some adults) see online is prosperity and wealth and
>> entitlement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your definition of existing just doesn’t even come to their minds. To use
>> a phrase, they literally don’t comprehend it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was living happily in a one room apartment for $400 a month and eating
>> the same PB and soup for lunch/dinner on almost no monthly spend.
>>
>> I had an old futon bed that I had purchased in college as furniture. My
>> monthly output was focused on paying rent and a bit for food and my car.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was hungry for more, made my way by learning, taking what I could find
>> and working my way up.
>>
>>
>>
>> And during none of that did I think to myself, “This is shit, I am
>> entitled to more because I exist.” Lol
>>
>>
>>
>> My grown kids ask for very little and even then get told no all the time,
>> or have conditions.
>>
>> I worry about my younger kids that 

Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much

[Cameron Crum]

Growing up, there was a T intersection at the end of a well traveled road.
The guy who lived at the end of the T had his chain link fence hit A LOT.
The ditch before the fence was pretty shallow, so many of the perpetrators
were able to back out and leave before he could get to them. He installed
long spikes on the other side of the fence that would pop tires, puncture
oil pans, or otherwise entangle cars so they couldn't escape. His fence
only got hit a couple more times after that. This was in the 70's/80s. I'm
sure now-a-days he'd be sued by the people who drove through his fence for
damages, but I always thought it was a great idea.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I am doing concrete blocks initially, then perhaps jersey barrier.  Later
> we will get serious.
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Friday, February 3, 2023 1:32 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
>
> What about some 4-6in oil field pipe with chain link fence wire over them,
> and a bunch of used tires and another layer of fencing material with t
> posts? They they won't die
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:19 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, sonotube filled with a rebar cage.  Make a picket fence of them.
>> Cheaper than a cutover to a new building.  I have 576 strands feeding this
>> shelter.  Or maybe I beam hammered in with a pile driver.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 3, 2023 10:08 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
>>
>> I'm sure you could design some bollards that wouldn't allow a tractor
>> trailer through your fence 
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 8:34 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>>> I think we are going to install a larger shelter, farther away from the
>>> I-80 ROW fence.  Second crash right there.  First to come through the
>>> fence.  Car landed on our back up generator after wiping out our fiber
>>> splicing trailer, dump trailer and really nice powered reel trailer.
>>>
>>> Hope the kid had insurance.  No seat belt.  Head wound but apparently no
>>> broken bones.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 3, 2023 7:27 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
>>>
>>> I don’t see the brown stain marking where you were standing before the
>>> car arrived.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> Mark Radabaugh
>>> Amplex
>>> 22690 Pemberville Rd
>>> Luckey, OH 43443
>>> 419-837-5015 x 1021
>>> 419-261-5996 cell
>>> m...@amplex.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2023, at 7:55 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] West TX WISP

[Cameron Crum]

Mitchell Block is in that area with NetOps Communications.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:35 AM Craig House 
wrote:

> I may have a project in W Texas around Odessa / Midland coming up in late
> Feb/ Early March.   Any Wisp guys in the group in that area that might be
> interested in helping?  Hit me offlist.
>
> Craig
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: about time

[Cameron Crum]

I would tend to agree with this, steve. If you're in federal prison for
marijuana it's because you got busted for a quantity that was enough to
distribute. You may have pled down to simple possession to avoid having to
go to trial where you probably would have gotten a much larger sentence but
the feds aren't out making traffic stops and busting people for having a
dime bag in their car. Anyway, presidents can pardon whoever they want for
whatever reason they want. This is a vote buy plain and simple. If Congress
wants to change the law then it's up to them, but this is pandering at best
and does nothing to stop it going forward after this soft on crime
administration leaves office. Congress should get off their ass and change
the law or people should pay for doing the crimes. That's how it's supposed
to work.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2022, 11:49 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Nobody goes to federal prison for just simple possession of marijuana. I
> so hate that tripe. Just like the third striker who went up for life for
> stealing a pack of gum. He went for committing too many crimes and still
> stealing gum when he knew the consequenses
> First of you go to prison for felonies, not misdemeanors. So theres no
> "simple possession" it's a word game to make it sou d like Johnny quire boy
> got 10 large for a joint. No, Johnny had carry weight and got nabbed cause
> hes not very good at being a criminal.
> I'll be glad when they decide whether the classification of marijuana is a
> mid term or 2024 vote purchase so this is all behind us anyway.
> It's sad that something that should ha e been changed decades ago keeps
> being pocketed as a hail mary for a losing election team
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 9:05 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> Brother of a friend got sentenced for simple possession, went to the big
>> house and raped by white supremists..  joined them to keep from getting
>> killed, got aids and then used as a pawn by same WS and convicted of
>> threatening the governor..  So wrong on so many levels...
>>
>> On 10/6/22 5:29 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I know a guy that got life for weed under the three strikes law back in
>> the late 1980s.Last time he saw me he said: “fuck chuck, you can kill
>> somebody and only get 15 years.  This is crazy”  I don’t know if he ever
>> got out.
>>
>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2022 6:00 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: about time
>>
>> Took long enough. No one should be in prison for simple possession of
>> weed. It turns non-violent criminals into something worse than that. I'm
>> sure it's traumatizing for those incarcerated for something that didn't
>> hurt anyone.
>>
>> Why put people in prison for weed but sentence people way less time, or
>> not at all, for physical abuse, battery, sex crimes, etc? It's sick!
>>
>> We see too many black people in prison for weed but white people get
>> charged less or are released on probation for rape with evidence.
>> Particularly, young white men who "have a future" and the judge wouldn't
>> want to ruin their life. Forget about the woman they raped, it's just boys
>> being boys.
>>
>> Obviously not every judge is a shit head racist, but some of them are and
>> they should be weeded out. The US incarcerates way too many people as a
>> whole.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 4:44 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> My nephew has a close friend who was sent up 8 years for possession of 2
>>> or 3 ounces of weed. I think he got a couple years off for good behavior
>>> or something, but the kid wasn't even 21.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/06/statement-from-president-biden-on-marijuana-reform/
>>>
>>> --
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] My Internet is down and I can't sleep

[Cameron Crum]

Or maybe it randomly folds them in half while they are sleeping? Who has
something like this that "has" to have internet connectivity? Why would the
mattress company require this?

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 9:20 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> One of our grain legs is getting demolished and rebuilt, so the site is
> down for a week.  Planned outage, all the customers knew. Customer
> emailed yesterday and wanted to know how much longer it will be down
> because they can't control their mattress without the internet.  I'm
> having visions of something from 'Naked Gun' or 'Airplane' of the
> mattress just going crazy and they have it barricaded in a room.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Didn't help the sites were down from 11pm to 8am this morning


On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 10:32 AM  wrote:

> They knew full well that 477 was imperfect, and they must know this is
> too.  Just hope they figure out some improvements for next year.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Tyson Burris
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2022 10:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
>
>
> Steve-
>
>
>
> You may not say it but I will. The FCC is ran by more then a bunch of
> turds. It’s Ran by a bunch of clueless stupid idiots who’s job is to make
> neutral and fair decisions in the best interest of this country.
>
>
>
> What you got is a group of people making decisions harming businesses
> across the US with data that is half ass.
>
>
>
> Like the IRS the real solution is to dismantle and start over not try and
> crutch every time the public cries.
>
>
>
> When I reviewed our first submission today I just shook my head, rolled my
> eyes and asked how the hell we got to this point.
>
>
>
> Perhaps it’s just shit tower coverage data. Who knows.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President Internet Communications Inc. 739 Commerce
> Dr. Franklin, IN 46131  *
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>
>
>
> VIA WIRELESS
>
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2022, at 9:53 PM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> 
>
> You should try filing 200+
>
>
>
> Cameron
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 4:43 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Finally got this done. What fuckery. Ive spent the last week screwing
> around with this stupid shit that doesnt do anything for the company and
> just burns a stupid amount of time. That website is exactly the type of non
> intuitive shit youd expect from the US government. Crack head webdudes.
>
>
>
> I dont like ever putting my name in innacurate shit unless im telling lies
> and this was inaccurate as all get out. having to cheat this and poke that
> and import and export out of our powercode database, also, fuck excel,
> google sheets is where its at.
>
>
>
> Cherry on it is when i got done I did our 477 too and my autifill
> apparently filed our company 477 as my personal LLC, gonna see how that
> turns out. I dont know, maybe now I own the company.
>
>
>
> The only good of this was Cambium, those guys put the toolset in cnheat to
> hammer this out pretty clean. Most of the errors from that were just that
> Im a dumbass.
>
>
>
> Im not saying the FCC is a bunch of turds, but this whole process belongs
> in a portapotty at an august construction site in texas.
>
>
>
> Heres a shocker, Im gonna go get shitface
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

You should try filing 200+

Cameron

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 4:43 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Finally got this done. What fuckery. Ive spent the last week screwing
> around with this stupid shit that doesnt do anything for the company and
> just burns a stupid amount of time. That website is exactly the type of non
> intuitive shit youd expect from the US government. Crack head webdudes.
>
> I dont like ever putting my name in innacurate shit unless im telling lies
> and this was inaccurate as all get out. having to cheat this and poke that
> and import and export out of our powercode database, also, fuck excel,
> google sheets is where its at.
>
> Cherry on it is when i got done I did our 477 too and my autifill
> apparently filed our company 477 as my personal LLC, gonna see how that
> turns out. I dont know, maybe now I own the company.
>
> The only good of this was Cambium, those guys put the toolset in cnheat to
> hammer this out pretty clean. Most of the errors from that were just that
> Im a dumbass.
>
> Im not saying the FCC is a bunch of turds, but this whole process belongs
> in a portapotty at an august construction site in texas.
>
> Heres a shocker, Im gonna go get shitface
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah they definitely did not accommodate certain scenarios and force you
into submitting inaccurate data either on the subscription side or the
address locations side. Here is one we are commonly running into:

The subscription file shows 1 subscriber in a tract. That tract is
typically on the edge or even outside of the "normal" coverage area of the
Wisp. Using our methodology and THEIR requirements for if a location is
"serviceable" we did not find any locations in that tract. The 1 that shows
up in the subscription file is typically a "one-off" case, like a 50ft pole
or a tower in someone's back yard, the top of a grain silo, etc. These are
not deemed "serviceable" by their requirements as they are not a "typical"
installation that can be done within 10 days. So, to be in compliance with
the requirements it is not reported. However, if you have no locations in a
tract that shows up in the subscription file, you can't continue the
filing.

So there is a direct conflict with the two requirements. On one hand, you
have to report the subscriber in your subscription. On the other, the
location is technically not serviceable by their requirements so you can't
report it in the addresses and because the tract is generally unserviceable
anyway, no other locations show up. You either have to remove the tract
from subscriptions, or add a point that doesn't qualify under their rules.

I've emailed them 4 times about it and their only response was to tell me
we must have geocoded our customer incorrectly. What? I don't even think
they are reading my description of the problem.

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 11:24 AM Trey Scarborough  wrote:

> Yeah, but this is kind of unheard of they didn't even require this type of
> information back when they were doing all of this for phone lines. Its too
> late now but if as a whole everyone would have said no we are not doing
> this. If a majority of small ISPs didn't they would have a hard time
> enforcing the 15k fines. That would leave a spoltlight on VZ, ATT,
> Windstream, etc and there is no way their information is going to be
> accurate either. Then it would have been made more apparent that the data
> they are providing is garbage. When the underlying element of address
> fabric is flawwed and not accurate especially in rural areas. I really
> don't understand how they can expect the RF propagation and everything else
> to be accurate.
>
>
> On 8/25/22 2:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Not filing is a bad decision.
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 2:55 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> cheat has a special section for this . Look at the bottom left. You have
>> to build your speed tier to signal strength mappings so they can export
>> polygons for your speed tiers. It's a bit different from just the regular
>> runs. If you have cheat polygons, we can prep your stuff pretty quickly as
>> we don't have to do all the analysis. It's basically your contact info,
>> what services you are filing for and then your polygon and fabric uploads.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 1:45 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The companies doing the BDC filings
>>> What data, specifically are they going to need from us to do the filing?
>>> Im trying to get the export out of CnHeat, but I still need to get more
>>> sites into it and I havent even started the whole subscription side
>>> Anybody just not filing?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Cameron Crum]

And make damn sure you don't have blank line at the end of your
subscription file...they can't handle a blank line.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 3:47 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> Good luck with the duplicate errors after that.
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 12:47 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Easy.
>>
>> s/70/71
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 12:14 PM Cameron Crum 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a fun fact about the BDC and 477. In the BDC they want you to
>>> report subscription data (just like the 477) but they have a new tech code
>>> 71 for licensed wireless (that's anything in CBRS band or 2.5Ghz). However,
>>> the 477 subscription section will reject the subscription files with 71 in
>>> them. It's not as simple as changing the 71 to 70, because then you could
>>> create duplicate rows with the same speed tiers and tech codes. The funnest
>>> part is that NONE of the billing systems that spit out the subscription
>>> report can add the 71 in the right place. So while their report will pass
>>> (maybe) on the 477 it is worthless for BDC if you have any licensed band
>>> radios. And if you report any locations being served by licensed, and don't
>>> have any subscribers in your subscription file with tech code 71, they will
>>> not let you certify your filing. FUN TIMES!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 10:55 AM Seth Mattinen 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/25/22 6:39 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>>> > The primary goal is to determine consumer level broadband access. So
>>>> > yeah, they flag the commercial addresses and reject. It's a pretty
>>>> easy
>>>> > search to eliminate them. Just ignore anything with bsl_flag set to
>>>> false.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did the math this morning and the rejected location IDs account for 63%
>>>> of my customers. Here's to hoping they aren't looking for accuracy with
>>>> this new thing.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Cameron Crum]

Good luck with the duplicate errors after that.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 12:47 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Easy.
>
> s/70/71
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 12:14 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> Here's a fun fact about the BDC and 477. In the BDC they want you to
>> report subscription data (just like the 477) but they have a new tech code
>> 71 for licensed wireless (that's anything in CBRS band or 2.5Ghz). However,
>> the 477 subscription section will reject the subscription files with 71 in
>> them. It's not as simple as changing the 71 to 70, because then you could
>> create duplicate rows with the same speed tiers and tech codes. The funnest
>> part is that NONE of the billing systems that spit out the subscription
>> report can add the 71 in the right place. So while their report will pass
>> (maybe) on the 477 it is worthless for BDC if you have any licensed band
>> radios. And if you report any locations being served by licensed, and don't
>> have any subscribers in your subscription file with tech code 71, they will
>> not let you certify your filing. FUN TIMES!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 10:55 AM Seth Mattinen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/25/22 6:39 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>> > The primary goal is to determine consumer level broadband access. So
>>> > yeah, they flag the commercial addresses and reject. It's a pretty
>>> easy
>>> > search to eliminate them. Just ignore anything with bsl_flag set to
>>> false.
>>>
>>>
>>> Did the math this morning and the rejected location IDs account for 63%
>>> of my customers. Here's to hoping they aren't looking for accuracy with
>>> this new thing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Cameron Crum]

Here's a fun fact about the BDC and 477. In the BDC they want you to report
subscription data (just like the 477) but they have a new tech code 71 for
licensed wireless (that's anything in CBRS band or 2.5Ghz). However, the
477 subscription section will reject the subscription files with 71 in
them. It's not as simple as changing the 71 to 70, because then you could
create duplicate rows with the same speed tiers and tech codes. The funnest
part is that NONE of the billing systems that spit out the subscription
report can add the 71 in the right place. So while their report will pass
(maybe) on the 477 it is worthless for BDC if you have any licensed band
radios. And if you report any locations being served by licensed, and don't
have any subscribers in your subscription file with tech code 71, they will
not let you certify your filing. FUN TIMES!


On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 10:55 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 8/25/22 6:39 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
> > The primary goal is to determine consumer level broadband access. So
> > yeah, they flag the commercial addresses and reject. It's a pretty easy
> > search to eliminate them. Just ignore anything with bsl_flag set to
> false.
>
>
> Did the math this morning and the rejected location IDs account for 63%
> of my customers. Here's to hoping they aren't looking for accuracy with
> this new thing.
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: BDC service

[Cameron Crum]

No expedited fees. We gave discounts in July to incentivise people.
Apparently, most people prefer to spend $400 more by not taking advantage
of that. We can likely get stuff in with cheat polygons if we get it SOON


On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 9:17 AM Sriram Chaturvedi via AF 
wrote:

> Steve,
>
>
>
> We saw your cnHeat order come in just 10 minutes ago and it has already
> been fulfilled. No expedited or piracy fee.
>
>
>
> Good luck with the BDC filing.
>
>
>
> Sriram
>
>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Friday, August 26, 2022 at 8:40 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *[ External ] Re: [AFMUG] BDC service
>
> I'm running short on time with this nonsense. I'm still data entering the
> site info accurately into cnheat. Havent even started on subscriber stuff.
>
> About how long on average is the turnaround for these paid services? I
> assume some of them are going pirate now and charging "expedited service
> fees"
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 10:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I wonder if it is like filing a tax return.  You can file a blank return
> with just a signature and you will not get fined for not filing or late
> filing.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 7:25 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC service
>
> On 8/25/22 12:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> > Not filing is a bad decision.
>
>
> The filing thing rejected half of my location IDs as invalid. Apparently
> they are marked 'bsl_flag=false' in the fabric data. All of my locations
> IDs are commercial/business which were hit or miss which were flagged
> true or false. The ID for our physical address where we provide gigabit
> Ethernet to in-building neighbors was rejected, of all the locations
> that one is the *most* serviceable of them all.
>
> So if it's such a big deal they need to fine people I'll just submit
> what it will accept and ignore what it won't.  Seems like a great way to
> keep having inaccurate data though unless they only really care about
> residential, in which which case 100% of my filing is irrelevant.
>
> ~Seth
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
>
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Cameron Crum]

The primary goal is to determine consumer level broadband access. So yeah,
they flag the commercial addresses and reject. It's a pretty easy search to
eliminate them. Just ignore anything with bsl_flag set to false.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 8:26 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 8/25/22 12:15 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> > Not filing is a bad decision.
>
>
> The filing thing rejected half of my location IDs as invalid. Apparently
> they are marked 'bsl_flag=false' in the fabric data. All of my locations
> IDs are commercial/business which were hit or miss which were flagged
> true or false. The ID for our physical address where we provide gigabit
> Ethernet to in-building neighbors was rejected, of all the locations
> that one is the *most* serviceable of them all.
>
> So if it's such a big deal they need to fine people I'll just submit
> what it will accept and ignore what it won't.  Seems like a great way to
> keep having inaccurate data though unless they only really care about
> residential, in which which case 100% of my filing is irrelevant.
>
> ~Seth
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC service

[Cameron Crum]

cheat has a special section for this . Look at the bottom left. You have to
build your speed tier to signal strength mappings so they can export
polygons for your speed tiers. It's a bit different from just the regular
runs. If you have cheat polygons, we can prep your stuff pretty quickly as
we don't have to do all the analysis. It's basically your contact info,
what services you are filing for and then your polygon and fabric uploads.

Cameron

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 1:45 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> The companies doing the BDC filings
> What data, specifically are they going to need from us to do the filing?
> Im trying to get the export out of CnHeat, but I still need to get more
> sites into it and I havent even started the whole subscription side
> Anybody just not filing?
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Not right now

On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 4:23 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Is there a process to request an extension?
>
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 3:56 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> guess not
>>
>> still gotta report everything
>>
>> https://us-fcc.app.box.com/v/bdc-availability-spec
>>
>> on page 27 it says
>>
>> Maximum advertised download speed, in Mbps,offered to the enduser(s)at
>> thelocation.  Enter the value as an integer.  The system will reject a file
>> if the value in this field is not an integerand does not meet the
>> requirements below.  Itwill not round or truncate decimals.Service Below
>> 25/3 MbpsRegardingthe maximum advertised speedsof the service offered, if
>> thedownload is less than 25 Mbps orthe upload isless than 3 Mbps, but
>> eitherthe download or upload speed is at least 200 kbps, then report using
>> one of the following service tiers*:1)If the maximum advertiseddownload
>> speed is less than 10 Mbpsorthe maximum advertised upload speed is less
>> than 1 Mbps: enter0.*The system will ask the filer to confirm thatthe
>> service offered falls in this tier.2)If the maximum advertised download
>> speed is greater than or equal to 10 Mbps andthe maximum advertised upload
>> speed is greater than or equal to 1 Mbps: enter 10.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 24, 2022 3:41 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>>
>> is the requirement still 25 meg and up?
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Cameron Crum 
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2022 5:45 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> Dang...hope she feels better.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 5:27 PM Larry Smith  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Ouch for sure, Prayers.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Larry Smith
>>> lesm...@ecsis.net
>>>
>>> On Mon August 22 2022 16:59, David Hannum wrote:
>>> > 1.1 cm. . . Sorry.   11cm   Holy cow
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022, 5:56 PM David Hannum 
>>> wrote:
>>> > > Cameron,
>>> > >
>>> > > Sorry to delay getting back today.  Been at hospital all day with my
>>> > > wife.  Monster 11cm kidney stone.  Going into surgery now!
>>> > >
>>> > > Dave
>>> > >
>>> > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022, 1:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>> > >> Brian Webster and crew are doing ours.  Super good value!
>>> > >>
>>> > >> *From:* David Hannum
>>> > >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2022 8:33 PM
>>> > >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> > >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Thanks!
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 8:12 PM Cameron Crum 
>>> wrote:
>>> > >>> We will depending on what you have and how you got it. Call us
>>> > >>> tomorrow. regulatorysolutions.us
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Cameron
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 7:04 PM David Hannum >> >
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> wrote:
>>> > >>>> Did I read someone here stated some of you would review BDC
>>> filings
>>> > >>>> and sign off on them?  Are the details of this posted somewhere?
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Thanks!
>>> > >>>> Dave Hannum
>>> > >>>> New Era Broadband
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> --
>>> > >>>> AF mailing list
>>> > >>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> --
>>> > >>> AF mailing list
>>> > >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> > >>
>>> > >> --
>>> > >> --
>>> > >> AF mailing list
>>> > >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> > >> --
>>> > >> AF mailing list
>>> > >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Depends on what you mean by requirement. If you are a facilities based
provider you have to file regardless of what speeds you are providing


On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 3:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> is the requirement still 25 meg and up?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Cameron Crum 
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2022 5:45 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> Dang...hope she feels better.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 5:27 PM Larry Smith  wrote:
>
>>
>> Ouch for sure, Prayers.
>>
>> --
>> Larry Smith
>> lesm...@ecsis.net
>>
>> On Mon August 22 2022 16:59, David Hannum wrote:
>> > 1.1 cm. . . Sorry.   11cm   Holy cow
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022, 5:56 PM David Hannum 
>> wrote:
>> > > Cameron,
>> > >
>> > > Sorry to delay getting back today.  Been at hospital all day with my
>> > > wife.  Monster 11cm kidney stone.  Going into surgery now!
>> > >
>> > > Dave
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022, 1:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>> > >> Brian Webster and crew are doing ours.  Super good value!
>> > >>
>> > >> *From:* David Hannum
>> > >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2022 8:33 PM
>> > >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> > >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks!
>> > >>
>> > >> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 8:12 PM Cameron Crum 
>> wrote:
>> > >>> We will depending on what you have and how you got it. Call us
>> > >>> tomorrow. regulatorysolutions.us
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Cameron
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 7:04 PM David Hannum 
>> > >>>
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>>> Did I read someone here stated some of you would review BDC filings
>> > >>>> and sign off on them?  Are the details of this posted somewhere?
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Thanks!
>> > >>>> Dave Hannum
>> > >>>> New Era Broadband
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> --
>> > >>>> AF mailing list
>> > >>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --
>> > >>> AF mailing list
>> > >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> > >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> --
>> > >> AF mailing list
>> > >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> > >> --
>> > >> AF mailing list
>> > >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Dang...hope she feels better.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 5:27 PM Larry Smith  wrote:

>
> Ouch for sure, Prayers.
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Mon August 22 2022 16:59, David Hannum wrote:
> > 1.1 cm. . . Sorry.   11cm   Holy cow
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022, 5:56 PM David Hannum  wrote:
> > > Cameron,
> > >
> > > Sorry to delay getting back today.  Been at hospital all day with my
> > > wife.  Monster 11cm kidney stone.  Going into surgery now!
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022, 1:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
> > >> Brian Webster and crew are doing ours.  Super good value!
> > >>
> > >> *From:* David Hannum
> > >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2022 8:33 PM
> > >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
> > >>
> > >> Thanks!
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 8:12 PM Cameron Crum 
> wrote:
> > >>> We will depending on what you have and how you got it. Call us
> > >>> tomorrow. regulatorysolutions.us
> > >>>
> > >>> Cameron
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 7:04 PM David Hannum 
> > >>>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>> Did I read someone here stated some of you would review BDC filings
> > >>>> and sign off on them?  Are the details of this posted somewhere?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks!
> > >>>> Dave Hannum
> > >>>> New Era Broadband
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> AF mailing list
> > >>>> AF@af.afmug.com
> > >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> AF mailing list
> > >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> > >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> --
> > >> AF mailing list
> > >> AF@af.afmug.com
> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > >> --
> > >> AF mailing list
> > >> AF@af.afmug.com
> > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

We will depending on what you have and how you got it. Call us tomorrow.
regulatorysolutions.us

Cameron

On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 7:04 PM David Hannum  wrote:

> Did I read someone here stated some of you would review BDC filings and
> sign off on them?  Are the details of this posted somewhere?
>
> Thanks!
> Dave Hannum
> New Era Broadband
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Well heck if he can keep a Yugo running all this time, he might be pretty
good.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 10:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Yugo PE
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 22, 2022, at 9:31 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
>  He's the Lincoln PEor the Pontiac PE
>
> On 7/22/22 2:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> He said he was legit.  Worked out of his car...
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Friday, July 22, 2022 3:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> Seems risky. $15000 fine and possibly a federal forgery charge if they
> find out.
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 3:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I think a fake PE stamp is the way to go...
>>
>> *From:* Cameron Crum
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 22, 2022 1:09 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> Yeah. There are probably multiple addresses at a big building like that
>> but maybe not. If that's it then yep, just a polygon around it or find the
>> address in the fabric file, then see if there are others.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 1:39 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/22/22 10:57 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>>> > On 7/22/22 10:16 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>> >> Mike are you asking me about the program or just a general question
>>> >> about towers? If general question, then you just do a spatial
>>> >> intersection between your buffered fiber routes or a polygon that
>>> >> surrounds all the homes you pass and the address data they send.
>>> >> Pretty easy if you know how to use a spatial database. A PE will ask
>>> >> how you did it and then probably ask you to show them and then sign
>>> >> and stamp.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > So if one were only serve a specific address you'd just draw a box
>>> > around that address?
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually don't even know if "serve" is the correct term. We allow people
>>> to connect to a port on our equipment if they happen to know about it
>>> and can provide their own equipment or cabling to reach it. How would
>>> one map something like that? A single square over our business office
>>> address?
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Seems risky. $15000 fine and possibly a federal forgery charge if they find
out.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 3:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I think a fake PE stamp is the way to go...
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Friday, July 22, 2022 1:09 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> Yeah. There are probably multiple addresses at a big building like that
> but maybe not. If that's it then yep, just a polygon around it or find the
> address in the fabric file, then see if there are others.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 1:39 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 7/22/22 10:57 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> > On 7/22/22 10:16 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>> >> Mike are you asking me about the program or just a general question
>> >> about towers? If general question, then you just do a spatial
>> >> intersection between your buffered fiber routes or a polygon that
>> >> surrounds all the homes you pass and the address data they send.
>> >> Pretty easy if you know how to use a spatial database. A PE will ask
>> >> how you did it and then probably ask you to show them and then sign
>> >> and stamp.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > So if one were only serve a specific address you'd just draw a box
>> > around that address?
>> >
>>
>>
>> Actually don't even know if "serve" is the correct term. We allow people
>> to connect to a port on our equipment if they happen to know about it
>> and can provide their own equipment or cabling to reach it. How would
>> one map something like that? A single square over our business office
>> address?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah. There are probably multiple addresses at a big building like that but
maybe not. If that's it then yep, just a polygon around it or find the
address in the fabric file, then see if there are others.


On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 1:39 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 7/22/22 10:57 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> > On 7/22/22 10:16 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
> >> Mike are you asking me about the program or just a general question
> >> about towers? If general question, then you just do a spatial
> >> intersection between your buffered fiber routes or a polygon that
> >> surrounds all the homes you pass and the address data they send.
> >> Pretty easy if you know how to use a spatial database. A PE will ask
> >> how you did it and then probably ask you to show them and then sign
> >> and stamp.
> >>
> >
> >
> > So if one were only serve a specific address you'd just draw a box
> > around that address?
> >
>
>
> Actually don't even know if "serve" is the correct term. We allow people
> to connect to a port on our equipment if they happen to know about it
> and can provide their own equipment or cabling to reach it. How would
> one map something like that? A single square over our business office
> address?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Well if you only had fiber at one address then you would only submit that
one address. No need for a polygon. But yeah hardwired services like fiber
or cable or DSL obviously know which homes they pass. You just have to make
sure that you identify the addresses in the BDC fabric file. The easiest
way is to overlay your routes with a buffer that would encompass the homes
or draw a polygon around the homes that you know you pass. Then you could
put that polygon and the addresses into a spatial database or a GIS program
if you have one and do an intersect to get the addresses served. I know a
lot of guys don't have a real GIS program or really know how to insert data
into a spatially enabled database.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 12:59 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 7/22/22 10:16 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
> > Mike are you asking me about the program or just a general question
> > about towers? If general question, then you just do a spatial
> > intersection between your buffered fiber routes or a polygon that
> > surrounds all the homes you pass and the address data they send. Pretty
> > easy if you know how to use a spatial database. A PE will ask how you
> > did it and then probably ask you to show them and then sign and stamp.
> >
>
>
> So if one were only serve a specific address you'd just draw a box
> around that address?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Mike are you asking me about the program or just a general question about
towers? If general question, then you just do a spatial intersection
between your buffered fiber routes or a polygon that surrounds all the
homes you pass and the address data they send. Pretty easy if you know how
to use a spatial database. A PE will ask how you did it and then probably
ask you to show them and then sign and stamp.

Cameron

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 12:00 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> What if you don't have towers?  ;-)
>
> One of my hats is fiber and DSL.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Cameron Crum" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, July 21, 2022 4:23:11 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at
> www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance.
>
> Cameron
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement
>> with increased requirements?
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport
>>> - only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally
>>> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet
>>> access who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>>> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find
>>>> a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not
>>>> apply to me.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>
>>>> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider
>>>>> with free access to the internet thrown in...
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
>>>>> There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
>>>>> some wins.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
>>>>>> That is sarcasm
>>>>>> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
>>>>>> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's
>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Per

Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah, there has been a lot of discussion about this in the 2nd and 3rd
report and orders. They have said it is a PE requirement except for the 3
cycle waiver. Good luck arguing with them otherwise. I hope it gets
changed.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 11:43 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

>
>
> This is 47 CFR 1.7004:
>
> (d) Providers shall include in each Digital Opportunity Data Collection
> filing a certification signed by a corporate officer of the provider that
> the officer has examined the information contained in the submission and
> that, to the best of the officer's actual knowledge, information, and
> belief, all statements of fact contained in the submission are true and
> correct. All providers also shall submit a certification of the accuracy of
> its submissions by a qualified engineer. The engineering certification
> shall state
> <https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840=800=true_id=e8082d3c63609512a918f3ab77bd41dc_occur=999_src=Title:47:Chapter:I:Subchapter:A:Part:1:Subpart:V:1.7004>
>  that
> the certified professional engineer or corporate engineering officer is
> employed by the provider and has direct knowledge of, or responsibility
> for, the generation of the provider's Digital Opportunity Data Collection
> filing.
>
>
> The law itself says “or corporate engineering officer….”.  While the
> waiver itself will expire, that expiration doesn’t change the underlying
> law.
>
> I actually think CCA screwed this up asking for the waiver in the first
> place.
>
> What the waiver actually ORDERED is "that this Declaratory Ruling is
> ADOPTED and section 1.7004(d), 47 CFR §1.7004(d) is WAIVED to the extent
> indicated herein.”
>
> It doesn’t change the original statement that a corporate engineering
> officer can certify the filing, with or without the waiver.If your
> engineer has the required degree and you make them a corporate engineering
> officer (and I’ll let the lawyers deal with what making an employee an
> officer means) you still don’t need a PE to my reading.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2022, at 11:45 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> Yeah they are allowing that for the next 3 cycles. After that, we'll see.
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 10:35 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
>> I could get my PE but I have zero interest in relearning all of the EIT
>> (renamed something else now) that is part of the book exam.   But to your
>> point - nothing in my EE had any specific relevance to what we do on a day
>> to day basis.   Fiber was a curiosity at the time, and phased array
>> antennas were cutting edge.
>>
>> I still think the FCC / etc. is getting a little too hung up on the PE
>> requirement - I’m not convinced they actually required a state certified
>> Professional Engineer (Capital P) in the first place. Ohio specifically
>> says:
>>
>> (A) Except for an individual who, as part of the internal classification
>> system of the individual's employer, uses the title "engineer" by itself or
>> in conjunction with another term described in division (B) of this section
>> and who does not represent the individual's self to the public or otherwise
>> advertise the individual's self as an engineer, no individual shall, in
>> connection with the individual's name, assume, use, or advertise:
>>
>> (1) The title "engineer" by itself unless the individual is an engineer;
>>
>> (2) The title "engineer" in conjunction with another term that modifies
>> the title "engineer" in a manner that conveys the impression that the
>> individual is a graduate of an accredited engineering curriculum unless the
>> individual is a graduate of an accredited engineering curriculum.
>>
>> (B) Terms used in conjunction with the title "engineer" under division
>> (A)(2) of this section that imply a person is a graduate of an accredited
>> engineering curriculum include the following: "aerospace," "agricultural,"
>> "civil," "chemical," "computer," "electrical," "industrial," "mechanics,"
>> "mechanical," "metallurgical," "mining," "naval architectural and marine,"
>> "nuclear," and any other term commonly used by an institution of higher
>> learning to apply to graduates of an accredited engineering curriculum.
>>
>> The FCC said (in the waiver) "we agree that, under the Commission’s
>> rules, where a mobile or fixed service provider submits a certification of
>> the accuracy of its broadband submissions from a “corporate engineering
>> officer,” the corporate

Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Agreed, and that is why they are expensive. They aren't just stamping
something without review and knowing what it is.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 10:34 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Would have never worked “as” a PE.  Moreover, you are exposed to liability
> if you stamp something.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, July 22, 2022 9:20 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> I was in the same boat.  They had a presentation for the EIT program
> (engineer in training) which I guess you had to do if you wanted to sit for
> the PE exam later after you got your work hour qualification.  I kinda wish
> now I had done it but I would have never worked for a PE.  Like you I was
> all about RF in college.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Friday, July 22, 2022 8:35 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> Yeah, it's a stupid requirement s most EE PEs don't know jack about
> wireless and probably less about fiber. I happen to know a couple guys who
> bothered to get their PE, but I know I never did simply because there
> wasn't even a test for what I do. They want you to take the power systems
> and control systems exam if you are an RF guy. IT really is dumb and I
> think they are just trying to weed out the smaller guys who will be forced
> into a financial hardship.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> The waiver should be made permanent.  The quality of the data will not
>> suffer.
>>
>> *From:* Cameron Crum
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:47 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> Understood. We can work with very small providers. We aren't trying to
>> put anyone out of business. We do have some fixed costs like the PE unless
>> you want to self certify. I believe you qualify, or will at least for the
>> waiver on the next 3 filings.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, but your solution is equivalent to my annual net profit as I am
>>> such a new and small company.  I am complaining to the FCC penury.
>>>
>>> *From:* Cameron Crum
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:23 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>> We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at
>>> www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance.
>>>
>>> Cameron
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I
>>>> think.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement
>>>> with increased requirements?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing
>>>>> transport - only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone
>>>>> coincidentally connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside
>>>>> of my control.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>>
>>>>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet
>>>>> access who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 
>>>>> 2022
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can
>>>>>> find a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it
>>>>>> should not apply to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>>>
>>>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah they are allowing that for the next 3 cycles. After that, we'll see.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 10:35 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> I could get my PE but I have zero interest in relearning all of the EIT
> (renamed something else now) that is part of the book exam.   But to your
> point - nothing in my EE had any specific relevance to what we do on a day
> to day basis.   Fiber was a curiosity at the time, and phased array
> antennas were cutting edge.
>
> I still think the FCC / etc. is getting a little too hung up on the PE
> requirement - I’m not convinced they actually required a state certified
> Professional Engineer (Capital P) in the first place. Ohio specifically
> says:
>
> (A) Except for an individual who, as part of the internal classification
> system of the individual's employer, uses the title "engineer" by itself or
> in conjunction with another term described in division (B) of this section
> and who does not represent the individual's self to the public or otherwise
> advertise the individual's self as an engineer, no individual shall, in
> connection with the individual's name, assume, use, or advertise:
>
> (1) The title "engineer" by itself unless the individual is an engineer;
>
> (2) The title "engineer" in conjunction with another term that modifies
> the title "engineer" in a manner that conveys the impression that the
> individual is a graduate of an accredited engineering curriculum unless the
> individual is a graduate of an accredited engineering curriculum.
>
> (B) Terms used in conjunction with the title "engineer" under division
> (A)(2) of this section that imply a person is a graduate of an accredited
> engineering curriculum include the following: "aerospace," "agricultural,"
> "civil," "chemical," "computer," "electrical," "industrial," "mechanics,"
> "mechanical," "metallurgical," "mining," "naval architectural and marine,"
> "nuclear," and any other term commonly used by an institution of higher
> learning to apply to graduates of an accredited engineering curriculum.
>
> The FCC said (in the waiver) "we agree that, under the Commission’s rules,
> where a mobile or fixed service provider submits a certification of the
> accuracy of its broadband submissions from a “corporate engineering
> officer,” the corporate engineering officer does not need to be a certified
> PE.  We believe that the rule would be satisfied, for example, where the
> corporate officer possesses at least a Bachelor of Science (B.S.) in
> engineering degree and has both “direct knowledge” of, and responsibility
> for, the carrier’s network design and construction.
>
> To my reading I can specifically state that I am an engineer with a BSEE
> acting in my capacity with the company, and not violate Ohio law in doing
> so.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2022, at 10:35 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> Yeah, it's a stupid requirement s most EE PEs don't know jack about
> wireless and probably less about fiber. I happen to know a couple guys who
> bothered to get their PE, but I know I never did simply because there
> wasn't even a test for what I do. They want you to take the power systems
> and control systems exam if you are an RF guy. IT really is dumb and I
> think they are just trying to weed out the smaller guys who will be forced
> into a financial hardship.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> The waiver should be made permanent.  The quality of the data will not
>> suffer.
>>
>> *From:* Cameron Crum
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:47 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> Understood. We can work with very small providers. We aren't trying to
>> put anyone out of business. We do have some fixed costs like the PE unless
>> you want to self certify. I believe you qualify, or will at least for the
>> waiver on the next 3 filings.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, but your solution is equivalent to my annual net profit as I am
>>> such a new and small company.  I am complaining to the FCC penury.
>>>
>>> *From:* Cameron Crum
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:23 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>> We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at
>>> www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance.
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah, it's a stupid requirement s most EE PEs don't know jack about
wireless and probably less about fiber. I happen to know a couple guys who
bothered to get their PE, but I know I never did simply because there
wasn't even a test for what I do. They want you to take the power systems
and control systems exam if you are an RF guy. IT really is dumb and I
think they are just trying to weed out the smaller guys who will be forced
into a financial hardship.


On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> The waiver should be made permanent.  The quality of the data will not
> suffer.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:47 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> Understood. We can work with very small providers. We aren't trying to put
> anyone out of business. We do have some fixed costs like the PE unless you
> want to self certify. I believe you qualify, or will at least for the
> waiver on the next 3 filings.
>
> Cameron
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, but your solution is equivalent to my annual net profit as I am such
>> a new and small company.  I am complaining to the FCC penury.
>>
>> *From:* Cameron Crum
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:23 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at
>> www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I
>>> think.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement
>>> with increased requirements?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport
>>>> - only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally
>>>> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>
>>>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet
>>>> access who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 
>>>> 2022
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can
>>>>> find a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it
>>>>> should not apply to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>>
>>>>> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider
>>>>>> with free access to the internet thrown in...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
>>>>>> There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> some wins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
>>>>>>> That is sarcasm
>>>>>>> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
>>>>>>> I feel we all nee

Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

Understood. We can work with very small providers. We aren't trying to put
anyone out of business. We do have some fixed costs like the PE unless you
want to self certify. I believe you qualify, or will at least for the
waiver on the next 3 filings.

Cameron

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Yes, but your solution is equivalent to my annual net profit as I am such
> a new and small company.  I am complaining to the FCC penury.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:23 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>
> We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at
> www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance.
>
> Cameron
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement
>> with increased requirements?
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport
>>> - only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally
>>> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet
>>> access who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>>> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find
>>>> a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not
>>>> apply to me.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>
>>>> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider
>>>>> with free access to the internet thrown in...
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
>>>>> There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
>>>>> some wins.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
>>>>>> That is sarcasm
>>>>>> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
>>>>>> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's
>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* Brian Webster
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>>>>>> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
>>>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18
>>>>>>> months. Then the full PE cert is required.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian Webster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>>>>>>
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] BDC

[Cameron Crum]

We have a solution for filing  with PE certification at
www.regulatorysolutions.us if you need assistance.

Cameron

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> 
> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement
> with increased requirements?
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> “Internet access”.  If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport -
>> only then I am not a provider of internet.  If someone coincidentally
>> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet access
>> who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> But what types of business does it apply to?  I am sure that I can find
>>> a loophole.  Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not
>>> apply to me.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC
>>>
>>> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter.  It's copper versus optical delivery. :)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with
 free access to the internet thrown in...

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BDC

 WISPA is absolutely fighting this.  We absolutely did not want this.
 There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get
 some wins.

 On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us
> That is sarcasm
> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood
> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps.  I am sure there will be things filed about this.
>>
>> *From:* Brian Webster
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>>
>> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months.
>> Then the full PE cert is required.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
>> McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] BDC
>>
>>
>>
>> Starting to look into what I have to do.
>>
>> Just read the certification requirements.  This is the language of
>> the alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier:
>>
>> (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering
>> and design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of
>> relevant experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or
>> performance.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Raspberry Pi Shortage

[Cameron Crum]

Check out the orange pi zero or orange pi 4. Much cheaper, and similar
specs. If  you aren't sold on having to use raspian, they might do what you
need. Have to source from China, but that seems to be the case for most
things these days.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 12:09 PM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> Might be better off getting a refurb Chromebook. NewEgg is selling a couple
> of models for under $60
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 12:26 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Raspberry Pi Shortage
>
> Any ideas when the shortages on these will stop? Was wanting to order
> a few of them for a monitoring project but they're just not available.
> I do not want to feed scalpers either.
>
> I guess this relates to the shortages of many things.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political

[Cameron Crum]

You stirred the liberal hornets nest now, Chuck.


On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 7:51 AM  wrote:

> Weirdly opposite here.  My brothers are vocally alt-right.  All
> ex-military, all purport to be Christian.  One is dead from substance abuse
> and suffered a variety of mental health issues.  The surviving two are
> always broke, angry, and unhappy.  I feel like I have to tiptoe around them
> so they don’t fly off the handle about anything.
>
>
>
> …..and I’m not at all “woke”.  I just know it’s not for me to pass
> judgement.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, this is NY.  Maybe they feel like they’re the rebels
> fighting the evil liberal death star.  Maybe your kids in Utah feel like
> they’re the rebels fighting the evil Republican death star.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2022 6:11 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>
>
>
> Woke, broke, in therapy and crazy unhappy.
>
>
>
> That is how I would describe some of my kids.
>
>
>
> The alt right unwoke ones seem to have money and happiness.
>
>
>
> Never expected I would not be able to speak my mind at family dinners just
> to be able to still see some of my kids.
>
> Feel like I was convicted in absentia, thrown in the hole for a lifetime
> sentence, but taken out of solitary confinement now and then at their whims
> just so they could claim to have compassion on me for a half hour walk in
> the woods.  Maybe longer if I pay for dinner.
>
>
>
> Odd times
>
> I loved my parents and grandparents.
>
> Never felt they had to earn it.
>
> Never would have thought of condemning them for the things they said.
>
>
>
> Funny, I have a sister that lives 1000 miles from me.  Our families were
> separate all while the kids were growing.
>
> But some of hers have done the same things to her.  Using the exact same
> vernacular.
>
>
>
> Must have something to do with energy drinks I think.
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Web page development

[Cameron Crum]

I have a fully responsive template I've built for a couple of wisps that
can be styled to your liking. I would be happy to show it to you. It is
fairly simple but includes the basics like a package list, contact, and can
include some qualification features like looking up your service addresses
and such when they make an inquiry for their address to validate service. I
might have to push it up to a web server to show but let me know if you'd
like to see it.



On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 12:30 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Are they service bureau companies or is this software?
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2022 11:27 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Web page development
>
> Fiverr or upwork
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022, 10:09 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> It’s for my ISP.  Needs to look snazzy.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 24, 2022 10:19 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Web page development
>>
>> i just did google dns and google sites for my garbage flat page. Square
>> probably have wysiwyg e-commerce stuff thats probably pretty user friendly.
>> Also depends on your market, for MT stuff, I just want picture,
>> description, price, whistlebops and nifty poppers are for kids with autism.
>> Toilet friendly viewing its paramount. I cant stand sitting on the shitter
>> looking for products and popup ads wont move out of the way, descriptions
>> dont render correctly, pricing isnt there, images are not the actual
>> product. its really bad for bowels.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Once again, I find myself needing a nice webpage done.  I have used
>>> companies from india a couple of times with mixed results.
>>> I have tried local folks that were expensive and slow and not terribly
>>> creative.
>>> I do them myself if they are not too complex but I am horrible at both
>>> design and marketing.
>>>
>>> Any advice?
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Govt money

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah, that is the idea behind the Neo comments. It would be open access
middle mile.

Cameron

On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 4:35 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Just to clarify I'm also OK with middle mile projects.
>
> I just would like to see that whatever we build with taxpayer dollars is
> able to be used by all.There are a few countries which have adopted
> this model with good success.   That is, the government one way or another
> subsidizes the build of the actual fiber infrastructure.  The government
> has standards that make it easy for companies to utilize this
> infrastructure (such as frequent breakout points, sufficient backbone
> strands, last mile architectures which support multiple technologies, etc)
>
> Then, any provider who wants to provide service just needs to locate gear
> in the right spots and not worry about the fiber build.
>
> The costs of the build are amortized over the life of the plant so it
> doesn't turn into a 'cheaper to build our own' situation.
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 3:23 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Personally I'd also like to see a requirement that any last mile plant be
>> built using the model where they bring a single strand or two from each
>> home to a central point in each neighborhood.   Then, they must offer
>> access to those strands on a non discriminatory basis.Bonus points if
>> you structure it such that the fiber access piece must not generate any
>> meaningful profit.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022, 2:59 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all, if you have a few spare minutes, I'd love for you to take a
>>> look at these comments made to the HTIA about the best way to use all the
>>> new money from the infrastructure bill. This is from one of the companies
>>> I'm currently working with. Basically they are advocating for the money to
>>> be spent on a robust middle mile nationwide network open to anyone with
>>> local govt or private entities providing the last mile via wireless or
>>> fiber where fiber makes sense. This is in lieu of just handing money to the
>>> big carriers again, because we all know how that works. I know we would
>>> appreciate any comments on the ntia site, especially those in support of
>>> the proposition. Link is
>>>
>>>  https://www.regulations.gov/comment/NTIA-2021-0002-0318
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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[AFMUG] Govt money

[Cameron Crum]

Hey all, if you have a few spare minutes, I'd love for you to take a look
at these comments made to the HTIA about the best way to use all the new
money from the infrastructure bill. This is from one of the companies I'm
currently working with. Basically they are advocating for the money to be
spent on a robust middle mile nationwide network open to anyone with local
govt or private entities providing the last mile via wireless or fiber
where fiber makes sense. This is in lieu of just handing money to the big
carriers again, because we all know how that works. I know we would
appreciate any comments on the ntia site, especially those in support of
the proposition. Link is

 https://www.regulations.gov/comment/NTIA-2021-0002-0318
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Passenger van Rentals

[Cameron Crum]

BTW Turo has a bunch of passenger vans in Chicago for the 130-200/day range.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:25 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> Turo is the private person to person rental company Chuck
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Isn’t there an airBNB thing for vehicles?
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2022 2:16 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Passenger van Rentals
>>
>> We need to rent vans in Chicago and drive to the South Carolina area.
>>
>> On 2/16/2022 3:13 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> Look for lakes around the area you intend to go like Lake Powell. Many of
>> the local houseboat rental firms have links to vehicle rentals in the area
>> on their websites since much of their customer base flys in
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 2:58 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking to rent a couple passenger vans to take the church kids on a
>>> trip this summer.  Enterprise has no Vans, since they have a contract
>>> with Fedex/Amazon who's depleted their van fleet, and they can't get new
>>> vehicles like everyone else.  They claim to not even have mini-vans
>>> available for rental right now.  I supposedly have a reservation for 1
>>> 15 passenger Van, but we've been burned by Enterprise in past years when
>>> we go to pick it up, they'll not actually have a van and try to
>>> substitute 2 5 passenger SUV's instead.
>>>
>>> Hertz want's you to use their online booking site, which is setup for
>>> single vehicle rentals, not multiples, and they only have Minivans.
>>> Using the website Chat seems like they just look at the same webpage you
>>> do.
>>>
>>> Am I missing any obvious places for commercial passenger van rental?
>>> There was a movie shoot around here over the summer, they probably
>>> brought in 50 or 60 12 passenger vans to haul people from parking to the
>>> set, but no rental companies label them anymore to see where they were
>>> from.
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Passenger van Rentals

[Cameron Crum]

Turo is the private person to person rental company Chuck

On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Isn’t there an airBNB thing for vehicles?
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2022 2:16 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Passenger van Rentals
>
> We need to rent vans in Chicago and drive to the South Carolina area.
>
> On 2/16/2022 3:13 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Look for lakes around the area you intend to go like Lake Powell. Many of
> the local houseboat rental firms have links to vehicle rentals in the area
> on their websites since much of their customer base flys in
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 2:58 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I'm looking to rent a couple passenger vans to take the church kids on a
>> trip this summer.  Enterprise has no Vans, since they have a contract
>> with Fedex/Amazon who's depleted their van fleet, and they can't get new
>> vehicles like everyone else.  They claim to not even have mini-vans
>> available for rental right now.  I supposedly have a reservation for 1
>> 15 passenger Van, but we've been burned by Enterprise in past years when
>> we go to pick it up, they'll not actually have a van and try to
>> substitute 2 5 passenger SUV's instead.
>>
>> Hertz want's you to use their online booking site, which is setup for
>> single vehicle rentals, not multiples, and they only have Minivans.
>> Using the website Chat seems like they just look at the same webpage you
>> do.
>>
>> Am I missing any obvious places for commercial passenger van rental?
>> There was a movie shoot around here over the summer, they probably
>> brought in 50 or 60 12 passenger vans to haul people from parking to the
>> set, but no rental companies label them anymore to see where they were
>> from.
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Glad to be part of this mailing list

[Cameron Crum]

Can you bury the bar? Because that is like burying the bar.

On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 5:23 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> First, you have to be able to tolerate Steve.  If you can tolerate Steve
> you can stay.
>
> *From:* James Howard
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2022 4:15 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Glad to be part of this mailing list
>
>
> Are they something like the pirate code where it’s not so much of a code
> as a sort of guideline?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2022 5:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Glad to be part of this mailing list
>
>
>
> We don’t just let anyone be part of the group either... we have our
> standards you know.
>
>
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2022 3:57 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Glad to be part of this mailing list
>
>
>
> You made it! Welcome!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 4:30 PM John Scrivner 
> wrote:
>
> I tried to join here a long time ago but had no luck. Hoping I am in the
> mailing list group now. I know there are a lot of good folks on here.
>
> All the best,
>
> John Scrivner
>
> VP - Broadband
>
> Live Oak Bank
>
> 618-237-2387
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Glad to be part of this mailing list

[Cameron Crum]

You made it! Welcome!

On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 4:30 PM John Scrivner 
wrote:

> I tried to join here a long time ago but had no luck. Hoping I am in the
> mailing list group now. I know there are a lot of good folks on here.
> All the best,
> John Scrivner
> VP - Broadband
> Live Oak Bank
> 618-237-2387
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Re: [AFMUG] sms forwarding

[Cameron Crum]

Twilio is a good option if you don't mind paying, although I'm not sure how
it would handle the non-response/escalation requirement. That would have to
be managed by a program somewhere else. You pay for every call, message,
etc and you do need some minor development skills to make it do what you
want. YAs Forrest says, people do build whole call centers out of it, but
that would get complex and pricey. They also have a unified product called
flex that is very feature rich, but also a bit expensive. For less than you
are paying twilio to do all that, you could easily spin up a VM at any
hosting provider with free PBX, add a trunk line, and configure some
scripts to manage the response time/escalation. I also like and use Google
Voice and think it might be able to do 90% of what you need. I have used
both Twilio and use Google Voice as well. I know you don't care much for
the big billing platforms out there, but many have some great communication
features now. For instance, Visp now has a messaging center that works
through SMS, FB, What's App, and is adding more. It can handles incoming
messages from customers and auto reply, open a ticket, chat with sales or
support, etc. The SMS part works through Twilio. I'm sure Sonar and
Powercode, etc will have something similar if they don't already. Lot's of
options, but most require time or money or both.


On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 7:25 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I am going to check it out.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 11, 2022, at 4:51 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> 
> A bit more detail.
>
> If you need more flexibility than Google voice, Twilio is a provider which
> has a whole crap ton of products dealing with telephony.
>
> More importantly for your situation they permit one to build a serverless
> application to handle your incoming calls and SMS.  So you can say "when
> you receive a SMS, forward it onto these 6 cell phones and 4 email
> addresses"
>
> The functionality is so complete that people build entire call centers
> including hold queues, time on hold estimates,  round Robin queues and so
> on.
>
> The erector set comment I made refers to the fact that they give you the
> tools,  and docs and expect you to put them together to do what you want.
>  In your case,  I'd expect twiML being "hosted" in twiML bins might have
> enough functionality.
>
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 6:35 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Twilio will do exactly what you need.   The gotcha is that it is a bit of
>> an erector set.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 4:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Today, while doing some power wiring in the C.O. we shorted the battery
>>> and blew the battery disconnect circuit breaker.
>>> They guy doing it did not know that circuit breaker was behind a panel
>>> in the rectifier shelf.  If you didn’t know how to open the fancy door that
>>> looks like a rectifier module you would have never found it.  Took me a few
>>> minutes to remember there were circuit breakers in there.
>>>
>>> So everything was down for some time.  Customers wanted to know how to
>>> contact us in the event our office phones were down (which they were).
>>>
>>> I would like to have a number they could text that would then forward
>>> that text to all of us that are involved in tech support.  I googled sms
>>> forwarding but am not really seeing what I am looking for.
>>>
>>> Ideas?
>>> An old fashioned call answering service would be nice if they still
>>> exist.  Lots of younger folks prefer texting though.
>>> --
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] DHCP

[Cameron Crum]

Can't you get the dynamic leases through the API?


On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:02 AM Kerry  wrote:

>
> All I can tell you is our experience with mikrotik dhcp. We have been
> running two identical vm's for 10 yrs serving up leases. One main vm does
> all the work, we have a script that runs on each lease
> assignment/deassignment that logs the mac, ip, and datetime in a log in our
> IPAM,  (phpIPAM) and a script that runs twice daily to copy the dhcp
> config, leases, etc to the 'backup' vm. This is a kludge to getting around
> the lack of a common lease 'database'. We can swap the backup vm into place
> in a matter of minutes should the main one fail. And then there are the vm
> backups on top of that.
> Currently, it is maintaining 6700+ leases without breaking a sweat.
> And on top of that, you have all the convenience of winbox, which has been
> invaluable in the day-to-day ops, looking up lease info, client info stored
> in comments in static leases, poolinfo, etc.
> If Mikrotik would engineer a way to export dynamic leases as well as
> static, or set up a db-driven lease system, it'd be perfect.
>
>
> *- Original Message -*
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF [mailto:af@af.afmug.com] 
> *To:* 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Sent:* Sat, 5 Feb 2022 09:58:42 -0700
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DHCP
>
> I wonder if that would be more stable than a simple server or VM running
> free DHCP?
>
>
>
> *From:* Kerry
> *Sent:* Friday, February 4, 2022 6:44 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DHCP
>
> How about a cheap mikrotik? We use mikrotik dhcp to manage around 6000
> leases everyday. On a vm of course.
>
>
> *- Original Message -*
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF [mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *To:* 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Sent:* Fri, 4 Feb 2022 17:01:13 -0700
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] DHCP
>
> I need to spin up DHCP.  Another company I am affiliated with uses
> DHCPatriot.  No idea why it is better than free DHCP.  Any recommendations?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [AFMUG] GIS

[Cameron Crum]

I second Brian's recommendations on QGIS and Manifold. If you want really
powerful GIS functions, Manifold is the best system, hands down. I would
never use Arc or MapInfo again after using manifold and I used to be a
MapInfo trainer. Both QGIS and Manifold can link to external SQL DBs so you
could probably build layers of customer point data with pop-up labels that
contain customer info or create thematic maps based on certain values, etc,
if you are looking for quick visuals.

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 6:31 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> i use qgis and love it, its dolt friendly and will even render. albeit
> slowly on my laptop
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 5:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Are there samples/examples that will help me not have to learn too much?
>> Like a map with data that I can splice in my map and data.  I am a lazy
>> man.
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 7, 2022 4:54 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] GIS
>>
>> I use qgis (open source).  A bit of a learning curve but it's amazingly
>> functional.
>>
>> There is also manifold which is dirt cheap as far as GIS is concerned.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 4:44 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone here use GIS?  Thinking of a blend of a map and customer info.
>>> Too cheap for ESRI.  Are there alternates?
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT having fun

[Cameron Crum]

What is the goal of the project?


On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 9:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Pretty sure these consumer grade microwave ovens are robust from mismatch
> issues.
> They have to be considering all the different loads you can put in the
> oven.  An open waveguide is actually a pretty good antenna with a return
> loss of around 10 dB.  But then it is piped into a box that is totally
> reflective.  In my case I aim the field at a layer of silicon carbide to
> absorb the energy and convert it to heat.
>
> *From:* Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 1, 2022 8:14 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT having fun
>
>
> Yeah, and it's likely to blow the magnatron from the VSWR mismatch.  It's
> been 50 years since I worked with that stuff and had the fancy government
> tools.  Kind of miss it.
> On 1/1/22 18:50, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> If you get hit from an open waveguide it feels like flame.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 1, 2022 5:03 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT having fun
>
>
> 1250 watts of 5GHz radiation or 2GHz of radiation (whichever spectrum it
> was designed for) is damn dangerous if not shielded.  I knew people who
> died from that.  Someone turned on a radar while the array was being worked
> on.  He died.  You could pull a Daniel Jackson, but Olma won't ascend you.
> On 1/1/22 09:04, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Yeah, I have a radiation alarm.  It was going off continually, for a
> moment I thought it was defective.
> Turns out I had a thermocouple wire leaking some RF.  Burnt the piss out
> of my fingers, like picking up a red hot paper clip.  Shut off the
> magnetron and the wire was totally cool to the touch.  Bit of aluminum foil
> as a choke and all was well.  Next step is coupling a second magnetron to
> this cavity.
>
>
> *From:* Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 1, 2022 4:08 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT having fun
>
>
> the warning about eyes and testes should be noted.
> https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/resources-you-radiation-emitting-products/microwave-oven-radiation
> On 12/31/21 16:48, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Pee on it...it works
>
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 1:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Got a pretty bad RF burn from some leakage.  No blister.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Eggnog

[Cameron Crum]

With enough Bourbon in it, I figure the salmonella will be neutralized. But
really, I'm pretty sure the commercially available egg nogs have been
pasteurized. It's not for everyone, but at Christmas time, I do enjoy a
little bit.

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> 1)I don’t like raw eggs. The thought of consuming raw eggs makes me
> queasy.  And I have eaten raw eggs multiple times just to be able to speak
> with authority on the subject.  It is inarguable that I do not like raw
> eggs.
>
> 2)Raw eggs can contain salmonella.  Got that once in a biological
> warfare attack and do not want to repeat it.
>
> 3)If you like eggnog, just let some vanilla ice cream melt and drink
> it.  Same thing.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Merging Data

[Cameron Crum]

The DBI module in perl can read csv files like a database. It would be
pretty quick to open one with say names and addresses, then search second
for matching addresses, update the first with the phones, then search the
3rd with matching phones and update the first with email addresses. This
presupposes the addresses and phones are in the same format in both like
with number of spaces, etc. I suppose you could strip  out all non
alpha-numeric characters, make everything lowercase  in the variables, and
try to match that way if they are not identical info. Otherwise now you are
looking at some regex to figure out matches.

On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> That is helpful, thanks.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 18, 2021 10:38 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Merging Data
>
>
> I would start with a 4th spreadsheet with all the columns you need (names,
> addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses).
>
> Then the challenge is the merge.
>
> Try something like this:
> https://community.powerbi.com/t5/Desktop/Combine-multiple-excel-files-with-different-structure-columns/td-p/1372702
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/18/2021 9:02 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
>
> I have at least three files I need to merge.  Spreadsheets.
>
> Say one has names and addresses
> One has addresses and phone numbers
> One has phone numbers and email addresses
>
> They are not the same length of file so certain records are missing in all
> three files.
> There is something common to allow one file to be merged into at least one
> of the other files.
>
> I really don’t want to write code to parse and search.
> I am hopeful there is some kind of feature in excel that could do this.
> Or I guess I might be able to fire up a database and make it happen.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] What are you gents using?

[Cameron Crum]

might be LAA (License Assisted Access). The carriers are allowed to try to
offload data to unlicensed spectrum now using this.

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 10:35 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Several WISPs in area are getting hammered with 5GHz interference
> especially with DFS hits, the normal channels are overcrowded...
> Ubiquiti and Cambium is mostly what they are usinga few Mimosa out
> there but I know one wisp who replaced all of his with Cambium and 60Ghz
> AirFiber..
> Any ideas?
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[AFMUG] AWS issues?

[Cameron Crum]

Anyone else seeing real slowness from AWS DBs this morning? I couldn't even
load the dashboard a while ago, but now it comes up. Their status says
everything is fine but even simple queries from multiple sources are taking
minutes to execute.
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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Cameron Crum]

Due every 6 months. Periods are Jan1 - June 30 with filing due Sept 1, and
July 1 - Dec 31 with filing due March 1. You have to have an FRN and a
CORES login (new last filing). It's pretty straightforward once you log in.

Cameron

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:57 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> We have the polygons and I think shape files now.  There is a state map we
> keep up to date.
> I just need to know the mechanics, how often, which form, who do you send
> it to, how do you send it.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:51 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting
>
> I do these if you want help. For the deployment, I would just need a
> polygon (KML from GE is fine) around the homes you pass. I can create a
> spatial query against the census blocks as I already have a spatial DB set
> up for this. If you need subscriptions as well I can do those but I'd need
> a bit more info. If you have a DB with the block data, you can do it
> yourself.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have
>> about 40 customers.
>> What is a good way to start?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench-blades.com
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] 477 reporting

[Cameron Crum]

I do these if you want help. For the deployment, I would just need a
polygon (KML from GE is fine) around the homes you pass. I can create a
spatial query against the census blocks as I already have a spatial DB set
up for this. If you need subscriptions as well I can do those but I'd need
a bit more info. If you have a DB with the block data, you can do it
yourself.



On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> I have not yet filed a 477 on my new fiber startup.  But we only have
> about 40 customers.
> What is a good way to start?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Another engineer in our family

[Cameron Crum]

Nice! When I got my EE degree, you automatically got the math minor due to
the number of math courses required. Well done by your niece! We need more
Engineers!

On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 6:07 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> Ditto
> On 12/4/21 15:13, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Fantastic! Congrats to all.
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 4, 2021 3:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: Another engineer in our family
>
> My brother Victor's youngest daughter,  Isabella, graduated as a
> mechanical engineer...minored in Mathematics!!  He is an EE and ME who
> works for Raytheon...that's four engineers in our nuclear family and 34th
> among my cousins...27 of them, female!!
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: fleet plan?

[Cameron Crum]

A couple of things you'll want to check on those trackers is that they are
LTE, and if the battery life is as advertised. The GSM networks that a lot
of these online tracking companies use are getting shut down soon (if not
already) and the old trackers will become worthless. Also, the battery life
that is advertised may be for a once per hour notification (while moving)
or set to alert on motion or "vibration" sense. Make sure you get what they
say you are getting. I have just completed designing an in house tracking
solution for Visp and many of the trackers I started with aren't going to
work now. The LTE trackers (of which there aren't many available) are 4
times the price of the GSM ones even in volume. I have yet to find one for
less than about $40 (bulk cost) and most are 50-100. If they are cheaper
than that, they probably aren't LTE. I'd stay away from BTLE unless you are
in a high density population area. They become pretty worthless in rural
areas.

On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 8:46 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Better for a truck.
>
> Bit expensive for a trailer or heavy equipment IMO.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 6:23 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Daniel Martinez
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 29, 2021 4:19 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: fleet plan?
>>
>> Hi;
>>
>> We offer a discount of 10% off each unit if 10-19 are purchased and the
>> subscription drops to $11.65/month per unit when you have 10-19 active
>> units. Many other companies have a slightly cheaper monthly subscription
>> but with a product price sometimes double or triple our product price. Keep
>> in mind our wired vehicle trackers update every 30 seconds and on corners.
>> Some companies offer a very cheap monthly subscription with only a few
>> updates a day.
>>
>> If you have less than 10 units, paying for a year upfront gets you the
>> best discount at $132.09 per unit, the GV50 is currently at $49.95, the
>> first year would be $182.04 for the product and 12 months of service. With
>> another company you would have to get 10 or more units to get a discount
>> with a similar price to that.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Daniel.
>> Optimus Tracker.
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Upgrading to AC radios

[Cameron Crum]

Although with those tapered sections it does look like it might be this
Rohn BX. https://www.qsl.net/n4emp/BX_Tower_Manual.pdf


On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 9:46 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> I had one of these for a small neighborhood repeater, or at least one of
> the same design with the riveted cross braces. It was a Delhi DMX.
>
> https://alliancecorporation.ca/images/documents/Wade-Antenna/Roof_Mounts_and_DMX_Tower_Series/Towers/Wade-Antenna-DMX-Tower-Series-Specifications.pdf
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 2:36 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> These are what I have but didn't wear yesterday...duh
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 8:33 AM can...@believewireless.net <
>> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Jaime, what boots do you use?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 10:03 PM Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No...Sucky Tower From Hell Model: FU-666
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 6:58 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oh yeah. I think that's the one.
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/2021 5:55 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Trylon, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 6:26 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think it's Rohn. Some other brand that escapes me at the
>>>>>> moment. I think some people call any 3-sided tower a Rohn. Kind of like
>>>>>> refrigerators used to all be called Frigidaire, or all facial tissue is
>>>>>> Kleenex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bp
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/23/2021 12:26 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Owner says it's a Rohn...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 1:15 PM Cameron Crum 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought those were Delhi towers? I had one of those under that
>>>>>>> brand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cameron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 11:56 AM Jaime Solorza <
>>>>>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep Rohn...even with my heavy expensive boots, feet hurt...and I am
>>>>>>>> no wimp...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:35 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I had steel shank climbing boots and still had a hard time with
>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>>>> Painful.  Nothing horizontal.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are they Rohn?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>> From: Bill Prince
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 10:14 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Upgrading to AC radios
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh yeah. Those stink.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2021 9:05 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > I hate these Rohn towers...tough on your feet...
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Upgrading to AC radios

[Cameron Crum]

I had one of these for a small neighborhood repeater, or at least one of
the same design with the riveted cross braces. It was a Delhi DMX.
https://alliancecorporation.ca/images/documents/Wade-Antenna/Roof_Mounts_and_DMX_Tower_Series/Towers/Wade-Antenna-DMX-Tower-Series-Specifications.pdf


On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 2:36 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> These are what I have but didn't wear yesterday...duh
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 8:33 AM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
>> Jaime, what boots do you use?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 10:03 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No...Sucky Tower From Hell Model: FU-666
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 6:58 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh yeah. I think that's the one.
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> On 11/23/2021 5:55 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Trylon, I think.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 6:26 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think it's Rohn. Some other brand that escapes me at the
>>>>> moment. I think some people call any 3-sided tower a Rohn. Kind of like
>>>>> refrigerators used to all be called Frigidaire, or all facial tissue is
>>>>> Kleenex.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/2021 12:26 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Owner says it's a Rohn...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 1:15 PM Cameron Crum 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought those were Delhi towers? I had one of those under that
>>>>>> brand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cameron
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 11:56 AM Jaime Solorza <
>>>>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep Rohn...even with my heavy expensive boots, feet hurt...and I am
>>>>>>> no wimp...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:35 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had steel shank climbing boots and still had a hard time with one
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>>> Painful.  Nothing horizontal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are they Rohn?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: Bill Prince
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 10:14 AM
>>>>>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Upgrading to AC radios
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh yeah. Those stink.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2021 9:05 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>>>>>> > I hate these Rohn towers...tough on your feet...
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Upgrading to AC radios

[Cameron Crum]

I thought those were Delhi towers? I had one of those under that brand.

Cameron

On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 11:56 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Yep Rohn...even with my heavy expensive boots, feet hurt...and I am no
> wimp...
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:35 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I had steel shank climbing boots and still had a hard time with one of
>> those.
>> Painful.  Nothing horizontal.
>>
>> Are they Rohn?
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 10:14 AM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Upgrading to AC radios
>>
>> Oh yeah. Those stink.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/23/2021 9:05 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>> > I hate these Rohn towers...tough on your feet...
>> >
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Cameron Crum]

You sound like the prosecutor... he just should have taken his beating and
liked it, right? Everyone who attacked the kid had a violent past.

Skateboards never kill people...oh wait...
https://www.northcoastjournal.com/NewsBlog/archives/2021/05/05/man-found-guilty-in-skateboard-attack-death-of-good-samaritan


On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:34 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Hold them accountable with _Due Process_   which this kid got but the
> "rioters" didn't.   I think if it was your relative that was dead in the
> street YOUR perspective might be different.   No one died in this event
> _Except_ as a result of this kid.   Was it right that the guy was
> beating him with a skateboard, NO.  Was he going to die from the beating
> with a skateboard?  Not likely...  Was he at a house/business defending
> it/them?  No  Was he a perfect Media (either side) tool, most certainly...
>
> On 11/19/21 1:19 PM, Larry Smith wrote:
> > So in your view the riots, burning, looting are ok but not
> > the holding of them accountable.  Wonder if it were your
> > house or business (or families) if you would feel differently.
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[Cameron Crum]

Does anyone do anything but parrot the inaccuracies of the media these
days? He did not "cross state lines" with a firearm. The firearm never left
the town. His father lived in the town and he worked there as a lifeguard.
He lived less than 20 minutes away. The thug who lost his bicep drove from
further away and was breaking the law by possessing a firearm as he was a
felon. Rittenhouse wasn't there to "police" anything. He is trained in
first aid and was there throughout the day cleaning graffiti off walls and
actually rendering first aid to people as is shown in numerous pictures if
you care to seek them out. You can hear him on several of the videos
offering first aid. He was in legal possession of the firearm the whole
time. He served in cadet programs for both the police and fire.
Sometimes it's worthwhile to get out of the echo chamber.

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:04 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> No comments on the riots or lack thereof, but it seems to me that the
> young twerp crossed state lines with a semi-automatic to be the
> self-appointed "police", and as a result a couple of people died. If said
> young twerp had stayed home and watched Chuck Norris on TV, maybe no one
> would have died, and maybe a few windows might have been broken.
>
> I do not hold windows and lives as equivalent.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/19/2021 11:07 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
>
> (I hope I don’t regret this)
>
> The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in Wisconsin.
>
> Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
> Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for violence”.
> Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
> It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are sick of riots.
> But the media are certainly not sick of them.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Help me win this contest

[Cameron Crum]

So what was it? Did anyone guess right?

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 2:30 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> I would guess some kind of press
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 1:04 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I thought I could answer online but I guess I have to call in at 10:50
>> and
>> try...
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Robert Andrews
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 11:44 AM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Help me win this contest
>>
>> After looking at the clues and guesses, and your input, I double down
>> with this answer...
>>
>> On 11/16/21 10:31 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> > Espresso machine?
>> >
>> > On 11/16/21 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >> I will split the prize with you.
>> >>
>> https://www.z104country.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MYSOUND090821.WAV.wav
>> >> You gotta be able to receive the FM broadcast signal direct to win.
>> >> List of clues and prior guesses here:
>> >> https://www.z104country.com/contests/
>> >> It sounds like a single stroke machine.  Probably a limit switch shuts
>> >> off the motor.  Motor has a characteristic of a hermetically sealed
>> >> compressor.
>> >> Like an orange squeezer.  I would guess a punch press but since this
>> is
>> >> on a regular broadcast station I doubt it is a relatively obscure
>> piece
>> >> of industrial equipment.
>> >> But what would a person have that is electro mechanical single stoke?
>> >>
>> >
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Help me win this contest

[Cameron Crum]

I would guess some kind of press

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 1:04 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I thought I could answer online but I guess I have to call in at 10:50 and
> try...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2021 11:44 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Help me win this contest
>
> After looking at the clues and guesses, and your input, I double down
> with this answer...
>
> On 11/16/21 10:31 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> > Espresso machine?
> >
> > On 11/16/21 9:50 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> I will split the prize with you.
> >>
> https://www.z104country.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/MYSOUND090821.WAV.wav
> >> You gotta be able to receive the FM broadcast signal direct to win.
> >> List of clues and prior guesses here:
> >> https://www.z104country.com/contests/
> >> It sounds like a single stroke machine.  Probably a limit switch shuts
> >> off the motor.  Motor has a characteristic of a hermetically sealed
> >> compressor.
> >> Like an orange squeezer.  I would guess a punch press but since this is
> >> on a regular broadcast station I doubt it is a relatively obscure piece
> >> of industrial equipment.
> >> But what would a person have that is electro mechanical single stoke?
> >>
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees

[Cameron Crum]

I believe they are going to start limiting these services as well, but it
would be better to ask one of the carriers. I'll talk to my reb at
bandwidth.com and see what they say about the email stuff.


On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 8:25 AM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> Another list of text to email addresses:
>
>
>
>
> https://20somethingfinance.com/how-to-send-text-messages-sms-via-email-for-free/
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 16, 2021 8:43 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
>
>
>
> But again, what if I am not using it for marketing.  We were planning on
> putting a text notification system in our helpdesk, that would inform
> customers what updates occurred with their ticket.  That is not marketing?
> How does this fit in?
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 16, 2021 7:27 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
>
>
>
> That's just an extension of your personal phone number. It's not (supposed
> to be) used for marketing campaigns.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> <https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ics%2dil.com=EBA6EFDD-D0E8-1D05-B12F-2F905FEA4BE6=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-a20d6a7a137bfcf3b5ac20612ed61d6dbe57782e>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"Robert Andrews" 
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, November 15, 2021 3:34:36 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
>
> I wonder if we will lose messages.android.com
>
> On 11/15/21 12:41 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > How do you send an SMS from a computer to a phone?  Doesn't there have
> > to be an intermediary system in there somewhere, Be it Email or an API?
> > Maybe DOD number would be the more correct term, the number that is
> > sourced on the SMS message when it enters the mobile carrier network.
> >
> > On 11/15/2021 2:36 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> I really don’t get why DIDs are called out.  You can send SMS from any
> >> computer to any phone.  Does DID not mean “Direct Inward Dial” in this
> >> context?
> >> *From:* Cameron Crum
> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 1:30 PM
> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
> >> Yes this is a new requirement by the carriers. It is their way of
> >> keeping spam down. Everyone who uses sms is going to have to do this.
> >> Full implementation has been pushed out many times, but it looks like
> >> they are finally going to start forcing it.
> >> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 2:24 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
> >>
> >> I think so?  This is from the TOS you have to accept before any
> >> payment is made at campaignregistry.com
> >> <http://campaignregistry.com>. I think you can register 49 DID's
> >> per Campaign.
> >>
> >> But I'm guessing that each business would have to be a separate
> >> campaign.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/15/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >>> So just DIDs and not just regular lines?
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message- From: Nate Burke Sent: Monday,
> >>> November 15, 2021 1:08 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] VoIP
> >>

Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah your cell phone is exempt, but I bet if you start sending out
thousands of texts per day from that number, it will get flagged. This is
for app to sms. Voip is considered an app in this case.

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 4:43 PM Daniel White  wrote:

> If you have a 10DLC... then it applies.  Volume is only relevant to the
> charges.
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>
> Dennis Burgess 
> November 15, 2021 at 15:16
>
> The next question is what if you don’t need 10 messages per second,
> something like maybe 100 messages per day?
>
>
>
> Does this still apply?
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of * Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 4:10 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
>
>
>
> Here is a decent explanation of the program.
>
>
>
> https://telnyx.com/resources/what-is-10dlc
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 3:35 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>
> Cameron Crum 
> November 15, 2021 at 15:10
> Here is a decent explanation of the program.
>
> https://telnyx.com/resources/what-is-10dlc
>
>
>
>
> Robert Andrews 
> November 15, 2021 at 14:34
> I wonder if we will lose messages.android.com
>
>
>
> Nate Burke 
> November 15, 2021 at 13:41
> How do you send an SMS from a computer to a phone?  Doesn't there have to
> be an intermediary system in there somewhere, Be it Email or an API?  Maybe
> DOD number would be the more correct term, the number that is sourced on
> the SMS message when it enters the mobile carrier network.
>
> On 11/15/2021 2:36 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Chuck McCown via AF 
> November 15, 2021 at 13:36
> I really don’t get why DIDs are called out.  You can send SMS from any
> computer to any phone.  Does DID not mean “Direct Inward Dial” in this
> context?
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 1:30 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
>
> Yes this is a new requirement by the carriers. It is their way of keeping
> spam down. Everyone who uses sms is going to have to do this. Full
> implementation has been pushed out many times, but it looks like they are
> finally going to start forcing it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees

[Cameron Crum]

Here is a decent explanation of the program.

https://telnyx.com/resources/what-is-10dlc


On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 3:35 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> I wonder if we will lose messages.android.com
>
> On 11/15/21 12:41 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > How do you send an SMS from a computer to a phone?  Doesn't there have
> > to be an intermediary system in there somewhere, Be it Email or an API?
> > Maybe DOD number would be the more correct term, the number that is
> > sourced on the SMS message when it enters the mobile carrier network.
> >
> > On 11/15/2021 2:36 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> I really don’t get why DIDs are called out.  You can send SMS from any
> >> computer to any phone.  Does DID not mean “Direct Inward Dial” in this
> >> context?
> >> *From:* Cameron Crum
> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 1:30 PM
> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
> >> Yes this is a new requirement by the carriers. It is their way of
> >> keeping spam down. Everyone who uses sms is going to have to do this.
> >> Full implementation has been pushed out many times, but it looks like
> >> they are finally going to start forcing it.
> >> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 2:24 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
> >>
> >> I think so?  This is from the TOS you have to accept before any
> >> payment is made at campaignregistry.com
> >> <http://campaignregistry.com>. I think you can register 49 DID's
> >> per Campaign.
> >>
> >> But I'm guessing that each business would have to be a separate
> >> campaign.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/15/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >>> So just DIDs and not just regular lines?
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message- From: Nate Burke Sent: Monday,
> >>> November 15, 2021 1:08 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] VoIP
> >>> SMS campaign fees
> >>> I saw a notice from Voip Innovations that any business DID's that
> >>> send SMS messages to a consumer in any way now have to be
> >>> registered with 'Campaignregistry.com'  Looks like this requires
> >>> a $200 signup, and then potentially $10/month/DID. Anyone already
> >>> gone through this?  Talking to VI, it seems they're not even
> >>> sure, but it's a VI requirement by Dec 15.
> >>>
> >>> The whole process seems confusing.  Luckily I only have 1
> >>> customer that Uses the SMS services, and I have it setup on our
> >>> office number so customers can text in requests, and pictures
> >>> (which we have never publicized, but happens frequently)
> >>>
> >>> VI Makes it seem like non-compliance will be expensive.
> >>> $10,000/violation keeps being referenced.
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >> 
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT question for the borg

[Cameron Crum]

In my experience, towing companies are given a lot of leeway when it comes
to vehicle damage, etc. I never really understood this, but they seem to be
a protected class. There are a lot of shady ones out there, but for some
reason they get special dispensation when it comes to liability and many of
them take full advantage of it.



On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 2:35 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> A small claims action costs about $135 to file and $35 for service,
> depending on jurisdiction.  So an hour of effort and $200 gets them sued.
> And as long as you are not hitting the max ($11,000) you get your costs
> back too assuming you win.  Even if you don’t $200 is a ticket to a fun
> show.
>
> *From:* Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 1:30 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT question for the borg
>
>
> I've had to repair many cars, drive-line bolts are usually special made to
> fit only one thing and they are hardened usually to grade 8.  You can't get
> replacements anywhere, usually.  Since the tow company is being cavalier
> about it, they need a wake-up asshole lawsuit.
> On 11/15/21 11:54, Cameron Crum wrote:
>
> Bill the renter and send an invoice to the towing company. If the towing
> company pays, refund the renter...or not, depending on how you view it
> ethically. I would say your time and energy spent in reacquiring the
> vehicle and repairs more than makes up for the potential of getting double
> your money back.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:33 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> I'd think you could bill whichever one you wanted to in that situation.
>> Just because you can hold the renter liable doesn't necessarily mean you
>> want to. The towing company should be the ones that ultimately pay for it
>> either way.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:08 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> I don't do a lot of rentals, but if your Enterprise rent-a-car gets
>>> towed, enterprise will just bill you for everything, they're not going to
>>> bother going after whoever actually did it?  The damage happened while it
>>> was in the possession of the renter, seems the renter would be the only
>>> liability to you.  It's their fault that it got towed and needs repair,
>>> whether or not the towing company caused the damage.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/15/2021 12:49 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>
>>> I get your point, but the renter did not cause the “damage” the tow
>>> company did.
>>> When in the custody of the tow company, they are on the hook for all
>>> damage.
>>>
>>> *From:* Nate Burke
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 11:03 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT question for the borg
>>>
>>> Also, why would you be billing the towing company, and not the renter?
>>> Cost incurred during rental should be the renters responsibility.  If they
>>> want to re-bill the towing company that shouldn't involve you.  Same as if
>>> they drove it into a pylon and you had to replace the bumper.
>>>
>>> On 11/15/2021 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>
>>> I will just bill them for the repair.  And if they don’t pay in a month
>>> to two file a small claims action.  Very easy.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 9:46 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT question for the borg
>>>
>>> Get a good lawyer
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:29 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I rent out equipment.
>>>> A contractor that rents a truck from me let his employee take it home.
>>>> He parked it at an apartment house either in someone elses spot or did
>>>> not register it with the apartment company.
>>>> It got towed.
>>>> I had to send paperwork to the towing company releasing it to the
>>>> contractor.
>>>> This morning, we learned they took off the driveline and will not put
>>>> it back on.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t think that is legal.  They disabled it.  They got paid for the
>>>> tow.  They should restore it.
>>>> Unless someone can show me where they have the legal ability to do
>>>> that, I will probably bill them for the repair and then sue when they don’t
>>>> pay.
>>>>
>>>> Opinions?
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.

Re: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees

[Cameron Crum]

Yes this is a new requirement by the carriers. It is their way of keeping
spam down. Everyone who uses sms is going to have to do this. Full
implementation has been pushed out many times, but it looks like they are
finally going to start forcing it.




On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 2:24 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I think so?  This is from the TOS you have to accept before any payment is
> made at campaignregistry.com.  I think you can register 49 DID's per
> Campaign.
>
> But I'm guessing that each business would have to be a separate campaign.
>
>
>
> On 11/15/2021 2:15 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> So just DIDs and not just regular lines?
>
> -Original Message- From: Nate Burke Sent: Monday, November 15,
> 2021 1:08 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] VoIP SMS campaign fees
> I saw a notice from Voip Innovations that any business DID's that send SMS
> messages to a consumer in any way now have to be registered with
> 'Campaignregistry.com'  Looks like this requires a $200 signup, and then
> potentially $10/month/DID.  Anyone already gone through this?  Talking to
> VI, it seems they're not even sure, but it's a VI requirement by Dec 15.
>
> The whole process seems confusing.  Luckily I only have 1 customer that
> Uses the SMS services, and I have it setup on our office number so
> customers can text in requests, and pictures (which we have never
> publicized, but happens frequently)
>
> VI Makes it seem like non-compliance will be expensive. $10,000/violation
> keeps being referenced.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT question for the borg

[Cameron Crum]

Bill the renter and send an invoice to the towing company. If the towing
company pays, refund the renter...or not, depending on how you view it
ethically. I would say your time and energy spent in reacquiring the
vehicle and repairs more than makes up for the potential of getting double
your money back.



On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:33 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> I'd think you could bill whichever one you wanted to in that situation.
> Just because you can hold the renter liable doesn't necessarily mean you
> want to. The towing company should be the ones that ultimately pay for it
> either way.
>
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:08 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I don't do a lot of rentals, but if your Enterprise rent-a-car gets
>> towed, enterprise will just bill you for everything, they're not going to
>> bother going after whoever actually did it?  The damage happened while it
>> was in the possession of the renter, seems the renter would be the only
>> liability to you.  It's their fault that it got towed and needs repair,
>> whether or not the towing company caused the damage.
>>
>>
>> On 11/15/2021 12:49 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I get your point, but the renter did not cause the “damage” the tow
>> company did.
>> When in the custody of the tow company, they are on the hook for all
>> damage.
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 11:03 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT question for the borg
>>
>> Also, why would you be billing the towing company, and not the renter?
>> Cost incurred during rental should be the renters responsibility.  If they
>> want to re-bill the towing company that shouldn't involve you.  Same as if
>> they drove it into a pylon and you had to replace the bumper.
>>
>> On 11/15/2021 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I will just bill them for the repair.  And if they don’t pay in a month
>> to two file a small claims action.  Very easy.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 15, 2021 9:46 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT question for the borg
>>
>> Get a good lawyer
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 9:29 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I rent out equipment.
>>> A contractor that rents a truck from me let his employee take it home.
>>> He parked it at an apartment house either in someone elses spot or did
>>> not register it with the apartment company.
>>> It got towed.
>>> I had to send paperwork to the towing company releasing it to the
>>> contractor.
>>> This morning, we learned they took off the driveline and will not put it
>>> back on.
>>>
>>> I don’t think that is legal.  They disabled it.  They got paid for the
>>> tow.  They should restore it.
>>> Unless someone can show me where they have the legal ability to do that,
>>> I will probably bill them for the repair and then sue when they don’t pay.
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT something I learned

[Cameron Crum]

Missing Missy is one of the best.

On Sat, Nov 6, 2021 at 12:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> https://27bslash6.com/missy.html
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, November 5, 2021 7:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT something I learned
>
> This makes me smile
>
> Actually, you were asking me to design a logotype which would have taken
> me a few hours and fifteen years experience.
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021, 11:23 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> That kid of sounds a little like this: https://27bslash6.com/p2p2.html.
>> If you need some good laughs, read this guys articles. IT is a riot.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 10:35 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hopefully he buys some good tooling that you can buy up at the
>>> bankruptcy auction.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2021, 3:17 PM Sterling Jacobson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I sense high degree of manipulative behavior there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You sure “missed out” lol!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good riddance to asshats is what I say.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Life’s far too short to deal with yahoos like this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 3, 2021 12:39 PM
>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT something I learned
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Over the years, I went from taking every opportunity and frequently low
>>>> balling to get the work to turning away many more opportunities than I
>>>> take.  Just this morning a guy that had been trying to get me to  help him
>>>> develop some kind of ground heater (whatever that is, I think perhaps for
>>>> thawing ground)  a few weeks ago.  Here is an email he just sent:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So,  I have made the assumption you folks are not interested in taking
>>>> on this project of mine. This will be the SECOND time you've turned away a
>>>> project for me. I've seen your facility, I know it's capabilities, but it
>>>> just seems there's no real interest in outside work. With the funds I had
>>>> allotted to have this work done, I have decided to use to purchase our own
>>>> equipment. With all the writing all over your building, I was pretty sure
>>>> you folks would be THEEE place to get some one-off things accomplished. We
>>>> will be doing our work now in house, or have several operations in Montana
>>>> for the larger pieces. We were really looking forward to doing business
>>>> with you, but sadly, that ship has sailed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I understood that.. no one even wanted to quote either project. Both
>>>> fit your production capabilities.  We had time to wait.  But it's all kind
>>>> of moot at this point.. We've moved on.  I drive by there at least once a
>>>> week. All the wording on the building and websites just feels misleading at
>>>> this point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The first project I brought in was pretty small, and was told you
>>>> didn't have the staff on hand.  I tried to present a resume,  but no one
>>>> was interested in that either. So here we are that,  about to launch a
>>>> national company,  and now have our own shop. Just would have been nice to
>>>> get an up front own and honest answer from the start that you guys weren't
>>>> interested at all, or didn't want the business.  I've been waiting for a
>>>> quote for some time which waged some time,  but after the first issue,
>>>> it's just not worth my time.  I just wanted you folks to know where I was
>>>> coming from
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I forwarded the only three emails I have ever sent to him.  In all I
>>>> referred him to other shops, never offered to quote.  But this is a perfect
>>>> example of the type of wingnut you want to avoid.  Good that in a period of
>>>> a month he now has his own shop and manufacturing capabilities etc.  Lost
>>>> out bigtime here... yeah, I lost out on bitcoin too.  Oh well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT something I learned

[Cameron Crum]

That kid of sounds a little like this: https://27bslash6.com/p2p2.html. If
you need some good laughs, read this guys articles. IT is a riot.



On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 10:35 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Hopefully he buys some good tooling that you can buy up at the bankruptcy
> auction.
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2021, 3:17 PM Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
>> I sense high degree of manipulative behavior there.
>>
>>
>>
>> You sure “missed out” lol!
>>
>>
>>
>> Good riddance to asshats is what I say.
>>
>>
>>
>> Life’s far too short to deal with yahoos like this.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 3, 2021 12:39 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT something I learned
>>
>>
>>
>> Over the years, I went from taking every opportunity and frequently low
>> balling to get the work to turning away many more opportunities than I
>> take.  Just this morning a guy that had been trying to get me to  help him
>> develop some kind of ground heater (whatever that is, I think perhaps for
>> thawing ground)  a few weeks ago.  Here is an email he just sent:
>>
>>
>>
>> So,  I have made the assumption you folks are not interested in taking on
>> this project of mine. This will be the SECOND time you've turned away a
>> project for me. I've seen your facility, I know it's capabilities, but it
>> just seems there's no real interest in outside work. With the funds I had
>> allotted to have this work done, I have decided to use to purchase our own
>> equipment. With all the writing all over your building, I was pretty sure
>> you folks would be THEEE place to get some one-off things accomplished. We
>> will be doing our work now in house, or have several operations in Montana
>> for the larger pieces. We were really looking forward to doing business
>> with you, but sadly, that ship has sailed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I understood that.. no one even wanted to quote either project. Both fit
>> your production capabilities.  We had time to wait.  But it's all kind of
>> moot at this point.. We've moved on.  I drive by there at least once a
>> week. All the wording on the building and websites just feels misleading at
>> this point.
>>
>>
>>
>> The first project I brought in was pretty small, and was told you didn't
>> have the staff on hand.  I tried to present a resume,  but no one was
>> interested in that either. So here we are that,  about to launch a national
>> company,  and now have our own shop. Just would have been nice to get an up
>> front own and honest answer from the start that you guys weren't interested
>> at all, or didn't want the business.  I've been waiting for a quote for
>> some time which waged some time,  but after the first issue,  it's just not
>> worth my time.  I just wanted you folks to know where I was coming from
>>
>>
>>
>> I forwarded the only three emails I have ever sent to him.  In all I
>> referred him to other shops, never offered to quote.  But this is a perfect
>> example of the type of wingnut you want to avoid.  Good that in a period of
>> a month he now has his own shop and manufacturing capabilities etc.  Lost
>> out bigtime here... yeah, I lost out on bitcoin too.  Oh well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Good system for remote access to tower site when no Internet

[Cameron Crum]

Run a series of Helium miners in 900 with big antennas and use an IOT
device. You can mine Helium and reboot your devices.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 7:49 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Have you checked in with any 2 way radio company?  Similar to what the
> first responders use.
>
> I want to say the company out of Dayton wanted something like $80/mo for
> our own channel and two radios?
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 11:13 AM Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Hey guys!
>>
>>
>>
>> We have some towers that are waaay out in the boonies and often little or
>> no cell service.  While working on the towers, sometimes the guys can’t
>> communicate with the office.
>>
>>
>>
>> Exploring options for using 2-way somehow.  Maybe install repeaters on
>> strategic towers geographically to get to a tower that can convert to VOIP?
>>
>>
>>
>> Of some other intelligent, cost effective solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> *Paul McCall, President *
>>
>> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>>
>> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>>
>> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>>
>> *772-564-6800*
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Duct

[Cameron Crum]

I hate when the possums suck on the gas and then mess with the wires.


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:31 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Lol, that's fair. But that was possums and electrical
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 12:27 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> Didn't he have a fire? Hmmm...
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:21 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My dad may or may not use it for natural gas
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 12:06 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Poly pipe for sprinklers is half to 1/4th the price of PEX.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2021 10:57 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Duct
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Pipe-PEX-Pipe/UV-Resistant/N-5yc1vZ1z18i33Z1z1nc6u
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:22 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From a PEX manufacturer’s site:
>>>>>
>>>>> “Do not install … within 5 ft. of direct view from fluorescent and LED
>>>>> lighting without protecting the pipe with a UV-blocking material.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Physical effects - The long-term performance of PEX will be damaged by
>>>>> excessive UV radiation from sunlight, especially when tubing is used in
>>>>> chlorinated hot-water systems after exposure (i.e. potential reduced
>>>>> lifetime) - PEX should not be stored outdoors - Users should keep PEX
>>>>> stored indoors in the original packaging prior to installation for
>>>>> protection against UV/sunlight and other potential hazards
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:12 AM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Duct
>>>>>
>>>>> He said in ground, I think pex is very close to normal hdpe
>>>>> innerduct.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both pex and black water line are at the hardware store, irrigation
>>>>> supply and Amazon.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 8:07 AM Matt 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > black waterline works cheap too
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where do get this and what is it exactly called?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> pex tubing, cheap as dirt
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 4:50 PM Matt 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> What is everyone using as a duct for shorter runs to bury cat5 or
>>>>>> >>> fiber in?  Looking for something cheap for mostly cat5. It's a
>>>>>> pain to
>>>>>> >>> have direct burial stuff struck etc. then have to redo the entire
>>>>>> run.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Duct

[Cameron Crum]

Didn't he have a fire? Hmmm...

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:21 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> My dad may or may not use it for natural gas
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 12:06 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Poly pipe for sprinklers is half to 1/4th the price of PEX.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2021 10:57 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Duct
>>
>>
>> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pipe-Fittings-Pipe-PEX-Pipe/UV-Resistant/N-5yc1vZ1z18i33Z1z1nc6u
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 9:22 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From a PEX manufacturer’s site:
>>>
>>> “Do not install … within 5 ft. of direct view from fluorescent and LED
>>> lighting without protecting the pipe with a UV-blocking material.”
>>>
>>> Physical effects - The long-term performance of PEX will be damaged by
>>> excessive UV radiation from sunlight, especially when tubing is used in
>>> chlorinated hot-water systems after exposure (i.e. potential reduced
>>> lifetime) - PEX should not be stored outdoors - Users should keep PEX
>>> stored indoors in the original packaging prior to installation for
>>> protection against UV/sunlight and other potential hazards
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:12 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Duct
>>>
>>> He said in ground, I think pex is very close to normal hdpe innerduct.
>>>
>>> Both pex and black water line are at the hardware store, irrigation
>>> supply and Amazon.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 8:07 AM Matt  wrote:
>>>
 >
 > black waterline works cheap too

 Where do get this and what is it exactly called?

 >> pex tubing, cheap as dirt
 >>
 >> On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 4:50 PM Matt 
 wrote:
 >>>
 >>> What is everyone using as a duct for shorter runs to bury cat5 or
 >>> fiber in?  Looking for something cheap for mostly cat5. It's a pain
 to
 >>> have direct burial stuff struck etc. then have to redo the entire
 run.
 >>>

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>>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: House Vibrations

[Cameron Crum]

We need video evidence. Inquiring minds want to know.

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:47 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Still doing it this morning.  Not quite as bad as last night, but you can
> still feel it on the window glass.  I'm going to try to find a laser
> pointer to reflect off the glass to record the movement.
>
> On 9/9/2021 10:40 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> It's those nerds over at Fermilab. They're doing some new weird physics.
>
> We (outside of Illinois) will read about it in the paper RSN.
>
> We are happy to have known you.
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 8:18 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> IT'S DOING IT AGAIN TONIGHT!   If I put my hand on the glass of any of
>> the windows in the house, I can feel them vibrating.  I Would say it's at
>> about 20 or 30hz.  If I hold the side of the TV that's wall mounted, I can
>> feel it there too.  Definitely was not there during the day.  64 degrees
>> outside, clear skies and 0 wind.
>>
>> On 9/9/2021 3:50 PM, Robert wrote:
>>
>> This same thought came up in another group I participate in.   Basically
>> how much more can we screw this planet up...  It explains the alien
>> sightings...
>>
>>
>> Oh and google had the answer for the 3 solar mass black hole as 13.5
>> Klicks...   Not so small, actually...   An Asteroid much less a BH of that
>> size is going to make a pretty bad day for everyone and everything on the
>> planet...
>>
>> On 9/9/21 1:07 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>
>> "All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at
>> your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth
>> years, so you've had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it's
>> far too late to start making a fuss about it now"
>>
>> On 9/9/2021 2:37 PM, Robert wrote:
>>
>> F.   they just created a micro black hole.   That's why the aliens are
>> gathering.   Nothing like a planet imploding for inter-stellar headlines...
>>
>> On 9/9/21 11:24 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/56643677
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 12:04 PM Nate Burke < 
>> n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We are are literally next to Fermilab, as in, across the street, so it
>>> was probably some new mind control experiment they were doing.
>>>
>>> On 9/9/2021 11:46 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>
>>> I am not saying it's Aliens but it's Aliens
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, 10:45 AM Nate Burke < 
>>> n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:
>>>
 We're about 40 miles west of Downtown Chicago.  So not a seismic active
 zone.  Nothing was reported in local media that I've seen.

 On 9/9/2021 11:37 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

 What part of the country? Mexico had some earthquake activity recently..

 On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, 10:26 AM Nate Burke < 
 n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:

> My SO woke up last night around 4am because the house was Vibrating.
> No
> Joke, Windows were rattling, putting your hand on the 2nd floor wall
> you
> could feel it.  Light blubs in a ceiling fan were rattling, and the
> wall
> mounted TV you could see shaking.  There were no storms and no wind
> last
> night.  In certain parts of the house it seemed like you could feel a
> very low hum.  Think of the scene from 'Raiders' when they open the
> ark
> on the island, a sound like that. Standing outside you didn't hear
> anything.  I thought maybe a freight train (1 mile to the tracks), but
> it went on for over 30 min.  There is a quarry about 4 miles away that
> does have underground tunnels.  Maybe they were doing some drilling
> that
> was coming through the ground?  I turned off the furnace blower, and
> no
> other mechanical was operating in the house, so I don't think that it
> was locally generated.
>
> It was just spooky.  Everything is normal this morning.  I feel like
> I've 'felt' the sound before, but never to the extent that it was last
> night.
>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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[AFMUG] OT ineotitude

[Cameron Crum]

Since we've had so many posts about the ineptitude of leadership in the
past 4 years, I'm wondering where all the posts are now?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: fun

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah, I always thought it was just your typical infomercial type of thing
until an airbnb I stayed at had them. I went home and ordered a bunch. Best
pillows I've ever had.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 9:57 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Well at least he chose pillow manufacturing for a while before choosing
> batshit.  I have one of his pillows and I really like it.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 17, 2021 8:38 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: fun
>
> Hes what happens when you have a prior crack addiction and a boatload of
> dough. Addict brains look for something to fill their addiction with. He
> happenned to choose batshit
>
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 12:24 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Good question. Now I am confused.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 8/14/2021 9:52 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> Trump or the mypillow guy?
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 11:19 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> Am I the onlyone who thinks he looks and acts like a doofus?
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 8/14/2021 8:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>
>>> [image: image]
>>>
>>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2021 9:08 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: fun
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** OT interesting graphic

[Cameron Crum]

Seems like a very subjective data set. How do you determine deaths from
"air pollution"?


On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 3:04 PM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> I'd rather see the deaths by accident alone. "Air pollution" seems like it
> could be a fuzzy number.
>
> On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 1:19 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> [image: nuclear-10adesktop-2]
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Hiring guys off the street

[Cameron Crum]

You would have to account for their payroll and pay for them if your
insurance company will even allow it. It looks like most won't take you on
and many will drop you if you use day labor.


On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 2:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> But what about workers comp coverage?
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Friday, June 11, 2021 11:35 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Hiring guys off the street
>
> If they make less than $600 you don't have to file a 1099. I'd put it down
> as contract labor with a name. Just make sure you don't pay them more than
> $600. If you are getting the same guys over and over, then it's 1099 time.
>
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 11:30 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I think most of them are accustomed to a dont ask dont tell policy. Cash
>> pay at end of day.
>> I dont think its your responsibility to ensure receipt of a w2, you just
>> need a place to send it from a paper with their signature on it.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:48 AM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 1099?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 11:31 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How do you pick up a few guys by Home Depot and work them for a day
>>>> without running into problems with workers comp and the IRS?
>>>> Do you only hire the ones with papers?  No way to get a W2 to someone
>>>> that is homeless.  Or do you do it all under the table and post the expense
>>>> to some bogus item?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Hiring guys off the street

[Cameron Crum]

If they make less than $600 you don't have to file a 1099. I'd put it down
as contract labor with a name. Just make sure you don't pay them more than
$600. If you are getting the same guys over and over, then it's 1099 time.

On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 11:30 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I think most of them are accustomed to a dont ask dont tell policy. Cash
> pay at end of day.
> I dont think its your responsibility to ensure receipt of a w2, you just
> need a place to send it from a paper with their signature on it.
>
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:48 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> 1099?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 11:31 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How do you pick up a few guys by Home Depot and work them for a day
>>> without running into problems with workers comp and the IRS?
>>> Do you only hire the ones with papers?  No way to get a W2 to someone
>>> that is homeless.  Or do you do it all under the table and post the expense
>>> to some bogus item?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT cellular security cameras

[Cameron Crum]

You can buy sims from Twilio and with a $10/quota ( you pay $10 or thr
price of the bandwidth if higher) the rate is $0.02/MB. With a $50 quota
you get data at $0.0125/MB. It's $2/month on the sim so with a $10 quota
you pay a minimum of $12/month.
https://www.twilio.com/wireless/pricing


On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 3:53 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> No. Just a point of reference about how much storage a video can take. The
> dash cam uses a micro SD card and runs a continuous loop. If it detects an
> accident (High G event), it will take the current 3-minute segment and
> stash it in an "events" folder. If we encounter something while driving
> around (not a high G event), we will pull the card and extract any relevant
> videos. The dash cam records in 1080P, but does not compress the video
> (e.g. H264).
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 1:35 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Does your dash cam use your phone as a hotspot?
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Saturday, June 5, 2021 11:56 AM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT cellular security cameras
>>
>> Yah. Our dash cam eats about a GB every 10 minutes. That would put a 60
>> minute video at a tad over $2,000.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/5/2021 9:10 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > H, yep.   Probably ungood for cameras.  Didn’t really think about
>> it.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Jun 5, 2021, at 9:48 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 34 cents per MB is $340 per GB?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> bp
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >>> On 6/4/2021 8:37 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> >>> I don’t see that rate now.  34 cents per MB.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> > On Jun 4, 2021, at 9:32 PM, Chuck McCown via AF 
>> > wrote:
>> >> --
>> >> AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim

[Cameron Crum]

OR here https://www.imei.info/iccid


On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> You could also put the number in here
> http://phone.fyicenter.com/1155_ICCID_SIM_Card_Number_Decoder.html
>
> On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:27 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> The sim could really be registered with just about anyone. Just because
>> it has a logo doesn't mean much. For $6 you can get 3 Tmobile sims from
>> Twilio and create a plan under their IOT Programmable wireless. You can pay
>> as you go or buy in chunks.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:11 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Logo did not produce a match.
>>>
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 1:54 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim
>>>
>>> None of my common throwaway usernames and passwords logged in.
>>> I am taking a photo of the logo on the sim and will see if google image
>>> search can figure it out.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 1:51 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> Freedom Pop maybe?
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>>> www.Myakka.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Friday, June 4, 2021, 3:46:59 PM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have an AT hotspot.  It has some off brand sim card.  Free data if
>>> you keep it under some tiny amount.  Problem is, I don’t know who I got it
>>> from.  I want to log in and up the data but I have no clue.  Someone here
>>> recommended it a couple of years ago.
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim

[Cameron Crum]

You could also put the number in here
http://phone.fyicenter.com/1155_ICCID_SIM_Card_Number_Decoder.html

On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:27 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> The sim could really be registered with just about anyone. Just because it
> has a logo doesn't mean much. For $6 you can get 3 Tmobile sims from Twilio
> and create a plan under their IOT Programmable wireless. You can pay as you
> go or buy in chunks.
>
> Cameron
>
> On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:11 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Logo did not produce a match.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 1:54 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim
>>
>> None of my common throwaway usernames and passwords logged in.
>> I am taking a photo of the logo on the sim and will see if google image
>> search can figure it out.
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 1:51 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Freedom Pop maybe?
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> Friday, June 4, 2021, 3:46:59 PM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have an AT hotspot.  It has some off brand sim card.  Free data if
>> you keep it under some tiny amount.  Problem is, I don’t know who I got it
>> from.  I want to log in and up the data but I have no clue.  Someone here
>> recommended it a couple of years ago.
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim

[Cameron Crum]

The sim could really be registered with just about anyone. Just because it
has a logo doesn't mean much. For $6 you can get 3 Tmobile sims from Twilio
and create a plan under their IOT Programmable wireless. You can pay as you
go or buy in chunks.

Cameron

On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:11 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Logo did not produce a match.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 1:54 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim
>
> None of my common throwaway usernames and passwords logged in.
> I am taking a photo of the logo on the sim and will see if google image
> search can figure it out.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Friday, June 4, 2021 1:51 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT hotspot sim
>
> Chuck,
>
> Freedom Pop maybe?
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Friday, June 4, 2021, 3:46:59 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> I have an AT hotspot.  It has some off brand sim card.  Free data if you
> keep it under some tiny amount.  Problem is, I don’t know who I got it
> from.  I want to log in and up the data but I have no clue.  Someone here
> recommended it a couple of years ago.
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Quick Books

[Cameron Crum]

I'm about done with QB. They sent me a message about using QB Cash which
would allow my payments to not have any "transfer fees". It sounded good
and thought it might save me a few bucks every month. I just assumed the
money would still be going into my checking account. Big NO on that. They
actually set up an account that turns out to be Green Dot bank. They say
they are sending you a debit card. I only realized after I checked my
business account and it was 12k down from where I expected it to be. I went
to transfer my money out of this QB cash, but found that even though I had
set up my bank account in my merchant account, I now had to go through the
whole process again with QB cash. Of course they say that can take 3-5
business days, and then the actual transfer can take 3-5 business days
effectively making it two weeks before I could get access to my money. The
debit card never showed up and I have now requested a replacement 3 times.
A month later, still no debit card. I called Green Dot to initiate a wire
transfer and would even pay a fee for it, but they told me they don't do
that. I finally filed a complaint with the Federal Reserve against Green
Dot. I really thought it would go into the great void, like where socks go
in the dryer, but to my surprise, it worked. My money "magically" showed up
in my checking account the next day, and I got an email from both Green Dot
and the Fed following up. I'm guessing that most people don't know you can
file a complaint with the Fed, so when they get one, they get real excited
about having some real work to do. Anyway, I'd warn you to turn down the QB
Cash offer if you get it, unless you don't mind doing all your banking
through Green Dot bank.

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:42 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Intuit Corporate Headquarters
> 2632 Marine Way
> Mountain View, CA 94043
>
> Let me know when this seasons wildfires start
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:23 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> That seems like a good move.QB would have had to indicate which
>> Reason Code they used to add you to the MATCH list.   If that was done in
>> error, they should correct it.   I would guess an attorney could paint a
>> picture of financial injury that should get some response 
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 27, 2021 11:12 AM
>> *To:* Mike Hammett ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <
>> af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Cc:* David Coudron 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Quick Books
>>
>>
>>
>> I found a law firm online that specializes in this.  So going to get a
>> quote at a bare minimum.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 27, 2021 10:11 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; David Coudron
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Quick Books
>>
>>
>>
>> Fancy letter from a cheap attorney?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" 
>> *To: *"David Coudron" , "AnimalFarm
>> Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Cc: *"Chuck McCown" 
>> *Sent: *Thursday, May 27, 2021 11:05:24 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Quick Books
>>
>> QB tells us nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* David Coudron
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 27, 2021 10:04 AM
>>
>> *To:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Quick Books
>>
>>
>>
>> From what I read, it is not easy.You will automatically be removed
>> from the list in 5 years.   However, there are two ways to be removed
>> earlier, if QB contacts Mastercards and says the original add to the list
>> was in error, or if the reason you are on the list was that you weren’t
>> PCI-DSS compliant but can prove you have since become compliant. Here
>> is a pretty good article on it.   Read to the bottom for the how to remove
>> yourself from the list section:
>>
>> https://chargebacks911.com/match-list/
>>
>>
>>
>> By the way, they list the specific reasons you can be put on the list in
>> this article.   I think QB would owe you an explanation of why they
>> selected the reason code they did when adding you to the list.   It looks
>> to be very specific, they cannot cancel you just because they don’t like
>> you, or your business, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Sent:* 

Re: [AFMUG] Jaime, look

[Cameron Crum]

Wow!  There is a tamale lady that comes door to door through my
neighborhood and sells them for $7/dozen. Never knew I had it so good.



On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 9:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Just checking with a couple of buddies who regularly get tamales, and I
> think the lowest any of us has gotten them for is about $3/tamale.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 5/17/2021 1:28 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Some lady my neighbor works with. She was selling a dozen for 10 bucks but
> couldnt keep up so she raised it to 13. Around here a dozen real tamales
> goes for 18 to 20
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2021, 3:24 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Where are they from?
>>
>> On Mon, May 17, 2021, 12:44 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just look at this
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] EBB Enrollment

[Cameron Crum]

Guessing it will never die.

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 11:14 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> We are late to the game becoming a qualifying provider. At least the
> government is messing things up so we wont look as bad.
> I dont think anybody expected the feds to actively market this as hard as
> they are
> I dont understand the fed investment on a program that is set to die
> shortly. Unless of course there was never any intention for it to end with
> the pandemic. There is no way the government would not be forthright.
>
> On Sun, May 16, 2021, 2:42 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> We have five qualified but I haven't tried to enroll them yet.  I'll post
>> when I do...probably tomorrow
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] EBB Enrollment
>> Date: Sun, May 16, 2021 2:34 PM
>>
>> Has  anyone  had  any  luck  enrolling  customers  in  EBB?   I have 3
>> customers  that  I'm  trying  to enroll.  Al 3 say the went though the
>> process.  One of them sent me a screen shot saying they were accepted.
>> Every time I try to enroll them I get
>>
>>  "The  subscriber  has not qualified through the National Verifier yet
>>  or their application has expired. You can qualify them now at 
>> getemergencybroadband.org"
>>
>> The  odds  of  all  3 screwing up are low.  Just wondering if there is
>> something I'm missing.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Thanks,
>>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.www.Myakka.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing 
>> listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing

[Cameron Crum]

If it is the same wisp I'm thinking of, they "are not married" to BillMax,
but it is what they started with and they have in house developers
which makes having a billing only system with a decent API not such a bad
thing. You are going to spend your money one way or another when it comes
to your OSS systems. You are either going to pay per sub for an all
inclusive package, pay for each tool (and employees) you need individually,
or pay a developer to write your own. It all depends on your preference and
comfort level. All-in-one has all your info tied together, a nice plus. If
you have a bunch of employees who don't mind the double, triple, or
quadruple entry into  multiple systems, that's great, you're helping the
economy. If you have deep pockets and want a custom tailored solution, then
you get exactly what you are willing to pay for providing you have the
patience to wait for it and your dev doesn't get a better offer half way
through. There are trade-offs everywhere.

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 10:23 PM Daniel White  wrote:

> Visiting with a WISP that has way more than 20,000 subs last week, I was a
> bit surprised to hear they used Billmax and are very happy with it.
> Billmax probably doesn't get enough discussion in the community IMHO.
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>
> Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> May 6, 2021 at 16:14
> I'd also consider Billmax if you're looking for billing only.It's less
> expensive because it doesn't have all of the bells and whistles.
>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
>
>
> Chuck McCown via AF 
> May 6, 2021 at 15:40
> Pretty sure we are gonna give it a go with plat.  Worked fine for me years
> ago.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> Jesse DuPont 
> May 6, 2021 at 15:01
> We are current Plat customer (in one WISP, using Emerald in another -
> they're both quite capable). In the Plat WISP, we're billing 6400 subs
> using the free MSSQL license. No issues.
> On 5/6/21 10:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing

[Cameron Crum]

A good question for them. I don't know the answer.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 12:52 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> But if you never enter a CC card into plat, and the actual payment
> transaction is done by IPPay, why would plat store a card number.  I am not
> doing a recurring billing.  They have to pay manually each month, at least
> for now.
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 11:38 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>
> I wouldn't count on it. Most of the systems do this now (tokenize with the
> processor and just store a token and last 4 to show the customer) to take
> away your liability, but every instance of Plat I've seen has credit cards
> in the DB.
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 12:23 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I'd assume they're storing a token and not the actual card number.
>>
>>
>> On 5/6/2021 1:20 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> IIRC, once you entered a CC into the enterprise version of QB, the CC
>> number went under control of Intuit in their cloud. You could no longer
>> access it, except to update it to a new card, and then it "disappeared"
>> again.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 5/6/2021 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn’t want to store any credit cards.  People can click on the link
>> on the invoice and manually enter it each month.
>>
>> *From:* David Sovereen via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:56 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* David Sovereen
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>>
>> Platypus passes PCI compliance and stores credit card information in an
>> encrypted form when configured to do so.  If you have an old install where
>> your credit card information was not encrypted by default, you can encrypt
>> it by going to the Maintenance Menu and choosing Encryption Manager.
>>
>> *David Sovereen*
>>
>> Mercury Network Corporation
>> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
>> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax
>>
>> Telephone*  |  *Internet*  |  *Hosting
>>
>> david.sover...@mercury.net
>> www.mercury.net
>>
>>
>> On May 6, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>>
>> I'd be careful of Plat if you want PCI compliance. In the systems I've
>> seen even within the last few months, they are still storing credit cards
>> in plain text in the DB.
>>
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Do I have to host Plat?
>>>
>>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:05 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>>>
>>>
>>> I think Platypus is still free up to a certain number of active
>>> customers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 8:56 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have exhausted all of our appeals, the only thing they will tell us
>>> is that they don’t approve of our “products”.  AKA internet service and
>>> that they are happy for us to be a QB customer...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, gonna get a stand alone billing system and just do a monthly journal
>>> entry to move over the revenue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Something cheap with the ability for the customer to pay with cards.
>>> Anything free out there that makes their money from the merchant
>>> percentage?  I guess I don’t care if it is free, just the lowest overall
>>> cost to the company.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Was platypus free?  Used it for years at another company.  I don’t need
>>> any management of my network just simple recurring billing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing

[Cameron Crum]

I wouldn't count on it. Most of the systems do this now (tokenize with the
processor and just store a token and last 4 to show the customer) to take
away your liability, but every instance of Plat I've seen has credit cards
in the DB.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 12:23 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'd assume they're storing a token and not the actual card number.
>
>
> On 5/6/2021 1:20 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> IIRC, once you entered a CC into the enterprise version of QB, the CC
> number went under control of Intuit in their cloud. You could no longer
> access it, except to update it to a new card, and then it "disappeared"
> again.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 5/6/2021 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I wouldn’t want to store any credit cards.  People can click on the link
> on the invoice and manually enter it each month.
>
> *From:* David Sovereen via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* David Sovereen
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>
> Platypus passes PCI compliance and stores credit card information in an
> encrypted form when configured to do so.  If you have an old install where
> your credit card information was not encrypted by default, you can encrypt
> it by going to the Maintenance Menu and choosing Encryption Manager.
>
> *David Sovereen*
>
> Mercury Network Corporation
> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax
>
> Telephone*  |  *Internet*  |  *Hosting
>
> david.sover...@mercury.net
> www.mercury.net
>
>
> On May 6, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> I'd be careful of Plat if you want PCI compliance. In the systems I've
> seen even within the last few months, they are still storing credit cards
> in plain text in the DB.
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Do I have to host Plat?
>>
>> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:05 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>>
>>
>> I think Platypus is still free up to a certain number of active customers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 8:56 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>>
>>
>>
>> We have exhausted all of our appeals, the only thing they will tell us is
>> that they don’t approve of our “products”.  AKA internet service and that
>> they are happy for us to be a QB customer...
>>
>>
>>
>> So, gonna get a stand alone billing system and just do a monthly journal
>> entry to move over the revenue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Something cheap with the ability for the customer to pay with cards.
>> Anything free out there that makes their money from the merchant
>> percentage?  I guess I don’t care if it is free, just the lowest overall
>> cost to the company.
>>
>>
>>
>> Was platypus free?  Used it for years at another company.  I don’t need
>> any management of my network just simple recurring billing.
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing

[Cameron Crum]

I'd be careful of Plat if you want PCI compliance. In the systems I've seen
even within the last few months, they are still storing credit cards in
plain text in the DB.

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 10:40 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Do I have to host Plat?
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:05 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>
>
> I think Platypus is still free up to a certain number of active customers.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 8:56 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing
>
>
>
> We have exhausted all of our appeals, the only thing they will tell us is
> that they don’t approve of our “products”.  AKA internet service and that
> they are happy for us to be a QB customer...
>
>
>
> So, gonna get a stand alone billing system and just do a monthly journal
> entry to move over the revenue.
>
>
>
> Something cheap with the ability for the customer to pay with cards.
> Anything free out there that makes their money from the merchant
> percentage?  I guess I don’t care if it is free, just the lowest overall
> cost to the company.
>
>
>
> Was platypus free?  Used it for years at another company.  I don’t need
> any management of my network just simple recurring billing.
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] intuit

[Cameron Crum]

To answer the question about QB sync, I know Visp does. You can create
account codes which can be grouped and exported to QB.

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 9:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Thanks
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 30, 2021, at 6:31 AM, David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Chuck,
>
>
>
> Do you use Quickbooks Online, or the desktop installed version.   Either
> one can be hooked to Authorize.net, but the online version is much
> easier.   Once you get to Authorize.net, you can use almost any credit card
> fulfillment company.We would strongly recommend talking to your bank to
> see who they might sell/resell.   Over time we moved our all in percentage
> from north of 4% to less than 3%.   I think we are sitting at 2.8% with all
> monthly fees and charges as well as the per transaction charges included.
> It is kind of a pain to switch, but if you go to your bank, someone will
> actually talk to you and work with you.   Even if you don’t switch to your
> bank for processing, once you are on Authorize.net, you can use just about
> any processor, so you can pick the one you like.   From when we looked at
> Quickbooks credit card processing a few years back, by the time you added
> in transaction fees and monthly fees, it was almost 5%.   You really have
> to watch the transaction rate and the fees on the different credit card
> types   Most processors advertise a low rate per transaction, but when
> customers use rewards cards, the fees are lots higher.   Use a processor
> that charges a flat rate for all cards if you can find one.   Once we did
> that, our average transaction percentage went way down.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, April 30, 2021 4:42 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
>
>
> We use QB for accounting.  It generates and sends invoices automatically.
> No extra charge.  I am going to continue to use QB.  So adding a Sonar or
> Powercode will add expense and work.  Do they automatically interface with
> QB?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2021, at 12:22 AM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Sonar, Visp, Powercode ARE CHEAP. They're cheaper than the manual labor to
> do what they do automatically.
>
>
>
> We use Payment Depot for processing and they include Authorize.net
> gateway. Our average card rate for all credit/debit is 2.3% through them.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 4:31 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> Why would they NOT want that?  Don't they get a % on your transactions?
>
> I should think they'd want you to be their best frickin friend.
>
>
>
> On 4/29/2021 5:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> My wife got a live person on the phone at intuit.  They told her the
> problem, that we were going to do auto billing for $25K/month.  We are not
> doing any autobilling.  She has hope it is fixable.  I don’t have any hope
> but it will be a nice surprise if they do make it right.  Normally I have
> more tenacity than she does with this kind of stuff.
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:21 PM
>
> *To:* Mike Hammett ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
>
>
> Did I mention I was cheap?
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 29, 2021 2:26 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
>
>
> Sonar, PowerCode, VISP, etc.
>
>
>
> IP Pay, Pro Pay, etc.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Chuck McCown via AF"  
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc: *ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:25:18 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
> I tried that, we are screwed.  They pulled up the drawbridge and said to
> go screw ourselves.
>
> So I need another customer billing platform.  And I am super cheap.  Any
> suggestions?
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 29, 2021 2:19 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
>
>
> When we switched to Enterprise, there was some kind of SNAFU with us being
> an "ISP". Bad juju in their opinion. I forget how we resolved it, but I
> think I recall us changing to some different classification.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 4/29/2021 12:44 PM, Chuck 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: penny stocks

[Cameron Crum]

Yes the banks like to have your money on hand so they can use it to make
money for themselves. Those subscriptions to Chortle Quarterly, and the
mega-yachts they ride around on don't come cheap and certainly not with
their own money. Also, it's getting harder and harder to find a good
monocle maker these days.



On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 9:58 PM Robert  wrote:

> Trading can be worse than Gambling...   If you are really good at
> gambling...
> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sports-bettor-billy-walters-winning-streak-13-01-2011/4/
>
>
> On 4/12/21 1:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> So if you dont trade on margin, you still have to have a margin account
> with 25000? The more im learning and reading the more I understand why
> certain people believe there needs to be more regulation. The crazy amount
> of risk, aside from just putting your money up, margin, short sale, etc. I
> dont have any interest in doing much of that, in regular life I try to be a
> cash guy (though economy and paycheck doesnt allow that) but I wouldnt ever
> consider taking a load out to go to the casino.
>
> I see the risk aversion, I switched my paper account balance to the actual
> amount id be willing to risk, and suddenly I wasnt as adventuresome, I
> assume that would amplify when actual money goes in. I dont mind my risk on
> the limited long term stocks, I think theyll perform well, Smith and Wesson
> in particular.
>
> I have my paper account sitting at -1900 for the day with pending sells
> for tomorrow that I think will hit the expectations at 9 tomorrow. Is that
> considered day trading since part of the cash was from a purchase and sell
> today?
>
> this webull place says i can day trade with 100 dollars, so if i was to
> toy with that, its just math to extrapolate to real gains or losses? Im
> just finding it hard to believe theres a way to get better than casino
> winnings without committing a crime
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 2:55 PM Tyson Burris  wrote:
>
>> Steve-
>>
>>
>>
>> I didn’t read the whole email chain so I maybe blowing smoke here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Margin is borrowed money based on a set value of a security.  You cannot
>> Margin trade most penny stocks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Margin trading is high risk / high reward.  You MUST be careful.  A stock
>> that is traded on Margin and rapidly decreases its value you can cause you
>> to be in Margin CALL or even owe the broker if not careful.  Buying Power
>> tends to be Margin.
>>
>>
>>
>> According to SEC regulations, a day trader is one who trades / flips five
>> or more times in a trading period. If you are flagged as a day trader you
>> must maintain 25K or more.  Holding a security overnight and not bouncing
>> in and out of it prevents this from happening.  I believe if your account
>> is flagged, you can wait 60-90 days and request the flag be removed.
>> (assuming you don’t day trade anymore)
>>
>>
>>
>> Those who don’t hold a stock for a year or longer will pay a much, much
>> larger capital gains tax  then those who do.  Short vs. Long term.
>>
>>
>>
>> Examples of pros and cons…
>>
>> I took a 30K+ loss many years ago when earnings came out and the stock
>> tanked.  I had the stock purchased on Margin.  Had I not, the loss would
>> have been so much less.  I was forced into a Margin call and had to take
>> the large LOSS.  This is an example of Margin trading that caused a large
>> loss.
>>
>>
>>
>> During Covid, I invested with Margin into a stock I knew would do well.
>> At the peak, 3 million was made.  So this became a perfect case in which
>> Margin trading worked really to my benefit.  I had to hold this stock for a
>> year or longer to reduce the capital gain tax.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
>> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>> *prohibited.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 12, 2021 1:02 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: penny stocks
>>
>>
>>
>> I just dont get it
>>
>> I reset my account to specific cash amount. I dont understand buying
>> power, seems like credit.
>>
>> The one im toying with is RGBP, if someone can look and tell me what
>> thinkorswim is letting me do that the real world wouldnt allow
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 11:47 AM Carl Peterson <
>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> It is also 

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Cameron Crum]

BTW, the gaylord is not in Dallas county. It is in the far better Tarrant
county.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> So, what does a subscriber to her channel get?  Does she sing or get naked
> or what?
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:59 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
>
> So,anybody see the cashmeoutside girl made a million bucks on onlyfans
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 9:44 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> I agree the 2 and 3 mask clown show is just that.. a clown show.. I'm
>> not sure why we are doing that.
>>
>> On 4/6/21 10:29 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>> > By all means take any precaution you wish.  People at risk should.  But
>> > don't impose your beliefs on others.  If you see a non mask wearer -
>> > stay away from them.  Go ahead and live your life in fear.  The way
>> > things are going right now, this will never end.   We tried your way,
>> it
>> > didn't work, it didn't even make a dent on the numbers.  In fact it
>> > bought the virus time to mutate and make things worse.
>> >
>> > First they said masks wouldn't work, you'd need a bare minimum of a N95
>> > so don't bother.  Then they said wear the mask,  now you need to wear
>> > 3.   This is a clown show.  It is time to try a different way.   The
>> > quickest way to immunity and return to normal life.   If you do
>> anything
>> > that prolongs that from happening you are clearly advocating for big
>> > pharma and the medical community to now be our new governing body.
>> >
>> > 
>> > *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> > *To: *"af" 
>> > *Sent: *Tuesday, April 6, 2021 9:59:42 AM
>> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?
>> >
>> > The best cheese is that that is handed down to you
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 7:53 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > And this is the issue I have with us humans... selfish.
>> >
>> > It's a year... maybe a year and a half.
>> >
>> > You're telling me you can't avoid going out to bars, out to eat,
>> out in
>> > large gatherings for a year and a half to help keep others from
>> getting
>> > infected?
>> >
>> > I'd argue there is a lot of evidence that masks and lock downs have
>> > helped -- how can you spread if you aren't out seeing people?
>> >
>> > The issue comes because people say " yah... I'm at home don't
>> cha
>> > know" but they were out to dinner with a friend who was passing
>> through
>> > who they haven't seen in years and they went to church and sat next
>> to
>> > someone not in their immediate family.
>> >
>> > Do masks work?
>> >
>> > You tell me  I was talking 4  feet from my SIL who somehow got
>> > COVID
>> > and so far I have no symptoms.  This was 3 days before she shows
>> > symptoms, so surely contagious by that point from what we know.
>> >
>> > We were both wearing masks.
>> >
>> > The cool thing about America is we can all do our own thing as long
>> as
>> > it doesn't harm others.
>> >
>> > I'll wear a mask and stay away from large gatherings until I think
>> the
>> > numbers show it's safe to do otherwise -- and you can run
>> gangbusters
>> > into the contagion.   We're adults and can make decisions for
>> > ourselves.
>> >Just don't come see me after you've done that, please.
>> >
>> > On 4/6/21 8:31 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>> >  > Take that percentage into consideration the amount of people who
>> >  > actually get it that die or have some lingering issues.  Not to
>> > mention
>> >  > there is little to no evidence or statistics that the masks or
>> the
>> >  > lockdowns have prevented or even hindered the spread.   It
>> > certainly has
>> >  > eliminated the regular flu and all other similar ailments!
>> >  >
>> >  > This is a situation  I think that we'll need to rip the bandaid
>> > off and
>> >  > go on with our lives.  Those who are at high risk should take
>> >  > precautions.  The quicker we develop this immunity as a human
>> > race,  the
>> >  > better off we are in the long run.
>> >  >
>> >  > People here and relatives I've talked to all across North America
>> > are
>> >  > all fed up and had enough of this nonsense.  It is only a matter
>> > of time
>> >  > before people stop abiding and it will take some serious
>> orwellian
>> >  > jackboots to get people to "conform".   The kool aid is running
>> > out and
>> >  > we'll start to see more and more states start going the way of
>> Texas.
>> >  >
>> >  > Disclaimer:  It is a nasty and deadly cold and people should take
>> >  > precautions to protect themselves.
>> >  >
>> >  >
>> >
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Who is going to WISPAMERICA?

[Cameron Crum]

Better bring a fat wallet

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 5:56 PM Caleb Knauer 
wrote:

> I'm buying shots for every time someone says "uncertain/unprecedented
> times".
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 4:01 PM Sam Lambie  wrote:
> >
> > Just wondering if during these unprecedented times if there will be a
> crowd or a ghost town in Grapevine TX.
> > I've been to the LV WISPaPalooza shows a couple of times, is this any
> more informative and better organized or??
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Sam Lambie
> > Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> > 575-758-7598 Office
> > www.Taosnet.com
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti played fast and loose with the truth?

[Cameron Crum]

We are shocked. SHOCKED I say!

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 1:18 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> I guess I should have not just put in a link without commenting...
>
> So:
>
> Why am I surprised?
>
> On 03/30/2021 11:15 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> >
> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/03/whistleblower-ubiquiti-breach-catastrophic/
> >
> >
>
> --
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