Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience But they can't with screen curtain on. Even with the screen on, most people have no idea about voiceover gestures. This is of course a very dangerous assumption, since it's easy to research this, and it is definitely not the only thing you should rely on for security, but screen curtain should certainly do the job especially now that the gestures can very easily be remapped. Of course, all of this wont apply if the person has prior VO knowledge and can just hold the button and tell Siri turn Voiceover off, but VO is not supposed to be your device protector and these are just some measures you can take to protect your phone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489611/#p489611 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience People can read computers with brightness set to zero, so its a logical assumption that it can be done with phones. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489603/#p489603 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience Yeah, it's true that DFU mode won't help you in that scenario. My sister's ex left an old phone of his here when they moved out. Thinking I scored myself a backup device if nothing else, I turned Voiceover on, only to discover that it was still linked to his Icloud account. I did try to enter DFU mode at that point, but it would not let me proceed without the password. I think that's a good thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489597/#p489597 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience As far as I understand it, even if you put the phone in recovery mode and connect it to iTunes, you still need to enter your Apple ID password and whatnot to proceed. There should be no way to wipe it without these credentials as far as I know. As for being able to see the screen even with brightness turned to 0, that's a good point, though. Didn't know that until now either.Lukas URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489554/#p489554 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience I recall having a discussion, either on this forum or on a Skype group, somewhat recently where several people said that sighted people can see the screen just fine if brightness is set to 0%. I had been under the mistaken belief up until that point that it was a deterrent, but apparently it isn't. Hopefully, if that discussion was on this forum, someone will remember and chime in. I know someone who keeps screen curtain on and speech off whenever they are not using their phone, and, while I think that's a bit excessive, if I went out more often by myself, I'd consider doing that too. As for it being just as easy for someone to unlock your phone with your fingerprint while you're sleeping, I completely disagree. Perhaps if you're a heavy sleeper, that would work, but that crap would never work on me. I've always been a light sleeper, and I know for sure that I'd feel it if someone did that. With face ID, though, there would be no warning. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489536/#p489536 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience I assume, the thief can just use your phone to enter DFU mode to whipe the phone completely. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489472/#p489472 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience Exactly, posts 18 and 19 nailed it. I also think blind people are exagerating this possibility way too much. The thief would still have to know how to turn VO off and turn brightness back to a visible level, essentially doing this all blindfolded as there is nothing visible on the screen for them at the time. If you don't use screen curtain or don't have the brightness set all the way down to 0 and fear this possibility, then that's pretty much your own problem. If you have enough vision left to use the screen, so that you actually need to have the brightness turned up, perhaps with magnification also enabled, then you probably have enough vision to also keep the attention awareness feature of face ID turned on, which means that even if someone pointed your stolen phone at your face, it would not unlock if you closed your eyes at the moment. And even if you know someone just stole your phone from you, then there is nothing easier than to turn away and cover your face. Instead of trying to force you with brute force to reveal your face and look directly into the camera, they'd probably just run straight off with the stolen phone anyway. As long as you use the passcode besides just face ID, have your Apple ID and iCloud protected with secure enough passwords, have Find my iPhone turned on, and have your SIM protected with a PIN, you're as secure as anyone else in case your phone is ever stolen. In such a scenario, even if they managed to actually unlock the phone or tried to restart it afterwards, they wouldn't be able to do much harm anyway. At least, they wouldn't be able to purchase new content or to wipe the phone completely without reauthenticating, which is what I would personally be bothered about the most if someone ever stole my iPhone. My top priority would be to get to another online device to block the phone through iCloud as soon as possible. Only then, I'd start worrying about the theft itself. And this is the case with any iPhone, no matter whether it's using face ID, touch ID or perhaps both in the future as rumored by some Apple leakers.I upgraded from a 7 Plus (which is essentially the same as the 6 Plus hardwarewise) to the XS Max, and I agree with everything the previous posters have already said. Basically, face ID and the lack of a home button, even a virtual one, are probably going to be the greatest changes you are going to notice. Softwarewise, a lot has changed since the 6 Plus or 7 Plus have first been released, but you could update to the latest iOS even with these old phones anyway, and despite some settings having been moved elsewhere in the menus or some new annoying bugs which hadn't been present in previous iterations of iOS, the founding principles and the behavior of VO are still mostly the same. By the way, I think the latest iOS is not as infested with show stopping bugs as some posters at Applevis might perhaps make you seem believe, at least not in my own experience.3D touch was in deed a hardware thing, first introduced with the 6S, I believe. In the latest versions of iOS, they have disabled it for all phones anyway, and they did some more work to slightly improve the possibilities of haptic touch, i.e. essentially long press and hold, which is what has always been there even for these older models.Lukas URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489463/#p489463 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience Yeah, ironically blind people have way more security features, accidental of course, but they do exist as you said. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489460/#p489460 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience I personally think that's a ridiculous argument. If you're sighted, the phone will check to see that you're actually looking into it before unlocking. If your eyes work well enough to focus on things, the attention features will work for you just as well. Now, I'm completely blind and I can't use the attention features, but that also means that I usually have both VO and Screen Curtain on, not to mention, my speech rate is far faster than most people who might point my phone at my face can understand. I don't know about you all, but the number of sighted people I know that know how to both use VO and can understand it at quick speech rates is maybe 1 person. Not to mention, even if you do teach people about the accessibility shortcut, if you add another item to it, such as the magnifier then triple pressing the lock button won't turn VO off, and even if it did, you could force brightness to always be at 0. If you're worried about somebody knowing the screen curtain gesture, change it. and finally, if you know somebody's about to point your phone at your face, yawn, or stick out your tongue, or scruNch your face up, or cover part of your face with your hand. It's really not that complicated. If you're asleep or something then you're just as screwed with touch ID since somebody can just touch your finger to the home button and boom, your old iPhone has just been unlocked. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489431/#p489431 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience @15, yes, which is why I hope to God I never have to buy a phone that uses face ID. While you could just enter a passcode and bypass the process entirely, nobody wants to do that, and besides, purchasing a device with such a gaping security flaw as that is accepting and supporting its existence, which I don't want to do. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489169/#p489169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience Well I jumped from the 6 to the xs max, which was a stretch, but there are a few things to get used too. Face ID and no home button are mostly the things that will probably confuse you at first. After using the phone for a while you get the hang of it real quick.Somebody sneakily pointing the phone at you to unlock it is a real possibility, though luckily I haven't had that happen myself. I don't think apple considered that, but you will just have to be careful of what you do with the phone.Other than what others have mentioned, I can't think of anything else at you will need to know, but if you have any questions that come up, just ask. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489125/#p489125 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience Can’t someone take your phone and point it at your face to unlock it? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/489015/#p489015 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience I don't have an iPhone 11, but I have the XS max which is basically the same thing. The two things you will likely have trouble with at first are Face ID and the missing home button. Where the iPhone 7 and 8 had the virtual home button, anything newer did away with that entirely. Getting used to the new method which just involves swiping up or down depending on whether you want to head to the home screen, app switcher, etc is really easy. it only took me about a day to figure it out.Likewise, Face ID is extremely easy to use. voice over walks you through the setup process and for me, it only take a few hours of use before unlocking my phone becomes instinctive. I've known people that take a bit longer to get used to it, but everybody does in the end. I prefer it in a lot of situations because you can unlock your phone while your hands and/or the phone are wet. The main drawback is of course that you can't unlock your phone while it's in your pocket without entering the passcode. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488816/#p488816 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience thanks for the info about speakers, that will be good to know. whilst I always use earbuds for gaming or most things, often if i'm taking phone calls my earbuds arent' plugged in, which means I get my ears blasted. As to cameras, whilst that is a valid point about better cameras working better with some aps, at the same time didn't justify the couple of hundred quid extra the Iphone x would've cost as compared to the 8 when I bought it Christmas of 17. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488613/#p488613 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience What can I expect if I'm upgrading from a 6+ to an 11?I know that's a huge leap, and I'm aware that there is no longer a home button and no fingerprint scanning.What are the pros and cons?Has anyone here switched from a phone as old as mine to a newer model, and if so, what was your experience?I'm about to find out mine tomorrow. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488568/#p488568 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience Oh yes of course, when I have my headphones this is ideal, but I'm not the tipe to use them all the time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488563/#p488563 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience @8, I usually plug headphones in to solve the problem you describe, but I'm not often in a situation where I don't have them on me. It would definitely not be a solution for everyone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488538/#p488538 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience Thank you turtlepower17 and NicklasMCHD.I had looked for a setting before, but was looking in the phone section rather than the voice over section. At the time I may not have even realized it was voice over specific, though I did learn that at some point.I'm excited to avoid any more bursts of loud sound in my ears. Thanks! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488526/#p488526 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience I still have mixed feelings about that setting myself and not sure if I should turn it off. On one hand, software indeed makes the wrong decision sometimes and it sucks when that happens, but on the other hand it's super convenient when you want to check something while in a call and VO automatically goes to the speaker on the back, instead of you manually having to find and activate the button to switch speaker. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488524/#p488524 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience There are benefits to having better cameras, even for a blind person. I would imagine that apps like Seeing AI can take advantage of that, and if you use Aira, more is probably better depending on what kinds of things you're getting help with. Having said that, I definitely don't blame anyone for not wanting a phone with face ID.The previous poster is also correct, you can change the setting which makes Voiceover switch from the earpiece to the phone's speaker. Why that's not off by default, I don't know, but it's fairly easy to disable. Go into settings, accessibility, Voiceover, audio, and finally, look for a setting called "auto select speaker in call." Toggle that off, and the issue should be taken care of. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488498/#p488498 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience @Ian Reed and @darkThe proximity thing with phonecalls and vo, can be turned off (I just can't remember where it is located). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488438/#p488438 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience I've had the phone boom through my ear sometimes when I pick it up, but I didn't know that was due to extra speakers on the Iphone 8. Likewise, I sort of assumed 3D touch was part of the Os rather than hardware, but since I haven't bothered with any later models of Iphone, and probably won't I start running into things the 8 has trouble with that's not surprising. Btw, I had my Iphone 5 for a good five years between 2012 and 2017, and I pretty much expect the same sort of longevity out of the 8. Amusingly enough, apple tried to sell me an Iphone x when I bought the 8. We had a very funny conversation where the lady from Apple was telling me all about the awesome cameras and so much better facial recognition the Iphone x had, then i told her I was a blind person, there was a very long silence and she said "oh, so the 8 will be good for you then." . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488414/#p488414 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience I've had the phone boom through my ear sometimes when I pick it up, but I didn't know that was due to extra speakers on the Iphone 8. Likewise, I sort of assumed 3D touch was part of the Os rather than hardware, but since I haven't bothered with any later models of Iphone, and probably won't I start running into things the 8 has trouble with that's not surprising. Btw, I had my Iphone 5 for a good five years between 2012 and 2017, and I pretty much expect the same sort of longevity out of the 8. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488414/#p488414 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience One thing I find annoying about the iPhone 8 is that it has 2 speakers instead of one.Not sure when they changed that, but I had an iPhone 4S before it, which only had one speaker near the mouthpiece.The problem is that when voice over is enabled and you are on a phone call, it automatically switches between producing quiet audio in the earpiece, or loudly booming audio through both speakers, based on whether its proximity sensor thinks your head is next to the phone or not.One of the speakers is in the earpiece, which means that if the proximity sensor or software ever make the wrong decision and choose to boom through the speakers while your ear is held next to the earpiece, you will feel like smacking an Apple employee for the damage their poor sensor or software may be doing to your hearing.I've had that happen a few times. Argh!Now I try to keep the speaker volume low, so that if it happens at least it is not quite as loud.You could also turn off voice over when on a phone call, because then it does not switch automatically, but I don't really want to turn off voice over every time I get on a phone call, and then turn it back on every time I am getting off a phone call.I also like the 3D touch on the iPhone 8, though it is not used nearly as much as it could have been.Specifically I think it is really cool to dial phone numbers just by pressing harder on the number after I find it by exploring with my finger.It would have been really cool if they had also supported it for the on screen keyboard, but they did not.You can use it to switch tabs in some apps, or to press buttons.Using it on apps in the home screen brings up a shortcut menu, which I didn't care for.I liked it most when it was just an alternative to the one finger double tap or second finger tap.They ditched 3D touch in iPhone 11, and it probably won't come back again. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488411/#p488411 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience @Nicklas is correct on the home button, it was something I worried about but got used to relatively quickly. Also, I've noticed that the 8 has far better fingerprint scanning than the 6, and my old Iphone 5 which I had prior to Christmas of 2016 wouldn't do finger print scanning at all, though the improved 4G on the 8 is very useful, as is the general speed upgrade and the upgrades to the gyroscope which are very good for gaming.I will admit not having a headphone jack was less inconvenient than I expected, since adapter cables from 3.5 cm to Usb are very small and easy to carry and use, the one thing I do not like about the situation is that you can't use headphones and plug the phone in at the same time. this is mostly okay from a battery perspective, but can be annoying if your having to swap cables around late at night, or if you have an extended gaming session then have to stop to recharge. the thing I really like about the Iphone 8 is Oliver, since just as Alex and some of Apple's other voices weren't available on the Iphone 5, I don't believe oliver is available on the 6. Since about Ios 8, I've found for some reason that Daniel from nuance doesn't sound as good through Ios speakers. For a while I used the male Siri voice, but then once my lady got her own phone matters got confusing since she's also a fan of the male Siri voice and having two sets of announcements from two Iphones in the same room can be weird . I've since switched to Oliver, who I rather like, even if he is quite the base baritone. then again, voices are obviously a very individual thing.The only other thing I'll warn about, is that Ios 13.3 I've noticed has a bug or two with Vo. For example, when switching Aps, Vo is a little slow to catch up, I recently had issues with zobmies run Vo unlocking my phone when I tried to lock itin order to exercise, but in this case, it's an operating system problem, not a hardware problem, (I've seen threads about it on Applevis). hth. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488404/#p488404 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience
Re: Behind the Curve on iPhone and Seeking Experience Hi.The one big thing you would need to get use to in your case, is that they've switched the home button out from a physical button to a sensor. You'll still feel the bump there, but if you have your phone turned off, you wont feel anything happening (no press, no nothing), but when you have it turned on, you'll feel a vibration, so you know you've pressed it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/488366/#p488366 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
