Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 112, Issue 10
1. Re: FireWire fire detection wire. (DMcD) yeah but I re-iterate (against Mike's suggestion) Halon -or any other gas based retardant- will NOT put out an engine fire if the engine is extended, much less so if it is running. It will work fine if the bay doors are shut and / or there is a limited area -as Mike said, within an jet engine housing works OK- but not out in the breeze. +1 BCF only option, sorry ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 112, Issue 10
Point taken - I was thinking, I guess, in terms of my own motor glider... which has an 'always buried in the fuselage' design. Simon On 14/01/2013, at 12:43 PM, wayne carter carter1wa...@gmail.com wrote: 1. Re: FireWire fire detection wire. (DMcD) yeah but I re-iterate (against Mike's suggestion) Halon -or any other gas based retardant- will NOT put out an engine fire if the engine is extended, much less so if it is running. It will work fine if the bay doors are shut and / or there is a limited area -as Mike said, within an jet engine housing works OK- but not out in the breeze. +1 BCF only option, sorry ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 112, Issue 10
Jesus wept. By your logic, halon could never put out a fire in the open. A jet engine is basically a tube, open at both ends with a few minor obstructions called turbine and compressor blades, in the way. Once airborne there is a fair breeze blowing through it. Halon is regarded as effective which is why it is standard equipment on jet airliners for both engines and freight compartments. So how do you explain this: http://www.hartindo.net/af11e.html Seems to put out open fires quite well. It is a halon equivalent as is made clear. I couldn't get a reply from these guys unfortunately. If you have a fire that large in the engine bay things have truly got out of hand. A decent halon extinguisher system may have had a chance to prevent the tragedy with the Stemme a few years ago in Sydney. Dry powder has its problems as there are cases where you may be on the ground and have a fire on startup. You aren't in much immediate danger if you evacuate the aircraft promptly (as Carol's instructor said about startup engine fires, take steps, large and fast ones away from the aircraft). Fire suppression isn't just for saving lives, it is also to prevent economic loss. Wrecking what you put out only prevents further loss to nearby equipment. Here's a wikipedia article on fire extinguishers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_extinguisherMore than you wanted to know. I know it's wikipedia but the subject is fairly non political and the article looks sensible. Looks to me like halon is about as good as anything on general combustibles around the house and flammable liquids and gases. Same thing really as petrol doesn't burn, the vapour is what burns. The new halon replacements all seem to use at least twice as much mass for the same effect. On toxicity: The old freon refrigerant was only toxic to the extent that it displaced oxygen. There was a picture in Scientific American of a mouse walking around in a fish tank of freon liquid with oxygen dissolved in it some years ago. This a way of making people resistant to extreme g loads too. The replacement refrigerant has caused death at 4000 ppm. Mike At 12:13 PM 14/01/2013, you wrote: 1. Re: FireWire fire detection wire. (DMcD) yeah but I re-iterate (against Mike's suggestion) Halon -or any other gas based retardant- will NOT put out an engine fire if the engine is extended, much less so if it is running. It will work fine if the bay doors are shut and / or there is a limited area -as Mike said, within an jet engine housing works OK- but not out in the breeze. +1 BCF only option, sorry ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Engires fires, repent, repent, remove engine... ; -) (Warning, prepared by machines that might process humour)
Radical concept for preventing engines fires. Don't have an engine...! ;-) We fly gliders after all.. Tongue planted very firmly in cheek whilst running away to hide (again). The only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire. PS. but seriously, very interesting read regarding the various ways fire extinguishing is managed. i.e. engine retracted fire is a different beast to engine deployed fire. What is the best fire extinguishing material. Flammability of composite structures, and the like. Arguments of salvagability versus survivability. Great read, keep it coming. M.T. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Engires fires, repent, repent, remove engine... ; -) (Warning, prepared by machines that might process humour)
A goodly number of GA fires are in fact cockpit fires. We've got lots of electronics and wiring in glider cockpits nowadays and fancy batteries. Just maybe we ought to think about this some more. It is also 2013. Gliders come in two kinds, gliders and motorless gliders. Seriously, if sporting gliding had been invented say during the 1970's the concept of large, heavy motorless aircraft which required painful ground handling, winches and towplanes to get airborne at all and landed out willy nilly in a farmer's field (trespass, as the event is foreseeable and not an emergency) would rightly seem bizarre. The idea is to go soaring. Unfortunately the launching and retrieving bit is the tail wagging the dog. This may also be a root cause for gliding's unpopularity, gradual decline and eventual near extinction. It will end up an obscure activity indulged in by aging eccentrics, far from civilization and polite company. Oh wait ... Mike At 02:12 PM 14/01/2013, you wrote: Radical concept for preventing engines fires. Don't have an engine...! ;-) We fly gliders after all.. Tongue planted very firmly in cheek whilst running away to hide (again). The only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire. PS. but seriously, very interesting read regarding the various ways fire extinguishing is managed. i.e. engine retracted fire is a different beast to engine deployed fire. What is the best fire extinguishing material. Flammability of composite structures, and the like. Arguments of salvagability versus survivability. Great read, keep it coming. M.T. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] was fires etc
This sort of thing doesn't help gliding's popularity either: http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilotWT.mc_sect=ganhttp://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilotWT.mc_sect=gan Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] was fires etc
I think on reading this, the actions of the police don't inspire public confidence that they know what they are doing! But then don't believe everything you see on the internet Michael Scutter, Education Training Consultant, Email: michael_scut...@yahoo.com.au Mobile: 0417822330 (Int +614178223300) skype://michaelscutter I don't say anything here that I would not say to your face. From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] was fires etc This sort of thing doesn't help gliding's popularity either: http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2013/130110secret-no-fly-zone.html?WT.mc_id=130111epilotWT.mc_sect=gan Mike Borgelt Instruments- design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Help, my PDA caught fire.....!
A goodly number of GA fires are in fact cockpit fires. We've got lots of electronics and wiring in glider cockpits nowadays and fancy batteries. Too true. I wonder when that will start appearing in the accident reports. More likely battery fires though with the amount of hardware in cockpits nowadays. Then there are brake fires (towing a glider out to launch with the airbrakes out and brake on is a way to do that), canopies starting fires etc. It will end up an obscure activity indulged in by aging eccentrics, far from civilization and polite company. Oh wait ... RAOFLMAO. That's why I love it ;-) ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
