[Aus-soaring] rating pilots
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:40:01 +1000, Mike Borgelt wrote: Quite likely the person may simply have not had the personal qualities necessary to be a safe pilot and that this failed to be recognised during training. And hence an 'on merit' rating system for anything from solo to conversion to type to Io catches that while any prescriptive system - hours, other rating, commercial hire interest, etc. puts opaqueness in the way ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
Further to this email, I have just remembered the last quite experienced pilot that I pulled the bung on at 400'. He attempted to turn with the nose above the horizon which I stopped, and then proceeeded to become indecisive and I had to take over as the option he was going to take could have put us into the fence at the end of the cross-strip. His pre-take-off checks were impeccable but when it came to the real thing, he was out of his depth. At the subsequent de-briefing when I asked him why he was going to turn with the nose above the horizon, he said: but we had 60 knots on the clock!. He had forgotten about inertia and airspeed indicator lag and that a steep turn in a climbing vector can quickly become a stall turn if not executed precisely. The last time he had performed a low level rope break was seven (7) years previously. We had another normal check flight that he passed, and he thanked me for waking him up from his complacency. PeterS Peter Stephenson wrote: I agree with MT as well. As an instructor, I only ever pull the bung if I am absolutely confident that I can handle the emergency if the student/pilot-on-check stuffs up or takes a poor option. My hand is almost on the stick to prevent an error. It is never below 300' AGL unless I can land ahead. Prior to being an instructor, I was always disappointed when the annual check instructor did *not* pull a low level release because I was confident that I could do them but was never tested. I have had an AEI ask to practice a 300' release in a strong wind, as he felt the same. Recently at Caboolture we had a power pilot who lost power on take off at a very low height and he just pushed the nose forward and pancaked his beautifully restored aircraft. Obviously he had a habit of hanging on the prop on take off and learned the hard way. PeterS Texler, Michael wrote: I doubt there is any training value at all in 400 to 500 feet. I believe that there is some training value in such a flight: The ability to fly and manoevure confidently at low level without getting ground fright. (i.e. if I had the option to do a low level circuit for a safe landing on field after a rope break, that would my first option). Also low level flight is experience with ridge flying too. Also in still wind conditions, a 180 degree turn can be considered. Such manoevures need to be demonstrated at altitude, i.e. demonstrate a 180 degree change of heading with minimum height loss, in a Grob G103, banked at 60 degrees, 60 knots airspeed, in still air, height loss in a 180 degree turn is 150', with a diameter of the turn of 120m Obviously needs to be done with a proper briefing, exercise at altitude, exercise at 400' to 500' AGL, post flight de-brief. The plane doesn't know how far it is above the ground. My 2.2c worth ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Who trained who (sic - with apologies to AC/DC)
At 03:14 PM 10/09/2008, you wrote: I made a similar comment as Mike's one above about him just being an amateur pushing around a professional and one of the audience firmly put me in my place by pointing out that amateur did not equal incompetence. I agree but I actually said inadequately trained amateur which is different. We seem to have an outbreak of reading incomprehension. I can just see the AMA or College of GPs's or whatever enthusiastically embracing the concept of amateurs giving medical advice. Oh, look, there's a whole squadron of pigs flying by in formation! Our system of Instructor panels meeting regularly and having students taught by multiple instructors reading from the same page engenders a constant monitoring of each other's performance as instructors through feed back from students. I'm sure you *think* it does, but the record isn't good is it? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
At 07:08 AM 11/09/2008, you wrote: Further to this email, I have just remembered the last quite experienced pilot that I pulled the bung on at 400'. He attempted to turn with the nose above the horizon which I stopped, and then proceeeded to become indecisive and I had to take over as the option he was going to take could have put us into the fence at the end of the cross-strip. His pre-take-off checks were impeccable but when it came to the real thing, he was out of his depth. At the subsequent de-briefing when I asked him why he was going to turn with the nose above the horizon, he said: but we had 60 knots on the clock!. He had forgotten about inertia and airspeed indicator lag and that a steep turn in a climbing vector can quickly become a stall turn if not executed precisely. The last time he had performed a low level rope break was seven (7) years previously. We had another normal check flight that he passed, and he thanked me for waking him up from his complacency. PeterS Well then again maybe he had a plan which you stuffed up. I'd have told you to fly the damn thing yourself. Maybe he just went along to get along and you are delusional. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
At 03:02 PM 8/09/2008, you wrote: Such manoevures need to be demonstrated at altitude, i.e. demonstrate a 180 degree change of heading with minimum height loss, in a Grob G103, banked at 60 degrees, 60 knots airspeed, in still air, height loss in a 180 degree turn is 150', with a diameter of the turn of 120m Why the 60 degrees bank for minimum height loss? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
Why the 60 degrees bank for minimum height loss? Strictly you are correct, for minimum height loss you would have zero angle of bank, but the you would be able to get around. The 60 degree bank provides you with a smaller turn radius, it is a compromise between height loss and getting the aircraft back around. I will do the maths for it. winmail.dat___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
To be subjective, the maths need to be done AT 400ft and counting !! Col Texler, Michael wrote: Why the 60 degrees bank for minimum height loss? Strictly you are correct, for minimum height loss you would have zero angle of bank, but the you would be able to get around. The 60 degree bank provides you with a smaller turn radius, it is a compromise between height loss and getting the aircraft back around. I will do the maths for it. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
Michael If your still doing the maths the ambulance has arrived, and the police are ringing the relatives ! The aircraft will be off line for a while Cheers Col Colin Collyer wrote: To be subjective, the maths need to be done AT 400ft and counting !! Col Texler, Michael wrote: Why the 60 degrees bank for minimum height loss? Strictly you are correct, for minimum height loss you would have zero angle of bank, but the you would be able to get around. The 60 degree bank provides you with a smaller turn radius, it is a compromise between height loss and getting the aircraft back around. I will do the maths for it. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight Energy management is what is being demonstrated. Any instructor / experienced pilot knows that. right? The instructor is there to ensure that the non-manoeuvring area is not entered etc and that the 'student' follows his/her pre determined plan (at least the basis of it), as well as determining if the pilot is maintaining co-ordinated flight throughout whilst 'under pressure'. 400' is not the place to think of numerous options and have a debate with yourself which one you should use. I have found it amazing the number of pilots who do not follow their 'plan' once presented with a launch failure. (Pre launch check is a good place to do 'the maths' Michael mentioned) 400' simulated launch failure, 100' over the finish line, first time 10km from the airfield at 1500'. All nice scenarios that most thinking people would like to have demonstrated to them before they have to work it out for themselves. There is at least one pilot, who on his first solo had a real launch failure and was pleased he knew what to do. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Colin Collyer Sent: Thursday, 11 September 2008 10:15 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight To be subjective, the maths need to be done AT 400ft and counting !! Col Texler, Michael wrote: Why the 60 degrees bank for minimum height loss? Strictly you are correct, for minimum height loss you would have zero angle of bank, but the you would be able to get around. The 60 degree bank provides you with a smaller turn radius, it is a compromise between height loss and getting the aircraft back around. I will do the maths for it. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Maths and rope breaks
I was by no way suggesting that one does the maths whilst in flight. It is used as the justification for performing such manoevures! Ok, radius of turn is given by R=V*V/(g*tan(bank)) R is radius in metres V is given in metres per second g is acceleration due gravity = 9.81 m/s/s Bank = angle of bank (AOB) in degrees (0=level) To convert knots to metres per second use: Airspeed in knots * 0.515 =metres/second. Given an example sink rate (i.e Bergfalke IV) at zero angle of bank at 60 KIAS as -3m/s (almost 600fpm down), making an approximation that the sink rate for a particular angle of bank is = 1/cos(bank). So at 30 degree AOB, the sink rate is -3.5m/s At 45 degree AOB, the sink rate is -4.2m/s At 60 degree AOB, the sink rate is -6 Hence pluging in values: At an airspeed of 60 knots AOB = 30, radius of turn is 552 feet = circling diameter of 336 metres AOB 45, radius = 319 feet, = circling diameter of 194 metres AOB 60, radius = 184 feet, = circling diameter of 112 metres The distance to travel half way around these circels (180 degree turn) is pi * diameter, time required to go the distance is distance travelled / airspeed AOB=30, distance=529m, time required=17secs, height loss (at sink of 3.5m/s) = 194 feet, diameter 336m AOB=45, distance=305m, time required=10secs, height loss (at sink of 4.2m/s) = 137 feet, diameter 194m AOB=60, distance=176m, time required=6secs, height loss (at sink of 6m/s) = 112 feet, diameter 112m Remember that the wider the diameter of the turn, you will have to turn through more than 180 degrees to get back to the strip, because the shallower turn will carry you further away from the airfield. These figures are for still air, add at least another 60ft to the height loss to allow for the surprise factor (i.e. in the 5-6seconds after the rope break, allowing for reaction times, and time to stabilise speed before turning). That is your level sink rate is 600fpm (i.e. 10 feet per second down), hence over 6 seconds, you would descend 60 feet). I will let people go figure what course of action they would decide. I sincerely hope that people have this all thought through when they do their pre-take-off checks, always(hint: it is under O for outside, obtacles and options). I have my flame suit on, and I am prepared for feedback re the maths ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
Mike Borgelt wrote: At 07:08 AM 11/09/2008, you wrote: Further to this email, I have just remembered the last quite experienced pilot that I pulled the bung on at 400'. He attempted to turn with the nose above the horizon which I stopped, and then proceeeded to become indecisive and I had to take over as the option he was going to take could have put us into the fence at the end of the cross-strip. His pre-take-off checks were impeccable but when it came to the real thing, he was out of his depth. At the subsequent de-briefing when I asked him why he was going to turn with the nose above the horizon, he said: but we had 60 knots on the clock!. He had forgotten about inertia and airspeed indicator lag and that a steep turn in a climbing vector can quickly become a stall turn if not executed precisely. The last time he had performed a low level rope break was seven (7) years previously. We had another normal check flight that he passed, and he thanked me for waking him up from his complacency. PeterS Well then again maybe he had a plan which you stuffed up. I'd have told you to fly the damn thing yourself. Maybe he just went along to get along and you are delusional. Mike No he did not have a plan as I asked him more than twice what he was planning to do and only when I was out of my comfort zone did I take over. PeterS ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Simulator at GFA seminar - website
Hi All As many of you will know, I featured the Sim at the GFA seminar with a good response. Thanks for all the positive comments! A lot of people didn't know about the web site so appologies for repeating myself: http://tomsglidersim.blogspot.com/ Tried a mock up of the curved projection screen today with good results (photos are up). Can't wait to see the real thing! Cheers Tom___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Maths and rope breaks
Hey Michael I was just being smart, suggesting that instinct should be inbuilt... maths only for those that like figures. Having said that, your maths is interesting... Imagine this, at the end of the 180 turn, if (but its not ) still at 60 deg bank, the wingtip is going to be about 300 ft away from the ground.. That should get them out of the club house to watch And a 180 only gets you going the other way, still over the next door paddock. If you were to use a procedure turn to get you lined up, you can add another 2 X 90 deg turns, and a roll of 120 deg. Youv'e really got their attention now ! Pulling the bung at 400 ft.. not much safety space And no, I don't know how to teach it realistically Cheers Col Texler, Michael wrote: I was by no way suggesting that one does the maths whilst in flight. It is used as the justification for performing such manoevures! Ok, radius of turn is given by R=V*V/(g*tan(bank)) R is radius in metres V is given in metres per second g is acceleration due gravity = 9.81 m/s/s Bank = angle of bank (AOB) in degrees (0=level) To convert knots to metres per second use: Airspeed in knots * 0.515 =metres/second. Given an example sink rate (i.e Bergfalke IV) at zero angle of bank at 60 KIAS as -3m/s (almost 600fpm down), making an approximation that the sink rate for a particular angle of bank is = 1/cos(bank). So at 30 degree AOB, the sink rate is -3.5m/s At 45 degree AOB, the sink rate is -4.2m/s At 60 degree AOB, the sink rate is -6 Hence pluging in values: At an airspeed of 60 knots AOB = 30, radius of turn is 552 feet = circling diameter of 336 metres AOB 45, radius = 319 feet, = circling diameter of 194 metres AOB 60, radius = 184 feet, = circling diameter of 112 metres The distance to travel half way around these circels (180 degree turn) is pi * diameter, time required to go the distance is distance travelled / airspeed AOB=30, distance=529m, time required=17secs, height loss (at sink of 3.5m/s) = 194 feet, diameter 336m AOB=45, distance=305m, time required=10secs, height loss (at sink of 4.2m/s) = 137 feet, diameter 194m AOB=60, distance=176m, time required=6secs, height loss (at sink of 6m/s) = 112 feet, diameter 112m Remember that the wider the diameter of the turn, you will have to turn through more than 180 degrees to get back to the strip, because the shallower turn will carry you further away from the airfield. These figures are for still air, add at least another 60ft to the height loss to allow for the surprise factor (i.e. in the 5-6seconds after the rope break, allowing for reaction times, and time to stabilise speed before turning). That is your level sink rate is 600fpm (i.e. 10 feet per second down), hence over 6 seconds, you would descend 60 feet). I will let people go figure what course of action they would decide. I sincerely hope that people have this all thought through when they do their pre-take-off checks, always(hint: it is under O for outside, obtacles and options). I have my flame suit on, and I am prepared for feedback re the maths ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Maths and rope breaks
Could teach it in a Simulator :-) *plug plug* - Original Message - From: Colin Collyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Maths and rope breaks Hey Michael I was just being smart, suggesting that instinct should be inbuilt... maths only for those that like figures. Having said that, your maths is interesting... Imagine this, at the end of the 180 turn, if (but its not ) still at 60 deg bank, the wingtip is going to be about 300 ft away from the ground.. That should get them out of the club house to watch And a 180 only gets you going the other way, still over the next door paddock. If you were to use a procedure turn to get you lined up, you can add another 2 X 90 deg turns, and a roll of 120 deg. Youv'e really got their attention now ! Pulling the bung at 400 ft.. not much safety space And no, I don't know how to teach it realistically Cheers Col Texler, Michael wrote: I was by no way suggesting that one does the maths whilst in flight. It is used as the justification for performing such manoevures! Ok, radius of turn is given by R=V*V/(g*tan(bank)) R is radius in metres V is given in metres per second g is acceleration due gravity = 9.81 m/s/s Bank = angle of bank (AOB) in degrees (0=level) To convert knots to metres per second use: Airspeed in knots * 0.515 =metres/second. Given an example sink rate (i.e Bergfalke IV) at zero angle of bank at 60 KIAS as -3m/s (almost 600fpm down), making an approximation that the sink rate for a particular angle of bank is = 1/cos(bank). So at 30 degree AOB, the sink rate is -3.5m/s At 45 degree AOB, the sink rate is -4.2m/s At 60 degree AOB, the sink rate is -6 Hence pluging in values: At an airspeed of 60 knots AOB = 30, radius of turn is 552 feet = circling diameter of 336 metres AOB 45, radius = 319 feet, = circling diameter of 194 metres AOB 60, radius = 184 feet, = circling diameter of 112 metres The distance to travel half way around these circels (180 degree turn) is pi * diameter, time required to go the distance is distance travelled / airspeed AOB=30, distance=529m, time required=17secs, height loss (at sink of 3.5m/s) = 194 feet, diameter 336m AOB=45, distance=305m, time required=10secs, height loss (at sink of 4.2m/s) = 137 feet, diameter 194m AOB=60, distance=176m, time required=6secs, height loss (at sink of 6m/s) = 112 feet, diameter 112m Remember that the wider the diameter of the turn, you will have to turn through more than 180 degrees to get back to the strip, because the shallower turn will carry you further away from the airfield. These figures are for still air, add at least another 60ft to the height loss to allow for the surprise factor (i.e. in the 5-6seconds after the rope break, allowing for reaction times, and time to stabilise speed before turning). That is your level sink rate is 600fpm (i.e. 10 feet per second down), hence over 6 seconds, you would descend 60 feet). I will let people go figure what course of action they would decide. I sincerely hope that people have this all thought through when they do their pre-take-off checks, always(hint: it is under O for outside, obtacles and options). I have my flame suit on, and I am prepared for feedback re the maths ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Training Value of 400 to 500 AGL flight
If the GFA accepts, mandates, hints at or even vaguely accepts that 60 degree banks at low level/half circuit height are the way to go when turning back from a rope break, I predict that the accident rate will soar (pardon the pun) with spiralling-in being the new buzzword and more than half of 'em will be Instructors ... but the value of any in-tact sailplanes will rise, so it won't all be bad.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Maths and rope breaks
On a parallel note... I always loved the bit of the C Certificate which requires you to show an entry into and recovery from a spin - that can be viewed from the glider or the ground. Wo while watching, the instructor will probably not offer a C- Certificate from the student who can't recover from the spin. Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Maths and rope breaks
Michael, I'm sure Anthony thinks his Bergie goes better than that. You have also not shown that 60 degrees is a minimum height loss just lower than 30 and 45 degrees. I take it you aren't a fan of a quick pull to vertical, stall turn and recover from dive going in the opposite direction with minimum offset? Thre's the sound of crickets chirping here from the instructors who were vocal about doing low altitude practice rope breaks. Surely somebody will be brave enough to give us an answer? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Unsubscribe
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Maths and rope breaks
Hey Mike A stall turn from level flight at 'normal' speed.. Ill come outside and watch that. In aero modeling, we'd bring a plastic bag for the bits too ! Cheers Col Mike Borgelt wrote: Michael, I'm sure Anthony thinks his Bergie goes better than that. You have also not shown that 60 degrees is a minimum height loss just lower than 30 and 45 degrees. I take it you aren't a fan of a quick pull to vertical, stall turn and recover from dive going in the opposite direction with minimum offset? Thre's the sound of crickets chirping here from the instructors who were vocal about doing low altitude practice rope breaks. Surely somebody will be brave enough to give us an answer? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Maths and rope breaks
I take it you aren't a fan of a quick pull to vertical, stall turn and recover from dive going in the opposite direction with minimum offset? Of course, that is the best way to obtain the maximum benefit from dynamic soaring. Kevin ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
