Re: [android-developers] Is the 'back' button still kosher?
I disagree with latimerius and his aversion for the android features. Yes, android significantly changed from version 2 to 3/4 and yes, this causes significant work for developers. However, there was a reason: to expand the android way to tablets. Avoiding the platform just guarantees that your apps will feel alien. Platforms change and if you want your app to feel native, you have to adopt. Such is life. Regarding your question: yes, I would use the back button (no matter if it's a hard button or an on-screen button displayed by android itself) to get back to the main screen from the sub-screens. If the back button is pressed while playing, many games pause and aks what to do (continue / Main menu) via a pop-up menu. While that menu is displayed, you may respond to pressing one of the offered menu options and alternatively to pressing back again. However, back button while a menu is displayed normally means just hide the menu. I.e. it should not go to the main screen but continue the game. Am Freitag, 2. November 2012 17:02:58 UTC+1 schrieb Keith Wiley: Thanks for coming back to my original question. So, perhaps we can all consider my situation from a higher level and discuss the possible design options we might choose from (and which options are most in the spirit of intended Android user experience). Although I have a few Android apps, the one I'm concerned with at the moment is a game and the back button is used to move between the various screens. So, when the game launches you get an on-screen menu of options (settings, scoreboard, play, credits). Tapping those takes you to a corresponding screen while tapping the back button takes you from those secondary screens back to the main menu (or from the main menu it exits the app). Likewise, while playing, the back button doesn't immediately exit play mode back to the main menu but rather first pauses the game. From the paused view, a second back button tap cancels play and returns to the main menu...while tapping the paused screen (anywhere) resumes play. That's pretty much it...and my question is whether I need to offer a nonback-button method for these various actions? Should each of the secondary screens have an on-screen return to main menu button? Should the main menu have an explicit quit option? Should in-game-play not rely on the back button to either pause the game or cancel and return to the main menu? These are the things I'm thinking about with as far as this discussion is concerned. Thanks. On Friday, November 2, 2012 6:22:50 AM UTC-7, latimerius wrote: On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Mark Murphy mmu...@commonsware.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:10 AM, Keith Wiley kbw...@gmail.com wrote: All right. I brought this up a few weeks ago on this list and some of the advice on the topic was to avoid menus entirely and replace them with in-app soft-menus from now on...despite the action bar. I guess that advice was incorrect. There are developers who do not want to use the action bar, such as game developers who find that an always-present action bar is a distraction or clashes with their game-focused UI. A subset of those developers are clinging desperately to the old options menu behavior (e.g., setting android:targetSdkVersion to be under 11) -- the right answer for these game developers is to add in-app soft menus that blend in with the game UI. The right answer would have been for Google to leave the button alone - but we've talked about that already, the button was universally useful, and there's not always a UI to blend in anyway. Back on topic, my lesson for my remaining days on Android from the Menu button fiasco and other breakages caused by previously guaranteed stuff being pulled at whim from under people using them would be - interact as little as possible with the platform. Don't rely on stuff on being there cause it likely won't, don't rely on APIs cause they will be deprecated or changed. As far as the Back button specifically, one would think that should be safe to rely on. Based on experience though, my advice would be, think hard about what you need it for and what your alternatives are. If you find any half-decent one, consider using it. You might be glad you did once next version of the platform is out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Is the 'back' button still kosher?
All right. I brought this up a few weeks ago on this list and some of the advice on the topic was to avoid menus entirely and replace them with in-app soft-menus from now on...despite the action bar. I guess that advice was incorrect. Thanks for the clarification. On Thursday, November 1, 2012 10:42:21 PM UTC-7, Nirav Parmar wrote: My understanding is that modern Android best practice is to not use the system-level menu button or system-level options menu anymore since such buttons are frequently difficult to access or even absent on some devices. Keith , Your understanding is wrong here. Read about ActionBar. http://developer.android.com/design/patterns/actionbar.html you can use that..Also, if device have hardware buttons(menu buttons) Action Overlay will not display in Action bar otherwise you will get Action Overlay..so all your functionality can be now placed in Action bar (which we used to put in menu previously) What I'm not sure about is whether I can still rely on the standard 'back' button or whether I need to add such functionality to my UI (add a soft button on my screen) on the concern that some devices may not present a usable back button to the user. Again, that's not true.Each Android device will come up with standard back button..This is how Android OS is designed..any device doesn't have hardware buttons..Android OS will display Back ,Recent and Home buttons on screen at bottom. Also, According to Android's new Design Navigation pattern, UP button is added.You can show UP button in Action Bar(Which can be used for Application nevigation) Read Here , http://developer.android.com/design/patterns/navigation.html .This will clear you doubts. Thanks Regards, Nirav. On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Keith Wiley kbw...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: My understanding is that modern Android best practice is to not use the system-level menu button or system-level options menu anymore since such buttons are frequently difficult to access or even absent on some devices. I have gutted all menu access from my app as a result (I admit, it is quite tedious to get access to the menus on some devices since you have to tap at least once just to get a menu bar to appear and then again on a menu icon to get the menu...and I'm not sure even that approach works on all of the most modern devices). What I'm not sure about is whether I can still rely on the standard 'back' button or whether I need to add such functionality to my UI (add a soft button on my screen) on the concern that some devices may not present a usable back button to the user. Any thoughts on this subject? Thanks Regards, Nirav -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Is the 'back' button still kosher?
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:10 AM, Keith Wiley kbwi...@gmail.com wrote: All right. I brought this up a few weeks ago on this list and some of the advice on the topic was to avoid menus entirely and replace them with in-app soft-menus from now on...despite the action bar. I guess that advice was incorrect. There are developers who do not want to use the action bar, such as game developers who find that an always-present action bar is a distraction or clashes with their game-focused UI. A subset of those developers are clinging desperately to the old options menu behavior (e.g., setting android:targetSdkVersion to be under 11) -- the right answer for these game developers is to add in-app soft menus that blend in with the game UI. Because eventually, *something* will force their hand to set android:targetSdkVersion to 11 or higher, and even before that happens, users not used to the old option menu trigger will not realize there are menus at all. Most apps will do fine with an action bar. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy _The Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development_ Version 4.2 Available! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Is the 'back' button still kosher?
On 2 Nov 2012 17:38, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:10 AM, Keith Wiley kbwi...@gmail.com wrote: All right. I brought this up a few weeks ago on this list and some of the advice on the topic was to avoid menus entirely and replace them with in-app soft-menus from now on...despite the action bar. I guess that advice was incorrect. There are developers who do not want to use the action bar, such as game developers who find that an always-present action bar is a distraction or clashes with their game-focused UI. A subset of those developers are clinging desperately to the old options menu behavior (e.g., setting android:targetSdkVersion to be under 11) -- the right answer for these game developers is to add in-app soft menus that blend in with the game UI. Because eventually, *something* will force their hand to set android:targetSdkVersion to 11 or higher, and even before that happens, users not used to the old option menu trigger will not realize there are menus at all. Most apps will do fine with an action bar. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy _The Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development_ Version 4.2 Available! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Is the 'back' button still kosher?
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:10 AM, Keith Wiley kbwi...@gmail.com wrote: All right. I brought this up a few weeks ago on this list and some of the advice on the topic was to avoid menus entirely and replace them with in-app soft-menus from now on...despite the action bar. I guess that advice was incorrect. There are developers who do not want to use the action bar, such as game developers who find that an always-present action bar is a distraction or clashes with their game-focused UI. A subset of those developers are clinging desperately to the old options menu behavior (e.g., setting android:targetSdkVersion to be under 11) -- the right answer for these game developers is to add in-app soft menus that blend in with the game UI. The right answer would have been for Google to leave the button alone - but we've talked about that already, the button was universally useful, and there's not always a UI to blend in anyway. Back on topic, my lesson for my remaining days on Android from the Menu button fiasco and other breakages caused by previously guaranteed stuff being pulled at whim from under people using them would be - interact as little as possible with the platform. Don't rely on stuff on being there cause it likely won't, don't rely on APIs cause they will be deprecated or changed. As far as the Back button specifically, one would think that should be safe to rely on. Based on experience though, my advice would be, think hard about what you need it for and what your alternatives are. If you find any half-decent one, consider using it. You might be glad you did once next version of the platform is out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Is the 'back' button still kosher?
Thanks for coming back to my original question. So, perhaps we can all consider my situation from a higher level and discuss the possible design options we might choose from (and which options are most in the spirit of intended Android user experience). Although I have a few Android apps, the one I'm concerned with at the moment is a game and the back button is used to move between the various screens. So, when the game launches you get an on-screen menu of options (settings, scoreboard, play, credits). Tapping those takes you to a corresponding screen while tapping the back button takes you from those secondary screens back to the main menu (or from the main menu it exits the app). Likewise, while playing, the back button doesn't immediately exit play mode back to the main menu but rather first pauses the game. From the paused view, a second back button tap cancels play and returns to the main menu...while tapping the paused screen (anywhere) resumes play. That's pretty much it...and my question is whether I need to offer a nonback-button method for these various actions? Should each of the secondary screens have an on-screen return to main menu button? Should the main menu have an explicit quit option? Should in-game-play not rely on the back button to either pause the game or cancel and return to the main menu? These are the things I'm thinking about with as far as this discussion is concerned. Thanks. On Friday, November 2, 2012 6:22:50 AM UTC-7, latimerius wrote: On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Mark Murphy mmu...@commonsware.comjavascript: wrote: On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:10 AM, Keith Wiley kbw...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: All right. I brought this up a few weeks ago on this list and some of the advice on the topic was to avoid menus entirely and replace them with in-app soft-menus from now on...despite the action bar. I guess that advice was incorrect. There are developers who do not want to use the action bar, such as game developers who find that an always-present action bar is a distraction or clashes with their game-focused UI. A subset of those developers are clinging desperately to the old options menu behavior (e.g., setting android:targetSdkVersion to be under 11) -- the right answer for these game developers is to add in-app soft menus that blend in with the game UI. The right answer would have been for Google to leave the button alone - but we've talked about that already, the button was universally useful, and there's not always a UI to blend in anyway. Back on topic, my lesson for my remaining days on Android from the Menu button fiasco and other breakages caused by previously guaranteed stuff being pulled at whim from under people using them would be - interact as little as possible with the platform. Don't rely on stuff on being there cause it likely won't, don't rely on APIs cause they will be deprecated or changed. As far as the Back button specifically, one would think that should be safe to rely on. Based on experience though, my advice would be, think hard about what you need it for and what your alternatives are. If you find any half-decent one, consider using it. You might be glad you did once next version of the platform is out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Is the 'back' button still kosher?
For all your secondary UI screens, it should be possible to add an on-screen back button so I'd do it. As for in-game, that's for you to decide - I haven't seen your game. If there's a place on your in-game screen where a pause button wouldn't get in the way, I'd add it. Once in the paused view, again you can probably draw any buttons you need to enable navigation without relying on the Back button. As for the spirit of intended Android user experience, I don't think there's any. Whatever affordances you draw to the screen, your users will use. What's right or wrong is between you and your users. The correct or intended use of the Back button was described by Google somewhere - I don't have a link handy but searching for Android Back button should find it. I think you are more or less compliant according to your description. On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Keith Wiley kbwi...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for coming back to my original question. So, perhaps we can all consider my situation from a higher level and discuss the possible design options we might choose from (and which options are most in the spirit of intended Android user experience). Although I have a few Android apps, the one I'm concerned with at the moment is a game and the back button is used to move between the various screens. So, when the game launches you get an on-screen menu of options (settings, scoreboard, play, credits). Tapping those takes you to a corresponding screen while tapping the back button takes you from those secondary screens back to the main menu (or from the main menu it exits the app). Likewise, while playing, the back button doesn't immediately exit play mode back to the main menu but rather first pauses the game. From the paused view, a second back button tap cancels play and returns to the main menu...while tapping the paused screen (anywhere) resumes play. That's pretty much it...and my question is whether I need to offer a nonback-button method for these various actions? Should each of the secondary screens have an on-screen return to main menu button? Should the main menu have an explicit quit option? Should in-game-play not rely on the back button to either pause the game or cancel and return to the main menu? These are the things I'm thinking about with as far as this discussion is concerned. Thanks. On Friday, November 2, 2012 6:22:50 AM UTC-7, latimerius wrote: On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Mark Murphy mmu...@commonsware.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:10 AM, Keith Wiley kbw...@gmail.com wrote: All right. I brought this up a few weeks ago on this list and some of the advice on the topic was to avoid menus entirely and replace them with in-app soft-menus from now on...despite the action bar. I guess that advice was incorrect. There are developers who do not want to use the action bar, such as game developers who find that an always-present action bar is a distraction or clashes with their game-focused UI. A subset of those developers are clinging desperately to the old options menu behavior (e.g., setting android:targetSdkVersion to be under 11) -- the right answer for these game developers is to add in-app soft menus that blend in with the game UI. The right answer would have been for Google to leave the button alone - but we've talked about that already, the button was universally useful, and there's not always a UI to blend in anyway. Back on topic, my lesson for my remaining days on Android from the Menu button fiasco and other breakages caused by previously guaranteed stuff being pulled at whim from under people using them would be - interact as little as possible with the platform. Don't rely on stuff on being there cause it likely won't, don't rely on APIs cause they will be deprecated or changed. As far as the Back button specifically, one would think that should be safe to rely on. Based on experience though, my advice would be, think hard about what you need it for and what your alternatives are. If you find any half-decent one, consider using it. You might be glad you did once next version of the platform is out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
[android-developers] Is the 'back' button still kosher?
My understanding is that modern Android best practice is to not use the system-level menu button or system-level options menu anymore since such buttons are frequently difficult to access or even absent on some devices. I have gutted all menu access from my app as a result (I admit, it is quite tedious to get access to the menus on some devices since you have to tap at least once just to get a menu bar to appear and then again on a menu icon to get the menu...and I'm not sure even that approach works on all of the most modern devices). What I'm not sure about is whether I can still rely on the standard 'back' button or whether I need to add such functionality to my UI (add a soft button on my screen) on the concern that some devices may not present a usable back button to the user. Any thoughts on this subject? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
