Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider at HallsCreek WA?
Hi John; This is the aircraft that passed through Alice Springs last weekend (picture attached). The caption was: Look what we've got at the club again this morning! Some of our members tried out this visiting DG1001M powered sailplane yesterday, after its pilot dropped in on the way to Halls Creek. Words like 'awesome' and 'silent' and 'silky smooth' were heard coming from those who took up the offer of a flight... On Thu, 2015-06-25 at 15:04 +0800, John Welsh wrote: Hi Folks, A friend of mine works at Halls Creek Met Office in the far north of WA sent me this photo of a glider in the area today. It looks like a DG1001, anyone know who’s up there and what are the conditions like? Regards, John Welsh. Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw, http://www.exadios.com Public key at www.exadios.com/pfb.pgp.key and www.exadios.com/pfb.gpg.key Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] more on ADSB
Hi; This is what XCSoar does. https://skylines.aero/tracking/ On Thu, 2015-05-28 at 16:25 +1000, Mike Borgelt wrote: It has been pointed out to me that all we really need is the cellphone network. Implement flight tracking for everyone using the web via the cellphone 3 or 4G and receive the information on tracked aircraft via the same method. Essentially unlimited range and 15 second updates are plenty at longer ranges. AMSA are about to implement the tracking via AvPlan so you can let them know you'll be doing this. If you don't show up it will help the search. Mike At 02:54 PM 28/05/2015, you wrote: anti collision / situational awareness for all http://www.sagetechcorp.com/unmanned-solutions/unmanned-manned.cfm#.VWadsc-qpBd Will have a raspberry to play with this arvo.. Economical way for a proof of concept.. Erich ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments- design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw, http://www.exadios.com Public key at www.exadios.com/pfb.pgp.key and www.exadios.com/pfb.gpg.key Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] SkyLines
Hi; In addition to offering fight scoring and live flight display SkyLines now offers a flight planning facility. Also, to come is a competition facility. See: http://www.skylines-project.org/ Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw, http://www.exadios.com Public key at www.exadios.com/pfb.pgp.key and www.exadios.com/pfb.gpg.key Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. -- Peter F Bradshaw, http://www.exadios.com Public key at www.exadios.com/pfb.pgp.key and www.exadios.com/pfb.gpg.key Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] 50' obstacle clearance rule
Hi Tom; I am 62 years old so I have no problem dealing with it. But I am not that old that I do not remember that I was once young. Recreational flying - and gliding - have become almost exclusively the pass times of old men. So when glider pilots start talking about teaching young kids to drive a bus (the rough equivalent to flying a plane to a young person) and they want to do it using feet and knots then I can see no relief. Looking at the date I see that the year is 2012, not 1962. If flying is not to be abut the future it will become about the past (as it already has) - deal with it! On Thu, 18 Oct 2012, tom claffey wrote: Aviation uses feet for height, metres for horizontal distance and knots for speed - deal with it! The teenagers I teach with the AAFC have no problems with it. Tom From: Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 19 October 2012 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 50' obstacle clearance rule Hi; Irrespective of whether it is 50' or not I find it hard to believe that the figure is given in a system which people under 40 have no heuristic knowledge of. On Mon, 15 Oct 2012, Mark Newton wrote: Hi folks. My google-fu is failing me, but at least one of you can probably help. I've long accepted that the rule for obstacle clearance is 50'. However, the GFA instructor handbook describes it as a wingspan, and the B certificate oral exam calls 50' a recommended minimum, so I'm trying to go back to sources to find the origin of the rule. And I can't seem to find it written down anywhere. I'm beginning to suspect that my long-term acceptance of the 50' rule is wrong, and that the real limit is, shall we say, more operationally fluid than that. Wondering if the strict mention of 50' that I've seen at clubs all over Australia is actually more of a tradition, perhaps derived from a misunderstanding of certified light aircraft performance charts which give minimum takeoff distances including clearance of a 50' obstacle. Does anyone have a cite to the regulations? (while you're at it, providing a cite to a current GFA or non-exempted CASA regulation which states what GFA annual check entails, whether it's required to be signed out in a logbook, or whether an instructor is even required to be present, would help to settle a long-standing argument :) - mark Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] 50' obstacle clearance rule
Hi Tom; There are two problems flowing from the units. One is that the average 20 yo does not know what a foot is (and does not care). The other is the image it presents. Of the two the second is the more important for the future of gliding. As I said try asking around. P.S. I inserted the TIFF reference as an example of the impenetrable language used around the average gliding club. It is a marketing disaster. On Fri, 19 Oct 2012, tom claffey wrote: Hundreds of thousands of young people staying away from gliding because of feet and knots? Just how many TIFs does your club do? ;) There are many reasons for low numbers of new pilots but units are not one of them! [old mumbling instructors may be!] Tom From: Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 19 October 2012 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 50' obstacle clearance rule Hi Tom; I'm not sure what you mean by second officers but I'm guessing that you are not talking about glider pilots. In any case the people you need to talk to are the young people who are not taking up gliding in their hundreds of thousands. As you have said young people should deal with it and they have - by staying away. They simply have no interest in a bunch of old guys mumbling incoherently about TIFFs in feet and knots etc. I have actually submitted the suggestion about units to CASA. Are they interested - hell no. But even if they were, by the time the ICAO got around to it gliding will be well and truely dead in this country. On Fri, 19 Oct 2012, tom claffey wrote: Peter, I am only 48and can deal with either measurement. I spend my spare time instructing 14-18 year-olds who also deal with it quite well. At work I deal with it with 25-30 year old second officers who have no issues with it. As I replied to Al, if you have better ideas then put them to ICAO!! We could change anything we like but the rest of the world wont change because of it. Like it or not we are part of the wider Aviation community. Tom ___ _ From: Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaritymuning in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 19 October 2012 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 50' obstacle clearance rule Hi Tom; I am 62 years old so I have no problem dealing with it. But I am not that old that I do not remember that I was once young. Recreational flying - and gliding - have become almost exclusively the pass times of old men. So when glider pilots start talking about teaching young kids to drive a bus (the rough equivalent to flying a plane to a young person) and they want to do it using feet and knots then I can see no relief. Looking at the date I see that the year is 2012, not 1962. If flying is not to be abut the future it will become about the past (as it already has) - deal with it! On Thu, 18 Oct 2012, tom claffey wrote: Aviation uses feet for height, metres for horizontal distance and knots for speed - deal with it! The teenagers I teach with the AAFC have no problems with it. Tom __ _ _ From: Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 19 October 2012 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 50' obstacle clearance rule Hi; Irrespective of whether it is 50' or not I find it hard to believe that the figure is given in a system which people under 40 have no heuristic knowledge of. On Mon, 15 Oct 2012, Mark Newton wrote: Hi folks. My google-fu is failing me, but at least one of you can probably help. I've long accepted that the rule for obstacle clearance is 50'. However, the GFA instructor handbook describes it as a wingspan, and the B certificate oral exam calls 50' a recommended minimum, so I'm trying to go back to sources to find the origin of the rule. And I can't seem to find it written down anywhere. I'm beginning to suspect that my long-term acceptance of the 50' rule is wrong, and that the real limit is, shall we say, more operationally fluid than that. Wondering if the strict mention of 50' that I've seen at clubs all over Australia is actually more of a tradition, perhaps derived from a misunderstanding of certified light aircraft performance charts which give minimum takeoff distances including clearance of a 50' obstacle. Does anyone have a cite to the regulations? (while you're at it, providing a cite to a current GFA or non-exempted CASA regulation which states what GFA annual check entails, whether it's required to be signed out
Re: [Aus-soaring] 50' obstacle clearance rule
Hi; Irrespective of whether it is 50' or not I find it hard to believe that the figure is given in a system which people under 40 have no heuristic knowledge of. On Mon, 15 Oct 2012, Mark Newton wrote: Hi folks. My google-fu is failing me, but at least one of you can probably help. I've long accepted that the rule for obstacle clearance is 50'. However, the GFA instructor handbook describes it as a wingspan, and the B certificate oral exam calls 50' a recommended minimum, so I'm trying to go back to sources to find the origin of the rule. And I can't seem to find it written down anywhere. I'm beginning to suspect that my long-term acceptance of the 50' rule is wrong, and that the real limit is, shall we say, more operationally fluid than that. Wondering if the strict mention of 50' that I've seen at clubs all over Australia is actually more of a tradition, perhaps derived from a misunderstanding of certified light aircraft performance charts which give minimum takeoff distances including clearance of a 50' obstacle. Does anyone have a cite to the regulations? (while you're at it, providing a cite to a current GFA or non-exempted CASA regulation which states what GFA annual check entails, whether it's required to be signed out in a logbook, or whether an instructor is even required to be present, would help to settle a long-standing argument :) - mark Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CCN, Day 2
Hi Adam; Following the contest on Soaring Spot. Also I can see Luke O'Donnell on SkyLines real time display. Are you able to use the real time display also? P.S. I whated Luke land out today - bad luck. On Wed, 10 Oct 2012, Adam Woolley wrote: Club Class Task: AAT, 3:30. Windera (30km circle) - Coranga North (15km circle) - Brigalow (150km Wedge to W NW) - Bunya Towers (15km) - CPS (2km) - Kingaroy 1st Launch @ 10:45 9000' under CU? Wet weather tomorrow? Cheers, WPP Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 as cockpit touchscreen display
Hi; WRT XCSoar this question has been flogged to death in various places. It almost came to a homicide on the developers' list. The net result is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.xcsoarrd.nohorizonfeature=nav_other#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDYsIm9yZy54Y3NvYXJyZC5ub2hvcml6b24iXQ.. Whether this will satisfy the US competition authorities, or anybody else, I do not know. And I do not care. The point is that accelerometers / gyros are going to become so ubiquitous that the competition rule writers are going to be writing themselves into history if they persist with their no instruments approach. On Wed, 12 Sep 2012, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 11:00 AM 12/09/2012, you wrote: 31.2 Instruments or displays which aid cloud flying are prohibited, and must be removed or disabled to the satisfaction of the Organisers. So anything with gyros/accelerometers/magnetometers and certainly in combination with GPS is more than enough to build a high quality artificial horizon in software. Question is, how do you detect this and make sure the pilot doesn't have micro SD card or another device that transfers (even wirelessly) the AH software to the nice colour display device after scrutiny? Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 as cockpit touchscreen display
Hi; My appoligies, a better link would be: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.xcsoarrd.nohorizonfeature=nav_other On Wed, 12 Sep 2012, Peter F Bradshaw wrote: Hi; WRT XCSoar this question has been flogged to death in various places. It almost came to a homicide on the developers' list. The net result is: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.xcsoarrd.nohorizonfeature=nav_other#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDYsIm9yZy54Y3NvYXJyZC5ub2hvcml6b24iXQ.. Whether this will satisfy the US competition authorities, or anybody else, I do not know. And I do not care. The point is that accelerometers / gyros are going to become so ubiquitous that the competition rule writers are going to be writing themselves into history if they persist with their no instruments approach. On Wed, 12 Sep 2012, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 11:00 AM 12/09/2012, you wrote: 31.2 Instruments or displays which aid cloud flying are prohibited, and must be removed or disabled to the satisfaction of the Organisers. So anything with gyros/accelerometers/magnetometers and certainly in combination with GPS is more than enough to build a high quality artificial horizon in software. Question is, how do you detect this and make sure the pilot doesn't have micro SD card or another device that transfers (even wirelessly) the AH software to the nice colour display device after scrutiny? Mike Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Radios, fuses BNC wiring etc
Hi; I assume that when you say guage you are talking AWG. Because now days wire is specified by cross section area I have put in a link to the AWG to mm^2 conversion: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html On Mon, 3 Sep 2012, Ian Mc Phee wrote: Over past few months I have seen many problems and it all came to a head this weekend when a person reported blade fuse was OK but it must have been heated and thus became resistive, A new fuse solved the problem. 30 years ago a guy was having trouble with his Borgelt acting like a windscreen wiper, and Mike said change the fuse and it was then perfect. Here are some recent problems 1 A BNC aerial connector would spin like a top and somebody had used a piece of solder wound around the wire and fitting was done up on that - Replaced with crimp BNC and SWR now 1.2 to 1 2 Another had used a BNC with screw driver connection- they are the lowest of the low in my opinion and should be banned in gliding.. 3 A winch aerial had a BNC shorting out at radio end and thinking I had found the trouble I almost left it but then thought best to check aerial end and some fool had used a welder and totally melted the insulation at aerial end. 4 A new glider clearly had a faulty aerial in fin and on checking SWR was a hopeless 3 to 1 5 I checked a base radio recently and soon found a poor SWR and it turned out to be the aerial Base connector bought from Dick Smith and was from Mobile One and had a dry joint on connector. Resoldered and now radio is just amaizing (SWR 1.1 to 1) and it is a 30 year old Terra 360 6 An open Libelle and a Cirrus Std both had faulty aerial in fin (those gliders with an adjustor at base of fin) My only solution is an aerial in fuse at about the trailing edge and make up a X of ground plane 7 After the 3rd exchange of radio I drove for 7 hours when I was really sick a few years ago and only to find a piece of 22g wire in the power circuit Change all wire into 16 G wire and bingo it was strength 5. Not good enough and this was a $200K aircraft. I had Dennis Stacey with me over the weekend and we discussed the radio problems within gliding and really something must be done and I support Dennis if he acts as present system in gliding is just not good enough. . . I really believe ALL CLUBS should get a BNC crimp tool and a bag of BNC connectors with strain relief. Also also buy a SWR meter or atleast be able to borrow same from somebody.It is not rocket science how to do a BNC or use a SWR meter. Then ALL gliders should have SWR test in the next 12 months ideally and must all be checked within 3 years (bit like a GA instrument 8 check) This ALL gliders includes NEW gliders as well. Secondly ALL gliders must have all radio power wires minimum size 18g (I prefer 16G for 2 seater).I hate to say it but I find an electrician is not the person to make up a glider harness as they do not read the manual. Thirdly lets use say 15A quality circurit breakers attached to battery and QUALITY circuit breakers on the radio at least. Finally check batteries annually after a bit of a load say a 12 v brake light bulb for say 1 hour then check voltage while xmitting and replace crap batteries PLEASE. Personally I will only use aircraft wires in a glider harness What is $20 in the cost of a install and 80% of problems are the install and NOT the radio even a Microair!!!. Ian McPhee 0428847642 I do have many tricks with older radios so please make contact And if you have a Becker 3201 which looses its memory please replace battery NOW as it could well leak internally and wreck radio. Otherwise they are a bullet proof radio. Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Club accounting
Hi Trevor; I use GnuCash for business applications: http://www.gnucash.org/ It is mature, stable and the documentation is adequate. And its opensource and free. On Tue, 21 Aug 2012, trevor.bu...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi, can anyone recommend a club accounting program other than MYOB? I would like to get away from the cost of upgrades. Trevor Burke Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC
Hi Scott; Looking forward to that with interest. That's the good thing obout open source projects - they're always open to improvement. On Mon, 23 Jul 2012, Scott Penrose wrote: Facebook, Google+, Linkedin... it is a competitive world :-) Personally I am hoping that I will be able to merge my live tracking code into the new Skylines. There is already work in there for tracking with phones, but I want to support SPOT and other tracking too. Scott On 23/07/2012, at 3:02 AM, Peter F Bradshaw wrote: Hi Paul; Well that's not going to happen. Welcome the the 21st century. On Wed, 18 Jul 2012, Paul Bart wrote: True, but they may not choose to. I think the people supporting OLC simply want to see all the results in one place. Cheers Paul On 18 July 2012 00:52, Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com wrote: Hi; Nothing stops a pilot from uploading an IGC file to both OLC and SkyLines. On Fri, 13 Jul 2012, Pam Kurstjens wrote: Why would we need an alternative? I think there is great strength and interest having worldwide flights in one place. If you would like to see an alternative system, check out the BGA Ladder in the UK: http://www.bgaladder.co.uk and click on 'daily scores' for example. Yesterday, 39 flights in the UK were posted to this site, and only 5 of those were posted to OLC. People are regularly doing 750's and the rare 1000, which are incredible flights given the size of the island, the airspace, and the weather, yet we see few flights on the OLC so gliding in the UK goes largely unnoticed by the worldwide gliding community. Pam -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter F Bradshaw Sent: Monday, 2 July 2012 9:51 PM To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC Hi; There is an alternative to the OLC at: http://skylines.xcsoar.org/ IGC files may be uploaded and scored here. In addition it is planned to implement a realtime tracking feature in conjunction with XCSoar (v6.4). Cheers Cheers Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC
Hi; Nothing stops a pilot from uploading an IGC file to both OLC and SkyLines. On Fri, 13 Jul 2012, Pam Kurstjens wrote: Why would we need an alternative? I think there is great strength and interest having worldwide flights in one place. If you would like to see an alternative system, check out the BGA Ladder in the UK: http://www.bgaladder.co.uk and click on 'daily scores' for example. Yesterday, 39 flights in the UK were posted to this site, and only 5 of those were posted to OLC. People are regularly doing 750's and the rare 1000, which are incredible flights given the size of the island, the airspace, and the weather, yet we see few flights on the OLC so gliding in the UK goes largely unnoticed by the worldwide gliding community. Pam -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter F Bradshaw Sent: Monday, 2 July 2012 9:51 PM To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC Hi; There is an alternative to the OLC at: http://skylines.xcsoar.org/ IGC files may be uploaded and scored here. In addition it is planned to implement a realtime tracking feature in conjunction with XCSoar (v6.4). Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC
Hi; There is an alternative to the OLC at: http://skylines.xcsoar.org/ IGC files may be uploaded and scored here. In addition it is planned to implement a realtime tracking feature in conjunction with XCSoar (v6.4). Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Argentinian Worlds
Hi; Has anybody investigated the possibility of landing the aircraft in Brazil or Uruguay and on shipping to Argentina - or even just driving it across? On Sat, 30 Jun 2012, Tim Shirley wrote: Hi Ron, As I understand it there have been significant problems with the costs and bureaucratic difficulties of getting gliders into the country. Apparently there are very few modern gliders available locally. I believe that Allan will now be flying in the World Class as it is possible for him to hire a PW5 in Argentina. Tobi Geiger, Craig Collings and Mike Durrant were in the original team with Allan - Mike has withdrawn because of the costs but I assume that Tobi and Craig are still attending. Both are in Club Class. This has not only affected Australia, there are many others around the world who are facing this problem. It may be a fairly small event. Untitled Document Cheers /Tim/ /tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare/ On 30/06/2012 13:21, Ron Sanders wrote: ONLY Alan?? On 29 June 2012 20:04, Ian Mc Phee mrsoar...@gmail.com mailto:mrsoar...@gmail.com wrote: Think Allan Barnes will be there. Ian M On Jun 29, 2012 9:07 PM, Ron Sanders resand...@gmail.com mailto:resand...@gmail.com wrote: I was just wondering if Australia has any pilots at all attending the Argentinian Worlds in January 2013? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] FAA Investigating Fatal Glider Crash
A couple of horrible landings in this video. On Wed, 30 May 2012, Andres Miramontes wrote: http://www.fox17online.com/news/fox17-breaking-news-one-dies-after-glider-accident-20120529,0,2470761.story Andres Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] gfa web site
Hi; I think that nobody can log into the GFA site. I believe its broken. On Sun, 22 Apr 2012, Ron Sanders wrote: Can someone outbthere tell me please why i can not log onto www.gfa.org.au??? Ron Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Radio near collision.
Hi; It would be better to reasonably comply with all rules. On Fri, 20 Apr 2012, Tim Shirley wrote: Hi all, . . . I have a simple rule for the radio. I listen as much as possible and I talk as little as I can get away with while still complying with all reasonable rules. Cheers /Tim/ /tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare/ On 20/04/2012 10:17, Mark Newton wrote: On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 09:31:21AM +1000, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2012/04/20/teenage-pilots-quick-response-avoids-collision/ The actual ATSB report referenced by the article is here: http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/3548648/ab-2012-019.pdf#page=47 I'm sure there's a lot of room for interpretation here (i.e., concerning whether a CAR166C broadcast is strictly required if the glider pilot doesn't believe it is necessary to do so to avoid a collision, or the risk of a collision with another aircraft.) The differing guidance between the competition rules, GFA rules and CASA rules about which frequency should be used and when broadcasts should be made is also up for discussion. But one thing worth hilighting is that I think CASA and GFA have diverged in their focus on radio of late. My experience of GFA's training concerning radio is that it emphasised minimizing radio chatter in favor of focussing on flying the aeroplane and looking out. Meanwhile CASA's training of GA pilots has emphasised more promiscuous use of the radio, leading to glider pilots making snarky comments about GA pilots spending all their time talking instead of looking where they're going. I think glider pilot radio training has probably varied quite a bit from club to club too -- which is, itself, a problem. Over the last couple of years, CASA has shifted from see and avoid to radio assisted see and avoid to see and avoid alerted by mandatory radio calls. The CTAF rules published last year are the latest step in that evolution. I don't think a lot of glider pilots have kept up with those changes. Moreover, glider pilots trained more than a few years ago who haven't updated their skills are now probably using radio very differently to other airspace users, even if it is consistent with the way they were trained. (have you read the latest version of the GFA radio operators handbook? It's probably different from the one you were trained against. I'd include a link, but GFA's website seems to be down at the moment...) - mark Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ...
Hi; I image that in this case we would be talking about torts. A pilot does not have to be in violation of any la or regulation to be subject to a tort (just ask anybody in business). The fact that a glider is in the air is irrelevant. On Mon, 26 Mar 2012, DMcD wrote: Horsies and their owners are a real problem for outlandings. Around the Mt Tambourine area in QLD, you are warned never ever to land in anything other than a designated outlanding area. In the UK they suggest that if a paddock has horses in it and the next best option is flying into the side of a mountain, that you take the mountain option since there's a good chance that you or your heirs won't be able to afford the alternative. Overflying is another issue altogether. Surely, if you are flying at a legal height (whatever that might be), there is little that the horsie or owner can do about it? Isn't there some figure of 300' AGL somewhere? Back in the early days of trikes and ultralights, we were limited to something less than 300' which meant flying at something like 9 most of the time which was briefly fun from the cockpit side but humans and stock didn't like it at all. In fact I have been roundly told off by a horse owner (sister) for just rigging my glider within sight of a horse in case it spooked them. D Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ouch
Hi; For those of you who receive Gliding International there is an article (P46, We get the message) that touchs on how we are failing to attract PGs and HGs to gliding. Worth a read. On Fri, 24 Feb 2012, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: There was a time when it was hoped that the hang gliders would move to conventional gliding with age, better income etc etc. I have noticed the well into middle age of some of them in the press lately. This one was 59. - Original Message - From: Nelson Handcock To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 11:51 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Ouch http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2012/02/24/309331_news.html -- Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Tocumwal Nationals
Thanks. I was just about to make the statement that required that response. Seems you anticipated me. On Sun, 29 Jan 2012, Mal Bruce wrote: Good to hear. Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ramp Check on Tug at Beverley
APRON. TARMAC. More British english expresions amoungst other sneaking into our language! On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, MIKE BORGELT wrote: We could use the British apron or tarmac both of which are also inappropriate in describing that area. CASA probably uses ramp because that's what the FAA calls it. Technically a ramp check in the USA is probably unconstitutional as for the authorities to stop and check you while going about your business in public they need probable cause. Then again the US government long ago stopped paying attention to that magnificent document. Wilbur and Orville invented the airplane so that's what it should be called IMO. I'll go along with ramp too. Mike At 10:10 AM 16/01/2012, you wrote: RAMP. Another US english expression amongst others sneaking into our language. Ugh! Those areas have always looked pretty flat to me. It seems to have started off meaning the boarding stairs or ramp (e.g. ramp ceremony) and then took over the whole tarmac/departure area. Chris ;-) - Original Message - From: Texler, Michael michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Ramp Check on Tug at Beverley Did the CASA official provide proof of his own identity? I think that you would be within your rights to at least record the name of the officer doing the ramp check and what transpired in case anything went pear shaped. In today's age, how would you know you're not dealing with someone who was bogus. Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Results
Hi; The results are now at the link below. Nothing at Soaring Spot yet. Congratulations to all the competitors, and to Greg, Norm and Paul who came first, second and third. On Sat, 14 Jan 2012, Mal Bruce wrote: 2012 Championship Results Last Updated ( Monday, 24 October 2011 22:56 ) ? http://www.waga.org.au/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=67Itemid=89 Via facebook Congratulations Norm 2nd place ? Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Uvalde PREWORLDS Team Blog
Hi Anita; If you want the Facebook page to be interesting to third parties then you need, at the very mininmum, answers four questions (on the Facebook page): What, why, where, when. I know the answers to these questions but, if I did not, nothing on the Facebook page would inform me. Without this sort of information the site will remain an insiders page. Also, you may want to explain what the PREWORLDS are - I don't know but I can guess. On Mon, 18 Jul 2011, Anita Taylor wrote: How exciting: we leave on the weekend, and the rest of the Team is preparing or on the way as well. Team Members: CaptainTerry Cubley (assist by Mandy Temple next year) Open John Buchanan and Gerrit Kurstjens 15m Peter Trotter and Lisa Trotter (It's pretty special to have a Wife and Husband Team!!) 18m Bruce Taylor and David Jansen (David is in Germany preparing for the Grand Prix being held at the Wasserkuppe http://sailplane-grandprix-2011.aero/?lang=en and we wish him good luck and good flying) We will be running a public facebook page as our blog. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Australian-Gliding-Team-Uvalde-2012/144054625668825 I'd appreciate as many LIKES as possible, as I'd like to show to third parties that we have a wide support base J The Junior Team is also all stations GO for their World Championships, also in Germany. Here is their blog: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Australian-Junior-Gliding-Team/216217575090131 Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another tragedy....
Hi; Here is a story from the local paper: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/the-tragic-final-flight-of-a-gliding-fanatic-20110715-1hh63.html Alfred was an experienced pilot. Here are some of his glidong movies: http://www.youtube.com/user/alfsrc Alfed's 2011 OLC flights are here: http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightbook.html?sp=2011st=olcprt=olcpi=37740 Its been a long time since we have had a death resulting from a gliding accident here in WA so this accident is a shock. On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, Nelson Handcock wrote: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/glider-pilot-dies-in-mountain-crash/story-fn3dxity-1226095357960 Hope someone from the WA Gliding community can provide further info as appropriate Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Back to Basics
Hi; Interesting article at: http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2011/july/proficient.html Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia!
Hi; On Sat, 2 Jul 2011, DMcD wrote: . . . The question is, if the mag is free to us, why not publish it in parallel on the GFA site or give us the option to take either version? After all, it's only one click of a button in something like Indesign. . . . Exactly! Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia!
Hi Mike; As you point out it is not optional - so in reality it is part of the GFA membership. The $42 (or what ever it is) would just cover postage and printing. Yet another reason to privide it online. I would be prepared to donate my $42 subscription to online editions because these would have a wider circulation and, perhaps, draw in new members - something that we all want to see! On Sat, 2 Jul 2011, Michael Scutter wrote: Its not free to you. You pay a separate subscription. When I renewed my GFA membership, I did not select the magazine subscription. I was told in no uncertain terms by GFA that my GFA membership would not be renewed until I paid the separate subscription, hence I could not fly with my club until I paid that component. Michael Scutter, Education Training Consultant, Email: michael_scut...@yahoo.com.au Mobile: 0417822330 (Int +614178223300) skype://michaelscutter I don't say anything here that I would not say to your face. From: Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sat, 2 July, 2011 10:50:29 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia! Hi; On Sat, 2 Jul 2011, DMcD wrote: . . . The question is, if the mag is free to us, why not publish it in parallel on the GFA site or give us the option to take either version? After all, it's only one click of a button in something like Indesign. . . . Exactly! Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Australia!
Hi; The content does look good. What I do not understand is why it has to be delivered on paper. It is so inconvenient. It would be much better if it was distributed as a PDF once every month. On Fri, 1 Jul 2011, Ben Loxton wrote: Just received the first issue of the new GFA Gliding Australia magazine - and i just wanted to say WOW!!! - Beautifully laid out in full colour, with some great sections and content :) I can only imagine how much work has gone into this well done to everyone - its a great result! i am certainly looking forward to Issue 2 :) Kind Regards, Ben Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Interesting?
Hi; The dynamic soaring tactic is very interesting. Has anybody tried this? On Thu, 30 Jun 2011, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: http://www.chem.info/News/Feeds/2011/06/topics-alternative-energy-autopiloted-glider-knows-where-to-fly-for-a-free-r/ Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Undershoot epedemic in USofA ?
Hi Gus; In Pennsylvania they take a much less relaxed attitute to gliding than we do here. My guess is that the pilot is going to be done for Felony Undershoot. On Mon, 27 Jun 2011, Gus Stewart wrote: It's in the Crime section of the paper? On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: ** http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/crime/glider-crashes-in-hilltown/article_6f50a11e-00c1-59b9-9040-1d49e8cdce25.html?mode=imagephoto=0 Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
Hi; Another article which expands upon the subject: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/02/06/352727/industry-sounds-warnings-on-airline-pilot-skills.html On Mon, 30 May 2011, Mike Borgelt wrote: WTF http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/05/28/357321/revised-stall-procedures-centre-on-angle-of-attack-not.html Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
Hi; Here is the release from BEA which may answer some questions (and raise others): http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af.447/point.enquete.af447.27mai2011.en.pdf On Mon, 30 May 2011, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 12:56 PM 30/05/2011, you wrote: I know nothing about nothing which is probably apparent from my postings, but can someone tell me, do instruments like an artificial horizon give these pilots any indication of nose angle or angle of incidence? I was attempting to explain a stall like this to #2 wife and had difficulty understanding why they did not put the nose down or look at an instrument to tell them their AOA since they would have had some minutes to think about this during what appears to have been a tail down plunge. At least if the SOPs have changed, I can persuade her to get on another plane. D ___ Angle of incidence is an engineering term to denote the angle which the wing chord line (or tailplane chord line) meets the fuselage datum. The attitude indicator shows where the nose is pointed. In Head Up Displays this known as the waterline. It can be a W shape with wings each side. The velocity vector is the direction in which the aircraft is moving. On a HUD this is usually a little diamond shape. The velocity vector can also show sideslip. The angle of attack is the angle of the wing chord line to the relative wind. I don't know what the Airbus philosophy on the main attitude display is. Maybe Adam can enlighten us. I suspect AoA may be a number somewhere on the display. I hope at least that. I think I can see one scenario for the AF447 case. At 35degrees AoA the descent angle would be very steep and the attitude may even have been shown to be slightly nose down relative to the horizon. The crew may have been trying to pull the nose up but to no avail. Mike Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Stalls
Hi; On Mon, 30 May 2011, Mark Newton wrote: On 30/05/2011, at 12:26 PM, DMcD wrote: I was attempting to explain a stall like this to #2 wife and had difficulty understanding why they did not put the nose down or look at an instrument to tell them their AOA since they would have had some minutes to think about this during what appears to have been a tail down plunge. They were at high altitude and flying heavy. Thus Vs and Vmo would have been rather close together. It isn't entirely unusual for an airliner at altitude to only have a 10 - 15 KIAS range between maximum speed and stall speed. Indications from the flight data recorder released so far are that something happened which made all of the flight computers trip offline at the same time (possibly all three pitot/static probes icing over at the same time - speculation) In very short order, that'd have disengaged the autopilot, placed the aircraft into alternate law (where overspeed and stalling protections are disabled), and killed almost all of the instruments. The screens would have been full of cautions and warnings from the tripped systems, and audible alarms would have been blaring through the cockpit. At high altitude, when Vs and Vmo are close together, and the autopilot/autothrottles are offline, virtually any disturbance in the outside air or applied to the sidestick would have either made the aircraft stall or overspeed. The aircraft was in a thunderstorm, so there's your disturbance in the outside air. No vertical speed indication, no altimeter, no horizon reference at night in a thunderstorm, no ASI. So probably no way of recovering from the stall. - mark I don't understand why they would not have had artificial horizon or vertical speed indicator. They certainly had an altimeter becase they called 10,000' as it went by. Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
Hi Tom; So what is the point of the argument now? Is it that Boonah Gliding Club should be immune from lawsuits? On Tue, 17 May 2011, tom claffey wrote: Hi Peter, I know and understand the case well! It seems you miss my point, this case was eventually found in favour of the club and the club was all OK. Fine you would think, however it cost them about $80K to that point and had to sell gliders to pay the bill! 15 years or so later they are still affected. The bottom of the harbour would be a start! Tom From: Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2011 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident Hi Tom; I do not know about the Boonah case but I suspect that logic did win in that case and either you did not understand it or it dictated an result with which you do not agree. On Mon, 16 May 2011, tom claffey wrote: Unfortunately logic does not always win in the law area. Just ask Boonah club members what it cost the club when the family of a tug pilot sued after the wings came off the tug! They hadn't even rigged it and the dead pilot had DI'd it! Tom From: Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2011 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident Hi Mike; On Tue, 17 May 2011, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 10:16 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Ron; A lawsuit like what? You are responding to a mail that hypothesizes that lawsuits are possible. There is no actual lawsuit. Read it again. He didn't say there was, just that there is the possibility in similar situations. Hence my use of the word hypothesizes - a word that gives his argument more dignity than it deserves. I sure wouldn't try your legal defence. So are you telling the Court, Sir, that even though you knew there was no way of positively checking, you signed that the aircraft had been rigged correctly?. The second signer is not signing that the aircraft has been rigged correctly. The signer is stating that he or she has checked the rigging in a competent and reasonable manner. This is a different proposition in law and in fact. I think the lesson to be learnt from this accident is that, as somebody else here has noted, that DI tickets should be issued on a per aircraft type basis. Plainly, in this case, neither the riggers nor the people who checked the rigging knew how to rig or check this particular aircraft type. It might even be worse than a civil suit which even if you win is going to cost thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to defend with the loss of time, stress, worry etc. You might run into a coroner or Public prosectuor who wants to make a name for him or herself and find yourself on a criminal charge. What is this? Fear Mongering 101? How did we jump from civil lawsuits to criminal proceedings? The problem with your argument is that it is one best tailored to the idea that the best way to live our lives is to enter a windowless room, close and lock the door, and sit quietly in the dark. The truth of the matter is that each of us perform actions and take risks every day in order to live our lives. Any of us may be sued at any time. How far the plaintiff gets is a function of the merit of their case. The best defense is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner. Further the best way to operate our sport is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner and cross checking is an important part of this paradigm. Cheers Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
Hi; In this case, the fact that there was no resonable check for the bottom pin engagement would be a sufficient defense in any litigation. On Mon, 16 May 2011, John Parncutt wrote: Geoff your argument explains precisely why we DO need a second rigging inspection! Things do get forgotten or missed (especially by more experienced pilots). I am more than happy to sign off on a duplicate inspection having made damn sure that it is right, why? Not because the risk of litigation but because I care about the safety of my fellow pilots and myself. It is absolutely clear that a second inspection will significantly reduce the risk of a mistake. John Parncutt From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Geoff Vincent Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 5:31 PM To: p...@kurstjens.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.; 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident Pam, I totally support your sentiments. Additionally, on several occasions I have deliberately left a rigging item undone in full view and on three occasions the error was not discovered by the second inspector who I might add were all pilots with many years experience. They all would have signed off the DI if I hadn't then intervened. From my viewpoint there is no substitute for doing the inspection properly yourself and taking full and sole responsibility for that. Regards, Geoff V At 04:56 PM 16/05/2011, Pam Kurstjens wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_000_002E_01CC13EA.39BBB660 Content-Language: en-au Anyone who countersigns somebody else's rigging is nuts. Unless they have observed and checked it every inch of the way, fully understand the glider type they are signing off for, AND are willing to accept liability. Why do we expose our fellow glider pilots to this enormous burden of responsibility? Pam From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Gage Sent: Monday, 16 May 2011 2:01 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident Rolf, in this I agree with Mike - there is no way that a duplicate control check (or even DI) would have found the problem. Sadly, such a person would have spent months in court defending themselves, costing them many thousands with no prospect of any insurance helping them. In practice, the UK do have a 2nd inspection - just with no signature. The accident report even says this was done ! Is it the check that improves safety or the signature On 16/05/2011, at 13:35 , rolf a. buelter wrote: Yea, way more important to cover your ass against litigation then document a second chance to get it right! Allays your miserable Mr. Buelter Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:54:25 +1000 To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident Lots of lessons in the Foka crash. One big one is how fortunate it was the BGA and there was no second sigmnature on the DI after rigging. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
Hi Mike; On Tue, 17 May 2011, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 10:16 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Ron; A lawsuit like what? You are responding to a mail that hypothesizes that lawsuits are possible. There is no actual lawsuit. Read it again. He didn't say there was, just that there is the possibility in similar situations. Hence my use of the word hypothesizes - a word that gives his argument more dignity than it deserves. I sure wouldn't try your legal defence. So are you telling the Court, Sir, that even though you knew there was no way of positively checking, you signed that the aircraft had been rigged correctly?. The second signer is not signing that the aircraft has been rigged correctly. The signer is stating that he or she has checked the rigging in a competent and reasonable manner. This is a different proposition in law and in fact. I think the lesson to be learnt from this accident is that, as somebody else here has noted, that DI tickets should be issued on a per aircraft type basis. Plainly, in this case, neither the riggers nor the people who checked the rigging knew how to rig or check this particular aircraft type. It might even be worse than a civil suit which even if you win is going to cost thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to defend with the loss of time, stress, worry etc. You might run into a coroner or Public prosectuor who wants to make a name for him or herself and find yourself on a criminal charge. What is this? Fear Mongering 101? How did we jump from civil lawsuits to criminal proceedings? The problem with your argument is that it is one best tailored to the idea that the best way to live our lives is to enter a windowless room, close and lock the door, and sit quietly in the dark. The truth of the matter is that each of us perform actions and take risks every day in order to live our lives. Any of us may be sued at any time. How far the plaintiff gets is a function of the merit of their case. The best defense is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner. Further the best way to operate our sport is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner and cross checking is an important part of this paradigm. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
Hi Pam; As I understand it you are at perfect liberty to fly your glider without having it checked after rigging as things stand now. In fact I think you are free to fly it without doing a DI youself. If that's what you want to do - go for it. On Tue, 17 May 2011, Pam Kurstjens wrote: Peter You live in a halcyon world where you will always be able to find a second person available, every day that you rig your glider, who happens to have a DI ticket for that same glider type. If you support that, then clearly you also support the final total demise of gliding, and that will be very safe for everybody when all gliders are in museums because you have made it totally impractical for anybody to go and rig and fly their glider. Total nonsense. Pam -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter F Bradshaw Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2011 11:11 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident Hi Mike; On Tue, 17 May 2011, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 10:16 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Ron; A lawsuit like what? You are responding to a mail that hypothesizes that lawsuits are possible. There is no actual lawsuit. Read it again. He didn't say there was, just that there is the possibility in similar situations. Hence my use of the word hypothesizes - a word that gives his argument more dignity than it deserves. I sure wouldn't try your legal defence. So are you telling the Court, Sir, that even though you knew there was no way of positively checking, you signed that the aircraft had been rigged correctly?. The second signer is not signing that the aircraft has been rigged correctly. The signer is stating that he or she has checked the rigging in a competent and reasonable manner. This is a different proposition in law and in fact. I think the lesson to be learnt from this accident is that, as somebody else here has noted, that DI tickets should be issued on a per aircraft type basis. Plainly, in this case, neither the riggers nor the people who checked the rigging knew how to rig or check this particular aircraft type. It might even be worse than a civil suit which even if you win is going to cost thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to defend with the loss of time, stress, worry etc. You might run into a coroner or Public prosectuor who wants to make a name for him or herself and find yourself on a criminal charge. What is this? Fear Mongering 101? How did we jump from civil lawsuits to criminal proceedings? The problem with your argument is that it is one best tailored to the idea that the best way to live our lives is to enter a windowless room, close and lock the door, and sit quietly in the dark. The truth of the matter is that each of us perform actions and take risks every day in order to live our lives. Any of us may be sued at any time. How far the plaintiff gets is a function of the merit of their case. The best defense is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner. Further the best way to operate our sport is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner and cross checking is an important part of this paradigm. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
Hi Tom; I do not know about the Boonah case but I suspect that logic did win in that case and either you did not understand it or it dictated an result with which you do not agree. On Mon, 16 May 2011, tom claffey wrote: Unfortunately logic does not always win in the law area. Just ask Boonah club members what it cost the club when the family of a tug pilot sued after the wings came off the tug! They hadn't even rigged it and the dead pilot had DI'd it! Tom From: Peter F Bradshaw p...@exadios.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2011 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident Hi Mike; On Tue, 17 May 2011, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 10:16 PM 16/05/2011, you wrote: Hi Ron; A lawsuit like what? You are responding to a mail that hypothesizes that lawsuits are possible. There is no actual lawsuit. Read it again. He didn't say there was, just that there is the possibility in similar situations. Hence my use of the word hypothesizes - a word that gives his argument more dignity than it deserves. I sure wouldn't try your legal defence. So are you telling the Court, Sir, that even though you knew there was no way of positively checking, you signed that the aircraft had been rigged correctly?. The second signer is not signing that the aircraft has been rigged correctly. The signer is stating that he or she has checked the rigging in a competent and reasonable manner. This is a different proposition in law and in fact. I think the lesson to be learnt from this accident is that, as somebody else here has noted, that DI tickets should be issued on a per aircraft type basis. Plainly, in this case, neither the riggers nor the people who checked the rigging knew how to rig or check this particular aircraft type. It might even be worse than a civil suit which even if you win is going to cost thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to defend with the loss of time, stress, worry etc. You might run into a coroner or Public prosectuor who wants to make a name for him or herself and find yourself on a criminal charge. What is this? Fear Mongering 101? How did we jump from civil lawsuits to criminal proceedings? The problem with your argument is that it is one best tailored to the idea that the best way to live our lives is to enter a windowless room, close and lock the door, and sit quietly in the dark. The truth of the matter is that each of us perform actions and take risks every day in order to live our lives. Any of us may be sued at any time. How far the plaintiff gets is a function of the merit of their case. The best defense is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner. Further the best way to operate our sport is to perform in a competent and reasonable manner and cross checking is an important part of this paradigm. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow?
Hi; All this talk about rope breaks raises another question. When I'm on tow I often look up at the weak link and shackles at the other end and ask myself, Do I want all that stuff in the cockpit with me? The answer is no so I sit slightly to the left of center - which also helps with the torque reaction on the tug. Does anybody else do this or is it only me? Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow?
Hi Adam; Interesting. We are a mandatory low tow club. I thought that all clubs in Australia were likewise. On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Adam Woolley wrote: High tow all the way, so much easier - and definitely gives you more options in the early stages of the tow. WPP -Original Message- From: Peter F Bradshaw Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 4:47 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow? Hi; All this talk about rope breaks raises another question. When I'm on tow I often look up at the weak link and shackles at the other end and ask myself, Do I want all that stuff in the cockpit with me? The answer is no so I sit slightly to the left of center - which also helps with the torque reaction on the tug. Does anybody else do this or is it only me? Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow?
Hi Ian; We use a boot which fits over the glider end of the rope. It is made of a neoprene type material. Its main function is to protect the rings but it also serves to protect the splice. I don't believe that we have ever had a problem with the glider end splice. On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Ian Mc Phee wrote: I FOR ONE WILL NOW ALWAYS TOW TO 500ft ABOVE SLIP STREAM IN A HEAVY GLIDER- no iffs or buts About every 10 years/2000hr tow pilots seem to go out of their way to raise my stress levels to make sure I am awake and still on the ball. My most recent one was Dec 30, 2010 and I was giving a CFI of a club his first flight in a new 2 seater glider (AUW 710kg) and he choose to climb out just below slipstream. Unfortunately the tow pilot was following his ASI instead of attitude. We called for more speed and you guessed it a loop which was not real bad but rope broke and we were left with a very interesting low level return to the field having to go around a line of trees. The alternative was a straight ahead to the lake and if they can land on lakes in Sweden and fly next day then so can we in AUS. There is a old saying straight ahead to the hospital or left or right to the cemetery but when you are faced with a decision it is very tempting to turn back trust me!! Next day we discovered the pitot in tug was partly blocked (very very slow at responding) by hornet nest. If it was fully blocked then clearly it rises to full scale as you climb and goes to zero on decent. Unfortunately the tug pilot was never taught this. Anyhow I am donating $8 auto pitot cover for tug which should go on this week so never again should this happen So what I am leading to is 1 Hence forth I will ALWAYS climb out just above the slip stream to say 500ft ESPECIALLY in heavy gliders 2 I believe SPLICED (joined) ropes have no place in gliding (This rope had a SPLICE in it 1/3 the way to tug).. 3 Personally I would prefer to see a bowline knot at the glider end as they are easier to redo when showing wear. I see it often happens that a worn splice left in ropes far too long. I understand little hard burnt knobs should be sticking out from the splice and when they wear away the splice should be REDONE. The end of the splice quickly becomes the ropes weak link and not the tost weak link at other end which is what happened in this incident. 4 Ropes MUST be end for ended early rather than later. 5 Tug pilots must once straight ahead is not an option go left or right of track (obviously the downwind side of field) so glider has less maneuvering to return to the field. 6 Tug pilots at beginning of each days towing should carefully check their rope for condition, rejecting crap ropes and then the hook on person should check for the rest of the day. 7 I read on this list one club replace ropes at 200flights and at least they get no rope brakes. My other problems from the past are an aerotow retrieve but the tow pilot only had one magneto on and my only alternative was a Murray River landing. Another was the fabric of tug started coming off in strips heading down the rope towards me in the glider. I went to above slipstream (but rope still came along the rope. The cause of this was a leaking battery acid which destroyed the fabric!!! Remember the Swiss cheese is alive and well around all gliding activities. The problem is when the holes line up. Ian McPhee 0428847642 On 12 April 2011 18:02, stephenk steph...@internode.on.net wrote: Low tow has some advantages and is the GFA preferred way, but is certainly not mandatory. From the BGK: When the tug leaves the ground, a noticeable slipstream is produced from its wingtips and this combines with the propwash to produce considerable turbulence. If intending to carry out a high tow, a position above the slipstream is maintained as the combination climbs away. Remember that high tow is, by definition, just above the slipstream, not above the tug. The slipstream is the primary reference, not one of the fixtures on the tug. Note:Slipstream is composed mainly of wingtip vortices. It is only present in flight, not on the ground. The only tug-produced turbulence on the ground is propwash. If intending to carry out a low tow, maintain station above the slipstream until the tug is positively established in a climb. Then move gently but positively down through the turbulence of the slipstream until the turbulence ceases. The glider is now in the low-tow position. Once again the slipstream is the primary reference. Do not go too low in relation to the slipstream - it is not necessary. Regards SWK On 12/04/2011 5:04 PM, Peter F Bradshaw wrote: Hi Adam; Interesting. We are a mandatory low tow club. I thought that all clubs in Australia were likewise. On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Adam Woolley wrote: High tow all
Re: [Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow?
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Paul Mander wrote: I'm with Adam, I prefer high tow, as does much of the rest of the World. I have encountered tug pilots who state categorically that high tow is illegal, but most are quite comfortable with it. I have searched the various GFA Ops Manuals, but can find no definitive statement that low tow is mandatory. Can anyone point me to a clear directive on this issue, or is it a matter for the individual? As far as I know its up to the club and the tug pilot. I believe all the WA clubs are mandatory low tow. IMO there are some days when high tow is just too dangerous to consider. Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Hi or Low Tow Position
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011, Mike wrote: . . . Let's considerer the safety of the combination when we are discussing low versus high tow, both have a place, but we need to be aware of the risk management. Good point. Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow?
Are there any reports of tow induced tug stalls? On Wed, 13 Apr 2011, Dion Stuart Baker wrote: It works both ways, of course. If you get too low, you pull the tail down and cause the tug to stall. I'd say a stall is more dangerous than a dive. A dive takes less time and height to recover from. Dion On 13 April 2011 13:11, DMcD slutsw...@gmail.com wrote: HA I think there's a danger in thinking that just because we don't do what everyone else does, that we have got in wrong in Oz. This is what the BGA safety flash says: === BGA SAFETY FLASH Tug Upsets These happen when the glider gets excessively high, pulling the tug tail up uncontrollably. Sometimes the glider suddenly zooms above the tug in an unstoppable manner after an initial pitch-up, putting the tug into a steep dive requiring as much as 400 feet to recover. The sequence of events occupies only 2-3 seconds, giving little chance for either the glider pilot or tow-pilot to recognise the problem and pull the release in time. Some years ago the BGA ran a successful campaign to stop the resulting fatalities to tug pilots, but several years without incident now appear to have ended. This year there have been two reported upsets and at least one other not reported. Fortunately none resulted in crashes. Six factors make upsets more likely. Three or more together should be considered unacceptable: ? Lightweight glider, low wing-loading ? C of G hooks intended for winch launching ? Short ropes ? Pilots with little aerotow experience ? NearaftCofG. ? Turbulent conditions C of G hooks are the worst factor but the presence of any of these factors increases the danger. === Bearing in mind that we have more turbulence on a regular basis to the Brits and we also have many of the other factors from time to time, there are some scenarios where it is easy to imagine that a low tow may be a better option than a high tow. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Rope break
Hi; I have never had one myself but have been on the airfield during two breaks over the last couple of years. So they do happen. One of those rope breaks may have been the tug pilot pulling his release. It happened when a new student managed to the rope over his wing. A few months later we found a rope that was intact end to end in a paddock. On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: A pilot (a Professor) was killed on the weekend at Blue Ridge Soaring Virginia USA. The FAA has stated that the tow rope broke and he landed in trees nearby. Having had very few aerotows I was wondering just how common rope breaks are locally. I have heard about 'aerotow upsets' but never a simple rope break. Chris Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Hilmer Geissler
Sadly Hilmer Geissler died on Wed, March / 09. Those of you who glide in WA may know Hilmer. The funeral announcement is: Hilmer's funeral is scheduled to take place in the West Chapel at Fremantle Cemetery at 11:00 AM on Tuesday 15th of March; the cemetery is on the corner of Leach Highway Carrington Street and the entrance is off Carrington Street. -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Downloading files from a flyWithCE flight recorder
Hi Ken; Are you certain that the Flight Recorder is meant to appear as a disk or storage device? I think the first thing to do is use lsusb to get the vendor / device ids and lshw to see what it looks like to the Linux machine. If it is a storage or disk device then pluging it in would probably need to load the 'usb_storage' kernel module (i.e. the 'usb-storage' driver). My guess is that if Windows needs some sort of driver to access the device then it is not a storage class device. On Thu, 10 Mar 2011, Kenneth Caldwell wrote: I have a flyWithCE Flight Recorder and Logbook software which can extract the igc, kml and nmea files from the recorder and copy them to my computer running Windows XP. It would be very convenient if I could copy the files from the flight recorder directly to my laptop running a version of Linux. The flight recorder does not appear as a USB flash drive nor as a USB HDD. Does anyone on this list know of a way to get the Flight Recorder to talk to a Linux computer? Ken Caldwell Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight Safety
Hi Simon; On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Simon Hackett wrote: How does the old saying go? Most generalisations are in accurate, including this one For what its worth, I've airfreighted 6831 lithium ion batteries (charged) in the belly of 747's across the Pacific multiple times in the last few years. They were wrapped up in a Tesla Roadster - which has permission to be freighted in this way because its installation is highly safe and actively controlled. My understanding is that the source of thermal runaway here is related to loose batteries shorting out in transit - which would certainly be a bad thing (noting that I've not read the issue concerned as yet as the CASA carrier pigeon does not yet appear to have reached my office). One of the chief problems with lithium ion batteries is that thermal runaway can be initiated by mechanical reconfiguration of the battery or failure of the circuity internal to the battery. My point here, in practice, is that there is a distinction between LiIon arrays that are hard wired into operational units under active control, versus loose batteries (or batteries that can become loose) that aren't actually being conditioned by active circuits. I guess point is that saying that the article below implies that its unsafe to run LiIon in your wings is a bit disingenuous without pointing out that the energy stored in them is a tiny fraction of the energy stored in an equivalent volume of 100LL or Jet A1 sitting in the wings of an aircraft. The destructive potential of the latter dwarfs that of the former, and yet, surprisingly, I find that we still seem to commit aviation in aircraft powered by such a dangerous energy source as liquid fuel regardless of the manifest risks. The destructive potential of lithium ion batteries and Jet A1 in the wing together is much greater than either of those two items in the wing alone. Once your wind full of 100LL is burning, its also a tad harder to stop it burning than it is to disconnect a battery. Strange world, isn't it. Everyone has their agenda, and seems happy to find evidence to fit their presumption of the outcome before doing the analysis (and I do not claim that I am an exception in this regard, being human). Simon On 04/03/2011, at 12:30 PM, DMcD wrote: The latest issue of the CAA Flight Safety comic has just arrived. There's a fun article on Lithium Batteries The Cargo from Hell. The headline says Lithium batteries are emerging as a 21st century aviation hazard. Fun reading for electro-power enthusiasts. Probably best not to store them anywhere important? like in your wings. D Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] proposed windfarms? Somewhat OT
Hi; On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 04:23 AM 5/03/2011, you wrote: Everyone to his/her own. Soaring must be useless too, as you can only do it in the daytime. Personally, I just try to gather the distance during those daylight hours. Even more useless: For reference, the total home electricity bill for the last ten years has been US$505.74. I'd conservatively estimate a quarter of that is for connection to the grid. 95% of the energy is photovoltaic, sleeping at night like the useless AS-W27 or any of it's predecessors. I wanted to do something and went for it. The cost is far below that of a new car. Don't just complain, install a cold fusion generator in the garden shed! Jim We know soaring is useless. As you obviously didn't get it the first time I'll repeat We're talking about powering our technical civilisation not pandering to the eccentric hobbies of the idle rich. Soaring and solar power are both in that category. By solar power I take it that you mean Photovoltaic Solar Power. Mike Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Forgery and sabotage
Too easy. I'm not impressed. Now hacking the space segment in order to get the flight you want - that's impressive. :) On Thu, 20 Jan 2011, Mark Newton wrote: Amazing the kind of stuff that's available off-the-shelf these days. I reckon if you put one of these and a IGC-approved logger into a barometric chamber, you can create the world record datalogger trace of your choice: http://labsat.co.uk/ The labsat unit takes a GPS or GNSS datafile and plays it back as RF, so a nearby GPS device will actually believe that it has followed the course described by the trace. With a barometric chamber you get the pressure altitude axis as well. The result will be a datafile you can extract from your IGC-approved logger which says pretty much whatever you want it to say. It costs about UKP7000, so you might want to buy into one in a syndicate with other like-minded cheats. Tell you what, I'll claim the distance record, why don't you claim the speed-around- a-300km-triangle record? Meanwhile, there're also ways of preventing other people from getting logger traces. For about twenty bucks you can get one of these: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35827 Couple it with a 12V power source and hide it in the tiedown kit bag in whichever aircraft is at the top of a competition leaderboard to produce a I would have won that comp if it weren't for that goddamn GPS malfunction! result. Maybe you're not even competing in the comp, you just want to stir trouble 'cos you're taking the piss. It comes with free delivery :-) The equipment required to both forge and sabotage GPS traces is readily available off-the-shelf at prices that individuals can afford. For how long will GPS continue to be trusted for world record and competition claims? Will we get back to using barographs and cameras? Are the requirements on official observers good enough to protect against forgery? I love the 21st century :-) - mark Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] IS28 Trailer
Hi Adam; A Blanik trailer? How cruel. :-) On Fri, 19 Nov 2010, Adam Webb wrote: Hi All, The Australian Junior GC is looking for a trailer to transport its 'new' IS28 around this Summer (initially from Bunyan to Narromine), until we can get a more permanent solution sorted. Does anyone know of a trailer which could be used for this? Possibly a Blanik trailer which is sitting idle and wouldn't require too much in the way of modification? If anyone knows of any options, please let me know! Cheers Adam Webb Pres AJGC Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] IS28 Trailer
Hi Kym; We have a Blanik in our club so we are all following the story closely. I hope a fix does arrive. However, its my guess that any fix will cost more than the aircraft is worth and this will kill the whole thing. On Sat, 20 Nov 2010, Kym Z wrote: Don't scrap the Blanik's yet, they are aiming for a solution by first quarter 2011... although that doesn't help us for this soaring season :( Regarding the trailers, I'd say that many Blanik trailers may have their Blanik housed on them at the moment to save space while they are grounded (ours is at RGC). Kym Z. On 19/11/2010 5:54 PM, Peter F Bradshaw wrote: Hi Adam; A Blanik trailer? How cruel. :-) On Fri, 19 Nov 2010, Adam Webb wrote: Hi All, The Australian Junior GC is looking for a trailer to transport its 'new' IS28 around this Summer (initially from Bunyan to Narromine), until we can get a more permanent solution sorted. Does anyone know of a trailer which could be used for this? Possibly a Blanik trailer which is sitting idle and wouldn't require too much in the way of modification? If anyone knows of any options, please let me know! Cheers Adam Webb Pres AJGC Cheers Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Even a Tupolev jet has a glide path (sort of).....
Hi Peter; Some more pictures at: http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2010/09/08/emergency-landing-of-tu-154/#more-17798 On Sat, 11 Sep 2010, Peter Stephenson wrote: I would be interested to hear the full story of why they had to land so precipitously. They had power enough to use the reverse thrust buckets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154 and the incident is already listed. :-) PeterS On 9/09/2010 12:48 PM, Nelson Handcock wrote: Breaking News - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/miracle-crash-landing-for-rus sian-jet/story-fn3dxity-1225916371347 Certainly some very lucky people! Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle
Hi; I agree. There was almost no lookout at all. Most suprising to me was that the instructor was not keeping a good lookout. On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Roger Browne wrote: I am concerned that lookout appears to have been inadequate, especially to the right hand side. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Sean Jorgensen-Day Sent: 11 April 2010 11:05 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle If you are going to criticise be specific about the issues. What are the issues you are worried about? Explain them. If you do not explain the mere mortals in the real world are not able to learn. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Roger Browne Sent: Sunday, 11 April 2010 10:14 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Agreed. Roger Browne From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Dave Donald Sent: 11 April 2010 8:56 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle I'm just curious about what type of check flight this was? They can have various flavours, but I've got some serious issues about this one, even at the most basic level. Dave _ From: John Parncutt jparn...@bigpond.net.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sun, 11 April, 2010 7:42:10 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Hi, For those interested hereâs my most recent video taken at Bacchus Marsh on Saturday. Matthew Milsom in the front seat having a check flight with Alan Payne our CFI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu0fbph5-Aw Cheers, John Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle
Hi; On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, james crowhurst wrote: I'm concerned that it was dangerously boring. But then again, you wouldn't want to do a turn or a turn reversal in a Puchacz.it'll spin and kill you! What do you mean? Nice camera angle though! Aeros would be good using that mount. Jim From: oz...@bigpond.net.au To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 06:35:33 +1000 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle I am concerned that lookout appears to have been inadequate, especially to the right hand side. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Sean Jorgensen-Day Sent: 11 April 2010 11:05 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle If you are going to criticise be specific about the issues. What are the issues you are worried about? Explain them. If you do not explain the mere mortals in the real world are not able to learn. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Roger Browne Sent: Sunday, 11 April 2010 10:14 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Agreed. Roger Browne From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Dave Donald Sent: 11 April 2010 8:56 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle I'm just curious about what type of check flight this was? They can have various flavours, but I've got some serious issues about this one, even at the most basic level. Dave From: John Parncutt jparn...@bigpond.net.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sun, 11 April, 2010 7:42:10 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Another video - different camera angle Hi, For those interested here?s my most recent video taken at Bacchus Marsh on Saturday. Matthew Milsom in the front seat having a check flight with Alan Payne our CFI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu0fbph5-Aw Cheers, John Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Climate Issues
Hi Christopher; Ha, Ha. Very good. But I'm intrigued. How is Dallas equivalent to Alice Springs? On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: For Mike David. A Congressman(a USA politician who could also be a Senator as they are both members of Congress) was seated next to a little girl on the airplane leaving from Dallas (somewhat equivalent to Alice Springs in Australia) when he turned to her and said, 'Let's talk. I've heard that flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger.' The little girl, who had just opened her book, closed it slowly and said to the total stranger, 'What would you like to talk about?' 'Oh, I don't know,' said the congressman. 'How about global warming or universal health care', and he smiles smugly. OK, ' she said. 'Those could be interesting topics. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?' The legislator, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, 'Hmmm, I have no idea..' To which the little girl replies, 'Do you really feel qualified to discuss global warming or universal health care when you don't know shit? Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] TV portrayal.
Hi Derek; Thanks. These are interesting. I would like to see some broader based stats. analyzed in the same manner as done in this paper. On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Derek Ruddock wrote: There are some statistics in the following report. http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/oar/download/gaap_report_v2.pdf -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of David Lawley Sent: Tuesday, 9 February 2010 1:44 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] TV portrayal. Hi all, Dave Donald wrote; I thought it was absolute crap, and did nothing for the image of gliding. The segment started with (words to the effect) sure it's dangerous, they crash all the time. Great stuff. Crap? The great pity it is that statement is true, or dont you see the regular posts about gliding accidents both here and overseas? I can post at least 10 links to fatal accident reports form last year if you wish. You are fooling yourself Dave. Would you prefer they lied and said oh no it is perfectly safe? Some years ago I saw some materials relating to the accident rate/hr in gliding compared to other forms of aviation. It was not comforting reading. It was also shown after a segment where they all went bungee jumping so is this where we want our sport to be positioned, and the type of people we will attract? Yes it is. Did you read Martin Feeg's last column in Feb Soaring Australia? You are a classic example of the problem he talked about. If we want to have a healthy growing sport, we need to change our attitude, and break the groupthink monoculture that is entrenched. Garbage like this we don't need. Could you make a more arrogant and elitist cooment than that? The 1950's phoned, they want their attitude back. Pathetic Dave. If people are attracted to the sport for the perceived danger, then we're going about this the wrong way. Are you saying the abject failiure to grow over the last 30 years is the right way? You could not be more wrong-the sports that offer such percieved danger are healthy, gliding is not. It is perception of danger we can use for promotion not the actuality of it. If someone is attracted by the danger element, it does not follow they will fly in a dangerous manner. Going by this show a spin is dangerous, and we are all trained to recover from them safely. Sometimes it is PERCEPTION of danger that attracts people, even if they only turn up for an AEF we have improved the financial viability of our sport, and have no other way of gaining members. And for the people who say 'any publicity is good publicity' ought to watch this drivel and rethink their stance. Or you should realise how all current promotions have failed us and wake up to see the modern world, not the world of the 50's. No wonder were in such deep doo if crap attitudes like yours prevail. I think the program is an excellent a positive in attracting people to our sport-as long as they dont run into the likes of yourself. Why do you think we have a tiny minority of under 30's? Because we are dominated in the sport by a bunch of OLD in both age and attitude people determined to only have like minded people involved. Thinking differently is actively discouraged. Read Martins extremely perceptive piece again and ponder. Unf%*...@believable Dave L Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] TV portrayal.
Hi Mike; On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Mike Borgelt wrote: At 09:33 AM 11/02/2010, you wrote: Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_2379FBB18D997A4BABA42F7F56E4BF6E0361598099excprdmbxw001_ There are some statistics in the following report. http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/oar/download/gaap_report_v2.pdfhttp://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/oar/download/gaap_report_v2.pdf - I found some stats at the end which don't seem to mean much. Where in the 320 pages are the stats you refer to? Unfortunately, this paper is only dealing with collision risk at one airfield (Camden, NSW). Having said that these are the best stats I have seen regarding glider safety (or otherwise). There seems to be very little emperically based published material on overall glider safety. I think table 11.2 on page 145 is the one you are looking for. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] TV portrayal.
Hi Mike; I agree about the narrow basis of the report. The question is does anybody know of a report that is in the context of glider safety? On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, Mike Cleaver wrote: Let me tell you some facts about the report that Derek quotes: 1. It was about risks of mid-air collision at a GAAP aerodrome when the GAAP ATC service was operating - no other risks involved for gliders or anybody else, or anywhere else. 2. It was prompted by mid-air collisions at GAAP aerodromes (Archerfiled, Bankstown, Camden, Moorabbin, Parafiled and Jandakot only) in the past 10 years and hence is slewed by recent accidents (2 at Bankstown, thus the risks there are assessed as Intolerable). 3. According to the report, fitting every GA aircraft at these aerodromes with FLARM for use as a traffic alert measure would give a positive cost-benefit of $11.7 million - the greatest positive outcome of all options canvassed. 4. The report did not seem to even mention the fact that Bankstown (the highest risk historically) has been reduced from 5 runways to just 1, and Moorabbin from 7 to 3, over the past 30 years. 5. The report shows that there were actually NO mid-air collisions at GAAP aerodromes between 1990-1999 when the traffic movements peaked, compared to 8 collisions from 1968 - 1978 (before GAAP procedures) , 3 or 4 in the next 10-year period, and 6 from 2000 to 2008 after traffic levels, and service levels provided by Airservices Australia, had declined. 6. As an overall risk indicator for gliding the reports is useless; and finally 7. The Government / Minister / CASA Office of Airspace Management have announced plans to introduce changes that were different from those the consultants (Ambidji Group) recommended, and in many ways went quite contrary to the recommendations. So much for statistics when they are taken out of context! (and the same comment applies to the first 5 glider accident reports that DL quoted: 2 in Australia, 2 in New Zealand and 1 in Switzerland in the past 2 years. I thought we were discussing perceived risk in Australia last year. Wombat At 10:33 11/02/2010, Derek wrote: There are some statistics in the following report. http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/oar/download/gaap_report_v2.pdfhttp://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/oar/download/gaap_report_v2.pdf -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of David Lawley Sent: Tuesday, 9 February 2010 1:44 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] TV portrayal. Dave Donald wrote; The segment started with (words to the effect) sure it's dangerous, they crash all the time. Crap? The great pity it is that statement is true, or dont you see the regular posts about gliding accidents both here and overseas? Sometimes it is PERCEPTION of danger that attracts people, even if they only turn up for an AEF we have improved the financial viability of our sport, and have no other way of gaining members. Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] TV portrayal.
Hi Dave; I wish you would post the links. Using Google I can find no coherent list of links about glider accidents. On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, David Lawley wrote: . . . . I can post at least 10 links to fatal accident reports form last year if you wish. You are fooling yourself Dave. . . . . Dave L Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] forum format
Hi Bob; There is already a Web forum at: http://www.gliderforum.com/ I have been using email forums sice the 1980s. So you are right - it is so 20th century. But it is so much more efficient than a Web based forum. P.S. I think you will find that there is not much activity on the Web forum given above. Everybody is here, on the email list. On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, Bob Dircks wrote: It seems I'm not doing it wrong, just that I've bbe spoilt by real forum format. Would this group consider a change to a real forum ? This is 20th century stuff! Bob On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org wrote: On 24/11/2009, at 22:35, Bob Dircks dircks@gmail.com wrote: Am I doing it wrong ? Yep. ...OR. am I suggesting that the forum finds a supplier of better format ? Aus-Soaring is a mailing list, not a web forum. You're supposed to interact with it using your mail client. It's entirely possible that you've found some third-party web gateway, but that's nothing to do with us, and if it feels clumsy you'd best complain to whoever is providing it. - mark Cheers -- Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there). Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com I love truth, and the way the government still uses it occasionally to keep us guessing. - Sam Kekovich. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
