Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[David Doud]

Thank you for this, Glen - it is new information to me - I have been twiddling 
my thumbs waiting for color here, not only on Jonagold, but on all the later 
varieties - tonight will be the first night of the season in the lower 
40’s/upper30’s - hope that we’ll see some color development soon - 
David Doud IN


> On Oct 13, 2016, at 12:10 AM, Glen Koehler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Art
> A contributing factor to problems with fruit color this fall has been 
> late arrival of minimum temperatures below 42F,   A "rule of thumb" from a 
> Cornell bulletin is that optimum coloring conditions require two days with 
> low temperature below 42F, followed by a day with high temperature over 68F 
> AND over 80% sunlight on that day.  
> 
>  The Ag-Radar estimate for Sanford 9 miles away from you (far enough that 
> I wish we had closer data site, working on that) shows that the two days 
> below 42F requirement was not met until September 26, and Sept. 27 had a high 
> temperature over 68F.  But the requirement for a day with high temperature 
> over 68F AND over 80% sunshine was not met until October 6.
> 
> I don't see this formula as a powerful predictor, esp. since I've seen 
> some good color improvement while checking traps and doing fall scab index 
> over the past few weeks.   And even if it was a robust predictor, it wasn't 
> based on Jonagold.  Still it gives some numbers to possibly help explain late 
> coloring conditions this fall.
> 
> Easy to suspect the drought as a contributing factor.  I'm also wondering 
> if you used ReTain on these Jonagold.  If so, do you think that had any 
> effect on coloring?
> 
> - Glen
> 
> Glen Koehler
> University of Maine Cooperative Extension
> Pest Management Office
> Voice:  Office 207-581-3882,   Cell  207-485-0918
> 491 College Avenue, Orono, ME  04473
> UMaine Apple IPM 
> Ag-Radar 
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 2:19 PM, kellyorchards  > wrote:
> Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a heavy 
> crop?
> 
> 
> 
> Art Kelly
> Kelly Orchards
> Acton, Maine
> 
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[Allen Teach - Sunrise Orchard]

Hello Art,
Did your Jonagold receive Retain?   The old strains of Jonagold here did not 
color with proper crop load and I attributed it to the one third rate of Retain 
applied.  Retain was particularly effective here this year preventing Mac drop 
so I am thinking it may have really imposed color drag on Jonagold. Macs 
colored acceptably well this year even with Retain and Cortland did very well.

Allen Teach
Sunrise Orchards Inc.
Gays Mills,WI

From: Evan B. Milburn 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:34 AM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list 
Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

Welcome to Southern living and growing jonagold.  The old original strain will 
never get color this far south. The newer strains will be about like your 
original strains if we are lucky enough to have some cooler nights and sunny 
days.
Cold nights, sunny days AND good pruning will get you color. 





On Thursday, October 13, 2016 12:12 AM, Glen Koehler  
wrote:




  Hi Art 
  A contributing factor to problems with fruit color this fall has been 
late arrival of minimum temperatures below 42F,   A "rule of thumb" from a 
Cornell bulletin is that optimum coloring conditions require two days with low 
temperature below 42F, followed by a day with high temperature over 68F AND 
over 80% sunlight on that day.  

   The Ag-Radar estimate for Sanford 9 miles away from you (far enough that 
I wish we had closer data site, working on that) shows that the two days below 
42F requirement was not met until September 26, and Sept. 27 had a high 
temperature over 68F.  But the requirement for a day with high temperature over 
68F AND over 80% sunshine was not met until October 6.

  I don't see this formula as a powerful predictor, esp. since I've seen 
some good color improvement while checking traps and doing fall scab index over 
the past few weeks.   And even if it was a robust predictor, it wasn't based on 
Jonagold.  Still it gives some numbers to possibly help explain late coloring 
conditions this fall.

  Easy to suspect the drought as a contributing factor.  I'm also wondering 
if you used ReTain on these Jonagold.  If so, do you think that had any effect 
on coloring?

  - Glen

  Glen Koehler
  University of Maine Cooperative Extension
  Pest Management Office
  Voice:  Office 207-581-3882,   Cell  207-485-0918
  491 College Avenue, Orono, ME  04473
  UMaine Apple IPM
  Ag-Radar

  On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 2:19 PM, kellyorchards  
wrote:

Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a 
heavy crop?



Art Kelly
Kelly Orchards
Acton, Maine

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[Evan B. Milburn]

Welcome to Southern living and growing jonagold.  The old original strain will 
never get color this far south. The newer strains will be about like your 
original strains if we are lucky enough to have some cooler nights and sunny 
days.  Cold nights, sunny days AND good pruning will get you color. 

   

 On Thursday, October 13, 2016 12:12 AM, Glen Koehler  
wrote:
 
 

 Hi Art    A contributing factor to problems with fruit color this fall has 
been late arrival of minimum temperatures below 42F,   A "rule of thumb" from a 
Cornell bulletin is that optimum coloring conditions require two days with low 
temperature below 42F, followed by a day with high temperature over 68F AND 
over 80% sunlight on that day.  
     The Ag-Radar estimate for Sanford 9 miles away from you (far enough that I 
wish we had closer data site, working on that) shows that the two days below 
42F requirement was not met until September 26, and Sept. 27 had a high 
temperature over 68F.  But the requirement for a day with high temperature over 
68F AND over 80% sunshine was not met until October 6.
    I don't see this formula as a powerful predictor, esp. since I've seen some 
good color improvement while checking traps and doing fall scab index over the 
past few weeks.   And even if it was a robust predictor, it wasn't based on 
Jonagold.  Still it gives some numbers to possibly help explain late coloring 
conditions this fall.
    Easy to suspect the drought as a contributing factor.  I'm also wondering 
if you used ReTain on these Jonagold.  If so, do you think that had any effect 
on coloring?
- Glen
Glen Koehler
University of Maine Cooperative Extension
Pest Management Office
Voice:  Office 207-581-3882,   Cell  207-485-0918
491 College Avenue, Orono, ME  04473UMaine Apple IPMAg-Radar
On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 2:19 PM, kellyorchards  wrote:

Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a heavy 
crop?


Art Kelly
Kelly Orchards
Acton, Maine
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[Glen Koehler]

Hi Art
A contributing factor to problems with fruit color this fall has been
late arrival of minimum temperatures below 42F,   A "rule of thumb" from a
Cornell bulletin is that optimum coloring conditions require two days with
low temperature below 42F, followed by a day with high temperature over 68F
AND over 80% sunlight on that day.

 The Ag-Radar estimate for Sanford 9 miles away from you (far enough
that I wish we had closer data site, working on that) shows that the two
days below 42F requirement was not met until September 26, and Sept. 27 had
a high temperature over 68F.  But the requirement for a day with high
temperature over 68F AND over 80% sunshine was not met until October 6.

I don't see this formula as a powerful predictor, esp. since I've seen
some good color improvement while checking traps and doing fall scab index
over the past few weeks.   And even if it was a robust predictor, it wasn't
based on Jonagold.  Still it gives some numbers to possibly help explain
late coloring conditions this fall.

Easy to suspect the drought as a contributing factor.  I'm also
wondering if you used ReTain on these Jonagold.  If so, do you think that
had any effect on coloring?

- Glen

Glen Koehler
University of Maine Cooperative Extension
Pest Management Office
Voice:  Office 207-581-3882,   Cell  207-485-0918
491 College Avenue, Orono, ME  04473
UMaine Apple IPM 
Ag-Radar 

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 2:19 PM, kellyorchards 
wrote:

> Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a
> heavy crop?
>
>
>
> Art Kelly
> Kelly Orchards
> Acton, Maine
>
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[Kushad, Mosbah M]

I agree that a fruit needs adequate number of leaves to produce sugars that it 
uses to produce the coloring substance (anthyocyanin), among other things... 
However, fruit color will not be any better in an off year when the tree may 
have only a handful of fruits and a large number of leaves.  Mosbah

From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
Hugh Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 2:32 PM
To: kellyorchards; Apple-Crop discussion list
Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

A heavy crop will do it.  Find a tree with good color and then make an estimate 
of the leaves / fruit ratio. I'm betting the non-coloring trees have 10-40 
leaves or per fruit, whereas the good color trees will have 50-100+ leaves per 
fruit. My take on it..

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 12:19 PM, kellyorchards 
mailto:kellyorcha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a heavy 
crop?



Art Kelly
Kelly Orchards
Acton, Maine

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[Kushad, Mosbah M]

Art:  Many factors contribute to poor color in “Jonagold” and other varieties 
of apples.

1.  “Joangold” is not a high coloring cultivar, except in excellent sites 
where it can get adequate cool nights and warm (but not hot) days at least one 
month before harvest.

2.   “Jonagold” is a vigorous tree. Adequate pruning is a must for good 
color.

3.  Heavily fertilized trees produce poor color fruits.

4.  High temperature and high humidity during coloring will reduce fruit 
color.

5.  I have seen young trees produce good color fruits compare to older 
trees, but I have also seen the opposite, which gets back to tree management..

6.  I am not sure heavy crop load impact fruit color much . I would assume 
the opposite.. A tree that has a heavy crop load is likely to have less shaded 
fruits..

7.  In my opinion the key players are inadequate pruning and hot and humid 
weather before harvest.

8.  I have seen a NW grower mist a “Jonagold” block to increase color 
through evaporative cooling.   Not a good practice if you live in a humid area..
Mosbah Kushad, University of Illinois

From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
kellyorchards
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 1:20 PM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a heavy 
crop?



Art Kelly
Kelly Orchards
Acton, Maine
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[Hugh Thomas]

A heavy crop will do it.  Find a tree with good color and then make an
estimate of the leaves / fruit ratio. I'm betting the non-coloring trees
have 10-40 leaves or per fruit, whereas the good color trees will have
50-100+ leaves per fruit. My take on it..

On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 12:19 PM, kellyorchards 
wrote:

> Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a
> heavy crop?
>
>
>
> Art Kelly
> Kelly Orchards
> Acton, Maine
>
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[Apple-Crop] Jonagold

[kellyorchards]

Why are my Jonagolds not coloring?  Can this be an issue if they have a heavy 
crop?



Art Kelly
Kelly Orchards
Acton, Maine___
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