date:20160315

Lolz
On Mar 15, 2016 7:53 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Oh look, the Greeks went away and left us this nice horse as a free gift.
> Let’s wheel it inside the gate.  What could go wrong?
>
>
> *From:* Keefe John 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:58 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone
>
> I dont see how a phone could cost $4 even if it was built from stolen
> parts using slave labor.
>
> On 3/15/2016 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> You can buy TWO of these phones for less than you can buy lunch. Heck, you
> could buy 100 of these phones, and save $300 off the price of 1 iphone. I
> don't get it.
>
>
> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unboxing-video-reveals-wonders-4-android-phone-182430448.html
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica

Are you saying you're burglarizing chucks house while he's gone? Because,
I'm just saying, I like cheap tv's
On Mar 15, 2016 10:38 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> i will be at animal farm tomorrow and wedor is it thurs
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 8:45 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica
>
> I'm boycotting everything that's not animal farm. If I actually went to
> one of these things, it would be animal farm. I dreamed about Chuck
> knitting, I need to see this.
> On Mar 15, 2016 8:23 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> You will see...
>>
>> *From:* George Skorup 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:21 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica
>>
>> Did they make you wear the lab coat for the AF experience?
>>
>> On 3/15/2016 8:19 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Isï¿½ rocking.ï¿½ I had to go home early but everybody else is up going
>> strong.ï¿½
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica

2016-03-15 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

i will be at animal farm tomorrow and wedor is it thurs

  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 8:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica

  I'm boycotting everything that's not animal farm. If I actually went to one 
of these things, it would be animal farm. I dreamed about Chuck knitting, I 
need to see this.

  On Mar 15, 2016 8:23 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

You will see...

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica

Did they make you wear the lab coat for the AF experience?

On 3/15/2016 8:19 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Isï¿½ rocking.ï¿½ I had to go home early but everybody else is up going 
strong.ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

2016-03-15 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account)

Sounds like a twisted game of settlers of catan
On Mar 15, 2016 10:00 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> Well we have some acres and mules unaccounted for. Too many people start
> asking questions, people lose their acres and mules
> On Mar 15, 2016 8:18 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I just don’t know why the Bureau of Land Management is getting into a
>> racial issue.  Most of them are white.  Must be generational guilt or
>> something...
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:03 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>
>>
>> I really hate that black lives matter is automatically equated to black
>> people. Blm is a VERY small subset of an already small subset of the black
>> community. Definetly not representative of the whole.
>>
>> And I'm a non apologetic racist, every one of my black or Mexican friends
>> will verify this. Hopefully I'm the last of a dying breed.
>> On Mar 15, 2016 7:02 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>
>>> After all the crap about Trump supporters being violent, I’ve got a
>>> timeline about who did what when.  The point is, MoveOn organized the
>>> protest a week in advance and Bill Ayers was involved in getting organizers
>>> into the event.   After the event, Black Lives Matters moved in and started
>>> the violence, the looting, and blocking the freeways including ambulances.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If we let these progressives get away with this, Trump would never have
>>> another gathering.  Apparently free speech is only allowed if you are
>>> Liberal.  I don’t condone violence outside the event but if they come
>>> inside and start protesting and affecting the right to free speech, then
>>> yes, violence is okay.  The protestors should not be in there and if they
>>> are, they trespassing, period.  A lot of Americans died from 1776 on to
>>> give us that right and nobody has a right to take that away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If there isn’t swift and harsh punishment to these criminals, and yes,
>>> inciting violence is a criminal act, then what is going to happen at the
>>> Republican Convention in Cleveland?  These people need to understand there
>>> is a civil way to do this and if they don’t know that lesson, then they
>>> should be removed and jailed.  Protest outside peacefully, protest inside
>>> by sneaking in, then don’t whine when someone is violent towards you.  You
>>> are affecting their right to free speech and to organize.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Glen Waldrop
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:29 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well said.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* justsumname . 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:09 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, Saul Alinksy had not written
>>> his book, telling his fellow rabble-rousers how to disrupt and destroy a
>>> political system without resorting to murder and general violence.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, if a "political activist" up
>>> and attacked you (presumably for holding different political views), we
>>> weren't so "politically correct" such that you *could* respond by punching
>>> the jerk's lights out and the cops would arrest the 'activist'.  Why?
>>> Because everyone pretty much had a sense of 'right and wrong' and everyone
>>> knew that attacking someone was wrong and not tolerated at all.   Also, the
>>> "individual Citizen" and private property was held in much higher esteem --
>>> defending both with effective force was not a crime.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, the US Constitution was still
>>> taught in schools and people had a damn clue when they discussed USA
>>> political issues.   Nowadays, we're just mobs with a cause, easily (mis)led
>>> by false but emotionally-charged rhetoric and a false incarnation of
>>> "victim".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There also weren't very many years difference between 1968 and Senator
>>> McAurthy's statements that "communists are infiltrating our educational
>>> institutions, our media and our govt".   Nowadays... all three are stuffed
>>> overflowing with America-hating voices and political powers.   The guy
>>> sounds a little crazy but he got that part right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In 1968, people still knew what words meant and therefore agreed on
>>> their meaning.   Which also meant the 'rule of law' could possibly exist.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There's also a movement afoot in the USA (alas the whole world, really);
>>> greater than even Black Lives Matter.   Even though the 'root cause' of BLM
>>> has a bit of a point:  blacks have been crapped on by... some 'authorities'
>>> -- including the

Re: [AFMUG] Centralish Illinois wisps and the tornadoes

I'll bitch the whole time.
On Mar 15, 2016 10:11 PM, "Ty Featherling"  wrote:

> Don't make him help you, he means it!
>
> -Ty
> On Mar 15, 2016 8:15 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> News is makin it out to be bad. I can cut out tommorrow if youre hit and
>> your guys are at the fun time drinking event. This is not me being nice,
>> I'm still a dick, but a lot of you have guys out of state and I dont want
>> you bitching about not having staff or wasting the hotel cost for your guys
>> to come back.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Centralish Illinois wisps and the tornadoes

Don't make him help you, he means it!

-Ty
On Mar 15, 2016 8:15 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> News is makin it out to be bad. I can cut out tommorrow if youre hit and
> your guys are at the fun time drinking event. This is not me being nice,
> I'm still a dick, but a lot of you have guys out of state and I dont want
> you bitching about not having staff or wasting the hotel cost for your guys
> to come back.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

Well we have some acres and mules unaccounted for. Too many people start
asking questions, people lose their acres and mules
On Mar 15, 2016 8:18 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I just don’t know why the Bureau of Land Management is getting into a
> racial issue.  Most of them are white.  Must be generational guilt or
> something...
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:03 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>
>
> I really hate that black lives matter is automatically equated to black
> people. Blm is a VERY small subset of an already small subset of the black
> community. Definetly not representative of the whole.
>
> And I'm a non apologetic racist, every one of my black or Mexican friends
> will verify this. Hopefully I'm the last of a dying breed.
> On Mar 15, 2016 7:02 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
>> After all the crap about Trump supporters being violent, I’ve got a
>> timeline about who did what when.  The point is, MoveOn organized the
>> protest a week in advance and Bill Ayers was involved in getting organizers
>> into the event.   After the event, Black Lives Matters moved in and started
>> the violence, the looting, and blocking the freeways including ambulances.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we let these progressives get away with this, Trump would never have
>> another gathering.  Apparently free speech is only allowed if you are
>> Liberal.  I don’t condone violence outside the event but if they come
>> inside and start protesting and affecting the right to free speech, then
>> yes, violence is okay.  The protestors should not be in there and if they
>> are, they trespassing, period.  A lot of Americans died from 1776 on to
>> give us that right and nobody has a right to take that away.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there isn’t swift and harsh punishment to these criminals, and yes,
>> inciting violence is a criminal act, then what is going to happen at the
>> Republican Convention in Cleveland?  These people need to understand there
>> is a civil way to do this and if they don’t know that lesson, then they
>> should be removed and jailed.  Protest outside peacefully, protest inside
>> by sneaking in, then don’t whine when someone is violent towards you.  You
>> are affecting their right to free speech and to organize.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Glen Waldrop
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:29 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>
>>
>>
>> Well said.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* justsumname . 
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:09 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>
>>
>>
>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, Saul Alinksy had not written his
>> book, telling his fellow rabble-rousers how to disrupt and destroy a
>> political system without resorting to murder and general violence.
>>
>>
>>
>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, if a "political activist" up and
>> attacked you (presumably for holding different political views), we weren't
>> so "politically correct" such that you *could* respond by punching the
>> jerk's lights out and the cops would arrest the 'activist'.  Why?   Because
>> everyone pretty much had a sense of 'right and wrong' and everyone knew
>> that attacking someone was wrong and not tolerated at all.   Also, the
>> "individual Citizen" and private property was held in much higher esteem --
>> defending both with effective force was not a crime.
>>
>>
>>
>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, the US Constitution was still
>> taught in schools and people had a damn clue when they discussed USA
>> political issues.   Nowadays, we're just mobs with a cause, easily (mis)led
>> by false but emotionally-charged rhetoric and a false incarnation of
>> "victim".
>>
>>
>>
>> There also weren't very many years difference between 1968 and Senator
>> McAurthy's statements that "communists are infiltrating our educational
>> institutions, our media and our govt".   Nowadays... all three are stuffed
>> overflowing with America-hating voices and political powers.   The guy
>> sounds a little crazy but he got that part right.
>>
>>
>>
>> In 1968, people still knew what words meant and therefore agreed on their
>> meaning.   Which also meant the 'rule of law' could possibly exist.
>>
>>
>>
>> There's also a movement afoot in the USA (alas the whole world, really);
>> greater than even Black Lives Matter.   Even though the 'root cause' of BLM
>> has a bit of a point:  blacks have been crapped on by... some 'authorities'
>> -- including the ones they vote for this bigger movement is called
>> Facts Don't Matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is true even among creatively intelligent people.  You see, even
>> though, for example, Mr Trump has never said that he wants to, or is going
>> to ... 'round

Re: [AFMUG] OT More politics

Kind of puts poor cell service into perspective, doesnt it
On Mar 15, 2016 8:26 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I outlived communism in Burma.  I remember when it started.  I had a
> little girlfriend from there named Lila that was a refugee.  My young brain
> could not comprehend that if he she went home she could never come back.
>
> Hoping for the same in Cuba.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Antennas Behind Wood or Glass in Old Building?

2016-03-15 Thread Christopher Gray

I've been looking into the MikroTik mAnt sectors they just released, it
seems they are one of the most simple / shallow sectors that could be flush
mounted (disguised / less noticeable). Any ideas for other sectors / panels
with relatively flat front surfaces? I've discussed replacing building
components with custom pieces, and they are not interested.


Thanks for the help, I'll my testing and see what I can actually do within
the proposed constraints.



On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Try to get a minimum of 2 wavelengths away and better up to 10.  Past 10
> you will have pattern distortion but the impedance and gain will be
> unaffected.  Or, get as far as you can.  If under 2 wavelengths expect
> weird behavior.
>
> *From:* Christopher Gray 
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 10:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Antennas Behind Wood or Glass in Old Building?
>
> Chuck,
>
> How far back should an antenna be from an obstruction (if the obstruction
> is mandatory and space is limited)?
>
> I found a nice paper with information about empirical RF loss testing
> through various materials. The main drawback is the tests are for 0.5-2 GHz
> and 3-8 GHz (skipping 2-3 GHz). Found here:
> http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build97/art123.html
>
> Glass test results starting page 141, and wood on page 147. Based on the
> published results, it seems I might expect signal loss in the 3 dB range
> when moving from behind glass to behind 1" boards, but I'm not sure I can
> be as far back as in their testing (1 m from the horn to the specimen).
>
> -Chris
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> hmm... looks like bacon is the way to go, if you can't use glass or ABS
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Well, glass, silicon dioxide is a good dielectric.  And dielectric
>>> materials can make RF lenses.  So if it is flat, it will not refract the
>>> signal and should faithfully transmit it with low loss.
>>>
>>> The amount of loss, assuming you are out of the reactive near field
>>> range, is related to a factor called the loss tangent or dissipation
>>> factor.  It is dependent on frequency.
>>>
>>> Air =0  (depends on weather and atmospheric parameters)
>>>
>>> Glass = .02  (decreases with higher frequency)
>>> ABS plastic I use for radomes = .01
>>>
>>> Wood = as much as .4   Commonly in the .02 range @ 3 GHz if dry.
>>> Walnut wood =   1.4 @ 10  MHz
>>> Water = .157
>>>
>>> Bacon (smoked) = .05
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Christopher Gray 
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 20, 2016 4:00 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Antennas Behind Wood or Glass in Old Building?
>>>
>>> The building is 200+ years old, so most of the glass is old enough. I've
>>> requested to replace some panes with acrylic sheets, but I don't think they
>>> will let me.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like mounting behind glass is much
>>> preferred over wood. I have not found good loss estimates yet, but I
>>> haven't dug into it too far.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Old windows are not so bad RF transparency wise. It's even possible to
 use 80 GHz through glass in high rise office buildings that predate 1982 or
 so, when metallic coatings and special IR/UV coatings on windows started to
 become possible.

 It's the *new* windows you have to worry about.



 On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 7:37 PM, Christopher Gray <
 cg...@graytechsoftware.com> wrote:

> I may have an opportunity to install some radios inside a steeple with
> some very specific requirements. I'm currently considering 5 GHz and 3.65
> GHz radios for this location. I'd like to do some PTP and PMP links, but I
> cannot afford to lose too much.
>
> I have the option between mounting behind 1" thick solid boards, 2x 1"
> thick solid boards, or behind original windows. Are locations with such
> barriers even worth entertaining? If so, would it be best to ask for
> locations behind wood or glass?
>
> Thanks you, Chris
>
>


>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica

I'm boycotting everything that's not animal farm. If I actually went to one
of these things, it would be animal farm. I dreamed about Chuck knitting, I
need to see this.
On Mar 15, 2016 8:23 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> You will see...
>
> *From:* George Skorup 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica
>
> Did they make you wear the lab coat for the AF experience?
>
> On 3/15/2016 8:19 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Isï¿½ rocking.ï¿½ I had to go home early but everybody else is up going
> strong.ï¿½
>
>
>

[AFMUG] OT More politics

I outlived communism in Burma.  I remember when it started.  I had a little 
girlfriend from there named Lila that was a refugee.  My young brain could not 
comprehend that if he she went home she could never come back.  

Hoping for the same in Cuba.

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica

You will see...

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica

Did they make you wear the lab coat for the AF experience?

On 3/15/2016 8:19 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Isï¿½ rocking.ï¿½ I had to go home early but everybody else is up going 
strong.ï¿½

Re: [AFMUG] WISPAmerica

2016-03-15 Thread George Skorup


Did they make you wear the lab coat for the AF experience?

On 3/15/2016 8:19 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Is  rocking.  I had to go home early but everybody else is up going 
strong.

[AFMUG] WISPAmerica

Is  rocking.  I had to go home early but everybody else is up going strong.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

I just don’t know why the Bureau of Land Management is getting into a racial 
issue.  Most of them are white.  Must be generational guilt or something...

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

I really hate that black lives matter is automatically equated to black people. 
Blm is a VERY small subset of an already small subset of the black community. 
Definetly not representative of the whole. 

And I'm a non apologetic racist, every one of my black or Mexican friends will 
verify this. Hopefully I'm the last of a dying breed.

On Mar 15, 2016 7:02 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

  After all the crap about Trump supporters being violent, I’ve got a timeline 
about who did what when.  The point is, MoveOn organized the protest a week in 
advance and Bill Ayers was involved in getting organizers into the event.   
After the event, Black Lives Matters moved in and started the violence, the 
looting, and blocking the freeways including ambulances. 

  If we let these progressives get away with this, Trump would never have 
another gathering.  Apparently free speech is only allowed if you are Liberal.  
I don’t condone violence outside the event but if they come inside and start 
protesting and affecting the right to free speech, then yes, violence is okay.  
The protestors should not be in there and if they are, they trespassing, 
period.  A lot of Americans died from 1776 on to give us that right and nobody 
has a right to take that away.

  If there isn’t swift and harsh punishment to these criminals, and yes, 
inciting violence is a criminal act, then what is going to happen at the 
Republican Convention in Cleveland?  These people need to understand there is a 
civil way to do this and if they don’t know that lesson, then they should be 
removed and jailed.  Protest outside peacefully, protest inside by sneaking in, 
then don’t whine when someone is violent towards you.  You are affecting their 
right to free speech and to organize.

  Rory  

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Glen Waldrop
  Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:29 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

  Well said.

  From: justsumname . 

  Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:09 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

  The difference between 1968 and now, is, Saul Alinksy had not written his 
book, telling his fellow rabble-rousers how to disrupt and destroy a political 
system without resorting to murder and general violence. 

  The difference between 1968 and now, is, if a "political activist" up and 
attacked you (presumably for holding different political views), we weren't so 
"politically correct" such that you *could* respond by punching the jerk's 
lights out and the cops would arrest the 'activist'.  Why?   Because everyone 
pretty much had a sense of 'right and wrong' and everyone knew that attacking 
someone was wrong and not tolerated at all.   Also, the "individual Citizen" 
and private property was held in much higher esteem -- defending both with 
effective force was not a crime.

  The difference between 1968 and now, is, the US Constitution was still taught 
in schools and people had a damn clue when they discussed USA political issues. 
  Nowadays, we're just mobs with a cause, easily (mis)led by false but 
emotionally-charged rhetoric and a false incarnation of "victim".

  There also weren't very many years difference between 1968 and Senator 
McAurthy's statements that "communists are infiltrating our educational 
institutions, our media and our govt".   Nowadays... all three are stuffed 
overflowing with America-hating voices and political powers.   The guy sounds a 
little crazy but he got that part right.

  In 1968, people still knew what words meant and therefore agreed on their 
meaning.   Which also meant the 'rule of law' could possibly exist.

  There's also a movement afoot in the USA (alas the whole world, really); 
greater than even Black Lives Matter.   Even though the 'root cause' of BLM has 
a bit of a point:  blacks have been crapped on by... some 'authorities' -- 
including the ones they vote for this bigger movement is called Facts Don't 
Matter.

  This is true even among creatively intelligent people.  You see, even though, 
for example, Mr Trump has never said that he wants to, or is going to ... 
'round up and deport all Hispanic peoples'... you can read it here, presented 
as 'fact'.   Another example:   Trump's supporters don't go to Hillary or 
Bernie rallies and disrupt their right to political assembly, but oh, it's 
Trump's fault that the OTHER supporters go to Trump's rallies and disrupt his 
thing and then a scuffle breaks out and then the narrative becomes "Trump 
and/or his supporters are violent".   Damn.   Taken right out of Alinsky's 
textbook!   Accuse the

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

It's actually not. I only affiliate with people who understand the true
concept of tolerance.
On Mar 15, 2016 8:06 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> You win the most confusing post of the day.
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 8:03 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I really hate that black lives matter is automatically equated to black
>> people. Blm is a VERY small subset of an already small subset of the black
>> community. Definetly not representative of the whole.
>>
>> And I'm a non apologetic racist, every one of my black or Mexican friends
>> will verify this. Hopefully I'm the last of a dying breed.
>> On Mar 15, 2016 7:02 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>
>>> After all the crap about Trump supporters being violent, I’ve got a
>>> timeline about who did what when.  The point is, MoveOn organized the
>>> protest a week in advance and Bill Ayers was involved in getting organizers
>>> into the event.   After the event, Black Lives Matters moved in and started
>>> the violence, the looting, and blocking the freeways including ambulances.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If we let these progressives get away with this, Trump would never have
>>> another gathering.  Apparently free speech is only allowed if you are
>>> Liberal.  I don’t condone violence outside the event but if they come
>>> inside and start protesting and affecting the right to free speech, then
>>> yes, violence is okay.  The protestors should not be in there and if they
>>> are, they trespassing, period.  A lot of Americans died from 1776 on to
>>> give us that right and nobody has a right to take that away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If there isn’t swift and harsh punishment to these criminals, and yes,
>>> inciting violence is a criminal act, then what is going to happen at the
>>> Republican Convention in Cleveland?  These people need to understand there
>>> is a civil way to do this and if they don’t know that lesson, then they
>>> should be removed and jailed.  Protest outside peacefully, protest inside
>>> by sneaking in, then don’t whine when someone is violent towards you.  You
>>> are affecting their right to free speech and to organize.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Glen Waldrop
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:29 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well said.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* justsumname . 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:09 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, Saul Alinksy had not written
>>> his book, telling his fellow rabble-rousers how to disrupt and destroy a
>>> political system without resorting to murder and general violence.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, if a "political activist" up
>>> and attacked you (presumably for holding different political views), we
>>> weren't so "politically correct" such that you *could* respond by punching
>>> the jerk's lights out and the cops would arrest the 'activist'.  Why?
>>> Because everyone pretty much had a sense of 'right and wrong' and everyone
>>> knew that attacking someone was wrong and not tolerated at all.   Also, the
>>> "individual Citizen" and private property was held in much higher esteem --
>>> defending both with effective force was not a crime.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, the US Constitution was still
>>> taught in schools and people had a damn clue when they discussed USA
>>> political issues.   Nowadays, we're just mobs with a cause, easily (mis)led
>>> by false but emotionally-charged rhetoric and a false incarnation of
>>> "victim".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There also weren't very many years difference between 1968 and Senator
>>> McAurthy's statements that "communists are infiltrating our educational
>>> institutions, our media and our govt".   Nowadays... all three are stuffed
>>> overflowing with America-hating voices and political powers.   The guy
>>> sounds a little crazy but he got that part right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In 1968, people still knew what words meant and therefore agreed on
>>> their meaning.   Which also meant the 'rule of law' could possibly exist.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There's also a movement afoot in the USA (alas the whole world, really);
>>> greater than even Black Lives Matter.   Even though the 'root cause' of BLM
>>> has a bit of a point:  blacks have been crapped on by... some 'authorities'
>>> -- including the ones they vote for this bigger movement is called
>>> Facts Don't Matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is true even among creatively intelligent people.  You see, even
>>> though, for example, Mr Trump has never said that he wants to, or is going
>>> to ... 'round up and deport all Hispanic peoples'... you can read it here,
>>> presented as 'fact'.   Another example:

[AFMUG] Centralish Illinois wisps and the tornadoes

News is makin it out to be bad. I can cut out tommorrow if youre hit and
your guys are at the fun time drinking event. This is not me being nice,
I'm still a dick, but a lot of you have guys out of state and I dont want
you bitching about not having staff or wasting the hotel cost for your guys
to come back.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

2016-03-15 Thread Lewis Bergman

You win the most confusing post of the day.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 8:03 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I really hate that black lives matter is automatically equated to black
> people. Blm is a VERY small subset of an already small subset of the black
> community. Definetly not representative of the whole.
>
> And I'm a non apologetic racist, every one of my black or Mexican friends
> will verify this. Hopefully I'm the last of a dying breed.
> On Mar 15, 2016 7:02 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
>> After all the crap about Trump supporters being violent, I’ve got a
>> timeline about who did what when.  The point is, MoveOn organized the
>> protest a week in advance and Bill Ayers was involved in getting organizers
>> into the event.   After the event, Black Lives Matters moved in and started
>> the violence, the looting, and blocking the freeways including ambulances.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we let these progressives get away with this, Trump would never have
>> another gathering.  Apparently free speech is only allowed if you are
>> Liberal.  I don’t condone violence outside the event but if they come
>> inside and start protesting and affecting the right to free speech, then
>> yes, violence is okay.  The protestors should not be in there and if they
>> are, they trespassing, period.  A lot of Americans died from 1776 on to
>> give us that right and nobody has a right to take that away.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there isn’t swift and harsh punishment to these criminals, and yes,
>> inciting violence is a criminal act, then what is going to happen at the
>> Republican Convention in Cleveland?  These people need to understand there
>> is a civil way to do this and if they don’t know that lesson, then they
>> should be removed and jailed.  Protest outside peacefully, protest inside
>> by sneaking in, then don’t whine when someone is violent towards you.  You
>> are affecting their right to free speech and to organize.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Glen Waldrop
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:29 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>
>>
>>
>> Well said.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* justsumname . 
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:09 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>>
>>
>>
>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, Saul Alinksy had not written his
>> book, telling his fellow rabble-rousers how to disrupt and destroy a
>> political system without resorting to murder and general violence.
>>
>>
>>
>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, if a "political activist" up and
>> attacked you (presumably for holding different political views), we weren't
>> so "politically correct" such that you *could* respond by punching the
>> jerk's lights out and the cops would arrest the 'activist'.  Why?   Because
>> everyone pretty much had a sense of 'right and wrong' and everyone knew
>> that attacking someone was wrong and not tolerated at all.   Also, the
>> "individual Citizen" and private property was held in much higher esteem --
>> defending both with effective force was not a crime.
>>
>>
>>
>> The difference between 1968 and now, is, the US Constitution was still
>> taught in schools and people had a damn clue when they discussed USA
>> political issues.   Nowadays, we're just mobs with a cause, easily (mis)led
>> by false but emotionally-charged rhetoric and a false incarnation of
>> "victim".
>>
>>
>>
>> There also weren't very many years difference between 1968 and Senator
>> McAurthy's statements that "communists are infiltrating our educational
>> institutions, our media and our govt".   Nowadays... all three are stuffed
>> overflowing with America-hating voices and political powers.   The guy
>> sounds a little crazy but he got that part right.
>>
>>
>>
>> In 1968, people still knew what words meant and therefore agreed on their
>> meaning.   Which also meant the 'rule of law' could possibly exist.
>>
>>
>>
>> There's also a movement afoot in the USA (alas the whole world, really);
>> greater than even Black Lives Matter.   Even though the 'root cause' of BLM
>> has a bit of a point:  blacks have been crapped on by... some 'authorities'
>> -- including the ones they vote for this bigger movement is called
>> Facts Don't Matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is true even among creatively intelligent people.  You see, even
>> though, for example, Mr Trump has never said that he wants to, or is going
>> to ... 'round up and deport all Hispanic peoples'... you can read it here,
>> presented as 'fact'.   Another example:   Trump's supporters don't go to
>> Hillary or Bernie rallies and disrupt their right to political assembly,
>> but oh, it's Trump's fault that the OTHER supporters go to Trump's rallies
>> and disrupt his thing and then a scuffle breaks out and then the narrative
>> becomes "Trump and/or

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

I really hate that black lives matter is automatically equated to black
people. Blm is a VERY small subset of an already small subset of the black
community. Definetly not representative of the whole.

And I'm a non apologetic racist, every one of my black or Mexican friends
will verify this. Hopefully I'm the last of a dying breed.
On Mar 15, 2016 7:02 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> After all the crap about Trump supporters being violent, I’ve got a
> timeline about who did what when.  The point is, MoveOn organized the
> protest a week in advance and Bill Ayers was involved in getting organizers
> into the event.   After the event, Black Lives Matters moved in and started
> the violence, the looting, and blocking the freeways including ambulances.
>
>
>
> If we let these progressives get away with this, Trump would never have
> another gathering.  Apparently free speech is only allowed if you are
> Liberal.  I don’t condone violence outside the event but if they come
> inside and start protesting and affecting the right to free speech, then
> yes, violence is okay.  The protestors should not be in there and if they
> are, they trespassing, period.  A lot of Americans died from 1776 on to
> give us that right and nobody has a right to take that away.
>
>
>
> If there isn’t swift and harsh punishment to these criminals, and yes,
> inciting violence is a criminal act, then what is going to happen at the
> Republican Convention in Cleveland?  These people need to understand there
> is a civil way to do this and if they don’t know that lesson, then they
> should be removed and jailed.  Protest outside peacefully, protest inside
> by sneaking in, then don’t whine when someone is violent towards you.  You
> are affecting their right to free speech and to organize.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Glen Waldrop
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>
>
>
> Well said.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* justsumname . 
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:09 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
>
>
>
> The difference between 1968 and now, is, Saul Alinksy had not written his
> book, telling his fellow rabble-rousers how to disrupt and destroy a
> political system without resorting to murder and general violence.
>
>
>
> The difference between 1968 and now, is, if a "political activist" up and
> attacked you (presumably for holding different political views), we weren't
> so "politically correct" such that you *could* respond by punching the
> jerk's lights out and the cops would arrest the 'activist'.  Why?   Because
> everyone pretty much had a sense of 'right and wrong' and everyone knew
> that attacking someone was wrong and not tolerated at all.   Also, the
> "individual Citizen" and private property was held in much higher esteem --
> defending both with effective force was not a crime.
>
>
>
> The difference between 1968 and now, is, the US Constitution was still
> taught in schools and people had a damn clue when they discussed USA
> political issues.   Nowadays, we're just mobs with a cause, easily (mis)led
> by false but emotionally-charged rhetoric and a false incarnation of
> "victim".
>
>
>
> There also weren't very many years difference between 1968 and Senator
> McAurthy's statements that "communists are infiltrating our educational
> institutions, our media and our govt".   Nowadays... all three are stuffed
> overflowing with America-hating voices and political powers.   The guy
> sounds a little crazy but he got that part right.
>
>
>
> In 1968, people still knew what words meant and therefore agreed on their
> meaning.   Which also meant the 'rule of law' could possibly exist.
>
>
>
> There's also a movement afoot in the USA (alas the whole world, really);
> greater than even Black Lives Matter.   Even though the 'root cause' of BLM
> has a bit of a point:  blacks have been crapped on by... some 'authorities'
> -- including the ones they vote for this bigger movement is called
> Facts Don't Matter.
>
>
>
> This is true even among creatively intelligent people.  You see, even
> though, for example, Mr Trump has never said that he wants to, or is going
> to ... 'round up and deport all Hispanic peoples'... you can read it here,
> presented as 'fact'.   Another example:   Trump's supporters don't go to
> Hillary or Bernie rallies and disrupt their right to political assembly,
> but oh, it's Trump's fault that the OTHER supporters go to Trump's rallies
> and disrupt his thing and then a scuffle breaks out and then the narrative
> becomes "Trump and/or his supporters are violent".   Damn.   Taken right
> out of Alinsky's textbook!   Accuse the OTHER side of the very thing YOU
> are doing.   Of course this works best when the "media" is all down with it
> all...
>
>
>
> Ahhh I have been telling people for

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone....

2016-03-15 Thread timothy steele

That phone has been on Engadget a few times most think it is a scam to get
government funding..

LG G3 still the best phone ever made and can pick them up on eBay for
around $50 if your looking for a budget phone

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016, 8:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Oh look, the Greeks went away and left us this nice horse as a free gift.
> Let’s wheel it inside the gate.  What could go wrong?
>
>
> *From:* Keefe John 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:58 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone
>
> I dont see how a phone could cost $4 even if it was built from stolen
> parts using slave labor.
>
> On 3/15/2016 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> You can buy TWO of these phones for less than you can buy lunch. Heck, you
> could buy 100 of these phones, and save $300 off the price of 1 iphone. I
> don't get it.
>
>
> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unboxing-video-reveals-wonders-4-android-phone-182430448.html
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone....

2016-03-15 Thread Ken Hohhof

Oh look, the Greeks went away and left us this nice horse as a free gift.  
Let’s wheel it inside the gate.  What could go wrong?

From: Keefe John 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone

I dont see how a phone could cost $4 even if it was built from stolen parts 
using slave labor.

On 3/15/2016 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  You can buy TWO of these phones for less than you can buy lunch. Heck, you 
could buy 100 of these phones, and save $300 off the price of 1 iphone. I don't 
get it.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unboxing-video-reveals-wonders-4-android-phone-182430448.html

-- 

bp

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

This is used extensively by tower service companies working for the big-4
cellular carriers, or subcontractors thereof...  It's not cheap:

http://www.midwestunlimited.com/products/3Z-RF-Aligner-%252d-GPS-Antenna-Alignment-Tool.html


As best I understand it doesn't use a magnetic compass, which is pretty
useless on a steel tower, but several high accuracy GPS units, one on the
end of an arm that sticks off the front, and one on the rear.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> I wish sectors came with some kind of center line.  Preferably slightly
> raised.
>
> Edward Brooks wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone!  This was enlightening.  I have been using the "Cellular
>> Industry" mindset due to tower construction and I have been trying to stay
>> very accurate as far as azimuths to keep our coverage maps as accurate as
>> possible and to keep from self-interfering with our other towers.
>>
>> -Ed
>>
>> On 3/15/2016 3:57 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>>
>>> We also eyeball it using Google Earth and landmarks.  I can never get a
>>> compass to work reliably enough in the vicinity of the tower.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the
>>> notched degree hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> for sector antenna elevation, one of these...
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC
>>>
>>> If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or
>>> downtilt due to terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and
>>> are giving the sector to a 3rd party installer to hang.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim
>>> scope a few years ago.  I discovered that no matter how
>>> far I extended the flux gate sensor, any tower of decent
>>> size threw it off. Best to use a hand held GPS at the
>>> base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few
>>> tries you will find the correct heading.  Note some kind
>>> of landmark and aim for that.
>>> Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.
>>>  If you have the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing
>>> close, you should be able to find it with a bit of sweeping.
>>> *From:* Edward Brooks 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
>>> Anyone!!?? I watch posts about the strangest things go on
>>> in here and not even one reply to a valid question?!
>>>
>>> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>>>
 Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has
 degraded to the point of being unreliable and now
 useless.  We have been looking at a few of the obviously
 expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
 Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are
 also looking for a less expensive, but more accurate
 than standing in a field looking back at the antenna,
 option to purchase.  What are some of you using to
 accurately align your AP sectors and do initial BH
 deployment?

 Thanks,
 -Ed
 -- Edward Brooks
 /Network Operations Project Manager
 Montana Internet Corporation/
 406-443-3347 

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> Avast logo 
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com 
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

2016-03-15 Thread Rory Conaway

After all the crap about Trump supporters being violent, I’ve got a timeline 
about who did what when.  The point is, MoveOn organized the protest a week in 
advance and Bill Ayers was involved in getting organizers into the event.   
After the event, Black Lives Matters moved in and started the violence, the 
looting, and blocking the freeways including ambulances.

If we let these progressives get away with this, Trump would never have another 
gathering.  Apparently free speech is only allowed if you are Liberal.  I don’t 
condone violence outside the event but if they come inside and start protesting 
and affecting the right to free speech, then yes, violence is okay.  The 
protestors should not be in there and if they are, they trespassing, period.  A 
lot of Americans died from 1776 on to give us that right and nobody has a right 
to take that away.

If there isn’t swift and harsh punishment to these criminals, and yes, inciting 
violence is a criminal act, then what is going to happen at the Republican 
Convention in Cleveland?  These people need to understand there is a civil way 
to do this and if they don’t know that lesson, then they should be removed and 
jailed.  Protest outside peacefully, protest inside by sneaking in, then don’t 
whine when someone is violent towards you.  You are affecting their right to 
free speech and to organize.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Glen Waldrop
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 7:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

Well said.



From: justsumname .
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

The difference between 1968 and now, is, Saul Alinksy had not written his book, 
telling his fellow rabble-rousers how to disrupt and destroy a political system 
without resorting to murder and general violence.

The difference between 1968 and now, is, if a "political activist" up and 
attacked you (presumably for holding different political views), we weren't so 
"politically correct" such that you *could* respond by punching the jerk's 
lights out and the cops would arrest the 'activist'.  Why?   Because everyone 
pretty much had a sense of 'right and wrong' and everyone knew that attacking 
someone was wrong and not tolerated at all.   Also, the "individual Citizen" 
and private property was held in much higher esteem -- defending both with 
effective force was not a crime.

The difference between 1968 and now, is, the US Constitution was still taught 
in schools and people had a damn clue when they discussed USA political issues. 
  Nowadays, we're just mobs with a cause, easily (mis)led by false but 
emotionally-charged rhetoric and a false incarnation of "victim".

There also weren't very many years difference between 1968 and Senator 
McAurthy's statements that "communists are infiltrating our educational 
institutions, our media and our govt".   Nowadays... all three are stuffed 
overflowing with America-hating voices and political powers.   The guy sounds a 
little crazy but he got that part right.

In 1968, people still knew what words meant and therefore agreed on their 
meaning.   Which also meant the 'rule of law' could possibly exist.

There's also a movement afoot in the USA (alas the whole world, really); 
greater than even Black Lives Matter.   Even though the 'root cause' of BLM has 
a bit of a point:  blacks have been crapped on by... some 'authorities' -- 
including the ones they vote for this bigger movement is called Facts Don't 
Matter.

This is true even among creatively intelligent people.  You see, even though, 
for example, Mr Trump has never said that he wants to, or is going to ... 
'round up and deport all Hispanic peoples'... you can read it here, presented 
as 'fact'.   Another example:   Trump's supporters don't go to Hillary or 
Bernie rallies and disrupt their right to political assembly, but oh, it's 
Trump's fault that the OTHER supporters go to Trump's rallies and disrupt his 
thing and then a scuffle breaks out and then the narrative becomes "Trump 
and/or his supporters are violent".   Damn.   Taken right out of Alinsky's 
textbook!   Accuse the OTHER side of the very thing YOU are doing.   Of course 
this works best when the "media" is all down with it all...

Ahhh I have been telling people for quite a few years that the 'United 
States is being destroyed', crazy foo' that I am!   Citizen status is being 
diluted and dissolved.   The international, physical boundary (the foundation 
of private land / property ownership) is being diluted and dissolved.The 
elections have no verifiable integrity (but many of us still call the USA a 
'democracy'... wow the idiocy).   Arbitrarily-defined "civil rights" now 
supercede tangible, measurable, legally tactile property rights.  Courts are 
*impossibly* overloaded.   The national 'money' is just fancy paper.  It

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Yeah or a peep sight of some kind. Two rings you can line up and look
through. The airfibers have that hoist loop on top. Add another smaller one
on the front top of the dish and there you go.

-Ty
On Mar 15, 2016 6:07 PM, "Jay Weekley"  wrote:

> I wish sectors came with some kind of center line.  Preferably slightly
> raised.
>
> Edward Brooks wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone!  This was enlightening.  I have been using the "Cellular
>> Industry" mindset due to tower construction and I have been trying to stay
>> very accurate as far as azimuths to keep our coverage maps as accurate as
>> possible and to keep from self-interfering with our other towers.
>>
>> -Ed
>>
>> On 3/15/2016 3:57 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>>
>>> We also eyeball it using Google Earth and landmarks.  I can never get a
>>> compass to work reliably enough in the vicinity of the tower.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds >> > wrote:
>>>
>>> What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the
>>> notched degree hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> for sector antenna elevation, one of these...
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC
>>>
>>> If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or
>>> downtilt due to terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and
>>> are giving the sector to a 3rd party installer to hang.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim
>>> scope a few years ago.  I discovered that no matter how
>>> far I extended the flux gate sensor, any tower of decent
>>> size threw it off. Best to use a hand held GPS at the
>>> base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few
>>> tries you will find the correct heading.  Note some kind
>>> of landmark and aim for that.
>>> Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.
>>>  If you have the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing
>>> close, you should be able to find it with a bit of sweeping.
>>> *From:* Edward Brooks 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
>>> Anyone!!?? I watch posts about the strangest things go on
>>> in here and not even one reply to a valid question?!
>>>
>>> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>>>
 Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has
 degraded to the point of being unreliable and now
 useless.  We have been looking at a few of the obviously
 expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
 Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are
 also looking for a less expensive, but more accurate
 than standing in a field looking back at the antenna,
 option to purchase.  What are some of you using to
 accurately align your AP sectors and do initial BH
 deployment?

 Thanks,
 -Ed
 -- Edward Brooks
 /Network Operations Project Manager
 Montana Internet Corporation/
 406-443-3347 

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> Avast logo 
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com 
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

2016-03-15 Thread Jay Weekley

I wish sectors came with some kind of center line.  Preferably slightly 
raised.


Edward Brooks wrote:
Thanks everyone!  This was enlightening.  I have been using the 
"Cellular Industry" mindset due to tower construction and I have been 
trying to stay very accurate as far as azimuths to keep our coverage 
maps as accurate as possible and to keep from self-interfering with 
our other towers.


-Ed

On 3/15/2016 3:57 PM, Jeremy wrote:
We also eyeball it using Google Earth and landmarks.  I can never get 
a compass to work reliably enough in the vicinity of the tower.


On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds > wrote:


What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the
notched degree hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke
 wrote:

for sector antenna elevation, one of these...


http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC

If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or
downtilt due to terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and
are giving the sector to a 3rd party installer to hang.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown
> wrote:

I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim
scope a few years ago.  I discovered that no matter how
far I extended the flux gate sensor, any tower of decent
size threw it off. Best to use a hand held GPS at the
base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few
tries you will find the correct heading.  Note some kind
of landmark and aim for that.
Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level. 
If you have the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing

close, you should be able to find it with a bit of sweeping.
*From:* Edward Brooks 
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
Anyone!!?? I watch posts about the strangest things go on
in here and not even one reply to a valid question?!

On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:

Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has
degraded to the point of being unreliable and now
useless.  We have been looking at a few of the obviously
expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are
also looking for a less expensive, but more accurate
than standing in a field looking back at the antenna,
option to purchase.  What are some of you using to
accurately align your AP sectors and do initial BH
deployment?

Thanks,
-Ed
-- 
Edward Brooks

/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347 







Avast logo   

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

2016-03-15 Thread Edward Brooks

Thanks everyone!  This was enlightening.  I have been using the 
"Cellular Industry" mindset due to tower construction and I have been 
trying to stay very accurate as far as azimuths to keep our coverage 
maps as accurate as possible and to keep from self-interfering with our 
other towers.


-Ed

On 3/15/2016 3:57 PM, Jeremy wrote:
We also eyeball it using Google Earth and landmarks.  I can never get 
a compass to work reliably enough in the vicinity of the tower.


On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds > wrote:


What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the notched
degree hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke
> wrote:

for sector antenna elevation, one of these...


http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC

If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or
downtilt due to terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and
are giving the sector to a 3rd party installer to hang.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim
scope a few years ago. I discovered that no matter how far
I extended the flux gate sensor, any tower of decent size
threw it off.  Best to use a hand held GPS at the base of
the the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you
will find the correct heading. Note some kind of landmark
and aim for that.
Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level. 
If you have the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing

close, you should be able to find it with a bit of sweeping.
*From:* Edward Brooks 
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
Anyone!!?? I watch posts about the strangest things go on
in here and not even one reply to a valid question?!

On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:

Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has
degraded to the point of being unreliable and now
useless. We have been looking at a few of the obviously
expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are
also looking for a less expensive, but more accurate than
standing in a field looking back at the antenna, option
to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?

Thanks,
-Ed
-- 
Edward Brooks

/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347 






---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

I'll have to try that. We adopted TowerCoverage.com recently.

-Ty



-Ty

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Towercoverage.com actually has a cool "vr" / camera android app for
> alignment that works pretty well.
> On Mar 15, 2016 5:00 PM, "Ty Featherling"  wrote:
>
>> Ditto. Same for sectors or dishes. Most of the time on Backhauls I can
>> see the other side enough to recognize it through binoculars. If not I use
>> the Google Earth method there too. When done I use my phone to take a photo
>> with the phone pressed against the top rear of the sector so that they are
>> aligned. From the photo you can see where the center is pointing. Some
>> dishes will do the same if there is enough lip to do it.
>>
>> -Ty
>>
>>
>>
>> -Ty
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>>
>>> We also eyeball it using Google Earth and landmarks.  I can never get a
>>> compass to work reliably enough in the vicinity of the tower.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the notched
 degree hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P

 On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
 wrote:

> for sector antenna elevation, one of these...
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC
>
> If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or downtilt due
> to terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and are giving the sector to 
> a
> 3rd party installer to hang.
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few
>> years ago.  I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate
>> sensor, any tower of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held 
>> GPS
>> at the base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you
>> will find the correct heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for
>> that.
>>
>> Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have
>> the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to
>> find it with a bit of sweeping.
>>
>> *From:* Edward Brooks 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
>>
>> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here
>> and not even one reply to a valid question?!
>>
>> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>>
>> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
>> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
>> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
>> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
>> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back 
>> at
>> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to 
>> accurately
>> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Ed
>> --
>> Edward Brooks
>>
>> *Network Operations Project ManagerMontana Internet Corporation*
>> 406-443-3347
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com 
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Towercoverage.com actually has a cool "vr" / camera android app for
alignment that works pretty well.
On Mar 15, 2016 5:00 PM, "Ty Featherling"  wrote:

> Ditto. Same for sectors or dishes. Most of the time on Backhauls I can see
> the other side enough to recognize it through binoculars. If not I use the
> Google Earth method there too. When done I use my phone to take a photo
> with the phone pressed against the top rear of the sector so that they are
> aligned. From the photo you can see where the center is pointing. Some
> dishes will do the same if there is enough lip to do it.
>
> -Ty
>
>
>
> -Ty
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> We also eyeball it using Google Earth and landmarks.  I can never get a
>> compass to work reliably enough in the vicinity of the tower.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the notched
>>> degree hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 for sector antenna elevation, one of these...


 http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC

 If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or downtilt due
 to terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and are giving the sector to a
 3rd party installer to hang.

 On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few
> years ago.  I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate
> sensor, any tower of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held 
> GPS
> at the base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you
> will find the correct heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for
> that.
>
> Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have
> the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to
> find it with a bit of sweeping.
>
> *From:* Edward Brooks 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
>
> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and
> not even one reply to a valid question?!
>
> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>
> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>
> Thanks,
> -Ed
> --
> Edward Brooks
>
> *Network Operations Project ManagerMontana Internet Corporation*
> 406-443-3347
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Ditto. Same for sectors or dishes. Most of the time on Backhauls I can see
the other side enough to recognize it through binoculars. If not I use the
Google Earth method there too. When done I use my phone to take a photo
with the phone pressed against the top rear of the sector so that they are
aligned. From the photo you can see where the center is pointing. Some
dishes will do the same if there is enough lip to do it.

-Ty

-Ty

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

> We also eyeball it using Google Earth and landmarks.  I can never get a
> compass to work reliably enough in the vicinity of the tower.
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the notched degree
>> hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> for sector antenna elevation, one of these...
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC
>>>
>>> If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or downtilt due to
>>> terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and are giving the sector to a
>>> 3rd party installer to hang.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few
 years ago.  I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate
 sensor, any tower of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held GPS
 at the base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you
 will find the correct heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for
 that.

 Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have
 the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to
 find it with a bit of sweeping.

 *From:* Edward Brooks 
 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

 Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and
 not even one reply to a valid question?!

 On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:

 Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
 point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
 of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
 Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
 less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
 the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
 align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?

 Thanks,
 -Ed
 --
 Edward Brooks

 *Network Operations Project ManagerMontana Internet Corporation*
 406-443-3347

 --
 [image: Avast logo] 

 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
 www.avast.com 

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

2016-03-15 Thread Jeremy

We also eyeball it using Google Earth and landmarks.  I can never get a
compass to work reliably enough in the vicinity of the tower.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the notched degree
> hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> for sector antenna elevation, one of these...
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC
>>
>> If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or downtilt due to
>> terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and are giving the sector to a
>> 3rd party installer to hang.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few years
>>> ago.  I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate sensor,
>>> any tower of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held GPS at the
>>> base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you will find
>>> the correct heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for that.
>>>
>>> Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have
>>> the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to
>>> find it with a bit of sweeping.
>>>
>>> *From:* Edward Brooks 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
>>>
>>> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and
>>> not even one reply to a valid question?!
>>>
>>> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>>>
>>> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
>>> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
>>> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
>>> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
>>> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
>>> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
>>> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Ed
>>> --
>>> Edward Brooks
>>>
>>> *Network Operations Project ManagerMontana Internet Corporation*
>>> 406-443-3347
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com 
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

No, I assume the tower is not level and do that anyway :P

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the notched degree
> hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> for sector antenna elevation, one of these...
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC
>>
>> If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or downtilt due to
>> terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and are giving the sector to a
>> 3rd party installer to hang.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few years
>>> ago.  I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate sensor,
>>> any tower of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held GPS at the
>>> base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you will find
>>> the correct heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for that.
>>>
>>> Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have
>>> the elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to
>>> find it with a bit of sweeping.
>>>
>>> *From:* Edward Brooks 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
>>>
>>> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and
>>> not even one reply to a valid question?!
>>>
>>> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>>>
>>> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
>>> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
>>> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
>>> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
>>> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
>>> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
>>> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Ed
>>> --
>>> Edward Brooks
>>>
>>> *Network Operations Project ManagerMontana Internet Corporation*
>>> 406-443-3347
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com 
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

What, you don't just assume the tower is level and use the notched degree
hash marks on the antenna vertical adjustment bolt? :P

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> for sector antenna elevation, one of these...
>
> http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC
>
> If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or downtilt due to
> terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and are giving the sector to a
> 3rd party installer to hang.
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few years
>> ago.  I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate sensor,
>> any tower of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held GPS at the
>> base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you will find
>> the correct heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for that.
>>
>> Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have the
>> elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to find
>> it with a bit of sweeping.
>>
>> *From:* Edward Brooks 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
>>
>> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and
>> not even one reply to a valid question?!
>>
>> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>>
>> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
>> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
>> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
>> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
>> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
>> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
>> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Ed
>> --
>> Edward Brooks
>>
>> *Network Operations Project ManagerMontana Internet Corporation*
>> 406-443-3347
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com 
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

for sector antenna elevation, one of these...

http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC

If you've planned out coverage with an unusual uptilt or downtilt due to
terrain (or built in electrical downtilt) and are giving the sector to a
3rd party installer to hang.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few years
> ago.  I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate sensor,
> any tower of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held GPS at the
> base of  the the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you will find
> the correct heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for that.
>
> Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have the
> elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to find
> it with a bit of sweeping.
>
> *From:* Edward Brooks 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment
>
> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and not
> even one reply to a valid question?!
>
> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>
> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>
> Thanks,
> -Ed
> --
> Edward Brooks
>
> *Network Operations Project ManagerMontana Internet Corporation*
> 406-443-3347
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Never mind,  you said sectors.  Those you can guess at.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 3:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few years ago.  
I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate sensor, any tower 
of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held GPS at the base of  the 
the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you will find the correct 
heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for that.  

Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have the 
elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to find it 
with a bit of sweeping.  

From: Edward Brooks 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and not even 
one reply to a valid question?!

On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:

  Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the point 
of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few of the 
obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner, Multiwave 
SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a less expensive, 
but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at the antenna, option 
to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately align your AP sectors 
and do initial BH deployment?

  Thanks,
  -Ed

  -- 
  Edward Brooks
  Network Operations Project Manager
  Montana Internet Corporation
  406-443-3347

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
  www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

I  was working on an electronic version of my accu-aim scope a few years ago.  
I discovered that no matter how far I extended the flux gate sensor, any tower 
of decent size threw it off.  Best to use a hand held GPS at the base of  the 
the tower and start walking.   After a few tries you will find the correct 
heading.  Note some kind of landmark and aim for that.  

Elevation be derived dead on with a cheap digital level.  If you have the 
elevation nailed and the heading/bearing close, you should be able to find it 
with a bit of sweeping.  

From: Edward Brooks 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and not even 
one reply to a valid question?!


On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:

  Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the point 
of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few of the 
obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner, Multiwave 
SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a less expensive, 
but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at the antenna, option 
to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately align your AP sectors 
and do initial BH deployment?

  Thanks,
  -Ed

  -- 
  Edward Brooks
  Network Operations Project Manager
  Montana Internet Corporation
  406-443-3347





This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
  www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

They should do that, give existing illegals 90 days to report. Then they
help build the wall in exchange for the front of the line on legal
immigration. No deportation unless declined

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> They figure if they're going to get stuck with the bill anyway, why not
> use cheap(er) labor.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/15/2016 2:22 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> nice,
> but on the mexican side theyre already doing that
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> https://media.giphy.com/media/3ornjHASZFGhBKoDYs/giphy.gif
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 7:04 PM, Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Deny deny deny
>>> On Mar 14, 2016 6:37 PM, "Jaime Solorza" < 
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Mea culpa
 On Mar 14, 2016 6:34 PM, "Lewis Bergman" < 
 lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't believe anything any of them say. The only time they tell the
> truth is when it benefits them. Like when someone else does something bad,
> even if they themselves have done it before.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 10:52 AM Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> not so, I don't like his ties or his hair..
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:44 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> i think jaime has a mancrush on the donald
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Jaime Solorza <
>>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 He should stick to TV ...he is good at it

 Jaime Solorza
 Wireless Systems Architect
 915-861-1390

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Bill Prince <
 part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You can't trust 95% of what comes out of Trump's mouth. As of
> March 3, 2016, he had almost the lowest "truthiness" of any Republican
> candidate (only Carson ranked lower).
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/13/2016 5:54 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for
> almost six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same 
> ol' same
> ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest 
> groups
> to keep everything running.
>
> It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even
> Fortune magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did 
> start
> with $1 million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 
> million
> is pretty damn impressive.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:
>
> Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.
> Are you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George 
> Soros
> are both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would 
> happen
> if we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some 
> stooge? As
> businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, 
> you are
> more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.
>
>
>
> There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once
> who isn’t owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  
> I’d take
> Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and 
> clearly
> over Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T 
> in debt
> and it’s getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope 
> and
> Change was a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not
> better.  We are on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar 
> ever,
> Hillary Clinton, and you think Trump would be worse without having 
> any idea
> how he would govern.
>
>
>
> Wow.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video
>
>
>
> If someone really wants to

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

They figure if they're going to get stuck with the bill anyway, why not 
use cheap(er) labor.

bp

On 3/15/2016 2:22 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

nice,
but on the mexican side theyre already doing that

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Ryan Ray > wrote:

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ornjHASZFGhBKoDYs/giphy.gif

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 7:04 PM, Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

Deny deny deny

On Mar 14, 2016 6:37 PM, "Jaime Solorza"
>
wrote:

Mea culpa

On Mar 14, 2016 6:34 PM, "Lewis Bergman"
>
wrote:

I don't believe anything any of them say. The only
time they tell the truth is when it benefits them.
Like when someone else does something bad, even if
they themselves have done it before.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 10:52 AM Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

not so, I don't like his ties or his hair..

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:44 AM, That One Guy
/sarcasm > wrote:

i think jaime has a mancrush on the donald

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Jaime
Solorza > wrote:

He should stick to TV ...he is good at it

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Bill
Prince > wrote:

You can't trust 95% of what comes out
of Trump's mouth. As of March 3, 2016,
he had almost the lowest "truthiness"
of any Republican candidate (only
Carson ranked lower).

bp

On 3/13/2016 5:54 PM, Travis Johnson
wrote:

I agree with this statement 100%. I
have said this about Trump for almost
six months now, and everyone laughed.
I'm tired of the same ol' same
ol' lifetime politicians that
take money from special interest
groups to keep everything running.

It's time for a change. Say what you
want about Trump, but even Fortune
magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net
Worth. Even if he did start with $1
million from his dad 40 years ago,
turning that into $5,000 million is
pretty damn impressive.

Travis

On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway
wrote:

Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I
guess I’ve been called worse.  Are
you even curious why both the
Republican establishment and George
Soros are both out to get him?  And
don’t you want to find out what
would happen if we put a real
businessman in the White House
instead of some stooge? As
businessmen yourselves, I thought
you would respect that. Instead, you
are more interested in your ideology
than your economic welfare.

There are those of us who simply
want someone in power for once who
isn’t owned by the establishment. If

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

The bossman is there, be nice to him. Talk him into buying me pretty things

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Matt Hardy  wrote:

> Gino, we learn about our new products from you here on the list ;)
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> Any announcements?
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

nice,
but on the mexican side theyre already doing that

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> https://media.giphy.com/media/3ornjHASZFGhBKoDYs/giphy.gif
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 7:04 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Deny deny deny
>> On Mar 14, 2016 6:37 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mea culpa
>>> On Mar 14, 2016 6:34 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I don't believe anything any of them say. The only time they tell the
 truth is when it benefits them. Like when someone else does something bad,
 even if they themselves have done it before.

 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016, 10:52 AM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> not so, I don't like his ties or his hair..
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:44 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i think jaime has a mancrush on the donald
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> He should stick to TV ...he is good at it
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>> 915-861-1390
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Bill Prince 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 You can't trust 95% of what comes out of Trump's mouth. As of March
 3, 2016, he had almost the lowest "truthiness" of any Republican 
 candidate
 (only Carson ranked lower).

 bp

 On 3/13/2016 5:54 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

 I agree with this statement 100%. I have said this about Trump for
 almost six months now, and everyone laughed. I'm tired of the same ol' 
 same
 ol' lifetime politicians that take money from special interest 
 groups
 to keep everything running.

 It's time for a change. Say what you want about Trump, but even
 Fortune magazine has him at a $5 Billion Net Worth. Even if he did 
 start
 with $1 million from his dad 40 years ago, turning that into $5,000 
 million
 is pretty damn impressive.

 Travis

 On 3/13/2016 11:12 AM, Rory Conaway wrote:

 Seriously Jaime, craven lackeys?  I guess I’ve been called worse.
 Are you even curious why both the Republican establishment and George 
 Soros
 are both out to get him?  And don’t you want to find out what would 
 happen
 if we put a real businessman in the White House instead of some 
 stooge? As
 businessmen yourselves, I thought you would respect that.  Instead, 
 you are
 more interested in your ideology than your economic welfare.

 There are those of us who simply want someone in power for once who
 isn’t owned by the establishment.  If that’s Trump, so be it.  I’d take
 Triumph, the Insult Comic dog over anything the Democrats have and 
 clearly
 over Cruz or Rubio who have both tried to sell us out.  We are $19T in 
 debt
 and it’s getting worse.  Other countries are bleeding us dry.   Hope 
 and
 Change was a disaster and the corruption and immigration is worse, not
 better.  We are on the cusp of possibly electing the most evil liar 
 ever,
 Hillary Clinton, and you think Trump would be worse without having any 
 idea
 how he would govern.

 Wow.

 Rory

 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
 Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:36 AM
 *To:* Animal Farm
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Attack on trump" video

 If someone really wants to get him no secret service is going to
 prevent it...and it doesn't have to a gun.   I don't want someone to 
 kill
 him.  Thats not what are about..  how ugly that someone in crowd yells 
 kill
 him about protester.Trumps followers are craven lackeys (old cold 
 war
 term- blind followers in simple language ).   Sounded like a gladiator
 event.   Sad

 On Mar 13, 2016 10:13 AM, "Josh Reynolds" 
 wrote:

 I had never watched this before, but I came across it today.

 https://video.twimg.com//ext_tw_video//708728294708015104//pu//vid//640x360//yHRkyZIQTjmheSW4.mp4

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

2016-03-15 Thread Matt Hardy

Gino, we learn about our new products from you here on the list ;)

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> Any announcements?
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

2016-03-15 Thread Adam Moffett


+1

I'm willing to bet that's the most common practice these days.

I know an older guy who uses a compass and then he takes orange marking 
paint and draws an arrow in the grass.  Honestly, it's not like the 
sector antenna has a rifle sight.  It's basically dead reckoning no 
matter what you use to make the reckoning.



On 3/15/2016 4:58 PM, Darren Shea wrote:


Honestly, we just pull up Google Earth, draw a line from the tower 
with the proper heading and look for landmarks against which to aim 
for sectors and coarse adjustment of BHs. I don’t know if it’s any 
more accurate, but it’s definitely on the same cost plane as standing 
in a field.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Edward Brooks
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 3:46 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and 
not even one reply to a valid question?!


On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:

Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to
the point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been
looking at a few of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight
AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner, Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That
being said we are also looking for a less expensive, but more
accurate than standing in a field looking back at the antenna,
option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?

Thanks,
-Ed

-- 
Edward Brooks

/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347





Avast logo 



This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

For AF24 alignment and similar (rooftop to rooftop) at the 4 to 5km range,
you can tie a 2'x2' piece of cardboard spray painted orange to the far end
AF24, while it's powered off, to help new or less experienced people
acquire aim on the building.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> We eyeball it. We look at a map, identify landmarks, and align based on
> that. For AF24 backhauls you can attach a scope on a rail to the side of it.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Edward Brooks  wrote:
>
>> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and
>> not even one reply to a valid question?!
>>
>>
>> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>>
>> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
>> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
>> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
>> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
>> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
>> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
>> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Ed
>> --
>> Edward Brooks
>>
>> *Network Operations Project Manager Montana Internet Corporation*
>> 406-443-3347
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com 
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

tie a string to the remote antenna, its the best way

but if you do find a cood, affordable and reliable solution, let me know

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Edward Brooks  wrote:

> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and not
> even one reply to a valid question?!
>
>
> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>
> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>
> Thanks,
> -Ed
> --
> Edward Brooks
>
> *Network Operations Project Manager Montana Internet Corporation*
> 406-443-3347
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Absolutely. With this compass you really can't be within 5-10 feet of
any large metallic object and expect good results. Walking 100' away
from the tower and shooting a back azimuth is the way to go.

However, it's usually good for 1 degree resolution if you know how to
use it.

On 3/15/2016 1:57 PM, Edward Brooks wrote:
Bill, have you had any issues with the tower itself causing "issues"
with the compass?

On 3/15/2016 2:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
We use a Suunto precision compass for initial alignment
(http://www.suunto.com/en-US/Products/Compasses/Suunto-Tandem/Suunto-Tandem-360PC-360R-G-Clino-Compass/).

However, we will make adjustments based on signal levels we get at
the subscriber end.

On 3/15/2016 1:46 PM, Edward Brooks wrote:
Anyone!!?? I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here
and not even one reply to a valid question?!

On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to
the point of being unreliable and now useless. We have been
looking at a few of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight
AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner, Multiwave SmartAlign to rent. That
being said we are also looking for a less expensive, but more
accurate than standing in a field looking back at the antenna,
option to purchase. What are some of you using to accurately align
your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?

Thanks,
-Ed
--
Edward Brooks
/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347

Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

--
Edward Brooks
/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347

Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

2016-03-15 Thread Darren Shea

Honestly, we just pull up Google Earth, draw a line from the tower with the 
proper heading and look for landmarks against which to aim for sectors and 
coarse adjustment of BHs. I don’t know if it’s any more accurate, but it’s 
definitely on the same cost plane as standing in a field.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Edward Brooks
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 3:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and not even 
one reply to a valid question?!

On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:

Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the point of 
being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few of the 
obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner, Multiwave 
SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a less expensive, 
but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at the antenna, option 
to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately align your AP sectors 
and do initial BH deployment?

Thanks,
-Ed

-- 
Edward Brooks
Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation
406-443-3347

  _  

  Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
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Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

2016-03-15 Thread Edward Brooks

Bill, have you had any issues with the tower itself causing "issues"
with the compass?

However, we will make adjustments based on signal levels we get at the
subscriber end.

On 3/15/2016 1:46 PM, Edward Brooks wrote:
Anyone!!?? I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here
and not even one reply to a valid question?!

On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to
the point of being unreliable and now useless. We have been looking
at a few of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z
Antena Aligner, Multiwave SmartAlign to rent. That being said we
are also looking for a less expensive, but more accurate than
standing in a field looking back at the antenna, option to purchase.
What are some of you using to accurately align your AP sectors and
do initial BH deployment?

Thanks,
-Ed
--
Edward Brooks
/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347

Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

--
Edward Brooks
/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

We use a Suunto precision compass for initial alignment 
(http://www.suunto.com/en-US/Products/Compasses/Suunto-Tandem/Suunto-Tandem-360PC-360R-G-Clino-Compass/).


However, we will make adjustments based on signal levels we get at the 
subscriber end.


bp


On 3/15/2016 1:46 PM, Edward Brooks wrote:
Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and 
not even one reply to a valid question?!


On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the 
point of being unreliable and now useless. We have been looking at a 
few of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena 
Aligner, Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also 
looking for a less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a 
field looking back at the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some 
of you using to accurately align your AP sectors and do initial BH 
deployment?


Thanks,
-Ed
--
Edward Brooks
/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347





Avast logo   

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

We eyeball it. We look at a map, identify landmarks, and align based on
that. For AF24 backhauls you can attach a scope on a rail to the side of it.



On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Edward Brooks  wrote:

> Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and not
> even one reply to a valid question?!
>
>
> On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
>
> Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the
> point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a few
> of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena Aligner,
> Multiwave SmartAlign to rent.  That being said we are also looking for a
> less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a field looking back at
> the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some of you using to accurately
> align your AP sectors and do initial BH deployment?
>
> Thanks,
> -Ed
> --
> Edward Brooks
>
> *Network Operations Project Manager Montana Internet Corporation*
> 406-443-3347
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com 
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AP Sector Alignment

2016-03-15 Thread Edward Brooks

Anyone!!??  I watch posts about the strangest things go on in here and 
not even one reply to a valid question?!


On 3/10/2016 11:36 AM, Edward Brooks wrote:
Over the last year our "low-cost" digital compass has degraded to the 
point of being unreliable and now useless.  We have been looking at a 
few of the obviously expensive options, Sunsight AAT-30, 3Z Antena 
Aligner, Multiwave SmartAlign to rent. That being said we are also 
looking for a less expensive, but more accurate than standing in a 
field looking back at the antenna, option to purchase.  What are some 
of you using to accurately align your AP sectors and do initial BH 
deployment?


Thanks,
-Ed
--
Edward Brooks
/Network Operations Project Manager
Montana Internet Corporation/
406-443-3347




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] New Trango 24 ghz radio

Less expensive per link than a 1+0 configuration of the Stratalink 24 with
1', 2' or 3' dishes?  That's their previous 24 GHz 1024QAM single polarity
radio.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:

> I heard similar/better price then what is out now.
> On Mar 15, 2016 2:53 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>
>> https://www.trangosys.com/products/stratapro-series/
>>
>> price?
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New Trango 24 ghz radio

2016-03-15 Thread Joe Novak

I heard similar/better price then what is out now.
On Mar 15, 2016 2:53 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

> https://www.trangosys.com/products/stratapro-series/
>
> price?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

Hah :)

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Chris Wright  wrote:
> I think I’ll hold off upgrading until the Ansible model is released.
>
>
>
> Chris Wright
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Velociter Wireless
>
> 209-838-1221 x115
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:20 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?
>
>
>
> 8gb via future firmware, and 2/3/5 ghz compatibility via future firmware
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
> Well, I admit the price does seem a little high, but I think we could deal
> with that if it was a little faster... I just don't think that 4gbit/hz is
> going to be enough.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
> That's crazy!! How can they expect anyone to pay $32 for an access point. If
> it was $29 I would order 1,000 of them right now. LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
>
> On 3/15/2016 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> 4gbit/hz 900mhz systems full capacity 32 dollar access points 4 dollar cpe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
> Any announcements?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

2016-03-15 Thread Chris Wright

I think I’ll hold off upgrading until the Ansible model is released.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator
Velociter Wireless
209-838-1221 x115

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

8gb via future firmware, and 2/3/5 ghz compatibility via future firmware

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
Well, I admit the price does seem a little high, but I think we could deal with 
that if it was a little faster... I just don't think that 4gbit/hz is going to 
be enough.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Travis Johnson 
> wrote:
That's crazy!! How can they expect anyone to pay $32 for an access point. If it 
was $29 I would order 1,000 of them right now. LOL

Travis


On 3/15/2016 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
4gbit/hz 900mhz systems full capacity 32 dollar access points 4 dollar cpe



On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
Any announcements?



--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

8gb via future firmware, and 2/3/5 ghz compatibility via future firmware

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Mathew Howard 
wrote:

> Well, I admit the price does seem a little high, but I think we could deal
> with that if it was a little faster... I just don't think that 4gbit/hz is
> going to be enough.
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>> That's crazy!! How can they expect anyone to pay $32 for an access point.
>> If it was $29 I would order 1,000 of them right now. LOL
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/15/2016 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> 4gbit/hz 900mhz systems full capacity 32 dollar access points 4 dollar
>> cpe
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Any announcements?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] New Trango 24 ghz radio

ONE MILLION DOLLARS

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> https://www.trangosys.com/products/stratapro-series/
>
> price?
>

[AFMUG] New Trango 24 ghz radio

2016-03-15 Thread Gino Villarini

https://www.trangosys.com/products/stratapro-series/

price?

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone....

Does it involve theft and slave labor?

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> I've got a business plan we should talk about...
> On Mar 15, 2016 1:00 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
>> Steal the whole phone and sell it for $4?
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Keefe John 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I dont see how a phone could cost $4 even if it was built from stolen
>>> parts using slave labor.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/15/2016 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> You can buy TWO of these phones for less than you can buy lunch. Heck,
>>> you could buy 100 of these phones, and save $300 off the price of 1 iphone.
>>> I don't get it.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unboxing-video-reveals-wonders-4-android-phone-182430448.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone....

I've got a business plan we should talk about...
On Mar 15, 2016 1:00 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

> Steal the whole phone and sell it for $4?
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Keefe John 
> wrote:
>
>> I dont see how a phone could cost $4 even if it was built from stolen
>> parts using slave labor.
>>
>>
>> On 3/15/2016 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> You can buy TWO of these phones for less than you can buy lunch. Heck,
>> you could buy 100 of these phones, and save $300 off the price of 1 iphone.
>> I don't get it.
>>
>>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unboxing-video-reveals-wonders-4-android-phone-182430448.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone....

Steal the whole phone and sell it for $4?

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Keefe John  wrote:

> I dont see how a phone could cost $4 even if it was built from stolen
> parts using slave labor.
>
>
> On 3/15/2016 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> You can buy TWO of these phones for less than you can buy lunch. Heck, you
> could buy 100 of these phones, and save $300 off the price of 1 iphone. I
> don't get it.
>
>
> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unboxing-video-reveals-wonders-4-android-phone-182430448.html
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone....

2016-03-15 Thread Keefe John

I dont see how a phone could cost $4 even if it was built from stolen 
parts using slave labor.


On 3/15/2016 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
You can buy TWO of these phones for less than you can buy lunch. Heck, 
you could buy 100 of these phones, and save $300 off the price of 1 
iphone. I don't get it.



https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unboxing-video-reveals-wonders-4-android-phone-182430448.html




--

bp

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

Well, I admit the price does seem a little high, but I think we could deal
with that if it was a little faster... I just don't think that 4gbit/hz is
going to be enough.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> That's crazy!! How can they expect anyone to pay $32 for an access point.
> If it was $29 I would order 1,000 of them right now. LOL
>
> Travis
>
>
>
> On 3/15/2016 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> 4gbit/hz 900mhz systems full capacity 32 dollar access points 4 dollar cpe
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> Any announcements?
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>

[AFMUG] OT: The $4 Android phone....

You can buy TWO of these phones for less than you can buy lunch. Heck, 
you could buy 100 of these phones, and save $300 off the price of 1 
iphone. I don't get it.


   
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/unboxing-video-reveals-wonders-4-android-phone-182430448.html




--

bp

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

2016-03-15 Thread Keefe John


Some fancy mimosa stuff.

On 3/15/2016 10:48 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Any announcements?

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

2016-03-15 Thread Travis Johnson

That's crazy!! How can they expect anyone to pay $32 for an access 
point. If it was $29 I would order 1,000 of them right now. LOL


Travis


On 3/15/2016 9:50 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
4gbit/hz 900mhz systems full capacity 32 dollar access points 4 dollar 
cpe




On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Gino Villarini > wrote:


Any announcements?




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

We’re all going to be rich!!

Hahahaha!

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

4gbit/hz 900mhz systems full capacity 32 dollar access points 4 dollar cpe 

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

  Any announcements? 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

4gbit/hz 900mhz systems full capacity 32 dollar access points 4 dollar cpe



On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> Any announcements?
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] Any News from Wispamerica?

2016-03-15 Thread Gino Villarini

Any announcements?

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

Uhm Alaska is behind you and would like a word :)

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Jon Bruce
 wrote:
> Also, Canada is bigger and on top, if this were prison, USA would be the
> b**ch.
>
>
> On 3/15/2016 10:55 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying so hard to not respond ;)
>>
>> Canada would be the country that years ago invaded the US and burned down
>> the White House ... my how times have changed! haha
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:34 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650
>>
>> What's a Canada?
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Jon Bruce 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hockey stick for Canada?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/14/2016 5:29 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>>>
>>> Now do this with a Cricket bat for your overseas market in ZA, IN, PK,
>>> BD, NZ, AU, UK...  :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> 
>>> wrote:

 Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham"
 
 wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0
>
>
>
> The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a
> radio a worse beating?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Alex Marcham
>
> Engineering
>
> alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com
>
>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

2016-03-15 Thread Jon Bruce

Also, Canada is bigger and on top, if this were prison, USA would be the 
b**ch.


On 3/15/2016 10:55 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:

I'm trying so hard to not respond ;)

Canada would be the country that years ago invaded the US and burned down the 
White House ... my how times have changed! haha

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

What's a Canada?

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Jon Bruce  
wrote:

Hockey stick for Canada?


On 3/14/2016 5:29 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Now do this with a Cricket bat for your overseas market in ZA, IN, PK,
BD, NZ, AU, UK...  :-)



On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Josh Luthman

wrote:

Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham"

wrote:

Hi All,



We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0



The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a
radio a worse beating?



Thanks,



Alex Marcham

Engineering

alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com

Re: [AFMUG] this list


But we're all happy with you Steve.   ;-)

bp


On 3/15/2016 7:18 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:


I'm never happy with anybody, but that's not politics

On Mar 15, 2016 9:06 AM, "Glen Waldrop" > wrote:


I’ve been avoiding the list for the most part the past few days.

Often I come here to read tech without getting into politics.

There have been a few instances where it has gone too far, though
I think it was pulled back just in time.

Everyone, just take a breath. We’re all on the same side. Those
making broad comments for us (media, elected officials, etc) are
all FULL OF SHIT. They’re making ratings or getting attention.

Aside from a few issues, 90% of us don’t give a crap what each
other does as long as it doesn’t involve us. The other 10% will
never be happy anyway.
*From:* Paul Stewart 
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 6:06 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list

Well said… I love to argue too – meaning all in good fun and often
results in good constructive debate…. ;)

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com

*Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:44 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] this list

One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and
the ability to discuss religion and politics without any major
flame wars.

We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most
part.  I think most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of
those that differ from us.

I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I
believe just for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue
tongue in cheek statements.

Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat
or proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.
Apologies to those that have make taken me too seriously.  I am
not ashamed of any of my beliefs, but I respect your right to have
yours too.  (even though they are wrong... Winking smile)

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

2016-03-15 Thread Paul Stewart

I'm trying so hard to not respond ;)

Canada would be the country that years ago invaded the US and burned down the 
White House ... my how times have changed! haha

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650

What's a Canada?

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Jon Bruce  
wrote:
> Hockey stick for Canada?
>
>
> On 3/14/2016 5:29 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> Now do this with a Cricket bat for your overseas market in ZA, IN, PK, 
> BD, NZ, AU, UK...  :-)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Josh Luthman 
> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Give me a couple 650 and a bat.  I'll show you.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Mar 14, 2016 4:25 PM, "Alex Marcham" 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We just did some unorthodox reliability testing with the PTP 650:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJcoNHmgE0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The radio works fine but my bat has seen better days. Anyone given a 
>>> radio a worse beating?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alex Marcham
>>>
>>> Engineering
>>>
>>> alex.marc...@cambiumnetworks.com
>>>
>>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

I think they make a pill for that...

Damitol, I think it’s called...

From: Ty Featherling 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

No that's genetics. 

-Ty

-Ty

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:18 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  I'm never happy with anybody, but that's not politics

  On Mar 15, 2016 9:06 AM, "Glen Waldrop"  wrote:

I’ve been avoiding the list for the most part the past few days.

Often I come here to read tech without getting into politics.

There have been a few instances where it has gone too far, though I think 
it was pulled back just in time.

Everyone, just take a breath. We’re all on the same side. Those making 
broad comments for us (media, elected officials, etc) are all FULL OF SHIT. 
They’re making ratings or getting attention.

Aside from a few issues, 90% of us don’t give a crap what each other does 
as long as it doesn’t involve us. The other 10% will never be happy anyway.

From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 6:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

Well said… I love to argue too – meaning all in good fun and often results 
in good constructive debate…. ;)

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] this list

One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the 
ability to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.  

We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most part.  I 
think most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those that differ from us. 

I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I believe 
just for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue in cheek 
statements.

Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or 
proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to those 
that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any of my beliefs, 
but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even though they are wrong... )

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

Well said.

From: justsumname . 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 1:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

The difference between 1968 and now, is, Saul Alinksy had not written his book, 
telling his fellow rabble-rousers how to disrupt and destroy a political system 
without resorting to murder and general violence. 

The difference between 1968 and now, is, if a "political activist" up and 
attacked you (presumably for holding different political views), we weren't so 
"politically correct" such that you *could* respond by punching the jerk's 
lights out and the cops would arrest the 'activist'.  Why?   Because everyone 
pretty much had a sense of 'right and wrong' and everyone knew that attacking 
someone was wrong and not tolerated at all.   Also, the "individual Citizen" 
and private property was held in much higher esteem -- defending both with 
effective force was not a crime.

The difference between 1968 and now, is, the US Constitution was still taught 
in schools and people had a damn clue when they discussed USA political issues. 
  Nowadays, we're just mobs with a cause, easily (mis)led by false but 
emotionally-charged rhetoric and a false incarnation of "victim".

There also weren't very many years difference between 1968 and Senator 
McAurthy's statements that "communists are infiltrating our educational 
institutions, our media and our govt".   Nowadays... all three are stuffed 
overflowing with America-hating voices and political powers.   The guy sounds a 
little crazy but he got that part right.

In 1968, people still knew what words meant and therefore agreed on their 
meaning.   Which also meant the 'rule of law' could possibly exist.

There's also a movement afoot in the USA (alas the whole world, really); 
greater than even Black Lives Matter.   Even though the 'root cause' of BLM has 
a bit of a point:  blacks have been crapped on by... some 'authorities' -- 
including the ones they vote for this bigger movement is called Facts Don't 
Matter.

This is true even among creatively intelligent people.  You see, even though, 
for example, Mr Trump has never said that he wants to, or is going to ... 
'round up and deport all Hispanic peoples'... you can read it here, presented 
as 'fact'.   Another example:   Trump's supporters don't go to Hillary or 
Bernie rallies and disrupt their right to political assembly, but oh, it's 
Trump's fault that the OTHER supporters go to Trump's rallies and disrupt his 
thing and then a scuffle breaks out and then the narrative becomes "Trump 
and/or his supporters are violent".   Damn.   Taken right out of Alinsky's 
textbook!   Accuse the OTHER side of the very thing YOU are doing.   Of course 
this works best when the "media" is all down with it all...

Ahhh I have been telling people for quite a few years that the 'United 
States is being destroyed', crazy foo' that I am!   Citizen status is being 
diluted and dissolved.   The international, physical boundary (the foundation 
of private land / property ownership) is being diluted and dissolved.The 
elections have no verifiable integrity (but many of us still call the USA a 
'democracy'... wow the idiocy).   Arbitrarily-defined "civil rights" now 
supercede tangible, measurable, legally tactile property rights.  Courts are 
*impossibly* overloaded.   The national 'money' is just fancy paper.  It says 
it's guaranteed by the US Govt.   Fine.   Except the US Govt is in debt more 
than the size of the GDP.   So... uhm... what the hell does the money mean now? 
  (and the big Federal "bank", aka Reserve, is in debt something like 5 or 6 
trillion due to several years of 'quantitative easing'.   heh... I don't know 
what the hell that means!   It sounds like a book-nerd term for 'masturbation' 
though!   Which is better than raping, although it's okay if the muslims rape, 
because, well, we don't know, really, why we let them get away with it 
Look, a squirrel!!)

And lastly, the last thing to go before a 'nation' falls off the cliff is, the 
fourth thing which makes up a 'nation':  the rule of law.   Mr Obama holds a 
few note-worthy records, some have been mentioned already.   I will point out 
that he holds the highest record of being ruled against by the US Supreme Court 
by a 9-0 majority.  Yeah, as in 'unanimously against him'.  So what does he do 
when he doesn't get his way with a court that he helped stack with two of his 
own stooges?   F'you, he does what he wants anyway!   I mean, seriously, who 
duh hell is gonna arrest the PRESIDENT??   And, given for what passes as 
'political discourse' in our country today:  since I didn't vote for Obama in 
2008 or 2012, I am, 'therefore', "logically" (as in Monty Python logically), a 
"racist".   Anyway, let's pretend that's a 'fact' (cuz remember that Facts 
Don't Matter) and I am a "racist" for NOT voting for that domestic enemy... 
okay... ready... here comes... Who Is Gonna Arrest the BLACK president??

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?


Well said.

Gary Johnson might be close to that, but I haven't actually heard him speak, 
just read his stuff.


I like the libertarian ideas, "We're going to take over the country and 
leave everyone the hell alone."





-Original Message- 
From: George Skorup

Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 12:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?


My dad is a union democrat who is admittedly socialist, so Sanders is
his guy. Now on the flip side, one of his brothers thought Reagan was
the greatest president ever. All I remember is Christmas dinner as a kid
and those two screaming at each other. Over fucking politics. And then
my grandma kicked them out to the garage. So that's what I think we need
today. Someone that can kick the extremists to the garage so the rest of
us can have a civil conversation. That candidate doesn't seem to exist
currently.

Re: [AFMUG] this list

No that's genetics.

-Ty



-Ty

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:18 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm never happy with anybody, but that's not politics
> On Mar 15, 2016 9:06 AM, "Glen Waldrop"  wrote:
>
>> I’ve been avoiding the list for the most part the past few days.
>>
>> Often I come here to read tech without getting into politics.
>>
>> There have been a few instances where it has gone too far, though I think
>> it was pulled back just in time.
>>
>> Everyone, just take a breath. We’re all on the same side. Those making
>> broad comments for us (media, elected officials, etc) are all FULL OF SHIT.
>> They’re making ratings or getting attention.
>>
>> Aside from a few issues, 90% of us don’t give a crap what each other does
>> as long as it doesn’t involve us. The other 10% will never be happy anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Paul Stewart 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 6:06 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>>
>>
>> Well said… I love to argue too – meaning all in good fun and often
>> results in good constructive debate…. ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:44 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] this list
>>
>>
>>
>> One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the
>> ability to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.
>>
>>
>>
>> We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most part.  I
>> think most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those that differ from
>> us.
>>
>>
>>
>> I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I believe
>> just for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue in cheek
>> statements.
>>
>>
>>
>> Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or
>> proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to those
>> that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any of my
>> beliefs, but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even though they are
>> wrong... [image: Winking smile])
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

I'm never happy with anybody, but that's not politics
On Mar 15, 2016 9:06 AM, "Glen Waldrop"  wrote:

> I’ve been avoiding the list for the most part the past few days.
>
> Often I come here to read tech without getting into politics.
>
> There have been a few instances where it has gone too far, though I think
> it was pulled back just in time.
>
> Everyone, just take a breath. We’re all on the same side. Those making
> broad comments for us (media, elected officials, etc) are all FULL OF SHIT.
> They’re making ratings or getting attention.
>
> Aside from a few issues, 90% of us don’t give a crap what each other does
> as long as it doesn’t involve us. The other 10% will never be happy anyway.
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul Stewart 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2016 6:06 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] this list
>
>
> Well said… I love to argue too – meaning all in good fun and often results
> in good constructive debate…. ;)
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 2:44 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] this list
>
>
>
> One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the
> ability to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.
>
>
>
> We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most part.  I
> think most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those that differ from
> us.
>
>
>
> I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I believe
> just for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue in cheek
> statements.
>
>
>
> Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or
> proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to those
> that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any of my
> beliefs, but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even though they are
> wrong... [image: Winking smile])
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

Heh, bass man... and I suck at it.

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley

Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 7:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

And how many of us actually know how to play the banjo?

Glen Waldrop wrote:

For contrast, I’m in rural Alabama as well. It is a 50/50 split here.
We get along fine.

It is funny how I keep hearing about how racist we are in the south from a 
bunch of people that have less than 10% non-whites living in their home 
towns.

*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
*Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2016 12:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?
Jaime.I'm in rural Alabama.  You know this.  My city has probably 5 
blacks that live here.  (and don't get me wrong, I work with a black man 
on a regular basis and he's one of the hardest workers i have - i have 
absolutely no issues with him).   That being said,  racism here was 
totally generational when I was growing up.  If you were old, you had some 
racism still in your blood.  No one my age or younger cared - it never 
came up - and we just looked at old people funny and understood.

For some reason, now, it is not really like that anymore.
What changed?

- Original Message -
*From:* Jaime Solorza 
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Sent:* Saturday, March 12, 2016 11:27 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Is it 1968 all over?

Hold up partner...first let's agree that we can disagree and still
have a beer together.Our founding fathers were men just like
you and me...sinners and not perfect while the intent of
Constitution said one thing...the reality was way different for
the Native Americans and African Americans.  Entire nations wiped
out or moved to reservationsvisit some in your beautiful state
of Arizona...I am sure they will be happy to hear your speech..or
go to Cabrini Green in Chicago... oh wait...it's gone...go to
parts of the south and east and talk to them about the
constitution.Learn the language... yes   that ln makes
sense...on same token...look at most folks in Europe and Asia..and
more now in Middle East...they speak several languagesrespect
our heritage?   Don't think so Bubba...how quickly you forget
signs in restaurants and hotels
..No Dogs, Negroes or Mexicans Allowed.  Jim Crow era, KKK era,
voting and gerrymandered ploys to keep Republicans in office even
when population didn't reflect it, second rate education and
facilities for minorities..sending minorities in greater numbers
compared to whites to 'NAM...why do you think the hippies came up
in 60s?  If you say drugs you are wrong...why protest of
convention in Chicago?  And it was the Democratic Convention not
Republican.   So I don't know what great heritage you are talking
about.  I think it's great that folks keep in touch with their
cultureAmerica is Not the Borg we can't all be blue eyed
blonde folks.  That would be too Twilight Zone stop listening
to talk shows and Fox TV...try something novel...reading a history
book..but not one printed in Texasajuuaaa

On Mar 12, 2016 9:56 AM, "Rory Conaway" > wrote:

You know what Ken, let’s do this.

You need me to sound racist because your liberal mindset is
that everyone is a victim.  I probably have a much wider
diversity of friends, business partners, and colleagues than
you do and never has anyone ever called me racist.  Because I
abhor racial division and call it out for what it is, an
excuse for failure and control by race hustlers, I’m a
racist.  That’s the pea-brained mentality of the
intellectually dishonest.  You simply can’t understand that
there are those of us who don’t care about race, we simply
don’t have time for it in our lives and we don’t see it. However, 
we can define the problems created by race, race

hustlers, and liberals who don’t want to face facts, just
blame everyone else for their problems and failures.

What I care about is that there is a class of people that are
not assimilating into society because nobody wants to face the
facts.  You would rather stick your head in the sand and call
out those of us who see the truth racists.  Here is a fact,
not having a solid family support system, not following the
law, and not working hard is a recipe for failure, regardless
of the race.  If you don’t want to face that fact, so be it. Stick 
your head in the sand, blame me and call me names, and

stand by while our country falls apart because you don’t have
the intellectual honesty to face that fact that the greatest

Re: [AFMUG] this list

I’ve been avoiding the list for the most part the past few days.

Often I come here to read tech without getting into politics.

There have been a few instances where it has gone too far, though I think it 
was pulled back just in time.

Everyone, just take a breath. We’re all on the same side. Those making broad 
comments for us (media, elected officials, etc) are all FULL OF SHIT. They’re 
making ratings or getting attention.

Aside from a few issues, 90% of us don’t give a crap what each other does as 
long as it doesn’t involve us. The other 10% will never be happy anyway.



From: Paul Stewart 
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 6:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

Well said… I love to argue too – meaning all in good fun and often results in 
good constructive debate…. ;)

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] this list

 

One thing I love about this list, is the diversity of opinion and the ability 
to discuss religion and politics without any major flame wars.  

 

We can spar but when it gets too serous we back off for the most part.  I think 
most of us respect the beliefs and opinions of those that differ from us.   

 

I love to argue.  I will even argue the opposite point of what I believe just 
for the fun of argument.  And many times I argue tongue in cheek statements.

 

Always meant to have fun, perhaps inform, never meant to browbeat or 
proselytize or insult.  I hope y’all take it like that.  Apologies to those 
that have make taken me too seriously.  I am not ashamed of any of my beliefs, 
but I respect your right to have yours too.  (even though they are wrong... )

Re: [AFMUG] Antennas Behind Wood or Glass in Old Building?

Try to get a minimum of 2 wavelengths away and better up to 10.  Past 10 you 
will have pattern distortion but the impedance and gain will be unaffected.  
Or, get as far as you can.  If under 2 wavelengths expect weird behavior.  

From: Christopher Gray 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 10:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Antennas Behind Wood or Glass in Old Building?

Chuck,  

How far back should an antenna be from an obstruction (if the obstruction is 
mandatory and space is limited)? 

I found a nice paper with information about empirical RF loss testing through 
various materials. The main drawback is the tests are for 0.5-2 GHz and 3-8 GHz 
(skipping 2-3 GHz). Found here: 
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build97/art123.html

Glass test results starting page 141, and wood on page 147. Based on the 
published results, it seems I might expect signal loss in the 3 dB range when 
moving from behind glass to behind 1" boards, but I'm not sure I can be as far 
back as in their testing (1 m from the horn to the specimen).

-Chris

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

  hmm... looks like bacon is the way to go, if you can't use glass or ABS

  On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 5:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Well, glass, silicon dioxide is a good dielectric.  And dielectric 
materials can make RF lenses.  So if it is flat, it will not refract the signal 
and should faithfully transmit it with low loss.  

The amount of loss, assuming you are out of the reactive near field range, 
is related to a factor called the loss tangent or dissipation factor.  It is 
dependent on frequency.

Air =0  (depends on weather and atmospheric parameters)

Glass = .02  (decreases with higher frequency)
ABS plastic I use for radomes = .01

Wood = as much as .4   Commonly in the .02 range @ 3 GHz if dry. 
Walnut wood =   1.4 @ 10  MHz
Water = .157

Bacon (smoked) = .05

From: Christopher Gray 
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 4:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Antennas Behind Wood or Glass in Old Building?

The building is 200+ years old, so most of the glass is old enough. I've 
requested to replace some panes with acrylic sheets, but I don't think they 
will let me.  

Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like mounting behind glass is much 
preferred over wood. I have not found good loss estimates yet, but I haven't 
dug into it too far. 

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

  Old windows are not so bad RF transparency wise. It's even possible to 
use 80 GHz through glass in high rise office buildings that predate 1982 or so, 
when metallic coatings and special IR/UV coatings on windows started to become 
possible.

  It's the *new* windows you have to worry about.

  On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 7:37 PM, Christopher Gray 
 wrote:

I may have an opportunity to install some radios inside a steeple with 
some very specific requirements. I'm currently considering 5 GHz and 3.65 GHz 
radios for this location. I'd like to do some PTP and PMP links, but I cannot 
afford to lose too much.  

I have the option between mounting behind 1" thick solid boards, 2x 1" 
thick solid boards, or behind original windows. Are locations with such 
barriers even worth entertaining? If so, would it be best to ask for locations 
behind wood or glass?

Thanks you, Chris

Re: [AFMUG] Baseball bat vs PTP 650