Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Josh Luthman]

Bash it is!

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 5:43 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I think the simple email alert is what we are looking for..  No NMS
> needed.
>
>
>
> *From:* castarritt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 3:33 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
> We've done stuff as ghetto as powering an old wrt54g through the alarm
> contacts and monitoring its IP address to see when it comes up and goes
> down.  These days all of our sites have either an Alpha or ICT UPS or DC
> shelf that has alarm monitoring inputs.
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 4:30 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> As long as you support SMTP AUTH, I think that should be sufficient.  If
>> necessary, someone could always create a Gmail account for this purpose.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, there are some older devices that expect you to set them up as an
>> MTA rather than MUA so they can send unauthenticated SMTP on port 25.  That
>> sounds like a really bad plan to me unless you time travel back to maybe
>> 1999.  I don’t want to be creating SPF and DKIM and DMARC records for a
>> little contact monitoring box, and it sounds like a security nightmare.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
>> (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 4:13 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>>
>>
>>
>> Some devices can be configured to send an email if a contact closes, but
>> the way this happens varies between devices.
>>
>>
>>
>> My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has
>> traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when
>> to send the email.  I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on.   This is
>> obviously easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage.   Plus
>> you need additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and
>> 24.1 and you have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every
>> time it flaps to 24.0.All of this was impossible to do on the older
>> hardware just because of code space limitations.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the firmware has not yet
>> been completed.  There is a rules engine about 3/4 built for the
>> sitemonitor system, how long until it sees the light of day, I don't know
>> at this point.   The email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to
>> provide some sort of email server resources for those who don't have an
>> email system which will accept email from random devices.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:55 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring system.
>>
>> Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that
>> an SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls
>> every 1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by
>> email or text message.
>>
>> I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or current, then set
>> trip points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like UPS input
>> voltage at the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V for
>> more than 2 minutes.
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: "Chuck McCown via AF"
>> Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PM
>> To: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
>> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>>
>> So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue?  Traps?
>>
>>
>>
>> \Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>>
>>
>>
>> Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and
>> temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures
>> you add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment
>> alarm contacts.  Circuit breaker alarms.  That is why historically I liked
>> the netguardian product.  It eats everything.  Monitors DC voltages etc.
>> Temps
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>>
>>
>>
>> I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might
>> be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.
>>
>> However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is
>> nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others).
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>> On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in
>> one of our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what Forrest
>> has.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern
>> stuff out 

Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Josh Luthman]

What does the alarm contact offer?  Just SNMP?  If so, you need to figure
out if the alarm contact is going to be changing the OID or not.  Some
software works better in this situation.

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 3:09 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> We have nothing at the moment.  So before I purchased a netguardian I
> though I would ping the borg to see if there is a cheaper or simpler
> system.
>
> We recently discovered that we had a rectifier fault and an inverter fault
> so our system goes down during a power failure while waiting for the
> generator to start.  I decided that we should probably monitor alarms.
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 12:47 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
> What's the use case? Do you have an existing snmp system? Sometimes a box
> with built in email client is less of a hassle, I'm sure there are cloud
> solutions as well.
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 11:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in
>> one of our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what Forrest
>> has.
>>
>> Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern
>> stuff out there we should be looking at?
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia

[Josh Luthman]

Fire stations here are failing.  They can't staff them.  Townships can't
fund them so they're paying cities much higher rates per call.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 7:01 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Everything’s political now, of course.
>
>
>
> But he does have a point when he says “Government-owned broadband networks
> cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services
> that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads,
> water and sewer.”
>
>
>
> In the past, the government has undertaken vast programs at taxpayer
> expense like rural electrification, the interstate highway system, the
> space program.  Now apparently high speed Internet is the thing of the
> moment that takes precedence over all the other broken things that we might
> wish government to fix.  I sometimes wonder why Internet?  Maybe because it
> seems easy and gives people the power to hand out billions of dollars.
> Could they cure cancer or get lead out of drinking water or fix all the
> deteriorating bridges with something like a BEAD program?
>
>
>
> Maybe they think broadband and AI and neural implants will lead to a
> future where everyone is plugged into the network and doesn’t need any of
> those other things.  Maybe we’ll all be heads in jars like in Futurama.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2024 5:38 PM
> *To:* Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave
> Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com; John Brewer 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>
>
>
> I am surprised they have never broke even.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2024 4:02 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>
>
>
> Article:
> https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> By John Dougall
>
> For the Deseret News
>
> Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential
> government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed
> by
> the private sector.
>
> Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments
> are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous
> private-sector providers being available.
>
> The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and
> taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned
> broadband
> networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from
> services that really matter to the public — services such as police and
> fire, roads, water and sewer.
>
> Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right here
> in Utah are iProvo and UTOPIA.
>
> In 2004, Provo launched iProvo to provide broadband internet services to
> homes and business. Provo reportedly bonded for $36.5 million to bring
> service to every home in the city and wrote off $5.4 million that the
> city’s
> telecommunications fund owed the Energy Department’s reserve fund to
> finance
> the costly deployment. After struggling to make the network viable, iProvo
> was sold in 2008. But its buyer failed to fulfill the terms of the sale,
> and
> iProvo reverted back to the city. In 2013, in a desperate attempt to free
> itself of the failed venture, the city ultimately sold iProvo to Google
> for
> $1.
>
> Similarly, UTOPIA (Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency) was
> launched to provide broadband internet services to a consortium of cities.
> But UTOPIA has failed to fulfill its promises for more than two decades
> now.
> The project, which started in 2002, was projected to be finished in three
> to
> four years. Fast forward to today, and it is still incomplete. Not only is
> UTOPIA incomplete, but the project has racked up $300 million worth of
> debt.
> And despite iProvo’s example of failure, UTOPIA continues to expand.
>
> For years, UTOPIA consistently lost money, expecting taxpayers to cover
> those losses. In addition to this, the government-owned network continues
> to
> expand and pull other cities into this trap. What’s more egregious is that
> UTOPIA misrepresented its performance as it pitched cities on buying into
> the expansion fever. For example, UTOPIA once claimed the network had “no
> cost to taxpayers since 2009.” This statement was patently inaccurate.
>
> As your watchdog, I help you to hold your government accountable. My
> office
> investigat

Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia

[Josh Luthman]

You're surprised the government doesn't waste?  What did you do with Chuck?

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 6:38 PM  wrote:

> I am surprised they have never broke even.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2024 4:02 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>
> Article:
> https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> By John Dougall
>>
>> For the Deseret News
>>
>> Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential
>> government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed
>> by
>> the private sector.
>>
>> Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments
>> are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous
>> private-sector providers being available.
>>
>> The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and
>> taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned
>> broadband
>> networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from
>> services that really matter to the public — services such as police and
>> fire, roads, water and sewer.
>>
>> Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right
>> here
>> in Utah are iProvo and UTOPIA.
>>
>> In 2004, Provo launched iProvo to provide broadband internet services to
>> homes and business. Provo reportedly bonded for $36.5 million to bring
>> service to every home in the city and wrote off $5.4 million that the
>> city’s
>> telecommunications fund owed the Energy Department’s reserve fund to
>> finance
>> the costly deployment. After struggling to make the network viable,
>> iProvo
>> was sold in 2008. But its buyer failed to fulfill the terms of the sale,
>> and
>> iProvo reverted back to the city. In 2013, in a desperate attempt to free
>> itself of the failed venture, the city ultimately sold iProvo to Google
>> for
>> $1.
>>
>> Similarly, UTOPIA (Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency)
>> was
>> launched to provide broadband internet services to a consortium of
>> cities.
>> But UTOPIA has failed to fulfill its promises for more than two decades
>> now.
>> The project, which started in 2002, was projected to be finished in three
>> to
>> four years. Fast forward to today, and it is still incomplete. Not only
>> is
>> UTOPIA incomplete, but the project has racked up $300 million worth of
>> debt.
>> And despite iProvo’s example of failure, UTOPIA continues to expand.
>>
>> For years, UTOPIA consistently lost money, expecting taxpayers to cover
>> those losses. In addition to this, the government-owned network continues
>> to
>> expand and pull other cities into this trap. What’s more egregious is
>> that
>> UTOPIA misrepresented its performance as it pitched cities on buying into
>> the expansion fever. For example, UTOPIA once claimed the network had “no
>> cost to taxpayers since 2009.” This statement was patently inaccurate.
>>
>> As your watchdog, I help you to hold your government accountable. My
>> office
>> investigated this and other claims, then we wrote a letter identifying
>> these
>> inaccurate statements. We instructed UTOPIA to do the following:
>>
>> •Discard or destroy marketing materials with misleading statements.
>>
>> • Ensure future communications more accurately reflect the dependence on
>> taxpayer support.
>>
>> •Take steps to remedy the misrepresentations regarding the lack of
>> taxpayer
>> support to any individual or entity that received the inaccurate
>> information.
>>
>> UTOPIA’s shortcomings do not stop there, however. Rather than providing
>> internet access to the more than 40,000 homes and small businesses that
>> lack
>> internet access today, UTOPIA, like other government-owned networks,
>> builds
>> redundant networks that compete with existing private providers, many who
>> are also regulated by the cities in which they operate.
>>
>> Unfortunately, iProvo and UTOPIA are no different from other
>> government-owned fiber networks across the country, which fail
>> financially
>> about 90% of the time.
>>
>> When taxpayer money is being diverted from critical services into pet
>> broadband projects, that money is not going where it is ne

Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia

[Josh Luthman]

Article:
https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> By John Dougall
>
> For the Deseret News
>
> Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential
> government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed
> by
> the private sector.
>
> Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments
> are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous
> private-sector providers being available.
>
> The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and
> taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned
> broadband
> networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from
> services that really matter to the public — services such as police and
> fire, roads, water and sewer.
>
> Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right here
> in Utah are iProvo and UTOPIA.
>
> In 2004, Provo launched iProvo to provide broadband internet services to
> homes and business. Provo reportedly bonded for $36.5 million to bring
> service to every home in the city and wrote off $5.4 million that the
> city’s
> telecommunications fund owed the Energy Department’s reserve fund to
> finance
> the costly deployment. After struggling to make the network viable, iProvo
> was sold in 2008. But its buyer failed to fulfill the terms of the sale,
> and
> iProvo reverted back to the city. In 2013, in a desperate attempt to free
> itself of the failed venture, the city ultimately sold iProvo to Google
> for
> $1.
>
> Similarly, UTOPIA (Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency) was
> launched to provide broadband internet services to a consortium of cities.
> But UTOPIA has failed to fulfill its promises for more than two decades
> now.
> The project, which started in 2002, was projected to be finished in three
> to
> four years. Fast forward to today, and it is still incomplete. Not only is
> UTOPIA incomplete, but the project has racked up $300 million worth of
> debt.
> And despite iProvo’s example of failure, UTOPIA continues to expand.
>
> For years, UTOPIA consistently lost money, expecting taxpayers to cover
> those losses. In addition to this, the government-owned network continues
> to
> expand and pull other cities into this trap. What’s more egregious is that
> UTOPIA misrepresented its performance as it pitched cities on buying into
> the expansion fever. For example, UTOPIA once claimed the network had “no
> cost to taxpayers since 2009.” This statement was patently inaccurate.
>
> As your watchdog, I help you to hold your government accountable. My
> office
> investigated this and other claims, then we wrote a letter identifying
> these
> inaccurate statements. We instructed UTOPIA to do the following:
>
> •Discard or destroy marketing materials with misleading statements.
>
> • Ensure future communications more accurately reflect the dependence on
> taxpayer support.
>
> •Take steps to remedy the misrepresentations regarding the lack of
> taxpayer
> support to any individual or entity that received the inaccurate
> information.
>
> UTOPIA’s shortcomings do not stop there, however. Rather than providing
> internet access to the more than 40,000 homes and small businesses that
> lack
> internet access today, UTOPIA, like other government-owned networks,
> builds
> redundant networks that compete with existing private providers, many who
> are also regulated by the cities in which they operate.
>
> Unfortunately, iProvo and UTOPIA are no different from other
> government-owned fiber networks across the country, which fail financially
> about 90% of the time.
>
> When taxpayer money is being diverted from critical services into pet
> broadband projects, that money is not going where it is needed most.
> Taxpayers expect government to maintain roads, provide safe drinking water
> and keep their communities safe. Money spent propping up broadband
> services
> costs taxpayers money, encumbered by decades of debt, and deprives them of
> important and sufficient government services they want and deserve. Plus,
> higher taxes burden families, many of whom are struggling today just to
> provide for themselves.
>
> Government-owned broadband has done enough harm to taxpayers. iProvo and
> UTOPIA should be seen as an example for policymakers of what to avoid.
> Public officials across the country, and especially here in Utah, should
> resist the appealing allure of expanding or deploying government-owned
> networks, which allure has been shown to be deceptive, and ultimately
> destructive, to taxpayers.
>
> John Dougall is the Utah State Auditor and is a candidate for Utah’s 3rd
> congressional district.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Josh Luthman]

AC powered site?  GTFO.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 2:49 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I have a bunch of various meanwell 48 vDC power supplies mostly  120 and
> 350 watt models with most loads being 45wattish and some 108wattish.
>
> One site im re-cabling has 1100w in PSUs taking a ton of space providing
> for a total demand of around 440w. Seems overkill and only accounts for the
> DC direct powered stuff, not the other 300w or so
>
> Whats the consensus on an AC powered site? individual PSUs for ever
> equipment. Big PSU/rectifier for all?
> Our battery capacity at this particular site is on the APC at the base
> providing just AC to the top, we are not bringing the batteries up for
> reasons and all electronics are up top.
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber: Radisys

[Josh Luthman]

Jeff has some pretty good deals on Adtran stuff.

Not sure what the Radisys product is but talk to Jeff about the
fiber/Adtran gear.

On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 1:48 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I've been trying to get a quote from Adtran for months with no luck. These
> guys recently came to my attention. The product and pricing looks
> reasonable, has anyone used their gear? --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

[Josh Luthman]

This?  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0205873/

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 1:06 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> “The Dish”
>
> Great factual comedy that blends Apollo 11 and antennas.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 21, 2024 10:24 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna
>
>
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2
>
> --
> --
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>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Friday Funny

[Josh Luthman]

My internet is down.

Do you have power?

IDK

FML

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:57 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Customer's equipment at a farm went down last evening.  Sent the Mom
> from across the driveway over this morning to check power. She found
> basement was damp and a GCFI was tripped.  Reported back later "Found
> out toddler had overflowed the tub last night"
>
> Always exciting when a definitive cause is found.
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Peering vs transit

[Josh Luthman]

I'm at ~500 mbps of Google traffic and the website specifically tells me I
have sufficient traffic.  I put in a ticket and I guess we'll see what
happens!

Did isp.google.com tell you that you were too big?

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 11:12 AM Zach Underwood 
wrote:

> That is the part that we tried for a long time. We shared two IXs with
> google, and we asked google for BGP sessions over both IXs and was told
> over and over that we were too big for IX. That left us with only two
> options, all google over transit links or pay for cross connects between us
> and Google. It is worth noting that google requires dual PNI in all shared
> metros. They pay for the first cross connect and provide the IPs but the
> 2nd one is on you.
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 11:02 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> From what I'm seeing at isp.google.com to peer you just give them a BGP
>> peer session.  Is that it?
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 10:29 AM Zach Underwood 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is some data for the people that talk about just getting fat
>>> transit pipes and skip peering.
>>>
>>> This is from Google's point of view of our network. Yesterday we moved
>>> our google traffic from transit (GTT) to PNI.
>>>
>>> Goodput up 20%.
>>> retransmit rates dropped in half
>>> Application RTT dropped in half.
>>>
>>> We started down this route since about 3 weeks google de-peered us on
>>> two different IX RS. For a long time we have asked google for bgp sessions
>>> over the IX and was told with 5gbps peak traffic we were too large for IX.
>>> After the deeper we started the process to get the dual PNIs.
>>>  [image: image.png]
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>>> My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
>>> advance-networking.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
> advance-networking.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Peering vs transit

[Josh Luthman]

>From what I'm seeing at isp.google.com to peer you just give them a BGP
peer session.  Is that it?

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 10:29 AM Zach Underwood 
wrote:

> Here is some data for the people that talk about just getting fat
> transit pipes and skip peering.
>
> This is from Google's point of view of our network. Yesterday we moved our
> google traffic from transit (GTT) to PNI.
>
> Goodput up 20%.
> retransmit rates dropped in half
> Application RTT dropped in half.
>
> We started down this route since about 3 weeks google de-peered us on two
> different IX RS. For a long time we have asked google for bgp sessions over
> the IX and was told with 5gbps peak traffic we were too large for IX. After
> the deeper we started the process to get the dual PNIs.
>  [image: image.png]
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Crown Castle Tower Experience

[Josh Luthman]

We have a contract for vertical space on a Crown Castle tower.  5 year.
WUW?

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 4:11 PM Paul McCall via AF  wrote:

> I am looking to talk to some WISPs privately that have had long-term Crown
> Castle (ex Global Signal, ex Pinnacle towers) contracts.
>
>
>
> We have a legal concern and I want to get some confidential input from
> guys that worked with them long term.
>
>
>
> Feel free to contact me privately if you can chat.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] UniFi AP 5ghz dies

[Josh Luthman]

Ubnt hardware failures?  Never.

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 11:49 AM  wrote:

> Do you guys commonly see UniFi APs stop transmitting on the 5ghz side?  I
> feel like I’m seeing it all the time.
>
> A reboot doesn’t always get it back, but a factory reset does.
>
>
>
> It’s annoying as heck because there are no alarms or anything.  You find
> out when someone reports poor performance and you see the 5ghz side has no
> clients on it.
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

[Josh Luthman]

It's not about logic or feasibility, it's about the government needing to
feel important.  Bureaucracy on autopilot.

I had the FBI office call me asking about an IP and they simply didn't
understand NAT or SSL.

On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 5:50 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I see CALEA as a holdover from those days when most of the traffic on the
> internet was unecrypted.  Law enforcement wanted to be able to wiretap the
> internet just like they could wiretap POTS.
>
> Nowadays,  I'm not sure what law enforcement could actually do with the
> captured data.   What an isp has access to is largely encrypted over the
> wire.   I guess some data might be useful but I'm guessing that law
> enforcement has learned that looking at a capture of customer data isn't as
> useful as they thought it would be.
>
> About the only thing I can think of right this second which might be at
> least frequently unencrypted anymore is VoIP and/or DNS depending on your
> configuration.   But if I was carrying on criminal activities across the
> net I'd probably be looking at ways to encrypt everything which isn't hard
> to do.
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 4:17 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
>> While CALEA is still on the books it doesn’t seem to be of much interest
>> to LEA.
>>
>> No - you do not have to be able to identify the user.  If LEA can
>> identify a specific end user for you out of the WiFi, then yes, they could
>> ask for you to monitor it but keep in mind that CALEA isn’t meant for
>> historical data.   It’s meant to be real-time capture once they have
>> identified a particular person of interest (well, a specific phone number,
>> IP address, etc.).
>>
>> Every year I get a phone call from the FBI verifying our contact
>> information and how to get hold of us if they need something.  I point out
>> that we file our CALEA documents and ask why they are calling - and they
>> say ‘oh, we don’t use that’.   Uh,  got it.   But the FCC still thinks it’s
>> important and you best follow the rules and file it anyway.  Local and
>> State LEA has never heard of CALEA.   It’s just one more bureaucracy on
>> autopilot that has outlived it’s usefulness.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> On Mar 18, 2024, at 6:29 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> CALEA hasn’t been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but
>> it’s one I don’t know much about.
>>
>> If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance?  We
>> have parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi.  There are
>> also MDU’s with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc.
>>
>> My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you’re
>> ordered to do so.  Do you also have to be able to identify the individual?
>>
>> If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi….sure no
>> problem.  If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted
>> me to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be
>> able to tell them it was someone at the park.  At *best* I could give
>> them a MAC address and hostname.  If I have to identify the *customer*
>> that’s easy: the municipal parks department, but I’m guessing that’s not
>> what they will want to know.
>>
>> Will this stuff get us in trouble?
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

[Josh Luthman]

Definitely includes internet service.  You need to be able to capture the
customer's traffic without changing the network.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2024 at 12:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> I was under the impression that CALEA was for telephone call intercepts?
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2024 4:29 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi
>
>
> CALEA hasn’t been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but
> it’s one I don’t know much about.
>
>
>
> If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance?  We
> have parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi.  There are
> also MDU’s with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc.
>
>
>
> My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you’re
> ordered to do so.  Do you also have to be able to identify the individual?
>
>
>
> If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi….sure no
> problem.  If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted
> me to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be
> able to tell them it was someone at the park.  At *best* I could give
> them a MAC address and hostname.  If I have to identify the *customer*
> that’s easy: the municipal parks department, but I’m guessing that’s not
> what they will want to know.
>
>
>
> Will this stuff get us in trouble?
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] PON question

[Josh Luthman]

If you have an *ACTIVE* cabinet in the neighborhood, that means you
have electronics & batteries & an uplink fiber to feed it.  You'll also
need another fiber in another direction.  If I were to do things in town,
that would make sense.

In my case I'm in the middle of nowhere so I have all of my customers all
going to one solid concrete building (gas generator, LP generator, weeks
worth of batteries) and a 100% underground plant.  My only concern is
illegal digging in the ROW.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 5:45 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Mike Hammett kind of touched on what I was asking and why.  I was told
> that Metronet near me had a hut in Batavia that also served St. Charles,
> Geneva, West Chicago, etc.  via PON.
>
>
>
> Also a company that built a middle mile / anchor institution fiber network
> with a BTOP grant 12+ years ago convinced the county to let them take it
> private, and they have run aerial fiber in most of Shabbona which is one of
> the towns Mike mentioned.  With my misconception about how FTTH is
> typically deployed, I expected there to be at least one cabinet or hut in
> town.  But I think they are just using strands from the BTOP project and
> feeding it passively from a distant town.
>
>
>
> I would prefer to see more redundancy, especially since both buried and
> aerial fiber definitely gets damaged around here, but I guess practical
> results matter more than what-ifs.  At least local power outages shouldn’t
> take it down, and a central NOC or hut should be able to have serious
> battery and/or generator backup.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 16, 2024 4:12 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PON question
>
>
>
> PON is one port at your end and then goes through splitters that reduce
> light and add ports to end up at customer ONTs.  1:128 is pretty short
> range and high customer count - we could never do that in a rural plant
> (5-15 miles).  Maybe 1:64 but that's about the limit.  There is NO
> redundancy in PON.  Best you could do is 2x32 or whatever splitters which
> is where you feed the downstream fiber with two PON ports.  An engineer
> from Metronet told me they did that but no one could ever answer why
> (technically or operationally).   Think like you have an AP on a tower
> feeding 32 customers.  What are the chances you have an AP right below it
> with the same SSID/PSK/frequency for the customers to connect to if the
> first AP goes down?
>
>
>
> Think of Active E like a bunch of dumb switches.  You have a 48 port
> switch that goes to 48 customers using 48 fibers.  If the fiber feeding the
> switch goes down, it can go to a different fiber/uplink port.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 7:59 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Since there are FTTH people here and I’m mostly ignorant of such things,
> maybe someone can clear something up for me.
>
>
>
> I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC.
> I expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of
> neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active
> EPL style fiber.  Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber
> cut wouldn’t take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic
> would reroute.
>
>
>
> I’ve been told this is not the case.  And that instead, each PON could go
> back over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all
> passive.
>
>
>
> Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure
> out what I’m asking.
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] PON question

[Josh Luthman]

PON is one port at your end and then goes through splitters that reduce
light and add ports to end up at customer ONTs.  1:128 is pretty short
range and high customer count - we could never do that in a rural plant
(5-15 miles).  Maybe 1:64 but that's about the limit.  There is NO
redundancy in PON.  Best you could do is 2x32 or whatever splitters which
is where you feed the downstream fiber with two PON ports.  An engineer
from Metronet told me they did that but no one could ever answer why
(technically or operationally).   Think like you have an AP on a tower
feeding 32 customers.  What are the chances you have an AP right below it
with the same SSID/PSK/frequency for the customers to connect to if the
first AP goes down?

Think of Active E like a bunch of dumb switches.  You have a 48 port switch
that goes to 48 customers using 48 fibers.  If the fiber feeding the switch
goes down, it can go to a different fiber/uplink port.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 7:59 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Since there are FTTH people here and I’m mostly ignorant of such things,
> maybe someone can clear something up for me.
>
>
>
> I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC.
> I expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of
> neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active
> EPL style fiber.  Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber
> cut wouldn’t take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic
> would reroute.
>
>
>
> I’ve been told this is not the case.  And that instead, each PON could go
> back over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all
> passive.
>
>
>
> Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure
> out what I’m asking.
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Nice call

[Josh Luthman]

That's how I feel, too.  Jim has a point, but then if that guy gets $25 the
neighbor also wants $25.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 7:10 PM  wrote:

> Not gonna do that.  Our rates are far and equitable.
>
>
> *From:* Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 15, 2024 3:36 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Josh Luthman
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Nice call
>
>
> Offer to match.
>
> $25/mo is $25/mo that you wouldn’t otherwise make.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
>
> Owner
>
> Brazos WiFi
>
> 979-985-5912
>
> j...@brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2024 4:24 PM
> *To:* Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave
> Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Nice call
>
>
>
> How you gonna fight $25/month for 1G?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:15 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Nice call
>
>
>
> They made money for 2 years and you made negative money with your
> depreciating ONT.  Better now that he's back but damn that's a lot of lost
> revenue :/
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 5:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Just had a call from a former customer.  He was wanting to come back.  He
> went with an Xfinity $25/month deal.  This was 2 years ago.  The deal
> expired and now he wants to come back.  We left the ONT and are ready to
> simply turn him back on.  Nice to win one back like that.  Especially
> against those guys.
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Nice call

[Josh Luthman]

I don't think you can :(

On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 5:24 PM  wrote:

> How you gonna fight $25/month for 1G?
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:15 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Nice call
>
> They made money for 2 years and you made negative money with your
> depreciating ONT.  Better now that he's back but damn that's a lot of lost
> revenue :/
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 5:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Just had a call from a former customer.  He was wanting to come back.  He
>> went with an Xfinity $25/month deal.  This was 2 years ago.  The deal
>> expired and now he wants to come back.  We left the ONT and are ready to
>> simply turn him back on.  Nice to win one back like that.  Especially
>> against those guys.
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Nice call

[Josh Luthman]

They made money for 2 years and you made negative money with your
depreciating ONT.  Better now that he's back but damn that's a lot of lost
revenue :/

On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 5:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Just had a call from a former customer.  He was wanting to come back.  He
> went with an Xfinity $25/month deal.  This was 2 years ago.  The deal
> expired and now he wants to come back.  We left the ONT and are ready to
> simply turn him back on.  Nice to win one back like that.  Especially
> against those guys.
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

[Josh Luthman]

Just use a Jpole?  Or an MTOW?

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31 AM Matt  wrote:

> I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I
> see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just
> mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does
> anyone know of anything?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen

[Josh Luthman]

Don't ground yourself.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 3:10 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> How does somebody steal an AM tower without getting electrocuted? arent
> they all energized?
>
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:50 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Is that the “you’re not using it so it’s mine now” rule?
>>
>>
>>
>> Does that apply to cars?  How about spouses?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 9, 2024 4:53 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after
>> 200-foot radio tower stolen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's in our neighboring county.  Been there, know the guy, know the
>> station.
>>
>> For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county
>> (since 2014)
>>
>>
>>
>> 1)  Ok, why on EARTH is this viral?  Like internationally viral?
>>
>>
>>
>> 2)  For all the backstory  / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not
>> even on facebook) :
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741
>>
>>
>>
>> 3)  Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you
>> just unscrew it in 10 foot sections
>>
>> just like a rohn25, no?  I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing
>> tho.  Clearly no one listens to that AM,
>>
>> except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my home county we have two licensed AMS,  1340 and 1460.  1460 has
>> been off air for at least 5 years,
>>
>> but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed.  1340 signed off
>> last week - the property had been abandoned,
>>
>> seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by
>> the guy currently running it), and now it's being
>>
>> sold for a development of houses.  Good for them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are
>> also silent
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF 
>>
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:18 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after
>> 200-foot radio tower stolen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM
>>
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>
>> *Subject:* NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio
>> tower stolen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Josh Luthman]

Tough crowd.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 9:09 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Turns out you are right, they haven’t released the license key to
> distributors yet.  I was looking at the P/N and price for the key to unlock
> MU-MIMO on a 450m Lite.  My mistake.
>
>
>
> What is Cambium thinking, put the feature in a production release with a
> 30 day trial license, but not sell the key to use it beyond the 30 days?
> And how are customers supposed to decide if it’s worth the price if they
> don’t tell us the price?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Tyson Burris
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2024 3:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation
> feature
>
>
>
> Correction to my comment.  I can’t see the benefit.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris*
> *President & CEO*
>
>
>
> Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
>
> 739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131
>
>
>
> [image: Mobile mobile-icon]317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours)
> [image: phone phone-icon]317-738-0320 (office)
> [image: Email email-icon]  t...@franklinisp.net
> [image: website website-icon]  www.surfici.net
>
>
>
>
>
> *Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
> Cameras - Fiber – MDUs  *
>
>
>
> *Active Member To The Following**:*
>
>
>
> WISPA 
>
> NBBC 
>
>
>
> Confidentiality Notice:
>
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the
> sender immediately and delete this email from your system.
>
>
>
> No Binding Agreement:
>
>
>
> This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it
> specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized
> agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this
> email are solely those of mine alone and do not necessarily represent those
> of the company. If you have any doubts about the validity or enforceability
> of any agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult
> with an attorney.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2024 4:11 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation
> feature
>
>
>
> That's what my distributor has it listed for.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Tyson Burris"
> Sent: 2/8/2024 3:02:42 PM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature
>
> I was told they are still talking about the final price.  Either way I can
> see the benefit here if you have to give up some of the AP features to work.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris*
> *President & CEO*
>
>
>
> Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
>
> 739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131
>
>
>
> [image: Mobile mobile-icon]317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours)
> [image: phone phone-icon]317-738-0320 (office)
> [image: Email email-icon]  t...@franklinisp.net
> [image: website website-icon]??www.surfici.net
>
>
>
>
>
> *Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
> Cameras - Fiber – MDUs  *
>
>
>
> *Active Member To The Following**:*
>
>
>
> WISPA 
>
> NBBC 
>
>
>
> Confidentiality Notice:
>
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the
> sender immediately and delete this email from your system.
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> No Binding Agreement:
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> This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it
> specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized
> agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this
> email are solely those of mine alone and do not necessarily represent those
> of the company. If you have any doubts about the validity or enforceability
> of any agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult
> with an attorney.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 1, 2024 12:00 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation
> feature
>
>
>
> I think you know the answer, it's $2000 per AP. $2500 MSRP.
>
> I'd pay it if 3x and 4x modulations were suddenly 6x or 8x. But they're
> not.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Craig Schmaderer"
> Sent: 2/1/2024 10:40:30 AM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"

Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

[Josh Luthman]

There's a link for that here:

https://www.rd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/amazon-fulfillment-centers-grid-collage.jpg

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 11:42 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> A live camera of your finished goods shelves would be more fun. j/k
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
> Sent: 1/30/2024 10:26:56 AM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times
>
> We used to do pretty good at almost always having stock, and if we ran out
> of something the replenishment stock was only a few days from being on the
> shelf.
>
> Then 2020 happened, and then supply chain crap happened, and a thousand
> other things seemed to conspire to prevent us from getting back to that
> state.
>
> The good news is that it looks like we're close to being back to just
> having stock.   Right this second,  the inventory spreadsheet seems to
> think we have,  on average, 15 days of stock.   That doesn't mean we
> currently have 15 days worth of everything.   It's more like of 30 days of
> one thing and almost nothing of something else.
>
> I have every expectation we'll be up to 60 days pretty much across the
> board in another couple months.
>
> As far as the website not reporting stock, there's a whole set of stories
> there which are more of an in person discussion.  Suffice it to say we wish
> it did too.
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:45 AM Tyson Burris  wrote:
>
>> Yes, it’s a fairly common problem.  I have gone 2-4 weeks at times.  I do
>> wish his website reported stock.  I usually just assume a few weeks anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris*
>> *President & CEO*
>>
>>
>>
>> Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
>>
>> 739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Mobile mobile-icon]317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours)
>> [image: phone phone-icon]317-738-0320 (office)
>> [image: Email email-icon]  t...@franklinisp.net
>> [image: website website-icon]??www.surfici.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
>> Cameras - Fiber – MDUs  *
>>
>>
>>
>> *Active Member To The Following**:*
>>
>>
>>
>> WISPA <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>
>> NBBC <http://www.nbbc.coop/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice:
>>
>>
>>
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
>> that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is
>> strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please
>> notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system.
>>
>>
>>
>> No Binding Agreement:
>>
>>
>>
>> This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it
>> specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized
>> agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this
>> email are solely those of mine alone and do not necessarily represent those
>> of the company. If you have any doubts about the validity or enforceability
>> of any agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult
>> with an attorney.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2024 9:38 AM
>> *To:* AFMUG 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone ordered a Site Monitor this month?  I'm at 2 weeks of pending
>> order and haven't heard anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> I didn't want to open a Tech support ticket, Forrest.  I don't mean to
>> call you out but I figured we're all friends here.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>>
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> --
>> AF mailing list
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

[Josh Luthman]

Just get unlimited money and buy all the parts you need for 10 years.  Duh?

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 11:27 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> We used to do pretty good at almost always having stock, and if we ran out
> of something the replenishment stock was only a few days from being on the
> shelf.
>
> Then 2020 happened, and then supply chain crap happened, and a thousand
> other things seemed to conspire to prevent us from getting back to that
> state.
>
> The good news is that it looks like we're close to being back to just
> having stock.   Right this second,  the inventory spreadsheet seems to
> think we have,  on average, 15 days of stock.   That doesn't mean we
> currently have 15 days worth of everything.   It's more like of 30 days of
> one thing and almost nothing of something else.
>
> I have every expectation we'll be up to 60 days pretty much across the
> board in another couple months.
>
> As far as the website not reporting stock, there's a whole set of stories
> there which are more of an in person discussion.  Suffice it to say we wish
> it did too.
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:45 AM Tyson Burris  wrote:
>
>> Yes, it’s a fairly common problem.  I have gone 2-4 weeks at times.  I do
>> wish his website reported stock.  I usually just assume a few weeks anymore.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris*
>> *President & CEO*
>>
>>
>>
>> Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
>>
>> 739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Mobile mobile-icon]317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours)
>> [image: phone phone-icon]317-738-0320 (office)
>> [image: Email email-icon]  t...@franklinisp.net
>> [image: website website-icon]  www.surfici.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
>> Cameras - Fiber – MDUs  *
>>
>>
>>
>> *Active Member To The Following**:*
>>
>>
>>
>> WISPA <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>
>> NBBC <http://www.nbbc.coop/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice:
>>
>>
>>
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
>> that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is
>> strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please
>> notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system.
>>
>>
>>
>> No Binding Agreement:
>>
>>
>>
>> This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it
>> specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized
>> agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this
>> email are solely those of mine alone and do not necessarily represent those
>> of the company. If you have any doubts about the validity or enforceability
>> of any agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult
>> with an attorney.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2024 9:38 AM
>> *To:* AFMUG 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone ordered a Site Monitor this month?  I'm at 2 weeks of pending
>> order and haven't heard anything.
>>
>>
>>
>> I didn't want to open a Tech support ticket, Forrest.  I don't mean to
>> call you out but I figured we're all friends here.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>>
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

[Josh Luthman]

Sounds good, thanks for the update.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 11:07 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Shipping out today.   Along with all the other base 3 orders.   We're
> finally almost all caught up.   The base 3 was the last of the regularly
> stocked items that we were backlogged on.
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:39 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone ordered a Site Monitor this month?  I'm at 2 weeks of pending
>> order and haven't heard anything.
>>
>> I didn't want to open a Tech support ticket, Forrest.  I don't mean to
>> call you out but I figured we're all friends here.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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[AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

[Josh Luthman]

Has anyone ordered a Site Monitor this month?  I'm at 2 weeks of pending
order and haven't heard anything.

I didn't want to open a Tech support ticket, Forrest.  I don't mean to call
you out but I figured we're all friends here.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
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Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Josh Luthman]

Even if the RX level is good?

> rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22 PM Daniel Pautz via AF  wrote:

> Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss.   We have had that
> on mirrored paths,  or even single paths with crappy splices on one of the
> strands.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>
>
>
> Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber?
>
>
>
> Chuck McCown
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503
> 435-830-4306 cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Zach Underwood
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:07 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>
>
>
> tired again this morning and still no link. rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4
> lanes on both sides. We got 10gb 80km to link up. This will do for now. We
> will be looking at getting 40gb 80km single lane optics or adding another
> site to fiber loop to shorten the footage to under 40km.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
> So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range.
>
>
>
> 100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion
> compensation fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a box style at one end.
>
>
>
> You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at
> the max they can do for that specific unit.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood 
> wrote:
>
>
> *TX Power*   2~6.5dBm
>
>
>
> I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is
> quoted at 31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I can't
> get it to link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of attenuator
> to get almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up.
>
> I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for
> links over 40km.
>
> So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the
> options are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me
> this is the first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km.
>
> switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R
>
>
>
> https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf
> https://www.fs.com/products/115818.html?attribute=29032=3462585
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:35 AM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
> There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood 
> wrote:
>
> Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Zach Underwood" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>
> I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power
> levels one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista
> devices hosting the optics is the same.
>
>
>
> Has anyone seen much difference between optic like this? My sample size is
> small due to the optices costing $4k each
>
>
>
> --
>
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>
> My website 
>
> advance-networking.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>
> My website 
>
> advance-networking.com
>
> --
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>
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Zach 

Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Josh Luthman]

The Juniper MX are routers.  Spectrum uses one here and it does the entire
area of something like 100k+ people.

I don't know the model, but Spectrum again uses a Juniper switch between
the MX router and Adva at customer sites.  It's a big fat switch.

They seem pretty good from a customer point of view.  I don't know what's
involved in buying and operating them.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:01 AM Daniel Pautz via AF 
wrote:

> Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take
> full multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing
> with some Arista’s.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Zach Underwood
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>
>
>
> While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used
> Arista. We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k
> eaxh.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

[Josh Luthman]

>It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC

Very

>There is no such thing as a -48V battery.  A battery is a battery, correct?

Correct.  You still wire + to + and - to -

>How about the ICT Platinum power supplies.  They show as 48VDC, can they
be used on -48VDC equipment?

Pretty confident, this is their industry.  Cliff is my contact who can
confirm.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 11:27 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> I know we have been though this many times and I thought I understood it.
>
> -48VDC is the Negative side being HOT, correct?
>
> It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC
>
> There is no such thing as a -48V battery.  A battery is a battery, correct?
>
> How about the ICT Platinum power supplies.  They show as 48VDC, can they
> be used on -48VDC equipment?
>
> I remember Check saying something about a way to test to see if a piece of
> equipment that is Neg 48VDC is truly grounded as Neg 48VDC.
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Josh Luthman]

FWIW I avoided the "bleeding edge" battery technology and went with the
tried and true batteries.  They just sit there and work.  I only typically
need a couple of minutes of run time before the LP generator but I have 24
hours of run time (with all 7 shelves in another few years).

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:38 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It wasn't a
> pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed over priced options.
> Trying to be more careful this time.
>
> Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount batteries,
> but they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are
> using.  Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge these guys.
> Has anyone here actually setup a LifePO4 plant.  I may have to stay with
> the Lead Acid stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding
> edge.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:
>
> PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD,
> whereas we
> PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want lifespan..
> So
> PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..
>
> PKvA> Peter Kranz
> PKvA> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
> PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4
> batts now.
> PKvA> I got one the other day for this one:
> PKvA>
> https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate
> PKvA> d-bluetooth-victron-comms
>
> PKvA> 12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".
> That's a
> PKvA> lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are
> rated 225
> PKvA> Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a
> chore.
>
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Cc: Peter Kranz 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID
> set by
> PKvA> dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
> PKvA> battery to pull data points of interest. Take a look at this
> battery, it
> PKvA> supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries with battery ID's
> set by dip
> PKvA> switch.
>
> PKvA> https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/
>
> PKvA> Peter Kranz
> PKvA> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
> PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries
> total, each
> PKvA> with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?
> Maybe.
> PKvA> My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
> PKvA> problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the
> tires are
> PKvA> at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift
> probably just
> PKvA> has one battery (and no SNMP).
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
> PKvA> To: af@af.afmug.com
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or
> something.
> PKvA> Nah, that would be too hard.
>
>
> PKvA> bp
> PKvA> 
>
> PKvA> On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
> >> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than
> Bluetooth.
> >> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built
> >> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty
> >> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors
> >> now support
> >> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
> >>
> >> Peter Kranz
> >> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> >> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> >> Mobile: 510-207-
> >> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
> >> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
> >>
> >> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.
> >>
> >> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm
> >> seeing 

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Josh Luthman]

That means you took out the counter weight...?

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I just replaced some forklift batts with lithium.  Something like 8 cents
> per watt hour.  Super light too.
> I think I will go with lithium from here on out.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 11:45 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Happy New Year
>
> I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years
> ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers?
> What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
> Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof

[Josh Luthman]

US cell phones have GLONASS support.  What makes you say there's a legal
question?

On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 6:10 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Some customers wanted the added redundancy that comes with more
> satellites.  The irony of the thing which we changed to improve reliability
> biting one in the rear with this issue is not lost on me.
>
> At this point, everything is going out with GPS+GALILEO since there is
> some question about if it is even legal to operate a GLONASS receiver in
> the USA.
>
> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 2:26 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> What is the benefit to using glonass?
>> For timing is not GPS good enough?
>>
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2023 10:10 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
>>
>> Well hopefully most everything can be remotely handled.
>>
>> I'm really really hoping that the fix my current GPS vendor provided
>> actually survives the rollover.  Otherwise this is going to be a much
>> bigger mess.
>>
>> I really wish multi GNSS simulators weren't so expensive.   Like costs
>> more than we make on syncboxes for a couple/few years expensive.   They're
>> also not available to lease for any reasonable price.  As a result I get to
>> trust that my vendor did exactly the right thing here.
>>
>> I'm hanging around the phone for the inevitable panicked call from the
>> customer who ignored (or didn't get) all of the messages we sent out.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 9:07 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all.  Happy New Year.  I have to do GLONASS fixups at 3pm today, the
>>> forecast is freezing rain.  Yay!
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 12:08 AM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
>>>
>>> Everbuddy say welcome back Ken!!!
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
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Re: [AFMUG] WDM transceivers

[Josh Luthman]

My guess would be no...otherwise no one would buy DWDM multiplexers...

On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 5:38 PM  wrote:

> Dumb question of the week:
>
> Could I run a pair of DWDM transceivers through a CWDM multiplexer and
> expect it to work?  I’d only be using a small slice of the channel, but if
> the DWDM wavelength is encompassed by the larger CWDM wavelength then that
> light should still reach the intended destination, right?
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT FB videos and reels

[Josh Luthman]

FB videos are more likely selfie cameras than copyright.  Both are
certainly prevalent.

On Sat, Dec 9, 2023 at 2:55 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Probably to reduce automated copyright claims.
>
> I notice that a lot of the videos are using non-licensed material and
> modifying in some way.   Left to right flip,  zooming, stretching, adding
> borders, etc.
>
> Plus, I've also noticed that a lot of selfie camera video is left mirrored
> like it is often shown on the live display on the phone.
>
> On Sat, Dec 9, 2023, 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Anyone else notice that most of the video content there are flipped left
>> to right.  Bolts are tightened by turning to the left.  Americans drive on
>> the left side of the street etc.  Most text is mirrored.  I wonder why they
>> do that.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Got paid

[Josh Luthman]

That's awesome!

On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 4:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I did.  Wire transfer has not landed yet but here is his last email to me:
>
> Thank you Chuck I really appreciate you . I will transfer things
> around
> and send it today and send conformation . I am sorry it had to come to
> this
> . I should have moved more swiftly .
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 2:19 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Got paid
>
> Did you pull the comments and review?
>
> On 10/24/23 11:53, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > A prime contractor has owed me about $15K for 6 months.  Totally dogging
> > me.
> > They showed up in my FB feed crowing about a big job they had just
> > completed.  So I started making snarky comments on their posts.  I also
> > gave them a bad review and commented that they don’t pay their subs. The
> > owner of the company called me and settled about 15 minutes after
> posting
> > the review.
> > A whole lot cheaper than attorneys.
> >
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Geolocation updates

[Josh Luthman]

You can hope, but that will probably never happen.  It's just the way it is.

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 10:00 PM  wrote:

> I see the mention of Hulu on that page.  Someone’s Hulu TV has the
> channels from another market which is what prompted today’s musings.
>
> Will the “IP Admin” at Hulu override stuff?
>
>
>
> I have a similar list of geolocation providers already, but I can’t
> believe all of these ding dongs have completely separate databases and
> don’t talk to each other.
>
>
>
> Also, since it’s now a thing that is service affecting and impacts TV ad
> revenue, I hope to hell ARIN or someone starts a central repository so we
> don’t have to update a dozen different people if something changes.  I
> haven’t dug into all of them yet, but IP2Location wants a notarized
> affidavit attached to your request for changes.  I have no idea why they
> placed some of our IP’s on the wrong side of the state, but apparently they
> didn’t require a sworn and notarized affidavit to screw it up.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 22, 2023 2:44 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Geolocation updates
>
>
>
> https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> [image: Image removed by sender.] [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image:
> Image removed by sender.] 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> [image: Image removed by sender.] [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image: Image
> removed by sender.] 
> The Brothers WISP 
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> [image: Image removed by
> sender.]
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 22, 2023 1:03:19 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Geolocation updates
>
> Which services do you need to update when you move IP blocks or get new
> blocks?
>
>
>
> I can’t believe they all have their own separate databases.  There must be
> smaller ones that key off of larger ones.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 12 Volt DC to 120 VAC

[Josh Luthman]

You want an inverter.

Depends on your wattage/demand, but I'd start with another ad-155a (155
watts, a being 12v)
https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/2146118.PDF

Also assuming you want to charge the battery from the utility, but if not
then this would still do the inverting (if memory serves this generation
doesn't require AC to kick into gear).

On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 1:57 PM Matt  wrote:

> Does anyone know of a small device to convert 12 Volt DC to 120 VAC at
> 10 - 20 watts and is DIN mounted?
>
> I know there are tons that plug into cigarette plug but was wanting
> something I could DIN or similar mount.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] dumb OTDR question

[Josh Luthman]

Oh whoops!

On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 3:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> It’s definitely a splitter
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 29, 2023 3:25:32 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] dumb OTDR question
>
> Probably not a splitter.  It gets very confused shooting past it (both our
> cheap China & the demo Veex).
>
> On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 3:24 PM Trey Scarborough  wrote:
>
> Could be a bad splice, but if it is a splitter it could just be an
> artifact of that. It all depends on the type of splitter you are using and
> what wavelength the OTDR is. It also depends what is on the other ends of
> the splitter. If that is a splitter with nothing spliced to one of the ends
> you  can get a reflection off of a dead end.
> On 9/28/23 8:32 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Can you have return loss (i.e. reflections) on bad fusion splices?
>
> Attached trace is a splitter showing return loss.  It's supposed to be
> fusion spliced, not connectorized.  There are several of these on this
> project.  Trying to figure out if contractor snuck in some incorrect parts
> or if he's got issues with his fusion splicer.  I'd assume it's bad
> splices, but maybe coincidentally the reflectance just happens to be about
> right for UPC connectors.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] dumb OTDR question

[Josh Luthman]

Probably not a splitter.  It gets very confused shooting past it (both our
cheap China & the demo Veex).

On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 3:24 PM Trey Scarborough  wrote:

> Could be a bad splice, but if it is a splitter it could just be an
> artifact of that. It all depends on the type of splitter you are using and
> what wavelength the OTDR is. It also depends what is on the other ends of
> the splitter. If that is a splitter with nothing spliced to one of the ends
> you  can get a reflection off of a dead end.
> On 9/28/23 8:32 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Can you have return loss (i.e. reflections) on bad fusion splices?
>
> Attached trace is a splitter showing return loss.  It's supposed to be
> fusion spliced, not connectorized.  There are several of these on this
> project.  Trying to figure out if contractor snuck in some incorrect parts
> or if he's got issues with his fusion splicer.  I'd assume it's bad
> splices, but maybe coincidentally the reflectance just happens to be about
> right for UPC connectors.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] dumb OTDR question

[Josh Luthman]

When we found issues in our fiber, it has always been bad bends.  We have
Sumitomo splicers and they've all been flawless so far.  Just our
experience.

Our OTDR is cheap china junk - it can't actually detect the splices ~90% of
the time.  Veex demo units caught every single splice.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 9:33 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Can you have return loss (i.e. reflections) on bad fusion splices?
>
> Attached trace is a splitter showing return loss.  It's supposed to be
> fusion spliced, not connectorized.  There are several of these on this
> project.  Trying to figure out if contractor snuck in some incorrect parts
> or if he's got issues with his fusion splicer.  I'd assume it's bad
> splices, but maybe coincidentally the reflectance just happens to be about
> right for UPC connectors.
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Re: [AFMUG] Blast = Blast

[Josh Luthman]

Yep!  All the time.

On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 9:42 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> You're serious? Our customers receive at least 2 emails from us every
> month. An invoice and a receipt. Plus they'll see an electronic payment on
> their card or bank account.
>
> Not sure why someone wouldn't know who their provider is. Same with
> cellphone, power, gas, other utilities, etc.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 3:04 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> >Most people should know who their provider is.
>>
>> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 10:19 AM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why would you say "I don't know"?
>>>
>>> Tell them to call their ISP. You don't know who it is by name but you
>>> can at least tell them to look it up. Most people should know who their
>>> provider is. I'm also surprised their router doesn't have a sticker on it
>>> with the provider logo and contact info.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:58 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've had 3 people calls us now (Blastcomm), with the Calix 'Gigaspire
>>>> blast' router, because we're blast, and it says blast on the router, so
>>>> why can't we help them.  They're all from South Carolina so far.
>>>>
>>>> "I'm sorry, I can't help you, I'm in Chicago"
>>>>
>>>> "Then who do I call?  My WIFI doesn't work, and it says Blast on the
>>>> router."
>>>>
>>>> "Who do you pay?"
>>>>
>>>> "I don't know"
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Blast = Blast

[Josh Luthman]

>Most people should know who their provider is.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 10:19 AM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Why would you say "I don't know"?
>
> Tell them to call their ISP. You don't know who it is by name but you can
> at least tell them to look it up. Most people should know who their
> provider is. I'm also surprised their router doesn't have a sticker on it
> with the provider logo and contact info.
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:58 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I've had 3 people calls us now (Blastcomm), with the Calix 'Gigaspire
>> blast' router, because we're blast, and it says blast on the router, so
>> why can't we help them.  They're all from South Carolina so far.
>>
>> "I'm sorry, I can't help you, I'm in Chicago"
>>
>> "Then who do I call?  My WIFI doesn't work, and it says Blast on the
>> router."
>>
>> "Who do you pay?"
>>
>> "I don't know"
>>
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Josh Luthman]

OMG get meters.  The panels and batteries will cost more up front and they
won't last as long.  Solar sucks here in Ohio, it's only going to be worse
where you're at.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 11:54 AM Steve Jones  wrote:

> we have a dozen or so, but are looking at pole mount micropops (our own
> poles). We are losing a grain elevator site because they decommissioned the
> elevator and theres no real options for the customers in some of the areas.
> Im just trying to get to something we can get solar power with enough
> battery to last through overcast. So Im calculating per battery runtimes,
> then will look at number of batteries we would need to survive vs paying
> for a ROW meter vs losing the customers. Just have to get to the cost per
> customer to retain them and the benefit gained per pole
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
>> How many of the batteries do you have? Do you need any voltages other
>> than the 48 volts? If you have 4 batteries and only need 48 volts then wire
>> them in series and not have to deal with the converter.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
>> dmmoff...@gmail.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:59 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>>
>>
>>
>> *You’re around C/30 which should be on the high end *of capacity*.
>>
>> Lower load usually means a little extra capacity out of the battery.  I
>> realized that sentence might have been ambiguous.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:56 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>>
>>
>>
>> You can do the whole thing in Watts.
>>
>>
>>
>> 12V * 150ah = 1800 Watt-hours
>>
>> 1800Wh / 50W = 36 hours
>>
>>
>>
>> If they’re telling me 95% efficiency, I’d assume 50W out needs 53W in (50
>> / 0.95).
>>
>> There’s usually an efficiency curve for the device based on load and
>> temperature so it wouldn’t be 95% in all circumstances.  Your system should
>> be drawing less than 5A off the battery, and if your multimeter has a 10A
>> fuse like most do, then you could put the meter in line and actually
>> measure the amperage before and after the converter.  Then you’d know for
>> sure.
>>
>>
>>
>> And the battery’s total capacity will have a curve based on C-rate so
>> there’s some variability there too.  Usually it lasts longer when you’re
>> drawing lower amperage.  You’re around C/30 which should be on the high
>> end.
>>
>>
>>
>> Age and maintenance of the battery affect runtime as well.  If I want 6
>> hours of runtime then I plan Ah for 12 hours runtime. When my batteries are
>> halfway toasted I’m still getting useful life out of them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2023 9:57 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>>
>>
>>
>> Just trying to cipher runtimes
>>
>> I have on hand 150ah 12 volt batteries, so thats what id be looking to
>> use.
>>
>> Excluding the conversion loss of a 12v to 48v step up converter is the
>> math correct here?
>>
>> 12v 150ah=1800 watt hours
>> 1800 watt hours at 48v = 37.5ah
>> 50 watts of radio running 48v = 1.04 amps
>> 37.5ah @ 1.04 amps = 32.77 hours runtime
>>
>>
>>
>> does a step up that claims 95% efficiency mean 95% of the watt hours?
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Josh Luthman]

Four 150ah batteries would be a lot more coin than 12v to 48v if you can
afford the run time loss.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 9:53 AM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> How many of the batteries do you have? Do you need any voltages other than
> the 48 volts? If you have 4 batteries and only need 48 volts then wire them
> in series and not have to deal with the converter.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
> dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:59 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> *You’re around C/30 which should be on the high end *of capacity*.
>
> Lower load usually means a little extra capacity out of the battery.  I
> realized that sentence might have been ambiguous.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:56 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> You can do the whole thing in Watts.
>
>
>
> 12V * 150ah = 1800 Watt-hours
>
> 1800Wh / 50W = 36 hours
>
>
>
> If they’re telling me 95% efficiency, I’d assume 50W out needs 53W in (50
> / 0.95).
>
> There’s usually an efficiency curve for the device based on load and
> temperature so it wouldn’t be 95% in all circumstances.  Your system should
> be drawing less than 5A off the battery, and if your multimeter has a 10A
> fuse like most do, then you could put the meter in line and actually
> measure the amperage before and after the converter.  Then you’d know for
> sure.
>
>
>
> And the battery’s total capacity will have a curve based on C-rate so
> there’s some variability there too.  Usually it lasts longer when you’re
> drawing lower amperage.  You’re around C/30 which should be on the high
> end.
>
>
>
> Age and maintenance of the battery affect runtime as well.  If I want 6
> hours of runtime then I plan Ah for 12 hours runtime. When my batteries are
> halfway toasted I’m still getting useful life out of them.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2023 9:57 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> Just trying to cipher runtimes
>
> I have on hand 150ah 12 volt batteries, so thats what id be looking to use.
>
> Excluding the conversion loss of a 12v to 48v step up converter is the
> math correct here?
>
> 12v 150ah=1800 watt hours
> 1800 watt hours at 48v = 37.5ah
> 50 watts of radio running 48v = 1.04 amps
> 37.5ah @ 1.04 amps = 32.77 hours runtime
>
>
>
> does a step up that claims 95% efficiency mean 95% of the watt hours?
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Robot solar panel cleaners

[Josh Luthman]

You get rain though, don't you?  I would think dust is a concern in the
desert.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 8:54 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I have never cleaned any of my panels.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 8, 2023, at 8:26 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > In short, it's a rechargeable thing that sits in it's docking station
> during
> > the day.  At night it rolls out along a row of panels and brushes them
> all
> > off, then moves from row to row and eventually returns to its docking
> > station.
> >
> > That's a very slick system, but I think it could be a lot simpler.  Get
> > brush rolls for vacuum cleaners and put a row of them on an axle as long
> as
> > the width of the panels.  Have a machine roll along the panels and spin
> the
> > brushes along the way.  It could carry a reel of power cord along with
> it.
> > A belt and pulley sets the speed of the cord reel to sync with the wheels
> > moving the thing along the panel, or it could be a spring loaded reel and
> > just have enough traction and torque to pay out the whole thing.  Don't
> try
> > to have it move from row to row, just install one on each row.  No
> > intelligence, no batteries, no charging station, no software.  An IR
> sensor
> > at the end of the panel row triggers it to reverse direction and go back
> to
> > home.  An IR sensor at the home position triggers it to stop.  If motor
> is
> > over current, shut down and set an alarm relay.  Over current should
> cover
> > most of the crises that might develop, like the cord being caught, stuck
> > wheels, or something jamming the brushes.  Put a simple 3-sided weather
> > housing at the home position.
> >
> > In the deluxe model add sensors to detect broken belts or other problems
> and
> > set more alarm relays.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2023 5:01 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Robot solar panel cleaners
> >
> > Crappola. Wrong link. No idea how that got in there.
> >
> > https://electrek.co/2023/08/04/robot-cleans-solar-panels-without-water/
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> >> On 8/7/2023 12:54 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> Que?
> >>
> >> From: Bill Prince
> >> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 12:33 PM
> >> To: AFMUG
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Robot solar panel cleaners
> >>
> >> These are designed for dust, but maybe they might work for light snow
> >> too?
> >>
> >> https://electrek.co/2023/08/04/robot-cleans-solar-panels-without-water
> >> /
> >>
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Robot solar panel cleaners

[Josh Luthman]

I feel like the brush would get a lot of it but not all of it.  If it's 90%
effective and takes 1% the energy it's worth it for the bottom line.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 5:55 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> You sneak leftist!
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 3:01 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Robot solar panel cleaners
>
> Crappola. Wrong link. No idea how that got in there.
>
> https://electrek.co/2023/08/04/robot-cleans-solar-panels-without-water/
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/7/2023 12:54 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > Que?
> >
> > From: Bill Prince
> > Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 12:33 PM
> > To: AFMUG
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Robot solar panel cleaners
> >
> > These are designed for dust, but maybe they might work for light snow
> > too?
> >
> > https://electrek.co/2023/08/04/robot-cleans-solar-panels-without-water/
> >
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] What spam angle is this?

[Josh Luthman]

OK I will send you a check for $2000 overpaying your $1500 bill.  Please
overnight me a check for $500.

On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 4:52 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> it's a scam
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 11:01 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> What's the angle of this?  Just seeing if there's a reply?  This is all
>> that's in the message.  No hidden links, or HTML, just plain text.
>>
>>
>>
>> ==
>> im Lee Derrick by name, I am having my party in August, and I want it to
>> be held at your venue on the 23rd of August, with 30 guests invited. I'm
>> flexible with the date. Before we proceed with our request, please
>> answer the following questions below;
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Can you work with our official band performing for the event
>> regarding payment to them?
>>
>>
>> 2. Do you accept credit cards,  or Certified Check for payment?
>>
>> Await your quick response.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Lee Derrick
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> TJ Trout
> Volt Broadband
> 209.480.3122 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] Managed Subscriber Routers

[Josh Luthman]

I know you fat fingered that one, Bill :)

On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 10:45 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Think you fat-fingered that URL
>
> http://dwb.linktechs.com/
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/4/2023 6:22 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
> We have a number of customers using hAP AC2 or AX2 units with
> http://rwb.linktechs.net, this allows them to share access to manage
> their own wifi etc..  Works out quite well, and it’s a pay as you go
> thing.  
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Need to Automate MikroTik Backups:  https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of * Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 3, 2023 5:48 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Managed Subscriber Routers
>
>
>
> What are you guys using for customer routers? The best option I've found
> overall is TP Link, but their system only manages their mesh routers at the
> moment. The best hardware I've found is Calix, but their management is
> considerably over priced. Any other suggestions?
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Managed Subscriber Routers

[Josh Luthman]

Calix.  Keep in mind we're doing GPON, so the customer has the u6x no
matter what.  Then we tack on the u4m for those solid concrete/plaster
houses.

On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 7:29 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> We use Calix.  Plume is another one I think Gino was using.  We have
> thousands of Calixes out there, all paying $10/month, so the MGMT fee is
> covered. Do I like the higher fee? No, and I wish Cory would hook me up
> with lower fees for it. :)
>
> > On Aug 3, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
> >
> > What are you guys using for customer routers? The best option I've found
> overall is TP Link, but their system only manages their mesh routers at the
> moment. The best hardware I've found is Calix, but their management is
> considerably over priced. Any other suggestions?
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?

[Josh Luthman]

Same as Bill.  For anything I repeat regularly, I find a way to automate.

compmgmt.msc opens up a lot of goodies

Not sure what else you would do in Windows if not in either of those two...

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 7:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I don't do either. Generally, I type {window key}-r and type the first few
> letters of what I want (like "word" for word,or "ncpa.cpl" for the network
> control panel, and so on. I don't like to waste time mousing around. All
> keyboard all the time.
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 4:00 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been tapping on the windows button and typing what I've been looking
>> for for years.   Don't even know where lots of things are in the start menu
>> anymore.
>>
>> Under windows 10, I did have most of my often used programs pinned to the
>> start menu, so for those I'd click on start and them the program.
>>
>> In windows 11, I've started using flow launcher which is a highly
>> customizable windows search and launcher replacement.  Hit the hotkey for
>> it,  type what you want,  and select.   It also has various plug-ins to be
>> able to manipulate media players,  so simple math and so on.   For the
>> reason below,  this is primarily how I'm launching windows apps today as
>> well.
>>
>> I'm still searching for a couple click application launcher which
>> works for me.  I'd like to do something like windows 10 did, but
>> unfortunately some of the design choices made in windows 11 prevents the
>> start menu from being useful for this as well.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 2:49 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> We've got a new employee in his 20's.  He never browses for programs off
>>> his start menu, but uses the windows search box for everything.
>>>
>>> Anything that has a search box, he types into that.  I didn't even know
>>> that the Grandstream UCM's had a search function, but he only uses that
>>> to find settings to change.  Is this normal behavior now? Is it actually
>>> faster?
>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] wispa

[Josh Luthman]

This is a scam.  Just because they say they have something doesn't mean
it's true.

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 11:42 AM Trey Scarborough  wrote:

> What I don't get is who is this the event coordinator company or is
> someone going out and buying spots and reselling them. How do they proffit
> off of this spam or is it a scam?
>
> I do know that unfortunately the convention industry is just as bad as
> credit card companies with selling your information. Every vendor up and
> down the chain Cvent, GES, Freeman, ChirpE, etc all collect and sell your
> data and/or the organizations as well. You agree to it when you sign up as
> the organization hosting the event and by the individual attendee. It makes
> me wish you could generate a virtual identity for attending trade shows.
> Just like you do with credit cards for suspect online orders.
> On 7/14/2023 10:06 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I wonder if wispa sanctions this spam?
>
> *From:* Alicia Paul
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2023 8:59 AM
> *To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Go-Mtc
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Just wanted to do a quick follow-up on my below email.
>
>
>
> Please review my below email and let me know your interest.
>
>
>
> May I send quote/pricing details for decision-making?
>
>
>
> Looking forward to hearing from you.
> Alicia
> --
>
> *From:* Alicia Paul
> *Sent: *Thursdy, July 13, 2023, 10:53 AM
> *To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Go-Mtc
>
>
> Hi,
>
> We are happy to let you know that the pre-registered attendance list for
> the “WISPAPALOOZA 2023” is now available to buy at the best possible price.
>
> Attendees: WISP Industry Professionals | Industry Experts |
> Decision-Makers in the ISP Industry | Service Providers | Leading Suppliers
> in the Fixed Wireless Internet Industry and many more…
>
> Please let me know your views, so that I can share the counts and pricing
> details.
>
> I look forward to your response.
>
> Regards,
> Alicia Paul | Event Database Coordinator.
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] wispa

[Josh Luthman]

1.41 billion USD in 2021

That sure seems like a thing.

On Fri, Jul 14, 2023 at 6:27 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Wow, is vonage still a thing?
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2023 2:44 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] wispa
>
> *nods* I get them for everything that could exist relating to IT or ISPs.
>
> Do you want to know a list of Vonage customers? We'll sell you that list!
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Colin Stanners" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, July 14, 2023 12:09:12 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] wispa
>
> It is likely unrelated in any way to WISPA, we get such emails for every
> event that we could possibly be related to, every few months.
>
> On Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:34 a.m. Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if wispa sanctions this spam?
>>
>> *From:* Alicia Paul
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2023 8:59 AM
>> *To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Go-Mtc
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Just wanted to do a quick follow-up on my below email.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please review my below email and let me know your interest.
>>
>>
>>
>> May I send quote/pricing details for decision-making?
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking forward to hearing from you.
>> Alicia
>> --
>>
>> *From:* Alicia Paul
>> *Sent: *Thursdy, July 13, 2023, 10:53 AM
>> *To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Go-Mtc
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We are happy to let you know that the pre-registered attendance list for
>> the “WISPAPALOOZA 2023” is now available to buy at the best possible price.
>>
>> Attendees: WISP Industry Professionals | Industry Experts |
>> Decision-Makers in the ISP Industry | Service Providers | Leading Suppliers
>> in the Fixed Wireless Internet Industry and many more…
>>
>> Please let me know your views, so that I can share the counts and pricing
>> details.
>>
>> I look forward to your response.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alicia Paul | Event Database Coordinator.
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] "Low pass" attenuator

[Josh Luthman]

You put the attenuator in the NID.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 8:24 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> What if you just feed it into a splitter? a 32-way split will knock off a
> bunch of dBs.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/12/2023 2:11 PM, castarritt wrote:
>
> So overload is -14db where the other one is -7, but is rx sensitivity also
> ~7db higher?  if it is, just pop a ~7db attenuator into it and all the
> weaker ONTs will still connect just fine.
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 3:31 PM  wrote:
>
>> In my imagination I picture something with microsecond response time that
>> only affects the signal from the stronger ONT.
>>
>> If signal is stronger than -15 then reduce it by 5dB.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe some kind of opto-electronic switch that directs light through two
>> equal length paths.  One path has the attenuator, and the signals from the
>> strong ONT take that path and recombine with the unattenuated path
>> afterwards.  I suppose it doesn’t exist and would cost a million dollars if
>> it did.
>>
>>
>>
>> We’ll see if the vendor can fix the sensitivity issue, and otherwise
>> we’ll just not buy that unit.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 1:01 PM
>> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <
>> af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Low pass" attenuator
>>
>>
>>
>> The real hot ones are just a time slice I presume so you would have to
>> take the attenuator in and out of the circuit synched on the ont transmit
>> schedule.
>>
>> Pads on hot ONTs seem to be the only solution to me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 10:16 AM
>>
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] "Low pass" attenuator
>>
>>
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> We were testing a different brand of XGS-PON transceiver.  It works fine,
>> except clients stronger than about -14 don’t connect.  Our current brand
>> alarms at -10, but functions as high as -7, so our design assumes -10 as a
>> cutoff.
>>
>> We can go around and pad the hot ONT’s, but it would be super convenient
>> if we could magically add 5dB to only the real hot ones.
>>
>>
>>
>> …. we could just not use the transceiver, but it’s a lot cheaper than
>> what the OLT manufacturer is selling us so it would be nice to make it work.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 11:01 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator
>>
>>
>>
>> Curious, where would you have two signals of different amplitude in a
>> fiber system?  PON return signals?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 5:07 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there such a thing as a fiber attenuator that only attenuates a signal
>> higher than some threshold?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m thinking to prevent overloading a receiver, but let weaker signals
>> pass unimpeded.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS 
>> --
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?

[Josh Luthman]

Is there no resistance on the circuit board?

On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 2:40 PM  wrote:

> Where are you getting a volt or two?  Ohms law is pretty settled science.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 12:35 PM
> *To:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>
> I'm saying you're going to see a volt or two loss even if it's a ~10 foot
> run by the time you actually get it to your Tik from the PSU.
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 4:40 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh I missed that.   Yep,  shorter the distance less the drop no matter
>> what the gauge..  assuming tiny power needs of course.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 4:11 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> But he said “a couple of feet”...
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Chuck McCown
>>>
>>> McCown Technology Corporation
>>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>>> 801-250-9503 Office
>>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>>> www.mccowntech.com
>>> www.microtrench.pro
>>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>>
>>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 4:06 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Josh Luthman ; Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>
>>> If it's 23awg cat6, with two wires on each polarity at 100m you'll see
>>> some drop though.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 2:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Say the router takes 250 mA
>>>> Say you are using 16 ga wire
>>>> Say you are using 2 feet of 16 ga wire. (couple feet)
>>>> .008 * .25 = 2 mV
>>>>
>>>> Yes, put in 60 volts in  and get 59.998 volts at the Tik.
>>>>
>>>> Not a very effective way to drop some voltage...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 12:28 PM
>>>> *To:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>>
>>>> If you put 60v on one end and run even a couple of feet off you're not
>>>> getting 60v into the Tik is my point.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 1:31 PM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Talking adding resistance via a length of wire.  My point is it takes
>>>>> a long piece of copper wire to get any appreciable resistance.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 7:08 AM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>>>
>>>>> 10 or 16 gauge for a Mikrotik?  I guess you want that wire to stay ice
>>>>> cold.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2023 at 5:48 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That would be a lot of wire.
>>>>>> 1000’ of #10 wire has 1 ohm of resistance.
>>>>>> 1000 ‘ of #16 has 4 ohms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How much current are we talking?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 7, 2023 10:05 AM
>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or some built in resistance - like a length of copper wire :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 10:28 PM castarritt 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not an EE, but wouldn't something like a 1w 10ohm resistor in
>>>>>>> series with the fiberbox solve this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 7:07 PM Carl Peterson <
>>>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've got a design that uses a Mikrotik Fiberbox Plus as pretty much
>>>>>>>> an SFP+ holder for a TiBit XGS Gpon module.  Mikrotik says Max power is
>>>>>>>> 57V.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a power design using a DRS240 that has max power of 57.6V
>>>>>>>> on vBoost.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any thoughts on the real magix smoke release point on a Mikrotik?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [image: Screen Shot 2023-07-06 at 5.28.34 PM.png]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Carl Peterson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (410) 637-3707
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator

[Josh Luthman]

MUX?

On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 11:55 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Curious, where would you have two signals of different amplitude in a
> fiber system?  PON return signals?
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 5:07 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator
>
> Is there such a thing as a fiber attenuator that only attenuates a signal
> higher than some threshold?
>
> I’m thinking to prevent overloading a receiver, but let weaker signals
> pass unimpeded.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
>
> --
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?

[Josh Luthman]

I'm saying you're going to see a volt or two loss even if it's a ~10 foot
run by the time you actually get it to your Tik from the PSU.

On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 4:40 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Oh I missed that.   Yep,  shorter the distance less the drop no matter
> what the gauge..  assuming tiny power needs of course.
>
> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 4:11 PM  wrote:
>
>> But he said “a couple of feet”...
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 4:06 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Josh Luthman ; Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>
>> If it's 23awg cat6, with two wires on each polarity at 100m you'll see
>> some drop though.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 2:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Say the router takes 250 mA
>>> Say you are using 16 ga wire
>>> Say you are using 2 feet of 16 ga wire. (couple feet)
>>> .008 * .25 = 2 mV
>>>
>>> Yes, put in 60 volts in  and get 59.998 volts at the Tik.
>>>
>>> Not a very effective way to drop some voltage...
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 12:28 PM
>>> *To:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>
>>> If you put 60v on one end and run even a couple of feet off you're not
>>> getting 60v into the Tik is my point.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 1:31 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Talking adding resistance via a length of wire.  My point is it takes a
>>>> long piece of copper wire to get any appreciable resistance.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 10, 2023 7:08 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>>
>>>> 10 or 16 gauge for a Mikrotik?  I guess you want that wire to stay ice
>>>> cold.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 7, 2023 at 5:48 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That would be a lot of wire.
>>>>> 1000’ of #10 wire has 1 ohm of resistance.
>>>>> 1000 ‘ of #16 has 4 ohms.
>>>>>
>>>>> How much current are we talking?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 7, 2023 10:05 AM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik max power really 57V?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or some built in resistance - like a length of copper wire :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 10:28 PM castarritt 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not an EE, but wouldn't something like a 1w 10ohm resistor in
>>>>>> series with the fiberbox solve this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 7:07 PM Carl Peterson <
>>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've got a design that uses a Mikrotik Fiberbox Plus as pretty much
>>>>>>> an SFP+ holder for a TiBit XGS Gpon module.  Mikrotik says Max power is
>>>>>>> 57V.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a power design using a DRS240 that has max power of 57.6V  on
>>>>>>> vBoost.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any thoughts on the real magix smoke release point on a Mikrotik?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [image: Screen Shot 2023-07-06 at 5.28.34 PM.png]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carl Peterson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (410) 637-3707
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fun way to start the day. Incredible PBX Voicemail Notification

[Josh Luthman]

OK.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 12:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Install was done 3 years ago.  HDD install.  And she says the pipe is 12"
> below our duct  Sweetheart.
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Re: [AFMUG] MLB.TV geolocation provider?

[Josh Luthman]

Is it Intelliwave or someone else to deal with?

Do the geolocation services all have you in WCH?

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 12:46 PM Alex Kessler 
wrote:

> Anyone know what service MLB.TV uses for geolocation to ip address?
> Didn't see anything on
> https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/. Tried contacting MLB
> support a couple times but they push it back on the ISP (me) to fix
> without providing any helpful details
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locator Repair

[Josh Luthman]

Manufacturer?

On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 11:09 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Anyone know of a repair shop for locators?  My Amprobe AT-3500 has lost
> it's mind.  LCD Flashes 'ERR128' and continually reboots.  If I mash the
> keys enough, it will eventually go into a 1/2 working state where I can
> still hear the tone, but won't calculate depth or change locating
> frequency, and the LCD Has multiple screens overlaid at the same time,
> it displays the battery capacity image over the top of the signal
> graph.  Looks like Fluke Bought Amprobe, and they EOL'd all
> support/repair for that model in 2021.  If I can pay a guy $1000 to fix
> it, that's cheaper than $5000 for a new locator.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] SCADA work

[Josh Luthman]

Those are some tiny pipes.

On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 12:05 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> https://photos.app.goo.gl/NcN3jQSjdTtcuvdd6
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Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert

[Josh Luthman]

Seems fast from my laptop.  Pingdom says it's quick, too.

[image: image.png]

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 4:16 PM  wrote:

> Yeah overloaded control plane, or a rate limit on ICMP/traceroute, and
> it’s quite possible the control plane has a route back to you that is
> different from the route that is used in forwarding actual traffic…and that
> route may for example pass through a firewall.  Traceroute can only show
> you the outbound path, not the route any of those devices take to get back
> to you.
>
>
>
> If it’s just the one hop and everything after it is normal then it doesn’t
> matter.  Even if tracert looks bad all around I wouldn’t put any stock in
> that if pings to the destination look normal.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 31, 2023 2:27 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert
>
>
>
> Unless that delay shows up for all hops past that one, it was likely just
> a router with an overloaded control plane that can't respond to ICMP, and
> not anything that affects traffic forwarded through it.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 1:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone.  Not sure what is to blame here.  It appears Godaddy is
> the problem at times.  Working better now.  But all of you had a much
> different tracert than I did.  I had a multple second delay between cogents
> last node and godaddy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 31, 2023 11:13 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert
>
>
>
> See
> https://pagespeed.web.dev/analysis/http-www-microtrench-blades-com/7zj3glpe5h?form_factor=mobile
> for some insights.
>
>
>
> Seems like there are some very large images which can be better
> compressed.   And a few other things.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023, 10:17 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Could some of you do a tracert to www.microtrench-blades.com please
>
> Go Daddy is blaming the slow load on my ISP yeah.
>
>
>
> Something is making it load very slow for me and others.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] testing uno dos tres

[Josh Luthman]

But discount the fondling.

On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 1:12 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> We charge extra for probing.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 25, 2023 11:05 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] testing uno dos tres
>
> Good morning...I have sent several posts to the list with pictures but my
> outbox keeps saying unsent...am I getting blocked, censored, probed,
> fondled?
> Inquiring minds want to know
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Josh Luthman]

In our latest rack, it's a 288ct fiber terminating to an ADC (Commscope)
panel and then it's just a load of 1 meter patch cables straight to the OLT
ports.

Cat5 down the tower to the patch panel/switch is always shit.  We put in
Chuck's surge cards and then a patch cable from that to a Mikrotik.
There's always water in 1 cable given enough time, so we replace the card
and cable.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:45 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> 100% patch panels eventually.
>
> But yes, switches and patch panels.
>
> What I'm asking about is generally "Front of rack patch cable
> management".   Not the back, not the cables into the rack, not power cords
> on back of equipment.   Simply port-to-port patch panel on the front.
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:42 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Full of what?  Switches and patch panels?
>>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:37 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok let me clarify.  (Accidentally hit send since it's apparently the
>>> same hotkey to send on gmail as I use elsewhere for "insert a return
>>> without sending")
>>>
>>> Think 10 years of neglect and basically no front-side cable management.
>>> Cables everywhere.   Not as bad as some reddit pictures, but definitely a
>>> good 'before' picture.
>>>
>>> We're starting from scratch here.  All that exists is some side of 2
>>> post rack cable management (rings) which holds existing cat5 cables to some
>>> patch panels.   It's pretty much full too
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:32 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Share a picture of what you have now?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked
>>>>>> back into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP,
>>>>>> specifically some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
>>>>>> apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the 
>>>>>> network
>>>>>> didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> fix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let
>>>>>> the following dissuade suggesting a specific option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
>>>>>> "tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
>>>>>> the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> - Forrest
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Forrest
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Forrest
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Josh Luthman]

Full of what?  Switches and patch panels?

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:37 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Ok let me clarify.  (Accidentally hit send since it's apparently the same
> hotkey to send on gmail as I use elsewhere for "insert a return without
> sending")
>
> Think 10 years of neglect and basically no front-side cable management.
> Cables everywhere.   Not as bad as some reddit pictures, but definitely a
> good 'before' picture.
>
> We're starting from scratch here.  All that exists is some side of 2 post
> rack cable management (rings) which holds existing cat5 cables to some
> patch panels.   It's pretty much full too
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:32 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Nope.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Share a picture of what you have now?
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked
>>>> back into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP,
>>>> specifically some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.
>>>>
>>>> It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
>>>> apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the network
>>>> didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how to
>>>> fix.
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let
>>>> the following dissuade suggesting a specific option.
>>>>
>>>> Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
>>>> "tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out to
>>>> a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
>>>> the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Forrest
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Forrest
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Josh Luthman]

*shrug* then do your suggestion.  Otherwise you'll get every possible
suggestion/idea and it's not going to do anyone any good.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:34 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Nope.
>
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 12:21 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Share a picture of what you have now?
>>
>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked back
>>> into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP, specifically
>>> some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.
>>>
>>> It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
>>> apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the network
>>> didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how to
>>> fix.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let
>>> the following dissuade suggesting a specific option.
>>>
>>> Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
>>> "tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out to
>>> a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
>>> the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
>>> there.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Forrest
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fiber (and I guess CAT5) cable management in racks

[Josh Luthman]

Share a picture of what you have now?

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 2:15 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Thanks to the (not) fun labor situation anymore, I've gotten sucked back
> into some more of the day to day design stuff at the WISP, specifically
> some of the server/fiber infrastructure at the head end.
>
> It's time for me to just fix the cable management in the racks, which
> apparently the previous "owners" of this particular portion of the network
> didn't feel was important, or probably more accurately, didn't know how to
> fix.
>
> I'm looking for ANY options which have been proven to work, don't let the
> following dissuade suggesting a specific option.
>
> Right now, what I'm thinking is to add a "0RU" fiber/cable management
> "tray" below each 1U switch and/or fiber patch panel, then drag that out to
> a vertical riser  which is in front of the rack.   Note that this is for
> the open relay racks, not for closed server racks, not sure what to do
> there.
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Air vac

[Josh Luthman]

I doubt it's 50% each, that doesn't make sense.  It would be more like 100
psi each.  Like going from SISO to MIMO is 3db.

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 1:47 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I dont know the math behind air pressure, but if I split the 150psi into
> two, then does each orifice get 75psi?
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 9:54 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Spoke to a venturi engineer just now.  He says 72 psi is the magic
>> number.  It has something to do with atmospheric air pressure and the
>> density of the air.  I presume that number would change with altitude.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2023 9:34 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Air vac
>>
>> I use an auger to dig them, vac to clear them. Same thing with the
>> airspade/airvac combo.  I dont do posts less than 48 inches. Whats really
>> pushing this is the last project was installing 2 inch duct for the power
>> company, the old primaries were failed concentric, as it turns out the
>> stuff is dangerous, it faults on its own, jabbing shovels and post hole
>> diggers at it is a recipe for disaster and water is its mortal enemy. Im
>> chasing more contracts with that power company to replace more of that
>> concentric. Im not gonna get the cutting power of water, but ill have dry
>> spoils to put back in the hole.
>>
>> I wish I hadnt done all the drugs, id be able to understand the maths on
>> this, im wondering if I cant split the input and double the lift with two
>> venturis
>>
>> On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 9:23 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> So you dug post holes with a shop vac?  Is it sandy where you are?  I
>>> feel like I hit about 10,000 rocks per post hole.  Many too big for a vac
>>> hose, and many just big enough to clog it.
>>>
>>> I might have to try it anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 21, 2023 6:12 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Air vac
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm having better luck with the prototype than a shop vac already, just
>>> trying to improve the lift. Toting a generator isnt really an option.
>>>
>>> I also just have a shop vac hose, if theres moisture the dirt collects
>>> on the sides with a shop vac and loses lift. That's how I've always dug
>>> post holes.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 21, 2023, 3:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think you would have better luck with a strong shop vac and a 30
>>> gallon drum.  I have seen guys do that and it worked OK.  Air powered
>>> vacuum producers work but I don’t know how well.  Sometimes they are called
>>> eductors or ejectors.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Take a look at this one:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/2-in-line-vac-only-aluminum?infoParam.campaignId=T9F=CjwKCAjwgqejBhBAEiwAuWHioM68tuz0PVLcvHFy4CRspRtvhy5gEQQryMrUkOoNv4MVeUTRSWTkvxoCrv8QAvD_BwE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Chuck McCown
>>>
>>> McCown Technology Corporation
>>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>>> 801-250-9503 Office
>>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>>> www.mccowntech.com
>>> www.microtrench.pro
>>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 21, 2023 11:56 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Air vac
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I need advice from you nerds.
>>>
>>> I'm a broke joke, so hydrovac isnt in my budget. Besides, I want dry
>>> spoils to put back in the hole.
>>>
>>> This revision works for venturi. I have multiple size reducer but right
>>> now I'm just doing 3/4 to to inch. The 3/4 to 1 then 1 to half back to 1.5
>>> for the venturi side seemed to have the best lift, but the hardware store
>>> didnt have everything, so it's all in 2 inch right now
>>>
>>> I'll dump to a 2000lb peanut sack if I can find one, but for now I'll
>>> just use a 30 gallon drum and dump on the mega movers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is for use in conjunction with the airspade I did have some coin to
>>> get.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Venturi math gets complicated and I'm full retard so I need to find he
>>> best ways to increase negative pressure and where to drill the ports.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I also wonder if theres an option to recapture the exhaust into the
>>> airspade.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I need you nerds to go full geek.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I can get valves correct I'll have the local machinist make me a
>>> couple that are pressure rated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is to mimic the airvac I also cant afford.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This proof of concept has the lift to clear potholes and handholes,  but
>>> I need to clean it up and get more efficiency.
>>>
>>> A side discovery is that this setup is perfect for blowing straw and
>>> seed with glue
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF 

Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"

[Josh Luthman]

Are the two private subnets in the screenshot the one network at the one
location?  Are you providing the internet?  Do you have SIP ALG enabled?
Do other devices have issues or are all issues isolated to Zoom phones?

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 12:47 PM  wrote:

> Apparently Zoom tier1 isn’t helping.  “Check your firewall settings” and
> other basic stuff.  I don’t know if they’re just script readers or if this
> IT guy doesn’t know what to ask.
>
>
>
> I don’t want to be the guy who just points fingers at the other guy, so
> I’m trying.  I just wish I could capture the SIP messages….friggin TLS so
> super secure that I can’t friggin help you.  If only the world had no bad
> people, then we wouldn’t need security.
>
> I want to hear Steve Jones’s plan for eliminating all the bad people.  I
> bet he has one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 03, 2023 10:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"
>
>
>
> This is really simple. If they can ping the internet or do anything else
> that requires internet at the same time the phones show offline, it's not
> your problem. They should be contacting their phone provider.
>
>
>
> Their voip provider can provide them host names to ping or trace to in
> order to troubleshoot. If you don't sell the voip, you shouldn't be
> troubleshooting it aside from making sure your network ping, jitter, and
> packetloss are normal.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2023, 8:13 AM  wrote:
>
> I’m trying to help a customer with their Yealink phones.  Their provider
> is Zoom.
>
> I’m 99% sure this is not my problem, but I’m chronically too nice to
> people so I’m helping anyway.
>
>
>
> So apparently when they go to dial out they’ll get a message on the screen
> saying “Forbidden”.  I’m not sure if there’s more to the message because I
> only know what they’re telling me.   When this starts happening their IT
> guy says the phones show up as “offline” in whatever management portal
> they’re using.  They factory reset the phone, it reprovisions, shows up as
> “online” in their portal and works again for some period of minutes or
> hours and then does the same thing again.  I asked if a simple reboot
> works, but the IT guy says they factory reset instead of reboot because
> it’s so easy to do .
>
>
>
> They point at me because the phone is “offline”, and they’re tying it to
> network maintenance that was done on Monday morning, but their story is not
> totally consistent about what day it started.  May have been Monday, may
> have been last week, depends who you ask.  I’ve taken packet captures and I
> can see the supposedly “offline” phone talking on port 443 to an AWS server
> (I assume provisioning server) and talking to Zoom on port 5091.  That’s
> all TLS/SSL so I can’t see the messages, but they’re definitely still
> talking to the mothership when they’re reported as “offline”.  They also do
> other normal stuff like DNS queries, NTP sync, and normal LAN chatter like
> CDP, ARP, etc.  I also checked for packet loss to the phones and there’s
> none/negligible loss.  So I’m telling these guys your phones are 100%
> definitely *not* offline.  I told them they need to check with Zoom to
> see what application layer messages are happening, because due to the
> encryption I don’t have a clue, but I’d wager the carrier is sending back a
> 403 Forbidden for some reason.
>
>
>
> Below is a screenshot of his management tool (customer name blocked out).
> I don’t recognize it, maybe one of you all does.
>
> In the meantime I’m wondering if the collective has seen something like
> this with Yealink and/or Zoom.  Any wild-ass guesses?
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Windows 11 on ESXI

[Josh Luthman]

Need a vTPM:

https://core.vmware.com/resource/windows-11-support-vsphere

On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 6:58 PM Daniel Pautz via AF  wrote:

> Make an windows 11 iso with that disabled (so much easier)   use Rufus as
> it
> has quick easy way to disable all of that crap
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2023 4:10 PM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 11 on ESXI
>
> Does anyone have any pointers for getting a Windows11 machine to run on
> EXSI
> (Free) vmware?  All the online instructions that I find talk about enabling
> the 'Trusted platform module' in the VM settings but that's not an option
> in
> my EXSI.  I've tried both ESXI 7 and 8.
>
> Windows 11 will install natively on the hardware (DL360G9) but it seems
> like
> it'll be easier to manage/backup/move if it's a VM.
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] zayo

[Josh Luthman]

Probably area dependent.  They use a contractor on the west half of Ohio
for all of their plant from Columbus to Indiana (maybe more, outside of my
reach).

On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 4:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Anyone have contact for Zayo OSP inspectors?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question

[Josh Luthman]

Is it in place?

On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 11:32 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
>
> typo - 2116
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
>
>
> Wednesday, April 26, 2023, 9:07:35 AM, you wrote:
>
>
> 2016 being the 2116?  Or the 2216?
>
> Sounds like you didn't install it?  Swap it in there and see if it fixes
> your issue.
>
> On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 6:10 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> I have the new 2016 in and programmed up.  But I'm still dealing with
>> more immediate issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are taking a mix of full or partial routes from our providers.  The
>> issue seems to be when one line gets cut, it takes a bit for our old
>> routers to recalculate the tables.
>>
>>
>>
>> Should  I just take default routes?  That way there is a lot less math
>> needed when a line goes down.  I'm assuming inbound BGP will still be
>> optimized for shorted path.  How will that work for the two IX's we connect
>> to? Are they smart enough to calculate best path even if the traffic comes
>> from outside the IX.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>>
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 11:37:35 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> We did not have to do that. But we did set some values the same/similar
>> in the OSPF interfaces.
>>
>> Maybe it’s a matter of implementation, but we do not use broadcast on
>> interfaces and we do not use md5.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 9:21 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>>
>>
>>
>> we had to change our ospf from simple to md5 and from point to point to
>> broadcast to get it to play ball between v7 and v6
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:03 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>> Josh,
>>
>>
>>
>> I will.  I think v7 will be able to handle BGP, OSPF and Filter rules
>> just fine.  Learning the new configure of v7 should not be a huge issue.
>> The big thing I'm worried about is the OSPF interaction between the
>> versions.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>>
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>>
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:52:37 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Let us know how that goes - I was just looking at the 2116 myself.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:40 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>>
>>
>> I think I'll have to upgrade to v7 and a some 2216 units.  Guess it is
>> time to try to integrate some v7 units into the v6 network and see what
>> happens.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>>
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>>
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:10:32 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Years ago on ROX v6 on a 1036, it would take 5 - 10 minutes for /ip route
>> print to reflect an upstream change and then another 5 - 10 minutes for the
>> traffic to actually change directions.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>
>> *Midwest Internet Exchange*
>>
>> *The Brothers WISP*
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Josh Luthman" <*j...@imaginenetworksllc.com*>
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <*af@af.afmug.com*>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 19, 2023 12:25:14 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>>
>> I want to say my old x86 would do full tables in 3 minutes...that's been
>> a while.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FSK just worked, so did packeflux

[Josh Luthman]

Absolutely amazing!  Sad to see it get decom, though.

On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 10:43 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Getting ready to Decom a tower.  Area was overbuilt with both U-Verse and
> Comcast.   The tower owner "Fixed" a split leg on the Rohn25 with an angle
> iron and some muffler clamps, so it won't support any backhaul capacity,
> and we won't climb it anymore.  The FSK Just worked through it all though.
> I guess I should point out that the SyncPipe parasitic worked flawlessly
> for 8 years as well.
>
>
>
> Hardly any entries in the event log over the last 8 years.
>
> **System Startup**
> System Reset Exception -- External Hard Reset
> Software Version : CANOPY 12.1 AP-DES
> Software Boot Version : CANOPYBOOT 4.0
> Board Type : P9
> Device Setting : 5.2GHz
> No valid accounts configured. Using default user account
> FPGA Version : 101410
> FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI
> 01/01/2011 : 00:00:03 UTC : :Acquired GPS Sync Pulse.
> 07/14/2015 : 01:58:00 UTC : :Time set
> 07/14/2015 : 01:58:00 UTC : :GPS Date/Time Set
> 07/14/2015 : 01:58:06 UTC : :Loss of GPS Sync Pulse.
> 07/14/2015 : 01:58:07 UTC : :Acquired GPS Sync Pulse.
> 09/11/2015 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 11/22/2015 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 11/23/2015 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 07/10/2016 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 07/11/2016 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 12/31/2016 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 03/10/2017 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 04/06/2017 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 06/18/2017 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 07/22/2017 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 07/23/2017 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 12/04/2017 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 12/05/2017 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 05/25/2018 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 06/04/2018 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 06/05/2018 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 08/10/2018 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 09/29/2019 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 09/30/2019 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 10/21/2019 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 04/28/2020 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 04/29/2020 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 08/18/2020 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 10/29/2020 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 07/02/2021 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 10/25/2021 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 02/17/2022 : 19:53:32 UTC : :Loss of GPS Sync Pulse.
> 02/17/2022 : 19:53:33 UTC : :Acquired GPS Sync Pulse.
> 08/24/2022 : 11:59:32 UTC : :Time set
> 08/24/2022 : 12:06:07 UTC : :Time set
> 09/27/2022 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 09/28/2022 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> 10/09/2022 : 23:59:59 UTC : :Time set
> 10/10/2022 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time set
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question

[Josh Luthman]

2016 being the 2116?  Or the 2216?

Sounds like you didn't install it?  Swap it in there and see if it fixes
your issue.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 6:10 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> I have the new 2016 in and programmed up.  But I'm still dealing with more
> immediate issues.
>
>
>
> We are taking a mix of full or partial routes from our providers.  The
> issue seems to be when one line gets cut, it takes a bit for our old
> routers to recalculate the tables.
>
>
>
> Should  I just take default routes?  That way there is a lot less math
> needed when a line goes down.  I'm assuming inbound BGP will still be
> optimized for shorted path.  How will that work for the two IX's we connect
> to? Are they smart enough to calculate best path even if the traffic comes
> from outside the IX.
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
>
>
> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 11:37:35 AM, you wrote:
>
>
> We did not have to do that. But we did set some values the same/similar in
> the OSPF interfaces.
>
> Maybe it’s a matter of implementation, but we do not use broadcast on
> interfaces and we do not use md5.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 9:21 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>
>
>
> we had to change our ospf from simple to md5 and from point to point to
> broadcast to get it to play ball between v7 and v6
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:03 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
> Josh,
>
>
>
> I will.  I think v7 will be able to handle BGP, OSPF and Filter rules just
> fine.  Learning the new configure of v7 should not be a huge issue.  The
> big thing I'm worried about is the OSPF interaction between the versions.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:52:37 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>
> Let us know how that goes - I was just looking at the 2116 myself.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:40 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
>
>
> I think I'll have to upgrade to v7 and a some 2216 units.  Guess it is
> time to try to integrate some v7 units into the v6 network and see what
> happens.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:10:32 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>
> Years ago on ROX v6 on a 1036, it would take 5 - 10 minutes for /ip route
> print to reflect an upstream change and then another 5 - 10 minutes for the
> traffic to actually change directions.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>
> *Midwest Internet Exchange*
>
> *The Brothers WISP*
>
>
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" <*j...@imaginenetworksllc.com*>
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <*af@af.afmug.com*>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 19, 2023 12:25:14 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>
> I want to say my old x86 would do full tables in 3 minutes...that's been a
> while.
>
> I think the CCR1009/1036/1072 is a couple of minutes, I don't think it's
> 10-15 though.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 11:20 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> *m...@mailmt.com*> wrote:
>
> Dennis,
>
> Using mikrotik routers.
>
> Two MaxxWave x86 i5 8 core 10 years old v6.47.9
>
> One CCR1072 v6.47.9
>
> Yes taking full tables.
>
> Tried BFD  while back.  Didn't seem that my upstream was supporting it.
> Never established a session.
>
> Thinking I may need to start looking at new hardware and v7.  But before I
> go that route, what should I expect if I do get 3 brand new CCR2116-12G-4S+
> running v7.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:*m...@mailmt.com*
>
> Myakka Communications
> *www.Myakka.com*
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 11:08:45 AM, you wrote:
>
> DB> Really depends on a lot of things.
>
> DB> 1.What router are you using?
> DB> 2. Are you taking full tables from all of your upstreams?
> DB> 3. Are

Re: [AFMUG] Cable Spooler

[Josh Luthman]

If your new wooden real has a steel bolt in the middle, a cordless drill.

If you don't have an axle in the middle, probably stuck with a motor + tire
to spin it up.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 10:55 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm sure something exists, but I can't find the right term.  Is there a
> cheap/easy way of spooling up small cable spools.  12"-18" diameter
> wooden spools.  I was thinking like a small tire or something in a drill
> to hold against the edge of the spool to spin it while another person
> guides the wire on the spool.  Is something like this for sale?  I found
> lots of fishing line spoolers, but they are small.  And a 'Drill wheel'
> Gives me a bunch of sanding tools. I'm guessing I just haven't thought
> of the right term to search for yet.
>
> I've had multiple boxes of Shireen DC-1030 cable that have come with
> Broken cardboard spools in the box, and we have to re-spool the entire
> box onto a new spool by hand.  Spinning the wooden spool by hand for a
> thousand rotations is very tiring.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Chicago Cambium office

[Josh Luthman]

You can use 12ft.io to get around them.  My link was your stuff minus the
paywall.

On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 11:02 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Sorry, I should have included the text.  I run my browser without
> Javascript and it loads fine that way.
>
> From
> https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20230421/developer-of-elk-grove-tech-park-has-big-plans-for-rolling-meadows-office-center
> Developer of Elk Grove tech park has big plans for Rolling Meadows office
> center
>
>-
>
>The $100 million Rolling Meadows Commerce Center, or RMC², would have
>some 600,000 square feet of industrial space across 40 acres at the Jane
>Addams Tollway and Route 53. Courtesy of City of Rolling Meadows
>
>
>
>
>
> Posted4/21/2023 5:30 AM
>
> A prominent Rolling Meadows corporate office center that recently went
> into foreclosure has been acquired by the Rosemont-based developer of the
> Elk Grove Technology Park.
>
> The Atrium Corporate Center -- once the home of AT, 3Com, a Capital One
> call center, and where the Federal Aviation Administration a year ago inked
> a lease to relocate its regional headquarters -- now is under the ownership
> of Brennan Investment Group. That transaction closed Wednesday, resolving
> the pending foreclosure proceeding against San Francisco-based Spear Street
> Capital, said Glen Cole, Rolling Meadows' assistant city manager and
> community development director.
>
>
> Brennan, which broke ground on the massive $1 billion, 85-acre Elk Grove
> tech park in 2018, is planning a similar yet half-sized concept after it
> demolishes the three-story, 485,000-square-foot, mostly-vacant office
> building at 3800 Golf Road in Rolling Meadows. The property is at the
> intersection of two major highways.
>
> Called Rolling Meadows Commerce Center, or RMC², the 40-acre site near the
> Jane Addams Tollway and Route 53 would feature some 600,000 square feet of
> industrial space across two buildings. With an investment of more than $100
> million, it would be one of the larger projects in Rolling Meadows in
> recent years.
>
> "This new development demonstrates that we are a community that supports
> thoughtful and strategic development that will strengthen our economic base
> by creating hundreds of new jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars in
> investment in our city," Mayor Joe Gallo said Thursday in a joint
> announcement with Brennan. "We are excited to welcome Brennan to our
> community and look forward to seeing this project come to life."
>
> Cole said Brennan doesn't yet have any letters of intent with prospective
> tenants, but the company said it would target a wide variety of end users
> including manufacturers, distributors and data centers.
>
> There's no set timeline for construction, but officials said it would
> happen in the next few years. Brennan first must submit a formal
> application with the city, unwind the site's old zoning entitlements, and
> go through the city review and approval process for a new planned
> development, Cole said.
>
> The developer hasn't made any requests for incentives, he added.
>
> Kevin Brennan, the firm's managing principal, didn't respond to a request
> for additional details.
>
> "This location is unmatched in terms of its logistical advantages via the
> confluence of interstate systems, its access to a large and diverse
> workforce, and its proximity to best-in-class amenities, including
> restaurants, hotels and shopping," Brennan said in the news release.
>
> Details of the property transaction or financial terms weren't disclosed.
>
> The acquisition comes three months after New York-based Ares Commercial
> Real Estate Management filed the foreclosure action in federal court,
> alleging Spear Street and its partners defaulted on the $41.9 million loan
> they took out in December 2019 -- just before the onset of the pandemic.
>
>
>
>
>
> As recently as last year, the Atrium was being marketed for lease, with
> brochures boasting of its large and efficient floor plates, flexible
> workspaces, oversized windows, 332-seat auditorium, 17,000-square-foot
> fitness center, cafeteria, and atrium lobby of 37-foot ceilings that was
> recognized by the American Institute of Architects in 2002.
>
> In April, Spear Street secured a long-term lease with the FAA to move the
> federal agency's longtime regional headquarters in Des Plaines to a
> 116,000-square-foot office at the Atrium.
>
> "It was a large property available on the market that was in financial
> distress," Cole said. "It's a challenging real estate market out there.
> Office everywhere is struggling. Rolling Meadows certainly has plenty of
> class A and clas

Re: [AFMUG] Chicago Cambium office

[Josh Luthman]

Bullshit paywalls.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyherald.com%2Fnews%2F20230421%2Fdeveloper-of-elk-grove-tech-park-has-big-plans-for-rolling-meadows-office-center

On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 10:31 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Looks like Cambium is losing their Chicago office as the building is
> getting demolished.  Hopefully they can find a location just as nice.
> On my last tour, they said that when they moved in, the lab space was
> basically already setup for them since USR was the previous tenant.
>
>
>
> https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20230421/developer-of-elk-grove-tech-park-has-big-plans-for-rolling-meadows-office-center
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question

[Josh Luthman]

OSPF is configured completely differently on v7 than v6 :/

On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 11:03 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
>
>
> I will.  I think v7 will be able to handle BGP, OSPF and Filter rules just
> fine.  Learning the new configure of v7 should not be a huge issue.  The
> big thing I'm worried about is the OSPF interaction between the versions.
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
>
>
> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:52:37 AM, you wrote:
>
>
> Let us know how that goes - I was just looking at the 2116 myself.
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:40 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>
>>
>>
>> I think I'll have to upgrade to v7 and a some 2216 units.  Guess it is
>> time to try to integrate some v7 units into the v6 network and see what
>> happens.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>>
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:10:32 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Years ago on ROX v6 on a 1036, it would take 5 - 10 minutes for /ip route
>> print to reflect an upstream change and then another 5 - 10 minutes for the
>> traffic to actually change directions.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 19, 2023 12:25:14 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>>
>> I want to say my old x86 would do full tables in 3 minutes...that's been
>> a while.
>>
>> I think the CCR1009/1036/1072 is a couple of minutes, I don't think it's
>> 10-15 though.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 11:20 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dennis,
>>>
>>> Using mikrotik routers.
>>>
>>> Two MaxxWave x86 i5 8 core 10 years old v6.47.9
>>>
>>> One CCR1072 v6.47.9
>>>
>>> Yes taking full tables.
>>>
>>> Tried BFD  while back.  Didn't seem that my upstream was supporting it.
>>> Never established a session.
>>>
>>> Thinking I may need to start looking at new hardware and v7.  But before
>>> I go that route, what should I expect if I do get 3 brand new
>>> CCR2116-12G-4S+ running v7.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>> Myakka Communications
>>> www.Myakka.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 11:08:45 AM, you wrote:
>>>
>>> DB> Really depends on a lot of things.
>>>
>>> DB> 1.What router are you using?
>>> DB> 2. Are you taking full tables from all of your upstreams?
>>> DB> 3. Are you not using BFD ?
>>> DB> 4.  What version of RouterOS are you using?
>>>
>>> DB> V7 will be faster, 2216 will be faster than a 1036, your hold time
>>> is kinda long..
>>>
>>>
>>> DB> Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> DB> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium
>>> ePMP Certified
>>> DB> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
>>> DB> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> DB> Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> DB> Need to Automate MikroTik Backups:  https://cloud.linktechs.net
>>> DB> Cr

Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question

[Josh Luthman]

Let us know how that goes - I was just looking at the 2116 myself.

On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:40 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Mike,
>
>
>
> I think I'll have to upgrade to v7 and a some 2216 units.  Guess it is
> time to try to integrate some v7 units into the v6 network and see what
> happens.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
>
>
> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:10:32 AM, you wrote:
>
>
> Years ago on ROX v6 on a 1036, it would take 5 - 10 minutes for /ip route
> print to reflect an upstream change and then another 5 - 10 minutes for the
> traffic to actually change directions.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 19, 2023 12:25:14 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>
> I want to say my old x86 would do full tables in 3 minutes...that's been a
> while.
>
> I think the CCR1009/1036/1072 is a couple of minutes, I don't think it's
> 10-15 though.
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 11:20 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> Using mikrotik routers.
>>
>> Two MaxxWave x86 i5 8 core 10 years old v6.47.9
>>
>> One CCR1072 v6.47.9
>>
>> Yes taking full tables.
>>
>> Tried BFD  while back.  Didn't seem that my upstream was supporting it.
>> Never established a session.
>>
>> Thinking I may need to start looking at new hardware and v7.  But before
>> I go that route, what should I expect if I do get 3 brand new
>> CCR2116-12G-4S+ running v7.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 11:08:45 AM, you wrote:
>>
>> DB> Really depends on a lot of things.
>>
>> DB> 1.What router are you using?
>> DB> 2. Are you taking full tables from all of your upstreams?
>> DB> 3. Are you not using BFD ?
>> DB> 4.  What version of RouterOS are you using?
>>
>> DB> V7 will be faster, 2216 will be faster than a 1036, your hold time is
>> kinda long..
>>
>>
>> DB> Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> DB> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium
>> ePMP Certified
>> DB> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
>> DB> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> DB> Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>> DB> Need to Automate MikroTik Backups:  https://cloud.linktechs.net
>> DB> Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>> DB> -Original Message-
>> DB> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka
>> Technologies
>> DB> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:48 AM
>> DB> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> DB> Subject: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>>
>> DB> We have two circuits coming into our NOC.  We peer with 3 different
>> providers on each circuit.  If a circuit fails, BGP will do it's magic and
>> traffic will start flowing though the surviving circuit.
>>
>> DB> However, we seemed to get about 5 - 10 minutes of unstable Internet
>> while this is happening.  Is this normal? If not, what can I do to speed up
>> the process?  Is it a function of my routers having to rebuild routes?
>> Will new faster routers help?  Is it a function of timers?  Keep-Alive is
>> 30s and hold is at 90s.  Should I investigate BFD?
>>
>> DB> How fast could I expect to get this fail-over to work under best
>> conditions?
>>
>> DB> Thanks,
>> DB>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> DB> Myakka Communications
>> DB>
>> https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=www.Myakka.com=08E7599C-F9B1-CC05-BF9C-94CA5B14AB1B=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-1a5796e3447e2e1707012b957aa10dd6970458d5
>>
>>
>> DB> --
>> DB> AF mailing list
>> DB> AF@af.afmug.com
>> DB> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power

[Josh Luthman]

Does it just need to filter 1310/1490 so the OTDR doesn't see it and then
you can shoot 1550?

On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 3:58 PM  wrote:

> Just a lump in a fiber jumper with connectors on each end.  Would take
> some digging to find it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 1:40 PM
> *To:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>
> Got a picture at least?
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 3:35 PM  wrote:
>
>> I tried to find a link, we have one, but I don’t know where I got it.
>> Perhaps a custom fiber filter from fs.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 1:23 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>
>> That's clever!  Nice tip, thanks.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 3:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a band pass filter you can add for shooting over live fiber.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:27 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>>
>>> On Calix optics they say it's OK if the OTDR hits it with 1650.  I don't
>>> think an OTDR will shoot if it sees 1310/1490.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 1:03 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh I 100% believe they could do it.  If I knew tx power of the OTDR it
>>>> would be easy to estimate how close they’d have to be to exceed the
>>>> overload threshold of the transceiver.
>>>>
>>>> “Dynamic Range” has to be a diff between Tx and sensitivity …..or so I
>>>> would assume.  If it is then I could guess that maybe half the range is
>>>> from Tx and half from Rx?  So a 50dB range might mean +25Tx?  I mean that
>>>> all seems plausible to me, but it’s a lot of assuming.  I just wish this
>>>> number was on the spec sheet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The alleged location of the case they were in was over 200,000 ft
>>>> away.  A ZR is a bit sensitive, but that OTDR would have to be pretty damn
>>>> strong to nuke it from that distance.  Maybe it is that strong, or maybe
>>>> they’re lying to me.  So a second part of the equation is whether I trust
>>>> what this crew tells me in the future.  With same guys we had a link we
>>>> were troubleshooting suddenly come up 20 minutes after they were “hands
>>>> off”.  So I already think they might be compulsive bullshitters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:57 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> These guys think so:
>>>>
>>>> https://content.jwplatform.com/previews/IQitGvAV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Chuck McCown
>>>>
>>>> McCown Technology Corporation
>>>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>>>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>>>> 801-250-9503 Office
>>>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>>>> www.mccowntech.com
>>>> www.microtrench.pro
>>>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:23 AM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know how strong the pulses from an OTDR might be?  Is there
>>>> a rule of thumb to guess that based on the dynamic range?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m trying to determine if a dark fiber provider might have blasted a
>>>> ZR optic with an OTDR at close range.  We know they were out testing
>>>> recently, and the manufacturer is saying receiver may have been overloaded
>>>> and the link is way too long for the far end transceiver to have done it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m not out to blame anybody, this is just an educational exercise.
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power

[Josh Luthman]

Got a picture at least?

On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 3:35 PM  wrote:

> I tried to find a link, we have one, but I don’t know where I got it.
> Perhaps a custom fiber filter from fs.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 1:23 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>
> That's clever!  Nice tip, thanks.
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 3:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> There is a band pass filter you can add for shooting over live fiber.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:27 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>
>> On Calix optics they say it's OK if the OTDR hits it with 1650.  I don't
>> think an OTDR will shoot if it sees 1310/1490.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 1:03 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Oh I 100% believe they could do it.  If I knew tx power of the OTDR it
>>> would be easy to estimate how close they’d have to be to exceed the
>>> overload threshold of the transceiver.
>>>
>>> “Dynamic Range” has to be a diff between Tx and sensitivity …..or so I
>>> would assume.  If it is then I could guess that maybe half the range is
>>> from Tx and half from Rx?  So a 50dB range might mean +25Tx?  I mean that
>>> all seems plausible to me, but it’s a lot of assuming.  I just wish this
>>> number was on the spec sheet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The alleged location of the case they were in was over 200,000 ft away.
>>> A ZR is a bit sensitive, but that OTDR would have to be pretty damn strong
>>> to nuke it from that distance.  Maybe it is that strong, or maybe they’re
>>> lying to me.  So a second part of the equation is whether I trust what this
>>> crew tells me in the future.  With same guys we had a link we were
>>> troubleshooting suddenly come up 20 minutes after they were “hands off”.
>>> So I already think they might be compulsive bullshitters.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:57 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> These guys think so:
>>>
>>> https://content.jwplatform.com/previews/IQitGvAV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Chuck McCown
>>>
>>> McCown Technology Corporation
>>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>>> 801-250-9503 Office
>>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>>> www.mccowntech.com
>>> www.microtrench.pro
>>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:23 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>>
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know how strong the pulses from an OTDR might be?  Is there
>>> a rule of thumb to guess that based on the dynamic range?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m trying to determine if a dark fiber provider might have blasted a ZR
>>> optic with an OTDR at close range.  We know they were out testing recently,
>>> and the manufacturer is saying receiver may have been overloaded and the
>>> link is way too long for the far end transceiver to have done it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m not out to blame anybody, this is just an educational exercise.
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power

[Josh Luthman]

That's clever!  Nice tip, thanks.

On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 3:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> There is a band pass filter you can add for shooting over live fiber.
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:27 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>
> On Calix optics they say it's OK if the OTDR hits it with 1650.  I don't
> think an OTDR will shoot if it sees 1310/1490.
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 1:03 PM  wrote:
>
>> Oh I 100% believe they could do it.  If I knew tx power of the OTDR it
>> would be easy to estimate how close they’d have to be to exceed the
>> overload threshold of the transceiver.
>>
>> “Dynamic Range” has to be a diff between Tx and sensitivity …..or so I
>> would assume.  If it is then I could guess that maybe half the range is
>> from Tx and half from Rx?  So a 50dB range might mean +25Tx?  I mean that
>> all seems plausible to me, but it’s a lot of assuming.  I just wish this
>> number was on the spec sheet.
>>
>>
>>
>> The alleged location of the case they were in was over 200,000 ft away.
>> A ZR is a bit sensitive, but that OTDR would have to be pretty damn strong
>> to nuke it from that distance.  Maybe it is that strong, or maybe they’re
>> lying to me.  So a second part of the equation is whether I trust what this
>> crew tells me in the future.  With same guys we had a link we were
>> troubleshooting suddenly come up 20 minutes after they were “hands off”.
>> So I already think they might be compulsive bullshitters.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:57 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>
>>
>>
>> These guys think so:
>>
>> https://content.jwplatform.com/previews/IQitGvAV
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:23 AM
>>
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know how strong the pulses from an OTDR might be?  Is there a
>> rule of thumb to guess that based on the dynamic range?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m trying to determine if a dark fiber provider might have blasted a ZR
>> optic with an OTDR at close range.  We know they were out testing recently,
>> and the manufacturer is saying receiver may have been overloaded and the
>> link is way too long for the far end transceiver to have done it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m not out to blame anybody, this is just an educational exercise.
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power

[Josh Luthman]

It's on the $300 China one, $1000 China one, and the $4000+ VeEx/Exfo...I
have to assume it's on all of them.

On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 2:25 PM  wrote:

> I know there’s a safety feature like that on some OTDR’s.  I don’t know
> what this bunch was using.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 1:28 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>
>
>
> On Calix optics they say it's OK if the OTDR hits it with 1650.  I don't
> think an OTDR will shoot if it sees 1310/1490.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 1:03 PM  wrote:
>
> Oh I 100% believe they could do it.  If I knew tx power of the OTDR it
> would be easy to estimate how close they’d have to be to exceed the
> overload threshold of the transceiver.
>
> “Dynamic Range” has to be a diff between Tx and sensitivity …..or so I
> would assume.  If it is then I could guess that maybe half the range is
> from Tx and half from Rx?  So a 50dB range might mean +25Tx?  I mean that
> all seems plausible to me, but it’s a lot of assuming.  I just wish this
> number was on the spec sheet.
>
>
>
> The alleged location of the case they were in was over 200,000 ft away.  A
> ZR is a bit sensitive, but that OTDR would have to be pretty damn strong to
> nuke it from that distance.  Maybe it is that strong, or maybe they’re
> lying to me.  So a second part of the equation is whether I trust what this
> crew tells me in the future.  With same guys we had a link we were
> troubleshooting suddenly come up 20 minutes after they were “hands off”.
> So I already think they might be compulsive bullshitters.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:57 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>
>
>
> These guys think so:
>
> https://content.jwplatform.com/previews/IQitGvAV
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:23 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>
>
>
> Does anyone know how strong the pulses from an OTDR might be?  Is there a
> rule of thumb to guess that based on the dynamic range?
>
>
>
> I’m trying to determine if a dark fiber provider might have blasted a ZR
> optic with an OTDR at close range.  We know they were out testing recently,
> and the manufacturer is saying receiver may have been overloaded and the
> link is way too long for the far end transceiver to have done it.
>
>
>
> I’m not out to blame anybody, this is just an educational exercise.
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power

[Josh Luthman]

On Calix optics they say it's OK if the OTDR hits it with 1650.  I don't
think an OTDR will shoot if it sees 1310/1490.

On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 1:03 PM  wrote:

> Oh I 100% believe they could do it.  If I knew tx power of the OTDR it
> would be easy to estimate how close they’d have to be to exceed the
> overload threshold of the transceiver.
>
> “Dynamic Range” has to be a diff between Tx and sensitivity …..or so I
> would assume.  If it is then I could guess that maybe half the range is
> from Tx and half from Rx?  So a 50dB range might mean +25Tx?  I mean that
> all seems plausible to me, but it’s a lot of assuming.  I just wish this
> number was on the spec sheet.
>
>
>
> The alleged location of the case they were in was over 200,000 ft away.  A
> ZR is a bit sensitive, but that OTDR would have to be pretty damn strong to
> nuke it from that distance.  Maybe it is that strong, or maybe they’re
> lying to me.  So a second part of the equation is whether I trust what this
> crew tells me in the future.  With same guys we had a link we were
> troubleshooting suddenly come up 20 minutes after they were “hands off”.
> So I already think they might be compulsive bullshitters.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:57 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>
>
>
> These guys think so:
>
> https://content.jwplatform.com/previews/IQitGvAV
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:23 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OTDR transmit power
>
>
>
> Does anyone know how strong the pulses from an OTDR might be?  Is there a
> rule of thumb to guess that based on the dynamic range?
>
>
>
> I’m trying to determine if a dark fiber provider might have blasted a ZR
> optic with an OTDR at close range.  We know they were out testing recently,
> and the manufacturer is saying receiver may have been overloaded and the
> link is way too long for the far end transceiver to have done it.
>
>
>
> I’m not out to blame anybody, this is just an educational exercise.
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question

[Josh Luthman]

I want to say my old x86 would do full tables in 3 minutes...that's been a
while.

I think the CCR1009/1036/1072 is a couple of minutes, I don't think it's
10-15 though.

On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 11:20 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> Using mikrotik routers.
>
> Two MaxxWave x86 i5 8 core 10 years old v6.47.9
>
> One CCR1072 v6.47.9
>
> Yes taking full tables.
>
> Tried BFD  while back.  Didn't seem that my upstream was supporting it.
> Never established a session.
>
> Thinking I may need to start looking at new hardware and v7.  But before I
> go that route, what should I expect if I do get 3 brand new CCR2116-12G-4S+
> running v7.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 11:08:45 AM, you wrote:
>
> DB> Really depends on a lot of things.
>
> DB> 1.What router are you using?
> DB> 2. Are you taking full tables from all of your upstreams?
> DB> 3. Are you not using BFD ?
> DB> 4.  What version of RouterOS are you using?
>
> DB> V7 will be faster, 2216 will be faster than a 1036, your hold time is
> kinda long..
>
>
> DB> Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> DB> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP
> Certified
> DB> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
> DB> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> DB> Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
> DB> Need to Automate MikroTik Backups:  https://cloud.linktechs.net
> DB> Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com
>
> DB> -Original Message-
> DB> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka
> Technologies
> DB> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:48 AM
> DB> To: af@af.afmug.com
> DB> Subject: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>
> DB> We have two circuits coming into our NOC.  We peer with 3 different
> providers on each circuit.  If a circuit fails, BGP will do it's magic and
> traffic will start flowing though the surviving circuit.
>
> DB> However, we seemed to get about 5 - 10 minutes of unstable Internet
> while this is happening.  Is this normal? If not, what can I do to speed up
> the process?  Is it a function of my routers having to rebuild routes?
> Will new faster routers help?  Is it a function of timers?  Keep-Alive is
> 30s and hold is at 90s.  Should I investigate BFD?
>
> DB> How fast could I expect to get this fail-over to work under best
> conditions?
>
> DB> Thanks,
> DB>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> DB> Myakka Communications
> DB>
> https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=www.Myakka.com=08E7599C-F9B1-CC05-BF9C-94CA5B14AB1B=079c058f437b7c6303d36c6513e5e8848d0c5ac4-1a5796e3447e2e1707012b957aa10dd6970458d5
>
>
> DB> --
> DB> AF mailing list
> DB> AF@af.afmug.com
> DB> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug

[Josh Luthman]

Dropping ***ALL*** input except what you need to access the router from
good hosts.

It doesn't matter if the service is listening or not, firewall it.  It
doesn't matter if you've restricted IPs on the service, firewall it.

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 2:30 PM Alex Kessler 
wrote:

> What needs changed with the firewall?
>
>
> On 4/12/2023 9:27 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Input firewall seems to be the right answer.  Not updating.
>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 6:59 PM Alex Kessler 
> wrote:
>
>> Been experiencing this bug for years while running NAT and connection
>> tracking.  Rebooting every few months while running v6 latest.  Does v7
>> have any known fixes to resolve these watchdog reboots?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Colin Stanners" < cstanners at gmail.com >
>> To: "af" < af at af.afmug.com >
>> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:59:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations
>>
>> This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being
>> rock-solid to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100%
>> CPU usage, which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case,
>> tools->profile would show the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after
>> temporarily disabling all firewall filter and NAT rules and connection
>> tracking. Not fun.
>>
>> MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly
>> recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or
>> to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem
>> or nature of the fix).
>>
>> Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney < steve at wavedirect.org >
>> wrote:
>> MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years. Until this year and the
>> 1072's. Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's. Some
>> more than others. Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem
>> exactly. Its a connection tracking issue.. however I need connection
>> tracking on one particular router. I've adjusted everything I could.
>> Firmware and board firmware all up to date etc. Happens randomly with low
>> levels of traffic, high levels of traffic, sometimes a couple times a day,
>> sometimes weeks. No DDOS evidence at all from upstream routers. Configs
>> checked and rechecked by third party experts. I graph everything about the
>> Mikrotik and there are no clues or anything abnormal happening before the
>> crash. Plenty of memory, disk space, CPU etc. Replaces all the trannies,
>> power cables and such. Not running BGP only OSPF on the one that is giving
>> me the most trouble.
>>
>> Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and set
>> it to log pretty much everything to console including the kernel and
>> nothing. A hard freeze.
>>
>> Then there is Mikrotik support... I've never needed their support before
>> until now. So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm getting from
>> them seems like they KNOW there is something wrong with the hardware and
>> they are intentionally not being helpful. It is pretty clear to see with
>> all the people reporting this issue that there IS an issue.
>>
>> If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik on
>> the newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an enterprise
>> level system. Juniper most likely. Shame because they are just about
>> keeping up with the demands with their hardware. Getting closer to 100Gbps
>> etc and ROS7 ... but at their current pace I think we've outgrew them.
>>
>> All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when it
>> comes to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help troubleshoot. I
>> think they know they had bad hardware out there and do not want to honor
>> warranties. I've heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's.
>>
>> Anyone else encounter this?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Alex*
>> Alex Kessler / TECHNICAL OPERATIONS CENTER
>> *O (Ohio)* 740.212.3773 / *O (All other markets)* 888.966.5690 / 145 Columbus
>> Rd, Athens, OH 45701 / point-broadband.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> <https://point-broadband.com/>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug

[Josh Luthman]

Then why did mine have a kernel panic when there is no connection
tracking?  Why is it solved with significantly more traffic and only
changing the firewall?

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 11:46 AM Trey Scarborough  wrote:

> Its a known hardware issue with connection tracking enabled and hardware
> offload. It has a hard limit to the number of connections it supports that
> is pretty low. Its high enough you won't notice till you get significant
> traffic, but low enough it is a common issue. The fix is to turn off
> connection tracking I know this isn't the best solution, but its the only
> one that works. This and the hardware availability of the processor are the
> reason they are discontinued. The good news is that moving over to the
> newer generation seems to resolve this, but comes with a handful of version
> 7 quirks.
> On 4/11/2023 5:55 PM, Alex Kessler wrote:
>
> Been experiencing this bug for years while running NAT and connection
> tracking.  Rebooting every few months while running v6 latest.  Does v7
> have any known fixes to resolve these watchdog reboots?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
> From: "Colin Stanners" < cstanners at gmail.com >
> To: "af" < af at af.afmug.com >
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:59:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations
>
> This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being
> rock-solid to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100%
> CPU usage, which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case,
> tools->profile would show the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after
> temporarily disabling all firewall filter and NAT rules and connection
> tracking. Not fun.
>
> MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly
> recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or
> to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem
> or nature of the fix).
>
> Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney < steve at wavedirect.org >
> wrote:
> MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years. Until this year and the
> 1072's. Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's. Some
> more than others. Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem
> exactly. Its a connection tracking issue.. however I need connection
> tracking on one particular router. I've adjusted everything I could.
> Firmware and board firmware all up to date etc. Happens randomly with low
> levels of traffic, high levels of traffic, sometimes a couple times a day,
> sometimes weeks. No DDOS evidence at all from upstream routers. Configs
> checked and rechecked by third party experts. I graph everything about the
> Mikrotik and there are no clues or anything abnormal happening before the
> crash. Plenty of memory, disk space, CPU etc. Replaces all the trannies,
> power cables and such. Not running BGP only OSPF on the one that is giving
> me the most trouble.
>
> Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and set
> it to log pretty much everything to console including the kernel and
> nothing. A hard freeze.
>
> Then there is Mikrotik support... I've never needed their support before
> until now. So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm getting from
> them seems like they KNOW there is something wrong with the hardware and
> they are intentionally not being helpful. It is pretty clear to see with
> all the people reporting this issue that there IS an issue.
>
> If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik on
> the newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an enterprise
> level system. Juniper most likely. Shame because they are just about
> keeping up with the demands with their hardware. Getting closer to 100Gbps
> etc and ROS7 ... but at their current pace I think we've outgrew them.
>
> All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when it
> comes to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help troubleshoot. I
> think they know they had bad hardware out there and do not want to honor
> warranties. I've heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's.
>
> Anyone else encounter this?
>
>
> --
>
> *Alex*
> Alex Kessler / TECHNICAL OPERATIONS CENTER
> *O (Ohio)* 740.212.3773 / *O (All other markets)* 888.966.5690 / 145 Columbus
> Rd, Athens, OH 45701 / point-broadband.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug

[Josh Luthman]

Input firewall seems to be the right answer.  Not updating.

On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 6:59 PM Alex Kessler 
wrote:

> Been experiencing this bug for years while running NAT and connection
> tracking.  Rebooting every few months while running v6 latest.  Does v7
> have any known fixes to resolve these watchdog reboots?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
> From: "Colin Stanners" < cstanners at gmail.com >
> To: "af" < af at af.afmug.com >
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:59:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations
>
> This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being
> rock-solid to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100%
> CPU usage, which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case,
> tools->profile would show the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after
> temporarily disabling all firewall filter and NAT rules and connection
> tracking. Not fun.
>
> MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly
> recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or
> to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem
> or nature of the fix).
>
> Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney < steve at wavedirect.org >
> wrote:
> MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years. Until this year and the
> 1072's. Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's. Some
> more than others. Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem
> exactly. Its a connection tracking issue.. however I need connection
> tracking on one particular router. I've adjusted everything I could.
> Firmware and board firmware all up to date etc. Happens randomly with low
> levels of traffic, high levels of traffic, sometimes a couple times a day,
> sometimes weeks. No DDOS evidence at all from upstream routers. Configs
> checked and rechecked by third party experts. I graph everything about the
> Mikrotik and there are no clues or anything abnormal happening before the
> crash. Plenty of memory, disk space, CPU etc. Replaces all the trannies,
> power cables and such. Not running BGP only OSPF on the one that is giving
> me the most trouble.
>
> Even have a serial console cable plugged into them to my opengear and set
> it to log pretty much everything to console including the kernel and
> nothing. A hard freeze.
>
> Then there is Mikrotik support... I've never needed their support before
> until now. So I put a ticket in and the shitty attitude I'm getting from
> them seems like they KNOW there is something wrong with the hardware and
> they are intentionally not being helpful. It is pretty clear to see with
> all the people reporting this issue that there IS an issue.
>
> If this is any indication of how things are going to go with Mikrotik on
> the newer hardware going forware I think its time to jump to an enterprise
> level system. Juniper most likely. Shame because they are just about
> keeping up with the demands with their hardware. Getting closer to 100Gbps
> etc and ROS7 ... but at their current pace I think we've outgrew them.
>
> All the threads discussing this issue has been absolutely quiet when it
> comes to Mikrotik jumping in to mention or try to help troubleshoot. I
> think they know they had bad hardware out there and do not want to honor
> warranties. I've heard rumors of bad batches of 1072's.
>
> Anyone else encounter this?
>
>
> --
>
> *Alex*
> Alex Kessler / TECHNICAL OPERATIONS CENTER
> *O (Ohio)* 740.212.3773 / *O (All other markets)* 888.966.5690 / 145 Columbus
> Rd, Athens, OH 45701 / point-broadband.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo

[Josh Luthman]

Ouch :(

On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 7:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> We lost a tower on the edge of our network but had lost most of the
> customers to competing fiber anyway.  This area has been overrun by an
> Electric co-op.
>
> - Reply message -----
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Yo yo
> Date: Tue, Apr 4, 2023 8:12 AM
>
> I'm actually impressed you have time for the list!  People were just
> screwed over the weekend down there :(
>
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 12:56 AM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Must protect the children.lol
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Cc: 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Yo yo
>> Date: Mon, Apr 3, 2023 10:16 PM
>>
>> The white house is having me suppress content
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 3, 2023 7:12 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo
>>
>> I was actually thinking this message got scrubbed from the list for
>> having a pic attached, looks like it actually made it! I'm alive-ish =) we
>> are having 50mph winds here in California, just had a tree fall on 7.2kv
>> lines by my house, made such a horrid noise I thought my AC compressor was
>> exploding!
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 4:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Y'all out there ?  Awful quiet
>>>
>>> - Reply message -
>>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] FS: EZ RJ45s  Crimpers
>>> Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2023 10:00 AM
>>>
>>> I ordered a ton of connectors and crimpers during the shortage and I'm a
>>> bit overstocked now but luckily we got a volume discount if anyone needs
>>> any. We have used tens of thousands in our network and sold many more.
>>>
>>> Passthru/EZ, 50 micron gold with ground wire lug. The crimpers are
>>> really nice!
>>>
>>> 1000 utp cat5e ez $300
>>> 1000 ftp cat5e ez esd $400
>>> 1000 ftp cat6 ez esd staggered conductor $500
>>> Every 1,000 ordered includes 3 crimpers and 21 blades
>>>
>>> Free shipping if you pay via Zelle to t...@voltbb.com or +$25 for PayPal
>>> to t...@pcguys.us
>>> Include your shipping information in the payment memo
>>>
>>> -TJ
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thank you,
>>
>> TJ Trout
>> Volt Broadband
>> 209.480.3122 Cell
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug..com
>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo

[Josh Luthman]

I'm actually impressed you have time for the list!  People were just
screwed over the weekend down there :(

On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 12:56 AM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> Must protect the children.lol
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Cc: 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Yo yo
> Date: Mon, Apr 3, 2023 10:16 PM
>
> The white house is having me suppress content
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Monday, April 3, 2023 7:12 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo
>
> I was actually thinking this message got scrubbed from the list for having
> a pic attached, looks like it actually made it! I'm alive-ish =) we are
> having 50mph winds here in California, just had a tree fall on 7.2kv lines
> by my house, made such a horrid noise I thought my AC compressor was
> exploding!
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 4:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Y'all out there ?  Awful quiet
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] FS: EZ RJ45s  Crimpers
>> Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2023 10:00 AM
>>
>> I ordered a ton of connectors and crimpers during the shortage and I'm a
>> bit overstocked now but luckily we got a volume discount if anyone needs
>> any. We have used tens of thousands in our network and sold many more.
>>
>> Passthru/EZ, 50 micron gold with ground wire lug. The crimpers are really
>> nice!
>>
>> 1000 utp cat5e ez $300
>> 1000 ftp cat5e ez esd $400
>> 1000 ftp cat6 ez esd staggered conductor $500
>> Every 1,000 ordered includes 3 crimpers and 21 blades
>>
>> Free shipping if you pay via Zelle to t...@voltbb.com or +$25 for PayPal
>> to t...@pcguys.us
>> Include your shipping information in the payment memo
>>
>> -TJ
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> TJ Trout
> Volt Broadband
> 209.480.3122 Cell
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later

[Josh Luthman]

Well it's not Mexican food or anything, it's Taco Bell food.  But Baja
Blast is absolutely awesome.

On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 1:58 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Lots of places with real and much better tacos...I live in El Paso, not
> San Antonio!!!
>
> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023, 11:05 AM  wrote:
>
>> Why not?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 29, 2023 1:03 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later
>>
>>
>>
>> Nope...no hinges ever
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023, 8:52 AM  wrote:
>>
>> It is a work of art.
>>
>> Do you ever use finger duct with a hinged cover?  I find that a lot more
>> convenient, but wondering if there’s a reason not to use that on a panel
>> like this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2023 8:51 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the panel for the large enclosure I posted last week...
>>
>> Dual power supplies for redundancy...
>>
>> More shares to come.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later

[Josh Luthman]

You went to Taco Bell and didn't get Baja Blast?

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 1:05 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Thank you
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2023, 8:20 AM Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
>> Nice work as always.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2023 8:51 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Blank panel and and an hour later
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the panel for the large enclosure I posted last week...
>>
>> Dual power supplies for redundancy...
>>
>> More shares to come.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT deleting emails

[Josh Luthman]

I will start deleting when the quota is met.

[image: image.png]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 12:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> I archive my emails once a year into a folder named for the year.
> Has been invaluable hundreds of times.  I almost never delete a real
> email.
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2023 9:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> Delete messages? Are you one of those weirdos with a tidy email box?
>
> On Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 3:34 PM Craig House 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm here for the help I get from WISP guys and to give help if I can.  I
>> couldn't care less about your or anyone that opposes your views political
>> opinion.  If I want that I will go to social media.  If you cant be civil
>> to those that disagree with you your no better than the hate you espouse
>> the other side is full of.   I dont need to come here for that
>> divisiveness.  If all I'm doing is deleting messages then I dont see the
>> point in being here to search through the garbage for valuable insights.
>> Please know when to stop (usually after 4-5 others ask you nicely to)
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Jan-GAMs" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, March 25, 2023 2:37:42 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>>
>> Darin, the real challenge is the station the right-wingers watch.  FOX.
>> Documented liars, well documented liars.  They make shit up and present it
>> as fact.  This has been admitted to by their owner Murdock.  They make up
>> news just to drive their advertisement income.  Why the hell should anyone
>> watch that channel is beyond belief.  The problem is, this has been a known
>> factoid for years, FOX makes shit up and presents it as news.  Until
>> Congress makes laws concerning what a so-called "NEWS" channel can present
>> as truth and still have a license to broadcast, I'm never going to trust
>> any "NEWS" source.  Especially FOX.  Reagan did away with the "Fairness
>> Doctrine" back in the '80's, which more or less ended news reporting facts
>> and brought in news reporting as hype.  Facts and news have been at odds
>> since Roger Ailes left the Nixon WH and started up FOX news.  Real news may
>> never recover.
>> On 3/25/23 11:02, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Evan and others,
>>
>> You guys really are delusional if you don't see what the Republicans are
>> doing to strip away rights. At least call them out if you're going to vote
>> their way.
>>
>> Everything I shared were statements of fact easily verified with a Google
>> search with reputable sources.
>>
>> It's sad that I can share facts and then some want to shut down the
>> conversation. Is that because you don't want to be wrong or don't think
>> you're associated with people who hold more extreme views than you?
>>
>> I'm asking you not to be complicit in the hate that's in the republican
>> party. Speak out and tell your representatives to stop attacking people. Be
>> kind and empathetic.
>>
>> Evan, why are you worried about me for calling out hateful people? I'm
>> worried for you if you think that's wrong for me to do. You should be
>> against all the attacks on human rights too. I believe you and your wife,
>> Sandra, to be good people. But there are some on the right who would tell
>> your wife to go back to her country because they're xenophobic and racist.
>> Wouldn't that bother you if someone said that to your wife?
>>
>> Call out the bad that any party partakes in. During the Floyd riots, I
>> didn't agree with any violence or destruction of property and I'm in full
>> support of people being arrested who committed crimes. Same with the people
>> on January 6. But why does the right think January 6 was a peaceful tour
>> and no one should be arrested? It's hypocritical.
>>
>> Same with law enforcement. We shouldn't support any profession
>> unconditionally. That's dangerous. I support good cops but think we should
>> hold bad ones accountable. This is all common sense stuff but the right
>> thinks all cops are good which is false. There's bad people in every
>> profession so let's weed them out. I have some sick friends and family that
>> think the murder of George Floyd was justified, even after watching the
>> full video of him being suffocated!! Sick people with sick minds.
>>
>> The rest of the world watches our country with disgust that half the
>> people hate themselves and their country so much that they continue to vote
>> republican. The new republican party is far more different and extreme than
>> the old one, which was somewhat reasonable and bipartisan.
>>
>> There is no question that democrats are better for all people in terms of
>> human rights, equality, and protections against employers and corporations.
>> They pass more bills to protect people, the environment, and the world than
>> the right. That does NOT mean the party is perfect and that there aren't
>> shady politicians on 

Re: [AFMUG] OT:My 1974 picture...

[Josh Luthman]

Nice!

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 6:57 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> My daughter and her hubby took an old 74 picture of me with my old 4001
> Rickenbacher and superimposed over this cool background..
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness

[Josh Luthman]

I'm pretty skeptical when a bank tells me they don't see the transactions
attempting the account.  It's only happened a few times but it always seems
to be a second or third call with the customer to get it resolved and all
we do is complain it's still not working...

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> We are switching over to a debit/atm card to pay since they canceled every
> order since the 18th that was direct bank account draw.  The bank does not
> even see them attempting to hit the account.
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* James Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2023 11:13 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness
>
>
> FedEx is a joke.   When they get around to delivering (rarely when they
> say it will arrive) many of the packages are damaged.  Sam’s club ships
> everything via FedEx and they throw the boxes out the door of the truck and
> drive away.  Have had glass items smashed in multiple deliveries by FedEx.
>
>
>
> Lately though, it seems that everything from Amazon has been coming via
> USPS here.  In the past, we have had an many as 4 Amazon trucks deliver on
> the same day so maybe they’re reworking their system to have some
> efficiency?  I’ve seen 2 Amazon trucks following each other down rural
> roads around here many times.
>
>
>
> UPS has been my preferred delivery until recently.  They seem to be
> developing FedEx type of traits recently with damaged packages and things
> coming late but hopefully that’s something that won’t continue.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2023 9:31 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness
>
>
>
> Do you guys get delivery directly from Amazon trucks, or via
> USPS/UPS/common carrier?
>
> I order lots of things from Amazon and have no problems.  But almost
> everything is via Amazon delivery trucks.
>
> Now FedEx on the other hand.  If something requires a signature, it'll
> take an extra 2-3 days to get delivered.  Goes out on the truck, then back
> to the shop every day with no attempt at delivery until the driver must
> finally get mad enough to ring the doorbell.  Only if it needs a signature
> though, normal drop-off deliveries are fine.
>
> On 3/22/2023 8:38 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I got an email at 3AM saying they couldn't deliver anything and I should
> adjust my business hours.
>
>
>
> I have nothing for them to deliver.  All orders are delivered already.
>
>
>
> Maybe ChatGPT 2.0 is changing things not knowing what it's doing?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:37 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
> The robots are on strike!
>
> I've had amazon orders that tracking would say "it's out for delivery" and
> I got the mail truck on the camera driving right on by, not stopping.  The
> part had to be re-ordered.  This has happened twice this year.
>
> On 3/20/23 13:21, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> No payment issues here.  Maybe you and the employee have same type of
> credit card or some other commonality?
>
>
>
> Maybe not related, but I did receive an order last week that was an empty
> box.  Correct order number and the right size box, but nothing was in it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via
> AF
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2023 2:58 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness
>
>
>
> We have been having Amazon cancel orders.  Claiming problems with
> payment.  Just found out at lunch that it is happening with one of my
> employees as well.  Exact same thing.  Is this widespread?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness

[Josh Luthman]

I get all 3.  The last couple of years all 3 have been good.  Previously,
Fedex had some issues but nothing other than what you expect from them.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 11:18 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Do you guys get delivery directly from Amazon trucks, or via
> USPS/UPS/common carrier?
>
> I order lots of things from Amazon and have no problems.  But almost
> everything is via Amazon delivery trucks.
>
> Now FedEx on the other hand.  If something requires a signature, it'll
> take an extra 2-3 days to get delivered.  Goes out on the truck, then back
> to the shop every day with no attempt at delivery until the driver must
> finally get mad enough to ring the doorbell.  Only if it needs a signature
> though, normal drop-off deliveries are fine.
>
> On 3/22/2023 8:38 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I got an email at 3AM saying they couldn't deliver anything and I should
> adjust my business hours.
>
> I have nothing for them to deliver.  All orders are delivered already.
>
> Maybe ChatGPT 2.0 is changing things not knowing what it's doing?
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:37 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> The robots are on strike!
>>
>> I've had amazon orders that tracking would say "it's out for delivery"
>> and I got the mail truck on the camera driving right on by, not stopping.
>> The part had to be re-ordered.  This has happened twice this year.
>> On 3/20/23 13:21, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> No payment issues here.  Maybe you and the employee have same type of
>> credit card or some other commonality?
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe not related, but I did receive an order last week that was an empty
>> box.  Correct order number and the right size box, but nothing was in it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF 
>>  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2023 2:58 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown  
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness
>>
>>
>>
>> We have been having Amazon cancel orders.  Claiming problems with
>> payment.  Just found out at lunch that it is happening with one of my
>> employees as well.  Exact same thing.  Is this widespread?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness

[Josh Luthman]

I got an email at 3AM saying they couldn't deliver anything and I should
adjust my business hours.

I have nothing for them to deliver.  All orders are delivered already.

Maybe ChatGPT 2.0 is changing things not knowing what it's doing?

On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:37 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> The robots are on strike!
>
> I've had amazon orders that tracking would say "it's out for delivery" and
> I got the mail truck on the camera driving right on by, not stopping.  The
> part had to be re-ordered.  This has happened twice this year.
> On 3/20/23 13:21, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> No payment issues here.  Maybe you and the employee have same type of
> credit card or some other commonality?
>
>
>
> Maybe not related, but I did receive an order last week that was an empty
> box.  Correct order number and the right size box, but nothing was in it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2023 2:58 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown  
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness
>
>
>
> We have been having Amazon cancel orders.  Claiming problems with
> payment.  Just found out at lunch that it is happening with one of my
> employees as well.  Exact same thing.  Is this widespread?
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness

[Josh Luthman]

With you buying things on Amazon?  I've had 0 issues...ever...

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 3:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> We have been having Amazon cancel orders.  Claiming problems with
> payment.  Just found out at lunch that it is happening with one of my
> employees as well.  Exact same thing.  Is this widespread?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] New toy

[Josh Luthman]

Every single time you're near any wires at all?

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 10:33 AM  wrote:

> That would be new to me if I bought one.  I use my multimeter to test for
> live electric, and that’s sufficient for how often I need to do it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2023 9:40 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New toy
>
>
>
> WTF that is new to you?!?!?!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 8:13 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> We got a contract to install and wire power meters on 26 wells...working
> with high voltage...
>
> Not taking any chances...
>
> Peace
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] New toy

[Josh Luthman]

WTF that is new to you?!?!?!

On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 8:13 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> We got a contract to install and wire power meters on 26 wells...working
> with high voltage...
> Not taking any chances...
> Peace
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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