subject:"Re\: \[asterisk\-users\] Top Posting"


  I'm the opposite.  I'm likely not to scroll down 10 pages to see the 
  comments at the end.
 
 Wouldn't need to if people trimmed their posts properly.

Precisely (e.g., see above)! Indeed, my sense is that top-posting
*discourages* properly trimming email and that's my main reason against it.
If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that it
really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or bottom,
but people who top-post and don't trim create really hard-to-follow emails.
 

Good point.  I've found myself having to edit and trim replies to  poorly
constructed conversations in the past because we got to the N'th iteration
using either or both formats.


In this properly trimmed example, there's no record of who said what. I
like top posting--with trimming that removes no value and a resultant
message that has the entire history so I can delete the older messages. As
Outlook doesn't support the usenet approach to mail lists, what do people
recommend for a good way of managing this type of list? 

  --Don



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Richard Kenner ken...@gnat.com wrote:
  I'm the opposite.  I'm likely not to scroll down 10 pages to see
  the comments at the end.

 Wouldn't need to if people trimmed their posts properly.

 Precisely (e.g., see above)! Indeed, my sense is that top-posting
 *discourages* properly trimming email and that's my main reason against it.
 If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that it
 really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
 bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really hard-to-follow
 emails.


Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

Thanks,
Steve T

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Richard Kenner

 In this properly trimmed example, there's no record of who said what. 

When it's relevant, I trim in such a way that that information is
preserved.  But I would *never* leave in a header, just the identification
of the person who typed that part.  Most mailers, when you include text
from another email, put someting like XYZ wrote: before the included
text.  So usually it's just a matter of preservating that and adding any
that are needed that aren't there.

Yes, it takes a few minutes longer, but given that there are probably
hundreds of people reading my email, that's an investment that I find
*well* worth it.

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Richard Kenner

  If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that it
  really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
  bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really hard-to-follow
  emails.
 
 Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
 debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

Yes, but if you put those at the end, where they belong, people reading
the email can follow the thread quite easily and can ignore those if
they don't need them.  Certainly only a tiny part of such, if any at all,
should be included in a reply.

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


On 1/2/2013 11:30 AM, Richard Kenner wrote:

If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that it
really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really hard-to-follow
emails.

Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

Yes, but if you put those at the end, where they belong, people reading
the email can follow the thread quite easily and can ignore those if
they don't need them.  Certainly only a tiny part of such, if any at all,
should be included in a reply.

Ok folks, could not stop myself any longer.   This pissing and moaning 
is foolish to say the least.  There was a post a while ago in the 
original hijacked thread by Steve Edwards that gave a link to the rules 
of the list at:

http://www.asterisk.org/community/discuss/

GO READ THEM!

Directly before the list of Rules is:

Show consideration. It's important to read the rules before posting on a 
mailing list.


Sage advice if you ask me, and yes I know nobody actually asked me.

It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took 
the time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you do 
not like the rules you can always petition Digium to change them but, 
taking up bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing match is 
a futile waste of time.


Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
JohnM


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


On 1/2/2013 12:00 PM, j...@millican.us wrote:

On 1/2/2013 11:30 AM, Richard Kenner wrote:
If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough 
that it

really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really 
hard-to-follow

emails.

Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

Yes, but if you put those at the end, where they belong, people reading
the email can follow the thread quite easily and can ignore those if
they don't need them.  Certainly only a tiny part of such, if any at 
all,

should be included in a reply.

Ok folks, could not stop myself any longer.   This pissing and moaning 
is foolish to say the least.  There was a post a while ago in the 
original hijacked thread by Steve Edwards that gave a link to the 
rules of the list at:

http://www.asterisk.org/community/discuss/

GO READ THEM!

Directly before the list of Rules is:

Show consideration. It's important to read the rules before posting on 
a mailing list.


Sage advice if you ask me, and yes I know nobody actually asked me.

It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took 
the time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you 
do not like the rules you can always petition Digium to change them 
but, taking up bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing 
match is a futile waste of time.


Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
JohnM

PS. Did not intend to imply that it was Steve that hijacked the thread, 
in case anyone read my comment that way

JohnM


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Danny Nicholas

 Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
 JohnM

PS. Did not intend to imply that it was Steve that hijacked the thread, in
case anyone read my comment that way JohnM

Steve has waded through enough of these that he should be a hijacker.


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:00 PM, j...@millican.us j...@millican.us wrote:
 On 1/2/2013 11:30 AM, Richard Kenner wrote:

 If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that it
 really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
 bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really
 hard-to-follow
 emails.

 Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
 debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

 Yes, but if you put those at the end, where they belong, people reading
 the email can follow the thread quite easily and can ignore those if
 they don't need them.  Certainly only a tiny part of such, if any at all,
 should be included in a reply.

 Ok folks, could not stop myself any longer.   This pissing and moaning is
 foolish to say the least.  There was a post a while ago in the original
 hijacked thread by Steve Edwards that gave a link to the rules of the list
 at:
 http://www.asterisk.org/community/discuss/

 GO READ THEM!

 Directly before the list of Rules is:

 Show consideration. It's important to read the rules before posting on a
 mailing list.

 Sage advice if you ask me, and yes I know nobody actually asked me.

 It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took the
 time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you do not like
 the rules you can always petition Digium to change them but, taking up
 bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing match is a futile
 waste of time.

 Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
 JohnM


I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
through and agree to these update ToS.

I am grandfathered in.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


On 1/2/2013 12:20 PM, Steve Totaro wrote:

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:00 PM, j...@millican.us j...@millican.us wrote:

On 1/2/2013 11:30 AM, Richard Kenner wrote:

If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that it
really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really
hard-to-follow
emails.

Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

Yes, but if you put those at the end, where they belong, people reading
the email can follow the thread quite easily and can ignore those if
they don't need them.  Certainly only a tiny part of such, if any at all,
should be included in a reply.


Ok folks, could not stop myself any longer.   This pissing and moaning is
foolish to say the least.  There was a post a while ago in the original
hijacked thread by Steve Edwards that gave a link to the rules of the list
at:
http://www.asterisk.org/community/discuss/

GO READ THEM!

Directly before the list of Rules is:

Show consideration. It's important to read the rules before posting on a
mailing list.

Sage advice if you ask me, and yes I know nobody actually asked me.

It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took the
time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you do not like
the rules you can always petition Digium to change them but, taking up
bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing match is a futile
waste of time.

Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
JohnM


I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
through and agree to these update ToS.

I am grandfathered in.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro
So Steve, can I steal this and send it to the IRS? The ATF? Local Police 
Department? G  Wouldn't that be nice!  Sorry couldn't  resist.

JohnM

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread jon pounder


On 01/02/2013 12:20 PM, Steve Totaro wrote:


good one - me too !


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:00 PM, j...@millican.us j...@millican.us wrote:

On 1/2/2013 11:30 AM, Richard Kenner wrote:

If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that it
really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really
hard-to-follow
emails.

Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

Yes, but if you put those at the end, where they belong, people reading
the email can follow the thread quite easily and can ignore those if
they don't need them.  Certainly only a tiny part of such, if any at all,
should be included in a reply.


Ok folks, could not stop myself any longer.   This pissing and moaning is
foolish to say the least.  There was a post a while ago in the original
hijacked thread by Steve Edwards that gave a link to the rules of the list
at:
http://www.asterisk.org/community/discuss/

GO READ THEM!

Directly before the list of Rules is:

Show consideration. It's important to read the rules before posting on a
mailing list.

Sage advice if you ask me, and yes I know nobody actually asked me.

It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took the
time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you do not like
the rules you can always petition Digium to change them but, taking up
bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing match is a futile
waste of time.

Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
JohnM


I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
through and agree to these update ToS.

I am grandfathered in.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Ira


At 08:22 AM 1/2/2013, you wrote:


 Wouldn't need to if people trimmed their posts properly.

 Precisely (e.g., see above)! Indeed, my sense is that top-posting
 *discourages* properly trimming email and that's my main reason against it.
 If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that it
 really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
 bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really hard-to-follow
 emails.



I would think that if people properly trimmed their posts it would 
hardly matter at all and that life would be a lot better if we griped 
about that instead of where to post.


And I find the people who top post somewhat insulting, I usually top 
post because my email program has no clue what a thread is. I always 
trim my messages and unless the topic is really interesting I won't 
scroll more than 1 or 2 pages to see an answer.


And I started communicating with a 2400 baud modem so trimming was a 
necessity and a requirement of friendship.


I think the Will Asterisk run on a Rasberry Pi thread the perfect 
example of why this list is dying. I don't have a Pi but I did spend 
an hour one day researching one and I know I came across all the 
answers in that thread. Sadly, for me, the Pi is the perfect example 
of why there needs to be $25 USB to POTs and USB to analog phone adapters.


Ira 



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took the
time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you do not like
the rules you can always petition Digium to change them but, taking up
bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing match is a futile
waste of time.

Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
JohnM

I'm 69, not too likely to do much more growing up, and I do follow the
rules, unless the thread is already top-posted.

I'm young enough, though, that I don't have a problem discussing change, and
I thought I had started a new thread with the Top Posting subject so you
wouldn't need to waste your time looking at it.

If there were change, I'd think it would be better to come from the list
users rather than from Digium.

If you'd like to add real value to this discussion, you might respond to my
request for information on what product/procedure/whatever would enable me
to follow and participate in bottom-posted discussions as it doesn't appear
that Outlook or gmail are very effective.

  --Don



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Carlos Alvarez

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Ira i...@extrasensory.com wrote:


 And I started communicating with a 2400 baud modem so trimming was a
 necessity and a requirement of friendship.


Bah, spoiled kids.  Mine was a 110 baud acoustic.


 I think the Will Asterisk run on a Rasberry Pi thread the perfect
 example of why this list is dying.


The number of questions posted here that are easily answered with a search
or which are far too basic and open (how do I make Asterisk work) is very
high these days, and that does kill a list.  A lot of us are interested in
helping people who help themselves, and solving complex problems.  I've
seen many tech lists die off when people stop trying to help themselves and
ask intelligent questions.

As to top-posting, another example of when I think it's generally
acceptable is people using tablets.  I have found no way on either my iOS
or Android tablets to quickly/easily post in the traditional manner.  If
I'm faced with spending a few minutes carefully trimming a useful reply or
just not posting it at all, I'm likely to choose the latter if I'm on a
list that says absolutely never top post.

-- 
Carlos Alvarez
TelEvolve
602-889-3003
--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


On 1/2/2013 1:10 PM, Don Kelly wrote:

It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took the
time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you do not like
the rules you can always petition Digium to change them but, taking up
bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing match is a futile
waste of time.

Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
JohnM

I'm 69, not too likely to do much more growing up, and I do follow the
rules, unless the thread is already top-posted.

I'm young enough, though, that I don't have a problem discussing change, and
I thought I had started a new thread with the Top Posting subject so you
wouldn't need to waste your time looking at it.

If there were change, I'd think it would be better to come from the list
users rather than from Digium.

If you'd like to add real value to this discussion, you might respond to my
request for information on what product/procedure/whatever would enable me
to follow and participate in bottom-posted discussions as it doesn't appear
that Outlook or gmail are very effective.

   --Don



Umm, what about positioning the cursor below the previous post before 
writing your reply in outlook, I used to do it all the time when forced 
to use outlook by company policy or such. Click on scroll bar drag - to 
bottom of reply - click in message body, about a half seconds time, 
maybe a full second if you choose to move slowly. Admittedly though it 
has been a few versions since I have been forced to use Outlook, I 
currently use Thunderbird for mail and can set it to start my reply on 
top or at the bottom.


JohnM

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Ron Wheeler


On 02/01/2013 1:11 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Ira i...@extrasensory.com 
mailto:i...@extrasensory.com wrote:



And I started communicating with a 2400 baud modem so trimming was
a necessity and a requirement of friendship.


Bah, spoiled kids.  Mine was a 110 baud acoustic.

I think the Will Asterisk run on a Rasberry Pi thread the
perfect example of why this list is dying.


The number of questions posted here that are easily answered with a 
search or which are far too basic and open (how do I make Asterisk 
work) is very high these days, and that does kill a list.  A lot of us 
are interested in helping people who help themselves, and solving 
complex problems.  I've seen many tech lists die off when people stop 
trying to help themselves and ask intelligent questions.


As to top-posting, another example of when I think it's generally 
acceptable is people using tablets.  I have found no way on either my 
iOS or Android tablets to quickly/easily post in the traditional 
manner.  If I'm faced with spending a few minutes carefully trimming a 
useful reply or just not posting it at all, I'm likely to choose the 
latter if I'm on a list that says absolutely never top post.


--
Carlos Alvarez
TelEvolve
602-889-3003



If you are answering one of my questions, please feel free to top post, 
bottom post or post in the middle.

I would rather have an answer than nothing - no matter how nicely formatted.

Part of the problem is the way that Asterisk is delivered.
The configuration files are way too complex and handle a lot of obscure 
situations rather than being minimal working configurations.


I am not sure that all of the defaults actually make sense - I just had 
to go in and turn on tos in SIP. The default is none which is not what 
the docs that I found, recommend.

SIP login comes with defaults that are not recommended for security reasons.

The documentation is hard to use.
At the same time, there is an expectation in the public that a competent 
system administrator can install an Asterisk PBX.


This being said, given the number of Asterisk installations being 
installed each day by first-time administrators, the traffic here seems 
pretty reasonable both in volume and in level of difficulty.


Ron

--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Patrick Lists


On 01/02/2013 07:11 PM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:

The number of questions posted here that are easily answered with a
search or which are far too basic and open (how do I make Asterisk work)
is very high these days, and that does kill a list.  A lot of us are
interested in helping people who help themselves, and solving complex
problems.  I've seen many tech lists die off when people stop trying to
help themselves and ask intelligent questions.


Good point Carlos and I share your feeling. On the Postfix mailing list, 
when someone asks a basic how do I ... question, inevitably the 
response is one or more links to a section in the documentation. And 
that works really well. The interesting problems discussed on that ML 
outnumber the questions from those who can't be bothered to try to help 
themselves by spending a couple of minutes reading the docs. I would 
welcome similar responses on this mailing list to improve the S/N ratio.



As to top-posting, another example of when I think it's generally
acceptable is people using tablets.  I have found no way on either my
iOS or Android tablets to quickly/easily post in the traditional manner.
  If I'm faced with spending a few minutes carefully trimming a useful
reply or just not posting it at all, I'm likely to choose the latter if
I'm on a list that says absolutely never top post.


I only use Thunderbird to post but I now have seen several arguments 
that MUAs like Outlook and iOS/Android clients are simply  not capable 
of bottom posting  trimming. Perhaps the list admins could take that 
into account when appropriate.


Regards,
Patrick


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

On 1/2/2013  Don Kelly wrote:
 ... what product/procedure/whatever would 
 enable me to follow and participate in bottom-posted discussions as it 
 doesn't appear that Outlook or gmail are very effective.


Umm, what about positioning the cursor below the previous post before
writing your reply in outlook, I used to do it all the time when forced to
use outlook by company policy or such. Click on scroll bar drag - to bottom
of reply - click in message body, about a half seconds time, maybe a full
second if you choose to move slowly. Admittedly though it has been a few
versions since I have been forced to use Outlook, I currently use
Thunderbird for mail and can set it to start my reply on top or at the
bottom.

JohnM

I don't have any problem getting my reply to the bottom of the email, but
Outlook doesn't do any indenting or  or anything (Makes in-line comments
really hard to work with). When people following the rules trim everything,
I end up seeing Works for me Me too with no way of following the thread
to see what they're talking about (especially if the subject is Merry
Christmas and they're talking about Razberry Pi).

I don't think Outlook does what I'd like, so I'm not limiting my options. I
can use different email to keep track of the Asterisk lists.

  --Don



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Patrick Lists


On 01/02/2013 06:20 PM, Steve Totaro wrote:

I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
through and agree to these update ToS.

I am grandfathered in.


Just looked it up. I see my first post back in April 2003, yours in 
September 2003 and Jon in March 2003. Wow you find something fun to play 
with and suddenly a decade has passed :-)


Regards,
Patrick


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:25 PM, j...@millican.us j...@millican.us wrote:
 On 1/2/2013 12:20 PM, Steve Totaro wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:00 PM, j...@millican.us j...@millican.us
 wrote:

 On 1/2/2013 11:30 AM, Richard Kenner wrote:

 If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that
 it
 really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
 bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really
 hard-to-follow
 emails.

 Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
 debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

 Yes, but if you put those at the end, where they belong, people reading
 the email can follow the thread quite easily and can ignore those if
 they don't need them.  Certainly only a tiny part of such, if any at
 all,
 should be included in a reply.

 Ok folks, could not stop myself any longer.   This pissing and moaning is
 foolish to say the least.  There was a post a while ago in the original
 hijacked thread by Steve Edwards that gave a link to the rules of the
 list
 at:
 http://www.asterisk.org/community/discuss/

 GO READ THEM!

 Directly before the list of Rules is:

 Show consideration. It's important to read the rules before posting on a
 mailing list.

 Sage advice if you ask me, and yes I know nobody actually asked me.

 It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took
 the
 time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you do not
 like
 the rules you can always petition Digium to change them but, taking up
 bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing match is a futile
 waste of time.

 Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
 JohnM

 I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
 through and agree to these update ToS.

 I am grandfathered in.

 Thanks,
 Steve Totaro

 So Steve, can I steal this and send it to the IRS? The ATF? Local Police
 Department? G  Wouldn't that be nice!  Sorry couldn't  resist.

 JohnM


What the hell are you implying?  The local police love me, I am in
good standing with the ATF, FBI, DoD, DoS, USAID, DoE, DoL, and NSA.

IRS wants some money in April but don't they always? LOL.

Thanks,
Steve T

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Markus Weiler


Hi,
one more hint... (trying to translate the commands to english)
in Thunderbird open - Extras - Filter.. -
Filter-Name:  enter Top Posting
Subject - Contains: enter Top Posting
Action: Delete

Markus



Am 02.01.2013 21:31, schrieb Steve Totaro:

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:25 PM, j...@millican.us j...@millican.us wrote:

On 1/2/2013 12:20 PM, Steve Totaro wrote:

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:00 PM, j...@millican.us j...@millican.us
wrote:

On 1/2/2013 11:30 AM, Richard Kenner wrote:

If things were properly trimmed, the email would be short enough that
it
really doesn't matter that much if the new material is on the top or
bottom, but people who top-post and don't trim create really
hard-to-follow
emails.

Not really true often times when people do the right thing and post
debug and conf files often required to get meaningful help.

Yes, but if you put those at the end, where they belong, people reading
the email can follow the thread quite easily and can ignore those if
they don't need them.  Certainly only a tiny part of such, if any at
all,
should be included in a reply.


Ok folks, could not stop myself any longer.   This pissing and moaning is
foolish to say the least.  There was a post a while ago in the original
hijacked thread by Steve Edwards that gave a link to the rules of the
list
at:
http://www.asterisk.org/community/discuss/

GO READ THEM!

Directly before the list of Rules is:

Show consideration. It's important to read the rules before posting on a
mailing list.

Sage advice if you ask me, and yes I know nobody actually asked me.

It is not hard to follow the rules .  If the nice folks at Digium took
the
time to post rules we should at least TRY to follow them. If you do not
like
the rules you can always petition Digium to change them but, taking up
bandwidth on the list in this all to frequent pissing match is a futile
waste of time.

Grow up, follow the rules, have a good day.
JohnM


I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
through and agree to these update ToS.

I am grandfathered in.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

So Steve, can I steal this and send it to the IRS? The ATF? Local Police
Department? G  Wouldn't that be nice!  Sorry couldn't  resist.

JohnM


What the hell are you implying?  The local police love me, I am in
good standing with the ATF, FBI, DoD, DoS, USAID, DoE, DoL, and NSA.

IRS wants some money in April but don't they always? LOL.

Thanks,
Steve T

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Jim Lucas


On 01/02/2013 12:16 PM, Don Kelly wrote:

I don't think Outlook does what I'd like, so I'm not limiting my options. I
can use different email to keep track of the Asterisk lists.


Thunderbird (by default) bottom posts.  And it does the nice indenting 
and allows you to turn off that HTML crap...  :)


Anybody have any suggestions on a good email client for an Andriod 
device.  A client that actually lets me set BCC or allows me to edit the 
original message when I replying?  The built in client sucks!!!


--
Jim Lucas

http://www.cmsws.com/
http://www.cmsws.com/examples/

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread jon pounder


On 01/02/2013 03:22 PM, Patrick Lists wrote:

On 01/02/2013 06:20 PM, Steve Totaro wrote:

I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
through and agree to these update ToS.

I am grandfathered in.


Just looked it up. I see my first post back in April 2003, yours in 
September 2003 and Jon in March 2003. Wow you find something fun to 
play with and suddenly a decade has passed :-)


Are you sure about that ? I know I was doing stuff with asterisk back in 
the LSS days and that was around 2001





Regards,
Patrick


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, jon pounder j...@inline.net wrote:
 On 01/02/2013 03:22 PM, Patrick Lists wrote:

 On 01/02/2013 06:20 PM, Steve Totaro wrote:

 I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
 through and agree to these update ToS.

 I am grandfathered in.


 Just looked it up. I see my first post back in April 2003, yours in
 September 2003 and Jon in March 2003. Wow you find something fun to play
 with and suddenly a decade has passed :-)


 Are you sure about that ? I know I was doing stuff with asterisk back in the
 LSS days and that was around 2001



The archives are a bit sketchy before Feb of 2003.  I would guess my
first dabble was circa 2001 and started making money from it in 2002.
Right around the debut of the 3COM NBX 100.

Thanks,
Steve T

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread jon pounder


On 01/02/2013 03:35 PM, Jim Lucas wrote:

On 01/02/2013 12:16 PM, Don Kelly wrote:
I don't think Outlook does what I'd like, so I'm not limiting my 
options. I

can use different email to keep track of the Asterisk lists.


Thunderbird (by default) bottom posts.  And it does the nice indenting 
and allows you to turn off that HTML crap...  :)


Anybody have any suggestions on a good email client for an Andriod 
device.  A client that actually lets me set BCC or allows me to edit 
the original message when I replying?  The built in client sucks!!!



maildroid has a lot of features but kills your battery FAST.

I only start it when I am expecting an important email and task kill it 
afterwards or it stays running.




--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

Gmail has just updated some stuff and I've been fiddling with the gmail ap
on Android (Ice Cream Sandwich).

I can select inline reply, delete superfluous stuff and go to the bottom
for my post.

After a few messages back and forth, the thread is displayed with a Show
quoted text link for each post and the current post at the bottom.

In gmail in my Chrome browser, the message is displayed with the subject at
the top and each of the posts (without quoting--even though it's in the
message) all nicely stacked up below. I haven't found the bottom post button
in the browser.

--Don

 


-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of jon pounder
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 2:57 PM
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

On 01/02/2013 03:35 PM, Jim Lucas wrote:
 On 01/02/2013 12:16 PM, Don Kelly wrote:
 I don't think Outlook does what I'd like, so I'm not limiting my 
 options. I can use different email to keep track of the Asterisk 
 lists.

 Thunderbird (by default) bottom posts.  And it does the nice indenting 
 and allows you to turn off that HTML crap...  :)

 Anybody have any suggestions on a good email client for an Andriod 
 device.  A client that actually lets me set BCC or allows me to edit 
 the original message when I replying?  The built in client sucks!!!

maildroid has a lot of features but kills your battery FAST.

I only start it when I am expecting an important email and task kill it
afterwards or it stays running.



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2013-01-02 Thread Patrick Lists


On 01/02/2013 09:46 PM, jon pounder wrote:

On 01/02/2013 03:22 PM, Patrick Lists wrote:

On 01/02/2013 06:20 PM, Steve Totaro wrote:

I became a list member way before any such rule and never had to click
through and agree to these update ToS.

I am grandfathered in.


Just looked it up. I see my first post back in April 2003, yours in
September 2003 and Jon in March 2003. Wow you find something fun to
play with and suddenly a decade has passed :-)


Are you sure about that ? I know I was doing stuff with asterisk back in
the LSS days and that was around 2001


I only looked at the list archives. LSS definitely predates anything 
else so it's safe to say you are dinosaured in :-)


http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Here's to another decade of fun!

Regards,
Patrick

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-31 Thread Steven Howes

We should all top *AND* bottom post!

On 31 Dec 2012, at 06:03, isr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Just my pitch in to post
 From a blackberry you can only top post there is no way of bottom posting 
 So if I would have to wait to get to a computer to bottom post I would just 
 never answer

We should all top *AND* bottom post!

(tongue firmly in cheek here..)

S
--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-31 Thread Benny Amorsen

isr...@gmail.com writes:

 Just my pitch in to post

 From a blackberry you can only top post there is no way of bottom
 posting

 So if I would have to wait to get to a computer to bottom post I would
 just never answer

Just delete the original post then. Not including context is perfectly
fine, it is easy to go to the parent article as long as the post
includes correct headers. Your post had the proper headers.


/Benny

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-31 Thread Danny Nicholas

***
***
Until Monopolysoft fixes Outlook, I think we should Middle Post - Happy
New Year to New Zealand!
***
***


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-31 Thread Danny Nicholas

My assembler may be a little bit rusty, but wouldn't -1 against rule #5 =
+1 for rule #5?


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-31 Thread Don Kelly

Deleting everything would really confuse me


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-31 Thread Don Kelly

Tongue firmly in both cheeks? How do you do that?


-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steven Howes
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:26 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

We should all top *AND* bottom post!

On 31 Dec 2012, at 06:03, isr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Just my pitch in to post
 From a blackberry you can only top post there is no way of bottom 
 posting So if I would have to wait to get to a computer to bottom post 
 I would just never answer

We should all top *AND* bottom post!

(tongue firmly in cheek here..)

S


Tongue firmly in both cheeks? How do you do that?



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-31 Thread Danny Nicholas

Wouldn't the answer to that violate family forum rules (see Charlie Sheen
jokes)

-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Don Kelly
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:18 AM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

Tongue firmly in both cheeks? How do you do that?


-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steven Howes
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 3:26 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

We should all top *AND* bottom post!

On 31 Dec 2012, at 06:03, isr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Just my pitch in to post
 From a blackberry you can only top post there is no way of bottom 
 posting So if I would have to wait to get to a computer to bottom post 
 I would just never answer

We should all top *AND* bottom post!

(tongue firmly in cheek here..)

S


Tongue firmly in both cheeks? How do you do that?



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- New to
Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

I participate in a lot of lists and top posting is now the norm since 
people want to see quickly if the message is worth reading.
If the poster wants to intersperse comments in the following text, they 
announce that at the top so readers know to look further down.
Modern e-mail programs make it easy to figure out the history if you 
were not following the discussion closely.


Ron
On 29/12/2012 10:02 PM, Logan Bibby wrote:


I suppose I'm one of the few people that remember the content of 
threads by subject and easily catch up...


I'm also on my phone 99% of the time time and the way Gmail lays out 
emails makes top-posting beneficial to me.


On Dec 29, 2012 8:57 PM, Richard Kenner ken...@gnat.com 
mailto:ken...@gnat.com wrote:


 I realize the benefits of bottom-posting, especially when posting
 inline. But top-posting keeps things in reverse chronological order
 so any reader could catch up quickly on any missed messages in the
 chain. A new reader scrolls to the bottom and reads up.

What's there to catch up with if you don't first read what the
person
is replying to?  Do you think that everybody remembers every thread.
Of what value is it to see something like No, that didn't work.
*before*
a description of what it was that didn't work.

When people reply to an email, it's their responsibility, whether they
top-post or bottom-post to remove unnecessary old message and keep
just
what's necessary to understand the email.

One of the problems with top-posting is that it makes it easier to
forget
to do this.

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread Patrick Lists


On 12/30/2012 04:26 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:

I participate in a lot of lists and top posting is now the norm since
people want to see quickly if the message is worth reading.


Isn't it a bit of a stretch to extrapolate your experience with your 
lists to top posting being the norm? I am subscribed to several lists 
and bottom posting, proper trimming and commenting inline is the norm there.


Actually the norm is determined by the list rules. If the list rules say 
one must use bottom posting then one should use bottom posting. If 
someone does not like that then don't subscribe, find another source to 
ask a question (the forum, LUG, hire a consultant) or just bottom post.


Questions come before answers.
Answers come after questions.

-1 against changing rule #5.

Regards,
Patrick


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread Gergo Csibra

Sunday, December 30, 2012, 5:13:30 PM, Patrick wrote:

 On 12/30/2012 04:26 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:
 I participate in a lot of lists and top posting is now the norm since
 people want to see quickly if the message is worth reading.

 Isn't it a bit of a stretch to extrapolate your experience with your 
 lists to top posting being the norm? I am subscribed to several lists 
 and bottom posting, proper trimming and commenting inline is the norm there.

 Actually the norm is determined by the list rules. If the list rules say 
 one must use bottom posting then one should use bottom posting. If 
 someone does not like that then don't subscribe, find another source to 
 ask a question (the forum, LUG, hire a consultant) or just bottom post.

 Questions come before answers.
 Answers come after questions.

 -1 against changing rule #5.

Complaining about top posting on a list where's no moderation,
no sanction if somebody top posting is pointless.

but...

-1 against changing rule #5.

-- 
Best regards,
 Gergomailto:csi...@gmail.com


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread Benny Amorsen

Gergo Csibra csi...@gmail.com writes:

 Complaining about top posting on a list where's no moderation,
 no sanction if somebody top posting is pointless.

There is a sanction. People like me will score top posters lower and
soon not see their posts at all.

It is often a quick way to see if it is worth responding to someone. If
they top post, nothing of value is likely to come out of the
conversation.

So by all means, everybody who wants to, keep top posting.


/Benny


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread jon pounder


On 12/30/2012 03:54 PM, Benny Amorsen wrote:

Boy what an elitist attitude.

I have been on this list far longer than most people - long before 
digium even existed and if you don't value what I have to say - well 
just don't read it.


If you or your mail reader can't slice and dice a mailing list the way 
you want to see it well maybe its your opinions us top posters won't 
miss, since clearly you are lacking the skills to even have your tools 
format documents for you.





Gergo Csibra csi...@gmail.com writes:


Complaining about top posting on a list where's no moderation,
no sanction if somebody top posting is pointless.

There is a sanction. People like me will score top posters lower and
soon not see their posts at all.

It is often a quick way to see if it is worth responding to someone. If
they top post, nothing of value is likely to come out of the
conversation.

So by all means, everybody who wants to, keep top posting.


/Benny


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread Steve Edwards


On Sun, 30 Dec 2012, jon pounder wrote:

If you or your mail reader can't slice and dice a mailing list the way 
you want to see it well maybe its your opinions us top posters won't 
miss, since clearly you are lacking the skills to even have your tools 
format documents for you.


And let the flame wars begin!

If you or your mail reader can't slice and dice a mailing list the way you 
want to see it well maybe its your opinions us BOTTOM posters won't miss, 
since clearly you are lacking the skills to even have your tools format 
documents for you or have the courtesy to follow the rules of the list.


Just trim off all the crap except the point you are responding to and then 
I'm sure it's within your skill set to position your cursor down a couple 
of lines before typing.


--
Thanks in advance,
-
Steve Edwards   sedwa...@sedwards.com  Voice: +1-760-468-3867 PST
Newline  Fax: +1-760-731-3000

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting




On 30/12/2012 11:13 AM, Patrick Lists wrote:

On 12/30/2012 04:26 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:

I participate in a lot of lists and top posting is now the norm since
people want to see quickly if the message is worth reading.


Isn't it a bit of a stretch to extrapolate your experience with your 
lists to top posting being the norm? I am subscribed to several lists 
and bottom posting, proper trimming and commenting inline is the norm 
there.


Actually the norm is determined by the list rules. If the list rules 
say one must use bottom posting then one should use bottom posting. If 
someone does not like that then don't subscribe, find another source 
to ask a question (the forum, LUG, hire a consultant) or just bottom 
post.


Questions come before answers.
Answers come after questions.

-1 against changing rule #5.

Regards,
Patrick

Not really enough time in the day to keep track of different rules for 
all the forums.

I am more concerned about content than form.

As long as the questions get answered, I can figure out where it is but 
it is a PITA to scroll down through an e-mail to find out that there is 
nothing there worth reading.
I get over 100 e-mails per day that make it through my filters. I like 
to read the content as soon as it pops up rather than searching for the 
text.


Ron



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users




--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


On 30/12/2012 3:54 PM, Benny Amorsen wrote:

Gergo Csibra csi...@gmail.com writes:


Complaining about top posting on a list where's no moderation,
no sanction if somebody top posting is pointless.

There is a sanction. People like me will score top posters lower and
soon not see their posts at all.

It is often a quick way to see if it is worth responding to someone. If
they top post, nothing of value is likely to come out of the
conversation.

So by all means, everybody who wants to, keep top posting.
Questions by their nature are all top posted and bottom posted so if you 
know any answers, your participation will be encouraged.

It is only long discussions that will miss your input.

Ron


/Benny


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users




--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread James Mortensen

I have an idea! Instead of arguing over whether or not top posting or
bottom posting is the way to go, something that obviously no one will
*ever*agree on, why not move to Google Groups instead (or something
similar to
Google Groups).

When I post to Doubango's list, it's easy, there's no top or bottom posting
wars, it just works. In fact, in a thread, Google Groups usually drops you
right to the most recent message, so the people who like top posting can
still see the most recent message while the bottom posters will still see
the bottom posting format.

It's either this, or we can sit and watch intelligent people continue to
degrade one another and argue over something with no agreement in site. :)

When I mentioned this before, someone from Digium said this will never
happen, and it's unfortunate. Maybe they just like to see people bicker
and argue.

If there's a better alternative to Google Groups, or a way to set
preferences in the mailing list so that everyone is happy, maybe that's
something that could be done?

James

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Ron Wheeler rwhee...@artifact-software.com
wrote:

On 30/12/2012 11:13 AM, Patrick Lists wrote:

On 12/30/2012 04:26 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:

I participate in a lot of lists and top posting is now the norm since
people want to see quickly if the message is worth reading.

Isn't it a bit of a stretch to extrapolate your experience with your
lists to top posting being the norm? I am subscribed to several lists and
bottom posting, proper trimming and commenting inline is the norm there.

Actually the norm is determined by the list rules. If the list rules say
one must use bottom posting then one should use bottom posting. If someone
does not like that then don't subscribe, find another source to ask a
question (the forum, LUG, hire a consultant) or just bottom post.

Questions come before answers.
Answers come after questions.

-1 against changing rule #5.

Regards,
Patrick

Not really enough time in the day to keep track of different rules for
all the forums.
I am more concerned about content than form.

As long as the questions get answered, I can figure out where it is but it
is a PITA to scroll down through an e-mail to find out that there is
nothing there worth reading.
I get over 100 e-mails per day that make it through my filters. I like to
read the content as soon as it pops up rather than searching for the text.

Ron

--
__**__**_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:

http://lists.digium.com/**mailman/listinfo/asterisk-**usershttp://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

--
__**__**_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:

http://lists.digium.com/**mailman/listinfo/asterisk-**usershttp://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
James Mortensen
Project Manager, VoiceCurve, Inc.
866-707-4590
james.morten...@voicecurve.com
--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread James Mortensen

Sorry for double posting, but I realized it was JIRA I spoke with Digium
about, not Google Groups and the mailing list... However, I do think it's
worth investigating or looking into alternatives that are more user
friendly and that can make it easier to communicate with everyone on the
list, whether a seasoned pro, top poster, or bottom poster.

James

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:37 PM, James Mortensen 
james.morten...@voicecurve.com wrote:

 I have an idea! Instead of arguing over whether or not top posting or
 bottom posting is the way to go, something that obviously no one will *
 ever* agree on, why not move to Google Groups instead (or something
 similar to Google Groups).

 When I post to Doubango's list, it's easy, there's no top or bottom
 posting wars, it just works. In fact, in a thread, Google Groups usually
 drops you right to the most recent message, so the people who like top
 posting can still see the most recent message while the bottom posters will
 still see the bottom posting format.

 It's either this, or we can sit and watch intelligent people continue to
 degrade one another and argue over something with no agreement in site. :)

 When I mentioned this before, someone from Digium said this will never
 happen, and it's unfortunate.  Maybe they just like to see people bicker
 and argue.

 If there's a better alternative to Google Groups, or a way to set
 preferences in the mailing list so that everyone is happy, maybe that's
 something that could be done?

 James
 

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread Steve Totaro

Yeah.  I never really got the whole fanatical top vs bottom thing.
Whatever, I have answered way more than my fair share of free
questions (as in beer).  The person asking was always quite happy to
get a meaningful and helpful reply, no matter where it was in the body
of the content.

Why people get worked up over small things is beyond me.  Embrace the Chaos.

Thanks,
Steve T

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:42 PM, jon pounder j...@inline.net wrote:
 On 12/30/2012 03:54 PM, Benny Amorsen wrote:

 Boy what an elitist attitude.

 I have been on this list far longer than most people - long before digium
 even existed and if you don't value what I have to say - well just don't
 read it.

 If you or your mail reader can't slice and dice a mailing list the way you
 want to see it well maybe its your opinions us top posters won't miss, since
 clearly you are lacking the skills to even have your tools format documents
 for you.




 Gergo Csibra csi...@gmail.com writes:

 Complaining about top posting on a list where's no moderation,
 no sanction if somebody top posting is pointless.

 There is a sanction. People like me will score top posters lower and
 soon not see their posts at all.

 It is often a quick way to see if it is worth responding to someone. If
 they top post, nothing of value is likely to come out of the
 conversation.

 So by all means, everybody who wants to, keep top posting.


 /Benny



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


I just wish that my biggest problem with Asterisk was top or bottom posting!

Ron

On 30/12/2012 9:45 PM, James Mortensen wrote:
Sorry for double posting, but I realized it was JIRA I spoke with 
Digium about, not Google Groups and the mailing list... However, I do 
think it's worth investigating or looking into alternatives that are 
more user friendly and that can make it easier to communicate with 
everyone on the list, whether a seasoned pro, top poster, or bottom 
poster.


James

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:37 PM, James Mortensen 
james.morten...@voicecurve.com 
mailto:james.morten...@voicecurve.com wrote:


I have an idea! Instead of arguing over whether or not top posting
or bottom posting is the way to go, something that obviously no
one will /ever/ agree on, why not move to Google Groups instead
(or something similar to Google Groups).

When I post to Doubango's list, it's easy, there's no top or
bottom posting wars, it just works. In fact, in a thread, Google
Groups usually drops you right to the most recent message, so the
people who like top posting can still see the most recent message
while the bottom posters will still see the bottom posting format.

It's either this, or we can sit and watch intelligent people
continue to degrade one another and argue over something with no
agreement in site. :)

When I mentioned this before, someone from Digium said this will
never happen, and it's unfortunate.  Maybe they just like to see
people bicker and argue.

If there's a better alternative to Google Groups, or a way to set
preferences in the mailing list so that everyone is happy, maybe
that's something that could be done?

James
?



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread Carlos Alvarez

There's nothing wrong with the list. The current whining will die off and
things will be back to normal shortly. Meanwhile I was tempted to bin the
entire thread then realized there's some funny human psychology to be
laughed at.

Top posting to make a few people crazy. Normally I wouldn't.

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 7:37 PM, James Mortensen
james.morten...@voicecurve.com wrote:

I have an idea! Instead of arguing over whether or not top posting or
bottom posting is the way to go, something that obviously no one will *
ever* agree on, why not move to Google Groups instead (or something
similar to Google Groups).

When I post to Doubango's list, it's easy, there's no top or bottom
posting wars, it just works. In fact, in a thread, Google Groups usually
drops you right to the most recent message, so the people who like top
posting can still see the most recent message while the bottom posters will
still see the bottom posting format.

It's either this, or we can sit and watch intelligent people continue to
degrade one another and argue over something with no agreement in site. :)

When I mentioned this before, someone from Digium said this will never
happen, and it's unfortunate. Maybe they just like to see people bicker
and argue.

If there's a better alternative to Google Groups, or a way to set
preferences in the mailing list so that everyone is happy, maybe that's
something that could be done?

James

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Ron Wheeler
rwhee...@artifact-software.com wrote:

On 30/12/2012 11:13 AM, Patrick Lists wrote:

On 12/30/2012 04:26 PM, Ron Wheeler wrote:

I participate in a lot of lists and top posting is now the norm since
people want to see quickly if the message is worth reading.

Questions come before answers.
Answers come after questions.

-1 against changing rule #5.

Regards,
Patrick

Not really enough time in the day to keep track of different rules for
all the forums.
I am more concerned about content than form.

As long as the questions get answered, I can figure out where it is but
it is a PITA to scroll down through an e-mail to find out that there is
nothing there worth reading.
I get over 100 e-mails per day that make it through my filters. I like to
read the content as soon as it pops up rather than searching for the text.

Ron

--
__**__**
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:

http://lists.digium.com/**mailman/listinfo/asterisk-**usershttp://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
Ron Wheeler
President
Artifact Software Inc
email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com
skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

--
__**__**_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:

http://lists.digium.com/**mailman/listinfo/asterisk-**usershttp://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
James Mortensen
Project Manager, VoiceCurve, Inc.
866-707-4590
james.morten...@voicecurve.com

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
Carlos Alvarez
TelEvolve
602-889-3003
--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-30 Thread isrlgb

Just my pitch in to post
From a blackberry you can only top post there is no way of bottom posting 
So if I would have to wait to get to a computer to bottom post I would just 
never answer

-Original Message-
From: Carlos Alvarez car...@televolve.com
Sender: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:58:20 
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial 
Discussionasterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-29 Thread Steve Edwards


On Sat, 29 Dec 2012, Don Kelly wrote:


2.   How do we change rule #5?


-1.

--
Thanks in advance,
-
Steve Edwards   sedwa...@sedwards.com  Voice: +1-760-468-3867 PST
Newline  Fax: +1-760-731-3000--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-29 Thread Pete Mundy

On 30/12/2012, Steve Edwards wrote:

 On Sat, 29 Dec 2012, Don Kelly wrote:
 
 2.   How do we change rule #5?
 
 -1.

+ -1 from me too!

Ie I dislike top-posting on mailing lists and if a democratic approach was 
taken to rule changes (I have no idea is this is the case?) then I would vote 
against the change.

Just my 2c since we're discussing it.

Pete



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-29 Thread Logan Bibby

I'm a +1 for the change, should it come to a vote.

I realize the benefits of bottom-posting, especially when posting inline.
But top-posting keeps things in reverse chronological order so any reader
could catch up quickly on any missed messages in the chain. A new reader
scrolls to the bottom and reads up.

- Logan
On Dec 29, 2012 7:22 PM, Pete Mundy p...@fiberphone.co.nz wrote:

 On 30/12/2012, Steve Edwards wrote:

  On Sat, 29 Dec 2012, Don Kelly wrote:
 
  2.   How do we change rule #5?
 
  -1.

 + -1 from me too!

 Ie I dislike top-posting on mailing lists and if a democratic approach was
 taken to rule changes (I have no idea is this is the case?) then I would
 vote against the change.

 Just my 2c since we're discussing it.

 Pete


 --
 _
 -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
 New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

 asterisk-users mailing list
 To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-29 Thread Richard Kenner

 I realize the benefits of bottom-posting, especially when posting
 inline. But top-posting keeps things in reverse chronological order
 so any reader could catch up quickly on any missed messages in the
 chain. A new reader scrolls to the bottom and reads up.

What's there to catch up with if you don't first read what the person
is replying to?  Do you think that everybody remembers every thread.
Of what value is it to see something like No, that didn't work. *before*
a description of what it was that didn't work.

When people reply to an email, it's their responsibility, whether they
top-post or bottom-post to remove unnecessary old message and keep just
what's necessary to understand the email.

One of the problems with top-posting is that it makes it easier to forget
to do this.

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2012-12-29 Thread Logan Bibby

I suppose I'm one of the few people that remember the content of threads by
subject and easily catch up...

I'm also on my phone 99% of the time time and the way Gmail lays out emails
makes top-posting beneficial to me.
On Dec 29, 2012 8:57 PM, Richard Kenner ken...@gnat.com wrote:

  I realize the benefits of bottom-posting, especially when posting
  inline. But top-posting keeps things in reverse chronological order
  so any reader could catch up quickly on any missed messages in the
  chain. A new reader scrolls to the bottom and reads up.

 What's there to catch up with if you don't first read what the person
 is replying to?  Do you think that everybody remembers every thread.
 Of what value is it to see something like No, that didn't work. *before*
 a description of what it was that didn't work.

 When people reply to an email, it's their responsibility, whether they
 top-post or bottom-post to remove unnecessary old message and keep just
 what's necessary to understand the email.

 One of the problems with top-posting is that it makes it easier to forget
 to do this.

 --
 _
 -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
 New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello

 asterisk-users mailing list
 To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top posting - there is no rule.

2011-04-03 Thread Warren Selby

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 1:54 AM, Alec Davis siva...@paradise.net.nz wrote:

  What's with the occasional Un-Top-posting, there is no rule that says
 you can't, http://www.asterisk.org/community/rules


Really?  Why bring this up again?  The last 60-some odd thread in January
wasn't long enough for you?  Or perhaps you're just out looking to troll?
From the page you linked:


   1. Responses should be placed under the original quoted text.


-- 
Thanks,
--Warren Selby, dCAP
http://www.selbytech.com
--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top posting - there is no rule.

2011-04-03 Thread Alec Davis

 Really?  Why bring this up again?  The last 60-some odd 
 thread in January wasn't long enough for you?  Or perhaps 
 you're just out looking to troll?From the page you linked: 
 
 5.Responses should be placed under the original quoted text.

Sorry my mistake, didn't read to bottom of the rules.

Nearly top posted again, it was hard not to... Until I found what causes
Outlook to mess up formatting replies.
If reply indent option is enabled, and if message is received in HTML
format, need to disable HTML format (Send Plain Text)

Alec Davis


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-20 Thread Cary Fitch

 
 How amusing that you follow that statement by being too lazy to trim
 all of the irrelevant crud after your comment by pressing
 ctrl-shift-end followed by delete. It works in Outlook.  
 
 Tom

This is the problem, everyone has a personal goal.  One side wants fast
replies at the top, with no interest in the repetitive, redundant
signature/disclaimers  content below.  The other wants total historical
readability or questions and answers in top to bottom readability in every
message.  And, this is a type of list that is used by 1000s of individuals,
not people from a single company.  We are just lucky we don't have someone
posting in sentences that read from right to left. :-)

Also most (all?) mail clients don't allow setting preferences based on the
source of the message.  I.E. Top post for email, bottom post for the cooking
list and bottom post for the Asterisk list. 

And then almost no one trims anything no matter what their
preferences/beliefs are, and yells at others for top or bottom posting or
interleaving, usually while violating some other list rule or general net
etiquette.

How about just no quoting or only the actual last message you are replying
to?  The list doesn't require any quoting. Contribute your thoughts, and
leave it at that. Everyone has the previous posts on their computer, if they
don't know the history, let them go back and read.

Cary


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-20 Thread Danny Nicholas

-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Cary Fitch
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:06 AM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

 How amusing that you follow that statement by being too lazy to trim
 all of the irrelevant crud after your comment by pressing
 ctrl-shift-end followed by delete. It works in Outlook.  

 Tom

This is the problem, everyone has a personal goal.  One side wants fast
replies at the top, with no interest in the repetitive, redundant
signature/disclaimers  content below.  The other wants total historical
readability or questions and answers in top to bottom readability in every
message.  And, this is a type of list that is used by 1000s of individuals,
not people from a single company.  We are just lucky we don't have someone
posting in sentences that read from right to left. :-)

Also most (all?) mail clients don't allow setting preferences based on the
source of the message.  I.E. Top post for email, bottom post for the cooking
list and bottom post for the Asterisk list. 

And then almost no one trims anything no matter what their
preferences/beliefs are, and yells at others for top or bottom posting or
interleaving, usually while violating some other list rule or general net
etiquette.

How about just no quoting or only the actual last message you are replying
to?  The list doesn't require any quoting. Contribute your thoughts, and
leave it at that. Everyone has the previous posts on their computer, if they
don't know the history, let them go back and read.

Cary

Possibly the most literate and civil post in this flame-war...

Two points to add - #1 if you don't have the history on your computer, the
nice folks at Asterisk/Digium keep all of this online for posterity
#2 It's definitely not a good idea to keep the entire thread intact since
the server at A/D holds the message once it exceeds 40K.

No matter what your posting posture do everyone a favor and trim before
replying...

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-19 Thread C F

On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 9:47 PM, James Miller paramedi...@gmail.com wrote:
 When you get over 500 emails a day on your blackberry you have make a 
 decision on what is or is not worth reading at that moment.

 Its not lazy at all its cutting through the fluff and finding the emails 
 worth while.  When inside outlook you don't have the hot key b to scroll to 
 the bottom so again, I'd have to scroll down. Add up the time it takes per 
 email x 500 emails, you loose considerable amount of productivity.

Oh C'mon this is definitely lazy never heard of CTRL+END it works in Outlook


 Top posting has its useful place as well as bottom posting.


 Sent from my Verizon BlackBerry. Always on, Always Connected

 -Original Message-
 From: Fred Posner f...@teamforrest.com
 Sender: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
 Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:43:00
 To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial 
 Discussionasterisk-users@lists.digium.com
 Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
        asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
 Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

 On Mon, 2011-01-17 at 02:31 +, James Miller wrote:
 I hate to disagree but I find it much, much easier to follow conversations 
 when the newest reply is on top.  I find it too time consuming to scroll 
 through a long message just to find out someone left a three word reply.

 As I am on my blackberry more than I am at a pc, if I don't see the reply as 
 soon as I open the message it gets deleted without being read.  Time is 
 money and I don't have time to scroll through every message.

 I will agree that sometimes it is helpful to make replies at the bottom and 
 I will attempt to keep the peace by posting at the bottom when I can, but 
 top posting is easier and more clean to read than having 100 lines of  and 
 broken lines.

 Warmest regards,
 James


 Sent from my Verizon BlackBerry. Always on, Always Connected

 -Original Message-
 From: Lesly Dorval lador...@yahoo.com
 Sender: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
 Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 02:14:54
 To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
 Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
       asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
 Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

 Shaun Ruffell sruffell at digium.com writes:

 
  Whatever your preferred style, the following post is at least worth
  considering.
 
  http://brooksreview.net/2011/01/interleaved-email/
 
  My belief is that it would be nearly impossible for me to follow a high
  volume list if top posting was the preferred style.  For example, the
  following email from the LKML would need to be more verbose if all the
  participants were top posting, because they would all have to set the
  context for their comments.  Instead, you can follow the chain of
  thought for each of the threads contained in the email.
 
  http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1087665
 
  Anyway, just something to consider,
  Shaun
 I could never understand the strong objection regarding top-posting until 
 Shaun
 shared these examples - though I had been reading lists for more years than I
 care to admit.  These examples clearly show how snipping and bottom posting
 translate to susccint and clear contextual communication. From now I will
 evangelize snipping and bottom posting.



 I cannot imagine considering scrolling to the end of an email time
 consuming. Very sad. If you find it too difficult on your blackberry to
 press the B key (to jump to the bottom of the message) then I am
 uncertain how you have enough time to even read this email.

 I'm all for good arguments. That time consuming one is just lazy.

 I personally find top posting annoying and only serving to an immediate
 conversation. Particularly useless if referencing the message later.

 --

 With best regards,

 ---fred
 http://qxork.com


 --
 _
 -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
 New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
               http://www.asterisk.org/hello

 asterisk-users mailing list
 To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
 --
 _
 -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
 New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
               http://www.asterisk.org/hello

 asterisk-users mailing list
 To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-19 Thread Jason Parker


On 01/19/2011 12:18 AM, randulo wrote:

Although there's no requisite mention of ${Horrible_Dictator}, can't
we pretend there was, call a Godwin and kill this subject?


That would fall under Quirk's Exception: Intentionally invoking Godwin's Law to 
attempt to kill a thread is rarely successful. :)


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-19 Thread Don Kelly

  On 01/19/2011 12:18 AM, randulo wrote:
  Although there's no requisite mention of ${Horrible_Dictator}, can't
  we pretend there was, call a Godwin and kill this subject?

 11:39 Parker said
 That would fall under Quirk's Exception: Intentionally invoking Godwin's 
 Law to attempt to kill a thread is rarely successful. :)

Didn't work this time :)



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-19 Thread randulo

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Don Kelly d...@donkelly.biz wrote:
 11:39 Parker said
 That would fall under Quirk's Exception: Intentionally invoking Godwin's
 Law to attempt to kill a thread is rarely successful. :)

 Didn't work this time :)

Slightly OT: why is the Gmail ad server, which is usually all about
PBX, Asterisk, etc, now showing me Justin Beiber concert tickets on
this thread? Are they seeing it as that childish?

/r

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-19 Thread Mark Deneen

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:37 PM, randulo rand...@randulo.com wrote:

 Slightly OT: why is the Gmail ad server, which is usually all about
 PBX, Asterisk, etc, now showing me Justin Beiber concert tickets on
 this thread? Are they seeing it as that childish?

 /r

Also OT:  Google combines message context with your personal search
history to do ad targeting, so look in the mirror.

I just made that up, though.

-M

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-19 Thread Danny Nicholas

-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Mark Deneen
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 1:43 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:37 PM, randulo rand...@randulo.com wrote:

 Slightly OT: why is the Gmail ad server, which is usually all about
 PBX, Asterisk, etc, now showing me Justin Beiber concert tickets on
 this thread? Are they seeing it as that childish?

 /r

Also OT:  Google combines message context with your personal search
history to do ad targeting, so look in the mirror.

I just made that up, though.

-M

Not your mirror - your cookies!

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-19 Thread Tom Rymes


On Jan 19, 2011, at 10:06 AM, C F wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 9:47 PM, James Miller paramedi...@gmail.com wrote:
 When you get over 500 emails a day on your blackberry you have make a 
 decision on what is or is not worth reading at that moment.
 
 Its not lazy at all its cutting through the fluff and finding the emails 
 worth while.  When inside outlook you don't have the hot key b to scroll to 
 the bottom so again, I'd have to scroll down. Add up the time it takes per 
 email x 500 emails, you loose considerable amount of productivity.
 
 Oh C'mon this is definitely lazy never heard of CTRL+END it works in Outlook

How amusing that you follow that statement by being too lazy to trim all of the 
irrelevant crud after your comment by pressing ctrl-shift-end followed by 
delete. It works in Outlook.

Tom
--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-19 Thread randulo

 Also OT:  Google combines message context with your personal search
 history to do ad targeting, so look in the mirror.

 I just made that up, though.

Not your mirror - your cookies!

No, it's true! Now I'm seeing Untimate Black Hat SEO (yes misspelled
because Ultimate was too expensive)

I was just looking at an SEO report site about top posting and they
say lists.digium.com is number 1 and needs no help.

And I do kind of look like Justin Beiber will in about a half-century
from now. That's why I have broken all the mirrors in the house.

/r

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

Top posting?  Who cares?  Get a life!

Now - can we get back to Asterisk et al?

Thanks!


-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Murawski
Sent: 18 January 2011 02:57
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


On 01/17/2011 08:26 PM, Matt Riddell wrote:
 On 17/01/11 4:29 PM, jon pounder wrote:
 Surely there is some mail client smart enough to be able to flip 
 around the levels of indenting so most recent is top or bottom. If 
 not quit bitching and make one - I will continue top posting since I 
 don't seem to be alone in preferring it.


That was one of the first things that came to mind.

 I'm definitely more keen on inline replies - if you reply to 20 points

 in someone's email you quote the part you're replying to then reply to

 it.

That was the standard for much of the 90's for emails.  I do like that 
method but most people don't seem to do it anymore.


 In a long email it's the only way. Otherwise you'd scroll down to find

 the question, scroll up to find the answer, scroll down to find the 
 next question, scroll up for the next answer etc - crazy.


It's also easier to keep the context of what's going on.  If replying in

one big block, I try to keep the style of one paragraph of response for 
each paragraph of question, but sometimes stuff just mixes in between 
and you can easily lose context.

 Much easier when replies are inline with the questions.


It gets hard to follow when there's a dozen nested levels of reply.  In 
conclusion, I think it just depends (tm).


-- _
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


 If you have received this communication in error we would appreciate
you advising us either by telephone or return of e-mail. The contents
of this message, and any attachments, are the property of DataVox,
and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only.
If you are not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible
for delivery of this message to the intended recipient, take note that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and
its attachments is strictly prohibited, and may be subject to civil or
criminal action for which you may be liable.
Every effort has been made to ensure that this e-mail or any attachments
are free from viruses. While the company has taken every reasonable
precaution to minimise this risk, neither company, nor the sender can
accept liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of viruses.
It is recommended that you should carry out your own virus checks
before opening any attachments. 

Registered in England. No. 27459085.



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread Paul Belanger

On 11-01-18 04:22 AM, Andrew Thomas wrote:
 Top posting?  Who cares?  Get a life!
 
Clearly not you, so why both even replying?  At worst case it is just
redundant information for people, best case somebody reads the email
thread at starts bottom posting.  I suggest taking a moment and
re-reading the thread.

  If you have received this communication in error we would appreciate
 you advising us either by telephone or return of e-mail. The contents
 of this message, and any attachments, are the property of DataVox,
 and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only.
 If you are not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible
 for delivery of this message to the intended recipient, take note that
 any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and
 its attachments is strictly prohibited, and may be subject to civil or
 criminal action for which you may be liable.
 Every effort has been made to ensure that this e-mail or any attachments
 are free from viruses. While the company has taken every reasonable
 precaution to minimise this risk, neither company, nor the sender can
 accept liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of viruses.
 It is recommended that you should carry out your own virus checks
 before opening any attachments. 
 
 Registered in England. No. 27459085.
 
Additionally, do you really need a 17 line[1] signature?

[1] - http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/email/4.png

-- 
Paul Belanger
Digium, Inc. | Software Developer
twitter: pabelanger | IRC: pabelanger (Freenode)
Check us out at: http://digium.com  http://asterisk.org

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

Why do I top post?  Simple.  I read every message in the thread - and if
there are 10 messages (for example) in that thread - then why should I
have to read them all over again on the last one?

Top posting is here - to stay!

Stop being so anal and 'retro'.  Bottom posting belongs in forums - top
post belongs in e-mail lists.

There - said it!

As for my sig/disclaimer - how about 10 copies of it before you get a
reply?  That's what bottom posting would have done for you!

Anyway Digium, Inc. | Software Developer means you should be
developing software - not replying to inane posts like mine :P

Have a nice day!


-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Belanger
Sent: 18 January 2011 14:35
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


On 11-01-18 04:22 AM, Andrew Thomas wrote:
 Top posting?  Who cares?  Get a life!
 
Clearly not you, so why both even replying?  At worst case it is just
redundant information for people, best case somebody reads the email
thread at starts bottom posting.  I suggest taking a moment and
re-reading the thread.

  If you have received this communication in error we would appreciate 
 you advising us either by telephone or return of e-mail. The contents 
 of this message, and any attachments, are the property of DataVox, and

 are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. If 
 you are not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for 
 delivery of this message to the intended recipient, take note that any

 dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and its 
 attachments is strictly prohibited, and may be subject to civil or 
 criminal action for which you may be liable. Every effort has been 
 made to ensure that this e-mail or any attachments are free from 
 viruses. While the company has taken every reasonable precaution to 
 minimise this risk, neither company, nor the sender can accept 
 liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of viruses. It 
 is recommended that you should carry out your own virus checks before 
 opening any attachments.
 
 Registered in England. No. 27459085.
 
Additionally, do you really need a 17 line[1] signature?

[1] - http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/email/4.png

-- 
Paul Belanger
Digium, Inc. | Software Developer
twitter: pabelanger | IRC: pabelanger (Freenode)
Check us out at: http://digium.com  http://asterisk.org

-- _
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread Vince Vielhaber



I'm top posting this so you will see it and if you don't understand it,
look it up.


PLONK!!





On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Andrew Thomas wrote:


Why do I top post?  Simple.  I read every message in the thread - and if
there are 10 messages (for example) in that thread - then why should I
have to read them all over again on the last one?

Top posting is here - to stay!

Stop being so anal and 'retro'.  Bottom posting belongs in forums - top
post belongs in e-mail lists.

There - said it!

As for my sig/disclaimer - how about 10 copies of it before you get a
reply?  That's what bottom posting would have done for you!

Anyway Digium, Inc. | Software Developer means you should be
developing software - not replying to inane posts like mine :P

Have a nice day!


-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Belanger
Sent: 18 January 2011 14:35
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting


On 11-01-18 04:22 AM, Andrew Thomas wrote:

Top posting?  Who cares?  Get a life!


Clearly not you, so why both even replying?  At worst case it is just
redundant information for people, best case somebody reads the email
thread at starts bottom posting.  I suggest taking a moment and
re-reading the thread.


 If you have received this communication in error we would appreciate
you advising us either by telephone or return of e-mail. The contents
of this message, and any attachments, are the property of DataVox, and



are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. If
you are not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for
delivery of this message to the intended recipient, take note that any



dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and its
attachments is strictly prohibited, and may be subject to civil or
criminal action for which you may be liable. Every effort has been
made to ensure that this e-mail or any attachments are free from
viruses. While the company has taken every reasonable precaution to
minimise this risk, neither company, nor the sender can accept
liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of viruses. It
is recommended that you should carry out your own virus checks before
opening any attachments.

Registered in England. No. 27459085.


Additionally, do you really need a 17 line[1] signature?

[1] - http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/email/4.png

--
Paul Belanger
Digium, Inc. | Software Developer
twitter: pabelanger | IRC: pabelanger (Freenode)
Check us out at: http://digium.com  http://asterisk.org

-- _
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users




Vince.
--
  Michigan VHF Corp.   http://www.nobucks.net/   http://www.CDupe.com/

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread Fred Posner

On Tue, 2011-01-18 at 15:18 +, Andrew Thomas wrote:
 Why do I top post?  Simple.  I read every message in the thread - and if
 there are 10 messages (for example) in that thread - then why should I
 have to read them all over again on the last one?
 
 Top posting is here - to stay!
 
 Stop being so anal and 'retro'.  Bottom posting belongs in forums - top
 post belongs in e-mail lists.
 
 There - said it!
 
 As for my sig/disclaimer - how about 10 copies of it before you get a
 reply?  That's what bottom posting would have done for you!
 
 Anyway Digium, Inc. | Software Developer means you should be
 developing software - not replying to inane posts like mine :P
 
 Have a nice day!

You really took the douche comic to heart.

-- 
With best regards,

Fred
http://qxork.com


--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread Joel Maslak

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Andrew Thomas a...@datavox.co.uk wrote:
 Why do I top post?  Simple.  I read every message in the thread - and if
 there are 10 messages (for example) in that thread - then why should I
 have to read them all over again on the last one?

That's not the alternative (having ten messages above the reply).  See
this message for an example.  I suspect you won't have to scroll at
all or read any of the 10+ previous messages.

 Top posting is here - to stay!

It may be.  But it would be nice if people cut out the $#@! that is
irrelevant to their reply regardless, and were open to hearing what
others had to say, rather than saying, I do it this way, it's the
best.

I also agree this is a pointless discussion because, clearly, nobody
is willing to budge, and it has nothing to do with Asterisk.

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

I also agree this is a pointless discussion because, clearly, nobody is
willing to budge, and it has nothing to do with Asterisk.

Amen :)

[oh no, a bottom post]


 If you have received this communication in error we would appreciate
you advising us either by telephone or return of e-mail. The contents
of this message, and any attachments, are the property of DataVox,
and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only.
If you are not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible
for delivery of this message to the intended recipient, take note that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and
its attachments is strictly prohibited, and may be subject to civil or
criminal action for which you may be liable.
Every effort has been made to ensure that this e-mail or any attachments
are free from viruses. While the company has taken every reasonable
precaution to minimise this risk, neither company, nor the sender can
accept liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of viruses.
It is recommended that you should carry out your own virus checks
before opening any attachments. 

Registered in England. No. 27459085.



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread Danny Nicholas

-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:01 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

I also agree this is a pointless discussion because, clearly, nobody is
willing to budge, and it has nothing to do with Asterisk.

Amen :)

It may yet have a point - another few hundred (thousand) of these and the
board will blacklist items with the words top post and bottom post :)



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

I also agree this is a pointless discussion because, clearly, nobody is
willing to budge, and it has nothing to do with Asterisk.

Amen :)

It may yet have a point - another few hundred (thousand) of these and the
board will blacklist items with the words top post and bottom post :)

And maybe If you have received this communication in error...  :)



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

I'm top-posting this simply to be consistent with the previous couple posts.

I agree that top-posting is preferable for the reason that Andrew pointed
out and I prefer no trimming (other than signatures--especially legal
disclaimers, etc.) so I can delete every message except the most recent and
maintain the entire thread.

However, as pointed out a couple days ago, this list's rules specify that
we'll respond after the text being responded to, so that's what I'll be
doing.

PLONK is retro--like bottom-posting :)

--Don



On Behalf Of Vince Vielhaber
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 9:29 AM

I'm top posting this so you will see it and if you don't understand it,
look it up.


PLONK!!


On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Andrew Thomas wrote:

 Why do I top post?  Simple.  I read every message in the thread - and if
 there are 10 messages (for example) in that thread - then why should I
 have to read them all over again on the last one?

 Top posting is here - to stay!

 Stop being so anal and 'retro'.  Bottom posting belongs in forums - top
 post belongs in e-mail lists.

 There - said it!



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread Tzafrir Cohen

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 03:18:49PM -, Andrew Thomas wrote:
 Why do I top post?  Simple.  I read every message in the thread - and if
 there are 10 messages (for example) in that thread - then why should I
 have to read them all over again on the last one?

You mean: why should I have to read 10 messages worth of lines just to
figure what you're talking about?

It is interesting to note that your mailer (MS-Outlook) has very bad
support for threading. In fact, it (combined with the MS-Exchange
server) does not really bother reproducing the mail headers that are
required to keep the proper threading.

Which is why you get a big pile of messages and have to resort to
keeping everything in the message itself.

 
 Top posting is here - to stay!

Top posted content has just been cut off :-)

 not replying to inane posts like mine :P

So, you really want this thread to go on forever?

-- 
   Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755  jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406   mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com  iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

SEE THE BOTTOM :P

-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Tzafrir
Cohen
Sent: 18 January 2011 16:18
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 03:18:49PM -, Andrew Thomas wrote:
 Why do I top post?  Simple.  I read every message in the thread - and 
 if there are 10 messages (for example) in that thread - then why 
 should I have to read them all over again on the last one?

You mean: why should I have to read 10 messages worth of lines just to
figure what you're talking about?

It is interesting to note that your mailer (MS-Outlook) has very bad
support for threading. In fact, it (combined with the MS-Exchange
server) does not really bother reproducing the mail headers that are
required to keep the proper threading.

Which is why you get a big pile of messages and have to resort to
keeping everything in the message itself.

 Top posting is here - to stay!

Top posted content has just been cut off :-)

 not replying to inane posts like mine :P

So, you really want this thread to go on forever?

-- 
   Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755  jabber:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406   mailto:tzafrir.co...@xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com  iax:gu...@local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

-- _
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

You mean: why should I have to read 10 messages worth of lines just to
figure what you're talking about?

Nope!  I mean: why should I have to read the SAME 10 messages worth of
lines over and over...

It is interesting to note that your mailer (MS-Outlook) has very bad
support for threading. In fact, it (combined with the MS-Exchange
server) does not really bother reproducing the mail headers that are
required to keep the proper threading.

Oh dear God! You mean I'm using a Micro$oft product(s)?  I'll go shoot
myself now!  Well, after I've shot every other M$ user!

Top posted content has just been cut off :-)

I chuckled :-)

So, you really want this thread to go on forever?

Yeah!  I'm having bit of a slow CBA day at work...

Watch out - here comes that damned disclaimer again:

 If you have received this communication in error we would appreciate
you advising us either by telephone or return of e-mail. The contents
of this message, and any attachments, are the property of DataVox,
and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only.
If you are not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible
for delivery of this message to the intended recipient, take note that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and
its attachments is strictly prohibited, and may be subject to civil or
criminal action for which you may be liable.
Every effort has been made to ensure that this e-mail or any attachments
are free from viruses. While the company has taken every reasonable
precaution to minimise this risk, neither company, nor the sender can
accept liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of viruses.
It is recommended that you should carry out your own virus checks
before opening any attachments. 

Registered in England. No. 27459085.

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread A J Stiles

On Tuesday 18 Jan 2011, Don Kelly wrote:
 PLONK is retro--like bottom-posting :)

 --Don

Retro?  For those of us who actually know what PLONK means, it's hilarious.  
The fact that some people *don't* know what it means only makes it doubly so.

Now, here is a link that those of us who remember a time before there was such 
a thing as http, never mind youtube, will understand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1JXYgwwDeY

Justification: Everybody needs a break from all the telephonical stuff every 
once in a while :-)

And now, seriously:

Posting answers *before* the question to which they refer breaks the flow of 
conversation  (point -- counterpoint -- point -- counterpoint, and so forth),  
making it hard to read; and is also downright rude to anybody reading the 
archives  (which is the first thing any clueful person does when they have a 
question; chances are, you are not the first person to have asked this, and 
if an acceptable answer is already recorded then you need never even post).

And a mail client that makes it easy to top-post, no matter how popular it 
might have become thanks to a combination of rampant piracy and illegal acts 
of a convicted monopoly, is still a *badly-designed* mail client.

-- 
AJS

Answers come *after* questions.  It's really not hard.

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread markus_weiler



  
  
Now this thread is really starting to annoy me


  

  


  
 Dieses Video enthlt Content von WMG. Es ist in
  deinem Land nicht verfgbar.
  
  ..for non english speakers, for US eyes only...
  
  Markus

  

  

  


PS: to make everybody happy i posted Top and Bottom :-)


Am 18.01.2011 19:48, schrieb A J Stiles:

  On Tuesday 18 Jan 2011, Don Kelly wrote:

  
"PLONK" is "retro"--like bottom-posting :)

--Don

  
  
Retro?  For those of us who actually know what PLONK means, it's hilarious.  
The fact that some people *don't* know what it means only makes it doubly so.

Now, here is a link that those of us who remember a time before there was such 
a thing as http, never mind youtube, will understand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1JXYgwwDeY

Justification: Everybody needs a break from all the telephonical stuff every 
once in a while :-)

And now, seriously:

Posting answers *before* the question to which they refer breaks the flow of 
conversation  (point -- counterpoint -- point -- counterpoint, and so forth),  
making it hard to read; and is also downright rude to anybody reading the 
archives  (which is the first thing any clueful person does when they have a 
question; chances are, you are not the first person to have asked this, and 
if an acceptable answer is already recorded then you need never even post).

And a mail client that makes it easy to top-post, no matter how popular it 
might have become thanks to a combination of rampant piracy and illegal acts 
of a convicted monopoly, is still a *badly-designed* mail client.



Now this thread is really starting to annoy me


  

  


  
 Dieses Video enthlt Content von WMG. Es ist in
  deinem Land nicht verfgbar.
  
  ..for non english speakers, for US eyes only...
  
  Markus

  

  

  


  

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

  On Tuesday 18 Jan 2011, Don Kelly wrote:
  PLONK is retro--like bottom-posting :)
 
  --Don

  boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of A J Stiles

  Retro?  For those of us who actually know what PLONK means, it's
hilarious.  

  Now, here is a link 

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1JXYgwwDeY

  Posting answers *before* the question to which they refer breaks the flow
of 
  conversation  

It's clear from your response that you have not followed this entire
thread--depending solely on the snippets in the message to which you
responded. Thanks for illustrating one of my points.

I've been working with computers for over 40 years and don't have the
foggiest notion how the Green Day--Wake Me Up When September Ends video
applies to Top Posting.

  --Don



--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread Tom Rymes


On 01/18/2011 10:18 AM, Andrew Thomas wrote:

Why do I top post?  Simple.  I read every message in the thread - and if
there are 10 messages (for example) in that thread - then why should I
have to read them all over again on the last one?


OK, this is a stupid thread, nobody is going to be convinced by anything 
I say, and by replying it, I am just feeding the trolls and prolonging 
everyone's agony.


But I can't resist.  This is the fifth or sixth post that makes this 
improper assumption.


Nobody, I mean NOT A SINGLE PERSON, is advocating bottom posting without 
trimming. The argument is between:


1.) Top Posting - No Trimming
2.) Bottom or interleaved posting WITH TRIMMING.

In fact, I'd rather you top post and trim than bottom post and not. 
That's one thing we can all agree on.


Tom
[going back to biting my lip]

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
  http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting

2011-01-18 Thread MrHanMan


 I've been working with computers for over 40 years and don't have the
 foggiest notion how the Green Day--Wake Me Up When September Ends video
 applies to Top Posting.


It's a reference to the Everlasting September in 1993.  AOL added
usenet access to its service, unleashing a horde of dirty, no-good
n00bs onto the interwebs.  And alas, there was much consternation and
gnashing of teeth over the new user's lack of netiquette.

--
_
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
   http://www.asterisk.org/hello

asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [asterisk-users] Top Posting