Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA
MQA certification primarily means you pay a license fee and then you can use the label. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107118 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: All day battery power for Touch - �24
I think it mainly depends on the size. The big ones (10Ah and more) usually can do it, smaller ones often can't. It's probably because the smaller ones have simpler charging logic. But I've explicitly come across several that were not able to charge and operate at the same time while I was searching and that was only a few weeks ago, even big ones. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105197 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: All day battery power for Touch - �24
drmatt wrote: > Most of these things can be left charging while you draw power off them > too. More UPS than battery. Also means you don't have to turn off to > charge. Some do but check for it before buying. I just bought a power bank for a RPi-based radio I built and I had to buy one that was completely oversized (10,800 mAh which gives me around 24h of operation with that device) one because that was the only on that would turn on automatically, allow operation while charging and had two outputs. There's a lot of cheap crap out there. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105197 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Deezer remot on Transporter
volegradele wrote: > Hi,thx for the replay!I can not play Deezer with iPeng!When I am > connected on LMS it is all good,but to listen Deezer I must connect to > mysqueezbox.com,then I cant play/control Deezer on my Transporter,only > with Transporter standard remote!:( Two things: 1. To control your Transporter with iPeng while on MySqueezebox.com, iPeng needs to be registered to the same MySqueezebox.com account as your Transporter. Press the "i" behind "MySqueezebox.com" in the player list to configure it in iPeng 2. You don't NEED to switch to MySB is you configure your MySB account in LMS. You can do this in the web interface under "settings->MySqueezebox.com" --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106342 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Deezer remot on Transporter
I'm sorry, I don't understand what the question is? Do you want to control the Transporter or your phone (remotely)? I don't think you can remotely control Deezer's App but controlling Deezer on the Transporter through iPeng should work, if you run your own server (and only then) you could also play Deezer on the iPhone through iPeng's playback feature. That would then be remotely controllable as well. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106342 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Devialet Phantom Speakers
Oh, you don't have to reach that far. Sonos, for example, does that. Although they go one step further and completely replace a traditional DAC with a serialized (DSD-like) digital signal into a speaker with a low-pass filter. If you get your maths right this is probably the most promising of "clean" approaches --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105563 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Devialet Phantom Speakers
Hm, while you are taking this apart... Has any one of you actually HEARD this speaker? I mean... As much as it's audiophile mythology that you have to hear your power cables to know how you sound as much it is important for speakers. I do agree that 3000W is an awful lot of power for an active system but it's peak power and as long as we don't know averages it doesn't mean much, especially for a long excursion system. Also... It's a myth that you invariably need membrane size and volume. Active pressure wave shaping works and with modern high performance magnets you can get the excursions required and with modern DSPs you can actively form your signal. All possible, the difficulty is to get it right to avoid distortions. That's where I'd see some open questions: for a well-working active design you want one amplifier per channel (woofer, tweeter, mid range), with a DSP based equalization also with its own DAC each, do they have that? I see nothing in this design that can't work theoretically to make a really good speaker at this size, whether they succeeded depends a lot on how much they overcame the many technical challenges on the implementation side. I think to really judge on this thing one needs to hear it first. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105563 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Newest USB Technology. Trust your ears!
What's best is: the thing in the picture is just a standard Kingston 16GB USB stick for 7.50 quid or so. They didn't even take the effort to re-brand it So this is the real bargain https://www.reichelt.de/?ARTICLE=141356=2788_mc=amc141526782519998=Cj0KEQiAvuWyBRDO_Yzhpv_4nvEBEiQANBdXMoPk0xL1mEarkK4FvI_3406WV6CmiKy7f9ystZxkHiYaAuCB8P8HAQ --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104711 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Newest USB Technology. Trust your ears!
Um... No. Trust me, we have just as many of them over here. In the US their incentives are just higher... --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104711 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Newest USB Technology. Trust your ears!
You never know what we don't know! --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104711 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Newest USB Technology. Trust your ears!
Sorry, the link is in German but maybe Google Translate can reveal all the marvel of this product to English speakers, too. It's a USB stick that improves the sound quality of your CD recordings when you copy them. Just plug it into a USB port on your computer and then copy the CD to your harddrive and burn a new CD from it. The sound will gain more power, clarity and detail and the sound stage improves! People who tested it on their booth were generally overwhelmed! http://www.albat-online-shop.de/REMASTER-PLUS-System No drivers required, I assume --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104711 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Newest USB Technology. Trust your ears!
"What happened when I did it 8 times just blew my mind!" --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104711 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Dithered volume control for Squeezebox
It's not in the firmware, it's in SqueezePlay. Both technically and really. It's in Playback.lua It's not overridden per device. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104629 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Dithered volume control for Squeezebox
It's not part of the server, it's part of SqueezePlay. You need to download the SqueezePlay source code. The server doesn't contain any client-side code, the firmware is just used as complete bundle packages and even these are only downloaded at runtime. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104629 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Dithered volume control for Squeezebox
Interesting. What's ScriptPlay? Hadn't seen that one. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104629 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Dithered volume control for Squeezebox
Ok, that ScriptPlay thing is just for desktop SqueezePlay and overrides the model name. Irrelevant here. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104629 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Dithered volume control for Squeezebox
darrenyeats wrote: > Pippin, I've seen such custom tables but are you SURE that SqueezePlay > uses such a table? > Yes, I am sure. The player even matches gain values coming from the server (e.g. when using replay gain or fade-in/-out) to the table and picks a matching gain value from the table. > > Because the code has a parameter for the total volume range (74dB) that > can be set to any value. Also parameters for the ramping. I infer there > is no mapping to a custom table like for SB/Transporter. > Where did you find that? Applets can override this behavior but I haven't found any that does. Could it be that what you found is for the volume control and defines the stepping of the volume buttons/scale? That would still then be translated based on this curve by the player. Player and UI are separate logical entities in SqueezePlay (the UI can connect to a remote player, for example). > > I didn't write linear, I wrote equally divided by dB, which is itself a > logarithmic scale. > But _I_ wrote linear and wanted to make sure it's clear that what I meant was a linear curve for the dB values which then represent a logarithmic energy scale :) --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104629 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Dithered volume control for Squeezebox
darrenyeats wrote: > Dither is still the correct way to do volume control ...! Because I want > to play anything, over a usable volume range, without worrying about it. > > I'll add something here. Though I accept you might live within the > limits of the SB and Transporter volume controls, I'm not sure about the > Touch ...! > > I'm given to understand it's SqueezePlay that runs on the Touch, is this > true? From what I've seen of the SqueezePlay code, it uses a two part > scale where 0=-74db, 25=-37dB and 100=0db and volume steps divided > equally in dB in each scale. You can see the first part ramps rapidly. > This actually fits with my user experience with the Touch. Until someone > can explain otherwise, (_edit_*) I think the Touch likely truncates at > every volume level below 100, with 16 or 24 bit sources. > Darren > > *Thanks Julf. That's only half true. 1. Yes, SqueezePlay does have two overlapping volume ramps and there's actually even a volume level at which increasing the "logical" volume level by one decreases the actual volume level. The reason for this is that you want different levels of volume change for high and low relative volume levels. A "linear" (of course it's actually logarithmic) change would either have too big steps at high volume levels or too small steps at low levels. So if you don't like the ramp using an external volume control might help. 2. SqueezePlay never clips with 16 bit material. The reason is simple: it doesn't divide but multiplies with pre-divided scale factors from a scaling table. This is an in-range multiplication which never clips and doesn't lose any accuracy, the scaling is exact. There is no noise being added whatsoever. So with 16 bit material dithering doesn't make any sense from a noise perspective. 3. For 24 bit material EVERY volume control will clip, even a dithering one. It does clip at -144dB, though so if any your dithering effect will be a noise "optimization" (it's not a reduction because as mentioned before dithering itself is just adding noise, too) of -147dB. Worthwhile all the hassle? --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 9, the Universal App for iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104629 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
The biggest pitfall obviously being that you might not get the result you want to get. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
marcoc1712 wrote: > > That was a little paradox, but what if you go to the doctor with > toothache and after some serious examination he said 'it's impossible > you have toothache, go home and stay well"? > As of my experience doctors do that all the time. > > At the end, how I have to judge and decide witch audio system has to > sound my music in my house, if not listening to it? > We have two different topics at hand here. 1. How does a specific setup sound to someone. This is of course obvious and if your massive gold-plated power cable sounds better to you because you know how expensive it was and it gives you the warm feeling that you were able to afford it then that's a real and live effect and makes your listening experience better. 2. How a system should be designed to create the best output for everyone. The effect in #1 is highly individual and non-reproducible so discussing it in the context of "does something sound different" is totally useless. It doesn't get you anywhere because you can't influence it as a designer of a system. As a designer of a system you have to care about measurable effects and design the optimum performance for it. Asking "are there people to whom 64 kbpit/s mp3 played through a bluetooth speaker submerged inside of an aquarium sound better" gets you nowhere. Of course there are or nobody would buy beats headphones. But unless they are either your majority or your target group you'd usually stay with getting the most accurate sound reproduction and that specifically includes all kind of errors. Because stuttering or non-working playback is actually very inaccurate and even if it only happens to some people it's a serious degradation of your overall system performance. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
marcoc1712 wrote: > > What's your mind about? shall we start discussing what's the availlable > options should be? > No, I believe it's still to _easy_ to change transcoding settings, not too complicated. If it was more complicated (such as only allowing changes in custom-convert.conf), fewer people who don't know what they are doing would try it out. It's not as you claim, not everything you can set in these transcoding settings is "supported", you can render your setup completely useless with these settings. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
SBGK wrote: > so borrowing from Pippin > > Packetized network traffic->NIC->Network driver->flac -> sox ->decode > buffer->play buffer->aplay -> pcm -> kernel -> drivers -> device > > There is code to fill a decode buffer and then copy that to a play > buffer, perhaps the efficiency of that is different between flac and > wav. Is sox decoding a batch of data at a time ? > > I've always found wav to sound better than flac whether it was on pc or > sbt or apple Touch, flac would have a difference in timing which wasn't > present with wav. > > I use flac for archive, so am happy that after conversion the data is > the same, it's just the effect of decoding at the same time. For WiFi you are missing "AES decryption" --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
marcoc1712 wrote: > You posted here something regarding Jitter, are we talking about this? > I'm not, so any conclusion is irrrilevant here. > Now I'm confused. What ARE we talking about??? This whole thread is about jitter, isn't it? The _only_ reason I've ever heard of why WAV/PCM would sound better than FLAC is due to increased jitter due to higher or more uneven processor load. Now you are saying you have another reason? Which one? Or does it just sound better without any reason? --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
marcoc1712 wrote: > a. I'm not asking support for any of your products here. > b. If a system could be easily broken by fancy settings, people will > easily find the way. (Murphy law). > c. If a system could be broken, people will find the way. (a variant to > the Murphy law). > a) This is not about you, believe it or not. b) and c) But that's not what's happening. What's happening is that people are screwing up their systems because they believe they are improving their sound. Still no problem. The problem for me starts where they start to complain about the screwed up system and blame other stuff and causing work for me. And usually not even telling me "hey, I did screw up my system while tinkering around with settings, could you maybe help me?", they say "HEY, YOUR APP SUCKS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK AT ALL AND I PAID S MUCH FOR IT NOW GO DIAGNOSE AND FIX MY SYSTEM. NOW!!!" And the problems are plenty. Your example is just one pretty special case, yet, sorry, kind of typical because in your case it was again some very special, nonstandard setting, in this case combined with the fact that you had an outdated beta version of the server software. And at first you didn't say you are streaming PCM. You didn't ask me, though, you asked Michael, I did mention this isn't about you, didn't I :) Examples of things that frequently break for people using WAV or PCM streaming or both: - tagging - sorting - transcoding (e.g. for remote playback - playback of remote streams - playback of not directly supported formats (AAC for old Squeezeboxes, WMA for iPeng and so on,...) - playback of up- or downsampled files - network load issues - synchronization > > To be clear, You would like to get rid of WAV in LMS, let us use this as > an example. > Just to be clear, I don't want to get rid of WAV. I'm just saying WAV causes issues with tagging, PCM streaming causes issues with streaming. It's a fact. Does it sound different? I don't know. I haven't seen a single controlled listening test and the arguments brought forward as of why it should make a difference don't convince me at all. I DO know it causes trouble all over the place. There are other formats that cause trouble, too. WMA is similar as is AAC and ALAC, I would not recommend them either although I do even use some of those myself (lots of my lossless rips are ALAC for convenience). I am pointing out that these cause trouble, too. I have made quite a number of proposals to fix these issues here, some have been implemented. In this special case, though, it's about ignoring fixes already present in the server and then disabling them. Most people having issues are not really tech-savvy and know what they are tinkering around with. They have heard somewhere on some forum that their sound would get better if they change some setting because then their playback would be "bit-true" and the effect is "dramatic", so they change it. And then they don't understand the effects. > > If You - as a third party product developers - wanted introduce some > features thar could not work with WAV, you are always been welcome (i.e. > Earland plugins don't work with cue files) just declare it, test it > runtime and in case deny the service. More you'll be clear the less > people will call your support service (and claim you product is broken, > but could claim your product miss that faeature). > I can clearly see that you have never had contact with customers or users of your technical system in your life. A huge part of Apple's success, for example, resides on the fact that they usually simply don't give users the choice to screw up their system and don't introduce features that don't work in certain supported cases. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
Sorry, just so that I understand what you are talking about: this is about analog out on an SB+? This is a general thread so I'm quite sure others are talking about other setups. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
marcoc1712 wrote: > > > I'm still missing the one that prouf the opposite and - in any case- I > think they are not 'the answer' to the question. And I am missing a proof that Nessie doesn't exist. It's not possible to prove that something doesn't exist. And this fact is being used by a huge "audiophile" business sector to sell expensive snake oil to people. Which is exactly where all the hate is coming from. For me personally, I'm seeing that a significant part of the people asking me for customer support have simply screwed up their system due to following some of these audiophile guides and then they want help from me, put the blame on my App etc. etc., it's affects the amount of time I have to do seriously useful features and in fact there are seriousness useful features I did NOT implement due to the very fact that they might cause issues in such setups and therefore create even more support issues. If it was just a spleen it wasn't a big issue but it potentially affects the quality of products even of those who don't want to follow it, that's a problem. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
marcoc1712 wrote: > Nothing strange in this, they will always do like that. But You know > they ar esometime rigth just because you don't clearly stated BEFORE it > was not faseable... > > If you did, You could even charge them when you discover they did. But > if You have asetting in the system that broke you software, is up to > you, You are going to recieve complaints and - sure - your software is > broken here. > You still don't get it. It's not my App that breaks, it's their Squeezebox system. My App can do nothing about the fact that they have no artwork in their WAV files. My App can do nothing about the fact that with uncompressed HD streams all of a sudden they can't sync several players over WiFi anymore. My App can do nothing about the fact that some streams no longer play because they don't have the required codecs on their NAS. But they still come to me because my App is how they use their system so obviously it has to be able to cope with all the stuff they do to their server and fix all these issues. > > Those are yuor opinons, not fact. I could say misuse of tagging and > streaming with WAV could cause problems, then a Tagging application or a > server shoul take care of this or... Just don't support them! > Oh yea, what a GREAT idea. Are you sure you ever talked to real customers? The customer has a problem, they don't care what part of the system breaks, they don't care whether it's their own fault, they want it fixed and it has to be fixed without them changing the transcoding settings back because, of course, "with FLAC the box sounds like crap". > > So I suggest you don't support WAV TAGGING, clearly STATE you retain > support IF PCM streaming is activated (you could check it in your > software, I suppose) in your software. If someone then call you for > this, You could even charge him (Major software company do exactly that > way). > Listen, I have 1400 characters to describe an App, I can't write a 300-page book about limitations of the Squeezebox system if you apply certain audiophile nonsense settings. Plus, real-life users don't read that stuff anyway if it's more than two lines of text. Heck, I can't blame them, I don't. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
marcoc1712 wrote: > > a. cut users hands, fight against Audiophiles, teach users they are > evil... > I don't want to "fight" audiophiles. They can do what they want, it's a free world out here. I just ask you for the same things you are asking me for: 1. I will say my opinion. I will call out what I believe is nonsense when I see it. You won't stop me from that. 2. When telling people they should make "optimizations" to the system, tell them about the side effects, that they can't expect the system to be stable anymore and that things might break. As long as they don't do that I will keep recommending not to follow these recommendations. That's all. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Once again - does wav sound different than flac?
The other way around: how does the data get into the player. For WiFi it's pretty obvious that PCM is a bad trade because then you have twice the data rate going through a complex encryption algorithm instead of half the data rate through the rather simple FLAC so with PCM over WiFi you increase your player load. With wired Ethernet it's not that clear and a lot depends on your player and the network stac. But even there the chain is: Packetized network traffic->NIC->Network driver->player's input buffer->Player's playback buffer...l And that's only the best case and since the network traffic is packetized at lest the left of this is neither pointer forwarding nor simple block copies, --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104227 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cut your speakers in half!
The problem for many high-end manufacturers is, that they don't really sell large volumes of these 25k speakers. No way that you can afford a wave soldering setup or even have a large enough batch to get it contracted. So manual soldering and even there I'd think some of them might have people doing all the assembly, not specializing in soldering because you know, hiring someone to do just soldering and then having one day of work for them each month doesn't really work... Of course you can make sure your does-everything worker is well trained and some certainly do but for some I'd bet it's the engineers themselves actually building the devices. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104029 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Last words on PONO...
It would be even more interesting to look at some of the HD tracks and check whether they still contain MP3 artifacts... --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102976 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Tidal launch review
garym wrote: @pippin, Could you elaborate on this. So my Transporter has a smaller internal buffer than my Touch or Radio. Well, it's all about that Net Neutrality thing everybody keeps talking about. Yes. I don't know the exact figures for the Transporter but Touch and Radio use 3MB which is a bit of a top-end compromise. iPeng by default uses 8MB but to do this we had to include an option to use a smaller buffer because it conflicts with some services, namely Pandora but also internet radio stations can be affected and e.g show wrong track information. You rarely really need a big buffer over your local network, iPeng's is primarily there for people using it e.g. in a car. What a larger buffer buys you is reliability with unstable connections. It doesn't help when bandwidth is the problem (because then you won't get a large buffer filled anyway) and you don't need it when everything is fine. But streaming over the internet _can_ be unstable. Unstable in this case might simply mean that a packet shows up 10s late because something on the way between the server and you is congested. This is a problem for streaming and the reason streaming providers build up those huge CDNs (content distribution networks). It's not the bandwidth itself (which is usually sufficient) and not the latency (which doesn't matter, you're going to buffer more than one or two seconds anyway and you almost never have more latency than that), it's congestion causing interruptions. Now... a little background on what happens on your network on Saturday evening... What the internet is being used for (in the US) on Saturday evening is Netflix and YouTube. The two combined make up more than 50% of peak internet traffic in the US. http://www.techtimes.com/articles/20686/20141122/netflix-is-hogging-35-percent-of-peak-internet-traffic-in-north-america-what-about-others.htm That's a lot of traffic you need to get your packets through. But that alone is not the biggest issue. The biggest issue is that NetFlix and YouTube have priority access to your network (to the distribution network from the backbone to your home) because they don't feed their stream through the normal internet backbone but directly to the ISP's networks. http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/10/01/understanding-netflix-neutrality/ What this means in this case is: when your TIDAL stream arrives at your ISP's network, all those NetFlix and YouTube streams are already there using up bandwidth and your packets have to make their way through the rest. There is enough capacity that they will get through, that's why you still see high bandwidth figures when you measure your connection, but some may arrive later because they had to wait (or even be re-transmitted if it's an IP based stream) and if the delay for one packet exceeds your buffer size... dang. You can get around this with a bigger buffer because the overall bandwidth is not affected. After some of your packets waited for 10s it might be that a lot of them arrive almost at the same time so you _do_ have bandwidth to fill a bigger buffer which is why you often build bigger buffers into the native Apps for such services - after all the service knows it has to support that. All of that said: That's for normal operation. From my experience with occasional issues with TIDAL I actually had the impression that when there is heavy stuttering then there is a bandwidth issue of some kind because streams never really recover. I don't know whether it's on my side or on TIDAL's. It usually goes away after a few minutes (it's also pretty rare). It could be that e.g. something in my area is temporarily eating a lot of bandwidth. Or, if it's on TIDAL's side it could be that the node they are streaming through is too congested. Given how fast things seem to usually improve I'd almost guess it's the latter and TIDAL (or their CDN, I think they are not operating that themselves) re-configures the network to use other, less congested nodes instead. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103453 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Tidal launch review
Yes, please let me know. I usually also tell TIDAL then because I know they are still optimizing their network and can use the feedback. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103453 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Tidal launch review
krochat wrote: Are you sure the rebuffering isn't ickstream? I also get rebuffering on my Touch at certain times, but when the Squeezebox is struggling if I go to the Tidal PC app, I can play tracks with no problem. Kim Do you still see that? Where are you located? There should not be any ickStream specific buffering issues anymore. In the beginning there was an issue with TIDAL using wrong streaming servers when streams were requested by us because the requests were not coming directly from the server. But when TIDAL rolled out their new CDN a few weeks ago this should have been fixed and actually we haven't really seen specific cases since then. I have seen a few cases with stuttering, too, but in all of these cases TIDAL's app and especially web interface were similarly affected. There is one risk remaining: especially the old Squeezebox models have a rather small internal buffer so they are a bit more sensitive against unstable connections compared to especially the smartphone Apps (but TIDAL's web interface for me always was even more sensitive). The Touch should be much less affected, though. From what I can see TIDAL are still improving their content distribution, these things usually take a lot of tweaking until they are really good under all conditions. But from what I know I see no reason why there should be ickStream specific performance issues. We also no longer have performance issues on our service itself. We had some, especially on weekends, in the beginning but these are fixed now, we haven't seen a lockup or performance issue in several weeks now, --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103453 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is this a good way to compare interconnect cables?
Mono mode combines the two signals in the preamp but you are sending different signals to the preamp through the left and right channel. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102596 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: iPhone 4 and 6...
The iPhones, even the older ones, have absolutely no issue with transcoding. They have powerful floating point processors and vector units for media processing. In the past, they used to run codecs on a DSP but they no longer do this because they found that it performs better on the main processor. You can even do things like FFT and stuff in real time allowing you to do processing tasks like room correction in real time. Internally, iOS supports sample rates of up to 192 KHz with 32 bits and even with a lot of channels (64 IIRC), all of that will be resampled in the output stage to whatever you need (up to 96 kHz, 24 bits is supported through USB). These are really powerful media processing devices, you can't compare them to NASs, RPis or the like, the latest ones match or even exceed most desktop PCs in media processing performance (if you exclude GPUs or more powerful audio cards), especially since their multitasking model is still far superior to what Windows does. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102270 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: iPhone 4 and 6...
Oh, and this is not relatively inexpensive hardware, too. You can easily buy two desktop PCs or a pretty powerful notebook for the price of an iPhone 6 --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102270 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: iPhone 4 and 6...
Oh, ok, yes, of course. I got a bit carried away by answering Mnyb's post on processing power. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102270 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: iPhone 4 and 6...
The processor even on iPad 1 and iPhone 4 is pretty powerful. iPad 1 severely lacks memory and especially graphics memory which means it moves a lot of memory between regular and graphics memory which hurts performance. And iOS 7 has all these effects which eat a lot of GPU performance and it has a changed scheduling which is not good on the single-core devices. On the Air it's actually all the live blur effects that eat up all the performance. Given that is has a higher resolution than an HD TV these take an incredible amount of power. Turn them off in the accessibility settings and it will become lightning fast. Most ordinary notebooks would not have enough graphics power to do the same kind of effects. Plus, of course, you don't need 60hz frame rates for scrolling on a computer. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102270 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter V 2.2 versus V 2.5
Definitely not. They removed the knob when they build a last set of Transporters from leftover parts and didn't have any knobs left. No new boards built for that. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102078 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter V 2.2 versus V 2.5
I doubt then really manufactured 15 different versions. Even for one Transporter will have had pretty low volume --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102078 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Candlemass wrote: Tell it the audio engineers in the studio :p They are creating the information. That's something else than not distorting it. After the audio engineer has worked on it the music often sounds nothing like the raw material he got at all. Why does it matter if you have a DAC, an amplifier and a speaker or a DAC and an amplifier inside your speaker? :rolleyes: Your chain does not get shorter this way, it's just built in one box instead of three boxes. That's not true. You save two important parts which account for the biggest part of the loss in an audio chain today: 1. Cables. As mentioned above, for a line level signal that's not negligible at all. Even with balanced outputs/inputs there still can and will be EMC issues over several meters. That goes away if the DAC is in the speaker. 2. Passive filters. Probably the number 1. If your amp is not matched to the speaker (and actually to each driver within the speaker) you need to use a passive, analog filter to separate the frequencies and to match the signal with the frequency response of the speaker. Passive filters are very, very limited compared to digital ones so you have to stack a lot of them or build huge speakers with a very linear frequency response or you have to use one-way wideband speakers. Stacking lots of filters creates lots of losses. Building huge speakers is not very practical and wideband speakers are usually limited in power. Especially #2 trumps whatever you can do with DACs, power supplies, cables, whatever. Not worth looking at any of these if you later introduce signal losses a few orders of magnitude higher. In very, very high end systems you sometimes use separate amps per driver or speakers with a linear response but we are talking about stuff you buy at the cost of a car or so. And why would you even want to do that in a new design today, now that you can just match the amp with the speaker since it's cheap enough to put two or three amps into a speaker housing? --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
You did understand me completely wrong. But you are aware how speakers with multiple drivers actually work, right? I'm talking Class D amps and digital (matching and crossover) filters vs. analog amps and analog filters (crossover only). No DSP stuff. For each speaker you need a separate crossover filter (high-pass for the tweeters, low-pass for the woofers, bandpass for the medium sized ones). In a passive speaker these filters create huge losses - both in terms of signal quality and of actual power loss - because analog filters can only be so good. Even a 4th order. And you can't create a filter characteristic to match the frequency response of the driver and case. Because creating complex analog filters will create even more losses. With a digital filter and a separate amp per driver (as it's done in active speakers) you have no such issues. Effectively, the audio chain is much, much shorter. Analog: DAC - preamp - amp - filter-cascade - driver Digital: DAC - amp - single filter - driver --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Sure, but if you don't use it as an additional device but to replace analog filters, losses are much lower. Ideally (my DAC in the speaker) you can do all the processing even before the DAC. One DAC per channel will eventually get cheap enough, too. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Sure. That would be the ideal setup with the lowest losses (you need one DSP per driver or a DSP powerful enough to process several channels simultaneously). --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Wow, didn't remember this. Looks like the Transporter indeed measures quite a bit better, especially the DAC's resolution looks quite superior. Wonder how it compares to a modern USB DAC. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Well, now that's a totally different story, isn't it? However, my experience is that over time when quality of one part of a system improves then others improve as well: if all your steaming client can reproduce is 160kbps mp3 there's little sense for high resolution speakers and so on. I remember very well to have participated in a listening test 13 years ago in which nobody was able to tell apart 256 Kbps mp3 from a raw CD signal. I still have the demo files and on my current setup I _am_ able to tell apart at least some of the tracks - admittedly that doesn't mean I will then know which one is mp3 and which one is raw, but that, again, is a different story. But maybe my ears simply got worse over the years to a point where it's now easier to tell mp3 from the original music. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Yes, actually that's the biggest change I notice. Comparing an mp3 I encode today with one from 13 years ago makes such a big difference (and yes, I do use 320 now instead of 256, hard drives also got cheaper) --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
I am less concerned about any hype, I just believe that in the end USB is the most simple connection type because all components are being produced in the gazillions, so my guess would be that it's the segment where you get most bang for the buck. Plus, I'd hope they are smaller. I'm not really into filling up my living room with 19-inch audio bricks :) --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Yes, but I'm not an audiophile, I just want to listen to good music. I hope I'm going to be happy with my Transporter for many years to come but should it ever die, I'll need something with balanced outputs again and hey, you know, it should be as good as the Transporter, too. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Oh, I have my own guideline, it's conveniently short: 1. Try to have as few devices in your audio chain as possible. Every signal processing has losses and you don't get that lost information back, no matter how hard you try (yes, that dreaded second law of thermodynamics affects information, too). I currently have Transporter-Speakers. Perfect. Although it of course depends on the design of the devices. 2. All fudging with the sound should be done by the speakers and I chose the ones that sound best to me. All other components are necessary burden and need to be minimized. Ideally, my next set of speakers has a digital input or even a built-in streaming client - although the latter means you need very, very good sync. That's it. No need for expensive power supplies, power cables, closets, stands or whatever. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Balanced outputs. Which you need if you want to drive good active speakers (unless you live in an anechoic chamber) which in turn is what you want to do these days, at least when you buy new ones. You'd ned an external DAC for the Touch for that. Apart from that it's really primarily the looks, it really looks cool. And it has this incredible force-feedback knob that feels so cool to use. At least it did that one time I have ever used it to try it out because it's of course really uncomfortable to kneel down in front of my Transporter to use a complex menu on a two-line display so I only control it remotely. And due to some unexplainable, huge UX fail that cool knob can't just do volume, which would be hugely useful. If I could only ask for one single change to they device... But I've filed that bug something like 6 years ago, not going to happen. I'd probably prefer the Touch with an external DAC today due to it's better codec support but you have to keep in mind that the Transporter is a much older product than the Touch. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter or Transporter SE
Um... What exactly do they offer for that warranty? They don't repair Transporters anymore and they don't have stock left. Somehow it also feels like I would not expect them to give you your money back... Not that they end up offering to replace it with a radio as they have done to Touch owners... --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
jimbobvfr400 wrote: Yes it's 1 paragraph in a very interesting 5 page article. Worth a read IMO Yep. And especially... With a good active speaker design it's not just cables. If you do this right you don't need (and don't WANT) DACs, preamps, power amps, DSPs and all that other stuff that makes a hifi system today. Just speakers with a network connection and a display somewhere else to show what's playing. And that setup will actually beat everything you get in terms of high-end audio today at what's probably a few percent of the price. It will come, I'm not worried. First progress has been made, these days you don't really have to use a preamp and there's also no passive crossover in modern speakers anymore. There are speakers that can run directly on RL encoded digital signals (actually, they have been around for 20 years or so so progress isn't always fast, indeed) so you don't need a DAC and so on. I'm not worried about the few audiophiles who believe in their collection of expensive signal-loss accumulators, let them do as they like and be happy with it, all others can experience superior audio at a lower price, that's fine. What worried me more was the convergence with devices for video because the requirements are so different and a lot of vendors thought that - since movies need sound as well - video equipment could do music, too. That has let development stall a lot. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Mnyb wrote: Pippin was it not you that used Adam active speakers ? Yes, I do. Although there's certainly much more potential for good sound quality than what they offer but for the size they have it's a good start. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
bernt wrote: http://www.teenageengineering.com/products/od-11/ Right concept but in the speaker design they do pretty much everything that article condemns. Bass-reflex, putting speakers WITHIN a housing and so on... It's the same kind of integrated approach but I wouldn't expect superior sound from it. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
Yea, but if you read the article it's EXACTLY the kind of speaker design that completely ignores phase and impulse response. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another interesting read - this time about speaker development.
How about reading the article first ;) --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 7, the Universal App for iOS 7* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=101784 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
First of all: WAV means: transport twice the number of bits over the network which causes twice the load in all your network interfaces (NIC, buffers,...). If you use WiFi it also means: decrypt twice the number of bits, a process that needs much more CPU cycles than the simple FLAC decoding. I have made measurements on the load but not on the effect on sound, my output was through an asynchronous USB DAC, there probably was no difference at all. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
yep. And one effect of server-side upsampling is a dramatic increase of bandwidth requirements. Going from 44.1/16 to 192/24 means you increase the bandwidth required by a factor of 8! --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
Don't want to distract this even more, but you are correct, I caught an additional factor of two for PCM but your video streams are MPEG rates, I was talking about H.264 which runs at around half the rate. So it's about the same as a 1080p stream, the ones I looked at here were all in the 10 MBit range. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
I can confirm that WAV actually causes a LOT more load than FLAC decoding, at least on an iPhone. Of course, an iPhone will always uses WiFi but then I believe there have been similar measurements on the SB Touch as well. Especially is we talk about upsampled material, we are talking about a LOT of data for a WAV stream, at 192 kHz sample rate it's several times the data rate required for an HD video stream! --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
Ah. OK. So how does this interpolation filter work? In the NI link they show a filter curve that nicely follows the sine wave which will not be so simple for music. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
I didn't mean to question the sense behind upsampling. I fully understand why that makes the (analog) filter design easier and the result better. But John's argument was that you get a better result by using a NOS DAC and do the oversampling through sox because the interpolation filter in sox is simpler than the multiple ones in oversampling DAC designs and I was wondering why that is and what kind of filter sox is using. Intuitively I still feel just duplicating the samples as normal oversampling does it should give the best results but that's just a feeling in an area where I really don't have a lot of experience, that's why I asked. But to me it looks like this: while the duplication strategy is assured to create quite powerful images at the same time you can be sure to have all of that going on beyond your cutoff frequency while I feel arithmetic interpolation should create noise over a broader spectrum. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
flimflam wrote: But what are the steps undertaken in re-creating the waveform? Clue: it's not called a smoothing filter for nothing! Yea. But that was my point. Unless you know exactly what your waveform is you are just as likely to AMPLIFY your noise than to SMOOTH your signal. To really be able to smooth you'd have to analyse the whole signal spectrum and you'd have to do that over some time - ideally the whole file(to know the dynamic range). But sox doesn't do that it just looks at a few samples. For the same reason DACs don't do it: it would introduce too much delay and require too much buffering and processing power. I mean... I can call everything a smoothing filter, I can also call lead grey gold. What it actually does is another story, though. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
OK, but that's not smoothing, that's just low-pass filtering, which ideally removes ALL effects of the stair-steps. However, here we are not talking about analog processing BEHIND the DAC, we talk about digital processing BEFORE the DAC. And here smoothing is not simple and any kind of arithmetic interpolation doesn't necessarily have to create a better reproduction but instead - just as likely - can create a worse one. Look at these images: 14972 Here, for a low sampling frequency, e.g. 44.1 kHz, there are two samples A and B which - just looking at these two samples, might result in a waveform as the one shown. Now if you go to a higher sampling frequency, the usual process of oversampling would just duplicate the samples A and B resulting in A' and B'. A resulting waveform then might be as shown in the second image which looks much worse. So one might be tempted do calculate some intermediate values A and B and hope that the result might more closely match. Now here's the problem: unless you've looked at the whole signal (which you can't do due to time and processing requirements), you don't know whether the first waveform given above is correct, it could just as well be one like this: 14973 What you see here is that now your intermediate steps A and B are a much worse match for the original waveform than A' and B' - you get more noise. Now, what might come as a surprise is that all of this does NOT matter at all as long as in the end you filter at your cutoff frequency again. The reason for this is that all the noise and distortion added above actually happens in higher frequency ranges, it's only in harmonics to the original waveform. Since these higher frequencies are inaudible (as in: definitely, completely, undisputedly inaudible; not even a bat will hear them), you can filter them and the result of this is, again, the perfect copy of the first waveform. For BOTH of the right-hand side curves. Actually this would still hold if you throw in random samples in place of A', A, B' and B. This is what you do with oversampling. The reason for this is that the filters you use to do this are not perfect. They will either distort your audible signal or not perfectly filter out the higher frequencies but they get better the higher the sampling frequencies you use are. So you accept the added noise due to oversampling because the end result will still be less distorted due to simpler and better filters. Now what John is talking about is something else. The problem with these images above is that while the anaolg low-pass filter behind the DAC can perfectly reproduce the signal, the same unfortunately is NOT true of the DAC itself. The DAC itself is a filter, too, and depending on the waveforms above those higher frequencies CAN actually have an impact on the way the DAC reproduces you AUDIBLE signal (imaging). To avoid this, you usually try to filter your signal even BEFORE it reaches the DAC to avoid having your artifacts distort your signal. These are the filters John and I are talking about. And the question it all boils down to is: what makes the filter in sox better than the ones in the DAC? Sox is a very simple interpolation software so if it can do better: why don't the DAC makers just do the same thing? +---+ |Filename: waveform2.jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14973| +---+ --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
flimflam wrote: Same thing! Smoothing filter is a specific and recognised term for this filter - whether you like it or not :-) ! The term is used by many, Analog Devices refer to it by this name a lot. That the stair steps are smoothed seems obvious, the term does not mean to imply anything else. OK, may be. I learned all my signal theory in German so terminology might not be my strong point here. But it's still something different from the interpolation filter we were talking about above. The latter is all about the former though, of course! It is the raison d'etre, as you say yourself, behind oversampling. John was explaining this in relation to stair steps of the ZOH but you did not seem to understand and asked what stair steps, I was trying to explain, that's all. Um. Sorry. Again, I fail to see it. Again: Why does interpolation filtering on the digital side improve the analog filtering and how is the interpolation even correlated to your desired filter response. I can find a lot of prosa about this on the internet, mainly by makers of such filters, but I haven't found a single explanation that makes sense. All I find is stuff like this: http://www.ni.com/white-paper/5515/en/ Which - sorry - is nonsense (the digital interpolation part. The analog and imaging explanations are OK). I mean: it's not if your goal is to reproduce ideal sine waves generated by a signal generator as shown in the example, fine. But to do that you'd not have to take such an effort, perfectly reproducing sine waves from a few samples is the easiest thing you could ever do in signal processing. For a real world signal like music I fail to see how an interpolation filter will be effective and valid because - unlike in these sine wave examples - you do NOT know the exact waveform. The only reason the interpolation filter in that example is effective is because whoever drew that diagram did EXACTLY know the parameters of the sine wave PLUS, these parameters didn't change at all over the duration of the signal. Under these circumstances it's of course easy to fill in the added samples with perfectly fitting interpolations hence not creating any harmonics. However, that's NOT what you have in real life, ESPECIALLY not with a software like sox that can only look at a few samples at a time (you COULD theoretically do this right when you did an analysis of the whole audio file but we are talking about a LOT of digital signal processing here). I agree 100% with you. I would avoid external resampling, and deliver bit-perfect to the DAC, preferring to let the extremely capable designers at Analog, Cirrus Logic, TI, Wolfson etc do their job. If a DAC/ADC loop cannot be distinguished from the original, it says a lot I think. That's my opinion, it's not a very positive contribution to the thread and its undoubtedly hard work, so I didn't say it loud before. Now... THAT's a statement I understand :) --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
JohnSwenson wrote: Let me see if I understand your first question. As long as the highest frequency of the audio data is small relative to the sample rate (say 40KHz maximum signal frequency for a 192 sample rate) you do not need much if any filtering. There are going to be very little aliasing and its going to be above the audio range. The big problem comes with 44.1 where the audio data is right next to the aliases. But then you've got all these high frequencies still in there on the analog side. Isn't the biggest problem with the high frequencies that power amps (especially ones filtering through intermediate frequencies like Class D amps) tend to create artifacts if you have signal in multiples of the audible range? By a complex filter I mean multiple filters cascaded together (especially different types of filters) rather than one filter (even if it has a large number of taps). All of the DAC chips with filters have at least three (some 4) different digital filters cascaded together. They do this because the individual filters can be a fairly small number of taps. To implement the same amount of alias suppression with a simple single filter would take a lot more hardware. Again I have no idea why the complex filters cause sonic issues, but it does seem like they do. Every time I have replaced a complex filter with a simple filter the resulting music sounds much better. What kind of filters do they use? I do know that kind of stuff for analog filters where both the reason for their use and the negative impact are quite obvious. But then... like for the windowed sinc filter you mentioned even digital filters are not perfectly discrete if you need finite impulse response and linear phase so it makes sense that they will also flatten the frequencies within your filter/below your cutoff frequency. But isn't that the same for your interpolation filter in sox? Of course, the interpolation filter doesn't window so it keeps all the harmonics in there (and creates some arbitrary new ones) but why is that better than leaving the simple harmonics of the 44.1 kHz samples in? What kind of filters does sox use? --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
Please excuse my ignorance on DAC design and related digital filtering. While I do believe I understand the signal theory part and the way the DACs fundamentally work I don't know a lot about how digital filters in these things are actually implemented. JohnSwenson wrote: The amplitude of the alias is determined by the height of the stair step in the signal. Which stair step In the filter function? I mean... there are no stair steps in the sampled signal itself (unless you create artificial samples for oversampling which, of course, are not stair steps but simply potentially wrong samples creating harmonics) I know... all those hifi mags and high-end manufacturers always show this stair-step graph over the sine wave but you and me know that's nonsense and that sine wave in that example can actually be perfectly reproduced from only two samples... Now, here's what I don't get: The filter adds steps in between the originals steps, because of the increased samples and the increased bit depth the height of the steps is much less, thus producing much lower amplitude aliases. But to do that, it needs to know _how_ to interpolate to get a better interpolation value. I mean in that nonsensical sine wave image from the hifi mags things look easy, but in real life the wavform looks something like this https://soundcloud.com/barbnerdy/lets-go-dancing-june-2013 So if your first sample has a value of, say, 50, and the second one has a value of, say, 100, you have no way to say that 75 is a good interpolation value. The correct value might as well be 4096 or 0, unless you do a full spectral analysis over the resulting signal you just can't know whether 75 is any better than just duplicating 50 so a linear or logarithmic or whatever arithmetic interpolation will with all likelihood just as bad and the chances for it improving your signal are exactly the same as the chances for worsening it. On average, you just add the same amount of noise as with simple duplication. Unless, of course, your interpolation filter _does_ some sort of spectral analysis but then that's quite a task which is why I asked what exactly sox is doing to interpolate... The reason to do the digital filtering at all is that for 16/44.1 the stair steps are large But only due to oversampling, right?. I still don't get how that affects NOS DACs. I thought NOS DACs will have all the wrong excess signal beyond your cutoff frequency still in there and you need to use analog filters to get rid of it or rely on intermodulation filters in your power amp? Now let's look at what happens with the signal upsampled to 176.4, the aliases start at 88.2. Ah... OK, so the idea here is that instead of having an alias above your cutoff frequency you just get white or pink noise which can't intermodulate with your actual signal? The part I still don't understand is how the interpolation actually reduces the aliasing. Because if it doesn't, wouldn't you just get the same amount of aliasing in your upsampled signal as you would have in any oversampled signal? How does the interpolation filter do something else than the low-pass you would usually use for anti-aliasing and still be effective? Or does it just add more noise so that... Now the fun part is to do this filtering in such a way that it preserves the flavor of the original recording. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Upsampling Impressions
JohnSwenson wrote: Before getting into details I want to talk about sample rate. The filters in many DAC chips get simpler the higher up the sample rate is. For example the chip I'm using in the CSP player has a very simple filter at 176.4/192 and NO filter at 352.8/384. So what you are saying is that if you use these kind of DACs with real (that is: unfiltered) HD material like actual HD recordings you will have all the aliasing down there in the audible band? This means you have to actually run real HD material through a filter to get a useful reproduction with this kind of DAC at all? --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and *New: Logitech UE Smart Radio* as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=99088 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is louder always perceived as better sounding?
It _is_ the reason, though, why all that dynamic compression is being done. It comparatively increases the volume of the track. It's less conclusive than the effect for identical tracks, though pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is louder always perceived as better sounding?
It's coming from ABX tests, there are scientific papers about this. It's not an urban myth, you are special. How did you find out? Did you do an ABX Test? This is especially about loudness differences which are too subtle to be consciously perceived. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98610 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RESULTS: Blind Test MP3 vs. Lossless out now...
cdmackay wrote: This doesn't explain *why* it might sound better, though? We know it shouldn't sound (much) worse, and these tests seem to support that, but why might it sound better? The way most of these tests are being done is that you write a set of rules (we can compress in this way), use them to do the compression and then you let people listen to the result (blind ABX test). You then test for two things: whether people can discriminate between the compressed/uncompressed tracks (codec with less discrimination is better) and you test which ones are perceived to sound better (better is better). As a result, you get a codec that is as hard to discriminate as possible but also you get a codec that amplifies characteristics people regard as sounding good. One thing you can find with a lot of mp3 tracks is an actual perception of increased transparency which in turn is NOT a surprise since some frequencies simply get cut out. This is usually perceived as sounding better, actually especially by people who are trained listeners (they are used to try to identify different characteristics in the music and this becomes easier with the cut-out frequencies). An interesting test would be to split the results into groups, depending on how familiar the subjects were with listening to MP3. e.g. one might imagine that subjects that listen to a lot of MP3 might be more likely to prefer MP3 over lossless, compared to those who regularly listen go FLAC, or don't regularly listen to MP3. Has been done at great length. Except for the identification of a few well-known artifacts there is generally no effect of better listening experience or personal preference. Audiophiles (if they ever agree to do ABX tests) don't test better or different than others. This is a bit different to tests for dynamics compression where having listening experience actually _does_ help. There is only one thing that strongly correlates with being able to identify mp3s and that's hearing defects. People who have strongly reduced hearing capabilities in higher frequency ranges can clearly identify mp3s because for them the frequency masking effect doesn't work anymore. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98010 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RESULTS: Blind Test MP3 vs. Lossless out now...
Archimago wrote: I think the results will be surprising for most. I was certainly surprised as I checked the survey day to day and started to see the bias / significance building strongly a couple weeks into the test! Bottom line - most respondents thought the lossless Set sounded inferior! archimago.blogspot.com This is not at all unexpected but actually something you'll find with almost every ABX test on mp3, have seen it myself when doing such tests in the past. The cause is probably the psychoacoustic compression. To compress, mp3 uses heuristics that are known (from actual tests) to preserve perceived SQ while dropping information. Mp3 got developed with the goal to have the best sounding result at a given bitrate and it's been tested and re-tested to get close to this. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=98010 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Archimago wrote: Hi Pippin; great work on iPeng BTW! Been using it for years :-) On the 1st page of this thread for the Touch measurements MEASUREMENT: Logitech Squeezebox Touch (Pt 2), I measured the WiFi vs. ethernet conditions (16/44 amp; 24/96) using the Touch's analogue output and found no difference. This was with native FLAC decoding on the device itself. So you're interested in whether server side decoding (hence higher data transmission of PCM) might add to the noise level of the analogue outputs? Is that an accurate summary of what you'd like to see? Yes. And thanks for the warm words on iPeng, good to hear you like it pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
SoftwireEngineer wrote: The higher system load is on ipads right ? Have you checked this out on the Squeezebox itself (which is where this suggestion originated) ? This probably is related to hardware architecture. It was on iPad, yes. But the system load argument has also been brought forward for iPeng where I can only observe that the load with PCM is higher. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Some Squeezebox numbers to consider...
Hi, let me chime in for one more question: did I overlook the test for server-side FLAC decoding vs. FLAC decoding on the touch itself? I would be really interested in that one, especially also in a comparison between the WiFi vs. Ethernet performance. The rationale is that counter to conventional audiophile wisdom my experience when testing 96/24 playback in iPeng was that the raw PCM data actually caused a noticeably _higher_ system load compared to FLAC. What this means is, that he system load caused by decoding FLAC is actually less than the load caused by the higher amount of data (roughly factor 2) for PCM. It was quite noticeable even on a device as performant as iPad 3. Now, the iPad of course always uses WiFi (no Ethernet there) and it's quite obvious that the load actually HAS to be higher: all the data needs to go through the WPA decoding which certainly requires more power than FLAC decoding. But then I'm not sure that the WPA decoding isn't done in the WiFi chipset so that the CPU (where I noticed the difference in load) doesn't ever get involved. Any chance you'd run one (OK, four) more test(s)? pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97950 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
SBGK wrote: they can't hear differences the rest of the audiophile world can hear. Except for in double blind tests, of course pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What is the best top end player now ?
Chuck Norris can hear jitter. Nuff said about it. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96407 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter playing 88KHz/24bit tracks?
Could be that 88 kHz is not supported. I think I remember something like that from iPeng testing. I think the Touch supports it. Doesn't the server transcode? Or are you trying to drive the Transporter directly somehow? pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97142 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Logitech Android App Squeezebox
It should find it and no, the App is not limited to MySqueezebox.com. banned for life is right, you need to be connected to your WiFi network, but you said you checked for that. Which model of Android device is this? There have been some htc models that had trouble with UDP broadcasts which means the server can't be automatically detected, in this case you need to use one of the 3rd party Apps that support manual configuration of the server address since the Logitech App doesn't. I know OrangeSqueeze and SqueezeCommander do, probably also some of the free ones. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96324 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Fidelizer SBT.. Why should it work?
That will usually not have been the computer's activity itself but the screen's. Old LCD displays used to still be line driven and could even be scanned from another room (you could make visible what they are showing in another room). They even developed special fonts to get around the effect for security relevant text. It's not as dramatic as with old tube monitors (where, given a somewhat radiation free environment you could even reproduce their picture over hundreds of feet) but they are still radiating quite significantly. Got much better with higher-resolution displays (due to the shift to higher frequencies) and LVDS but it's still probably more EMI then what comes out of the rest of your computer. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95644 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Open Letter to Music Pirates from NPR
Depends. For studio albums I couldn't care less about lossless since they are all mixed for mp3 these days anyway, so there's no difference. Live recordings, however, are a different issue. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Open Letter to Music Pirates from NPR
mlsstl wrote: Pippin, guess we'll just have to agree to mostly disagree regarding the impact of piracy on the music business. You seem to want to substantially discount the impact, preferring to assign blame to various aspects of corporate greed. No. That was absolutely not my point. I have no problem with greed by companies, that's their job. If they drive it too far, it's their death. All of this is called business, it's OK and it's what we all live from. There's also no question that piracy is a problem, however, it's vastly exaggerated because piracy is mainly a problem from people who otherwise would not pay anyway and the complaint is not new. The comparison with physical theft is ridiculous as are the reactions. Ridiculous but completely understandable. The record companies are trying to cash in for as long ans as much as possible. Which, again, is their job. Also, bad weather in parts of a world is also a rampant problem, yet the only thing you can do to it is to adapt to it. We are seeing a complete disruption in service business models. Not from piracy, but from a change in the value chain. Everybody has to cope with that. Try running a travel agency, a book store or a newspaper and you know what I'm talking about. What the record companies do right now (and movie industry as well as publishers start to line up), however, is to try to lobby to write laws that secure them a better position at the cost of customers, competitors and even fundamental liberty rights and even the fundamentals of the legal system, they ask to privatize it and take away the presumption of innocence because it hurts their chances to enforce their rights. Even today you have law by which they can get you punished by merely stating that you had done something bad, without real proof and you have no chance whatsoever to get a judge involved in this. And the worst thing is that they succeed in using government resources to do this. The US foreign office (in it's role as an ambassador for US content industry) is trying to force other companies into far reaching legislation that would never ever be considered in the US, in a lot of countries (Spain being an example I know about) they were successful. They do all this by means of exaggerated claims. And the above article was a very good example of that because it stated that piracy actually KILLED musicians while in one case it was clearly now, well, the whole truth. Time will tell if the music industry figures a way to live with the new reality. Of course they will. Especially music industry as a whole as opposed to only record companies. Will it be the same players? Certainly now. Some will, some will change. That's how it is with disruptive change. But molding the status quo into concrete by means of law will make everybody lose. I fully understand that they try but we must not follow that propaganda. And they are not alone, what publishers do these days is just as bad. Besides the lex-Google they are trying to push through (which is probably the most ridiculous claim I've ever seen, asking money beyond what you can get on the free market from somebody who's service you are actively ASKING to use; but the Google is big enough to defend themselves so I'm not concerned) they are trying to kill of competition by bloggers through means of law which certainly will hit the freedom of speech. Well, it's their right to try, at least they don't try to sue their customers. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Open Letter to Music Pirates from NPR
It's not piracy vs. convenience, it's also go f... yourself, there's other things I can do vs. convenience. I don't pirate stuff, but if I can't get it easily and convenient, I've got enough other things to do. And the same thing is true of others. There are more media available yet the day still only has 24h, someone has to suffer from that. The one who offers least convenience will suffer most. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Open Letter to Music Pirates from NPR
I beg to differ. It's not a good article. It's actually a very bad article. I agree with the general direction making clear that a free culture is bad for musicians and that they have to make money and that it's not OK to just pirate music but the article is full of stereotypes, false claims and bad/wrong examples. It's not true that I can get any music I want with a few clicks (legally, that is). It's true for Lady Gaga, but she has no income problem, too. But of the music I listen to and buy today (even the new one!) less than 50% is even available on iTunes. Spotify et al are a little better but they are also villains by David Lowery's measures. I'm too lazy and have too little time to hunt down stuff on file sharing or download sites so there's a lot of stuff I will only ever get through streaming services or mixes, but I WOULD buy that stuff if it was just available. The article also completely confuses author's rights with recording rights and is plain wrong in some of the legal claims it makes. The accepted norm for hudreds of years of western civilization is the artist exclusively has the right to exploit and control his/her work for a period of time. Somebody might want to discuss this with the likes of Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger and George Michael who are among those who essentially made this true - for high profile artists and not hundred of years ago but only during the last few decades and by sheer market power. But the thing that infuriates me is the example about Mark Linkous (Sparklehorse). David writes that his suicide was partly caused by a harsh financial situation caused by a lack of income from his music and directly attributes this to piracy while hinting record companies are the good guys helping musicians and guaranteeing them income. (There is no other explanation except for the fact that fans made the unethical choice to take their music without compensating these artists.) In this particular case things could not be more wrong. Sparklehorse happens to be one of the minds behind one of my favorite albums of the recent years (Dark Night of the Soul, together with Brian Burton (Dangermouse) and David Lynch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul_%28album%29 . The other example given, Vic Chesnutt, was also involved in a track of that album, btw.). It's probably his commercially most successful album but only became such after his death. And the reason for this has nothing to do with piracy, it was due to a rights dispute with EMI which delayed the release for more than a year, when it finally came out. Had that not been the case I doubt he would have been in the dire financial situation David describes. And it was the artists themselves who distributed the album freely (on their own web site) while the dispute was not settled. That was where I originally downloaded it from, for free, like probably many others, too. You can argue whether this was piracy or not but you just can't claim that this had to do with free culture, piracy or anything. Of course I don't know details about the contracts involved and I would not claim that there weren't legitimate reasons for EMI's position, and also David Lowery sure knows much more than I do about what was going on with this and maybe it was between the artists, I don't know. But to put this forward as an example of why only record companies are the good guys guaranteeing the artists a nice income and taking away any risk from them while everybody else around, Spotify, Apple and especially the customers are evil and drive them into suicide is just so ridiculous it makes me mad. No, this is NOT a good article. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Open Letter to Music Pirates from NPR
mlsstl wrote: I'm rather confused. You slam the specific Sparklehorse example and then admit the article's author probably knows much more than you about the details. I don't understand the logic of claiming this is a bad example while at the same time admitting the author almost certainly knows the facts of the situation far more clearly. My comment re the author knowing much more was about WHAT SPECIFIC issue with the record company EMI (and maybe between the artists) led to the delay. However what I DO KNOW (and what is undisputed, btw) is that it was an issue with EMI causing the delay and loss of income. And that it NOTHING to do with piracy. And all of that while the author claims that piracy kills artists while record companies are their saviors (sorry, this is NOT me exaggerating, that's what he says with his examples). Sorry, this hurts. The music business has always used the massive sales of their most popular artists to support the whole This is not true. The music industry has used the massive sales of their most popular artists to develop a marketing and distribution chain that allowed them to promote other artists from whom they made more profits. What music industry also did was develop new artists, yes. But they did not do this by subsidizing them with revenue from more popular artists - they can't because the really successful artists have way too much negotiating power, they don't earn the record companies a lot of money. What brings profit for record companies is long-term contracts with newly developed artists who profit from the marketing push and give away a greater revenue share in return. This model is indeed falling apart. But the reason isn't piracy (piracy hits pretty much all artists in the same way), the reason is that the marketing channels (the ways through which especially young people learn about music and exchange about them) have completely changed. There is no MTV anymore (ok, MTV is still around but they don't play any music anymore but do dismissed instead. Why? Because record labels now want money for the clips instead of paying them for addition to the rotation) and twitter, facebook and YouTube have taken their place. Record companies have not been able to keep up with this development. Partly, because they are slow corporate dinosaurs and because they were so focused on piracy but also because in that environment there is no real need for them. Today, you don't need a contract with record shops, and the like, you don't need the heavy upfront investments so band's managers have been able to do the marketing side themselves. It's the same dissolution of value chain thing the internet has triggered in all service businesses. And regarding that most musicians can hardly live from their music: that's always been the case. The reason is simply that most artists don't make straight business decisions into becoming a musician but because it's their calling, they dream of the fame and the chicks or simply because the music itself matters to them. In such an environment you'll always have too tough a competition for most to live. The same thing has been true 10, 20 or 100 years ago. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Master List of HD and Lossless Download Sites..
Not used it anymore for more than 15 years :) pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95132 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transcode and upsample at once?
Are you trying to use up as much bandwidth as possible or what is this good for? Upsampling 44.1 material to 96k will at best gain you nothing but more likely just degrade your sound quality. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95051 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is this a good way to go?
If by sluggish you mean slow, it's probably because the server has to create the artwork in the sizes iPeng uses. Should go away on the second use, artwork is being cached by both iPeng and the server, just don't clear amp; rescan your library too often. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94645 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is this a good way to go?
magiccarpetride wrote: Is there a way to get rid of this annoying latency of the iPeng for iPhone? So a) you are comparing different devices. The network connection characteristic could be different. How is the Logi App behaving on your iPhone? There are really only two possible reasons for a long latency: 1. iPeng was quit in the background 2. The network connection takes time to establish Network connection behavior is different between iPhone and iPad because iPad has a mch bigger battery to play around with so is not as nitpicking with conserving power. Also, you are using an outdated version of iPeng. Please try 1.5.1, it's got a newer memory management because it doesn't have to support iOS 3 anymore which can help to keep it from being completely shut down in the background. Also, since I've purchased iPeng on the iPhone, do I qualify for downloading it to my iPad without additional payment? You can download iPeng for iPhone on the iPad for free but if you want to use the iPad version you'd have to pay again. You will get a discount for the playback (on both devices) if you own both Apps, though. If you have already purchased playback you can use it on the iPad, too (for free), but you'd have to activate it in the iPhone App (on the iPad) because on the App Store you can not share the same In-App-Purchase between two Apps. Just always use the green Restore Previous Purchase button instead of the red Purchase Playback button to be on the safe side. Here are the details: http://penguinlovesmusic.de/2011/03/18/new-ipeng-versions-update-playback-change-discount-model/ pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94645 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is this a good way to go?
Sorry, that's nonsense. PlugPlayer and SqueezeCast look and act very different. In iPeng Party the menus look and work the same, except for the color scheme, you just have reduced functionality because you can only add tracks to the playlist, after all, that's the purpose of iPeng Party. But you can see the performance and the graphics quality on iPad 3, which is quite different from PlugPlayer, SqueezeCast or, say, the Logitech App. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94645 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is this a good way to go?
True. I'm always so lazy when typing on the iPhone pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94645 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is this a good way to go?
Indeed. You can also have a kind of preview on iPeng for iPad by downloading the free iPeng Party App. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94645 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Blind listening - TT3.0, HWmods and Teddy Pardo PSU
3 -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, iPeng for iPad and *New: iPeng Party, the free party App*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94418 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Blind listening - TT3.0, HWmods and Teddy Pardo PSU
Twitter slang for loving something or someone. Something in this case: your post (sorry). 3 looks like a heart lying on it's side. Actually although it got more common recently, I'd bet someone will now crawl in here and say it's already dating back to usenet times and is not at all related to Twitter -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, iPeng for iPad and *New: iPeng Party, the free party App*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94418 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;695608 Wrote: If this is the case, then why is wireless discouraged for sound quality reasons? Surely this the best way to isolate an electrically noisy computer source from the likes of a PC for example (assuming the simplicity of the SB Touch is much more electrically quieter than an all out monster gaming computer). Because some People like to bullshit around about SQ and also people always WANT to find something to optimize. It's the same type of nonsense as to decode lossless formats of the server, use specific OSs for your server or selling high-end power cables. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ADAM users unite!
Argh. Did you have to say that ;) I've got a pair of A5s which are great but too weak for my living room since I moved. I combined them with a MicroVee which is also great but has the usual subwoofer problem: the setup only works fine for a limited volume range so I have to re-adjust the volume when I either want to hear very silent or very loud music. I did already consider to move that setup to my office where I use a pair of PC speakers now which I love but which, too, are way too weak as soon as I move away from the computer and to get a pair of A7X for the living room, now you start to fuel that again... -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94100 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ADAM users unite!
Just to avoid confusion: My sub works, too. My living room is also open plus it's almost 4m (a bit more than 11 feet) tall. My problem is not to get a good sound with the A5s and the MicroVee, the problem is changing volume, I either have no bass at low volume or only bass at high volume or I have to re-adjust the sub's volume. It may also be related to the fact that I use different outputs on my Transporter for the A5s (XLR, balanced) and the sub (RCS), the impedance may be different. Maybe I should invest a bit here but it's a bit of effort to get the cabling done right if I want to use XLR for both. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94100 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
In every streaming system (digital) the music is first copied to the target, it's being delivered in packets. However, the SB doesn't have to wait for the full 15s buffer to fill, it can start to play as soon as the first decidable packet is there (depends on the codec) and will fill the buffer in the background. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
