Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap?
I would second this suggestion I have used the MT in Ham bands as well.
You can add 2 cards in a RBM33G and run it in dual Nstream no need for
tdma protocol it makes one TX and one RX radio and have a single TX
chain with two RX chains for your diversity.
On 8/28/2018 10:31 AM, Colin Stanners wrote:
Our project is using Ubiquiti / Mikrotik 802.11A/G and sometimes N
equipment, international versions that can run in the ham bands. AREDN
seemed to lack a TDMA protocol last time I checked so wouldn't be good
for higher traffic cases or to keep low packet loss. I'm trying to
keep the space diversity in-radio as often the radios can switch
between streams in <1 second, while most networking designs that use
multiple radios for diversity (e.g. OSPF) can take seconds to a minute
to switch, in some fast-fade cases that can cause prolonged annoyance
due to constant switching.
On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 10:17 AM Brian Webster
mailto:i...@wirelessmapping.com>> wrote:
Which equipment are you using in the ham bands? Have you looked at
the AREDN project? https://www.arednmesh.org/ They use mostly
Ubiquiti gear with new firmware loads to move the radios to the
ham licensed portions of the bands away from unlicensed. The
rocket AP’s are one of the models that can load the firmware. Can
you achieve what you want by using multiple antennas on a rocket
AP? With the AREDN firmware the radios are cheap enough that you
could do frequency diversity by having both 5 GHz and 3.5 GHz
radios between the sites or if desired 2.4 GHz (in the licensed
ham portion of the band below unlicensed) or even 900 MHz (of
which ham are primary licensed over unlicensed users with a lot
more power allowed). I am a fan of the AREDN stuff because of the
clean spectrum available and that it doesn’t bother the WISP
deployments. We have been using it for short haul temp stuff like
remote video feeds on race courses for public safety events. It is
a true mesh platform so if your sites are able to see more than
one location from the tower and a particular link goes down, it
will re-route traffic on its own.
Thank You,
Brian Webster
*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2018 11:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial
diversity on the cheap?
In our province there is a wide-area analog voice ham repeater
system that's really old-fashioned; some of the radio gear is
older than I am. Some more progressive members are pushing to have
IP backhaul at all sites. The 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz
donated-wifi-gear-hacked-to-ham-frequencies group of which I'm a
main tech has started building a relatively impressive IP network
in the Winnipeg area and so I've been asked to prepare suggestions
for the 5.9Ghz IP backhaul upgrades.
The big cost difficulty is doing spatial diversity; there are many
longer links that will definitely require it for reliability
through the fade season. At my fulltime WISP job, if the budget is
$10-15K/link I'll just put in a PTP670 with spatial diversity or
11Ghz radios with 4ft dishes and things are great. But being a
nonprofit ham group, this entire project of a dozen+ links is
hoped to be <$10K at most (with some donations) for hardware...
That's a lot harder.
So I'm trying to find if there are any radios that are good at
spatial diversity like the Orthogons, but cheap (prefer
<$200/radio, $400 max?), and either support 5.9Ghz or are
"hackable" to it (while supporting ham requirements e.g. callsign
advertisement). Speed is not very important.
-PTP650/670 way out of price range, PTP450x, PTP550 too.
-AF5X did not do spatial diversity in my tests.
-AF5XHD I have never tested for SD, even if it does work the
radios are on the expensive side
-ePMP connectorized I like as a cost-effective platform, but it's
not advertised for spatial diversity, and the firmware had some
distance limits
-general Ubiquiti wi-fi I've never tested for spatial diversity
but is worth a try
-Mimosa platform I've never touched but probably worth researching.
-Orthogon PTP400s I've used extensively, they are cheap now (used)
and do spatial diversity great, but aren't hackable to 5.9Ghz. And
as the hardware gets old, there will be failures.
Any other suggestions?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
Trey Scarborough
VP Engineering
3DS Communications LLC
p:9729741539
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap?
Others have been using this network to link DMR repeaters successfully. Thank You, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 2:28 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap? This is for VoIP traffic for the repeaters so very little bandwidth but low latency, no packet loss, no hidden node is needed - TDMA is much preferable for that case. Contention-based wifi "probably works" but I try to avoid the word "probably" for such large projects, especially when I suspect that I will be doing a lot of the climbing. On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 12:32 PM Brian Webster wrote: If the bandwidth use is as low as you mentioned are the speeds and switching really that much of an issue. AREDN has recently changed management and there have been a lot of firmware upgrades in the last month or so. What would the purpose be for TDMA or are you talking about having a managed system controlled by the AP with time slots and such. If the ARDEN links you put up have enough bandwidth and you have controlled the number of transmitters on the various channel the mesh should work quite well. You won’t have so much hidden transmitter syndrome if the backbones can all hear each other that are on the same frequency. We were pushing 6o meg on a 3 way setup for video on a 10 MHz 2.4 channel without issue. These were short links but the 4 IP cameras all worked fine. We submitted an article to the ARRL and they published it here http://www.arrl.org/ares-el?issue=2018-07-18 Thank You, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 11:31 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap? Our project is using Ubiquiti / Mikrotik 802.11A/G and sometimes N equipment, international versions that can run in the ham bands. AREDN seemed to lack a TDMA protocol last time I checked so wouldn't be good for higher traffic cases or to keep low packet loss. I'm trying to keep the space diversity in-radio as often the radios can switch between streams in <1 second, while most networking designs that use multiple radios for diversity (e.g. OSPF) can take seconds to a minute to switch, in some fast-fade cases that can cause prolonged annoyance due to constant switching. On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 10:17 AM Brian Webster wrote: Which equipment are you using in the ham bands? Have you looked at the AREDN project? https://www.arednmesh.org/ They use mostly Ubiquiti gear with new firmware loads to move the radios to the ham licensed portions of the bands away from unlicensed. The rocket AP’s are one of the models that can load the firmware. Can you achieve what you want by using multiple antennas on a rocket AP? With the AREDN firmware the radios are cheap enough that you could do frequency diversity by having both 5 GHz and 3.5 GHz radios between the sites or if desired 2.4 GHz (in the licensed ham portion of the band below unlicensed) or even 900 MHz (of which ham are primary licensed over unlicensed users with a lot more power allowed). I am a fan of the AREDN stuff because of the clean spectrum available and that it doesn’t bother the WISP deployments. We have been using it for short haul temp stuff like remote video feeds on race courses for public safety events. It is a true mesh platform so if your sites are able to see more than one location from the tower and a particular link goes down, it will re-route traffic on its own. Thank You, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 11:53 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap? In our province there is a wide-area analog voice ham repeater system that's really old-fashioned; some of the radio gear is older than I am. Some more progressive members are pushing to have IP backhaul at all sites. The 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz donated-wifi-gear-hacked-to-ham-frequencies group of which I'm a main tech has started building a relatively impressive IP network in the Winnipeg area and so I've been asked to prepare suggestions for the 5.9Ghz IP backhaul upgrades. The big cost difficulty is doing spatial diversity; there are many longer links that will definitely require it for reliability through the fade season. At my fulltime WISP job, if the budget is $10-15K/link I'll just put in a PTP670 with spatial diversity or 11Ghz radios with 4ft dishes and things are great. But being a nonprofit ham group, this entire project of a dozen+ links is hoped to be <$10K at most (with some donations) for hardware... That's a lot harder. So I'm tryin
Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap?
Perhaps get some old 6 G stuff and modify it. Or just put up two totally separate systems and bond them. From: Colin Stanners Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 9:52 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap? In our province there is a wide-area analog voice ham repeater system that's really old-fashioned; some of the radio gear is older than I am. Some more progressive members are pushing to have IP backhaul at all sites. The 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz donated-wifi-gear-hacked-to-ham-frequencies group of which I'm a main tech has started building a relatively impressive IP network in the Winnipeg area and so I've been asked to prepare suggestions for the 5.9Ghz IP backhaul upgrades. The big cost difficulty is doing spatial diversity; there are many longer links that will definitely require it for reliability through the fade season. At my fulltime WISP job, if the budget is $10-15K/link I'll just put in a PTP670 with spatial diversity or 11Ghz radios with 4ft dishes and things are great. But being a nonprofit ham group, this entire project of a dozen+ links is hoped to be <$10K at most (with some donations) for hardware... That's a lot harder. So I'm trying to find if there are any radios that are good at spatial diversity like the Orthogons, but cheap (prefer <$200/radio, $400 max?), and either support 5.9Ghz or are "hackable" to it (while supporting ham requirements e.g. callsign advertisement). Speed is not very important. -PTP650/670 way out of price range, PTP450x, PTP550 too. -AF5X did not do spatial diversity in my tests. -AF5XHD I have never tested for SD, even if it does work the radios are on the expensive side -ePMP connectorized I like as a cost-effective platform, but it's not advertised for spatial diversity, and the firmware had some distance limits -general Ubiquiti wi-fi I've never tested for spatial diversity but is worth a try -Mimosa platform I've never touched but probably worth researching. -Orthogon PTP400s I've used extensively, they are cheap now (used) and do spatial diversity great, but aren't hackable to 5.9Ghz. And as the hardware gets old, there will be failures. Any other suggestions? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap?
If the bandwidth use is as low as you mentioned are the speeds and switching really that much of an issue. AREDN has recently changed management and there have been a lot of firmware upgrades in the last month or so. What would the purpose be for TDMA or are you talking about having a managed system controlled by the AP with time slots and such. If the ARDEN links you put up have enough bandwidth and you have controlled the number of transmitters on the various channel the mesh should work quite well. You won’t have so much hidden transmitter syndrome if the backbones can all hear each other that are on the same frequency. We were pushing 6o meg on a 3 way setup for video on a 10 MHz 2.4 channel without issue. These were short links but the 4 IP cameras all worked fine. We submitted an article to the ARRL and they published it here http://www.arrl.org/ares-el?issue=2018-07-18 Thank You, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 11:31 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap? Our project is using Ubiquiti / Mikrotik 802.11A/G and sometimes N equipment, international versions that can run in the ham bands. AREDN seemed to lack a TDMA protocol last time I checked so wouldn't be good for higher traffic cases or to keep low packet loss. I'm trying to keep the space diversity in-radio as often the radios can switch between streams in <1 second, while most networking designs that use multiple radios for diversity (e.g. OSPF) can take seconds to a minute to switch, in some fast-fade cases that can cause prolonged annoyance due to constant switching. On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 10:17 AM Brian Webster wrote: Which equipment are you using in the ham bands? Have you looked at the AREDN project? https://www.arednmesh.org/ They use mostly Ubiquiti gear with new firmware loads to move the radios to the ham licensed portions of the bands away from unlicensed. The rocket AP’s are one of the models that can load the firmware. Can you achieve what you want by using multiple antennas on a rocket AP? With the AREDN firmware the radios are cheap enough that you could do frequency diversity by having both 5 GHz and 3.5 GHz radios between the sites or if desired 2.4 GHz (in the licensed ham portion of the band below unlicensed) or even 900 MHz (of which ham are primary licensed over unlicensed users with a lot more power allowed). I am a fan of the AREDN stuff because of the clean spectrum available and that it doesn’t bother the WISP deployments. We have been using it for short haul temp stuff like remote video feeds on race courses for public safety events. It is a true mesh platform so if your sites are able to see more than one location from the tower and a particular link goes down, it will re-route traffic on its own. Thank You, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 11:53 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap? In our province there is a wide-area analog voice ham repeater system that's really old-fashioned; some of the radio gear is older than I am. Some more progressive members are pushing to have IP backhaul at all sites. The 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz donated-wifi-gear-hacked-to-ham-frequencies group of which I'm a main tech has started building a relatively impressive IP network in the Winnipeg area and so I've been asked to prepare suggestions for the 5.9Ghz IP backhaul upgrades. The big cost difficulty is doing spatial diversity; there are many longer links that will definitely require it for reliability through the fade season. At my fulltime WISP job, if the budget is $10-15K/link I'll just put in a PTP670 with spatial diversity or 11Ghz radios with 4ft dishes and things are great. But being a nonprofit ham group, this entire project of a dozen+ links is hoped to be <$10K at most (with some donations) for hardware... That's a lot harder. So I'm trying to find if there are any radios that are good at spatial diversity like the Orthogons, but cheap (prefer <$200/radio, $400 max?), and either support 5.9Ghz or are "hackable" to it (while supporting ham requirements e.g. callsign advertisement). Speed is not very important. -PTP650/670 way out of price range, PTP450x, PTP550 too. -AF5X did not do spatial diversity in my tests. -AF5XHD I have never tested for SD, even if it does work the radios are on the expensive side -ePMP connectorized I like as a cost-effective platform, but it's not advertised for spatial diversity, and the firmware had some distance limits -general Ubiquiti wi-fi I've never tested for spatial diversity but is worth a try -Mimosa platform I've never touched
Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap?
Our project is using Ubiquiti / Mikrotik 802.11A/G and sometimes N equipment, international versions that can run in the ham bands. AREDN seemed to lack a TDMA protocol last time I checked so wouldn't be good for higher traffic cases or to keep low packet loss. I'm trying to keep the space diversity in-radio as often the radios can switch between streams in <1 second, while most networking designs that use multiple radios for diversity (e.g. OSPF) can take seconds to a minute to switch, in some fast-fade cases that can cause prolonged annoyance due to constant switching. On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 10:17 AM Brian Webster wrote: > Which equipment are you using in the ham bands? Have you looked at the > AREDN project? https://www.arednmesh.org/ They use mostly Ubiquiti gear > with new firmware loads to move the radios to the ham licensed portions of > the bands away from unlicensed. The rocket AP’s are one of the models that > can load the firmware. Can you achieve what you want by using multiple > antennas on a rocket AP? With the AREDN firmware the radios are cheap > enough that you could do frequency diversity by having both 5 GHz and 3.5 > GHz radios between the sites or if desired 2.4 GHz (in the licensed ham > portion of the band below unlicensed) or even 900 MHz (of which ham are > primary licensed over unlicensed users with a lot more power allowed). I am > a fan of the AREDN stuff because of the clean spectrum available and that > it doesn’t bother the WISP deployments. We have been using it for short > haul temp stuff like remote video feeds on race courses for public safety > events. It is a true mesh platform so if your sites are able to see more > than one location from the tower and a particular link goes down, it will > re-route traffic on its own. > > > > > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > > > *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners > *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2018 11:53 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity > on the cheap? > > > > In our province there is a wide-area analog voice ham repeater system > that's really old-fashioned; some of the radio gear is older than I am. > Some more progressive members are pushing to have IP backhaul at all sites. > The 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz donated-wifi-gear-hacked-to-ham-frequencies group of > which I'm a main tech has started building a relatively impressive IP > network in the Winnipeg area and so I've been asked to prepare suggestions > for the 5.9Ghz IP backhaul upgrades. > > > > The big cost difficulty is doing spatial diversity; there are many longer > links that will definitely require it for reliability through the fade > season. At my fulltime WISP job, if the budget is $10-15K/link I'll just > put in a PTP670 with spatial diversity or 11Ghz radios with 4ft dishes and > things are great. But being a nonprofit ham group, this entire project of a > dozen+ links is hoped to be <$10K at most (with some donations) for > hardware... That's a lot harder. > > > > So I'm trying to find if there are any radios that are good at spatial > diversity like the Orthogons, but cheap (prefer <$200/radio, $400 max?), > and either support 5.9Ghz or are "hackable" to it (while supporting ham > requirements e.g. callsign advertisement). Speed is not very important. > > -PTP650/670 way out of price range, PTP450x, PTP550 too. > > -AF5X did not do spatial diversity in my tests. > > -AF5XHD I have never tested for SD, even if it does work the radios are on > the expensive side > > -ePMP connectorized I like as a cost-effective platform, but it's not > advertised for spatial diversity, and the firmware had some distance limits > > -general Ubiquiti wi-fi I've never tested for spatial diversity but is > worth a try > > -Mimosa platform I've never touched but probably worth researching. > > -Orthogon PTP400s I've used extensively, they are cheap now (used) and do > spatial diversity great, but aren't hackable to 5.9Ghz. And as the hardware > gets old, there will be failures. > > > > Any other suggestions? > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap?
a lot of commercial gear can go to 5.9ghz if you contact the manufacture and tell them you are using it for HAM purposes they will send you special firmware On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 11:17 AM Brian Webster wrote: > Which equipment are you using in the ham bands? Have you looked at the > AREDN project? https://www.arednmesh.org/ They use mostly Ubiquiti gear > with new firmware loads to move the radios to the ham licensed portions of > the bands away from unlicensed. The rocket AP’s are one of the models that > can load the firmware. Can you achieve what you want by using multiple > antennas on a rocket AP? With the AREDN firmware the radios are cheap > enough that you could do frequency diversity by having both 5 GHz and 3.5 > GHz radios between the sites or if desired 2.4 GHz (in the licensed ham > portion of the band below unlicensed) or even 900 MHz (of which ham are > primary licensed over unlicensed users with a lot more power allowed). I am > a fan of the AREDN stuff because of the clean spectrum available and that > it doesn’t bother the WISP deployments. We have been using it for short > haul temp stuff like remote video feeds on race courses for public safety > events. It is a true mesh platform so if your sites are able to see more > than one location from the tower and a particular link goes down, it will > re-route traffic on its own. > > > > > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > > > *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners > *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2018 11:53 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity > on the cheap? > > > > In our province there is a wide-area analog voice ham repeater system > that's really old-fashioned; some of the radio gear is older than I am. > Some more progressive members are pushing to have IP backhaul at all sites. > The 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz donated-wifi-gear-hacked-to-ham-frequencies group of > which I'm a main tech has started building a relatively impressive IP > network in the Winnipeg area and so I've been asked to prepare suggestions > for the 5.9Ghz IP backhaul upgrades. > > > > The big cost difficulty is doing spatial diversity; there are many longer > links that will definitely require it for reliability through the fade > season. At my fulltime WISP job, if the budget is $10-15K/link I'll just > put in a PTP670 with spatial diversity or 11Ghz radios with 4ft dishes and > things are great. But being a nonprofit ham group, this entire project of a > dozen+ links is hoped to be <$10K at most (with some donations) for > hardware... That's a lot harder. > > > > So I'm trying to find if there are any radios that are good at spatial > diversity like the Orthogons, but cheap (prefer <$200/radio, $400 max?), > and either support 5.9Ghz or are "hackable" to it (while supporting ham > requirements e.g. callsign advertisement). Speed is not very important. > > -PTP650/670 way out of price range, PTP450x, PTP550 too. > > -AF5X did not do spatial diversity in my tests. > > -AF5XHD I have never tested for SD, even if it does work the radios are on > the expensive side > > -ePMP connectorized I like as a cost-effective platform, but it's not > advertised for spatial diversity, and the firmware had some distance limits > > -general Ubiquiti wi-fi I've never tested for spatial diversity but is > worth a try > > -Mimosa platform I've never touched but probably worth researching. > > -Orthogon PTP400s I've used extensively, they are cheap now (used) and do > spatial diversity great, but aren't hackable to 5.9Ghz. And as the hardware > gets old, there will be failures. > > > > Any other suggestions? > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap?
Which equipment are you using in the ham bands? Have you looked at the AREDN project? https://www.arednmesh.org/ They use mostly Ubiquiti gear with new firmware loads to move the radios to the ham licensed portions of the bands away from unlicensed. The rocket AP’s are one of the models that can load the firmware. Can you achieve what you want by using multiple antennas on a rocket AP? With the AREDN firmware the radios are cheap enough that you could do frequency diversity by having both 5 GHz and 3.5 GHz radios between the sites or if desired 2.4 GHz (in the licensed ham portion of the band below unlicensed) or even 900 MHz (of which ham are primary licensed over unlicensed users with a lot more power allowed). I am a fan of the AREDN stuff because of the clean spectrum available and that it doesn’t bother the WISP deployments. We have been using it for short haul temp stuff like remote video feeds on race courses for public safety events. It is a true mesh platform so if your sites are able to see more than one location from the tower and a particular link goes down, it will re-route traffic on its own. Thank You, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Colin Stanners Sent: Monday, August 27, 2018 11:53 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap? In our province there is a wide-area analog voice ham repeater system that's really old-fashioned; some of the radio gear is older than I am. Some more progressive members are pushing to have IP backhaul at all sites. The 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz donated-wifi-gear-hacked-to-ham-frequencies group of which I'm a main tech has started building a relatively impressive IP network in the Winnipeg area and so I've been asked to prepare suggestions for the 5.9Ghz IP backhaul upgrades. The big cost difficulty is doing spatial diversity; there are many longer links that will definitely require it for reliability through the fade season. At my fulltime WISP job, if the budget is $10-15K/link I'll just put in a PTP670 with spatial diversity or 11Ghz radios with 4ft dishes and things are great. But being a nonprofit ham group, this entire project of a dozen+ links is hoped to be <$10K at most (with some donations) for hardware... That's a lot harder. So I'm trying to find if there are any radios that are good at spatial diversity like the Orthogons, but cheap (prefer <$200/radio, $400 max?), and either support 5.9Ghz or are "hackable" to it (while supporting ham requirements e.g. callsign advertisement). Speed is not very important. -PTP650/670 way out of price range, PTP450x, PTP550 too. -AF5X did not do spatial diversity in my tests. -AF5XHD I have never tested for SD, even if it does work the radios are on the expensive side -ePMP connectorized I like as a cost-effective platform, but it's not advertised for spatial diversity, and the firmware had some distance limits -general Ubiquiti wi-fi I've never tested for spatial diversity but is worth a try -Mimosa platform I've never touched but probably worth researching. -Orthogon PTP400s I've used extensively, they are cheap now (used) and do spatial diversity great, but aren't hackable to 5.9Ghz. And as the hardware gets old, there will be failures. Any other suggestions? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] 5.8Ghz / hackable 5.9Ghz (for hams) spatial diversity on the cheap?
In our province there is a wide-area analog voice ham repeater system that's really old-fashioned; some of the radio gear is older than I am. Some more progressive members are pushing to have IP backhaul at all sites. The 2.3Ghz / 5.9Ghz donated-wifi-gear-hacked-to-ham-frequencies group of which I'm a main tech has started building a relatively impressive IP network in the Winnipeg area and so I've been asked to prepare suggestions for the 5.9Ghz IP backhaul upgrades. The big cost difficulty is doing spatial diversity; there are many longer links that will definitely require it for reliability through the fade season. At my fulltime WISP job, if the budget is $10-15K/link I'll just put in a PTP670 with spatial diversity or 11Ghz radios with 4ft dishes and things are great. But being a nonprofit ham group, this entire project of a dozen+ links is hoped to be <$10K at most (with some donations) for hardware... That's a lot harder. So I'm trying to find if there are any radios that are good at spatial diversity like the Orthogons, but cheap (prefer <$200/radio, $400 max?), and either support 5.9Ghz or are "hackable" to it (while supporting ham requirements e.g. callsign advertisement). Speed is not very important. -PTP650/670 way out of price range, PTP450x, PTP550 too. -AF5X did not do spatial diversity in my tests. -AF5XHD I have never tested for SD, even if it does work the radios are on the expensive side -ePMP connectorized I like as a cost-effective platform, but it's not advertised for spatial diversity, and the firmware had some distance limits -general Ubiquiti wi-fi I've never tested for spatial diversity but is worth a try -Mimosa platform I've never touched but probably worth researching. -Orthogon PTP400s I've used extensively, they are cheap now (used) and do spatial diversity great, but aren't hackable to 5.9Ghz. And as the hardware gets old, there will be failures. Any other suggestions? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
