Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY???
This nagging limitation led me to check all other different keywords that may not be completely compatible or do not work correctly on the Mid-Tier and I found 2 others that might need some more work on them to be more useful.. $APPLICATION$ is set to NULL when the URL does not have the application name in it. Arguably this one could be considered as designed as perhaps that might be the only way for the client to know what application launched that form. $BROWSER$ returns "Netscape" irrespective of what browser you use IF it is not Internet Explorer.. Useful to an extent, but not completely if you need for whatever reasons to do something lets say specifically on Chrome but not on FireFox. This one could definitely get some more work from engineering to at least recognize the most popular browsers like Chrome, Safari, Firefox, Omni, Dolphin and an Unknown for all others.. I wonder how useful would a keyword $BROWSERVERSION$ be... Does AR System 8.x address any of the above??? Joe PS: The statements made above were w.r.t AR System version 7.6.04 or below.. _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Longwing, Lj Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 5:32 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY??? ** Based on the further analysis by Fred...I withdraw my hypothesis...I was shooting from the hipyou can miss quite often like that :D LOL On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Joe D'Souza wrote: ** @@: LJ Longwing, That sounds like it may probably be the reason why they may have not included $FIELDHELP$ (good reverse analysis..) - except that the help cumulatively does get loaded and can be seen if you press the Help toolbar if made available on the Mid-Tier on the form (see Fredrick's related email) Hypothetically assuming you are right on the reason, I think they should implement it anyway, and leave it to the developer to decide if he wants to or not have help associated with his objects. Let the developer worry about its impact to the system as afar as performance is concerned. Let it be known that the more help you have associated with your fields and your forms, the thicker they get and the bigger your network packets would get. @@: Fredrick Grooms Yes I did notice that the Help on the toolbar does load ALL the help defined on all the fields of the form. So that makes you wonder why wasn't it available for $FIELDHELP$ if the Help was available in that generic way. @@: Natlalie I concur completely. Not making a feature available altogether for performance reasons (IF that is the reason why it was not made available) sound unreasonable. Again I know LJ is only sporting a guess (a good one at that), its like implementing a hard limit to number of searches you can develop in set field if or push field if actions because searches if implemented badly could be a dangerous thing too.. But then how useful would a system be if such a limitation were imposed? Joe PS: I'm now really curious to know why this is not available now! _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Longwing, Lj Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 4:09 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY??? ** No, I don't know the answer to which you seek...but I can hypothesize?:) Ok...so field help can be 'bulky' at timesand the client (web browser) doesn't keep a copy of the form in question in the same way that the user tool did...so to try to keep the communication size between client/mid-tier/server as small as possible, as well as keep the Mid-Tier cache smaller, it was decided to not include the 'help' for each and every field on each and every form in cache, and transferred across the wire just a guess though...I certainly don't work for, nor represent BMC on this, nor ANY matterbut my explanation makes sense to ME :) On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Joe D'Souza wrote: ** Does anyone know the reason why the Mid-Tier is unable to support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword? The help on this keyword states that "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword; it returns NULL." Any reason why this would have been hard to implement on the Mid-Tier? I was hoping to use it on a very small form wherein I could set $FIELDHELP$ to a temp display only field on every gain focus action of a field, displaying the help of that field in that display only field. Works like a charm on the User tool, however it does not on the Mid-Tier because of this said limitation of the said keyword. With the impending slow death of the th
Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY???
Based on the further analysis by Fred...I withdraw my hypothesis...I was shooting from the hipyou can miss quite often like that :D LOL On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Joe D'Souza wrote: > ** > > @@: LJ Longwing, > > ** ** > > That sounds like it may probably be the reason why they may have not > included $FIELDHELP$ (good reverse analysis..) – except that the help > cumulatively does get loaded and can be seen if you press the Help toolbar > if made available on the Mid-Tier on the form (see Fredrick’s related email) > > > ** ** > > Hypothetically assuming you are right on the reason, I think they should > implement it anyway, and leave it to the developer to decide if he wants to > or not have help associated with his objects. Let the developer worry about > its impact to the system as afar as performance is concerned. Let it be > known that the more help you have associated with your fields and your > forms, the thicker they get and the bigger your network packets would get. > > > ** ** > > @@: Fredrick Grooms > > Yes I did notice that the Help on the toolbar does load ALL the help > defined on all the fields of the form. So that makes you wonder why wasn’t > it available for $FIELDHELP$ if the Help was available in that generic way. > > > ** ** > > @@: Natlalie > > I concur completely. Not making a feature available altogether for > performance reasons (IF that is the reason why it was not made available) > sound unreasonable. Again I know LJ is only sporting a guess (a good one at > that), its like implementing a hard limit to number of searches you can > develop in set field if or push field if actions because searches if > implemented badly could be a dangerous thing too.. But then how useful > would a system be if such a limitation were imposed? > > ** ** > > Joe > > ** ** > > PS: I’m now really curious to know why this is not available now! > > ** ** > -- > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Longwing, Lj > > *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2013 4:09 PM > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web > applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY??? > > ** ** > > ** > > No, I don't know the answer to which you seek...but I can > hypothesize?:) > > ** ** > > Ok...so field help can be 'bulky' at timesand the client (web browser) > doesn't keep a copy of the form in question in the same way that the user > tool did...so to try to keep the communication size between > client/mid-tier/server as small as possible, as well as keep the Mid-Tier > cache smaller, it was decided to not include the 'help' for each and every > field on each and every form in cache, and transferred across the wire > > ** ** > > just a guess though...I certainly don't work for, nor represent BMC on > this, nor ANY matterbut my explanation makes sense to ME :) > > ** ** > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Joe D'Souza wrote:*** > * > > ** > > Does anyone know the reason why the Mid-Tier is unable to support the > $FIELDHELP$ keyword? The help on this keyword states that “Web applications > do not support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword; it returns NULL.” > > > > Any reason why this would have been hard to implement on the Mid-Tier? > > > > I was hoping to use it on a very small form wherein I could set > $FIELDHELP$ to a temp display only field on every gain focus action of a > field, displaying the help of that field in that display only field. Works > like a charm on the User tool, however it does not on the Mid-Tier because > of this said limitation of the said keyword. > > > > With the impending slow death of the thick client, it would have been nice > to have features such as this available at the Mid-Tier level as well. > > > > If you ask me this feature would have been more useful on the web for > intuitive field help for a end user, than it is on a native thick client.. > > > > > Joe > > _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ > > ** ** > > _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ > _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY???
@@: LJ Longwing, That sounds like it may probably be the reason why they may have not included $FIELDHELP$ (good reverse analysis..) - except that the help cumulatively does get loaded and can be seen if you press the Help toolbar if made available on the Mid-Tier on the form (see Fredrick's related email) Hypothetically assuming you are right on the reason, I think they should implement it anyway, and leave it to the developer to decide if he wants to or not have help associated with his objects. Let the developer worry about its impact to the system as afar as performance is concerned. Let it be known that the more help you have associated with your fields and your forms, the thicker they get and the bigger your network packets would get. @@: Fredrick Grooms Yes I did notice that the Help on the toolbar does load ALL the help defined on all the fields of the form. So that makes you wonder why wasn't it available for $FIELDHELP$ if the Help was available in that generic way. @@: Natlalie I concur completely. Not making a feature available altogether for performance reasons (IF that is the reason why it was not made available) sound unreasonable. Again I know LJ is only sporting a guess (a good one at that), its like implementing a hard limit to number of searches you can develop in set field if or push field if actions because searches if implemented badly could be a dangerous thing too.. But then how useful would a system be if such a limitation were imposed? Joe PS: I'm now really curious to know why this is not available now! _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Longwing, Lj Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 4:09 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY??? ** No, I don't know the answer to which you seek...but I can hypothesize?:) Ok...so field help can be 'bulky' at timesand the client (web browser) doesn't keep a copy of the form in question in the same way that the user tool did...so to try to keep the communication size between client/mid-tier/server as small as possible, as well as keep the Mid-Tier cache smaller, it was decided to not include the 'help' for each and every field on each and every form in cache, and transferred across the wire just a guess though...I certainly don't work for, nor represent BMC on this, nor ANY matterbut my explanation makes sense to ME :) On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Joe D'Souza wrote: ** Does anyone know the reason why the Mid-Tier is unable to support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword? The help on this keyword states that "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword; it returns NULL." Any reason why this would have been hard to implement on the Mid-Tier? I was hoping to use it on a very small form wherein I could set $FIELDHELP$ to a temp display only field on every gain focus action of a field, displaying the help of that field in that display only field. Works like a charm on the User tool, however it does not on the Mid-Tier because of this said limitation of the said keyword. With the impending slow death of the thick client, it would have been nice to have features such as this available at the Mid-Tier level as well. If you ask me this feature would have been more useful on the web for intuitive field help for a end user, than it is on a native thick client.. Joe _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY???
Certainly the idea of optimizing the connection between client/mt/server seems reasonable. But if that's true (and I hear that you're only guessing, LJ), then it seems like it should be an option that can be turned on for individual fields, so that developers can turn it on and add that little bit of extra overhead when it makes sense to. I dunno about you all, but I tend to think that anything that can make life a little easier for the end-user is a good thing, particularly if implemented with wisdom. :) Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov<mailto:nkst...@sandia.gov> ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 - Windows 2003 - SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Longwing, Lj Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 2:09 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY??? ** No, I don't know the answer to which you seek...but I can hypothesize?:) Ok...so field help can be 'bulky' at timesand the client (web browser) doesn't keep a copy of the form in question in the same way that the user tool did...so to try to keep the communication size between client/mid-tier/server as small as possible, as well as keep the Mid-Tier cache smaller, it was decided to not include the 'help' for each and every field on each and every form in cache, and transferred across the wire just a guess though...I certainly don't work for, nor represent BMC on this, nor ANY matterbut my explanation makes sense to ME :) On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Joe D'Souza mailto:jdso...@shyle.net>> wrote: ** Does anyone know the reason why the Mid-Tier is unable to support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword? The help on this keyword states that "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword; it returns NULL." Any reason why this would have been hard to implement on the Mid-Tier? I was hoping to use it on a very small form wherein I could set $FIELDHELP$ to a temp display only field on every gain focus action of a field, displaying the help of that field in that display only field. Works like a charm on the User tool, however it does not on the Mid-Tier because of this said limitation of the said keyword. With the impending slow death of the thick client, it would have been nice to have features such as this available at the Mid-Tier level as well. If you ask me this feature would have been more useful on the web for intuitive field help for a end user, than it is on a native thick client.. Joe _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY???
Possibly of course if you hit Help in the toolbar on a form in Mid-Tier you get the help for ALL fields on the form. And $FIELDID$ states "Returns NULL if the FIELDHELP keyword is not implemented." so I wonder if it is somehow related to not maintaining a list of what object has the focus Fred From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Longwing, Lj Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:09 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY??? ** No, I don't know the answer to which you seek...but I can hypothesize?:) Ok...so field help can be 'bulky' at timesand the client (web browser) doesn't keep a copy of the form in question in the same way that the user tool did...so to try to keep the communication size between client/mid-tier/server as small as possible, as well as keep the Mid-Tier cache smaller, it was decided to not include the 'help' for each and every field on each and every form in cache, and transferred across the wire just a guess though...I certainly don't work for, nor represent BMC on this, nor ANY matterbut my explanation makes sense to ME :) -Original Message- On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Joe D'Souza wrote: ** Does anyone know the reason why the Mid-Tier is unable to support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword? The help on this keyword states that "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword; it returns NULL." Any reason why this would have been hard to implement on the Mid-Tier? I was hoping to use it on a very small form wherein I could set $FIELDHELP$ to a temp display only field on every gain focus action of a field, displaying the help of that field in that display only field. Works like a charm on the User tool, however it does not on the Mid-Tier because of this said limitation of the said keyword. With the impending slow death of the thick client, it would have been nice to have features such as this available at the Mid-Tier level as well. If you ask me this feature would have been more useful on the web for intuitive field help for a end user, than it is on a native thick client.. Joe ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
Re: Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY???
No, I don't know the answer to which you seek...but I can hypothesize?:) Ok...so field help can be 'bulky' at timesand the client (web browser) doesn't keep a copy of the form in question in the same way that the user tool did...so to try to keep the communication size between client/mid-tier/server as small as possible, as well as keep the Mid-Tier cache smaller, it was decided to not include the 'help' for each and every field on each and every form in cache, and transferred across the wire just a guess though...I certainly don't work for, nor represent BMC on this, nor ANY matterbut my explanation makes sense to ME :) On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Joe D'Souza wrote: > ** > > Does anyone know the reason why the Mid-Tier is unable to support the > $FIELDHELP$ keyword? The help on this keyword states that “Web applications > do not support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword; it returns NULL.” > > ** ** > > Any reason why this would have been hard to implement on the Mid-Tier? > > ** ** > > I was hoping to use it on a very small form wherein I could set > $FIELDHELP$ to a temp display only field on every gain focus action of a > field, displaying the help of that field in that display only field. Works > like a charm on the User tool, however it does not on the Mid-Tier because > of this said limitation of the said keyword. > > ** ** > > With the impending slow death of the thick client, it would have been nice > to have features such as this available at the Mid-Tier level as well. > > ** ** > > If you ask me this feature would have been more useful on the web for > intuitive field help for a end user, than it is on a native thick client.. > > > ** ** > > Joe > _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
Sort of a Rant: Quote from Dev Studio Help - "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHEL$ keyword" - WHY???
Does anyone know the reason why the Mid-Tier is unable to support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword? The help on this keyword states that "Web applications do not support the $FIELDHELP$ keyword; it returns NULL." Any reason why this would have been hard to implement on the Mid-Tier? I was hoping to use it on a very small form wherein I could set $FIELDHELP$ to a temp display only field on every gain focus action of a field, displaying the help of that field in that display only field. Works like a charm on the User tool, however it does not on the Mid-Tier because of this said limitation of the said keyword. With the impending slow death of the thick client, it would have been nice to have features such as this available at the Mid-Tier level as well. If you ask me this feature would have been more useful on the web for intuitive field help for a end user, than it is on a native thick client.. Joe ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
