Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
But the platform is wrong. You're still forcing customers that have a solid application and set of processes built on the 5.6 apps to change platforms. TP From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Why not develop and support two application lines? ITSM 7.x for the deep pocket companies that might really need it and can afford it and a Helpdesk Lite if you will, for the smaller and mature companies that just need a solid app that's fully customizable and affordable? FYI, this is what the ITSM Express (ITSMe) suite is intended to provide: http://www.bmc.com/products/documents/32/18/83218/83218.pdf BMC ITSM Express combines industry-leading products, designed to meet the needs of the midsized business, into a modular IT service management solution that provides: * Incident and problem management * Asset management and discovery * Change and configuration management * Performance and availability management * Web access and identity management -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Company Dropping Remedy ** I wasn't necessarily stating that BMC/Remedy focus on small- and mid-sized customers to be its primary customer base. Rather, my point was, why turn your back on that market all together? A company shouldn't put all of its eggs in any basket, be it the small/mid or enterprise basket. And they shouldn't focus on a single solution for everybody's needs. One reason for BMC to continue supporting/developing smaller, more customizable apps than the current 7.x ITSM Suite? As many posters have stated, not everybody is ready for, nor wants a fully ITIL compliant package like 7.x just for sake of being ITIL compliant. Many customers have very solid business processes that their current 7.x application supports. Many of those same customers have realized the benefit of the awesome development package that ARS is and have built custom apps that they have integrated into the 7.x apps. They just need upgrades to the simpler (and customizable) applications they already have. Another reason to go back into that market is that not every company can afford the cost of a 7.x BMC application, but they have the need for something. One poster mentioned the old Rapid Results program. For $30k, the customer got 10 days of consulting services, a fully installed and configured Helpdesk product complete with Asset and Change Lite and a total of 8 fixed licenses. Once it was done, the company doesn't really need a developer on staff to do customizations, they just need an Application Administrator to manage the data. Quick, simple and affordable, both in initial startup costs and ongoing maintenance. And if they want to do some extra stuff, like build a custom HR app to integrate with it, they hire somebody (like the many find independent developers on this list) to help them do it and they're still ahead of the game. Those customers are still there, but Remedy is no longer servicing those needs. By focusing on ITIL and the 7.x ITSM Suite, BMC has excluded (intentionally?) smaller companies that can't afford it as well as those that don't actually need it and aren't going to change just for the sake of change. Why not develop and support two application lines? ITSM 7.x for the deep pocket companies that might really need it and can afford it and a Helpdesk Lite if you will, for the smaller and mature companies that just need a solid app that's fully customizable and affordable? M2CW, TP From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bradford Bingel Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:56 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Company Dropping Remedy ** Some additional points we may want to consider: 1. BMC Remedy appears to be tracking to ITIL standards rather closely. If ITIL is the objective, then the strategy should lean toward fully developed applications with little room for customization (thus ensuring ITIL compliance). If your organization is not moving towards ITIL, then BMC Remedy's product strategy may indeed appear to be out of synch with your operational requirements. 2. The long-term Remedy sales people (so few are left!) probably remember
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
Wasn't Service Desk Express formerly know as [...] Magic? Yes. Because the Express line now includes other products beyond the original Magic offering,and to be more indicative of it's small-to-mid-market target, the name was changed. For example, the Configuration Discovery Express product is based on the Enterprise version of such (which itself used to be known as Marimba). Some products, like Configuration Discovery Express, do enable a customer to integrate with CMDB although it is not required. This can be used as a stepping stone in a migration to an Enterprise product, such as the AR System based ITSM suite. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arslist Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:13 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** David, Wasn't Service Desk Express formerly know as that lesser product (not that you can call it that) known as Magic? I notice that the glossy for it has the famous spider diagram with CMDB in the middle, but since I am part of the Atrium/CMDB world, I am not familiar with what Magic uses at this point? Personally, I think the market would be better served with a Remedy based ITSM light, perhaps based on ITSM 4,5,6 rather than the Magic, but that is my personal opinion :-) ... Daniel From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: February 13, 2008 7:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Why not develop and support two application lines? ITSM 7.x for the deep pocket companies that might really need it and can afford it and a Helpdesk Lite if you will, for the smaller and mature companies that just need a solid app that's fully customizable and affordable? FYI, this is what the ITSM Express (ITSMe) suite is intended to provide: http://www.bmc.com/products/documents/32/18/83218/83218.pdf BMC ITSM Express combines industry-leading products, designed to meet the needs of the midsized business, into a modular IT service management solution that provides: * Incident and problem management * Asset management and discovery * Change and configuration management * Performance and availability management * Web access and identity management -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Company Dropping Remedy ** I wasn't necessarily stating that BMC/Remedy focus on small- and mid-sized customers to be its primary customer base. Rather, my point was, why turn your back on that market all together? A company shouldn't put all of its eggs in any basket, be it the small/mid or enterprise basket. And they shouldn't focus on a single solution for everybody's needs. One reason for BMC to continue supporting/developing smaller, more customizable apps than the current 7.x ITSM Suite? As many posters have stated, not everybody is ready for, nor wants a fully ITIL compliant package like 7.x just for sake of being ITIL compliant. Many customers have very solid business processes that their current 7.x application supports. Many of those same customers have realized the benefit of the awesome development package that ARS is and have built custom apps that they have integrated into the 7.x apps. They just need upgrades to the simpler (and customizable) applications they already have. Another reason to go back into that market is that not every company can afford the cost of a 7.x BMC application, but they have the need for something. One poster mentioned the old Rapid Results program. For $30k, the customer got 10 days of consulting services, a fully installed and configured Helpdesk product complete with Asset and Change Lite and a total of 8 fixed licenses. Once it was done, the company doesn't really need
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
And if it is Magic based and not ARS based, does that mean an entirely new implementation for my small size client who needs to upgrade from Help Desk 5.6? In other words, no upgrade path from where we are to where we need to go? What will happen to the other 8 or 9 custom applications currently co-residing with the Help Desk app on the same AR server? I agree with Daniel - we want and need a Remedy based trimmed down version of Help Desk. Call it lite or low-caloric...I don't care. I just know some of us need it badly. Help!! Please - and thanks for listening. :) Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arslist Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:13 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** David, Wasn't Service Desk Express formerly know as that lesser product (not that you can call it that) known as Magic? I notice that the glossy for it has the famous spider diagram with CMDB in the middle, but since I am part of the Atrium/CMDB world, I am not familiar with what Magic uses at this point? Personally, I think the market would be better served with a Remedy based ITSM light, perhaps based on ITSM 4,5,6 rather than the Magic, but that is my personal opinion :-) ... Daniel From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: February 13, 2008 7:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Why not develop and support two application lines? ITSM 7.x for the deep pocket companies that might really need it and can afford it and a Helpdesk Lite if you will, for the smaller and mature companies that just need a solid app that's fully customizable and affordable? FYI, this is what the ITSM Express (ITSMe) suite is intended to provide: http://www.bmc.com/products/documents/32/18/83218/83218.pdf BMC ITSM Express combines industry-leading products, designed to meet the needs of the midsized business, into a modular IT service management solution that provides: * Incident and problem management * Asset management and discovery * Change and configuration management * Performance and availability management * Web access and identity management -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Company Dropping Remedy ** I wasn't necessarily stating that BMC/Remedy focus on small- and mid-sized customers to be its primary customer base. Rather, my point was, why turn your back on that market all together? A company shouldn't put all of its eggs in any basket, be it the small/mid or enterprise basket. And they shouldn't focus on a single solution for everybody's needs. One reason for BMC to continue supporting/developing smaller, more customizable apps than the current 7.x ITSM Suite? As many posters have stated, not everybody is ready for, nor wants a fully ITIL compliant package like 7.x just for sake of being ITIL compliant. Many customers have very solid business processes that their current 7.x application supports. Many of those same customers have realized the benefit of the awesome development package that ARS is and have built custom apps that they have integrated into the 7.x apps. They just need upgrades to the simpler (and customizable) applications they already have. Another reason to go back into that market is that not every company can afford the cost of a 7.x BMC application, but they have the need for something. One poster mentioned the old Rapid Results program. For $30k, the customer got 10 days of consulting services, a fully installed and configured Helpdesk product complete with Asset and Change Lite and a total of 8 fixed licenses. Once it was done, the company doesn't really need a developer on staff to do customizations, they just need an Application Administrator to manage the data. Quick, simple and affordable, both in initial startup
OT - HelpDesk Lite (was Company Dropping Remedy)
Some of you know this and most don't... At one point in my life I was extremely work obsessed. I named my dog Remey'd - He is a registered pharaoh hound, so that is what is on his papers. A few years later, I got him a little sister... in keeping with the naming convention... I named and registered her as Marimba I am not renaming my dogs Can you see me at the dog park calling... Here Configuration Discovery Express From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Wasn't Service Desk Express formerly know as [...] Magic? Yes. Because the Express line now includes other products beyond the original Magic offering,and to be more indicative of it's small-to-mid-market target, the name was changed. For example, the Configuration Discovery Express product is based on the Enterprise version of such (which itself used to be known as Marimba). Some products, like Configuration Discovery Express, do enable a customer to integrate with CMDB although it is not required. This can be used as a stepping stone in a migration to an Enterprise product, such as the AR System based ITSM suite. -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arslist Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:13 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** David, Wasn't Service Desk Express formerly know as that lesser product (not that you can call it that) known as Magic? I notice that the glossy for it has the famous spider diagram with CMDB in the middle, but since I am part of the Atrium/CMDB world, I am not familiar with what Magic uses at this point? Personally, I think the market would be better served with a Remedy based ITSM light, perhaps based on ITSM 4,5,6 rather than the Magic, but that is my personal opinion :-) ... Daniel From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: February 13, 2008 7:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Why not develop and support two application lines? ITSM 7.x for the deep pocket companies that might really need it and can afford it and a Helpdesk Lite if you will, for the smaller and mature companies that just need a solid app that's fully customizable and affordable? FYI, this is what the ITSM Express (ITSMe) suite is intended to provide: http://www.bmc.com/products/documents/32/18/83218/83218.pdf BMC ITSM Express combines industry-leading products, designed to meet the needs of the midsized business, into a modular IT service management solution that provides: * Incident and problem management * Asset management and discovery * Change and configuration management * Performance and availability management * Web access and identity management -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Company Dropping Remedy ** I wasn't necessarily stating that BMC/Remedy focus on small- and mid-sized customers to be its primary customer base. Rather, my point was, why turn your back on that market all together? A company shouldn't put all of its eggs in any basket, be it the small/mid or enterprise basket. And they shouldn't focus on a single solution for everybody's needs. One reason for BMC to continue supporting/developing smaller, more customizable apps than the current 7.x ITSM Suite? As many posters have stated, not everybody is ready for, nor wants a fully ITIL compliant package like 7.x just for sake of being ITIL compliant. Many customers have very solid business processes that their current 7.x application supports
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle Applications may require the same amount of effort. The customer should consider all options.) I am sure BMC is aware of this condition. Obviously some existing (affected) customers will not like the options they have been given. [ Pay more(ITSM v7), or do more work(switch platforms) and get less] In short.. I think BMC is targeting new customers and mostly BIG customers at that. So the existing and/or smaller customers get the leftovers and may decide that what BMC has to offer is no longer good enough for them. Customer: Vote with your money. They will listen, or they will fade away into the distance with their head in the sand as you move your business to greener pastures. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Decou, Candace M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** And if it is Magic based and not ARS based, does that mean an entirely new implementation for my small size client who needs to upgrade from Help Desk 5.6? In other words, no upgrade path from where we are to where we need to go? What will happen to the other 8 or 9 custom applications currently co-residing with the Help Desk app on the same AR server? I agree with Daniel - we want and need a Remedy based trimmed down version of Help Desk. Call it lite or low-caloric...I don't care. I just know some of us need it badly. Help!! Please - and thanks for listening. :) Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business – global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: Where the Answers Are
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
Carey, I think that ideally, smaller businesses that want to use ARS (which BMC doesn't market aggressively enough) should pursue other options. There are vendors, some that post on here, that provide other ITSM suites that are cheaper, simpler, and are probably just as good if not better than the BMC applications. What you will probably see in the future is that Microsoft will eat BMC's lunch on small to mid-sized businesses within the next five years. We have people in my company that want to get rid of Remedy and go to an all-Microsoft solution (fortunately, those people don't have that much sway.) In the end though, you'll see ARS functionality replaced by Infopath and .NET for more complex development. You'll see their service management application tied in as part of Sharepoint but already integrated with MOM as the discovery suite for the CMDB and the alert system for changes and incidents. Microsoft is pursuing the market from the opposite side of what BMC is doing, but they'll eventually get the business you're talking about. If BMC started pushing ARS as one of their primary products, I think they would find a lot more clients. I can build something in ARS in one hour that would take at least a week for a .NET developer. BMC needs to advertise the fact that they have a development tool to build web enabled database-backed applications that can be cranked out much faster than .NET or Java. Shawn Pierson -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle Applications may require the same amount of effort. The customer should consider all options.) I am sure BMC is aware of this condition. Obviously some existing (affected) customers will not like the options they have been given. [ Pay more(ITSM v7), or do more work(switch platforms) and get less] In short.. I think BMC is targeting new customers and mostly BIG customers at that. So the existing and/or smaller customers get the leftovers and may decide that what BMC has to offer is no longer good enough for them. Customer: Vote with your money. They will listen, or they will fade away into the distance with their head in the sand as you move your business to greener pastures. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Decou, Candace M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** And if it is Magic based and not ARS based, does that mean an entirely new implementation for my small size client who needs to upgrade from Help Desk 5.6? In other words, no upgrade path from where we are to where we need to go? What will happen to the other 8 or 9 custom applications currently co-residing with the Help Desk app on the same AR server? I agree with Daniel - we want and need a Remedy based trimmed down version of Help Desk. Call it lite or low-caloric...I don't care. I just know some of us need it badly. Help!! Please - and thanks for listening. :) Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle Applications may require the same amount of effort. The customer should consider all options.) I am sure BMC is aware of this condition. Obviously some existing (affected) customers will not like the options they have been given. [ Pay more(ITSM v7), or do more work(switch platforms) and get less] In short.. I think BMC is targeting new customers and mostly BIG customers at that. So the existing and/or smaller customers get the leftovers and may decide that what BMC has to offer is no longer good enough for them. Customer: Vote with your money. They will listen, or they will fade away into the distance with their head in the sand as you move your business to greener pastures. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Decou, Candace M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** And if it is Magic based and not ARS based, does that mean an entirely new implementation for my small size client who needs to upgrade from Help Desk 5.6? In other words, no upgrade path from where we are to where we need to go? What will happen to the other 8 or 9 custom applications currently co-residing with the Help Desk app on the same AR server? I agree with Daniel - we want and need a Remedy based trimmed down version of Help Desk. Call it lite or low-caloric...I don't care. I just know some of us need it badly. Help!! Please - and thanks for listening. :) Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
I haven't looked at it yet because I have too much on my plate right now as it is, but is it not possible to upgrade to 7.x ARS and keep the existing HPD system? Or are you talking about falling off App as well as ARS support? - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Decou, Candace M Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle Applications may require the same amount of effort. The customer should consider all options.) I am sure BMC is aware of this condition. Obviously some existing (affected) customers will not like the options they have been given. [ Pay more(ITSM v7), or do more work(switch platforms) and get less] In short.. I think BMC is targeting new customers and mostly BIG customers at that. So the existing and/or smaller customers get the leftovers and may decide that what BMC has to offer is no longer good enough for them. Customer: Vote with your money. They will listen, or they will fade away into the distance with their head in the sand as you move your business to greener pastures. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Decou, Candace M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** And if it is Magic based and not ARS based, does that mean an entirely new implementation for my small size client who needs to upgrade from Help Desk 5.6? In other words, no upgrade path from where we are to where we need to go? What will happen to the other 8 or 9 custom applications currently co-residing
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
I understand that you aren't supported for the app if you don't upgrade it. I just wasn't sure if there was something keeping Candace from moving their existing HPD solution onto the ARS 7.x platform besides app support. I didn't know if there was a core change in the ARS system that wouldn't allow the older ITSM to work on the ARS 7.x platform. - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Correct. The ARS might be 7.x, but if the apps are 5.6, you're off the support matrix for that app. TP -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I haven't looked at it yet because I have too much on my plate right now as it is, but is it not possible to upgrade to 7.x ARS and keep the existing HPD system? Or are you talking about falling off App as well as ARS support? - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Decou, Candace M Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle Applications may require the same amount of effort. The customer should consider all options.) I am sure BMC is aware of this condition. Obviously some
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
Correct. The ARS might be 7.x, but if the apps are 5.6, you're off the support matrix for that app. TP -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I haven't looked at it yet because I have too much on my plate right now as it is, but is it not possible to upgrade to 7.x ARS and keep the existing HPD system? Or are you talking about falling off App as well as ARS support? - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Decou, Candace M Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle Applications may require the same amount of effort. The customer should consider all options.) I am sure BMC is aware of this condition. Obviously some existing (affected) customers will not like the options they have been given. [ Pay more(ITSM v7), or do more work(switch platforms) and get less] In short.. I think BMC is targeting new customers and mostly BIG customers at that. So the existing and/or smaller customers get the leftovers and may decide that what BMC has to offer is no longer good enough for them. Customer: Vote with your money. They will listen, or they will fade away into the distance with their head in the sand as you move your business to greener pastures. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:41 AM
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
I believe that 5.6 runs on 7.x but I know that 5.5 has issues with 7.x. Darrel -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:06 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I understand that you aren't supported for the app if you don't upgrade it. I just wasn't sure if there was something keeping Candace from moving their existing HPD solution onto the ARS 7.x platform besides app support. I didn't know if there was a core change in the ARS system that wouldn't allow the older ITSM to work on the ARS 7.x platform. - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Correct. The ARS might be 7.x, but if the apps are 5.6, you're off the support matrix for that app. TP -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I haven't looked at it yet because I have too much on my plate right now as it is, but is it not possible to upgrade to 7.x ARS and keep the existing HPD system? Or are you talking about falling off App as well as ARS support? - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Decou, Candace M Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
I'm not sure that's true... We upgraded to ARS v7.0.1 P5 but are still running CSS 5.0.1 due to heavy customization. Although the support matrix did not list CSS 5.0.1 as compatible with v7, it runs fine and required no changes. There has only been one additional release of CSS so when I inquired, I was told the app was still supported because they support the past two versions--the compatibility matrix didn't list it only because it had not been tested with v7. There was no known reason why it wouldn't work. I believe the apps are independent of the server version and two versions should be supported regardless of the combination. We also have Help Desk v5.6 installed and have no reason to move to ITSM since our only need is for internal support of about 400 people. //SIGNED// Craig Carter Software Engineer, RSP -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Correct. The ARS might be 7.x, but if the apps are 5.6, you're off the support matrix for that app. TP -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I haven't looked at it yet because I have too much on my plate right now as it is, but is it not possible to upgrade to 7.x ARS and keep the existing HPD system? Or are you talking about falling off App as well as ARS support? - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Decou, Candace M Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
But it's nothing to sweat. What kind of support did anyone ever received for the 5.x apps anyway? With the 5.x apps, most everything is workflow, so support is really only required when there is a defect in the binary parts of the product. Axton Grams On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Timothy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Correct. The ARS might be 7.x, but if the apps are 5.6, you're off the support matrix for that app. TP -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I haven't looked at it yet because I have too much on my plate right now as it is, but is it not possible to upgrade to 7.x ARS and keep the existing HPD system? Or are you talking about falling off App as well as ARS support? - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Decou, Candace M Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle Applications may require the same amount of effort. The customer should consider all options.) I am sure BMC is aware of this condition. Obviously some existing (affected) customers will not like the options they have been given. [ Pay more(ITSM v7), or do more work(switch platforms) and get less] In short.. I think BMC is targeting new customers and mostly BIG customers at that. So the existing and/or smaller customers get the leftovers and may decide that what BMC has to offer is no longer good
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
No, there is nothing keeping me from an ARS upgrade to 7.x - they wanted to upgrade the Help Desk app also and I ran into problems trying to get the CMDB to install. Now that I've gained more experience through the 6.x and 7.x ITSM apps I just don't think that it will fit their needs. But I like the idea of simply upgrading the ARS and leave them be for the rest of it. As for support, well yes, they would fall off of it for the HPD part, but that's why they have me, right? Thanks! :) Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:06 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I understand that you aren't supported for the app if you don't upgrade it. I just wasn't sure if there was something keeping Candace from moving their existing HPD solution onto the ARS 7.x platform besides app support. I didn't know if there was a core change in the ARS system that wouldn't allow the older ITSM to work on the ARS 7.x platform. - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Correct. The ARS might be 7.x, but if the apps are 5.6, you're off the support matrix for that app. TP -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I haven't looked at it yet because I have too much on my plate right now as it is, but is it not possible to upgrade to 7.x ARS and keep the existing HPD system? Or are you talking about falling off App as well as ARS support? - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Decou, Candace M Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
Yes, Timothy is correct. We could continue to be supported at the ARS level but we're getting way behind at the app level. The client would like to upgrade but it has now become more of a nightmare than anything. So I am familiar with Buoyant Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] stuff - what else is out there as a 3rd party Help Desk app that I might want to review? Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Correct. The ARS might be 7.x, but if the apps are 5.6, you're off the support matrix for that app. TP -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Dylan Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) I haven't looked at it yet because I have too much on my plate right now as it is, but is it not possible to upgrade to 7.x ARS and keep the existing HPD system? Or are you talking about falling off App as well as ARS support? - Dylan Wheeler Production Control Analyst Principal IT Operations Downey Savings Loan Association, F.A. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Decou, Candace M Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:31 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) LOL - No Carey, but I do support another company which is a small/mid size client. Been with them for years now really and just provide part-time (evening/weekend) as needed support (and upgrades/customizations when necessary). I so agree with what you are saying too and maybe you are right - maybe it's time for me to look for a 5.6 Help Desk 3rd party type of replacement for them, or build something from scratch. I'm petty darn sure that they can upgrade to 7.x ARS for all their custom applications, it's only the Help Desk piece I am concerned with for them. The really good news is that this client has managed to build applications supporting tech support, training, test centers, engineering, RMA and customer facing interfaces all using older ARS technology, all of which have migrated beautifully along the normal ARS upgrade paths (currently at 6x). Then we slapped Help Desk on top of all that a few years ago and everything is relatively flawless. They just don't want to fall off of support and I have a heck of a time trying to see that an upgrade on the Help Desk side is to their benefit given the huge overhead of what it is vs. what they need. Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
Shawn, I think you are right on. Sharepoint is a compelling application. Infopath is not quite there, but a very good start. All that is needed is a flexible business rules engine and bingo! With 44Billion to toss around, (since yahoo didn'y bite), I sure that can get there if they want. BMC seems to want to reel in all the big fish first, while ignoring the middle market. IMO, Remedy (Corp) worked the otherway around -- the small fish then bigger fish, and then got gobbled up... Sad. John - Original Message From: Pierson, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:16:09 PM Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Carey, I think that ideally, smaller businesses that want to use ARS (which BMC doesn't market aggressively enough) should pursue other options. There are vendors, some that post on here, that provide other ITSM suites that are cheaper, simpler, and are probably just as good if not better than the BMC applications. What you will probably see in the future is that Microsoft will eat BMC's lunch on small to mid-sized businesses within the next five years. We have people in my company that want to get rid of Remedy and go to an all-Microsoft solution (fortunately, those people don't have that much sway.) In the end though, you'll see ARS functionality replaced by Infopath and .NET for more complex development. You'll see their service management application tied in as part of Sharepoint but already integrated with MOM as the discovery suite for the CMDB and the alert system for changes and incidents. Microsoft is pursuing the market from the opposite side of what BMC is doing, but they'll eventually get the business you're talking about. If BMC started pushing ARS as one of their primary products, I think they would find a lot more clients. I can build something in ARS in one hour that would take at least a week for a .NET developer. BMC needs to advertise the fact that they have a development tool to build web enabled database-backed applications that can be cranked out much faster than .NET or Java. Shawn Pierson -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could sell you a Magic based application to do Process X for your company? If BMC does not fill the application need, then I would suggest that ARS customers turn to other vendors that are filling the need for them. Maybe it will still be ARS based, maybe not. But that is the risk that BMC takes when they provide no other options to their customers. (Switching from ARS to Magic or ARS to Oracle Applications may require the same amount of effort. The customer should consider all options.) I am sure BMC is aware of this condition. Obviously some existing (affected) customers will not like the options they have been given. [ Pay more(ITSM v7), or do more work(switch platforms) and get less] In short.. I think BMC is targeting new customers and mostly BIG customers at that. So the existing and/or smaller customers get the leftovers and may decide that what BMC has to offer is no longer good enough for them. Customer: Vote with your money. They will listen, or they will fade away into the distance with their head in the sand as you move your business to greener pastures. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Decou, Candace M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** And if it is Magic based and not ARS based, does that mean an entirely new implementation for my small size client who needs to upgrade from Help Desk 5.6? In other words, no upgrade path from where we are to where we need to go? What will happen to the other 8
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
Exactly the point I made a couple weeks ago, William, with the added point that companies that currently have ITSM 5.x would STILL have to do a complete application replacement, just as if they went to ITSM 7. And since the prospective customers are at least partially already BMC customers, the very valid question is: What's the point of spending $10 to make and sell a flawed $2 product, as opposed to spending $20 to make and sell a $50 product? Maybe the sweet spot is to re-release ITSM 5.x to those who ask for it, but with only limited support. I can't see a lot of cycles being spent at BMC to do more than that. Rick On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:17 PM, William Rentfrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I don't know that it's in BMC's best interest to create a lite version of HelpDesk on the ARS platform for several reasons. First - the application would be just as scalable as the ITSM suite is now - the scalability of Remedy has to do with the AR Server, etc, and very little to do with the application (as long as the code is tight, particularly indexing and searching). Anyone with familiarity for the system would buy the lower end version and customize for presumably less money overall. Second - they'd be undercutting the principle(s) of going to a full ITIL compliant ITSM application. Whether or not you drink the ITIL Kool-aid it's easy to see that a light application that had a few forms and just took basic information would undercut the philosophy. The big customers would have every justified right to say Umm...why are you pushing ITIL/CMDB on us if it's not really necessary - your other app doesn't have it. Third - pick any medium sized company - which application would they focus on buying? How would they even know what the right choice was? It would be a constant battle within BMC to approach the customer with the small vs. big product lines - especially when they have the same inherent scalability and the large product line can be implemented in a small way just by doing Incident Management. Just my $0.02. -- *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *john rosquist *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:54 PM *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Subject:* Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Shawn, I think you are right on. Sharepoint is a compelling application. Infopath is not quite there, but a very good start. All that is needed is a flexible business rules engine and bingo! With 44Billion to toss around, (since yahoo didn'y bite), I sure that can get there if they want. BMC seems to want to reel in all the big fish first, while ignoring the middle market. IMO, Remedy (Corp) worked the otherway around -- the small fish then bigger fish, and then got gobbled up... Sad. John - Original Message From: Pierson, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:16:09 PM Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Carey, I think that ideally, smaller businesses that want to use ARS (which BMC doesn't market aggressively enough) should pursue other options. There are vendors, some that post on here, that provide other ITSM suites that are cheaper, simpler, and are probably just as good if not better than the BMC applications. What you will probably see in the future is that Microsoft will eat BMC's lunch on small to mid-sized businesses within the next five years. We have people in my company that want to get rid of Remedy and go to an all-Microsoft solution (fortunately, those people don't have that much sway.) In the end though, you'll see ARS functionality replaced by Infopath and .NET for more complex development. You'll see their service management application tied in as part of Sharepoint but already integrated with MOM as the discovery suite for the CMDB and the alert system for changes and incidents. Microsoft is pursuing the market from the opposite side of what BMC is doing, but they'll eventually get the business you're talking about. If BMC started pushing ARS as one of their primary products, I think they would find a lot more clients. I can build something in ARS in one hour that would take at least a week for a .NET developer. BMC needs to advertise the fact that they have a development tool to build web enabled database-backed applications that can be cranked out much faster than .NET or Java. Shawn Pierson -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
I don't know that it's in BMC's best interest to create a lite version of HelpDesk on the ARS platform for several reasons. First - the application would be just as scalable as the ITSM suite is now - the scalability of Remedy has to do with the AR Server, etc, and very little to do with the application (as long as the code is tight, particularly indexing and searching). Anyone with familiarity for the system would buy the lower end version and customize for presumably less money overall. Second - they'd be undercutting the principle(s) of going to a full ITIL compliant ITSM application. Whether or not you drink the ITIL Kool-aid it's easy to see that a light application that had a few forms and just took basic information would undercut the philosophy. The big customers would have every justified right to say Umm...why are you pushing ITIL/CMDB on us if it's not really necessary - your other app doesn't have it. Third - pick any medium sized company - which application would they focus on buying? How would they even know what the right choice was? It would be a constant battle within BMC to approach the customer with the small vs. big product lines - especially when they have the same inherent scalability and the large product line can be implemented in a small way just by doing Incident Management. Just my $0.02. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john rosquist Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:54 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Shawn, I think you are right on. Sharepoint is a compelling application. Infopath is not quite there, but a very good start. All that is needed is a flexible business rules engine and bingo! With 44Billion to toss around, (since yahoo didn'y bite), I sure that can get there if they want. BMC seems to want to reel in all the big fish first, while ignoring the middle market. IMO, Remedy (Corp) worked the otherway around -- the small fish then bigger fish, and then got gobbled up... Sad. John - Original Message From: Pierson, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:16:09 PM Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Carey, I think that ideally, smaller businesses that want to use ARS (which BMC doesn't market aggressively enough) should pursue other options. There are vendors, some that post on here, that provide other ITSM suites that are cheaper, simpler, and are probably just as good if not better than the BMC applications. What you will probably see in the future is that Microsoft will eat BMC's lunch on small to mid-sized businesses within the next five years. We have people in my company that want to get rid of Remedy and go to an all-Microsoft solution (fortunately, those people don't have that much sway.) In the end though, you'll see ARS functionality replaced by Infopath and .NET for more complex development. You'll see their service management application tied in as part of Sharepoint but already integrated with MOM as the discovery suite for the CMDB and the alert system for changes and incidents. Microsoft is pursuing the market from the opposite side of what BMC is doing, but they'll eventually get the business you're talking about. If BMC started pushing ARS as one of their primary products, I think they would find a lot more clients. I can build something in ARS in one hour that would take at least a week for a .NET developer. BMC needs to advertise the fact that they have a development tool to build web enabled database-backed applications that can be cranked out much faster than .NET or Java. Shawn Pierson -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:07 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) Candace, So does BMC consider Verizon to be a Small to Medium company? :) Just kidding. I think the point is that the BMC OOB applications are not targeted toward that market. However, there are other partners (and non partners) that offer applications built on ARS for any market for a given task. I do not know why BMC would expect any existing ARS customer to want to move away from what they already have/know to something that is (even in the words of the vendor selling both products) less powerful/robust? And then maybe move back to the product they left when their needs grow enough to warrant that power/robustness. However, we can only buy what they have to sell. If it does not satisfy, then we have no other choice but to look for something that will satisfy. With ARS we can either buy an application from another company or build it yourself. (At least there are options.) I wonder if there are any other companies out there that could
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
That would work for us. We don't need a lot of support but they don't want to fall totally off the support for Help Desk either (what if they ever want more licenses?). They don't need a $50 product either and I can assure you they will not want to pay for that. They are very happy with their custom apps and the Help Desk app. They don't have the cycles or the money to even have a full-time Remedy person - witness I am only helping them a few hours here and there. As for the full ITSM suite, it is still way more than they need or want at this point. They use the little Asset form to track servers only, but don't require nor would they use a real CMDB. I can appreciate BMC's position relative to the marketplace. I just think that there are lots of us left who, for various reasons, cannot or do not choose to move in their direction. If they could provide a re-release of 5.6 as it existed and provide even limited support then I would be more than happy to slap that on. There are factions at that company that would like to dump Remedy - I would prefer not to help give them any reason to do so. :) Candace DeCou DOI Remedy Systems Analyst Verizon Business Office: (408) 371-1112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verizon Business - global capability, personal accountability. This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended only for use by the addressee unless otherwise indicated From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:33 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Exactly the point I made a couple weeks ago, William, with the added point that companies that currently have ITSM 5.x would STILL have to do a complete application replacement, just as if they went to ITSM 7. And since the prospective customers are at least partially already BMC customers, the very valid question is: What's the point of spending $10 to make and sell a flawed $2 product, as opposed to spending $20 to make and sell a $50 product? Maybe the sweet spot is to re-release ITSM 5.x to those who ask for it, but with only limited support. I can't see a lot of cycles being spent at BMC to do more than that. Rick On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:17 PM, William Rentfrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** I don't know that it's in BMC's best interest to create a lite version of HelpDesk on the ARS platform for several reasons. First - the application would be just as scalable as the ITSM suite is now - the scalability of Remedy has to do with the AR Server, etc, and very little to do with the application (as long as the code is tight, particularly indexing and searching). Anyone with familiarity for the system would buy the lower end version and customize for presumably less money overall. Second - they'd be undercutting the principle(s) of going to a full ITIL compliant ITSM application. Whether or not you drink the ITIL Kool-aid it's easy to see that a light application that had a few forms and just took basic information would undercut the philosophy. The big customers would have every justified right to say Umm...why are you pushing ITIL/CMDB on us if it's not really necessary - your other app doesn't have it. Third - pick any medium sized company - which application would they focus on buying? How would they even know what the right choice was? It would be a constant battle within BMC to approach the customer with the small vs. big product lines - especially when they have the same inherent scalability and the large product line can be implemented in a small way just by doing Incident Management. Just my $0.02. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john rosquist Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:54 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Shawn, I think you are right on. Sharepoint is a compelling application. Infopath is not quite there, but a very good start. All that is needed is a flexible business rules engine and bingo! With 44Billion to toss around, (since yahoo didn'y bite), I sure that can get there if they want. BMC seems to want to reel in all the big fish first, while ignoring the middle market. IMO, Remedy (Corp) worked the otherway around -- the small fish then bigger fish, and then got gobbled up... Sad. John - Original Message From: Pierson, Shawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:16:09 PM Subject: Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping
Re: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy)
David, Wasn't Service Desk Express formerly know as that lesser product (not that you can call it that) known as Magic? I notice that the glossy for it has the famous spider diagram with CMDB in the middle, but since I am part of the Atrium/CMDB world, I am not familiar with what Magic uses at this point? Personally, I think the market would be better served with a Remedy based ITSM light, perhaps based on ITSM 4,5,6 rather than the Magic, but that is my personal opinion :-) ... Daniel _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Easter, David Sent: February 13, 2008 7:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: HelpDesk Lite (was: Company Dropping Remedy) ** Why not develop and support two application lines? ITSM 7.x for the deep pocket companies that might really need it and can afford it and a Helpdesk Lite if you will, for the smaller and mature companies that just need a solid app that's fully customizable and affordable? FYI, this is what the ITSM Express (ITSMe) suite is intended to provide: http://www.bmc.com/products/documents/32/18/83218/83218.pdf BMC ITSM Express combines industry-leading products, designed to meet the needs of the midsized business, into a modular IT service management solution that provides: * Incident and problem management * Asset management and discovery * Change and configuration management * Performance and availability management * Web access and identity management -David J. Easter Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Powell Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:28 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Company Dropping Remedy ** I wasn't necessarily stating that BMC/Remedy focus on small- and mid-sized customers to be its primary customer base. Rather, my point was, why turn your back on that market all together? A company shouldn't put all of its eggs in any basket, be it the small/mid or enterprise basket. And they shouldn't focus on a single solution for everybody's needs. One reason for BMC to continue supporting/developing smaller, more customizable apps than the current 7.x ITSM Suite? As many posters have stated, not everybody is ready for, nor wants a fully ITIL compliant package like 7.x just for sake of being ITIL compliant. Many customers have very solid business processes that their current 7.x application supports. Many of those same customers have realized the benefit of the awesome development package that ARS is and have built custom apps that they have integrated into the 7.x apps. They just need upgrades to the simpler (and customizable) applications they already have. Another reason to go back into that market is that not every company can afford the cost of a 7.x BMC application, but they have the need for something. One poster mentioned the old Rapid Results program. For $30k, the customer got 10 days of consulting services, a fully installed and configured Helpdesk product complete with Asset and Change Lite and a total of 8 fixed licenses. Once it was done, the company doesn't really need a developer on staff to do customizations, they just need an Application Administrator to manage the data. Quick, simple and affordable, both in initial startup costs and ongoing maintenance. And if they want to do some extra stuff, like build a custom HR app to integrate with it, they hire somebody (like the many find independent developers on this list) to help them do it and they're still ahead of the game. Those customers are still there, but Remedy is no longer servicing those needs. By focusing on ITIL and the 7.x ITSM Suite, BMC has excluded (intentionally?) smaller companies that can't afford it as well as those that don't actually need it and aren't going to change just for the sake of change. Why not develop and support two application lines? ITSM 7.x for the deep pocket companies that might really need it and can afford it and a Helpdesk Lite if you will, for the smaller and mature companies that just need a solid app that's fully customizable and affordable? M2CW, TP From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bradford Bingel Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 1:56 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Company Dropping Remedy ** Some additional points we may want to consider: 1. BMC Remedy appears to be tracking to ITIL standards
