[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
Gary Lockhart wrote: > Thank you sharing some good operating practices that would make satellite ops > in the US more enjoyable and equitable as well. Also feel free to check out my "Courteous Ham's Guide to AO-51" http://www.innismir.net/article/26 -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
Samudra, I think that typically on FM repeaters, you should be able to understand the letters being spoken as easily as phonetics since there is usually so little noise on a local FM repeater as compared to a satellite signal where you are dealing with fading and QRM much of the time. BTW, thanks again for all your help during the Symposium. Dave, AA4KN - Original Message - From: "Samudra Haque N3RDX" To: "Tony Langdon" Cc: ; "Gary Lockhart" ; "Eric Knaps,ON4HF" Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe I asked as I am still puzzled why in the US on local FM nets hams just use "n,3,r,d,x" instead of "november three romeo david x-ray". On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Tony Langdon wrote: > At 07:30 AM 10/14/2009, Samudra Haque wrote: >> >> on a satellite QSO, is it traditional to say "A, B, C" instead of >> "Alfa Bravo Charlie" for brevity when referring to call signs and grid >> locators ? > > That can backfire and waste time, due to people not understanding the > letters. For example, my callsign under adverse conditions could be mis > heard as (heard most of the following on terrestrial repeaters or > IRLP/Echolink, let alone on the birds!): > > VK3JEB > VK3JD > VK3JB > VK3JEV > VK3JV > > And the list goes on ;) The overhead in asking for clarification or > getting a correction outweighs the overhead of using phonetics in most > cases. Once callsigns are confirmed, you can drop the phonetics (though > usually by then, the QSO is over, so someone else can have a go ;) ). > Phonetics are also more likely to survive brief bursts of QRM or brief > fades. > > 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL > http://vkradio.com > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
At 07:53 AM 10/14/2009, David - KG4ZLB wrote: >Perhaps these could be translated into Spanish! If anyone wants to translate them into any language, go right ahead. Just make a note where the source for the translation came from. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
I do that on FM repeaters and on the birds when I'm working with people who recognize my call sign or are likely to. I'll switch to phonetics if there is someone new to me or when I'm calling CQ -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Samudra Haque N3RDX Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:11 PM To: Tony Langdon Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gary Lockhart; Eric Knaps,ON4HF Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe I asked as I am still puzzled why in the US on local FM nets hams just use "n,3,r,d,x" instead of "november three romeo david x-ray". On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Tony Langdon wrote: > At 07:30 AM 10/14/2009, Samudra Haque wrote: >> >> on a satellite QSO, is it traditional to say "A, B, C" instead of >> "Alfa Bravo Charlie" for brevity when referring to call signs and grid >> locators ? > > That can backfire and waste time, due to people not understanding the > letters. For example, my callsign under adverse conditions could be mis > heard as (heard most of the following on terrestrial repeaters or > IRLP/Echolink, let alone on the birds!): > > VK3JEB > VK3JD > VK3JB > VK3JEV > VK3JV > > And the list goes on ;) The overhead in asking for clarification or > getting a correction outweighs the overhead of using phonetics in most > cases. Once callsigns are confirmed, you can drop the phonetics (though > usually by then, the QSO is over, so someone else can have a go ;) ). > Phonetics are also more likely to survive brief bursts of QRM or brief > fades. > > 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL > http://vkradio.com > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
Probably because David is not a member of the approved NATO alphabet. Samudra Haque N3RDX wrote: > I asked as I am still puzzled why in the US on local FM nets hams just > use "n,3,r,d,x" instead of "november three romeo david x-ray". ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
I asked as I am still puzzled why in the US on local FM nets hams just use "n,3,r,d,x" instead of "november three romeo david x-ray". On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Tony Langdon wrote: > At 07:30 AM 10/14/2009, Samudra Haque wrote: >> >> on a satellite QSO, is it traditional to say "A, B, C" instead of >> "Alfa Bravo Charlie" for brevity when referring to call signs and grid >> locators ? > > That can backfire and waste time, due to people not understanding the > letters. For example, my callsign under adverse conditions could be mis > heard as (heard most of the following on terrestrial repeaters or > IRLP/Echolink, let alone on the birds!): > > VK3JEB > VK3JD > VK3JB > VK3JEV > VK3JV > > And the list goes on ;) The overhead in asking for clarification or > getting a correction outweighs the overhead of using phonetics in most > cases. Once callsigns are confirmed, you can drop the phonetics (though > usually by then, the QSO is over, so someone else can have a go ;) ). > Phonetics are also more likely to survive brief bursts of QRM or brief > fades. > > 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL > http://vkradio.com > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
At 07:30 AM 10/14/2009, Samudra Haque wrote: >on a satellite QSO, is it traditional to say "A, B, C" instead of >"Alfa Bravo Charlie" for brevity when referring to call signs and grid >locators ? That can backfire and waste time, due to people not understanding the letters. For example, my callsign under adverse conditions could be mis heard as (heard most of the following on terrestrial repeaters or IRLP/Echolink, let alone on the birds!): VK3JEB VK3JD VK3JB VK3JEV VK3JV And the list goes on ;) The overhead in asking for clarification or getting a correction outweighs the overhead of using phonetics in most cases. Once callsigns are confirmed, you can drop the phonetics (though usually by then, the QSO is over, so someone else can have a go ;) ). Phonetics are also more likely to survive brief bursts of QRM or brief fades. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
Perhaps these could be translated into Spanish!
David
KG4ZLB
Eric Knaps, ON4HF wrote:
> Hello all,
> I found these nice rules from VK3JED:
>
> 1. First and foremost is to listen before and while (if possible)
> transmitting, to ensure your transmissions don't drown out a weaker
> station who may be on the edge of a pass or running QRP. Satellites
> should be an alligator free zone. It is strongly recommended that you
> set your station up so you can monitor the downlink while
> transmitting, so you can hear how well you are accessing the satellite
> and whether you accidentally clobbered someone else. Similarly, if you
> can't hear the transponder, don't transmit. Do something else more
> productive, such as realign your receiving antenna to improve
> reception.
> 2. Be brief. Because the traffic levels can be quite high, contest style
> (callsign/signal report/next station) operation is the most
> appropriate for most situations. Many stations also exchange QTH and
> first names, which is OK if time permits. If transponder activity is
> low, you can have a brief chat, but the opportunities for this are
> becoming rare now.
> 3. Take turns. If you've just worked a handful of stations, be polite and
> hand the transponder over to someone else so they can work a few.
> There may be an opportunity to call back in later during the pass and
> work some different stations as the satellite passes over different
> areas, and others will appreciate your courtesy.
> 4. When calling, a simple announcement (e.g. "This is VK3JED listening
> SUNSAT" or even "VK3JED listening") will suffice, like it does on a
> terrestrial repeater. Anyone within transponder range will hear your
> call. A short CQ call ("CQ SUNSAT, this is VK3JED") is OK too. Long CQ
> calls waste transponder time and frustrate everyone listening. Save
> the long CQs for HF, where they're appropriate. Only call CQ when
> there's a distinct lack of activity, such as at the very start of a
> pass and sometimes late in the pass after everyone else has finished.
> A well placed CQ call late in a pass might alert someone ahead of the
> satellite that a pass has just commenced over their QTH.
> 5. Wait your turn. If a QSO is in progress, wait until it finishes before
> putting in your call. Butting in too soon is rude and wastes precious
> transponder time as the stations involved in the QSO have to repeat
> themselves due to your QRM.
> 6. Don't tune up! Believe it or not, there are stations who test their
> satellite access by dropping a carrier over the top of everyone and
> perhaps announcing "Hello hello". Simply putting out a call at the
> appropriate time will provide all the signal checks you need (and get
> you a worthwhile contact! :) ), without annoying everyone else on the
> transponder. If you're really that doubtful about your equipment,
> perhaps connect your dummy load, test in the shack and try again
> another day, rather than disrupting everyone else. If you just want to
> hear your voice, well a tape recorder or a pair of walkie talkies will
> do just as well...
> 7. Reward good operation. If you're answering a call, why not reward the
> good operators and put the alligators last on your list of priorities.
> If all satellite users favour good operators, perhaps everyone will
> learn that good ops have the highest QSO rates and earn the most
> satellite awards. :-) Peer pressure is a powerful motivating force, as
> any teenager will know (but probably not admit to! :-) ).
> 8. Use the minimum power necessary. While power levels are not critical
> on FM satellites (unlike linear transponders where an excessively
> strong signal can affect other QSOs on the transponder), using the
> minimum power necessary allows you to easier tell if you're 'doubling'
> with someone else. For the South African SUNSAT satellite, you
> shouldn't need more than 5 watts into a basic (1/2 wave handheld or
> turnstile) antenna, perhaps a bit more if the antenna is setup for
> terrestrial operation, to overcome radiation pattern limitations. As
> an example of good operation, recently one station who had multiple
> beams wound his power back to 20 mW. The signal into the bird was full
> quieting, but it was still possible to tell if someone else was
> underneath his signal. If he had run 100W, he couldn't have known if
> he'd stepped on anyone else, due to the capture effect of FM.
>
> If everyone follows these simple guidelines (which are basically common
> sense and courtesy), then FM satellite operation can be enjoyable for
> everyone, regardless of whether you run a sophisticated satellite station
> or a couple of handhelds from the back yard. FM satellite transponders
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
on a satellite QSO, is it traditional to say "A, B, C" instead of
"Alfa Bravo Charlie" for brevity when referring to call signs and grid
locators ?
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Eric Knaps, ON4HF
wrote:
> Hello all,
> I found these nice rules from VK3JED:
>
> 1. First and foremost is to listen before and while (if possible)
> transmitting, to ensure your transmissions don't drown out a weaker
> station who may be on the edge of a pass or running QRP. Satellites
> should be an alligator free zone. It is strongly recommended that you
> set your station up so you can monitor the downlink while
> transmitting, so you can hear how well you are accessing the satellite
> and whether you accidentally clobbered someone else. Similarly, if you
> can't hear the transponder, don't transmit. Do something else more
> productive, such as realign your receiving antenna to improve
> reception.
> 2. Be brief. Because the traffic levels can be quite high, contest style
> (callsign/signal report/next station) operation is the most
> appropriate for most situations. Many stations also exchange QTH and
> first names, which is OK if time permits. If transponder activity is
> low, you can have a brief chat, but the opportunities for this are
> becoming rare now.
> 3. Take turns. If you've just worked a handful of stations, be polite and
> hand the transponder over to someone else so they can work a few.
> There may be an opportunity to call back in later during the pass and
> work some different stations as the satellite passes over different
> areas, and others will appreciate your courtesy.
> 4. When calling, a simple announcement (e.g. "This is VK3JED listening
> SUNSAT" or even "VK3JED listening") will suffice, like it does on a
> terrestrial repeater. Anyone within transponder range will hear your
> call. A short CQ call ("CQ SUNSAT, this is VK3JED") is OK too. Long CQ
> calls waste transponder time and frustrate everyone listening. Save
> the long CQs for HF, where they're appropriate. Only call CQ when
> there's a distinct lack of activity, such as at the very start of a
> pass and sometimes late in the pass after everyone else has finished.
> A well placed CQ call late in a pass might alert someone ahead of the
> satellite that a pass has just commenced over their QTH.
> 5. Wait your turn. If a QSO is in progress, wait until it finishes before
> putting in your call. Butting in too soon is rude and wastes precious
> transponder time as the stations involved in the QSO have to repeat
> themselves due to your QRM.
> 6. Don't tune up! Believe it or not, there are stations who test their
> satellite access by dropping a carrier over the top of everyone and
> perhaps announcing "Hello hello". Simply putting out a call at the
> appropriate time will provide all the signal checks you need (and get
> you a worthwhile contact! :) ), without annoying everyone else on the
> transponder. If you're really that doubtful about your equipment,
> perhaps connect your dummy load, test in the shack and try again
> another day, rather than disrupting everyone else. If you just want to
> hear your voice, well a tape recorder or a pair of walkie talkies will
> do just as well...
> 7. Reward good operation. If you're answering a call, why not reward the
> good operators and put the alligators last on your list of priorities.
> If all satellite users favour good operators, perhaps everyone will
> learn that good ops have the highest QSO rates and earn the most
> satellite awards. :-) Peer pressure is a powerful motivating force, as
> any teenager will know (but probably not admit to! :-) ).
> 8. Use the minimum power necessary. While power levels are not critical
> on FM satellites (unlike linear transponders where an excessively
> strong signal can affect other QSOs on the transponder), using the
> minimum power necessary allows you to easier tell if you're 'doubling'
> with someone else. For the South African SUNSAT satellite, you
> shouldn't need more than 5 watts into a basic (1/2 wave handheld or
> turnstile) antenna, perhaps a bit more if the antenna is setup for
> terrestrial operation, to overcome radiation pattern limitations. As
> an example of good operation, recently one station who had multiple
> beams wound his power back to 20 mW. The signal into the bird was full
> quieting, but it was still possible to tell if someone else was
> underneath his signal. If he had run 100W, he couldn't have known if
> he'd stepped on anyone else, due to the capture effect of FM.
>
> If everyone follows these simple guidelines (which are basically common
> sense and courtesy), then FM satellite operation can be enjoyable for
> everyone, regardless of whether you run a sophisticated satellite station
> or a couple of
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
Hello all,
I found these nice rules from VK3JED:
1. First and foremost is to listen before and while (if possible)
transmitting, to ensure your transmissions don't drown out a weaker
station who may be on the edge of a pass or running QRP. Satellites
should be an alligator free zone. It is strongly recommended that you
set your station up so you can monitor the downlink while
transmitting, so you can hear how well you are accessing the satellite
and whether you accidentally clobbered someone else. Similarly, if you
can't hear the transponder, don't transmit. Do something else more
productive, such as realign your receiving antenna to improve
reception.
2. Be brief. Because the traffic levels can be quite high, contest style
(callsign/signal report/next station) operation is the most
appropriate for most situations. Many stations also exchange QTH and
first names, which is OK if time permits. If transponder activity is
low, you can have a brief chat, but the opportunities for this are
becoming rare now.
3. Take turns. If you've just worked a handful of stations, be polite and
hand the transponder over to someone else so they can work a few.
There may be an opportunity to call back in later during the pass and
work some different stations as the satellite passes over different
areas, and others will appreciate your courtesy.
4. When calling, a simple announcement (e.g. "This is VK3JED listening
SUNSAT" or even "VK3JED listening") will suffice, like it does on a
terrestrial repeater. Anyone within transponder range will hear your
call. A short CQ call ("CQ SUNSAT, this is VK3JED") is OK too. Long CQ
calls waste transponder time and frustrate everyone listening. Save
the long CQs for HF, where they're appropriate. Only call CQ when
there's a distinct lack of activity, such as at the very start of a
pass and sometimes late in the pass after everyone else has finished.
A well placed CQ call late in a pass might alert someone ahead of the
satellite that a pass has just commenced over their QTH.
5. Wait your turn. If a QSO is in progress, wait until it finishes before
putting in your call. Butting in too soon is rude and wastes precious
transponder time as the stations involved in the QSO have to repeat
themselves due to your QRM.
6. Don't tune up! Believe it or not, there are stations who test their
satellite access by dropping a carrier over the top of everyone and
perhaps announcing "Hello hello". Simply putting out a call at the
appropriate time will provide all the signal checks you need (and get
you a worthwhile contact! :) ), without annoying everyone else on the
transponder. If you're really that doubtful about your equipment,
perhaps connect your dummy load, test in the shack and try again
another day, rather than disrupting everyone else. If you just want to
hear your voice, well a tape recorder or a pair of walkie talkies will
do just as well...
7. Reward good operation. If you're answering a call, why not reward the
good operators and put the alligators last on your list of priorities.
If all satellite users favour good operators, perhaps everyone will
learn that good ops have the highest QSO rates and earn the most
satellite awards. :-) Peer pressure is a powerful motivating force, as
any teenager will know (but probably not admit to! :-) ).
8. Use the minimum power necessary. While power levels are not critical
on FM satellites (unlike linear transponders where an excessively
strong signal can affect other QSOs on the transponder), using the
minimum power necessary allows you to easier tell if you're 'doubling'
with someone else. For the South African SUNSAT satellite, you
shouldn't need more than 5 watts into a basic (1/2 wave handheld or
turnstile) antenna, perhaps a bit more if the antenna is setup for
terrestrial operation, to overcome radiation pattern limitations. As
an example of good operation, recently one station who had multiple
beams wound his power back to 20 mW. The signal into the bird was full
quieting, but it was still possible to tell if someone else was
underneath his signal. If he had run 100W, he couldn't have known if
he'd stepped on anyone else, due to the capture effect of FM.
If everyone follows these simple guidelines (which are basically common
sense and courtesy), then FM satellite operation can be enjoyable for
everyone, regardless of whether you run a sophisticated satellite station
or a couple of handhelds from the back yard. FM satellite transponders are
like FM repeaters, only more extreme. On the positive side, they can enable
minimally equipped stations thousands of kilometres apart to communicate
with ease. On the other hand, the worst aspects of repeaters can be
experience
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
Thank you sharing some good operating practices that would make satellite ops in the US more enjoyable and equitable as well. 73, Gary AB3ID * Hi all in Europe, It is obviously about time to repeate a few good points about operating via the FM repeater satellites. 1. Do not transmit if you can not hear it 2. When the satellite is busy - limit the number of QSO's to ONE 3. Do not call over an ongoing QSO 4. A valid QSO just needs the call and the report 5. Give way to weak stations like /p and /m 6. Allow DX-peditions to make as many QSO's as there are callers That was the short version :-) I have a long version in English, Italian, Russian, Spanish and French. I can send it to you if you want it. Could use a few other languages like Greek, Polish and others. It would be nice if you can get it in your national journals. And please no flames ! 73 OZ1MY Ib ** -- __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
At 05:26 AM 10/13/2009, Eric Knaps, ON4HF wrote: >I like rule number 3. I hate it when somebody calls cq while you are in >the middle of a qso. In my experience, this is often due to a station that can't hear the downlink, but it's annoying in any case. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FM satellite operations again again over Europe
I like rule number 3. I hate it when somebody calls cq while you are in the middle of a qso. 73, Eric. Eric Knaps Waterstraat 30 B-3980 Tessenderlo Belgium Tel. +32472985876 (mobile) http://www.on4hf.be OZ1MY schreef: > Hi all in Europe, > It is obviously about time to repeate a few > good points about operating via the FM repeater > satellites. > > 1. Do not transmit if you can not hear it > > 2. When the satellite is busy - limit the number of QSO's to ONE > > 3. Do not call over an ongoing QSO > > 4. A valid QSO just needs the call and the report > > 5. Give way to weak stations like /p and /m > > 6. Allow DX-peditions to make as many QSO's as there are callers > > That was the short version :-) > > I have a long version in English, Italian, Russian, Spanish and French. > I can send it to you if you want it. Could use a few other languages > like Greek, Polish and others. > It would be nice if you can get it in your national journals. > > And please no flames ! > > 73 OZ1MY > Ib > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
