Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Arm-chair quarterbacking ! 

in 11glhz(USA), license are issued in 80mhz or 40mhz chunks... the radios which 
will only use 56mhz of that 80mhz license. 
(so, if you think you have a '56mhz' license because that is what the radio is 
using ..., it is actually an 80mhz channel coordinated for you.) 

Changing Radios/ Antennas, requires an update... check with your coordinator on 
specifics and $$ 

Moving Radios from one site to another nearby site .. would require a 
coordination and new site location registration. 

You really should be asking these questions to your coordinator... they are all 
very good and fast at answering these types of questions.. 
Like all of us, they earn their living by serving their clients, and the more 
educated their clients are, the better it is for them. 

(FYI.. the Mimosa may or may not be licensed in the same manner as the integra 
would be licensed.. i.e. Integra 2+0 may or may not be an exact drop in match 
of your 80ghz Mimosa License...chances are very high that it is .. but you 
still need to double check that ). 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 2:10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

> It’s new work. But maybe only $1500 or less for the FCC paperwork. There’s no
> loopholes to be had.

> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.

> On Dec 14, 2017, at 12:01 AM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote:

>> So, as long as you're using the same channels, it's basically just updating 
>> the
>> hardware on the license, and you don't have to go through coordination or
>> anything like that? What about if you're currently using a 56mhz channel and 
>> go
>> up to 80mhz?

>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, Seth Mattinen < se...@rollernet.us > wrote:

>>> On 12/13/17 8:27 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

>>>> Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the 80 when we
>>>> relocate it? can we do that?

>>> In 11GHz your choices at the upper end are 40 or 80MHz channels. If you 
>>> want to
>>> run at any size above 40Mhz then you would ask to license an 80Mhz channel. 
>>> For
>>> example a SAF Lumina running at 56Mhz would license an 80MHz channel.

>>>> We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have nearer the end 
>>>> of our
>>>> network than closer. As long as we dont exceed EIRP and reuse the antenna, 
>>>> is
>>>> there anything stopping us from just replacing these with the more stable
>>>> integra 2+0?

>>>> does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern stays the same
>>>> without exceeding the EIRP?

>>> Yes, you have to modify the license for any changes.

>>> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[Jon Langeler]

It’s new work. But maybe only $1500 or less for the FCC paperwork. There’s no 
loopholes to be had.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Dec 14, 2017, at 12:01 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> So, as long as you're using the same channels, it's basically just updating 
> the hardware on the license, and you don't have to go through coordination or 
> anything like that? What about if you're currently using a 56mhz channel and 
> go up to 80mhz?
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>> On 12/13/17 8:27 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> 
>>> Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the 80 when we 
>>> relocate it? can we do that?
>> 
>> In 11GHz your choices at the upper end are 40 or 80MHz channels. If you want 
>> to run at any size above 40Mhz then you would ask to license an 80Mhz 
>> channel. For example a SAF Lumina running at 56Mhz would license an 80MHz 
>> channel.
>> 
>>> 
>>> We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have nearer the end 
>>> of our network than closer. As long as we dont exceed EIRP and reuse the 
>>> antenna, is there anything stopping us from just replacing these with the 
>>> more stable integra 2+0?
>>> 
>>> does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern stays the same 
>>> without exceeding the EIRP?
>> 
>> Yes, you have to modify the license for any changes.
>> 
>> ~Seth
> 

Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[Steve Jones]

I like intellipath, but its probably better our vendor uses another. Ive
seen Liz Linkdn profile pic, and I drink. If I received a 1 am email from
her, id probably respond irresponsibly at that time of day

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:16 AM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> A path operating >40MHz is already on the 80MHz channel plan, so you'll
> likely be fine going from 56/60 to 80. You do not want to be responsible
> for interfering with another licensee, like public safety would be bad.
> Increasing channel bandwidth is a definite coordination because it could
> lead to a bucking scenario. Been there. Play it safe and always ask your
> coordinator, IMO. I like Liz @ Intelpath. She is extremely responsive and
> helpful. I picture her as Fry when he reaches 100 cups of coffee. No off
> switch. She sent me an email at like 1am and said my frequencies are clear
> and I can go ahead and change.
>
> On 12/13/2017 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> So, as long as you're using the same channels, it's basically just
> updating the hardware on the license, and you don't have to go through
> coordination or anything like that? What about if you're currently using a
> 56mhz channel and go up to 80mhz?
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, Seth Mattinen 
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/13/17 8:27 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the 80 when
>>> we relocate it? can we do that?
>>>
>>
>> In 11GHz your choices at the upper end are 40 or 80MHz channels. If you
>> want to run at any size above 40Mhz then you would ask to license an 80Mhz
>> channel. For example a SAF Lumina running at 56Mhz would license an 80MHz
>> channel.
>>
>>
>>> We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have nearer the
>>> end of our network than closer. As long as we dont exceed EIRP and reuse
>>> the antenna, is there anything stopping us from just replacing these with
>>> the more stable integra 2+0?
>>>
>>> does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern stays the
>>> same without exceeding the EIRP?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, you have to modify the license for any changes.
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[Steve Jones]

so, thats the B answer, I have no problem with that
What about the A?
Im not looking to skirt the system, Im too afraid of "the man" Im always
going to go B, Im just very curious. Like a well behaved housewife standing
by the oven looking out the window, while the neighbors wife, Linda is
throwing the Banquet meal box in the trash can.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:31 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> You have to modify the license if you change hardware like that but it’s
> easy and not expensive (cpl hundred $$ I think but don’t quote me)
>
> We do it all the time.  Upgrade the core and migrate equipment to the edge
> etc.
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:27 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> So, first off, Im now authorized to approve a $20k purchase. Not big
>> money to most of you, but Ive never had that dollar amount authority before
>> outside of my personal life.. woot woot
>>
>> Anyway, we are transferring a fiasco license from a mishap FRN to our FRN
>> while migrating to a SAF integra 11gz 1.2gbps link
>>
>> This got me thinking, we have a lumina link now that we can stick
>> somewhere.
>>
>> Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the 80 when we
>> relocate it? can we do that?
>>
>> We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have nearer the end
>> of our network than closer. As long as we dont exceed EIRP and reuse the
>> antenna, is there anything stopping us from just replacing these with the
>> more stable integra 2+0?
>>
>> does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern stays the same
>> without exceeding the EIRP?
>>
>> kind of looking for two answers
>> A. What can we "technically" get away with and not get in trouble
>> B. What do we lawfully have to do
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[George Skorup]

A path operating >40MHz is already on the 80MHz channel plan, so you'll 
likely be fine going from 56/60 to 80. You do not want to be responsible 
for interfering with another licensee, like public safety would be bad. 
Increasing channel bandwidth is a definite coordination because it could 
lead to a bucking scenario. Been there. Play it safe and always ask your 
coordinator, IMO. I like Liz @ Intelpath. She is extremely responsive 
and helpful. I picture her as Fry when he reaches 100 cups of coffee. No 
off switch. She sent me an email at like 1am and said my frequencies are 
clear and I can go ahead and change.


On 12/13/2017 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
So, as long as you're using the same channels, it's basically just 
updating the hardware on the license, and you don't have to go through 
coordination or anything like that? What about if you're currently 
using a 56mhz channel and go up to 80mhz?


On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, Seth Mattinen > wrote:


On 12/13/17 8:27 PM, Steve Jones wrote:


Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the
80 when we relocate it? can we do that?


In 11GHz your choices at the upper end are 40 or 80MHz channels.
If you want to run at any size above 40Mhz then you would ask to
license an 80Mhz channel. For example a SAF Lumina running at
56Mhz would license an 80MHz channel.


We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have
nearer the end of our network than closer. As long as we dont
exceed EIRP and reuse the antenna, is there anything stopping
us from just replacing these with the more stable integra 2+0?

does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern
stays the same without exceeding the EIRP?


Yes, you have to modify the license for any changes.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[Mathew Howard]

So, as long as you're using the same channels, it's basically just updating
the hardware on the license, and you don't have to go through coordination
or anything like that? What about if you're currently using a 56mhz channel
and go up to 80mhz?

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 12/13/17 8:27 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
>>
>> Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the 80 when we
>> relocate it? can we do that?
>>
>
> In 11GHz your choices at the upper end are 40 or 80MHz channels. If you
> want to run at any size above 40Mhz then you would ask to license an 80Mhz
> channel. For example a SAF Lumina running at 56Mhz would license an 80MHz
> channel.
>
>
>> We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have nearer the end
>> of our network than closer. As long as we dont exceed EIRP and reuse the
>> antenna, is there anything stopping us from just replacing these with the
>> more stable integra 2+0?
>>
>> does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern stays the same
>> without exceeding the EIRP?
>>
>
> Yes, you have to modify the license for any changes.
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/13/17 8:27 PM, Steve Jones wrote:


Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the 80 when 
we relocate it? can we do that?


In 11GHz your choices at the upper end are 40 or 80MHz channels. If you 
want to run at any size above 40Mhz then you would ask to license an 
80Mhz channel. For example a SAF Lumina running at 56Mhz would license 
an 80MHz channel.




We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have nearer the 
end of our network than closer. As long as we dont exceed EIRP and reuse 
the antenna, is there anything stopping us from just replacing these 
with the more stable integra 2+0?


does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern stays the 
same without exceeding the EIRP?


Yes, you have to modify the license for any changes.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[Sean Heskett]

You have to modify the license if you change hardware like that but it’s
easy and not expensive (cpl hundred $$ I think but don’t quote me)

We do it all the time.  Upgrade the core and migrate equipment to the edge
etc.

-Sean


On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:27 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> So, first off, Im now authorized to approve a $20k purchase. Not big money
> to most of you, but Ive never had that dollar amount authority before
> outside of my personal life.. woot woot
>
> Anyway, we are transferring a fiasco license from a mishap FRN to our FRN
> while migrating to a SAF integra 11gz 1.2gbps link
>
> This got me thinking, we have a lumina link now that we can stick
> somewhere.
>
> Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the 80 when we
> relocate it? can we do that?
>
> We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have nearer the end
> of our network than closer. As long as we dont exceed EIRP and reuse the
> antenna, is there anything stopping us from just replacing these with the
> more stable integra 2+0?
>
> does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern stays the same
> without exceeding the EIRP?
>
> kind of looking for two answers
> A. What can we "technically" get away with and not get in trouble
> B. What do we lawfully have to do
>
>

[AFMUG] FCC licensing for dummies

[Steve Jones]

So, first off, Im now authorized to approve a $20k purchase. Not big money
to most of you, but Ive never had that dollar amount authority before
outside of my personal life.. woot woot

Anyway, we are transferring a fiasco license from a mishap FRN to our FRN
while migrating to a SAF integra 11gz 1.2gbps link

This got me thinking, we have a lumina link now that we can stick somewhere.

Why not license that 57(60) mhz channel at 80 just to have the 80 when we
relocate it? can we do that?

We also have two mimosa links at 80 that id prefer to have nearer the end
of our network than closer. As long as we dont exceed EIRP and reuse the
antenna, is there anything stopping us from just replacing these with the
more stable integra 2+0?

does the fcc care if the hardware changes, but the pattern stays the same
without exceeding the EIRP?

kind of looking for two answers
A. What can we "technically" get away with and not get in trouble
B. What do we lawfully have to do