Re: [arin-ppml] AC candidates
Hi Bill, I agree with you that having a candidate disclose a potential COI is a major point, the reality is in a multi-stakeholder community led organization such as ARIN, wouldn't most qualified candidates have a conflict of interest when it comes to policy? I think there is a fair handed approach to the multiple mindset approach that is the AC as well as policy that is actively driven by community participation. If you see policy that seems skewed, then actively deny it in the PPML and at the general meeting. This is a benefit of the open Policy Development Process that ARIN has adopted recently. Unless there is clear "industry takeover" of multiple candidates in the same space, I don't really see the conflict of interest but rather a separate state of opinion. I think it is great you are asking for candidates to participate in a public forum of opinion and get to hear the words directly from the candidates themselves. I am sure other people have had similar concerns and the PPML is a great way to raise them. Thanks Dustin Moses Network Engineer III o: 208-762-8065 d: (208) 758-0489 w: intermaxnetworks.com a: 7400 N Mineral Drive Suite 300, Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815 -Original Message- From: ARIN-PPML On Behalf Of arin-ppml-requ...@arin.net Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2023 8:43 AM To: arin-ppml@arin.net Subject: ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 220, Issue 9 Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to arin-ppml@arin.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to arin-ppml-requ...@arin.net You can reach the person managing the list at arin-ppml-ow...@arin.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: AC candidates (Mike Burns) 2. Re: AC candidates (Chris Woodfield) 3. Re: AC candidates (Andrew Dul) 4. Re: AC candidates (Adam Thompson) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:12:20 -0400 From: Mike Burns To: Cc: , Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] AC candidates Message-ID: <18b6c8b26f1.de7c91b8305428.6034375938475563...@iptrading.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Bill, Fair enough, most people interested in this are likely to have some conflicts and it's important to consider those. If we unilaterally excluded all candidates with conflicts though, candidate pickings would be even slimmer. Regards, Mike On Thu,26 Oct 2023 17:22:13 -0400 b...@herrin.us wrote On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 6:58?AM Mike Burns wrote: > And I agree with Fernando that affiliations or connections to IP > brokers would be a point in their favor considering they are the > people distributing IPv4 addresses these days. Hi Mike, Before considering someone affiliated with an address broker for an ARIN position, I'd want them to demonstrate that they recognize the conflict of interest that's likely to pose and have a well conceived plan for addressing it. Conflict of interest corrupts even the best intentioned. I once quit a job I liked because despite his good intentions my boss unsuccessfully managed his conflict of interest. It placed me in a position where I couldn't properly oversee the prime vendor. So I'm sensitive to conflicts of interest. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin b...@herrin.us https://bill.herrin.us/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20231026/534972df/attachment-0001.htm> -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:17:55 -0700 From: Chris Woodfield To: "arin-p...@lists.arin.net" Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] AC candidates Message-ID: <049e6d23-8455-4411-a7ef-82e58cc3a...@semihuman.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The concern, as I see it, is not whether or not a candidate has potential conflicts of interest - you are correct that it would be extremely difficult to find candidates that do not. The question for me is, can a given candidate be trusted to properly separate their personal business interests from the interests of the community, and recuse themselves a given deliberation when there?s no other way to remove the appearance of such a conflict of interest? -C > On Oct 26, 2023, at 08:12, Mike Burns wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Fair enough, most people interested in this are likely to have some conflicts > and it's important to consider those. > > If we unilaterally excluded all candidates with conflicts though, candidate > pickings would be even slimmer. > > Regards, > Mike > > > > On Thu,26 Oct 2023 17:22:13 -0400 b...@herrin.us wrote > &
Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist
There is no definition for lease or leased IPs anywhere in the NRPM. This is getting into the same jargonized problem as before. IF ARIN was to define leasing IPs, then there is an expectation legally that leasing IPs is an "acceptable use" of number resources unless more policy explicitly denies leasing. However, the policy manual as it is now is intentionally vague enough to not argue for or deny leasing IP addresses as an acceptable utilization of resources. Additionally, as an SP, what does a lease look like? I understand this is opening up the proverbial can of worms, but I don't believe these statements can be mutually exclusive. Dustin Moses Network Engineer II o: 208-762-8065 d: (208) 758-0489 w: intermaxnetworks.com a: 7400 N Mineral Drive Suite 300, Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815 -Original Message- From: ARIN-PPML On Behalf Of arin-ppml-requ...@arin.net Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 6:16 AM To: arin-ppml@arin.net Subject: ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 216, Issue 35 Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to arin-ppml@arin.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to arin-ppml-requ...@arin.net You can reach the person managing the list at arin-ppml-ow...@arin.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing (Owen DeLong) 2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing (Ron Grant) 3. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing (William Herrin) 4. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4 allocation for IXPs (Matt Peterson) 5. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4 allocation for IXPs (Bill Woodcock) 6. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2023-2: /26 initial IPv4 allocation for IXPs (David Farmer) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 21:44:58 -0700 From: Owen DeLong To: William Herrin Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing Message-ID: <79bf00cf-e7bc-471f-a234-f77e1beec...@delong.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 What if the registrant issues the addresses to downstream BGP customers? Owen > On Jun 20, 2023, at 15:16, William Herrin wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 8:54?AM ARIN wrote: >> Address space distributed from the waitlist will not be eligible for lease >> or transfer, with the exception of Section 8.2 transfers, for a period of 60 >> months. > > Fuzzy language. What is leasing? Suggest something more like: > > "If announced on the public Internet, address space distributed from > the waitlist shall be announced only by the direct ARIN registrant > until 60 months after receipt." > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > -- > William Herrin > b...@herrin.us > https://bill.herrin.us/ > ___ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN > Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues. -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 22:26:12 -0700 From: Ron Grant To: Owen DeLong , William Herrin Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2023-3: Amendment of the waitlist agreement to include a restriction on leasing Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed That's not a lease, in the sense that's of concern. "Downstream" implies a connection. Let's call that "rent". ISPs "rent" IP blocks all the time - even for their own customers. $10/mo for a static IP address instead of a DHCP assigned one - a practice as old as the hills. And business-based Internet is almost always a statically assigned CIDR subnet - for example one client of mine assigns a /29 for free, and charges an additional $1/ip for larger networks. That's rent. (ya I know, IANAL and the acronym speaks volumes) Seems to me the thing that's got everyone tied in a knot is the idea of allowing someone to lease out a wait-listed network to someone with whom YOU HAVE NO OTHER BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP. How to define that? Maybe "arm's length". https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arm%27s_length#:~:text=?Arm
Re: [arin-ppml] Policy Experience Report Working Group
According to ARIN policy, the maximum allocation size an organization can get is a /22 from the waitlist. Considering also that an organization can only have 1 waitlist request at a time and how long it takes to get an allocation on that waitlist, I don't see a lot of incentive for a for-profit entity to do this, especially over and over. I believe the waitlist parameters inhibit organizations do this for a money making scheme. Also, since the IP market already exists, what if an organization who gets an allocation from the waitlist, changes its priorities after a few months and decides to lease that space to another org? They cannot by policy 4.1.8 transfer that space to another organization for 60 months, unless they went through 8.2 rules which are about re-organizing/merging. Enacting a policy explicitly denying leasing after a waitlist fulfillment would be tying the hands of that organization and thus no-one benefits here. I do not see a reason to add policy around leasing those IP addresses at this time. Dustin Moses Network Engineer II o: 208-762-8065 d: (208) 758-0489 w: intermaxnetworks.com a: 7400 N Mineral Drive Suite 300, Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815 -Original Message- From: ARIN-PPML On Behalf Of arin-ppml-requ...@arin.net Sent: Friday, May 5, 2023 9:00 AM To: arin-ppml@arin.net Subject: ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 215, Issue 2 Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to arin-ppml@arin.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to arin-ppml-requ...@arin.net You can reach the person managing the list at arin-ppml-ow...@arin.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Policy Experience Report Working Group Leasing Question (WOOD Alison * DAS) 2. Re: Policy Experience Report Working Group Leasing Question (Michael B. Williams) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 5 May 2023 15:54:17 + From: WOOD Alison * DAS To: "arin-ppml@arin.net" Subject: [arin-ppml] Policy Experience Report Working Group Leasing Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good morning PPML! I would like community feedback on the leasing of ip space that is obtained from the waitlist. Please let me know what you think and if a policy proposal would be warranted. Thank you! -Alison -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20230505/047ba92e/attachment-0001.htm> -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 5 May 2023 11:58:03 -0400 From: "Michael B. Williams" To: "WOOD Alison * DAS" Cc: "arin-ppml@arin.net" Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy Experience Report Working Group Leasing Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Are you asking if an entity were to obtain IP space from the waitlist, should they be permitted to lease it to someone else? My answer is a resounding no. That defeats the whole purpose of the waitlist. Entities should not be encouraged to hoard IP space because ARIN will subsidise the cost, allowing a for-profit entity to make money from obtaining IP space. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20230505/193a607e/attachment-0001.htm> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5272 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20230505/193a607e/attachment-0001.p7s> -- Subject: Digest Footer ___ ARIN-PPML mailing list ARIN-PPML@arin.net https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml -- End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 215, Issue 2 * ___ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
