Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: no, I think the tirnahifi ban was for trolling and the CA was for promising not to troll after the first ban and then continuing to troll, facts is facts, doncha know. Facts for facts the tirnahifi ban was because you demanded my removal. Anyway, no big loss, and I am glad you changed your license to reflect reality. But thanks for dropping back in - seems there was some unfinished business: Archimago wrote: Excellent points and discussions folks... I wonder if this is also the point at which SBGK typically bows out of these discussions. SBGK: Stay and talk if you're seriously committed to your findings. Speaking about the theory is good but it would truly be great if there is a way to discuss how you think your theories can be verified. Archimago wrote: Hi Mnyb. Yes, I agree :-). I think the tests speak for themselves in capturing all I think can be captured in a way that would encompass what we can hear... Differences beyond the core finding of the tests as far as I can tell would be inaudible. Nonetheless, I do want to hear from folks like SBGK to make sure verifiable claims are looked at. If claims are unverifiable; perhaps better yet the beliefs unfalsifiable, then I think we can say clearly we are not dealing with the scientific domain. SBGK: here's a thought. Since you have developed the software over years, maybe you can give us 2 versions. One that sounds 'good', and one 'bad' (early version? Poor compilation settings?). No messing around with bitperfect of course. Surely with all the incremental improvements, differences would be additive and at some point measurable, right? If not, then what physical characteristics do you think should be looked at / measured? Or do you believe it's just not measurable? bonze wrote: So can we take it [...] that you no longer have a squeezebox product? Archimago wrote: Have you tried to measure the sonic output from the various iterations of your program? Can you identify what component of high fidelity improves with each iteration? For example, with the response above, why do you think v69 had more clarity in physical / engineering terms? Julf wrote: So how does the speed of the render loop correlate with sound quality? Or perhaps an easier question - How is the speed of the render loop reflected in any way in the waveform coming out of the DAC? To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: Yes but have the changed sponsor i cant find the shill article about AQ cables he wrote ? who is CA's new pimp ?g Don't know - I was banned from CA after pointing out that sgbk was in violation of his own software license terms... To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Here's a table with examples of typical db(A) levels for some events, for instance fire cracker explodes at shoulder: 170 dB(A). Search for Typical dbA levels. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm There's a lot of other interesting stuff there too. For example that a non-distorted sound cannot be louder that 194dB, because that corresponds to the average air pressure. Search for How many decibels is the loudest noise?. Also don't forget that according to Fletcher-Munson you can only hear 20kHz at 120dB, which happens to be the threshold of pain. [Slightly off topic.] Best Regards, Gandhi not often enough well recorded and mastered cds *|* dbpoweramp with accuraterip *|* flac *|* fanless asrock z77e-itx intel i5-3570t *|* ubuntu 12.04.1 lts 32-bit *|* lms 7.8.0 *|* brutefirdrc 3.0 (rewv5) *|* transporter (balanced out) *|* thule ia252b *|* audio physic scorpio *|* no fancy cables. *+* also some booms. *+* harmony 525s for them all, including waking the server from s3. Gandhi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58909 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: ... Was it not some old test in the 80's where they mixed in a marching band in the least significant bits on some music track and absolutely no one could hear any difference . ... it was there... http://libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm 2008... Phil You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Phil Leigh wrote: it was there... http://libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm 2008... Phil Holy Moly! Did you hack this account or are you real? Welcome back! Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: Holy Moly! Did you hack this account or are you real? Welcome back! I am a Stroke... You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Phil Leigh wrote: I am a Stroke... Welcome back. And best wishes in your recovery. I've personally witnessed two amazing comebacks of friends/family after strokes. It took some time and hard work, but the ultimate results were amazing. Good luck! *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.9 Squeezelite *Spares:* Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 iPadAir2 (iPeng8 Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: Interesting readings Wombat - bad for your health reading too much though! Swenson commented: Interesting nobody questioned him what piece of music this was... What song? What segment with 2 backup singers? Do I or anyone else need a Regen to hear them clearly if we played the song as is on our systems? I find it interesting this reverence of claims and the lack of any demands on these purveyors of claims to either demonstrate or bring forward evidence concrete enough to observe for oneself! As for Tony Lauck: Right... Whether isolation is a problem or not, let's put that aside. But what's with this claim of -24th bit being audible-!? That's below -138dB. What DAC in this world is even capable of accurately reproducing that 24th bit for anyone to even assess whether human ears can determine the sound of that last bit? As also alluded to by others, it's bizarre to even think this last bit is important in the context of music when any recorded piece has noise levels significantly higher... Again, did anyone call him out on this claim? How did he come to this conclusion; it would certainly be useful for these people to provide some concrete rationale for these beliefs... Yet the typical refrain is that we do not know how to measure what can be heard. (I guess it never occurred to these people that what is heard is as much a function of the attention mechanism as it is the ears' acuity.) Well, you're just facing supermen. He can, at the same time, stand by a launching rocket and hear a pin dropping by the rocket LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Aaargh this is completely silly :D if tou cant hear an insulated single tone at -80dB'ish ( say -90 if your normal listening levels are completely deafening and wall ratling ) sitting in your listening position , how are you suposed to hear changes at -144 to -138 dB while music is playing with well understood masking effects . Was it not some old test in the 80's where they mixed in a marching band in the least significant bits on some music track and absolutely no one could hear any difference . What we have here is the usual myth that everything matters and everything is audible. I have nothing against technical perfection , i'm all for it :) but why the dishonesty when marketing the thing thats just sad . Bit if your core byers expect every improvement to be audible in isolation you probably get this result . What about a more down to earth approach . If i assembly a hifi system where each component is much better than our capacity to discern any flaws the combined system must in the end be darn good Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: Aaargh this is completely silly :D if tou cant hear an insulated single tone at -80dB'ish ( say -90 if your normal listening levels are completely deafening and wall ratling ) sitting in your listening position , how are you suposed to hear changes at -144 to -138 dB while music is playing with well understood masking effects . Was it not some old test in the 80's where they mixed in a marching band in the least significant bits on some music track and absolutely no one could hear any difference . What we have here is the usual myth that everything matters and everything is audible. I have nothing against technical perfection , i'm all for it :) but why the dishonesty when marketing the thing thats just sad . Bit if your core byers expect every improvement to be audible in isolation you probably get this result . What about a more down to earth approach . If i assembly a hifi system where each component is much better than our capacity to discern any flaws the combined system must in the end be darn good I know, the masking effect was just a joke (although it is very apparent in many cases), but seriously saying that he can hear in such range an notice a 1 bit difference in a 147 dB dynamic range makes no sense. With the same gain, if you hear the 1 bit, then the 24bits will kill you, even if played later and if the 24 bits don't kill you, the amp gain is such that the 1 bit, you can't hear it. Anyway, another late post that should have stayd on my computer :) LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Phil Leigh wrote: it was there... http://libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm 2008... Phil Oh the audio diff maker guys have this too :) thanks for the link , I've seen this kind of test mentioned earlier than this but this is very good everyone can download and have a try for themselfs . Welcome back and good speed with the stroke recovery . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Yes. Welcome back Phil! Godspeed on the recovery! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Don't know - I was banned from CA after pointing out that sgbk was in violation of his own software license terms... no, I think the tirnahifi ban was for trolling and the CA was for promising not to troll after the first ban and then continuing to troll, facts is facts, doncha know. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
On the topic I think I was to generous with my guesstimate about audibility at home it would be extrem to reach -90dB or -80 in the listening position -70 is a better ballpark figure with margins :) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: No matter how correct you are, there are prayers to undermine all obvious conclusions of experiments done the way Archimago does. Here JS feeds the community with what they want to hear. Maybe now that the Regen business started it becomes even more important. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-sound-20814/index53.html#post445769 This Quote may be most interesting: Once you get the reproduction very close, there are some very small changes that can make the perception say wow it is real, even though the usual measuring systems cannot distinguish any differences. Ah, yes, some people do have a vested interest in pushing foo - and computer audiophile jumped the shark long ago, pretty much when it went commercial... To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Ah, yes, some people do have a vested interest in pushing foo - and computer audiophile jumped the shark long ago, pretty much when it went commercial... Yes but have the changed sponsor i cant find the shill article about AQ cables he wrote ? who is CA's new pimp ?g Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: No matter how correct you are, there are prayers to undermine all obvious conclusions of experiments done the way Archimago does. Here JS feeds the community with what they want to hear. Maybe now that the Regen business started it becomes even more important. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-sound-20814/index53.html#post445769 This Quote may be most interesting: Once you get the reproduction very close, there are some very small changes that can make the perception say wow it is real, even though the usual measuring systems cannot distinguish any differences. Not the first time i stumbled across the -160dB number. Here in conjunction with audibilty of ethernet cables. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/ars-prepares-put-%93audiophile%94-ethernet-cables-test-las-vegas-25164/index20.html#post452046 Once Archimago will measure at these -160dB in his cryolab surrounding earth in its orbit this number simply will be highered to -190dB obviously... Interesting readings Wombat - bad for your health reading too much though! Swenson commented: The other change is hearing aspects of a recording never heard before. For example there is a recording I have listened to many times, with the regen in the path I realized there were two back up singers, without it they get smeared together enough that it just sounds like one person. When you hear this it is rather startling, you have a reaction of where did THAT come from, I've listened to this a hundred times and never heard it before. In one sense it is a very small difference in the overall presentation, in another sense it is a fairly large difference in your perception of the recording. Interesting nobody questioned him what piece of music this was... What song? What segment with 2 backup singers? Do I or anyone else need a Regen to hear them clearly if we played the song as is on our systems? I find it interesting this reverence of claims and the lack of any demands on these purveyors of claims to either demonstrate or bring forward evidence concrete enough to observe for oneself! As for Tony Lauck: The first part of the problem (and the most difficult part) is to figure out how to measure the isolation such that nothing gets by that isn't measurable. After that, then it's just a matter of straightforward engineering: logic design, circuit design, board layout, and power and packaging. This will never be accomplished if it requires subjective listening tests to see if the isolation actually works. One will need to do these tests to calibrate the required level of isolation and then one just designs the products to have a safety factor of an additional 20 or 30 dB better than the best listener. We already know that changes in the 24th bit of a 24 bit PCM file can be audible, although this does not correspond to scientifically established thesholds. These just shows that we do not know how to measure what can be heard. Right... Whether isolation is a problem or not, let's put that aside. But what's with this claim of -24th bit being audible-!? That's below -138dB. What DAC in this world is even capable of accurately reproducing that 24th bit for anyone even assess whether human ears can determine the sound of that last bit? As also alluded to by others, it's bizarre to even think this last bit is important in the context of music when any recorded piece has noise levels significantly higher... Again, did anyone call him out on this claim? How did he come to this conclusion; it would certainly be useful for these people to provide some concrete rationale for these beliefs... Yet the typical refrain is that we do not know how to measure what can be heard. (I guess it never occurred to these people that what is hear is as much a function of the attention mechanism as it is the ears' acuity.) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
No matter how correct you are, there are prayers to undermine all obvious conclusions of experiments done the way Archimago does. Here JS feeds the community with what they want to hear. Maybe now that the Regen business started it becomes even more important. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-sound-20814/index53.html#post445769 This Quote may be most interesting: Once you get the reproduction very close, there are some very small changes that can make the perception say wow it is real, even though the usual measuring systems cannot distinguish any differences. Not the first time i stumbled across the -160dB number. Here in conjunction with audibilty of ethernet cables. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/ars-prepares-put-%93audiophile%94-ethernet-cables-test-las-vegas-25164/index20.html#post452046 Once Archimago will measure at these -160dB in his cryolab surrounding earth in its orbit this number simply will be highered to -190dB obviously... Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: No matter how correct you are, there are prayers to undermine all obvious conclusions of experiments done the way Archimago does. Here JS feeds the community with what they want to hear. Maybe now that the Regen business started it becomes even more important. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-sound-20814/index53.html#post445769 This Quote may be most interesting: Once you get the reproduction very close, there are some very small changes that can make the perception say wow it is real, even though the usual measuring systems cannot distinguish any differences. Not the first time i stumbled across the -160dB number. Here in conjunction with audibilty of ethernet cables. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/ars-prepares-put-%93audiophile%94-ethernet-cables-test-las-vegas-25164/index20.html#post452046 Once Archimago will measure at these -160dB in his cryolab surrounding earth in its orbit this number simply will be highered to -190dB obviously... Yes they cryo lab won't do at -190 dB quantum level noise is present even at zero kelvin. This is getting more and more fun :) if they where right you won't even need to play any music to hear this difference . Jut the ambient noise would change drastically . They obviously have not done this simple test . while sitting in your normal listening position in your normal listening environment and having the hifi at the usual playback level . Just play some test tones at decreasing level -60 dB and downwards and I suspect at around -80 dB give or take a few dB you won't hear anything more unless you get closer to the speaker or increase the level far beyond normal listening levels . I can hear a -112dB test tone faintly buried in the noise if I press the ears against the speaker drivers and have the volume at max Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: Now that even a party pooper like Archimago can measure down to -120dB i see first people claiming audibility of distorting events must be in the -160dB range :) Hey... I know that guy! 'Here's his listening room' (http://news.discovery.com/human/life/worlds-quietest-room-will-drive-you-crazy-in-30-minutes.htm)... He of course only listens to -infinite resolution- analogue LPs in that room. Once he took 45 minutes to get the tonearm geometry right and achieved some kind of record (for masochism). Of course he was never the same afterwards! :-) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: Now that even a party pooper like Archimago can measure down to -120dB i see first people claiming audibility of distorting events must be in the -160dB range :) The word logarithm comes to my mind do they realise that dB is a logarithmic scale , suppose the noise from your own cells will swamp that :) (besides the roar from your own circulatory system ). And the inherit noise in the recordings we all have who's practical resolution is often less than 16 bit , I have recordings where you clearly can hear the noise shift as the recording engineer fade up a channel where shortly thereafter an instrument appear , some old dire straits come to my mind . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: The word logarithm comes to my mind do they realise that dB is a logarithmic scale , suppose the noise from your own cells will swamp that :) (besides the roar from your own circulatory system ). And the inherit noise in the recordings we all have who's practical resolution is often less than 16 bit , I have recordings where you clearly can hear the noise shift as the recording engineer fade up a channel where shortly thereafter an instrument appear , some old dire straits come to my mind . I know but reading at the usual places reveils more and more stupid reasoning. I really have to stop reading around to much, it is not healthy. Lately i played with some 24bit Petty remaster and a missing note of a song. While restoring i realized the noisefloor of this part pretty exactly corresponds to 12bit flat dither :) Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: I know but reading at the usual places reveils more and more stupid reasoning. I really have to stop reading around to much, it is not healthy. Lately i played with some 24bit Petty remaster and a missing note of a song. While restoring i realized the noisefloor of this part pretty exactly corresponds to 12bit flat dither :) 12bit yes with dither LP kind of resolution More logarithmic stuff to think about . At the -160dB it's going to be a chilly experience to listen . The thermal noise in passive components are higher ( atoms move you know ) so the hifi must be in a cryo freezer . And the random movement of air molecules another deafening roar so chill the air to Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: They also don't realise that archimagi have measured to a resolution greater than CD (-112dB) his low end system is thus transparent to CD resolution material , everything on A CD passes trough . So if some one heard differences in this department when listening to CD standard material ;) they have to explain by what mechanism these alleged differences enter the brain . It's obvuisly not carried by the electrical signal from the DAC and thus not by any sound wave reaching a listener . Now that even a party pooper like Archimago can measure down to -120dB i see first people claiming audibility of distorting events must be in the -160dB range :) Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
18593 +---+ |Filename: e1e934726a413b96b69081703632546d.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18593| +---+ To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: Now that all your tests show the obvious non-issue of different OSs i find it funny how people at your blog chime in thinking linux or W7 may be better nonetheless. Isn't it frustrating? They have nerver heard of Russells tempot argument :) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot If any anyone cares to believe there is a tempot orbiting between Mars an Jupiter ,they should prove it rather than sane people trying to disprove it . You simply can't disprove it,MySpace is big . They also don't realise that archimagi have measured to a resolution greater than CD (-112dB) his low end system is thus transparent to CD resolution material , everything on A CD passes trough . So if some one heard differences in this department when listening to CD standard material ;) they have to explain by what mechanism these alleged differences enter the brain . It's obvuisly not carried by the electrical signal from the DAC and thus not by any sound wave reaching a listener . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Now that all your tests show the obvious non-issue of different OSs i find it funny how people at your blog chime in thinking linux or W7 may be better nonetheless. Isn't it frustrating? Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: They also don't realise that archimagi have measured to a resolution greater than CD (-112dB) his low end system is thus transparent to CD resolution material , everything on A CD passes trough . So if some one heard differences in this department when listening to CD standard material ;) they have to explain by what mechanism these alleged differences enter the brain . It's obvuisly not carried by the electrical signal from the DAC and thus not by any sound wave reaching a listener . Ah, but anyone who has listened to Neil Young knows that the CD standard is a truly crap standard - even 8-track tape is better. :) To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: 18593 Nice, Julf. Except in the case of audiophilia, science has been in retreat and we're in the perverse and unenviable position of ending up being: -*A bunch of assholes trying to DISPROVE shit.*- :) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: Except in the case of audiophilia, science has been in retreat and we're in the perverse and unenviable position of ending up being: -*A bunch of assholes trying to DISPROVE shit.*- Because evidently audiophiles don't drink their tea out of Russell's tea pot... 18595 +---+ |Filename: russells-teapot.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18595| +---+ To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: I just recompiled mqn using vs 2015 and that made a difference to the sq, another factor to measure. Would love to see the results of your measurements. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: I actually think the ultimate in tweakability is Bug Head Emperor - MEGA tuning opportunities: 'http://orya.world.coocan.jp/bughead' (http://orya.world.coocan.jp/bughead/) Look at the description on that page and self-disclosure. Well, at least the poor guy is honest - However, I am not able to show scientific basis. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: SBGK, I don't think you ever answered the question of what methodology you use to evaluate sound quality... Some details would be interesting and useful. I've asked before and I believe a very fair question. I mainly use my earholes and feedback from people nice enough to try it and who I respect eg - here is some feedback for the vs 2015 recompiled version, of course this way of working is impossible in your world, but it seems to work, some versions are identified as improvements and some are not liked. Listened to play v65/loader v25 and play v69/loader v27. v69 is clearly better. v69 has more clearity and a fine way of presenting the music. Very nice listening. +1, was very satisfied listening to v69/v27 Now what about answering my questions to you about how you can measure something when you can't hear any differences, most people would hear a difference and then investigate why. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Would love to see the results of your measurements. Well, the render loop takes 9 uops with no port pressure or register stalls, that's the only measurement I've done recently, seems better than the previous 13 and 11 uop versions. The problem with digital is it's fairly easy to produce a noise and people think it's music, and even though it's a muddy mess people are convinced that's the best that can be achieved. I'm not saying mqn is producing music, I'm just exploring the effects of minimising the code, the whole concept of digital music is flawed and the instructions still heavily influence the sound. but these are not concerns of yours, so back to your squeezebox. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: but these are not concerns of yours, so back to your squeezebox.So can we take it from that childish dismissive comment that you no longer have a squeezebox product? LMS Version: 7.9 TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011 2x Touch, 3x SB3 bonze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6150 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: I mainly use my earholes and feedback from people nice enough to try it and who I respect It is well known that hearing involves far greater complexity than merely using one's earholes. I suspect that you need to up your game to include the functions of the most powerful organ in the body - the human brain. Please let us know when you intend to start using your brain, so that we won't have to be patient with such ignorant postings as the above. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: Yeah. Plus he admits to having some kind of mental issue and finds programming a source of comfort. That's cool. No need to stress the guy out. Indeed. But he does seem to exhibit the rather frequent combination of unverified, non-scientific miracle audiophilia and other pseudoscientific beliefs (such as the vitamin C thing). I am not going to add and some kind of mental issue to that list. :) To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: Most science was observed or theorized before actual measurements were made, so I don't think I'm being unscientific in my discoveries. Just the measurers need to step up their game and measure rather than sniping from the sidelines. The above is a truism (true, but meaningless) because being observed or theorized can pretty well cover all of the possibilities. It's also false because it forces a false dichotomy between observations and measurements when in fact they are the same thing. In short your alleged justification is meaningless. I'll bet you can confuse a lot of people with double-talk like this. ;-) arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: And the investigation would follow the scientific method. First you would verify that there really is a difference, by isolating possible other causes (such as confirmation bias and the placebo effect), and by independent verification / replication. Then you would formulate an attempt at explaining the phenomenon, and come up with testable statements about it - and make the tests, to verify your explanation. Most science was observed or theorized before actual measurements were made, so I don't think I'm being unscientific in my discoveries. Just the measurers need to step up their game and measure rather than sniping from the sidelines. the current version only plays one track at a time and people are concatenating files so they can play a whole album, would they be doing that if they didn't like the sound or they could get the same from using foobar ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
arnyk wrote: How is hearing a difference in a DBT really any different from hearing a difference in any other context? It isn't. Well, if you have drunk the cool-aid, the artificiality, forced conditions and pressure of DBT makes you less sensitive to differences - just like the bad vibrations caused by the presence of a sceptic in a room makes fairies less likely to show up. :) This effect of controls spoiling bad science is in no way restricted to audiophiles or parapsychologists - 'Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish' (http://www.nature.com/news/registered-clinical-trials-make-positive-findings-vanish-1.18181). To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: Now what about answering my questions to you about how you can measure something when you can't hear any differences, most people would hear a difference and then investigate why. Measuring differences is pretty easy. At a sufficiently microscopic level everything is changing all of the time. Ever hear of random noise? It is part of every listening experience and it is measurably constantly changing. Ever hear of the thresholds of audibility? They suggest very strongly that there can be many things that measure different but sound the same. Perceiving audible differences is also very easy. But many of those differences lack reliability. IOW the harder you work to nail them down, the more elusive they become. Your post seems to be based on the belief that people measure differences and never take one little baby step to investigate way. Of course that isn't true - we have excellent records of people measuring differences and investigating why going at least back to Helmholtz: 1821-1894. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_von_Helmholtz Perhaps this is just a problem of ignorance - ignorance on the part of people who still believe that people have been so stupid measure differences and never take one little baby step to investigate way, when in fact these matters have been under investigation for a minimum of 100s of years and many things about them are well understood. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: Now what about answering my questions to you about how you can measure something when you can't hear any differences, most people would hear a difference and then investigate why. And the investigation would follow the scientific method. First you would verify that there really is a difference, by isolating possible other causes (such as confirmation bias and the placebo effect), and by independent verification / replication. Then you would formulate an attempt at explaining the phenomenon, and come up with testable statements about it - and make the tests, to verify your explanation. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Well, at least the poor guy is honest - However, I am not able to show scientific basis. Yeah. Plus he admits to having some kind of mental issue and finds programming a source of comfort. That's cool. No need to stress the guy out. I actually saw this program a year back and noted the overwhelming tweak options in the interface! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: Well, the render loop takes 9 uops with no port pressure or register stalls, that's the only measurement I've done recently, seems better than the previous 13 and 11 uop versions. So how does the speed of the render loop correlate with sound quality? Or perhaps an easier question - How is the speed of the render loop reflected in any way in the waveform coming out of the DAC? To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: I mainly use my earholes and feedback from people nice enough to try it and who I respect eg - here is some feedback for the vs 2015 recompiled version, of course this way of working is impossible in your world, but it seems to work, some versions are identified as improvements and some are not liked. Listened to play v65/loader v25 and play v69/loader v27. v69 is clearly better. v69 has more clearity and a fine way of presenting the music. Very nice listening. +1, was very satisfied listening to v69/v27 Now what about answering my questions to you about how you can measure something when you can't hear any differences, most people would hear a difference and then investigate why. Hmmm. OK. Sure I hear things... Many things. - It's difficult at times but I believe I can hear the difference when I take the speaker grilles off. I can measure it as well. - I can hear a difference with my absorption panels. I see a difference in the measurements. - Digital Room Correction makes a *world* of difference. Likewise, I notice very significant improvements in frequency response and impulse/time domain measurements as well (results not published). - I can hear a difference between some DACs - quite easily between the AudioEngine D3 vs. AudioQuest Dragonfly for example and know which I prefer consistent with measurable accuracy differences. But in my world, every one of these things I hear, I have been able to explain so far. Many differences heard before the measurements, and the measurements providing feedback and education as to what component of sound quality changed (and whether my initial suspicion correct). Likewise I have been able to measure things I could -not -hear. For example, I didn't know there was a bug with JPlay 24/48 Kernel Streaming (as per this article) before I measured it and I presume none of the subjective listeners bothered the developers enough over the years. I could not easily hear jitter anomalies with the TosLink loopback through the Transporter even though evident when measured is another example. I guess the main difference is that in my experience, the measurement equipment appears to be significantly more sensitive. And I like the fact that both the subjective and objective results add to the knowledge of the experience. Have you tried to measure the sonic output from the various iterations of your program? Can you identify what component of high fidelity improves with each iteration? For example, with the response above, why do you think v69 had more clarity in physical / engineering terms? Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: Most science was observed or theorized before actual measurements were made, so I don't think I'm being unscientific in my discoveries. I was talking about the scientific method, so confining myself to empirical science. And you are definitely not following scientific methodology. A central concept in science and the scientific method is that it must be empirically based on the evidence of the senses. Both natural and social sciences use working hypotheses that are testable by observation and experiment. Here is a good first pointer: 'Explorable.com: Empirical Research' (https://explorable.com/empirical-research). Just the measurers need to step up their game and measure rather than sniping from the sidelines. Anyone can make claims or speculate, but if they want to be taken seriously, they have to provide evidence for their claims and a rational basis for their speculation. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and so far you have provided none. the current version only plays one track at a time and people are concatenating files so they can play a whole album, would they be doing that if they didn't like the sound or they could get the same from using foobar? 'Psychology wiki: Irrational beliefs' (http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Irrational_beliefs). To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
arnyk wrote: It's also false because it forces a false dichotomy between observations and measurements when in fact they are the same thing. I think the way SBGK uses the word observation is in the sense of acquisition of information employing the senses, while you are using it in the scientific meaning of the word. A few useful reminders on 'observation' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observation): Observations play a role in the second and fifth steps of the scientific method. However the need for reproducibility requires that observations by different observers can be comparable. Human sense impressions are subjective and qualitative making them difficult to record or compare. Theed or shared by all observers, and counting how many of the standard units are comparable to the object. Measurement reduces an observation to a number which can be recorded, and two observations which result in the same number are equal within the resolution of the process. Senses are limited, and are subject to errors in perception such as optical illusions. Scientific instruments were developed to magnify human powers of observation, such as weighing scales, clocks, telescopes, microscopes, thermometers, cameras, and tape recorders, and also translate into perceptible form events that are unobservable by human senses, such as indicator dyes, voltmeters, spectrometers, infrared cameras, oscilloscopes, interferometers, geiger counters, x-ray machines, and radio receivers. The human senses do not function like a video camcorder, impartially recording all observations. Human perception occurs by a complex, unconscious process of abstraction, in which certain details of the incoming sense data are noticed and remembered, and the rest forgotten. What is kept and what is thrown away depends on an internal model or representation of the world, called by psychologists a schema, that is built up over our entire lives. The data is fitted into this schema. Later when events are remembered, memory gaps may even be filled by plausible data the mind makes up to fit the model; this is called reconstructive memory. How much attention the various perceived data are given depends on an internal value system, which judges how important it is to the individual. Thus two people can view the same event and come away with entirely different perceptions of it, even disagreeing about simple facts. This is why eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. Human observations are biased toward confirming the observer's conscious and unconscious expectations and view of the world; we see what we expect to see. In psychology, this is called confirmation bias. Since the object of scientific research is the discovery of new phenomena, this bias can and has caused new discoveries to be overlooked. One example is the discovery of x-rays. It can also result in erroneous scientific support for widely held cultural myths, for example the scientific racism that supported ideas of racial superiority in the early 20th century. Correct scientific technique emphasizes careful recording of observations, separating experimental observations from the conclusions drawn from them, and techniques such as blind or double blind experiments, to minimize observational bias. Another bias, which has become more prevalent with the advent of big science and the large rewards of new discoveries, is bias in favor of the researcher's desired hypothesis or outcome; we see what we want to see. Called pathological science and cargo cult science, this is different from deliberate falsification of results, and can happen to good-faith researchers. Researchers with a great incentive or desire for a given outcome can misinterpret or misjudge results, or even persuade themselves they have seen something they haven't. Possible examples of mistaken discoveries caused by this bias are Martian canals, N rays, polywater, cold fusion, and perpetual motion machines. Recent decades have seen scientific scandals caused by researchers playing fast and loose with observational methods in order to get their pet theories published. This type of bias is rampant in pseudoscience, where correct scientific techniques are not followed. The main defense against this bias, besides correct research techniques, is peer review and repetition of the experiment, or the observation, by other researchers with no incentive to bias. For example, an emerging practice in the competitive field of biotechnology is to require the physical results of experiments, such as serums and tissue cultures, be made available to competing laboratories for independent testing. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile:
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: I think the way SBGK uses the word observation is in the sense of acquisition of information employing the senses, while you are using it in the scientific meaning of the word. A few useful reminders on 'observation' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observation): Absolutely not! I'm used to poorly informed people who have such confused thinking that they can't understand that using test equipment or making observations in the scientific sense is fundamentally the same as acquisition of information employing the senses, or any of the large number of common sense definitions that one can have for observation. But that doesn't mean that I see any purpose to assisting them in continuing or enhancing that confusion. For example, I mentally and sometimes even physically wince when I see a very high reading on a THD analyzer. How is hearing a difference in a DBT really any different from hearing a difference in any other context? It isn't. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Are we not making things to complicated in these cases archimago shows with two methods that the output of the dac is the same hence no need for DBT or other complex measures. The same output is the same the tiny dissimiliarities that dont make the curves overlap exactly is the random noise . Two measurement of the same thing will be similar . Except the one case with the broken 24/48 playback , there is certainly a difference . Based on prior knowledge the level of the anomaly is on to low to be heard , but in principle ? If one wants to be sure. Dbt can also be good tool when testing unknown things or stuff that are really complex to measure hard to do at home , like speakers or headphones Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Well, if you have drunk the cool-aid, the artificiality, forced conditions and pressure of DBT makes you less sensitive to differences - just like the bad vibrations caused by the presence of a sceptic in a room makes fairies less likely to show up. :) This effect of controls spoiling bad science is in no way restricted to audiophiles or parapsychologists - 'Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish' (http://www.nature.com/news/registered-clinical-trials-make-positive-findings-vanish-1.18181). Interesting link! Will have to have a read of the PLOS One paper. Excellent points and discussions folks... I wonder if this is also the point at which SBGK typically bows out of these discussions. SBGK: Stay and talk if you're seriously committed to your findings. Speaking about the theory is good but it would truly be great if there is a way to discuss how you think your theories can be verified. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: Are we not making things to complicated in these cases archimago shows with two methods that the output of the dac is the same hence no need for DBT or other complex measures. That is the whole point about the scientific method (especially post-Popper) - any scientific theory should make predictions or falsifiable statements that can be tested. We don't know what we are supposed to measure or test, as the speculations we have seen are too vague and contain no falsifiable statements to verify, apart from xxx makes an audible difference, leaving DBT as the only test method. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: Are we not making things to complicated in these cases archimago shows with two methods that the output of the dac is the same hence no need for DBT or other complex measures. The same output is the same the tiny dissimiliarities that dont make the curves overlap exactly is the random noise . Two measurement of the same thing will be similar . Except the one case with the broken 24/48 playback , there is certainly a difference . Based on prior knowledge the level of the anomaly is on to low to be heard , but in principle ? If one wants to be sure. Dbt can also be good tool when testing unknown things or stuff that are really complex to measure hard to do at home , like speakers or headphones Hi Mnyb. Yes, I agree :-). I think the tests speak for themselves in capturing all I think can be captured in a way that would encompass what we can hear... Differences beyond the core finding of the tests as far as I can test would be inaudible. Nonetheless, I do want to hear from folks like SBGK to make sure verifiable claims are looked at. If claims are unverifiable; perhaps better yet the beliefs unfalsifiable, then I think we can say clearly we are not dealing with the scientific domain. SBGK: here's a thought. Since you have developed the software over years, maybe you can give us 2 versions. One that sounds 'good', and one 'bad' (early version? Poor compilation settings?). No messing around with bitperfect of course. Surely with all the incremental improvements, differences would be additive and at some point measurable, right? Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Mnyb wrote: A very interesting part is that piece of software you tested , people testify to have all kinds of better sound experience with it. But none ever heard the only verifiably thing it's does regarding audio , bodge 24/48 ;) just like you pointed out in your blog ( not as explicit as I just did ) Maybe they start now when you told everyone about it :). The power of suggestion working against them ? :D Well if people start noticing it (24/48) let me know! I wouldn't be surprised if they just kept quiet because JPlay supporters tend to be 'true believers' and would not want their heroes to look bad or in a way admit they could not tell... Even after I told them about it 2 years ago!!! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: Nonetheless, I do want to hear from folks like SBGK to make sure verifiable claims are looked at. If claims are unverifiable; perhaps better yet the beliefs unfalsifiable, then I think we can say clearly we are not dealing with the scientific domain. Yes, that is a very under-appreciated part of science - the huge amount of tests, studies and measurements where we are already pretty sure that the results will be negative, but it still has to be done, so we can be sure. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
A very interesting part is that piece of software you tested , people testify to have all kinds of better sound experience with it. But none ever heard the only verifiably thing it's does regarding audio , bodge 24/48 ;) just like you pointed out in your blog ( not as explicit as I just did ) Maybe they start now when you told everyone about it :). The power of suggestion working against them ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
bonze wrote: Congrats! seems you got a bite on both threads :cool: Yikes! Strange how there ended up being 2 threads! Maybe if there's a moderator, there's a way to consolidate... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: Enjoy the summer folks! Congrats! seems you got a bite on both threads :cool: LMS Version: 7.9 TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011 2x Touch, 3x SB3 bonze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6150 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
SBGK wrote: I just recompiled mqn using vs 2015 and that made a difference to the sq, another factor to measure. SBGK, I don't think you ever answered the question of what methodology you use to evaluate sound quality... Some details would be interesting and useful. I actually think the ultimate in tweakability is Bug Head Emperor - MEGA tuning opportunities: 'http://orya.world.coocan.jp/bughead' (http://orya.world.coocan.jp/bughead/) Look at the description on that page and self-disclosure. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
--- Boys sorry for the double thread... Let's just chat in the other one... --- Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: I didn't really follow this since i know where it comes from :) good decision, someone will be a long to tell you what to follow. Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Wasn't the 'mqnplayer' (http://mqnplayer.blogspot.nl/) the ultimate incarnation of this silliness? are you saying you've tried it julfy ? Touch optimisations http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.co.uk/ SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Just like people will be wondering if they might not see Bigfoot again this year. Thanks for the measurements and writeup - it must be frustrating to have to keep making the measurements over and over just to conclude that the laws of physics actually still work... Actually that's why I secretly hope Win 10 is the last version and maybe we'll just have various revisions from here on... But then there could be Bigfoot next, then Nessie, then Yeti, sort of like OS X and its lineage :-). Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Just like people will be wondering if they might not see Bigfoot again this year. Thanks for the measurements and writeup - it must be frustrating to have to keep making the measurements over and over just to conclude that the laws of physics actually still work... +1 a LOT of work for this nice . And this is when actual playback is done by the computer . There is next lever of silly , sound quality differences of OS when used as squeezebox server . In this case no audio is going on the server at all as the player do the payback in the squeezebox world . I understands why you did not measure that one again , it's of limited interest there is a wider audience using the PC directly . The kind of audiophile that did this has probably abandoned squeezeboxes a while back chasing their unicorn on new pastures , audio nirvana can be behind the next hill Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Wombat wrote: This is again a good one! This makes me wonder how far this OS optimizing and the search for the perfect player got and why? Wasn't the 'mqnplayer' (http://mqnplayer.blogspot.nl/) the ultimate incarnation of this silliness? To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Julf wrote: Wasn't the 'mqnplayer' (http://mqnplayer.blogspot.nl/) the ultimate incarnation of this silliness? I didn't really follow this since i know where it comes from :) Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
This is again a good one! This makes me wonder how far this OS optimizing and the search for the perfect player got. Just plain stupid, no excuses. Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
Archimago wrote: Well folks, now that Windows 10 is released, I bet a number of folks are wondering *yet again* whether the OS will make things sound better... Just like people will be wondering if they might not see Bigfoot again this year. Thanks for the measurements and writeup - it must be frustrating to have to keep making the measurements over and over just to conclude that the laws of physics actually still work... To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Audiophile Sound and Operating Systems. (Windows 8.1, Windows 10...)
The 2015 vintage wine is out and after 2 bottles, I can tell that combined with Win10, it makes sound better :) PS: Archimango, this is really said with a friendly spirit, not agressive or viciously sarcastic, but I couldn't help, sorry LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=104136 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
