Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Joe]

We can do 22” without a problem, pulling the ¾” conduit.

 

Conduit costs more all the way around.

Big thing…. We are planning for the 100 year company.

 

If someone is just starting or needing to cut costs… looking at double armour 
and a chute.  Pulling may still be OK depending on the length of the run.

 

The questions are all about the goal-

   Long term

   Easy to repair and replace

   Value… if you want to be acquired in 20 years, conduit is better

   Ground conditions

   Housing type – city vs rural

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

Good to know.  I didn’t know Ditch Witch had such a beast.  How deep are you 
putting the drops?

 

From: Joe 

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

We did extensive testing…  

 

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute for 
¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our ground 
conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.

 

We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches of 
frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

 

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under cement 
driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing through 
fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

 

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a bullet 
with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers when 
we are “rolling black coal”

 

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach a 
carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

 

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

 

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

-Jason

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Joe]

Ground conditions dictate everything….. then cost and being practical


We have some houses we roll in with a $100K Vermeer RTX1250… and go 4ft deep…

Yes, a house…. Rural setting farmyard

 

We are a Vermeer shop, but we are all about “do it right” and Ditch Witch had 
the best for what we wanted

 

We also have a non-articulated RamRod on tracks too…. We buy tracks for 
everything possible.

 

This is what works for us…. Everyone will need to evaluate what works for them.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

How deep can the zahn go though? Last I looked, it was considerably lighter 
duty than the 410sx.

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Joe <j...@highspeedcrow.ca 
<mailto:j...@highspeedcrow.ca> > wrote:

We did extensive testing…  

 

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute for 
¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our ground 
conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.

 

We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches of 
frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

 

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under cement 
driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing through 
fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

 

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a bullet 
with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers when 
we are “rolling black coal”

 

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach a 
carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com 
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');> ] On Behalf Of Jason 
McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

 

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

 

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

-Jason

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Joe]

Big rocks… then expect to go up and down.  The Ditch Witch (Zahn) plow can work 
around it.

Shale…. Go bigger.  We are looking to add a track RTX750 with backhoe for that. 
 More $$.

The other option… go shallow, heavier wall conduit and double armour fiber.

 

Every manufacturer… will show “ideal conditions”.  And shale/rocks is not ideal…

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 6:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

What happens when the topsoil contains rocks the size of basketballs?  

 

What happens if it hits a shelf of shale?

 

They never seem to have that in the demonstration videos.  Google fails to 
answer these questions for me.

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Joe" <j...@highspeedcrow.ca <mailto:j...@highspeedcrow.ca> >

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Sent: 3/22/2017 10:54:09 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

We did extensive testing…  

 

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute for 
¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our ground 
conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.

 

We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches of 
frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

 

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under cement 
driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing through 
fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

 

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a bullet 
with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers when 
we are “rolling black coal”

 

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach a 
carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

 

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

 

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

-Jason

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Joe]

This one

https://www.ditchwitch.com/literature/R300/offline/download.pdf

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

Is it an R80?  That is the only one that seems tracked and articulated.

 

From: Joe 

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

We did extensive testing…  

 

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute for 
¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our ground 
conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.

 

We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches of 
frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

 

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under cement 
driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing through 
fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

 

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a bullet 
with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers when 
we are “rolling black coal”

 

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach a 
carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

 

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

 

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

-Jason

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Joe]

Dyn-o-mite…  :)

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 4:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

What about granite?

Never mind. I think I already know. 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
 

On 3/23/2017 1:41 PM, Gerard Dupont III wrote:

Basketball sized limestone rocks either deflect the bit, same as a pneumatic 
mole/missile, or the bit will crack the rock and still possibly deflect. It's 
not that uncommon to bore half way through and have to pull out and move over 
12" bc of a rock. It's easier/quicker to move than it is to try to go through a 
stubborn rock.  

 

We had one yesterday where we hit a limestone shelf and the bit got bound up 
and the torque from the machine snapped a drill rod in half. I don't know what 
a shale shelf will do. We haven't run into that yet.

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:48 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com 
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

What happens when the topsoil contains rocks the size of basketballs?  

 

What happens if it hits a shelf of shale?

 

They never seem to have that in the demonstration videos.  Google fails to 
answer these questions for me.

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Joe" <j...@highspeedcrow.ca <mailto:j...@highspeedcrow.ca> >

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Sent: 3/22/2017 10:54:09 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

We did extensive testing…  

 

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute for 
¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our ground 
conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.

 

We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches of 
frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

 

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under cement 
driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing through 
fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

 

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a bullet 
with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers when 
we are “rolling black coal”

 

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach a 
carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

 

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

 

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

-Jason

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

Sometimes the missile will hammer through were a HDD will just grind away.  
Rocks are bad no matter where you find them.  That is why Vermeer has a monster 
rock saw for trenching through it.  

From: Gerard Dupont III 
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 2:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

Basketball sized limestone rocks either deflect the bit, same as a pneumatic 
mole/missile, or the bit will crack the rock and still possibly deflect. It's 
not that uncommon to bore half way through and have to pull out and move over 
12" bc of a rock. It's easier/quicker to move than it is to try to go through a 
stubborn rock.  

We had one yesterday where we hit a limestone shelf and the bit got bound up 
and the torque from the machine snapped a drill rod in half. I don't know what 
a shale shelf will do. We haven't run into that yet.



On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:48 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  What happens when the topsoil contains rocks the size of basketballs?  

  What happens if it hits a shelf of shale?

  They never seem to have that in the demonstration videos.  Google fails to 
answer these questions for me.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Joe" <j...@highspeedcrow.ca>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/22/2017 10:54:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We did extensive testing…  



Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute 
for ¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our 
ground conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.



We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches 
of frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.



We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under 
cement driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing 
through fiber or a smaller conduit where needed



For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a 
bullet with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers 
when we are “rolling black coal”



We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach 
a carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow



I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.



I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know 
how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer 
drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  



Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?



Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg



Thanks.



-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Robert]

Just needs the special TriNitroTolulene attachment...

On 3/23/17 11:00 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

What about granite?

Never mind. I think I already know.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 3/23/2017 1:41 PM, Gerard Dupont III wrote:

Basketball sized limestone rocks either deflect the bit, same as a
pneumatic mole/missile, or the bit will crack the rock and still
possibly deflect. It's not that uncommon to bore half way through and
have to pull out and move over 12" bc of a rock. It's easier/quicker
to move than it is to try to go through a stubborn rock.

We had one yesterday where we hit a limestone shelf and the bit got
bound up and the torque from the machine snapped a drill rod in half.
I don't know what a shale shelf will do. We haven't run into that yet.



On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:48 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

What happens when the topsoil contains rocks the size of
basketballs?

What happens if it hits a shelf of shale?

They never seem to have that in the demonstration videos.  Google
fails to answer these questions for me.


-- Original Message --
From: "Joe" <j...@highspeedcrow.ca <mailto:j...@highspeedcrow.ca>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:54:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow


We did extensive testing…



Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good
with a chute for ¾” pipe.

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no
setting for the angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical
for our ground conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder
ground.



*We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and
articulated. *

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… /_even a
couple inches of frozen ground_/

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or
kellum grip (Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM>

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this
works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and
constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.



We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring
under cement driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM>

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before
pushing through fiber or a smaller conduit where needed



For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and
use a bullet with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the
farmers when we are “rolling black coal”



We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where
we attach a carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point…
the added work for the water/equipment was just a little bit too
much to be practical.  Another one we looked at was sending a
stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need the water
source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think
of how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground
easier with water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very
functional… just impractical in practice.





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow



I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The
options, as I see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX,
or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be using this for customer drops as
well as some main-runs.



I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I
don't know how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also
using it for customer drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX
also seems like it could be useful.



Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?



Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg



Thanks.



-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Bill Prince]

What about granite?

Never mind. I think I already know.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 3/23/2017 1:41 PM, Gerard Dupont III wrote:
Basketball sized limestone rocks either deflect the bit, same as a 
pneumatic mole/missile, or the bit will crack the rock and still 
possibly deflect. It's not that uncommon to bore half way through and 
have to pull out and move over 12" bc of a rock. It's easier/quicker 
to move than it is to try to go through a stubborn rock.


We had one yesterday where we hit a limestone shelf and the bit got 
bound up and the torque from the machine snapped a drill rod in half. 
I don't know what a shale shelf will do. We haven't run into that yet.




On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:48 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com 
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:


What happens when the topsoil contains rocks the size of basketballs?

What happens if it hits a shelf of shale?

They never seem to have that in the demonstration videos.  Google
fails to answer these questions for me.


-- Original Message --
From: "Joe" <j...@highspeedcrow.ca <mailto:j...@highspeedcrow.ca>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:54:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow


We did extensive testing…

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good
with a chute for ¾” pipe.

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no
setting for the angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical
for our ground conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder
ground.

*We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and
articulated. *

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… /_even a
couple inches of frozen ground_/

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or
kellum grip (Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM>

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this
works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and
constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring
under cement driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM>

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before
pushing through fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and
use a bullet with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the
farmers when we are “rolling black coal”

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where
we attach a carrot. The water helps for sure, but at some point…
the added work for the water/equipment was just a little bit too
much to be practical.  Another one we looked at was sending a
stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need the water
source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think
of how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground
easier with water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very
functional… just impractical in practice.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The
options, as I see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX,
or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be using this for customer drops as
well as some main-runs.

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I
don't know how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also
using it for customer drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX
also seems like it could be useful.

Anyone have experience with these machines? Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Gerard Dupont III]

Basketball sized limestone rocks either deflect the bit, same as a
pneumatic mole/missile, or the bit will crack the rock and still possibly
deflect. It's not that uncommon to bore half way through and have to pull
out and move over 12" bc of a rock. It's easier/quicker to move than it is
to try to go through a stubborn rock.

We had one yesterday where we hit a limestone shelf and the bit got bound
up and the torque from the machine snapped a drill rod in half. I don't
know what a shale shelf will do. We haven't run into that yet.



On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:48 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What happens when the topsoil contains rocks the size of basketballs?
>
> What happens if it hits a shelf of shale?
>
> They never seem to have that in the demonstration videos.  Google fails to
> answer these questions for me.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Joe" <j...@highspeedcrow.ca>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/22/2017 10:54:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> We did extensive testing…
>
>
>
> Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute
> for ¾” pipe.
>
> It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the
> angle when going shallow.
>
> We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our
> ground conditions
>
> Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.
>
>
>
> *We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. *
>
> The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions
>
> With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… *even a couple
> inches of frozen ground*
>
> We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip
> (Chinese finger trap)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM
>
> video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very
> well
>
> A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).
>
> Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed
>
> Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.
>
>
>
> We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under
> cement driveways.
>
> This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM
>
> make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing
> through fiber or a smaller conduit where needed
>
>
>
> For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a
> bullet with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”
>
> The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers
> when we are “rolling black coal”
>
>
>
> We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we
> attach a carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added
> work for the water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be
> practical.  Another one we looked at was sending a stream of water down the
> plow itself, but then we need the water source moving… and it used a lot of
> water to be effective.  Think of how a big tree mover sends the big knifes
> into the ground easier with water…that was the model we compared it to.
> Very functional… just impractical in practice.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
>
>
> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>
>
>
> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
> useful.
>
>
>
> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>
>
>
> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>
> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -Jason
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Jason McKemie]

Both have that option? Any advantage to either one? The 410 seems more
versatile.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> My guys use the DW 410 and Case Maxi Sneaker.  Almost daily they use the
> Roto Bore to go under driveways and sidewalks and small roads.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com
> > wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
>> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
>> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>>
>> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
>> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
>> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
>> useful.
>>
>> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>>
>> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck Hogg]

My guys use the DW 410 and Case Maxi Sneaker.  Almost daily they use the
Roto Bore to go under driveways and sidewalks and small roads.

Regards,
Chuck

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>
> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
> useful.
>
> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>
> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Jason
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Adam Moffett]

What happens when the topsoil contains rocks the size of basketballs?

What happens if it hits a shelf of shale?

They never seem to have that in the demonstration videos.  Google fails 
to answer these questions for me.



-- Original Message --
From: "Joe" <j...@highspeedcrow.ca>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:54:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow


We did extensive testing…



Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a 
chute for ¾” pipe.


It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for 
the angle when going shallow.


We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our 
ground conditions


Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder 
ground.




We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated.

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple 
inches of frozen ground


We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum 
grip (Chinese finger trap)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very 
well


A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant 
speed


Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.



We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under 
cement driveways.


This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing 
through fiber or a smaller conduit where needed




For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a 
bullet with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”


The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the 
farmers when we are “rolling black coal”




We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we 
attach a carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the 
added work for the water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be 
practical.  Another one we looked at was sending a stream of water down 
the plow itself, but then we need the water source moving… and it used 
a lot of water to be effective.  Think of how a big tree mover sends 
the big knifes into the ground easier with water…that was the model we 
compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical in practice.






From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow



I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I 
see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi 
Sneaker.  I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some 
main-runs.




I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't 
know how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for 
customer drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it 
could be useful.




Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?



Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg



Thanks.



-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Jason McKemie]

How deep can the zahn go though? Last I looked, it was considerably lighter
duty than the 410sx.

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Joe  wrote:

> We did extensive testing…
>
>
>
> Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute
> for ¾” pipe.
>
> It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the
> angle when going shallow.
>
> We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our
> ground conditions
>
> Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.
>
>
>
> *We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. *
>
> The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions
>
> With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… *even a couple
> inches of frozen ground*
>
> We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip
> (Chinese finger trap)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM
>
> video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very
> well
>
> A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).
>
> Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed
>
> Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.
>
>
>
> We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under
> cement driveways.
>
> This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM
>
> make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing
> through fiber or a smaller conduit where needed
>
>
>
> For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a
> bullet with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”
>
> The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers
> when we are “rolling black coal”
>
>
>
> We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we
> attach a carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added
> work for the water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be
> practical.  Another one we looked at was sending a stream of water down the
> plow itself, but then we need the water source moving… and it used a lot of
> water to be effective.  Think of how a big tree mover sends the big knifes
> into the ground easier with water…that was the model we compared it to.
> Very functional… just impractical in practice.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Jason
> McKemie
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
>
>
> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>
>
>
> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
> useful.
>
>
>
> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>
>
>
> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>
> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -Jason
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

Is it an R80?  That is the only one that seems tracked and articulated.

From: Joe 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We did extensive testing…  

 

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute for 
¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our ground 
conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.

 

We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches of 
frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

 

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under cement 
driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing through 
fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

 

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a bullet 
with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers when 
we are “rolling black coal”

 

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach a 
carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

 

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

 

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

-Jason

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

Good to know.  I didn’t know Ditch Witch had such a beast.  How deep are you 
putting the drops?

From: Joe 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We did extensive testing…  

 

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute for 
¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our ground 
conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.

 

We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches of 
frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

 

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under cement 
driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing through 
fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

 

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a bullet 
with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers when 
we are “rolling black coal”

 

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach a 
carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

 

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

 

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

-Jason

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

I have seen guys do this with a water pipe with water flowing through it.  Just 
work it back and forth.  They may have had a cap on it with holes.  In good 
digging it went right through.  

From: Gerard Dupont III 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

This is what we do but without the backreamer. 
https://youtube.com/watch?v=N_LS6u0BkKY


On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 9:47 PM Nate Burke <n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:

  Like this one?

  http://www.southern-tool.com/store/uw_boring_machines.php





  On 3/22/2017 7:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I don’t think I have ever seen this.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

Chuck you might be thinking of a different process. The compaction boring 
setup is just a small high-torque hydraulic drive on the plow that allows you 
to attach a short drill string. 10ft sections of solid steel shaft about 3/4" 
diameter with a compaction auger head on the end. You just make a short trench 
on one side, lay the bit in the trench and drill it through the ground by 
driving the machine forward. With good aim and a little luck you usually end up 
in a pretty good spot on the other side. Very fast and really no extra mess or 
equipment involved. Much less trouble than hauling out a huge compressor 
trailer.  

Chris 


On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty 
good job.
  Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.  

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.

  I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article 
about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct device?


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
        To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are 
somewhat tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. 
Ours has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these 
machines will tip if you do something stupid. 

The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an 
articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can plow a 
drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to fit 
through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the articulated 
machines. 

I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the 
drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a digger/excavator 
is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop machine. I would 
recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that much.  

That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what 
model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new exactly 
but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control lever style. 

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as 
I see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  
I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs. 

  I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't 
know how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for 
customer drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be 
useful.  

  Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

  Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
  http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg


  Thanks.

  -Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

What I am talking about is a hydra bore attachment for the maxi sneaker.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

Like this one?

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/uw_boring_machines.php




On 3/22/2017 7:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  I don’t think I have ever seen this.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  Chuck you might be thinking of a different process. The compaction boring 
setup is just a small high-torque hydraulic drive on the plow that allows you 
to attach a short drill string. 10ft sections of solid steel shaft about 3/4" 
diameter with a compaction auger head on the end. You just make a short trench 
on one side, lay the bit in the trench and drill it through the ground by 
driving the machine forward. With good aim and a little luck you usually end up 
in a pretty good spot on the other side. Very fast and really no extra mess or 
equipment involved. Much less trouble than hauling out a huge compressor 
trailer.  

  Chris 


  On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty good 
job.
Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.

I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article 
about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct device?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
      To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat 
tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours has 
been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these machines will 
tip if you do something stupid. 

  The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an 
articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can plow a 
drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to fit 
through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the articulated 
machines. 

  I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the 
drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a digger/excavator 
is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop machine. I would 
recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that much.  

  That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what 
model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new exactly 
but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control lever style. 

  On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I 
see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll 
be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs. 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't 
know how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for 
customer drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be 
useful.  

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg


Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Joe]

We did extensive testing…  

 

Our LM42 we bought was great with direct burial, but not good with a chute for 
¾” pipe. 

It was reliable, but in harder ground it was an issue – no setting for the 
angle when going shallow.

We even custom built a chute… great concept, but not practical for our ground 
conditions

Single tires with good rubber is OK, duals are better for harder ground.

 

We went with a zahn (mini skidsteer) that is tracked and articulated. 

The angle of the plow can be fully adjusted to the conditions

With a serrated blade, we can easily go through roots… even a couple inches of 
frozen ground

We use a “Bullet” style to pull the conduit with a carrot or kellum grip 
(Chinese finger trap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9JhOQYxbwM

video is for a silt fence, but it gives the idea of why this works very well

A team of 2 guys can easily do 5-8 houses in a short day (conduit).  

Tracks, and articulation….  Is the secret.  So is slow and constant speed

Rushing the install….. results in stretched/broken conduit.

 

We also bought the “mighty mole” attachment for compaction boring under cement 
driveways.

This wasn’t cheap, but it is very effective / clean / fast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGpRuNXjnM

make sure to sleeve under driveways with good conduit before pushing through 
fiber or a smaller conduit where needed

 

For some of the bigger acreages, we pull in with the RTX1250 and use a bullet 
with 3/4 conduit or chute with 1.5”

The ground disturbance is more, but doing this… it impresses the farmers when 
we are “rolling black coal”

 

We also protyped a conduit pressurized with water and a jet where we attach a 
carrot.  The water helps for sure, but at some point… the added work for the 
water/equipment was just a little bit too much to be practical.  Another one we 
looked at was sending a stream of water down the plow itself, but then we need 
the water source moving… and it used a lot of water to be effective.  Think of 
how a big tree mover sends the big knifes into the ground easier with 
water…that was the model we compared it to.  Very functional… just impractical 
in practice.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

 

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

 

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

 

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?

http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

 

Thanks.

 

-Jason

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Gerard Dupont III]

This is what we do but without the backreamer.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=N_LS6u0BkKY


On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 9:47 PM Nate Burke <n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:

> Like this one?
>
> http://www.southern-tool.com/store/uw_boring_machines.php
>
>
>
>
> On 3/22/2017 7:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I don’t think I have ever seen this.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> Chuck you might be thinking of a different process. The compaction boring
> setup is just a small high-torque hydraulic drive on the plow that allows
> you to attach a short drill string. 10ft sections of solid steel shaft
> about 3/4" diameter with a compaction auger head on the end. You just make
> a short trench on one side, lay the bit in the trench and drill it through
> the ground by driving the machine forward. With good aim and a little luck
> you usually end up in a pretty good spot on the other side. Very fast and
> really no extra mess or equipment involved. Much less trouble than hauling
> out a huge compressor trailer.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty
> good job.
> Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.
>
> I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article
> about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct
> device?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
>
> I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
> tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
> has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
> machines will tip if you do something stupid.
>
> The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
> articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
> plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
> fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
> articulated machines.
>
> I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
> drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
> digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
> machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
> much.
>
> That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
> model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
> exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
> lever style.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>
> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
> useful.
>
> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>
> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
> <http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg>http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Jason
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Nate Burke]

Like this one?

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/uw_boring_machines.php



On 3/22/2017 7:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I don’t think I have ever seen this.
*From:* Chris Fabien
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
Chuck you might be thinking of a different process. The compaction 
boring setup is just a small high-torque hydraulic drive on the plow 
that allows you to attach a short drill string. 10ft sections of solid 
steel shaft about 3/4" diameter with a compaction auger head on the 
end. You just make a short trench on one side, lay the bit in the 
trench and drill it through the ground by driving the machine forward. 
With good aim and a little luck you usually end up in a pretty good 
spot on the other side. Very fast and really no extra mess or 
equipment involved. Much less trouble than hauling out a huge 
compressor trailer.

Chris
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a
pretty good job.
Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your
enemies.
I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an
article about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that
the correct device?
-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.
*From:* Chris Fabien
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
    *To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are
somewhat tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they
help a lot. Ours has been rolled down into a ditch once with no
damage. Any of these machines will tip if you do something stupid.
The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker.
We can plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually
can find a way to fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think
is as manuverable as the articulated machines.
I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and
the drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my
customer drop machine. I would recommend a separate mini
excavator if you need one that much.
That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see
what model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not
sure how new exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they
have the older control lever style.
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The
options, as I see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch
410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be using this for customer
drops as well as some main-runs.
I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I
don't know how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm
also using it for customer drops.  The drill attachment for
the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.
Anyone have experience with these machines? Recommendations?
Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
Thanks.
-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck you might be thinking of a different process. The compaction boring
setup is just a small high-torque hydraulic drive on the plow that allows
you to attach a short drill string. 10ft sections of solid steel shaft
about 3/4" diameter with a compaction auger head on the end. You just make
a short trench on one side, lay the bit in the trench and drill it through
the ground by driving the machine forward. With good aim and a little luck
you usually end up in a pretty good spot on the other side. Very fast and
really no extra mess or equipment involved. Much less trouble than hauling
out a huge compressor trailer.

Chris


On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty
> good job.
> Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.
>
> I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article
> about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct
> device?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
>
> I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
> tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
> has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
> machines will tip if you do something stupid.
>
> The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
> articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
> plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
> fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
> articulated machines.
>
> I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
> drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
> digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
> machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
> much.
>
> That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
> model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
> exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
> lever style.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
>> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
>> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>>
>> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
>> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
>> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
>> useful.
>>
>> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>>
>> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chris Fabien]

In addition to using it to make a trench for the boring tool, we also find
it handy for crossing ditches that are too steep or wet to drive the
machine across. You can trench across a fairly wide trench if you can pull
the machine up to the edge on either side of it.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> What do you find that you use the trencher for? Getting close to things?
>
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Chris Fabien  wrote:
>
>> We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
>> tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
>> has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
>> machines will tip if you do something stupid.
>>
>> The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
>> articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
>> plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
>> fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
>> articulated machines.
>>
>> I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
>> drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
>> digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
>> machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
>> much.
>>
>> That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
>> model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
>> exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
>> lever style.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
>>> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
>>> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>>>
>>> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
>>> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
>>> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
>>> useful.
>>>
>>> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>>>
>>> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>>> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Gerard Dupont III]

No water is used with these. It uses a tapered dry compaction bit instead
of cutting a hole like the normal HDD rigs do.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> But you have to have water, right?
>
> *From:* Gerard Dupont III
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:22 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> We use the hell out of the roto witch on our 410sx to cross under
> sidewalks, driveways, and county roads. It doesn't need as large of an
> entry/exit pit as a mole does. It doesn't require us to bring an air
> compressor either.
>
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty
>> good job.
>> Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>>
>> I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.
>>
>> I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article
>> about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct
>> device?
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>>
>>
>> I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>>
>> We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
>> tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
>> has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
>> machines will tip if you do something stupid.
>>
>> The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
>> articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
>> plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
>> fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
>> articulated machines.
>>
>> I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
>> drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
>> digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
>> machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
>> much.
>>
>> That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
>> model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
>> exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
>> lever style.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
>>> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
>>> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>>>
>>> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
>>> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
>>> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
>>> useful.
>>>
>>> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>>>
>>> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>>> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Adam Moffett]

They don't use water in the demonstration videos I've watched.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/22/2017 12:31:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow


But you have to have water, right?

From:Gerard Dupont III
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:22 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We use the hell out of the roto witch on our 410sx to cross under 
sidewalks, driveways, and county roads. It doesn't need as large of an 
entry/exit pit as a mole does. It doesn't require us to bring an air 
compressor either.


On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty 
good job.

Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.

From:Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your 
enemies.


I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an 
article about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the 
correct device?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow


I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.

From:Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are 
somewhat tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they 
help a lot. Ours has been rolled down into a ditch once with no 
damage. Any of these machines will tip if you do something stupid.


The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an 
articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We 
can plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can 
find a way to fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as 
manuverable as the articulated machines.


I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the 
drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a 
digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my 
customer drop machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if 
you need one that much.


That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see 
what model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure 
how new exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the 
older control lever style.


On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, 
as I see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi 
Sneaker.  I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some 
main-runs.


I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't 
know how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it 
for customer drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems 
like it could be useful.


Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

But you have to have water, right?

From: Gerard Dupont III 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:22 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We use the hell out of the roto witch on our 410sx to cross under sidewalks, 
driveways, and county roads. It doesn't need as large of an entry/exit pit as a 
mole does. It doesn't require us to bring an air compressor either.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty good 
job.
  Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.  

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.

  I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article 
about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct device?


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
    To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat 
tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours has 
been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these machines will 
tip if you do something stupid. 

The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an 
articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can plow a 
drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to fit 
through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the articulated 
machines. 

I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the 
drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a digger/excavator 
is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop machine. I would 
recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that much.  

That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what 
model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new exactly 
but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control lever style. 

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I 
see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll 
be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs. 

  I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know 
how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer 
drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

  Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

  Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
  http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg


  Thanks.

  -Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Gerard Dupont III]

We use the hell out of the roto witch on our 410sx to cross under
sidewalks, driveways, and county roads. It doesn't need as large of an
entry/exit pit as a mole does. It doesn't require us to bring an air
compressor either.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty
> good job.
> Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.
>
> I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article
> about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct
> device?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
>
> I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
> tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
> has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
> machines will tip if you do something stupid.
>
> The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
> articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
> plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
> fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
> articulated machines.
>
> I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
> drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
> digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
> machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
> much.
>
> That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
> model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
> exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
> lever style.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
>> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
>> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>>
>> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
>> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
>> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
>> useful.
>>
>> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>>
>> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

Trenchers are nice for when you want to lay 1.25” duct.  Smaller plows will not 
plow that size.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

What do you find that you use the trencher for? Getting close to things?

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

  We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat 
tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours has 
been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these machines will 
tip if you do something stupid. 

  The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an articulated 
machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can plow a drop in 
through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to fit through the 
trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the articulated machines. 

  I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the drill/bore 
attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a digger/excavator is handy 
but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop machine. I would recommend a 
separate mini excavator if you need one that much.  

  That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what model, 
but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new exactly but 
ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control lever style. 

  On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs. 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know 
how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer 
drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg


Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

Search on mole missile pneumatic boring tool.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty good job.
Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.

I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article about 
some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct device?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat 
tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours has 
been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these machines will 
tip if you do something stupid. 

  The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an articulated 
machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can plow a drop in 
through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to fit through the 
trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the articulated machines. 

  I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the drill/bore 
attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a digger/excavator is handy 
but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop machine. I would recommend a 
separate mini excavator if you need one that much.  

  That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what model, 
but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new exactly but 
ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control lever style. 

  On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs. 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know 
how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer 
drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg


Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty good job.
Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.

I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article about 
some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct device?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

  We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat 
tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours has 
been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these machines will 
tip if you do something stupid. 

  The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an articulated 
machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can plow a drop in 
through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to fit through the 
trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the articulated machines. 

  I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the drill/bore 
attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a digger/excavator is handy 
but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop machine. I would recommend a 
separate mini excavator if you need one that much.  

  That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what model, 
but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new exactly but 
ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control lever style. 

  On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs. 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know 
how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer 
drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg


Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Adam Moffett]

I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.

I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article 
about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct 
device?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow


I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.

From:Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are 
somewhat tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help 
a lot. Ours has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any 
of these machines will tip if you do something stupid.


The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an 
articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We 
can plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find 
a way to fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as 
manuverable as the articulated machines.


I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the 
drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a 
digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer 
drop machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need 
one that much.


That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what 
model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new 
exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control 
lever style.


On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as 
I see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi 
Sneaker.  I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some 
main-runs.


I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't 
know how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it 
for customer drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems 
like it could be useful.


Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat tippy 
as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours has been 
rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these machines will tip if 
you do something stupid. 

The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an articulated 
machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can plow a drop in 
through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to fit through the 
trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the articulated machines. 

I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the drill/bore 
attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a digger/excavator is handy 
but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop machine. I would recommend a 
separate mini excavator if you need one that much.  

That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what model, 
but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new exactly but 
ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control lever style. 

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs. 

  I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

  Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

  Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
  http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg


  Thanks.

  -Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chris Fabien]

We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
machines will tip if you do something stupid.

The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
articulated machines.

I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
much.

That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
lever style.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>
> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
> useful.
>
> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>
> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Jason
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Craig Schmaderer]

I will try to remember to take a picture of it tomorrow and ask the guys. I own 
so many things now I don't even know how to turn it own.



From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:36:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I didn't realize that the 410sx had that option. Is it very difficult to 
attach/remove?

On Tuesday, March 21, 2017, Craig Schmaderer 
<cr...@skywaveconnect.com<mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com>> wrote:
We have a 410sx works good. Also have the backhoe atchment it comes in handy.  
I plan on getting a r300 quad track plow for microduct next year.



From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:26:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I never found the drill attachment on the Ditch Witch to be very useful.
I have used the maxi sneaker many times.  They used to be terribly top heavy.  
I rolled one on a side hill once.

Mini excavators are nice for start and end holes.

From: Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Jason McKemie]

I didn't realize that the 410sx had that option. Is it very difficult to
attach/remove?

On Tuesday, March 21, 2017, Craig Schmaderer <cr...@skywaveconnect.com>
wrote:

> We have a 410sx works good. Also have the backhoe atchment it comes in
> handy.  I plan on getting a r300 quad track plow for microduct next year.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Af <af-boun...@afmug.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af-boun...@afmug.com');>> on behalf of
> Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ch...@wbmfg.com');>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:26:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> I never found the drill attachment on the Ditch Witch to be very useful.
> I have used the maxi sneaker many times.  They used to be terribly top
> heavy.  I rolled one on a side hill once.
>
> Mini excavators are nice for start and end holes.
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:54 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>
> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
> useful.
>
> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>
> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Jason
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Craig Schmaderer]

We have a 410sx works good. Also have the backhoe atchment it comes in handy.  
I plan on getting a r300 quad track plow for microduct next year.



From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:26:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I never found the drill attachment on the Ditch Witch to be very useful.
I have used the maxi sneaker many times.  They used to be terribly top heavy.  
I rolled one on a side hill once.

Mini excavators are nice for start and end holes.

From: Jason McKemie
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg

Thanks.

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chuck McCown]

I never found the drill attachment on the Ditch Witch to be very useful.  
I have used the maxi sneaker many times.  They used to be terribly top heavy.  
I rolled one on a side hill once. 

Mini excavators are nice for start and end holes.   

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I see 
them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.  I'll be 
using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs. 

I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know how 
limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer drops.  
The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be useful.  

Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?

Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg


Thanks.

-Jason