Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Ok great, thanks all. Some responses:1. We've fixed the say bug internally. I posted about the fix on the mailing list, but that will go live in the first patch.2. Slowness for loading projects. Ok, sounds great. I'll add in those status messages then. I'll experiment around with it and see what "feels" right for it. Thanks for the feedback! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487817/#p487817 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
2019-12-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! the only problem i have is when i am loading a project. that is the only time that the IDE is slow... but else, it looks good URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487726/#p487726 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Stefik, Could you also add in the bug tracker something about fixing the say command? It is only somewhat reliable. An example of when it is not reliable would be something like this:integer counter=0repeat 10 timescounter=counter+1say counterendI hope that gives an adequate demonstration. Let me know if you have anymore questions. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487392/#p487392 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @36 1. Could you give us more information on slowness? I'm happy to toss it in a profiler and take a gander at whatever you are experiencing. Notably, if you can tell us which component is being slow and what keys you are pressing when that happens, it helps a lot. NVDA sends back hundreds of messages on each keypress, so knowing that level of detail could help track down what you are experiencing.2. For loading a project, this one is in the bug tracker already and I've figured out a fix, but haven't posted it in a patch yet. If I recall correctly, there's a few other feature requests related to status reports in NVDA (e.g., compiles finished, errors reported) and I figure somebody on the team will do them all at once after the holidays. You're right though, I think if Quorum Studio is more explicit about telling you when that's finished, it would be better. If there are other messages you want the environment to send you as you are programming, feel free to request them. They are relatively easy to add in Quorum's accessibility libraries. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487314/#p487314 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @36, you could report that as a bug to the developer on the Quorum Programming Language web site. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/487175/#p487175 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
2019-12-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Hi there. i don't think the app is that accessible.It is a great app, but the thing is that i don't get any feed back when loading a project or when i want to create a new project. it messes around with NVDA. else, i think that this is a rather good program.It is just a little clunkey with nvda for some or other reason. it works a little slow with nvda and I don't have a low end computer, so that can not be the issue. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486977/#p486977 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! No problem. I think you could probably do it in most LL(k) grammars, off the top of my head, but adaptive LL * creates a parse forest, very efficiently. It's a neat little algorithm. That's the standard in Antlr nowadays and to my knowledge is the fastest of the current parse forest algorithms. It gives us a lot of flexibility at the parsing level and we definitely take advantage of it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486918/#p486918 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @33, thanks for the information. I didn't think a CFG could handle ambiguous operators. Good to know! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486898/#p486898 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Ethin,A few quick things:1. Modern context free grammar notations can definitely handle using = for both positions. This is easy in modern algorithms like Adaptive LL* and doesn't require anything special. If you want to confirm, I can send you the grammar. It's open source and all. It's pretty easy.2. I know it's counter intuitive that it's easier to understand/use = with both, but the studies are pretty clear on this point. Number #25 on this page gives methodological details if you want: http://web.cs.unlv.edu/stefika/publications.html. I didn't believe it either until the studies came back. In fact, earlier versions of Quorum used a variety of alternative syntax choices until we based them on data. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486897/#p486897 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! I love this discussion that's going on! Andreas, welcome to the forum. I'm glad you've chimed in on this topic, and I hope you may try some audio games for a sort of research perspective, in order to help with audio game development in Quorum. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486650/#p486650 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
@30, I agree with some of your points, however:(1) I am confused on how the syntax of a for loop is error prone or hard to learn. If a programmer writes:for (int i = 0; i < 32; ++i) {
// ...
}Then they'll get the expected result: the variable i will be declared as type int and will be incremented 32 times. I believe the "error prone"-ness you speak of is the issue of what operator to use (i.e. < vs. <=). The difference is, of course, in the way operators work.The programming language Rust has a similar for loop syntax to that of Python, though it can differ. For example, ranges are expressed using .. for < and ..= for <=. I actually made this mistake over 30 times unknowingly when writing my operating system kernel because I had forgotten the ..= operator. So, when I wanted to read bits 8-15, I was using 8..15, and not 8..=15, which caused my code to read bits 8-14. So I can see how it can be error prone at first, however once you've realized the differences it becomes much easier to analyze your code and determine which operator to use.Second, the error proneness between = and ==. As a prof, I am quite positive you know that in mathematics, == is used to refer to a value being equivalent to another. This, I think, is where == stems from. If I write:if (i == 1)Then I am saying, mathematically:If i is equivalent to 1This also, I think, makes syntax grammars much easier to write. If you use == and not = as your "is equal to" operator, you can probably get away with a context-free grammar (cFG). However, if you use = for both assignment and equality, you then need to refer to context, which can complicate the grammar. Don't quote me on that one, though. Generally I prefer == to = for equality since it just makes more sense to me. A similar concept would be using | and & for equality on an "condition or condition"/"condition and condition" issue versus || and && for or and and. If you use ||, you now don't know whether someone was wanting you to bitwise or too values or perform a conditional or, and the same goes for & versus &&: howcan you tell the difference between a bitwise and and a conditional and? (Side note: I know how confusing this paragraph sounds.)I hope that I didn't get anything wrong in this post -- I'm definitely not an expert on grammar theory or compiler design.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486634/#p486634
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Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
@30, I agree with some of your points, however:(1) I am confused on how the syntax of a for loop is error prone or hard ot learn. If a programmer writes:for (int i = 0; i < 32; ++i) {
// ...
}Then they'll get the expected result: the variable i will be declared as type int and will be incremented 32 times. I believe the "error prone"-ness you speak of is the issue of what operator to use (i.e. < vs. <=). The difference is, of course, in the way operators work.The programming language Rust has a similar for loop syntax to that of Python, though it can differ. For example, ranges are expressed using .. for < and ..= for <=. I actually made this mistake over 30 times unknowingly when writing my operating system kernel because I had forgotten the ..= operator. So, when I wanted to read bits 8-15, I was using 8..15, and not 8..=15, which caused my code to read bits 8-14. So I can see how it canbe error prone at first, however once you've realized the differences it becomes much easier to analyze your code and determine which operator to use.Second, the error proneness between = and ==. As a prof, I am quite positive you know that in mathematics, == is used to refer to a value being equivalent to another. This, I think, is where == stems from. If I write:if (i == 1)Then I am saying, mathematically:If i is equivalent to 1This also, I think, makes syntax grammars much easier to write. If you use == and not = as your "is equal to" operator, you can probably get away with a context-free grammar (cFG). However, if you use = for both assignment and equality, you then need to refer to context, which can complicate the grammar. Don't quote me on that one, though. Generally I prefer == to = for equality since it just makes more sense to me. A similar concept would be using | and & for equality on an "condition or condition"/"condition and condition" issue versus || and && for or and and. If you use ||, you now don't know whether someone was wanting you to bitwise or too values or perform a conditional or, and the same goes for & versus &&: howcan you tell the difference between a bitwise and and a conditional and? (Side note: I know how confusing this paragraph sounds.)I hope that I didn't get anything wrong in this post -- I'm definitely not an expert on grammar theory or compiler design.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486634/#p486634
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Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Ethin,First, you aren't the only one with the opinion on traditional for/while. There's a few facts to be aware of with it:1. Studies on blocks and syntax in text based languages show basically a tripling effect with novice performance. Basically, students can write correct programs faster, along with other properties (e.g., understanding it better). I'm simplifying from the results, which are a little complicated to understand, but that's the idea. Seems to be the same result regardless of language.2. It's actually pretty normal to believe the other is superior. In fact, it's such a commonplace belief that one of the studies we did years ago studied people's perceptions of it. Notably, turns out that for every year of experience people claim to have (self-reported), they garner a large and statistically significant increase in how much they perceive that syntax to be intuitive. AKA --- there's a standard equation for a bias effect.So basically, people that learned such syntax tend to think it's fine, but careful measurements of human behavior show that it should not be immune to criticism because it has undesirable properties like being hard to learn and error prone (e.g., Neil Brown's data). We actually see this all the time in studies. We did a recent study on database programming and, similarly, devs often believe they are doing well, or not, but performance doesn't necessarily match their beliefs. That's why we use data on Quorum. We don't want to just "choose" the syntax, we want something external to our beliefs and value systems we can use as checks and balances during the design process.Second, Adoption:Short answer is I don't know why people adopt/don't quorum. It's clearly being adopted, but I have no evidence on the reasons. We do follow evidence from Meyerovich and Rabkin on adoption rates, which are related to what we choose to add on to the standard library in Quorum. That probably has an impact, but how much is unclear. Schools probably have their own reasons, but again I don't track these things. I'm just an open source dev and prof that cares about these things and tries to make quorum better. Schools do seem to like it, which is great, but who knows.Natural Language:You're totally right on natural language. In fact, the evidence is often tricky. Language that is natural in English often does poorly in studies. The word repeat does well, which may sound natural depending on what you mean, but individual token choices are based on statistical analysis because it's just not intuitive what works and what doesn't without it. For example, Quorum has no left bracket, but does have a right and the paren's are missing. Or, the comparison operator in ifs is the =, which is 8x less likely to have errors compared to =, even in the presence of assignment operators. Pretty weird how the data comes out, or at least it was before the data came out. In any case, what natural even means is not clear, but you're right that just assuming English, like if then, is the answer is definitely not supported by the evidence. Anyway, hope that helps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486606/#p486606 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! I may be the only one with this opinion, but I honestly prefer the non-medical practice of just using for and while. For makes sense in languages lke Lua, which is trivially translatable to other languages that use that keyword. While is also a no brainer -- its precisely the same way you'd write it in mathematics, while x <= 3. There's do while, too, but generally all of hese loops are perfectly sensible and I'm quite confused on how it confuses others. The statement (in Python) for i in x literally means "for i in x". Translated to English it roughly translates to "for every element i in x". Is it a mathematical construct and a different way of writing? Sure, but it does make sense if you think about it.There was a long debate between OS developers about this very topic (natural language programming and artificial intelligence) that I participated in over here: https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=11=35020. The goal of programming languages is, to me, not to be as natural in the sense that you type/write it naturally, but to be natural in the sense of you can write it fluently and easily. Programming using natural language would be downright cruel; it would make things ridiculously complicated. But I digress.I'm honestly quite curious: what makes Quorum so much better than other languages? I know several languages (like Lua and BASIC) that use statements like repeat, and other more natural-feeling language patterns. So what makes it unique -- so unique that blind institutions are willing to adopt it, as you claim? Sure, its got a level editor but anyon can make a level editor (re: tiled) in any language they please. Its got a power DSP, but I know of some very powerful DSP and sound systems (FMOD, OpenAL, WWISE, ...). What I'm trying to get at is, what makes Quorum better than Python? Or, rather, what makes Quorum so unique that people are willing to adopt it over Python, Go, BASIC, or any of the other natural-feeling languages out there?Finally, what *has* been made in Quorum thus far? I ask because I usually determine a languages value based on what has been made in it. For example, there are some (very) powerful machine learning and AI libraries in Python. That's a very valuable prop to Python because ML and AI are the future. What is out there to prove that Quorum isn't an educational tool?I'm not attempting to destroy Quorum or victimize it. I am just curious about why schools are so hasty to adopt it when such a thing has already been done (re: Pascal, BASIC). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486585/#p486585 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Hey everyone,This is Andreas Stefik. My wife and I invented Quorum about 10 years ago and Brandon asked me to come post in here. I have to say that I'm really enjoying the conversation, even the parts where people have suggestions for improvement, as listening and thinking things through like everyone is doing is exactly how things get better over time. I've read everyone's posts and have tried to condense things down.1. Claim: Quorum is small and is not used much.This was true 10 years ago. We started with maybe 5 or so children using it as a test and never intended for it to be adopted anywhere, schools for the blind or not. It was just an experiment and I was messing around after graduate school However, and to be honest I'm still shocked by this, Quorum's adoption has grown exponentially, with now ballpark 15k users online every month. Many schools use it in the blind community, true, and while nothing is perfect we work damn hard to make things accessible, but a very substantial number of schools use it outside the blind community as well. People use it in other countries and a number of conferences are held using it every year. The honest truth is that I don't organize any of this myself. It just happened organically. I just enjoy building and hacking on the language. I also enjoy conducted research experiments trying to refute pieces of the language so I can improve it over time.2. Claim: Quorum has limited audio capabilities and lacks 3DQuorum has had 3D audio support for a long-time and today even has a full digital signal processing engine where you can adjust the sound to your heart's content in multiple channels. There is a 10-tutorial sequence on how to use much of this functionality here:https://quorumlanguage.com/tutorials/ds … intro.htmlNothing is perfect and feature requests are welcome, but it is quite powerful even today.3. Claim: The old IDE, Sodbeans, was clunky.The old IDE, Sodbeans, was insanely clunky and all of us hated it. The problems people mention in this thread are 100% true and frustrated us for years. The problem was, fixing it and getting an IDE created that met the accessibility guidelines we wanted took us several years and a lot of cash from the National Science Foundation. Because of that work, Quorum now has a user interface library that calls down to low-level accessibility APIs on the system. The reason for that is because, if instead of using a normal UI toolkit, you use Quorums, this allows us to sync a hardware accelerated graphics library to sound.Now, think about that for a second. This technology allows you to make some pretty seriously neat things from an audio games perspective, or just in general. For example, you can create "items" in a game, attach sounds to them, and move them around. You can apply physics or other properties to them and the games will respond automatically. Further, in interviews with blind students in the classroom, one of the most common requests we heard years ago was that students wanted to make games that had audio components, but that students consistently asked us not to make them audio only, so that students with sighted friends, or who had partial sight, could also participate. The purpose is that Quorum Studio is getting a 3D level editor, fully accessible, and we're starting pilot testing of that next semester. The idea is to see if we can't make something as visually compelling and complex as Unity3D accessible and I think we're going to be able to do it with this architecture. We'd love to have people from this community participate in the testing process and provide constructive criticism.4. The new IDE is Quorum StudioListening to this thread, it sounds like people want a better way to find syntax errors. You got it. I've looked up the UIA properties and will try to figure this out for a patch. I was actually hoping to have this in before the 1.0 release, but couldn't squeeze it into the dev schedule. The current thinking is to use a UIA spelling error property for syntax errors and grammar error for editor hints, but we will have to evaluate that in user testing I think.For Mac support, we would really love to get NSAccessible Support in there for voice over. Problem is though, it's damned expensive to do it. We looked into the dev time to do it and we just don't have the resources. We would love to have Quorum Studio have screen reader support everywhere, but short and skinny we don't have the cash to hire enough developers without cutting crucial features we told the National Science Foundation we would do.5. Quorum's syntax choicesOne of the weird things about Quorum is that people often don't realize that the dev team only sort of makes decisions about syntax here. In fact, what we do is run randomized controlled trials, with human users, comparing syntactic alternatives in studies on human productivity. It's a complex topic and I personally en
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @25, go fmt and cargo fmt are tools for formatting Go and Rust code respectively. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486419/#p486419 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Indents can actually be helpful for the blind if you have NVDA's indent beeps on. I"m so used to it now that it's become an organizational tool for everything across the board, not just code formatting.There was also this editor called Ride that supported expanding and collapsing indented code. Excellent concept as it kind of mimics what sighted people can naturally do, but it's written in BGT so it has its limitations. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486415/#p486415 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! What is Go fmt or Cargo fmt? Are they indenters that can help? What would be a good helper for Python's indentation if I was to take a stab at learning it again? I have noticed the tabbing for 4 spaces each doesn't always stick in NotePad++, though maybe there's a new version I haven't seen yet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486355/#p486355 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @23, most compilers/interpretrs do not insist on its use. This is because of the way the interpreter works during a process called lexing. I won't dive into too much detail, but suffice it to say that the compiler is programmed to ignore whitespace characters (newlines, tabs, spaces, ...). The reason indentation is good practice is because it helps sited programmers read your code. When your working on a team with other developers who may not be blind, it will be much easier for them to read your code if you indent it. Its useless to blind people, but a good practice nonetheless.Typically, I don't indent my code myself -- I let automatic code formatters do that for me. When I program in Rust or Go, for example, I just run go fmt or cargo fmt, respectively, and my code is formatted precisely and cleanly everywhere. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486350/#p486350 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @EthinWhy *should* new programmers learn indentation in your opinion? I would consider myself a novice programmer, and haven't grasped the concept of indentation very well (maybe that's because the last real programming I did was an introductory course of Python 2 in high school). But why is indentation a "must" instead of just a recommendation to learn?I'm honestly curious. Quorum has an indentation system of its own, but the compiler does not insist upon its use. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486335/#p486335 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @21, I don't like how blind schools are pushing it. Python is just as accessible as quorum; the only difference is that it *forces* indentation, something taht people who are learning to code *should* do anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486288/#p486288 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! The issue is that the devs are pushing this language to be used in schools, but also say that it can be used to develop audio games and such. Also, the reason why pictures and such are in the Quorum tutorials is because again, it's designed with the classroom in mind. Don't have sighted assistance to implement this graphic the right way? Get help from a classmate that has some vision or your instructor. 95 percent of Quorum is used in blind schools nowadays, and teachers love it because it's an *accessible* programming language, and the syntax is easy, but these kids learning this language have never played a single audio game in their lives, and if they have it's probably only Jim Kitchen's games.Quorum is capable of making some pretty good audio games, however since no one on the Quorum team who writes up the documentation probably has never played one, they can't create an example of it. The auditory racing game example is a teaching example at best. A lot of things have to be done from scratch, E.G. menus and such. That's great, but I don't have any examples to reference with this. Also, the reference has a ton of stuff in it not meant for the end user. The underlying accessibility libraries and other such stuff that aren't designed for the end user needs to be put in its own section. What I mean is, there's functions/actions in the Quorum reference that the internal functions that one would use as an end user, read/write from. Most of these take up a majority of the content we're looking for that has written code examples. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486286/#p486286 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @17, I'm not trying to stop people from using this language, just pointing out the problems I've had with it and that I see no practical benefit to using it over anything else. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486279/#p486279 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! I tried this language a long, long time ago. Didn't get far beyond a simple app which played laggy notes with a bad-sounding piano. I wasn't really impressed with it. Even if I was to rewrite the app in Python (I remember my horrible and awful code structure up to this day) I'll guarantee you that it would run much much better than it did 2 or so years ago.I also got through the tutorials, and a lot of them focus on pictures which is great... for other people. Even a simple platformer demonstrated with the language requires some adaptation before you can actually play it.I also couldn't really find any help for the language beyond of what the reference showed with it's confusing examples, so that is why I'll give this a hard pass. If you want to use this, just know that it will be up to you to figure out any strange errors the IDE throws, as googling didn't really get me anything useful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486211/#p486211 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
2019-12-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : claudiogaranzini via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Hi Superb! I'll try your suggestion when I'll be back home, tonight! I'm using Nvda as my screen reader! An other question: how to know what libraries i can use? I mean: when using the Use and Ctrl+Space, I can choose Libraries but then, after inserting a dot, i have some of the categories but not all of them; for example, I can't see the sound libraries or the music one. is there a way for choosing among all the libraries? Thanks and sorry for my English!Bye for now!Claudio URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486191/#p486191 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! As long as I agree with you Ethin there's one thing which you always tend to forget and I am telling you this for the second time now.Allow people to make mistakes, or go with their own way. One can LOVE quorum and develop amazing things with it, and another person can hate C++ and not go far beyond the Hello World. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486173/#p486173 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
2019-12-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! nah. i don't understand the sintax... it confuzes me a lot. and it is not working 100 percent with NVDA... so i think i will give this one a pass URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486154/#p486154 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @14, what's worse is that no one even knows of Quorum. Its one of those nitch languages that just osn't exist for 99 percent of the world; for the rest it does. But 've never heard of anything developed in it and could never get anything even going with it. I'd have much better luck in C++ (where I've made headway many times before) than in Quorum. Its nice and all for educational purposes but beyond that? Na, no thanks. What's ironic is that Pascal was made as an educational language and yet there are practical, well-known tools like Cheat Engine written in it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486099/#p486099 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! You know, I never could get into Quorum either, and the nearby school for the blind is really shoving it at everyone. It's annoying because the language boasts that it is designed with accessibility in mind yet I never could actually manage to do anything with it. I tried it at a summer camp and it was just not practical in any way. Spent a whole week writing a program only to run it in the IDE and have everything happen in some weird dialog at the bottom of the screen, which I could not use NVDA to access. I had a bit better luck on the website, but still. I'd learn python any day over this, because of the reasons stated in post 8, and the fact that I'm having to put up with some non-developing-related issues that are keeping me from learning it. It's great for teaching, because there really isn't a ton of sintax you have to remember. But I don't know... for someone who has the basics down, I just don't think it could be used for anything really. How likely will it be that I'll use quorum on the job? Use the skills I learned, sure. But not the language itself. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486056/#p486056 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
consider doing this: (Note when I use non-capital and capital letters here)use Libraries.Sound.SpeechSpeech speechspeech:Say("Hello world.")That's an option. Also, what screen-reader are you using?
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486019/#p486019
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Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
2019-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : claudiogaranzini via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Hi Superb! The code is really simple; it's just a test:I would like my computer saying Hello world!So, in a new project I'll write: I write:say "hello world"But it seems not working. I could also output it and in that case the output command works as expetedThanks for your help! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486002/#p486002 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! will that get accessible vor mac? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485923/#p485923 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! is or will there be a mac version URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485923/#p485923 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @Claudio Could you put a code example so I could have something to help you? Thanks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485916/#p485916 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
2019-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : claudiogaranzini via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Hi guys! So, how to solve the problem of making the computer say something? I use the "Use" command but it doesn't want to speak! If I use the online version of quorum, everything works perfectly! Coud someone, please, help me?Thanks a lot!Claudio URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485892/#p485892 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @4, there is nothing wrong with innovating and having audio games with gamepad/joystick support; after all, every video game out there has tha support nowadays. I could never get into quorum; it feels like a language designed to teach and not to be used in a practical setting. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485758/#p485758 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
2019-12-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : claudiogaranzini via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Hi guys! Trying quorum and, for me, being a total newbie, it could be a great thing< but I-m not able to make my computer speak with Quorum> they say to use the say command followed by the variable or the text in quotes but... The projects run without problems but the computer doesn-t speak. I don-t know how to solve this little problem! Could you help me, please_ Thaks a lot Claudio! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485679/#p485679 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Hey guys. @OrinYeah that was my post. I think I might send a feedback request to the Quorum team about errors like that one should be simplified to more conversational language like the others. Every programming language has its quirks, and Quorum is no exception. I convinced the creator of the language to make an account for this forum, so he should be replying soon. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485668/#p485668 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! @Ethin, as of this week it has a brand new IDE called Quorum Studio which is a hell of a lot better than that Netbeans hack they had.Gamepad support: not sure about that one.Screen reader support: This is the one con I have about it. No, it only supports Windows screen readers but has versions for Mac and Linux. You can get around it by making calls to the system voice on other platforms, but who wants to do all that work when Windows has native support?Also @post1, what you said about errors are mostly true. Someone posted an error to the Quorum list yesterday. I looked at the code and the associated error and had no idea what it was talking about. It wasn't looking for any of those parameters, just that a capital letter was missing from a use statement.I do like the IDE, I just wish that, even though the key commands etc are identical to old Sodbeans, I wish that they had came out with some documentation for it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485655/#p485655 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! when was the last time we saw an actual audiogame with gamepad support other than a little beta test thing? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485616/#p485616 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! I never liked this language. The IDE was far too clunky and weird, and the language just doesn't provide enough support to make an actual high-quality audio game out of. For example, does it provide 3D sound support? What audio formats does it support? Does it actually integrate with screen readers on all platforms it supports? Does it support gamepads/controllers? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485590/#p485590 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Re: Introducing Quorum Programming Language! You say this like it's new. It's not, at all. I was actually going to bring this up but I forgot about it. Good to know someone else is looking at this kind of stuff too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485589/#p485589 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Introducing Quorum Programming Language!
Introducing Quorum Programming Language! Hello everyone. I am here to introduce to you the first evidence-based programming language known as Quorum to this community. What is Quorum?Quorum is a programming language that is based in Java, and compiles through Java bytacode. Unlike mainstream programming languages like Python, C++, and others, this language's IDE (Integrated Developing Environment) produces errors that users can understand without having extensive programming knowledge. This language is designed for both the beginner and the advanced programmer, and you can create games, applications with 2D and 3D animation and audio, some basic music programming with a MIDI synthesizer, and many other types of programs. If you want to find out more about Quorum, and what it can do, please feel free to visit this website.You must create an account on the Quorum Language web site if you wish to download the IDE to program. The process is pretty easy and straightforward though. I hope this language may appeal to new developers! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485535/#p485535 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
