Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
2009/5/28 Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk: On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 20:22 -0500, Aaron Goldfein wrote: Fresh Nomic has a nomic ruleset as I can make any arbitrary change in a finite time. Therefore, it is a nomic. A nomic can be abandoned, and yet still a nomic. (One True Agora, for instance, or Old Canada.) Or New Canada. I don't think Real Fake Canada (the country) has been abandoned yet; anyone got some zombies?
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 21:03 -0400, comex wrote: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Aaron Goldfein aarongoldf...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: (and they were kind enough to announce it in a discussion forum...) I intend, without objection, to flip the recognition of Fresh Nomic to Abandoned. I object. Why? From ##nomic: [01:49] DCliche Old nomic [01:49] DCliche called Fresh Nomic [01:49] ais523 ah, has Fresh died? [01:49] DCliche Yeah, a while ago [01:49] ais523 (as Agora's ambassador, that's actually important information for me to know) [01:49] * ais523 submits intent to flip it to Abandoned [01:49] DCliche An old scammer/spammer has rejoined, however [01:50] DCliche who uses sockpuppets [01:50] ais523 Yally? [01:50] DCliche Yes. Presumably kennercat (DCliche) and Yally have differing opinions about Fresh's livelihood status. (I guessed Yally, because there was a row in BlogNomic over Yally scamming Fresh Nomic, and I don't recall anyone else trying to pull off a scam there.) -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:03 PM, comex com...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Aaron Goldfein aarongoldf...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: (and they were kind enough to announce it in a discussion forum...) I intend, without objection, to flip the recognition of Fresh Nomic to Abandoned. I object. Why? Because I'm about to have imperial-style control over the nomic. And that post announcing Fresh's death was made just before I showed up.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 20:07 -0500, Aaron Goldfein wrote: Because I'm about to have imperial-style control over the nomic. And that post announcing Fresh's death was made just before I showed up. Arguably, a full dictatorship by one person over a nomic is one way for it to die, unless it's relinquished quickly; unless the nomic was designed as an imperial nomic in the first place, dictatorships that hang around and are actually used can quickly kill a nomic as the other players leave. (As opposed to several of my apparent dictatorships over B, which I maintained for a few weeks simply to be able to use dictator power in order to pull it out of yet another self-destruction (although all that turned out never to have happened); and the dictatorships over Agora that people have managed on occasion, which tend to only last the course of one message, or at most until the CFJs are sorted out, then given back.) -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 20:07 -0500, Aaron Goldfein wrote: Because I'm about to have imperial-style control over the nomic. And that post announcing Fresh's death was made just before I showed up. Arguably, a full dictatorship by one person over a nomic is one way for it to die, unless it's relinquished quickly; unless the nomic was designed as an imperial nomic in the first place, dictatorships that hang around and are actually used can quickly kill a nomic as the other players leave. (As opposed to several of my apparent dictatorships over B, which I maintained for a few weeks simply to be able to use dictator power in order to pull it out of yet another self-destruction (although all that turned out never to have happened); and the dictatorships over Agora that people have managed on occasion, which tend to only last the course of one message, or at most until the CFJs are sorted out, then given back.) -- ais523 At first I may use my dictatorship, but afterward I don't intend for it to be much more than a symbol of my awesomeness. Besides, as it is, Kenner imposes a de facto type of dictatorship where he makes basically free changes to the game state, contrary to the rules (for the good of the game, however, so nobody seems to care).
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Alex Smith ais...@bham.ac.uk wrote: On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 20:07 -0500, Aaron Goldfein wrote: Because I'm about to have imperial-style control over the nomic. And that post announcing Fresh's death was made just before I showed up. Arguably, a full dictatorship by one person over a nomic is one way for it to die, unless it's relinquished quickly; unless the nomic was designed as an imperial nomic in the first place, dictatorships that hang around and are actually used can quickly kill a nomic as the other players leave. (As opposed to several of my apparent dictatorships over B, which I maintained for a few weeks simply to be able to use dictator power in order to pull it out of yet another self-destruction (although all that turned out never to have happened); and the dictatorships over Agora that people have managed on occasion, which tend to only last the course of one message, or at most until the CFJs are sorted out, then given back.) -- ais523 Besides, even if I abused that power horribly, according to the Agoran ruleset, it is still a nomic as: A nomic is the single entity defined by a nomic ruleset as a whole. Each nomic ruleset defines exactly one nomic, and each nomic is defined by exactly one nomic ruleset and a nomic ruleset is: A nomic ruleset is a set of explicit rules that provides means for itself to be altered arbitrarily, including changes to those rules that govern rule changes. Not all rule changes need be possible in one step; an arbitrarily complex combination of actions (possibly including intermediate rule changes) can be required, so long as any rule change is theoretically achievable in finite time. Fresh Nomic has a nomic ruleset as I can make any arbitrary change in a finite time. Therefore, it is a nomic.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 20:22 -0500, Aaron Goldfein wrote: Fresh Nomic has a nomic ruleset as I can make any arbitrary change in a finite time. Therefore, it is a nomic. A nomic can be abandoned, and yet still a nomic. (One True Agora, for instance, or Old Canada.) -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
On Wed, 27 May 2009, Aaron Goldfein wrote: Because I'm about to have imperial-style control over the nomic. And that post announcing Fresh's death was made just before I showed up. Then I suggest we flip to Hostile. We clearly have the beginnings of an axis of commie mut^H^H^Hevil here we must use every diplomatic weapon in our arsenal to spread Agoran-style nomic across the aether. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Fresh Nomic has apparently died
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote: On Wed, 27 May 2009, Aaron Goldfein wrote: Because I'm about to have imperial-style control over the nomic. And that post announcing Fresh's death was made just before I showed up. Then I suggest we flip to Hostile. We clearly have the beginnings of an axis of commie mut^H^H^Hevil here we must use every diplomatic weapon in our arsenal to spread Agoran-style nomic across the aether. -G. I fully intend, after I gain power, to submit Fresh as an Agoran protectorate.
