Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[ATMunn .]

Wait, did I not send it to a-b again? Crap.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:29 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

>
> > On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> >
> > [Okay. I think I've got it as I want. I'm going to pend it now, and this
> time for real.]
> > I retract the proposal "Cheer Up v6?" and create and pend the following
> proposal in its place:
>
> With AP or with shinies? (Remember to send your reply to a-b!)
>
> -o
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[ATMunn .]

Oh, you mean for when I post a new reply. Okay.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:27 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:

> Wait, did I not send it to a-b again? Crap.
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:29 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
>> >
>> > [Okay. I think I've got it as I want. I'm going to pend it now, and
>> this time for real.]
>> > I retract the proposal "Cheer Up v6?" and create and pend the following
>> proposal in its place:
>>
>> With AP or with shinies? (Remember to send your reply to a-b!)
>>
>> -o
>>
>>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> 
> [Okay. I think I've got it as I want. I'm going to pend it now, and this time 
> for real.]
> I retract the proposal "Cheer Up v6?" and create and pend the following 
> proposal in its place:

With AP or with shinies? (Remember to send your reply to a-b!)

-o



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:45 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> 
> I did end up changing the "may" to "MAY.”

MAY means “you won’t get a card for doing this.” You wanted CAN by announcement 
(“attempts to do this this way will work”).

This is a recurrent bug. I can think of at least three players, including 
myself, who regularly cross that up. Don’t fret it too hard on this proposal, 
but the consequences of getting that backwards on more complex systems can be 
messy. That’s what’s behind the stamps omnibus fix thread, for example.

-o



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[ATMunn .]

You're right. I'll change that.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:56 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:

>  any value it is currently not.
> < It is IMPOSSIBLE to change another player's Emotion.
> < When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> Emotion as such.
>
> This could be read as mandating players provide reasons for changing
> another player's emotion.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:53 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> > [Yay more spam! This time, fixed a typo and the weird text bug.]
> > Retract the proposal "Cheer Up vIDEK" and create the following proposal
> in
> > its place:
> >
> > Title: "Cheer Up v6?"
> > Author: ATMunn
> > AI: 1
> >
> > Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> > {
> > Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> > values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> > At any time, any player CAN by announcement flip eir own Emotion to
> any
> > value it is currently not.
> > It is IMPOSSIBLE to change another player's Emotion.
> > When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> Emotion
> > as such.
> > A player's Emotion has the following effects:
> >
> > Indifferent: No effect.
> > Melancholy: Any player that is not currently Melancholy MAY pat
> any
> > Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
> > ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
> > Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
> > players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as
> > paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> >
> > }
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:30 PM, ATMunn . 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> [I really shouldn't be so quick to pend. Hopefully this will be the last
> >> change, but in case it's not, I won't pend this until the end of today.]
> >> I retract the proposal "Cheer Up" (AGAIN) and create the following
> >> proposal in its place:
> >>
> >> Title: "Cheer Up vIDEK" [version I Don't Even Know]
> >> Author: ATMunn
> >> AI: 1
> >>
> >> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> >> {
> >> Emotion is a player switch, tracked bu the registrar, with possible
> >> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to
> Indifferent.
> >> At any time, any player CAN by announcement flip eir own Emotion to
> >> any value it is currently not.
> >> It is IMPOSSIBLE to change another player's Emotion.
> >> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> >> Emotion as such.
> >> A player's Emotion has the following effects:
> >>
> >> Indifferent: No effect.
> >> Melancholy: Any player that is not currently Melancholy MAY pat any
> >> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
> >> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
> >> Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
> >> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as
> >> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> >>
> >> }
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:03 PM, ATMunn . 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Wait, I got confused by the reply being sent to discussion by default
> >>> AGAIN. It shows both as a new thread and as a reply to this one, but
> it was
> >>> still only sent to Discussion. Forget it.
> >>> I undo all actions done in this thread so far, and create and pend the
> >>> following proposal:
> >>>
> >>> Title: "Cheer Up"
> >>> Author: ATMunn
> >>> Co-Authors: none
> >>> AI: 1
> >>>
> >>> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> >>> {
> >>> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> >>> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to
> Indifferent.
> >>> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
> >>> currently not.
> >>> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> >>> Emotion as such.
> >>> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
> >>>
> >>> Indifferent: No effect.
> >>> Melancholy: Any player that is not currently Melancholy MAY pat any
> >>> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player
> is
> >>> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
> >>> Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
> >>> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such
> as
> >>> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> >>>
> >>> }
> >>>
> >>> I'm sorry for all the spam. Hopefully this works out as I intend in the
> >>> end.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:58 PM, ATMunn . 
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  Actually, can't you just state that you change things in a proposal
>  instead of retracting it and creating it again?
>  If so, then I make the following 

DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[VJ Rada]

 wrote:
> [Yay more spam! This time, fixed a typo and the weird text bug.]
> Retract the proposal "Cheer Up vIDEK" and create the following proposal in
> its place:
>
> Title: "Cheer Up v6?"
> Author: ATMunn
> AI: 1
>
> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> {
> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> At any time, any player CAN by announcement flip eir own Emotion to any
> value it is currently not.
> It is IMPOSSIBLE to change another player's Emotion.
> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir Emotion
> as such.
> A player's Emotion has the following effects:
>
> Indifferent: No effect.
> Melancholy: Any player that is not currently Melancholy MAY pat any
> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
> Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as
> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
>
> }
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:30 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
>>
>> [I really shouldn't be so quick to pend. Hopefully this will be the last
>> change, but in case it's not, I won't pend this until the end of today.]
>> I retract the proposal "Cheer Up" (AGAIN) and create the following
>> proposal in its place:
>>
>> Title: "Cheer Up vIDEK" [version I Don't Even Know]
>> Author: ATMunn
>> AI: 1
>>
>> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
>> {
>> Emotion is a player switch, tracked bu the registrar, with possible
>> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
>> At any time, any player CAN by announcement flip eir own Emotion to
>> any value it is currently not.
>> It is IMPOSSIBLE to change another player's Emotion.
>> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
>> Emotion as such.
>> A player's Emotion has the following effects:
>>
>> Indifferent: No effect.
>> Melancholy: Any player that is not currently Melancholy MAY pat any
>> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
>> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>> Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
>> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as
>> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
>>
>> }
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:03 PM, ATMunn . 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wait, I got confused by the reply being sent to discussion by default
>>> AGAIN. It shows both as a new thread and as a reply to this one, but it was
>>> still only sent to Discussion. Forget it.
>>> I undo all actions done in this thread so far, and create and pend the
>>> following proposal:
>>>
>>> Title: "Cheer Up"
>>> Author: ATMunn
>>> Co-Authors: none
>>> AI: 1
>>>
>>> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
>>> {
>>> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
>>> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
>>> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
>>> currently not.
>>> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
>>> Emotion as such.
>>> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>>>
>>> Indifferent: No effect.
>>> Melancholy: Any player that is not currently Melancholy MAY pat any
>>> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
>>> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>>> Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
>>> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as
>>> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
>>>
>>> }
>>>
>>> I'm sorry for all the spam. Hopefully this works out as I intend in the
>>> end.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:58 PM, ATMunn . 
>>> wrote:

 Actually, can't you just state that you change things in a proposal
 instead of retracting it and creating it again?
 If so, then I make the following change. to the proposal "Cheer Up". If
 not, then I retract the proposal and create a new proposal titled "Cheer Up
 v3" in its place with the following change.

 Replace
 {
 Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any Melancholy
 player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is ENCOURAGED to
 change eir emotion to Joyous.
 }
 with
 {
 Melancholy: Any player that is not currently Melancholy MAY pat any
 Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
 ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
 }

 I then pend the proposal "Cheer Up" (or "Cheer Up v3", 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[ATMunn .]

I did end up changing the "may" to "MAY."
I would add the "by announcement," however I'm not sure I can at this
point. Can you make changes to a pended proposal? If you do, do you get
back the AP/shinies you used to pend it?

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> See my comment below. Also, I greatly appreciate the current usage of
> Spivak pronouns/
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > On Sep 26, 2017, at 9:43 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> >
> > I retract the proposal "Cheer Up" and create the following proposal in
> its place:
> >
> > Title: "Cheer Up"
> > Author: ATMunn
> > Co-Authors: none
> > AI: 1
> >
> > Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> > {
> > Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> > At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
> currently not.
>
> Just to safeguard this, you should probably add a "by announcement" to the
> CAN and a clause making it INEFFECTIVE or IMPOSSIBLE, or ILLEGAL, depending
> on the dynamic you want, for another person to flip someone else's emotion.
>
> > When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> Emotion as such.
> > A player's Emotion has the following affects:
> >   • Indifferent: No effect.
> >   • Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any
> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>
> If patting on the back is intended to be a game state action and not
> physical patting on the back, you should replace this "may" with a "CAN and
> MAY".
>
> >   • Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat
> Melancholy players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts,
> such as paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> > }
> >
> > [Reason: As several people pointed out, there was some redundancy
> regarding punishments.]
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:34 PM, ATMunn . 
> wrote:
> > I create the following proposal:
> >
> > Title: "Cheer Up"
> > Author: ATMunn
> > Co-Authors: none
> > AI: 1
> >
> > Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> > {
> > Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> > At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
> currently not.
> > When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> Emotion as such.
> > Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the
> player.
> > If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir
> Emotion is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.
> > A player's Emotion has the following affects:
> >   • Indifferent: No effect.
> >   • Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any
> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
> >   • Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat
> Melancholy players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts,
> such as paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> > }
> >
> > [I thought I would do something sillier for my first proposal. I doubt
> it'll pass, but it might. I'm still not entirely sure how the whole
> figer-pointing thing and cards work, so I won't pend it just yet.]
> >
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

See my comment below. Also, I greatly appreciate the current usage of Spivak 
pronouns/

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 26, 2017, at 9:43 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> 
> I retract the proposal "Cheer Up" and create the following proposal in its 
> place:
> 
> Title: "Cheer Up"
> Author: ATMunn
> Co-Authors: none
> AI: 1
> 
> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> {
> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible 
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is 
> currently not.

Just to safeguard this, you should probably add a "by announcement" to the CAN 
and a clause making it INEFFECTIVE or IMPOSSIBLE, or ILLEGAL, depending on the 
dynamic you want, for another person to flip someone else's emotion.

> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir Emotion 
> as such.
> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>   • Indifferent: No effect.
>   • Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any 
> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is 
> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.

If patting on the back is intended to be a game state action and not physical 
patting on the back, you should replace this "may" with a "CAN and MAY".

>   • Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy 
> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as 
> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> }
> 
> [Reason: As several people pointed out, there was some redundancy regarding 
> punishments.]
> 
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:34 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> I create the following proposal:
> 
> Title: "Cheer Up"
> Author: ATMunn
> Co-Authors: none
> AI: 1
> 
> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> {
> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible 
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is 
> currently not.
> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir Emotion 
> as such.
> Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the player.
> If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir Emotion 
> is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.
> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>   • Indifferent: No effect.
>   • Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any 
> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is 
> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>   • Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy 
> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as 
> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> }
> 
> [I thought I would do something sillier for my first proposal. I doubt it'll 
> pass, but it might. I'm still not entirely sure how the whole figer-pointing 
> thing and cards work, so I won't pend it just yet.]
> 



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

We could also overtime add nice emotions.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 26, 2017, at 9:39 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 26, 2017, at 9:34 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
>> 
>> I create the following proposal:
> 
> Some initial feedback: this is fantastic as a first proposal goes. You’ve 
> nailed the mechanical elements, it looks like, and taken advantage of 
> existing systems where appropriate. Furthermore, it’s a neat piece of theme. 
> Nice work all around,
> 
>> Title: "Cheer Up"
>> Author: ATMunn
>> Co-Authors: none
>> AI: 1
>> 
>> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
>> {
>> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible 
>> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
>> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is 
>> currently not.
>> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir Emotion 
>> as such.
>> Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the player.
> 
> You can remove this clause entirely. The “e MUST provide a reason” is 
> sufficient to trigger a card, and rules that specify which card tend to be 
> prone to abuse. Furthermore, the platonic voice “can result in” is an unusual 
> way to constrain the Referee, and I’m not sure it would work as required.
> 
> If you really want to recommend that breaches be punished only with a Green 
> Card, then “The Referee SHOULD issue a Green Card for violations of this 
> rule” or something to that effect might be a more effective way to encode it.
> 
>> If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir Emotion 
>> is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.
> 
> This is a subtle bug, for a first proposal, but: finger-pointing is for 
> rule-breaking, and I can’t see any rule, including in this proposal, that 
> makes providing an invalid reason for flipping an Emotion switch against the 
> rules. You might need a MUST or SHALL NOT in here somewhere, at which point 
> the direction to point fingers is superfluous as that’s what those terms 
> imply anyways.
> 
>> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>>  • Indifferent: No effect.
>>  • Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any 
>> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is 
>> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>>  • Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy 
>> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as 
>> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
>> }
> 
> This is super cute, and provides some neat prompts for interaction. Adding 
> some length or structure SHOULDs might help, just as writing prompts, but I 
> like the overall feel of this.
> 
> -o
> 



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DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[Alex Smith]

On Tue, 2017-09-26 at 21:58 -0400, ATMunn . wrote:
> Actually, can't you just state that you change things in a proposal
> instead of retracting it and creating it again?

You can't. This is at least partly a consequence of a scam several
years ago in which someone got a dictatorship via editing a proposal
just before it passed; defining them to be unchangeable in /any/
circumstances was the simplest way to stop that sort of shenanigans.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[ATMunn .]

(Oops, forgot about the sending-to-discussion-by-default thing. It seems to
have still been sent to business though.)
Thanks for the feedback, by the way.

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:43 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:

> I retract the proposal "Cheer Up" and create the following proposal in its
> place:
>
> Title: "Cheer Up"
> Author: ATMunn
> Co-Authors: none
> AI: 1
>
> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> {
> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
> currently not.
> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> Emotion as such.
> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>
>- Indifferent: No effect.
>- Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any
>Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
>ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>- Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat
>Melancholy players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts,
>such as paying shinies to other players or pending other players' 
> proposals.
>
> }
>
> [Reason: As several people pointed out, there was some redundancy
> regarding punishments.]
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:34 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
>
>> I create the following proposal:
>>
>> Title: "Cheer Up"
>> Author: ATMunn
>> Co-Authors: none
>> AI: 1
>>
>> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
>> {
>> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
>> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
>> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
>> currently not.
>> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
>> Emotion as such.
>> Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the
>> player.
>> If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir
>> Emotion is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.
>> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>>
>>- Indifferent: No effect.
>>- Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any
>>Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
>>ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>>- Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat
>>Melancholy players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind 
>> acts,
>>such as paying shinies to other players or pending other players' 
>> proposals.
>>
>> }
>>
>> [I thought I would do something sillier for my first proposal. I doubt
>> it'll pass, but it might. I'm still not entirely sure how the whole
>> figer-pointing thing and cards work, so I won't pend it just yet.]
>>
>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[ATMunn .]

I retract the proposal "Cheer Up" and create the following proposal in its
place:

Title: "Cheer Up"
Author: ATMunn
Co-Authors: none
AI: 1

Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
{
Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
currently not.
When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
Emotion as such.
A player's Emotion has the following affects:

   - Indifferent: No effect.
   - Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any
   Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
   ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
   - Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
   players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as
   paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.

}

[Reason: As several people pointed out, there was some redundancy regarding
punishments.]

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:34 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:

> I create the following proposal:
>
> Title: "Cheer Up"
> Author: ATMunn
> Co-Authors: none
> AI: 1
>
> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> {
> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
> currently not.
> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> Emotion as such.
> Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the player.
> If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir
> Emotion is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.
> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>
>- Indifferent: No effect.
>- Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any
>Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is
>ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>- Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat
>Melancholy players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts,
>such as paying shinies to other players or pending other players' 
> proposals.
>
> }
>
> [I thought I would do something sillier for my first proposal. I doubt
> it'll pass, but it might. I'm still not entirely sure how the whole
> figer-pointing thing and cards work, so I won't pend it just yet.]
>

DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 26, 2017, at 9:34 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> 
> I create the following proposal:

Some initial feedback: this is fantastic as a first proposal goes. You’ve 
nailed the mechanical elements, it looks like, and taken advantage of existing 
systems where appropriate. Furthermore, it’s a neat piece of theme. Nice work 
all around,

> Title: "Cheer Up"
> Author: ATMunn
> Co-Authors: none
> AI: 1
> 
> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> {
> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible 
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is 
> currently not.
> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir Emotion 
> as such.
> Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the player.

You can remove this clause entirely. The “e MUST provide a reason” is 
sufficient to trigger a card, and rules that specify which card tend to be 
prone to abuse. Furthermore, the platonic voice “can result in” is an unusual 
way to constrain the Referee, and I’m not sure it would work as required.

If you really want to recommend that breaches be punished only with a Green 
Card, then “The Referee SHOULD issue a Green Card for violations of this rule” 
or something to that effect might be a more effective way to encode it.

> If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir Emotion 
> is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.

This is a subtle bug, for a first proposal, but: finger-pointing is for 
rule-breaking, and I can’t see any rule, including in this proposal, that makes 
providing an invalid reason for flipping an Emotion switch against the rules. 
You might need a MUST or SHALL NOT in here somewhere, at which point the 
direction to point fingers is superfluous as that’s what those terms imply 
anyways.

> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
> Indifferent: No effect.
> Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any Melancholy 
> player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is ENCOURAGED to 
> change eir emotion to Joyous.
> Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy players 
> on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as paying 
> shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> }

This is super cute, and provides some neat prompts for interaction. Adding some 
length or structure SHOULDs might help, just as writing prompts, but I like the 
overall feel of this.

-o



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Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[ATMunn .]

You're probably right. I'll remove that.

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:36 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:

> "
> Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the player.
> If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir
> Emotion is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em."
>
> Remove this, it's implied.
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:34 AM, ATMunn . 
> wrote:
> > I create the following proposal:
> >
> > Title: "Cheer Up"
> > Author: ATMunn
> > Co-Authors: none
> > AI: 1
> >
> > Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> > {
> > Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> > values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> > At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
> > currently not.
> > When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir
> Emotion
> > as such.
> > Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the
> player.
> > If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir
> Emotion
> > is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.
> > A player's Emotion has the following affects:
> >
> > Indifferent: No effect.
> > Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any Melancholy
> > player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is ENCOURAGED
> to
> > change eir emotion to Joyous.
> > Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
> > players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as
> > paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> >
> > }
> >
> > [I thought I would do something sillier for my first proposal. I doubt
> it'll
> > pass, but it might. I'm still not entirely sure how the whole
> figer-pointing
> > thing and cards work, so I won't pend it just yet.]
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>

DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I don't mind this, except for the card SHOULD, which doesn't go with any 
potential rules violation.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 26, 2017, at 9:34 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> 
> I create the following proposal:
> 
> Title: "Cheer Up"
> Author: ATMunn
> Co-Authors: none
> AI: 1
> 
> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> {
> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible 
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is 
> currently not.
> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir Emotion 
> as such.
> Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the player.
> If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir Emotion 
> is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.
> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>   • Indifferent: No effect.
>   • Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any 
> Melancholy player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is 
> ENCOURAGED to change eir emotion to Joyous.
>   • Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy 
> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as 
> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
> }
> 
> [I thought I would do something sillier for my first proposal. I doubt it'll 
> pass, but it might. I'm still not entirely sure how the whole figer-pointing 
> thing and cards work, so I won't pend it just yet.]



signature.asc
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DIS: Re: BUS: My first proposal!

[VJ Rada]

"
Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the player.
If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir
Emotion is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em."

Remove this, it's implied.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:34 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> I create the following proposal:
>
> Title: "Cheer Up"
> Author: ATMunn
> Co-Authors: none
> AI: 1
>
> Create a power-1 rule titled "Emotions"
> {
> Emotion is a player switch, tracked by the registrar, with possible
> values Joyous, Melancholy, and Indifferent, that defaults to Indifferent.
> At any time, any player CAN flip eir own Emotion to any value it is
> currently not.
> When doing this, e MUST provide a reason as to why e changed eir Emotion
> as such.
> Failing to do so can result in a Green Card being issued to the player.
> If a player thinks that another player's reason for changing eir Emotion
> is invalid, e SHOULD point eir finger at em.
> A player's Emotion has the following affects:
>
> Indifferent: No effect.
> Melancholy: Any player that is not Melancholy may pat any Melancholy
> player on the back. Upon doing this, the Melancholy player is ENCOURAGED to
> change eir emotion to Joyous.
> Joyous: Any player that is Joyous is ENCOURAGED to pat Melancholy
> players on the back. E is also ENCOURAGED to do other kind acts, such as
> paying shinies to other players or pending other players' proposals.
>
> }
>
> [I thought I would do something sillier for my first proposal. I doubt it'll
> pass, but it might. I'm still not entirely sure how the whole figer-pointing
> thing and cards work, so I won't pend it just yet.]



-- 
>From V.J. Rada