Re: dds3 or dds4?
On Jun 27, 2001, Tom Strickland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
total for HP SureStore DDS3i, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 998.52UKP
It doesn't look like we're talking lots of disk space here. Consider
buying one or two machines with loads of disk and do backup on disk
only, rsyncing the backups onto a backup of the backup or having the
backup disks on RAID 5, depending on how serious of a failure you're
willing to tolerate.
--
Alexandre Oliva Enjoy Guarana', see http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/
Red Hat GCC Developer aoliva@{cygnus.com, redhat.com}
CS PhD student at IC-Unicampoliva@{lsd.ic.unicamp.br, gnu.org}
Free Software Evangelist*Please* write to mailing lists, not to me
Re: dds3 or dds4?
On Wed, Jul 04, 2001 at 08:32:35AM -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote: On Jun 27, 2001, Tom Strickland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: total for HP SureStore DDS3i, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 998.52UKP It doesn't look like we're talking lots of disk space here. Consider buying one or two machines with loads of disk and do backup on disk only, rsyncing the backups onto a backup of the backup or having the backup disks on RAID 5, depending on how serious of a failure you're willing to tolerate. It's done! We've bought a SureStore DDS4i and all the bits. Once I've been in my new job for a few months, I'll see if I can afford to shell out for some new IDE drives and implement software RAID 5 or 10. Thanks again to all for the advice, Tom
Re: dds3 or dds4?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:55:04AM +0200, Christoph Sold wrote: Tom Strickland schrieb: On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:28:24PM +0200, Christoph Sold wrote: Tom Strickland schrieb: On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:58:28PM +0200, Christoph Sold wrote: Tom Strickland schrieb: We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probablybe an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's theobvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? After some near disasters with DDS tapes, I suggest also considering DLT1 tapes. Those never failed, even after long storage periods. They come even pretty cheap. If only! If I was admin for a commercial enterprise, I'd go with DLT or similar - but as a charity branch we just can't afford it. Huh? This single DLT1 drive has cost less than 4000 Marks -- thats less than $2000. Speaking of cheap, I again suggest looking at DLT1 drives. Designed to compete with DDS drives. I've just done some sums: total for HP SureStore DDS3i, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 998.52UKP total for HP SureStore DDS4i etc: 1408.71 UKP total for HP DLT1, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 2441.415 Well, unless I'm being wildly ripped off somewhere, it looks as though DDS is the only affordable solution. Probably DDS3, I'm afraid. I may be able to work something out, but at the moment I don't have the funds to be able to chip in myself. Did you cinsider DLT1 holds 40G uncompressed, compared to 4G for DDS4? You probably don't need 20 tapes. I can do with 10: 6 daily tapes, backed up monday through friday, 4 weekly tapes. Should cut the cost in half. Oops - my mistake. I meant 10 tapes. Anyway, the order's been made: DDS4. The only way that we could afford that was if I waived my costs. I am low on cash at the moment (next job starts in 1 month), so it wasn't easy. I would have gone with DLT if possible. Thanks to all for the advice - very helpful and patient. Tom
Re: dds3 or dds4?
Tom Strickland schrieb: On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:28:24PM +0200, Christoph Sold wrote: [List reply stripped] Tom Strickland schrieb: On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:58:28PM +0200, Christoph Sold wrote: Tom Strickland schrieb: We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the obvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? After some near disasters with DDS tapes, I suggest also considering DLT1 tapes. Those never failed, even after long storage periods. They come even pretty cheap. If only! If I was admin for a commercial enterprise, I'd go with DLT or similar - but as a charity branch we just can't afford it. Huh? This single DLT1 drive has cost less than 4000 Marks -- thats less than $2000. Speaking of cheap, I again suggest looking at DLT1 drives. Designed to compete with DDS drives. I've just done some sums: total for HP SureStore DDS3i, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 998.52UKP total for HP SureStore DDS4i etc: 1408.71 UKP total for HP DLT1, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 2441.415 Well, unless I'm being wildly ripped off somewhere, it looks as though DDS is the only affordable solution. Probably DDS3, I'm afraid. I may be able to work something out, but at the moment I don't have the funds to be able to chip in myself. Did you cinsider DLT1 holds 40G uncompressed, compared to 4G for DDS4? You probably don't need 20 tapes. I can do with 10: 6 daily tapes, backed up monday through friday, 4 weekly tapes. Should cut the cost in half. HTH -Christoph Sold
RE: dds3 or dds4?
reliability and tape life-span. I've run DDS2,3,4 and DLT. DDS just can't compete with DLT. Capacity, speed, reliability, bang for the buck, tape life-span, etc. bryan Bryan S. Sampsel Systems Administrator Ambeo, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Strickland Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 8:55 AM To: amanda Subject: Re: dds3 or dds4? Thanks...(comments inline) On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 08:43:16AM -0400, Jonathan Dill wrote: Tom Strickland wrote: We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the obvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? Keep in mind that amanda can't span individual backups across multiple tapes and think about your requirements. If you buy a new disk today, 18 GB is probably the smallest size that you will find easily available, and that number keeps going up. I work in an academic research lab where now some people are getting 75 GB and 180 GB disk drives, and with new instruments the data sets are increasing in size rapidly. Even the DDS4 isn't big enough anymore, so I'm having to look into getting a tapedrive with higher capacity (or using GNUTAR to split up dumps, or partitioning the drives into smaller chunks, both of which are kind of messy solutions). If things are different in whatever business you are in, maybe the DDS3 would be adequate, but it's something to think about. The trouble is that the drive is for a charity. They are becoming more and more server-centric so it becomes increasingly important that we get some kind of off-site backup system in. Our problem is money. I suppose that I may be able to sell the difference in price. HOWEVER - my question was: does anyone know any differences between the two drives OTHER THAN size/speed? For instance, I know that some older models (not DDS3 or DDS4) don't perform read-after-write checking. I was wondering if there is any difference other than size/speed that would make me dump DDS3 in favour of DDS4. Thanks, Tom
dds3 or dds4?
We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the obvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? thanks, Tom
Re: dds3 or dds4?
Tom Strickland wrote: We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the obvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? Keep in mind that amanda can't span individual backups across multiple tapes and think about your requirements. If you buy a new disk today, 18 GB is probably the smallest size that you will find easily available, and that number keeps going up. I work in an academic research lab where now some people are getting 75 GB and 180 GB disk drives, and with new instruments the data sets are increasing in size rapidly. Even the DDS4 isn't big enough anymore, so I'm having to look into getting a tapedrive with higher capacity (or using GNUTAR to split up dumps, or partitioning the drives into smaller chunks, both of which are kind of messy solutions). If things are different in whatever business you are in, maybe the DDS3 would be adequate, but it's something to think about. -- Jonathan F. Dill ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: dds3 or dds4?
Tom Strickland schrieb: We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the obvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? After some near disasters with DDS tapes, I suggest also considering DLT1 tapes. Those never failed, even after long storage periods. They come even pretty cheap. Just my EUR.02 -Christoph Sold
Re: dds3 or dds4?
On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:58:28PM +0200, Christoph Sold wrote: Tom Strickland schrieb: We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the obvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? After some near disasters with DDS tapes, I suggest also considering DLT1 tapes. Those never failed, even after long storage periods. They come even pretty cheap. If only! If I was admin for a commercial enterprise, I'd go with DLT or similar - but as a charity branch we just can't afford it. Thanks, Tom
Re: dds3 or dds4?
Thanks...(comments inline) On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 08:43:16AM -0400, Jonathan Dill wrote: Tom Strickland wrote: We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the obvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? Keep in mind that amanda can't span individual backups across multiple tapes and think about your requirements. If you buy a new disk today, 18 GB is probably the smallest size that you will find easily available, and that number keeps going up. I work in an academic research lab where now some people are getting 75 GB and 180 GB disk drives, and with new instruments the data sets are increasing in size rapidly. Even the DDS4 isn't big enough anymore, so I'm having to look into getting a tapedrive with higher capacity (or using GNUTAR to split up dumps, or partitioning the drives into smaller chunks, both of which are kind of messy solutions). If things are different in whatever business you are in, maybe the DDS3 would be adequate, but it's something to think about. The trouble is that the drive is for a charity. They are becoming more and more server-centric so it becomes increasingly important that we get some kind of off-site backup system in. Our problem is money. I suppose that I may be able to sell the difference in price. HOWEVER - my question was: does anyone know any differences between the two drives OTHER THAN size/speed? For instance, I know that some older models (not DDS3 or DDS4) don't perform read-after-write checking. I was wondering if there is any difference other than size/speed that would make me dump DDS3 in favour of DDS4. Thanks, Tom
Re: dds3 or dds4?
* Jonathan Dill [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 08:43:16AM -0400) We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the where now some people are getting 75 GB and 180 GB disk drives, and with new instruments the data sets are increasing in size rapidly. Even the DDS4 isn't big enough anymore, so I'm having to look into getting a tapedrive with higher capacity (or using GNUTAR to split up dumps, or partitioning the drives into smaller chunks, both of which are kind of messy solutions). If things are different in whatever business you are in, maybe the DDS3 would be adequate, but it's something to think about. GNUTAR works surprisingly well in practice. As for bigger capacity drives, LTO is the wave of the future. Even DLT4 doesn't get beyond 35/70 whereas LTO comes in 100/200 (and it's only step 1 out of 4 on the roadmap. I think LTO4 (or maybe LTO3) is supposed to be able to handle 1T tapes. Currently listening to: Skinny Puppy - Smothered Hope (Demo) (Back And Forth Series Two) Gerhard, @jasongeo.com == The Acoustic Motorbiker == -- __O Standing above the crowd, he had a voice so strong and loud =`\, we'll miss him (=)/(=) Ranting and pointing his finger, At everything but his heart we'll miss him
Re: dds3 or dds4?
On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:28:24PM +0200, Christoph Sold wrote: [List reply stripped] Tom Strickland schrieb: On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:58:28PM +0200, Christoph Sold wrote: Tom Strickland schrieb: We're on the verge of ordering a DDS drive (this week). It'll probably be an HP Surestore - but the question is DDS3 or DDS4? There's the obvious difference in capacity, but beyond that are there any other differences? Speed is an obvious one - any others? After some near disasters with DDS tapes, I suggest also considering DLT1 tapes. Those never failed, even after long storage periods. They come even pretty cheap. If only! If I was admin for a commercial enterprise, I'd go with DLT or similar - but as a charity branch we just can't afford it. Huh? This single DLT1 drive has cost less than 4000 Marks -- thats less than $2000. Speaking of cheap, I again suggest looking at DLT1 drives. Designed to compete with DDS drives. I've just done some sums: total for HP SureStore DDS3i, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 998.52UKP total for HP SureStore DDS4i etc: 1408.71 UKP total for HP DLT1, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 2441.415 Well, unless I'm being wildly ripped off somewhere, it looks as though DDS is the only affordable solution. Probably DDS3, I'm afraid. I may be able to work something out, but at the moment I don't have the funds to be able to chip in myself. Anyway, thanks to all for the advice. Very helpful. Tom
Re: dds3 or dds4?
Hi Tom, OK I got it now this is a charity. If the backups aren't too big and you have a big enough holding disk, you might consider a strategy where you do some dumps to the holding disk. For example, I have a config where on Wednesdays, I flush the holding disk and then do a dump with the tape in the drive, and the rest of the week I just dump to disk. If you are just backing up one or two servers, you might consider using a tool like rsync to mirror the disks to another server off site that is not web accessible, or ghosting to a removable hard drive. Lastly, you might consider looking for a corporate sponsor who could put the $ for the DDS4. Tom Strickland wrote: I've just done some sums: total for HP SureStore DDS3i, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 998.52UKP total for HP SureStore DDS4i etc: 1408.71 UKP total for HP DLT1, SCSI card, 20 tapes, delivery, VAT: 2441.415 Well, unless I'm being wildly ripped off somewhere, it looks as though DDS is the only affordable solution. Probably DDS3, I'm afraid. I may be able to work something out, but at the moment I don't have the funds to be able to chip in myself. Anyway, thanks to all for the advice. Very helpful. -- Jonathan F. Dill ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) CARB Systems and Network Administrator Home Page: http://www.umbi.umd.edu/~dill
