Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won't be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
I have a British gliding licence. I wonder if that will count? The German LBA accepted the British licence to fly in Germany! Michael Scutter, Education Training Consultant, Email: michael_scut...@yahoo.com.au Mobile: 0417822330 (Int +614178223300) skype://michaelscutter I don't say anything here that I would not say to your face. From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
On 18/05/2012, at 11:56 AM, Texler, Michael wrote: How comfortable people feel about glider pilots flying with self declared fitness to fly can be another topic for discussion! Sometimes, in the rush toward having a rule to satisfy every situation, we sometimes tend to forget that for many (a majority?) of the 2000 sailplaners across Australia are just flying for fun for themselves. They risk themselves (having had that conversation no doubt with loved ones) often in a sailplane they own and so the question has to be asked what is achieved by grandma nanny having a rule for every situation when in the end each glider pilot chooses to fly and takes the consequences of that choice on themselves. (A quite different topic is hiring a glider to someone else, flying more than one in the cockpit, etc.) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Any moving vehicle carries with it the responsibility to remain in control - your medical condition puts others potentially at risk if it means your no-longer-piloted glider crashes into someone else or their property. Hardly a nanny-state rule, just common sense surely! Richard McLean From: emilis prelgauskas emi...@emilis.sa.on.net To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 2:59 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness On 18/05/2012, at 11:56 AM, Texler, Michael wrote: How comfortable people feel about glider pilots flying with self declared fitness to fly can be another topic for discussion! Sometimes, in the rush toward having a rule to satisfy every situation, we sometimes tend to forget that for many (a majority?) of the 2000 sailplaners across Australia are just flying for fun for themselves. They risk themselves (having had that conversation no doubt with loved ones) often in a sailplane they own and so the question has to be asked what is achieved by grandma nanny having a rule for every situation when in the end each glider pilot chooses to fly and takes the consequences of that choice on themselves. (A quite different topic is hiring a glider to someone else, flying more than one in the cockpit, etc.) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:10:58AM -0700, McLean Richard wrote: Any moving vehicle carries with it the responsibility to remain in control - your medical condition puts others potentially at risk if it means your no-longer-piloted glider crashes into someone else or their property. Hardly a nanny-state rule, just common sense surely! So you're saying it's no different from driving, then? - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
And if this comes to pass I hope CASA uses the word 'licence' on it's document rather than 'certificate' . They seem to alternate between the two words. You would want to be able to say you have a licence which is understandable and acceptable to most enquirers. Having to explain 'certificate' would be as bad as having to explain the current situation which is very tedious. Most seem to lie and say they have a licence as it is easier. - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won't be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 05:21:29PM +1000, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: And if this comes to pass I hope CASA uses the word 'licence' on it's document rather than 'certificate' . They seem to alternate between the two words. Fetishism about a license is a bit of an Australianism. The Americans call theirs a pilot certificate, and it's accepted everywhere. Doesn't matter what it's called, as long as it meets ICAO requirements. - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Yes, Mark it is an 'Australianism'. I agree. Being asked is an agony it would be nice to remove truthfully with one word. The explanation is nearly as bad as for 'what happens if the wind stops'. :-( Anyway Oz has PPL CPL etc., so why not GPL for uniformity. - Original Message - From: Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc: GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 05:21:29PM +1000, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: And if this comes to pass I hope CASA uses the word 'licence' on it's document rather than 'certificate' . They seem to alternate between the two words. Fetishism about a license is a bit of an Australianism. The Americans call theirs a pilot certificate, and it's accepted everywhere. Doesn't matter what it's called, as long as it meets ICAO requirements. - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
I believe that a higher vision standard is warranted for a pilot, as opposed to a car driver. My point was really that arguing for a lower medical standard because you choose to fly a single seat glider is not totally logical. From: McLean Richard richardmcl...@yahoo.com.au To: aussoaring aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness I suppose so Mark. The risks are infinitely less I suppose, but they still exist. I'd be pretty pissed off if my loved ones were killed by a glider with an incapacitated or semi-blind pilot. No doubt forums would then be full of people whinging that they had allowed such a thing to happen! From: Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org To: McLean Richard richardmcl...@yahoo.com.au; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:10:58AM -0700, McLean Richard wrote: Any moving vehicle carries with it the responsibility to remain in control - your medical condition puts others potentially at risk if it means your no-longer-piloted glider crashes into someone else or their property. Hardly a nanny-state rule, just common sense surely! So you're saying it's no different from driving, then? - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness, some observations
Some observations. of the 2000 sailplaners across Australia are just flying for fun for themselves. They risk themselves (having had that conversation no doubt with loved ones) often in a sailplane they own Fair enough if the activity doesn't hurt anyone else. I guess to paraphrase, If a tree falls in a forest, does anybody hear it? We using someone else's glider, or carrying other non-pilots, flying over a township etc. it would seem prudent (as it is a legal requirement) to be fit to fly So you're saying it's no different from driving, then? That's if one is prepared to accept the risk of a healthy driver suddenly becoming incapacitated by a de-novo (new onset) medical event and causing the death/injury of another road user. This argument is used by people to counter regular health checks for drivers (i.e. there will be always someone who slips through the net so why bother). Nevertheless health checks can hopefully identify and treat those with health problems to lessen the risk of them becoming incapacitated. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
One of the nice things about an Australia wide discussion forum (admittedly with a small percentage of sailplaners on it) is that we get to gauge the spread of views (inevitably filling the spectrum). Where Richard I differ is probably in that I've been around a long time and have seen this conversation before - - in the 1950s when Philip Wills headed the view as a result of the accident rates between self declared and medical declared pilots being shown to be the same - in the 1970s when there was the 'we're all gonna die' in the ultralights (now LSA) conversation The 'rules for everyone' approach has the unfortunate consequence of limiting people (and airframes) out of the recreational flying field. hint - GFA member numbers and numbers of 'one off', 'experimental' and 'homebuilt' airframes today vs 10, 20, 30 years past. After 60 years of having such airframes and independent pilots, I think we have enough of a data set to eliminate that worry about 'it'll fall on my head' . On 18/05/2012, at 5:00 PM, McLean Richard wrote: I suppose so Mark. The risks are infinitely less I suppose, but they still exist. I'd be pretty pissed off if my loved ones were killed by a glider with an incapacitated or semi-blind pilot. No doubt forums would then be full of people whinging that they had allowed such a thing to happen! From: Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org To: McLean Richard richardmcl...@yahoo.com.au; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness So you're saying it's no different from driving, then? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:10:58AM -0700, McLean Richard wrote: Any moving vehicle carries with it the responsibility to remain in control - your medical condition puts others potentially at risk if it means your no-longer-piloted glider crashes into someone else or their property. Hardly a nanny-state rule, just common sense surely! ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
I wonder what statistical evidence there is for the added safety value of the Class 2 Medical. Let's also not forget that glider pilots are aging (like their aircraft), so statistically your chance of developing a medical health issue is increased just by virtue of being around longer. Diabetes, high blood pressure can be silently doing you damage. Many chronic medical problems can be better managed when they are diagnosed early, so aviation medicals aside, everyone should have a family GP and visit them once a year for a health check (even the young folk). Pee in a jar, get your blood pressure checked, have your blood glucose and lipids checked. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Sorry, that does not answer the question. Where is the evidence that pilots with a Class 2 medical are safer? Cheers /Tim/ /tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare/ On 18/05/2012 18:16, Texler, Michael wrote: I wonder what statistical evidence there is for the added safety value of the Class 2 Medical. Let's also not forget that glider pilots are aging (like their aircraft), so statistically your chance of developing a medical health issue is increased just by virtue of being around longer. Diabetes, high blood pressure can be silently doing you damage. Many chronic medical problems can be better managed when they are diagnosed early, so aviation medicals aside, everyone should have a family GP and visit them once a year for a health check (even the young folk). Pee in a jar, get your blood pressure checked, have your blood glucose and lipids checked. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Tim, I don't know about safer but I can name some pilots who I don't think would pass a medical. I have instructed Kerrie to sue and require testing of these pilots should I be killed in a mid-air with them. Tom From: Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness Sorry, that does not answer the question. Where is the evidence that pilots with a Class 2 medical are safer? Untitled Document Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 18/05/2012 18:16, Texler, Michael wrote: I wonder what statistical evidence there is for the added safety value of the Class 2 Medical. Let's also not forget that glider pilots are aging (like their aircraft), so statistically your chance of developing a medical health issue is increased just by virtue of being around longer. Diabetes, high blood pressure can be silently doing you damage. Many chronic medical problems can be better managed when they are diagnosed early, so aviation medicals aside, everyone should have a family GP and visit them once a year for a health check (even the young folk). Pee in a jar, get your blood pressure checked, have your blood glucose and lipids checked. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
No. From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Why? - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence No. -- From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Untitled DocumentThe regs self declaration form uses the words to the best of my knowledge. What about the blokes who are known never to go to the Doctor and what about the blokes who do, if they thought they would be stopped flying, would just lie. - Original Message - From: Tim Shirley To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness Sorry, that does not answer the question. Where is the evidence that pilots with a Class 2 medical are safer? Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 18/05/2012 18:16, Texler, Michael wrote: I wonder what statistical evidence there is for the added safety value of the Class 2 Medical. Let's also not forget that glider pilots are aging (like their aircraft), so statistically your chance of developing a medical health issue is increased just by virtue of being around longer. Diabetes, high blood pressure can be silently doing you damage. Many chronic medical problems can be better managed when they are diagnosed early, so aviation medicals aside, everyone should have a family GP and visit them once a year for a health check (even the young folk). Pee in a jar, get your blood pressure checked, have your blood glucose and lipids checked. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Because your little green book means nothing! The GPC on the other hand :] Tom From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: tom claffey to...@yahoo.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Why? - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence No. From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Covers it nicely It's possible to have a medical condition that should preclude you from driving and pass a Class 2 medical - you have to answer NO to a few questions you shouldn't, but you will never be caught unless you have an accident where this was a factor. Passing this medical is like passing the driving test - you don't need to know how to drive, just how to pass. Meanwhile, you are seeing a GP and specialist to manage that condition. Matt On 18/05/2012, at 18:28 , tom claffey wrote: Tim, I don't know about safer but I can name some pilots who I don't think would pass a medical. I have instructed Kerrie to sue and require testing of these pilots should I be killed in a mid-air with them. Tom From: Tim Shirley tshir...@internode.on.net To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness Sorry, that does not answer the question. Where is the evidence that pilots with a Class 2 medical are safer? Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 18/05/2012 18:16, Texler, Michael wrote: I wonder what statistical evidence there is for the added safety value of the Class 2 Medical. Let's also not forget that glider pilots are aging (like their aircraft), so statistically your chance of developing a medical health issue is increased just by virtue of being around longer. Diabetes, high blood pressure can be silently doing you damage. Many chronic medical problems can be better managed when they are diagnosed early, so aviation medicals aside, everyone should have a family GP and visit them once a year for a health check (even the young folk). Pee in a jar, get your blood pressure checked, have your blood glucose and lipids checked. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Again why? And if you are correct that is disappointing. - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Because your little green book means nothing! The GPC on the other hand :] Tom -- From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: tom claffey to...@yahoo.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Why? - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence No. From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Hahnweide comp
Not for the 23M super-ship though! Tom From: Adam Woolley aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Hahnweide comp Another good day for Schempp-Hirth, winning all 5 classes again :) WPP On 2012-05-14 00:32:18 + Adam Woolley aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com wrote: 1st day - miserable. 2nd day - epic! Congrats to Mak Ichakawa Andy Smith on a top first day result, keep it up guys :) STD Class Day Winner: Discus 2ax 15m Class Day Winner: Ventus 2ax 18m Class Day Winner: Ventus 2axcJ Two-Seater Day Winner: Arcus M Open Class Day Winner: Nimbus 4, tied with something else... - Sent from mBox Mail on my iPad http://www.fluentfactory.com/mboxmail On 2012-05-12 04:27:30 + C K fibremi...@gmail.com wrote: For those interested, the Hahnweide competition has started today; http://wettbewerb.wolf-hirth.de/index.php Tasks and results are under the menu Aufgaben/Wertung Chris ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Hahnweide comp
It *is* flying empty though! Chris On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:41 PM, tom claffey to...@yahoo.com wrote: Not for the 23M super-ship though! Tom ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Hahnweide comp
Hi Chris, that would explain it! They didn't bother putting tanks in? ;] Tom From: C K fibremi...@gmail.com To: Aus-Soaring aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Hahnweide comp It is flying empty though! Chris On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:41 PM, tom claffey to...@yahoo.com wrote: Not for the 23M super-ship though! Tom ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
No - the medical is only a snapshot of your health taken by a doctor every 12 Months; every other day we go flying we make a self declaration of our personal fitness to fly. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 On 18/05/2012, at 18:39, Texler, Michael michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.au wrote: Sorry, that does not answer the question. Where is the evidence that pilots with a Class 2 medical are safer? Fair enough. Emilis alluded to data to support the converse showing that there was no difference to the accident rate between self reported and medically endorsed pilots. It would be interesting to see that report. As a start (anecdotally). From my own experience having worked in AE departments and mortuaries (even allowing for differences in sizes of the participating populations) I have seen much more injury and death from medical incapacity in motor vehicles than in aircraft pilots. In the meantime I will review the literature. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Hahnweide comp
At 06:53 PM 18/05/2012, you wrote: Hi Chris, that would explain it! They didn't bother putting tanks in? ;] Tom Yeah they did but I heard they leak. Mike From: C K fibremi...@gmail.com To: Aus-Soaring aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Hahnweide comp It is flying empty though! Chris On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:41 PM, tom claffey mailto:to...@yahoo.comto...@yahoo.com wrote: Not for the 23M super-ship though! Tom ___ Aus-soaring mailing list mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.netAus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaringhttp://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Some years ago on the RAAus chat group (before it was shut down by the executive for discussing issues embarrassing to them) this issue was raised. Somebody came up with some official numbers from the USA. Around 1% of accidents in powered aviation where the pilots had an official medical had a medical possible cause. Amongst balloon and glider pilots with self declared medicals that number was around 0.5%. Now I suspect that many glider pilots in the US actually have a power licence also and a possible reason is that glider and balloon pilots have at least twice the accident rate of power due to dumb pilot tricks so the raw numbers don't mean much. In any case medical causes aren't a very large part of aviation accidents for whatever reason. I do agree about having regular medical checks though for your own health and longevity... so you can die of dementia in a geriatric ward. Great. Maybe we should take Rumpole's advice there are no pleasures in life worth foregoing for another 5 years in the geriatric ward. The medical issue is really likely historical from an earlier era when people actually thought governments knew what they were doing (WW1 and WW2 - what were they thinking?). Private pilots were looked upon by governments as a reserve of people with militarily useful skills (Like rifle clubs). They could form an instructor cadre if nothing else. Up until at least the mid 1950s in Australia the government would subsidise a PPL for this reason. Hence the medical, somewhat akin to a military medical. When I started gliding in 1966 it was almost the end but clubs would get a subsidy for glider pilot certificates achieved. Money would go from GFA TO clubs, not the other way. This is no longer a valid consideration but the bureaucratic requirements grind on. CASA is right now seriously considering removing the medical requirements for the PPL (other than an unlimited driver's licence) for day VFR in aircraft up to 1500Kg with only one other occupant than the pilot. This brings it into line with the current RAAus requirement (they've got about as many members as there are PPLs in this country). The CEO is a proponent. This was addressed back in 2002 in the original rec licence proposal that was sabotaged by the GFA and RAAus. The medical issue was addressed in detail in that proposal including the recognition that it was worthless for accident prevention. Maybe these people should declare to their passengers that they don't hold an aviation medical - like the EXPERIMENTAL sign and the Fly in this aircraft at your own risk sign in homebuilts. As a society we try to avoid unnecessary risk to innocent 3rd parties. If you get in car you are risking the person coming at you being suddenly incapacitated and hitting you head on. If you or your loved one rides in car they are taking the same risk that the driver collapses and hits the on coming semi. Given the relative amount of driving vs flying the risks would seem to be small and society accepts these risks. The risk of doing damage to anyone else while flying seems to be much lower. It seems hardly a week goes by without a car or truck hitting a house though. Note in Queensland they no longer test vision for drivers! My optometrist is appalled. He's had people drive in and test legally blind. So maybe a driver's licence and a statement from your optometrist should be enough for flying just to protect the other airspace users although ATSB are doing their best to convince everybody that see and be seen doesn't work. Keep it up fellas and nobody will even bother looking. Bit like you have x seconds to live after entering cloud. Counter productive. Mike . At 06:16 PM 18/05/2012, you wrote: I wonder what statistical evidence there is for the added safety value of the Class 2 Medical. Let's also not forget that glider pilots are aging (like their aircraft), so statistically your chance of developing a medical health issue is increased just by virtue of being around longer. Diabetes, high blood pressure can be silently doing you damage. Many chronic medical problems can be better managed when they are diagnosed early, so aviation medicals aside, everyone should have a family GP and visit them once a year for a health check (even the young folk). Pee in a jar, get your blood pressure checked, have your blood glucose and lipids checked. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
At 07:06 PM 18/05/2012, you wrote: No - the medical is only a snapshot of your health taken by a doctor every 12 Months; every other day we go flying we make a self declaration of our personal fitness to fly. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 Correct. Except that it is 24 months for most people and 5 years for those under 40 isn't it? Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Mike, I hold a Class One. Regardless of the period between medicals hopefully we will all do a self assessment medical tomorrow morning, pass and go flying ;) SDF Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 On 18/05/2012, at 20:10, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: At 07:06 PM 18/05/2012, you wrote: No - the medical is only a snapshot of your health taken by a doctor every 12 Months; every other day we go flying we make a self declaration of our personal fitness to fly. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 Correct. Except that it is 24 months for most people and 5 years for those under 40 isn't it? Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Speaking of overstressed Blaniks
Here is the latest installment from Red Bull. http://www.spiegel.de/video/wingsuit-extremsportler-fliegen-mit-segelflugzeug-in-formation-video-1197150.html It's in German though. The title is wingsuit vs aircraft, though it is more of another formation get together. Impressive vision non the less. Chris (apologies if it's been mentioned before) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Good morning all After initiating a GFA push towards an internationally recognised gliding licence about 6 years ago I must say that I'm delighted with the outcome. Therefore I would like to take this opportunity to express my sincere appreciation to all GFA office bearers involved. Having closely followed the progress of this project I know only too well how time consuming and at times frustrating the negotiations with CASA have been. At long last we have arrived at a point where suitably qualified Australian glider pilots can obtain their GPC and exercise their previlleges in other parts of the world for as long as their medical remains valid. The outcome is even better than expected and should be celebrated by all of us. It is a triumpf of common sense and is a huge step in the right direction. I am very grateful and see no reason for playing down the achievements of our elected representatives. Kind regards from Germany Bernard Eckey ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glide ratio
Hi Tim If this effort was expended by a museum I'd be all for it Its called Sports Class.. Given the financial predicament and levels of discretionary income by the vast majority of members restoring Blaniks maybe be a commercially justifiable option. As for the work being carried out for replacement of life limited components this is an entirely normal process for extending the commercial usefulness of an Aviation asset and has been occurring for the past 50 years I really dont know why this is considered a major revelation to all n sundry in Gliding circles around the blanik just replace all the life limited components and get on with it it will drive a demand and production ramp up leading to greatly decreased costs. In commercial Aviation its typically known as a Supplemental Inspection Document (SID) program as released by the OEM. Given the low hull value of a Blanik, and STC cost its still well south of a newish Glass trainer What encouragement is there for your future? This is ab-initio training. Unless China gets interested or the existing Manufactures start adopting Mass production techniques, to significantly lower unit cost through greater volumes as opposed to the current low volume, high RD Cost niche market business models, your future planning will be in the hands of only those who can afford it. The rejection of a lot of mindless regulation will be also required here. The Blaniks will have a renaissance. John From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 9:17 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glide ratio Hi all, If this effort was expended by a museum I'd be all for it. I like to see Tiger Moths and Spitfires flying too, but I would not propose to use them for flying training or as front line fighters. Instead of putting our effort into membership, promotion and state of the art equipment, we think it is a triumph to spend heaps of money to get an obsolete glider flying again so that we can train tomorrow's pilots in it. We are obviously not planning much of a future. There must be a better way forward, even for small operations. Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 18/05/2012 09:02, Grant Davies wrote: Hhhmmm think their fix is not really a fix. Gets them off the ground again but does not extend the life. So makes for a very expensive patch job. The real fix that extends the life of the Blanik has just been completed on the first Australian Blanik extending its life out to 11,400 hrs (predominantly winch launched). Although expensive the aircraft has another 50 years in it and suites our small club as an ab-initio trainer. From my understanding the guys mentioned below had nothing to do with this. Dafydd Llewellyn's original modification was revisited and upgraded to produce a new STC. A company (ARMCOM) has spent considerable amounts of time and money to get set up to do these and offers to do them for the rest of the world as well lol. We don't do aeros aside from spins. Kindest Regards Grant Davies From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ross McLean Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 8:27 AM To: 'tom claffey'; 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glide ratio Ah yes, good point Tom. Although most of the stuff they do is low speed dives in formation with one usually inverted. The clips of their aeros are quite gentle in reality. I was actually just addressing the earlier question Aren't Blaniks grounded? ROSS From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of tom claffey Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 8:17 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glide ratio Should we all cheer because these guys find an expensive fix for a problem that probably won't affect anyone who doesn't thrash the crap out of a 40 year old glider never really intended for aeros? Tom _ From: Ross McLean ross...@bigpond.net.au To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glide ratio These guys (Blanix Aerobatic team) are not only the ones that found the original problem causing the Blanik to be grounded in the first place, they are also responsible for the development of the STC fix, which everyone who has a grounded Blanik can now choose to apply. They have designed and implemented the fix on their two Blaniks and are now legally and safely airborne again. See the (thanks to Google Translate) excerpt from their website
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Nicely said Bernard.
Now let us see how it works in practice!
{On first glance it seems very clear and straightforward, with no fine tuning
required.This seems almost too good to be true.}
Gary
- Original Message -
From: ec...@internode.on.net
To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 12:04 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Good morning all
After initiating a GFA push towards an internationally recognised gliding
licence about 6 years ago I must say that I'm
delighted with the outcome.
Therefore I would like to take this opportunity to express my sincere
appreciation to all GFA office bearers involved.
Having closely followed the progress of this project I know only too well how
time consuming and at times frustrating
the negotiations with CASA have been. At long last we have arrived at a point
where suitably qualified Australian glider
pilots can obtain their GPC and exercise their previlleges in other parts of
the world for as long as their medical remains
valid.
The outcome is even better than expected and should be celebrated by all of
us. It is a triumpf of common sense and is
a huge step in the right direction. I am very grateful and see no reason for
playing down the achievements of our elected
representatives.
Kind regards from Germany
Bernard Eckey
--
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http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___
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Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Excellent point, Stuart. Same situation as a Form 2 or pilot Flight Review. Many medically-induced aviation accidents have happened to pilots holding current medical certificates, just as there have been failures of aircraft systems after a major inspection. More points of reference from another land. The FAA are considering using the drivers licence instead of a medical for private pilots. Exercising private privileges in powered aircraft in the USA currently requires a class 3 medical, valid for 24 months. If your last medical was failed, you cannot legally make the medical statement for LSA or Glider. Similar to the 3rd class medical, pilot reviews are done every two years. A BFR in glider serves as a BFR in Single Engine, or vice versa. Jim From: Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness No - the medical is only a snapshot of your health taken by a doctor every 12 Months; every other day we go flying we make a self declaration of our personal fitness to fly. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Nimeta
Looks like the Nimeta is no more :-( http://www.schwaebische-post.de/detail-image.php?aid=615122iid=0 The pilot bailed successfully. Chris ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
I beleive that an RPL is or about to be available for flying GA aircraft up to 5700 kg with 2 POB and relaxed medical. John. - Original Message - From: Christopher Mc Donnell To: tom claffey ; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Again why? And if you are correct that is disappointing. - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Because your little green book means nothing! The GPC on the other hand :] Tom From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: tom claffey to...@yahoo.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Why? - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence No. -- From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___
[Aus-soaring] Fwd: Nimeta
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=145685 Justin Sinclair 17 Queen st. Scarborough Qld 4020 Hm 07 3885 8949 Mob 0421 061 811 Email jjsincl...@optusnet.com.au Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: From: C K fibremi...@gmail.com Date: 19 May 2012 9:20:01 AM AEST To: Aus-Soaring aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Nimeta Reply-To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Looks like the Nimeta is no more :-( http://www.schwaebische-post.de/detail-image.php?aid=615122iid=0 The pilot bailed successfully. Chris ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Excellent point, Stuart. Same situation as a Form 2 or pilot Flight Review. Maybe we need a second signature to tell us if we are healthy enough to fly?!? Kindest Regards Grant Davies From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jim Staniforth Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2012 2:19 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness Many medically-induced aviation accidents have happened to pilots holding current medical certificates, just as there have been failures of aircraft systems after a major inspection. More points of reference from another land. The FAA are considering using the drivers licence instead of a medical for private pilots. Exercising private privileges in powered aircraft in the USA currently requires a class 3 medical, valid for 24 months. If your last medical was failed, you cannot legally make the medical statement for LSA or Glider. Similar to the 3rd class medical, pilot reviews are done every two years. A BFR in glider serves as a BFR in Single Engine, or vice versa. Jim _ From: Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness No - the medical is only a snapshot of your health taken by a doctor every 12 Months; every other day we go flying we make a self declaration of our personal fitness to fly. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
John, as it is currently written the MTOW for RPL will be 1500kg, but we are in the consultation period and that could change. Some unanswered questions to date from prospective are:- what will be the status of RPL overseas if it does not require an aviation medical? and if it is accepted overseas why the higher medical requirement for the GPL? I can't think of any glider with a MTOW 1500kg or with more than 2 seats. For those of us with PPL/CPL etc is the GPL a new license like a helicopter licence or an additional group endorsement? I know the GPL fixes a problem for our members who fly O.S. but if we rush in at the first sign of a breakthrough on this front will we be left with some unwanted legacies too? Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 On 19/05/2012, at 10:52, John C johncalla...@internode.on.net wrote: I beleive that an RPL is or about to be available for flying GA aircraft up to 5700 kg with 2 POB and relaxed medical. John. - Original Message - From: Christopher Mc Donnell To: tom claffey ; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Again why? And if you are correct that is disappointing. - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Because your little green book means nothing! The GPC on the other hand :] Tom From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: tom claffey to...@yahoo.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Why? - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence No. From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit:
