Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
whereasmost other forms of payment are not. Banks can reach into most forms of payment and reverse them on their whim, checks are another story when they are written on a valid account and accepted by the bank. All that may have yet another iteration with the last changes by congress. They changes before that were very fair to both sides.. On 6/29/18 6:52 AM, Larry Smith wrote: Checks are a very outdated method for payment May be, but under US Law (Uniform Commercial Code) a check is a "promisary note" and as such a contract to pay. You can easily take someone to court over a bounced or bad check. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
That sounds more reasonable. If it's all automated, I can see it being a big money saver, but if you are a small operation and have to have someone checking on it every day, it may be more of a time and convenience issue. I haven't looked at Freeside in quite some time, but I don't think it did this out of the box back then. On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 10:33 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: > I checked on this with the guy who actually did it for me. It turns out > that our gateway and our bank turned over our ACH rejects to a collection > deal automatically. Maybe that is why our problems were so low. They would > start collections immediately. We had a ton of businesses on it as well. > The software was Freeside and we had customer work done all the time on > that tar trap mess of a program. I could swear that we had some API or > import for that. Maybe I am dreaming. Maybe we had some clerk somewhere > typing away. > > I do remember that we averaged only one or two ACH rejects a month. The > numbers I quote aren't made up as they are approximates from our billing > back then. Once the numbers get decently large you would have to have a TON > of issues to make up the fee differences between ACH and CC. It literally > paid for 2 installers and a supervisor's pay. > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:23 AM Cameron Crum wrote: > >> I'm curious how your software knew of the bounced ach? I know with IPPay >> they didn't have a way to report this back to the software until fairly >> recently. What processor were you using? Or was it just someone checking >> every day as part of their job? >> >> >> Cameron >> >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:52 AM, Larry Smith wrote: >> >>> > Checks are a very outdated method for payment >>> >>> May be, but under US Law (Uniform Commercial Code) >>> a check is a "promisary note" and as such a contract to pay. >>> You can easily take someone to court over a bounced or bad >>> check. >>> >>> -- >>> Larry Smith >>> lesm...@ecsis.net >>> >>> On Fri June 29 2018 08:43, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> > Oh yes, we have people complain all the time that they went to the >>> bank and >>> > sent a check out but we never got it for another two weeks or so. >>> > >>> > We also have people who say that their checks got lost in the mail or >>> we >>> > get an envelope that was never sealed. >>> > >>> > Yet another reason why I tell people that the credit card payment >>> method is >>> > much more secure than checks. >>> > >>> > Checks are a very outdated method for payment >>> > >>> > > On Jun 29, 2018, at 09:38, Lewis Bergman >>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe >>> yours >>> > > isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce >>> policies >>> > > that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a >>> > > result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer >>> base on >>> > > ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why >>> people >>> > > do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5 >>> times >>> > > worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint. >>> But, it >>> > > really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because the >>> > > software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was >>> significantly >>> > > different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment >>> because a >>> > > bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check >>> printing >>> > > service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different >>> > > accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account >>> number, >>> > > and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came >>> in >>> > > about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week >>> > > ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show >>> them >>> > > the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they >>> took >>> > > the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if >>> they >>> > > let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could >>> > > never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But >>> > > again, our experiences seem to be quite different. >>> > > >>> > > I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think >>> we >>> > > ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't >>> > > remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was >>> roughly >>> > > the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. >>> > > >>> > > In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't >>> have to >>> > > do it like you and vice versa. >>> > > >>> > >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes >>> > >> wrote: It’s just the cost of >>> doing >>> > >> business. >>> > >> >>> > >> And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. >>> > >> >>> > >> We have a small handful
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
I think your comment about a "general cross section" of customers hits the nail on the head as to why there are different experiences on this. The demographics of the area may play a role as well. If you let the customer choose between ACH or CC, they'll choose CC because it's safer and more convenient for them. The person who chooses ACH when given the option is someone who can't get credit cards or someone who has learned how to play games with checks. Just my 2c. I do believe you that ACH was cheaper in the long run, but back when I was more directly involved in billing ACH rejections were a very regular occurrence and the service we used charged a fee for each incident. We passed the fee onto the customer and most of them would find another way to pay after the first couple times. It was more about not wanting to deal with the hassle than anything else. CC either declined or passed and that was it. One and done. I only recall one guy who disputed a CC charge. -- Original Message -- From: "Lewis Bergman" To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Sent: 6/29/2018 9:38:05 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe yours isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce policies that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer base on ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why people do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5 times worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint. But, it really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because the software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was significantly different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment because a bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check printing service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account number, and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came in about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show them the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they took the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if they let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But again, our experiences seem to be quite different. I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think we ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was roughly the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't have to do it like you and vice versa. On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes wrote: It’s just the cost of doing business. And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced transactions that occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting a credit card transactions. On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman wrote: If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. CC is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up to about 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost an additional 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 years is less than 10k in one month. So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and can't wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate that is enormous. If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers not yours. I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. Maybe that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple of weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has ever happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened every year one time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my money back, I would still be better off using ACH. But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... 60 days for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank takes the money back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the same as someone's ACH not clearing. On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes wrote: ACH is slow (2 days to clear) ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) ACH can w
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
Yeah, propay has had it for a while I know. I was just curious about what Lewis was using. That was a few years back. On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Adair Winter wrote: > Propay and powercode does auto ach bounce back > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 9:23 AM Cameron Crum wrote: > >> I'm curious how your software knew of the bounced ach? I know with IPPay >> they didn't have a way to report this back to the software until fairly >> recently. What processor were you using? Or was it just someone checking >> every day as part of their job? >> >> Cameron >> >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:52 AM, Larry Smith wrote: >> >>> > Checks are a very outdated method for payment >>> >>> May be, but under US Law (Uniform Commercial Code) >>> a check is a "promisary note" and as such a contract to pay. >>> You can easily take someone to court over a bounced or bad >>> check. >>> >>> -- >>> Larry Smith >>> lesm...@ecsis.net >>> >>> On Fri June 29 2018 08:43, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>> > Oh yes, we have people complain all the time that they went to the >>> bank and >>> > sent a check out but we never got it for another two weeks or so. >>> > >>> > We also have people who say that their checks got lost in the mail or >>> we >>> > get an envelope that was never sealed. >>> > >>> > Yet another reason why I tell people that the credit card payment >>> method is >>> > much more secure than checks. >>> > >>> > Checks are a very outdated method for payment >>> > >>> > > On Jun 29, 2018, at 09:38, Lewis Bergman >>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe >>> yours >>> > > isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce >>> policies >>> > > that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a >>> > > result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer >>> base on >>> > > ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why >>> people >>> > > do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5 >>> times >>> > > worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint. >>> But, it >>> > > really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because the >>> > > software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was >>> significantly >>> > > different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment >>> because a >>> > > bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check >>> printing >>> > > service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different >>> > > accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account >>> number, >>> > > and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came >>> in >>> > > about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week >>> > > ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show >>> them >>> > > the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they >>> took >>> > > the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if >>> they >>> > > let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could >>> > > never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But >>> > > again, our experiences seem to be quite different. >>> > > >>> > > I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think >>> we >>> > > ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't >>> > > remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was >>> roughly >>> > > the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. >>> > > >>> > > In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't >>> have to >>> > > do it like you and vice versa. >>> > > >>> > >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes >>> > >> wrote: It’s just the cost of >>> doing >>> > >> business. >>> > >> >>> > >> And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. >>> > >> >>> > >> We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced >>> transactions >>> > >> that occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting >>> a >>> > >> credit card transactions. >>> > >> >>> > >>> On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman >>> > >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > >>> If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for >>> ACH. >>> > >>> CC is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds >>> up to >>> > >>> about 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably >>> lost an >>> > >>> additional 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 >>> > >>> years is less than 10k in one month. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and >>> can't >>> > >>> wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate >>> that >>> > >>> is enormous. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers >>> not >>> > >>> yours. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> I
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
I'm curious how your software knew of the bounced ach? I know with IPPay they didn't have a way to report this back to the software until fairly recently. What processor were you using? Or was it just someone checking every day as part of their job? Cameron On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:52 AM, Larry Smith wrote: > > Checks are a very outdated method for payment > > May be, but under US Law (Uniform Commercial Code) > a check is a "promisary note" and as such a contract to pay. > You can easily take someone to court over a bounced or bad > check. > > -- > Larry Smith > lesm...@ecsis.net > > On Fri June 29 2018 08:43, Matt Hoppes wrote: > > Oh yes, we have people complain all the time that they went to the bank > and > > sent a check out but we never got it for another two weeks or so. > > > > We also have people who say that their checks got lost in the mail or we > > get an envelope that was never sealed. > > > > Yet another reason why I tell people that the credit card payment method > is > > much more secure than checks. > > > > Checks are a very outdated method for payment > > > > > On Jun 29, 2018, at 09:38, Lewis Bergman > wrote: > > > > > > My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe yours > > > isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce > policies > > > that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a > > > result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer base > on > > > ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why > people > > > do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5 times > > > worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint. But, > it > > > really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because the > > > software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was significantly > > > different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment because a > > > bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check printing > > > service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different > > > accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account number, > > > and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came in > > > about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week > > > ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show > them > > > the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they took > > > the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if they > > > let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could > > > never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But > > > again, our experiences seem to be quite different. > > > > > > I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think we > > > ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't > > > remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was > roughly > > > the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. > > > > > > In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't have > to > > > do it like you and vice versa. > > > > > >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes > > >> wrote: It’s just the cost of > doing > > >> business. > > >> > > >> And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. > > >> > > >> We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced transactions > > >> that occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting a > > >> credit card transactions. > > >> > > >>> On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. > > >>> CC is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up > to > > >>> about 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost > an > > >>> additional 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 > > >>> years is less than 10k in one month. > > >>> > > >>> So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? > > >>> > > >>> You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and > can't > > >>> wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate > that > > >>> is enormous. > > >>> > > >>> If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers > not > > >>> yours. > > >>> > > >>> I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. > Maybe > > >>> that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple > of > > >>> weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has > > >>> ever happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened > every > > >>> year one time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my > > >>> money back, I would still be better off using ACH. > > >>> > > >>> But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day > > >>> settlement period for ACH.
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
> Checks are a very outdated method for payment May be, but under US Law (Uniform Commercial Code) a check is a "promisary note" and as such a contract to pay. You can easily take someone to court over a bounced or bad check. -- Larry Smith lesm...@ecsis.net On Fri June 29 2018 08:43, Matt Hoppes wrote: > Oh yes, we have people complain all the time that they went to the bank and > sent a check out but we never got it for another two weeks or so. > > We also have people who say that their checks got lost in the mail or we > get an envelope that was never sealed. > > Yet another reason why I tell people that the credit card payment method is > much more secure than checks. > > Checks are a very outdated method for payment > > > On Jun 29, 2018, at 09:38, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > > > My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe yours > > isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce policies > > that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a > > result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer base on > > ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why people > > do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5 times > > worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint. But, it > > really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because the > > software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was significantly > > different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment because a > > bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check printing > > service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different > > accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account number, > > and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came in > > about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week > > ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show them > > the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they took > > the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if they > > let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could > > never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But > > again, our experiences seem to be quite different. > > > > I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think we > > ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't > > remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was roughly > > the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. > > > > In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't have to > > do it like you and vice versa. > > > >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes > >> wrote: It’s just the cost of doing > >> business. > >> > >> And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. > >> > >> We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced transactions > >> that occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting a > >> credit card transactions. > >> > >>> On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. > >>> CC is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up to > >>> about 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost an > >>> additional 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 > >>> years is less than 10k in one month. > >>> > >>> So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? > >>> > >>> You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and can't > >>> wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate that > >>> is enormous. > >>> > >>> If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers not > >>> yours. > >>> > >>> I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. Maybe > >>> that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple of > >>> weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has > >>> ever happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened every > >>> year one time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my > >>> money back, I would still be better off using ACH. > >>> > >>> But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day > >>> settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... 60 > >>> days for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank takes > >>> the money back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the same as > >>> someone's ACH not clearing. > >>> > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes > wrote: ACH is slow (2 days to > clear) > ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) > ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) > ACH does not provide real-time-feedback
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
Oh yes, we have people complain all the time that they went to the bank and sent a check out but we never got it for another two weeks or so. We also have people who say that their checks got lost in the mail or we get an envelope that was never sealed. Yet another reason why I tell people that the credit card payment method is much more secure than checks. Checks are a very outdated method for payment > On Jun 29, 2018, at 09:38, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe yours > isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce policies > that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a result, > maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer base on ACH that > you so we didn't huge differences. > And I guess that's why people do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. > But if mine was 5 times worse I would still find it compelling from a > monetary viewpoint. But, it really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point > of view because the software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was > significantly different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment > because a bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check > printing service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different > accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account number, and on > top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came in about why > they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week ahead of > deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show them the > postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they took the money > out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if they let us pull the > money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could never be assessed a late > fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But again, our experiences seem to > be quite different. > > I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think we ever > had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't remember it if > we did. But in my experience, that possibility was roughly the same as my > chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. > > In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't have to do > it like you and vice versa. > >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes >> wrote: >> It’s just the cost of doing business. >> >> And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. >> >> We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced transactions that >> occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting a credit card >> transactions. >> >>> On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman wrote: >>> >>> If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. CC is >>> 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up to about 10k >>> more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost an additional 3k >>> that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 years is less than 10k >>> in one month. >>> >>> So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? >>> >>> You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and can't >>> wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate that is >>> enormous. >>> >>> If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers not >>> yours. >>> >>> I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. Maybe >>> that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple of >>> weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has ever >>> happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened every year one >>> time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my money back, I >>> would still be better off using ACH. >>> >>> But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day >>> settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... 60 days >>> for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank takes the money >>> back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the same as someone's ACH >>> not clearing. >>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes wrote: ACH is slow (2 days to clear) ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things didn’t work until it bounces two days later) Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me. A credit card is: Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the funds are coming or not) Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number gets you nowhere) Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
My cost of doing business was lower, which is why I did it. Maybe yours isn't. I will say it was a management push on my part to enforce policies that got everyone on ACH if possible. ACH was free, CC wasn't. As a result, maybe we had a more general cross section of our customer base on ACH that you so we didn't huge differences. And I guess that's why people do it differently. Your experience wasn't mine. But if mine was 5 times worse I would still find it compelling from a monetary viewpoint. But, it really wasn't an issue for us from the PITA point of view because the software handled most of it. Maybe your customer base was significantly different than mine. We also got a big kick in ACH enrollment because a bunch of the banks in our area used the same "Bill Pay" check printing service. As we got one envelope with 150 checks in it for different accounts, all listing something stupid like ISP as the account number, and on top of that, payment was made late. The inevitable calls came in about why they were charged late fees, they scheduled it payed a week ahead of deadlines, etc. We would have to explain that we could show them the postmark, the date on the check, etc. Customer would say "they took the money out of my account on ...". Our pitch was always that if they let us pull the money via ACH we wouldn't charge them and they could never be assessed a late fee if we did the ACH. That got a bunch. But again, our experiences seem to be quite different. I just put the possibility of contested CC out there. I don't think we ever had anyone contest a charge. Maybe once on an install. I don't remember it if we did. But in my experience, that possibility was roughly the same as my chances of losing more money doing ACH than CC. In the end, that is what's great about this place right? I don't have to do it like you and vice versa. On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:06 AM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > It’s just the cost of doing business. > > And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. > > We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced transactions that > occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting a credit > card transactions. > > On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. CC > is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up to about > 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost an additional > 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 years is less than > 10k in one month. > > So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? > > You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and can't > wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate that is > enormous. > > If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers not > yours. > > I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. Maybe > that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple of > weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has ever > happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened every year one > time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my money back, I > would still be better off using ACH. > > But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day > settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... 60 days > for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank takes the money > back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the same as someone's ACH > not clearing. > > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes < > mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > >> ACH is slow (2 days to clear) >> ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) >> ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) >> ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things didn’t work >> until it bounces two days later) >> >> Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me. >> >> A credit card is: >> Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the funds are >> coming or not) >> >> Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number gets you >> nowhere) >> >> Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe out your account >> and you can quickly get the funds/transactions reversed) >> >> Easy to dispute >> >> >> I have one vendor I pay via check every month because they won’t take >> cards. Otherwise everything I pay personally and business is on CC. >> >> >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 21:59, David Sovereen >> wrote: >> >> Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used to the >> recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does bounce, >> however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds. >> >> Dave >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> *David Sovereen* >> >> Mercury Network Corporation >> 2719 Ashman
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
It’s just the cost of doing business. And yes they do have 60 days to contest it but most people don’t. We have a small handful of ACH and the number of bounced transactions that occurred there is much much much higher than anyone contesting a credit card transactions. > On Jun 29, 2018, at 08:21, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. CC is > 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up to about 10k > more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost an additional 3k > that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 years is less than 10k > in one month. > > So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? > > You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and can't wait > two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate that is > enormous. > > If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers not yours. > > I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. Maybe that > proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple of weeks and > it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has ever happened. So > again, the math tells me even if that happened every year one time instead of > once in twenty years, and I didn't get my money back, I would still be better > off using ACH. > > But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day settlement > period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... 60 days for someone > to contest a charge. While they do it the bank takes the money back. Not that > that is a big risk. Probably about the same as someone's ACH not clearing. > >> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes >> wrote: >> ACH is slow (2 days to clear) >> ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) >> ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) >> ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things didn’t work >> until it bounces two days later) >> >> Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me. >> >> A credit card is: >> Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the funds are >> coming or not) >> >> Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number gets you >> nowhere) >> >> Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe out your account and >> you can quickly get the funds/transactions reversed) >> >> Easy to dispute >> >> >> I have one vendor I pay via check every month because they won’t take cards. >> Otherwise everything I pay personally and business is on CC. >> >> >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 21:59, David Sovereen >>> wrote: >>> >>> Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used to the >>> recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does bounce, >>> however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> David Sovereen >>> >>> Mercury Network Corporation >>> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640 >>> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax >>> >>> Telephone | Internet | Security Alarm Monitoring >>> >>> david.sover...@mercury.net >>> www.mercury.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote: That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then they pay you for it anyway. I used to make several thousand a month just off of late fees and disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee for any NSF. > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes > wrote: > Sure but it takes two days for the failure to come back, so the customer > can use that to game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit > card the acceptance or rejection is instant. > >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman wrote: >> >> I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off people, etc. >> Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people off >> automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly ACH and >> it saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember correctly. >> >>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes >>> wrote: >>> Hey CH is a pain in my neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees >>> are very small, but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to >>> chase balances and add fees and remove payments. >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke wrote: https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-1/ Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems are set up for ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
I was just going to say money, but your answer is more precise :) On Friday, June 29, 2018, Lewis Bergman wrote: > If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. CC > is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up to about > 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost an additional > 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 years is less than > 10k in one month. > > So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? > > You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and can't > wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate that is > enormous. > > If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers not > yours. > > I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. Maybe > that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple of > weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has ever > happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened every year one > time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my money back, I > would still be better off using ACH. > > But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day > settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... 60 days > for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank takes the money > back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the same as someone's ACH > not clearing. > > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > >> ACH is slow (2 days to clear) >> ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) >> ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) >> ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things didn’t work >> until it bounces two days later) >> >> Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me. >> >> A credit card is: >> Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the funds are >> coming or not) >> >> Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number gets you >> nowhere) >> >> Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe out your account >> and you can quickly get the funds/transactions reversed) >> >> Easy to dispute >> >> >> I have one vendor I pay via check every month because they won’t take >> cards. Otherwise everything I pay personally and business is on CC. >> >> >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 21:59, David Sovereen >> wrote: >> >> Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used to the >> recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does bounce, >> however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds. >> >> Dave >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> *David Sovereen* >> >> Mercury Network Corporation >> 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640 >> 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax >> >> Telephone * | *Internet* | *Security Alarm Monitoring >> >> david.sover...@mercury.net >> www.mercury.net >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Lewis Bergman >> wrote: >> >> That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then they pay you >> for it anyway. I used to make several thousand a month just off of late >> fees and disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee for any NSF. >> >> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes > rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: >> >>> Sure but it takes two days for the failure to come back, so the customer >>> can use that to game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit >>> card the acceptance or rejection is instant. >>> >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman >>> wrote: >>> >>> I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off people, etc. >>> Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people off >>> automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly ACH and it >>> saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember correctly. >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes >> rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: >>> Hey CH is a pain in my neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees are very small, but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase balances and add fees and remove payments. On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke wrote: https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer- perspective-part-1/ Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems are set up for ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
If you can't figure it out maybe math is the issue. 25 cents for ACH. CC is 2.75% and up. If you are doing 400k a month in CC that adds up to about 10k more in fees. In all the time we did ACH we probably lost an additional 3k that we would not have lost with CC. So 3k in 10 years is less than 10k in one month. So why do people still do it...they can do simple arithmetic? You do raise some valid points. If you have to have the money and can't wait two days and so want to pay an effective annual interest rate that is enormous. If you are drafting the routing and account info is your customers not yours. I had someone fraudulently present a check for 92k on my account. Maybe that proves your point, but the bank credited my account in a couple of weeks and it really wasn't a big deal to get done. Only time it has ever happened. So again, the math tells me even if that happened every year one time instead of once in twenty years, and I didn't get my money back, I would still be better off using ACH. But, to each his own. I know a lot of people don't like the 2 day settlement period for ACH. in truth, CC is longer. You have what... 60 days for someone to contest a charge. While they do it the bank takes the money back. Not that that is a big risk. Probably about the same as someone's ACH not clearing. On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 9:39 PM Matt Hoppes wrote: > ACH is slow (2 days to clear) > ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) > ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) > ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things didn’t work > until it bounces two days later) > > Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me. > > A credit card is: > Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the funds are > coming or not) > > Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number gets you > nowhere) > > Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe out your account and > you can quickly get the funds/transactions reversed) > > Easy to dispute > > > I have one vendor I pay via check every month because they won’t take > cards. Otherwise everything I pay personally and business is on CC. > > > On Jun 28, 2018, at 21:59, David Sovereen > wrote: > > Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used to the > recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does bounce, > however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds. > > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > > *David Sovereen* > > Mercury Network Corporation > 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640 > 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax > > Telephone * | *Internet* | *Security Alarm Monitoring > > david.sover...@mercury.net > www.mercury.net > > > > > > On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Lewis Bergman > wrote: > > That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then they pay you for > it anyway. I used to make several thousand a month just off of late fees > and disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee for any NSF. > > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes < > mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > >> Sure but it takes two days for the failure to come back, so the customer >> can use that to game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit >> card the acceptance or rejection is instant. >> >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman wrote: >> >> I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off people, etc. >> Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people off >> automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly ACH and it >> saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember correctly. >> >> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes < >> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: >> >>> Hey CH is a pain in my neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees >>> are very small, but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase >>> balances and add fees and remove payments. >>> >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke wrote: >>> >>> >>> https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-1/ >>> >>> Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems are set up >>> for ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > --
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
ACH is slow (2 days to clear) ACH is insecure (bank account numbers can be gotten off checks, etc) ACH can wipe you out (if someone gets those account numbers) ACH does not provide real-time-feedback (may not know things didn’t work until it bounces two days later) Why anyone still uses ACH or checks or beyond me. A credit card is: Instant (funds transfer immediately, you instantly know if the funds are coming or not) Secure (there is a CVV code required - just having the number gets you nowhere) Safe (if someone does steal your card they won’t wipe out your account and you can quickly get the funds/transactions reversed) Easy to dispute I have one vendor I pay via check every month because they won’t take cards. Otherwise everything I pay personally and business is on CC. > On Jun 28, 2018, at 21:59, David Sovereen wrote: > > Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used to the > recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does bounce, > however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds. > > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > > David Sovereen > > Mercury Network Corporation > 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640 > 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax > > Telephone | Internet | Security Alarm Monitoring > > david.sover...@mercury.net > www.mercury.net > > > > > >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote: >> >> That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then they pay you for >> it anyway. I used to make several thousand a month just off of late fees and >> disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee for any NSF. >> >>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes >>> wrote: >>> Sure but it takes two days for the failure to come back, so the customer >>> can use that to game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit >>> card the acceptance or rejection is instant. >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman wrote: I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off people, etc. Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people off automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly ACH and it saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember correctly. > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes > wrote: > Hey CH is a pain in my neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees > are very small, but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to > chase balances and add fees and remove payments. > >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke wrote: >> >> https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-1/ >> >> Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems are set up >> for ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
Same here. ACH saves us a bundle, and once customers are used to the recurring payment, there are few bounces. Once a payment does bounce, however, we only take cash or card... guaranteed funds. Dave Sent from my iPhone David Sovereen Mercury Network Corporation 2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640 989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free | 989.837.3780 fax Telephone | Internet | Security Alarm Monitoring david.sover...@mercury.net www.mercury.net > On Jun 28, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then they pay you for it > anyway. I used to make several thousand a month just off of late fees and > disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee for any NSF. > >> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes >> wrote: >> Sure but it takes two days for the failure to come back, so the customer can >> use that to game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit card the >> acceptance or rejection is instant. >> >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman wrote: >>> >>> I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off people, etc. >>> Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people off >>> automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly ACH and it >>> saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember correctly. >>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes wrote: Hey CH is a pain in my neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees are very small, but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase balances and add fees and remove payments. > On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke wrote: > > https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-1/ > > Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems are set up > for ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
That's true but if you assess a hefty enough penalty then they pay you for it anyway. I used to make several thousand a month just off of late fees and disconnect fees. We assessed a 25 dollar fee for any NSF. On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 4:49 PM Matt Hoppes wrote: > Sure but it takes two days for the failure to come back, so the customer > can use that to game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit > card the acceptance or rejection is instant. > > On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off people, etc. > Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people off > automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly ACH and it > saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember correctly. > > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes < > mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > >> Hey CH is a pain in my neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees >> are very small, but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase >> balances and add fees and remove payments. >> >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke wrote: >> >> >> https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-1/ >> >> Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems are set up >> for ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
Sure but it takes two days for the failure to come back, so the customer can use that to game the system if they feel so inclined. With a credit card the acceptance or rejection is instant. > On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:30, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off people, etc. Mine > would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people off automatically. One > of the few things it did well. I was mostly ACH and it saved me a couple of > grand a month if I remember correctly. > >> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes >> wrote: >> Hey CH is a pain in my neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees are >> very small, but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase >> balances and add fees and remove payments. >> >>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke wrote: >>> >>> https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-1/ >>> >>> Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems are set up for >>> ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] How ACH works
I guess it depends on your billing system, how it cuts off people, etc. Mine would accept payment, then reverse it and cut people off automatically. One of the few things it did well. I was mostly ACH and it saved me a couple of grand a month if I remember correctly. On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 4:25 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote: > Hey CH is a pain in my neck. Yes I don’t have to pay fees with the fees > are very small, but I am not guaranteed my money, and then I have to chase > balances and add fees and remove payments. > > On Jun 28, 2018, at 17:20, Eric Kuhnke wrote: > > https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-1/ > > Might be of interest for those of you whose billing systems are set up for > ACH direct debits via checking account numbers. > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
