Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots

[rolf a. buelter]

Hi Gary,
 





You Wrote:

You seem to be saying that conditions are so bad at your home
airfield – Bacchus Marsh -  that (most times), you fully expect to
be in a paddock if you attempt a X/C flight in a K13 from your  airfield.  
?? That's exactly what I'm saying. And please also bear in mind that I 
said a flight within gliding range is not an introduction to x-country but at 
best a thermalling exercise. Please also realise that this is written by 
somebody who at this point in time flies more x-country out of BM than anybody 
else and is an active coach. You also wrote:There has been some suggestions 
that a good trailer is almost essential for road retrieves. What a load of 
rot!My answer to your post was mainly an attempt to voice my opposition to your 
disdain for good trailers. To further demonstrate allow me a quote from the US 
gliding forum on discussion what glider to buy:"Get the best trailer you can 
afford and take whatever glider is in it".A little extreme but he got a point. 
Best Regards - Rolf Rgds - Rolf 

 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots

[rolf a. buelter]

Hi Harry,
 
I don't mind to be in a paddock during a camp, nowhere to go to at night anyway 
and always a willing retrieve crew available. During weekends I can imagine 
nicer ways to spend my Saturday and Sunday evenings. Where I fly from landing 
spots with assured paddock retrieve are few and far between. The airspace, 
meteorological and orographic circumstances make an out landing in such a 
glider more likely than a return on even moderately good days. Agree that not 
every club can be as fortunate as ours to have a Duo but the $$$ you mention 
are quite exaggerated. A used Duo can be much less than that. And a 21 can not 
be compared with a Ka7 or ASK 13.
 
Best Regards - Rolf
 
From: hw.medlic...@optusnet.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:44:33 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots







Rolf is right. A DuoDiscus or similar is an easy and pleasant way to fly a 
cross country training flight. However not all and probably a minority of clubs 
have access to a two seater glider costing perhaps $200,000 new.
 
Please don’t discount what is achievable in a glider of the capability of 
an ASK21 on a moderately good soaring day. At Gulgong we had K7 competitions 
with up to 7 X K7s flying and the odd Berkfalke or Blanik.  Without the 
benefit of currently available meteorological information, the tasks were in 
the 
range of over 100 km up to 250 km. Nearly all gliders got around the tasks. 
Sure 
it took a bit longer with maximum speeds about 60 knots but they were a lot of 
fun. These gliders may not go very fast between thermals, but they certainly 
feel the lift and climb well.  Pretty useful in a training situation with 
an experienced pilot on board.
 
At lake Keepit we have a data base of airfields and it is possible to set 
tasks which keep the gliders pretty close to one. Landing on an airfield either 
allows an aerotow or easy retrieve. Distances are not all that huge and 
retrieves no great problem with a reasonable trailer.  
 
So please don’t frighten off those clubs or pilots without the latest 
and  greatest, 
 
Harry Medlicott
 
 
 


 

From: rolf a. buelter 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 1:18 PM
To: aus soaring 
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
 

Dear Gary,
 
I beg to differ from your opinion. On a 
lazy Sunday afternoon I'm happy to embark on a cross country coaching flight in 
our Duo as I expect to be back in time for a refreshing drink and still return 
to my home at a christian time. With an ASK 13 and an crappy old trailer I 
expect to outland, spend three hours in a fly blown paddock and then 2 hour in 
the dark to put the glider into a crappy old trailer, return to the airfield 
around mid night and be in my bed earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I 
inflict the same fate on at least 3 other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight 
within gliding range of an ASK 13 to the aerodrome  does not qualify as a 
x-country coaching flight. At best it represents some thermalling 
practice.
To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to 
answer if you prefer not to:
How many cross country coaching flights have you 
conducted over the last 24 months?
How many of those were in an ASK 13 or 
similar performance glider?
How many of these gliders had a crappy old 
trailer?
How many ended in an out landing?
Come to think of it - how many 
out landings did you do last 24 months? To out myself - I have done 4 or 5 
pre-arranged training ones and none in anger.
 
With kindest Regards 
- Rolf
 

> From: gstev...@bigpond.com
> To: 
aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 
+1100
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
> 
> Hi 
Derek,
> Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email, 
but as no one else seems to have made comment on your suggestion, let me say 
that you have summed up the entire discussion in a single line. Well 
done.
> 
> As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), 
should not exceed 3 hours. 
> 
> There has been some suggestions 
that a good trailer is almost essential for road retrieves. What a load of rot! 
A good trailer is a great asset, but it is by no means essential. What IS 
ESSENTIAL is that the pilot intending to go X/C is totally familiar with the 
workings of the trailer that IS available. Quite simply, if the pilot is not 
familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for that pilot until this exercise is 
done. 
> 
> Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and 
make a few improvements to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal 
(almost always!), but in my experience, this is a rare occurrence 
indeed.
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> -Original 
Message-
> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek 
Ruddock
> Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM
> To: 'Discuss

Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots

[rolf a. buelter]

Dear Gary,
 
I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm happy to 
embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I expect to be back in 
time for a refreshing drink and still return to my home at a christian time. 
With an ASK 13 and an crappy old trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours 
in a fly blown paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a 
crappy old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my bed 
earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate on at least 3 
other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within gliding range of an ASK 13 to 
the aerodrome  does not qualify as a x-country coaching flight. At best it 
represents some thermalling practice.
To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to answer if 
you prefer not to:
How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the last 24 
months?
How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider?
How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer?
How many ended in an out landing?
Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24 months? To out 
myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training ones and none in anger.
 
With kindest Regards - Rolf
 
> From: gstev...@bigpond.com
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
> 
> Hi Derek,
> Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email, but as no one 
> else seems to have made comment on your suggestion, let me say that you have 
> summed up the entire discussion in a single line. Well done.
> 
> As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not exceed 3 
> hours. 
> 
> There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost essential for 
> road retrieves. What a load of rot! A good trailer is a great asset, but it 
> is by no means essential. What IS ESSENTIAL is that the pilot intending to go 
> X/C is totally familiar with the workings of the trailer that IS available. 
> Quite simply, if the pilot is not familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for 
> that pilot until this exercise is done. 
> 
> Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and make a few improvements 
> to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal (almost always!), but in my 
> experience, this is a rare occurrence indeed.
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock
> Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
> 
> You don't need a DG1000: take the K13! (but don't go as far :) )
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of DMcD
> Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 6:02 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
> 
> >>the GFA pilot training programme for more cross-country exposure during the 
> >>ab-initio stage.
> 
> Who said that!
> 
> If only that happened more during training. IMHO, that's the single most 
> important thing for a club to do when trying to make the conversion from 
> student pilot to addicted and committed flyer. Having done enough HG flying 
> to know what I was up for, the endless circuit training did not kill my 
> enthusiasm but it can.
> 
> My son said at one point that he was wondering what it was all about until he 
> got to cloud base on day… and I don't think anyone ever took him XC during 
> training.
> 
> I have tried to persuade our club to stop the clock and some point and say to 
> students at some point, "this is not being charged for… we're going to fly 
> somewhere for an hour to show you why we all do it."
> 
> I'm sure it would make a big difference to the number of pilots who drop out 
> after going solo. But then we don't have something like the DG which would 
> make getting home more likely than in a Grob or K21
> :-)
> 
> D
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Press

[rolf a. buelter]

Clearly you all got that completely wrong. It is very likely that the wind 
stopped, he then pushed the wrong button and fell from the sky. When at 3,200 
ft he remembered the right button, pushed it and landed.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 16:35:09 +1100
From: plchampn...@gmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press

Do you have email in antartica Scott?  Life seems far too easy down there these 
days.
On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Scott Penrose  wrote:
First sentence says he crashed. Last one said he landed in a paddock without 
incident. Don’t they need to pick one.
Scott
On 9 Jan 2015, at 11:44 am, Nelson Handcock  wrote:

Outlanding equals crash according to this media...


http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/2805595/glider-pilot-found-safe/?cs=148

Thanks & Regards,

Nelson Handcock
0409 149919

http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 131, Issue 22

[rolf a. buelter]

Am afraid that Specialty Foams comes to about double the price per cushion, all 
cost included. Rgds - Rolf
 
> From: jon...@iinet.net.au
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:25:44 -0400
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 131, Issue 22
> 
> Why on earth would you pay $200 to import Confor foam from overseas when you 
> can buy it in Australia?
> 
> Just Google specialtyfoams.com.au
> 
> Sure it is in WA but must still be cheaper than overseas freight.
> 
> Kind Regards
> Owen 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On 19 Aug 2014, at 10:30 pm, aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to
> >aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >   1. Re: Confor Foam (Mike Borgelt)
> >   2. Re: Confor Foam (rolf a. buelter)
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 10:36:04 +1000
> > From: Mike Borgelt 
> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
> > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> >
> > Message-ID: <3a2b83$sro...@ipmail07.adl2.internode.on.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
> > 
> > At 09:00 AM 20/08/2014, you wrote:
> >> ..snip..
> >> Shipping has become very expensive
> >> 
> >> Dennis
> > 
> > 
> > It sure has, both into and out of Australia.
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring 
> > instrumentation since 1978
> > www.borgeltinstruments.com
> > tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> > mob: 042835 5784:  int+61-42835 5784
> > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia  
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: 
> > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20140820/504b8b21/attachment.html>
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 11:26:19 +1000
> > From: "rolf a. buelter" 
> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
> > To: aus soaring 
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > Just to clarify - the sheets and prices I cited earlier yield 4 cushions 
> > 400 X 450 mm. I purchased 7 each and freight was just over US $ 200.-. Each 
> > cushion came to A $ 40.- landed on my door step.
> > 
> > Rgds - Rolf
> > 
> > From: rbuel...@hotmail.com
> > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> > Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
> > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:48:22 +1000
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I just recently bought a quantity of Sunmate from Dynamic Systems for our 
> > club and a few syndicate gliders. It costs less than Confor and for all I 
> > know same or similar material. They were very good to deal with. Transport 
> > of fluffy stuff is not cheap and it's worthwhile to combine orders. For our 
> > purpose we chose to go two layered; one layer of SunMate firm, 1", list 
> > price US $ 65.- for a piece of  32" X 37" and one layer of SunMate medium 
> > soft, 1/2", list price US $ 33.- for a piece of 32" X 37".My contact at 
> > Dynamic Systems was Ellie Brown, d...@sunmatecushions.com. Rgds - Rolf
> > 
> >> From: gstev...@bigpond.com
> >> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> >> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:39:43 +1000
> >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
> >> 
> >> Richard,
> >> I am pleased that you are considering this: Use in your cockpit might save
> >> your spine/life one day.
> >> The subject of an Oz supplier comes up ti

Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam

[rolf a. buelter]

Just to clarify - the sheets and prices I cited earlier yield 4 cushions 400 X 
450 mm. I purchased 7 each and freight was just over US $ 200.-. Each cushion 
came to A $ 40.- landed on my door step.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
From: rbuel...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:48:22 +1000










I just recently bought a quantity of Sunmate from Dynamic Systems for our club 
and a few syndicate gliders. It costs less than Confor and for all I know same 
or similar material. They were very good to deal with. Transport of fluffy 
stuff is not cheap and it's worthwhile to combine orders. For our purpose we 
chose to go two layered; one layer of SunMate firm, 1", list price US $ 65.- 
for a piece of  32" X 37" and one layer of SunMate medium soft, 1/2", list 
price US $ 33.- for a piece of 32" X 37".My contact at Dynamic Systems was 
Ellie Brown, d...@sunmatecushions.com. Rgds - Rolf
 
> From: gstev...@bigpond.com
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:39:43 +1000
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
> 
> Richard,
> I am pleased that you are considering this: Use in your cockpit might save
> your spine/life one day.
> The subject of an Oz supplier comes up time and time again.
> Note that Confor is just a brand name.
> There is one supplier in WA who imports the stuff from the USA in large
> lumps, called billets - they cut what you want off this lump. However don't
> bother: their price is totally unrealistic. I note that Jeff Farrow has
> pinned this supplier for you. 
> Your cheapest option is to import what you need direct from the USA.
> Here are a couple of names from the USA for you to Google: Dynamic Systems
> Inc - they originated the stuff, and Sunmate. 
> You will note that there are many densities available. You will find that
> layers of different densities can be combined. However, as fascinating as
> this subject might be, it is unlikely that you will need to go down this
> route.   As always, do your research. Ambient temperature is a relevant
> factor. What is ideal in Finland (say), will not be ideal in most of
> Australia, as the temperature here is generally MUCH hotter. The higher the
> temp, the firmer the foam needs to be.
> Given the recent distressing post from Cumulus Soaring, this might be a
> possible source of supply for you.
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Richard
> Frawley
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2014 8:59 PM
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
> 
> has anyone found a source for this foam in Oz?
> 
> 
> At 06:33 AM 19/08/2014, you wrote:
> >Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to
> > aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net
> >
> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net
> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..."
> >
> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> >1. Microair M720 VHF radio service support (Michael Eales)
> >2. Latest virgin promo code (Justin Sinclair)
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:27:37 +0800
> >From: Michael Eales 
> >Subject: [Aus-soaring] Microair M720 VHF radio service support
> >To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> > 
> >Message-ID:
> >
> 
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >The club recently tried to get a Microair M720 serviced with the Microair
> >folks in Bunderberg, however we were informed that they no longer service
> >the 720's
> >
> >They use to have a "Best Effort" approach to these radio's in the past as I
> >believe the company inherited them with the name even though they were not
> >the original development company.
> >Apparently there has been a change of management and a decision was reach
> >to no longer support these radio's.
> >
> >They are an old radio, but it was working fine till recently.
> >Does anybody out there know of any other reputable service agents that has
> >the kit to handle a M720?
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Michael.
> >-- next part --
> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >URL: 
> > 0819/9171d170/attachment.html>
> >
> >--
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:33:45 +1000
> >From: Justin Sinclair 
> >Subject: [Aus-soaring] Latest virgin promo code

Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam

[rolf a. buelter]

I just recently bought a quantity of Sunmate from Dynamic Systems for our club 
and a few syndicate gliders. It costs less than Confor and for all I know same 
or similar material. They were very good to deal with. Transport of fluffy 
stuff is not cheap and it's worthwhile to combine orders. For our purpose we 
chose to go two layered; one layer of SunMate firm, 1", list price US $ 65.- 
for a piece of  32" X 37" and one layer of SunMate medium soft, 1/2", list 
price US $ 33.- for a piece of 32" X 37".My contact at Dynamic Systems was 
Ellie Brown, d...@sunmatecushions.com. Rgds - Rolf
 
> From: gstev...@bigpond.com
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:39:43 +1000
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
> 
> Richard,
> I am pleased that you are considering this: Use in your cockpit might save
> your spine/life one day.
> The subject of an Oz supplier comes up time and time again.
> Note that Confor is just a brand name.
> There is one supplier in WA who imports the stuff from the USA in large
> lumps, called billets - they cut what you want off this lump. However don't
> bother: their price is totally unrealistic. I note that Jeff Farrow has
> pinned this supplier for you. 
> Your cheapest option is to import what you need direct from the USA.
> Here are a couple of names from the USA for you to Google: Dynamic Systems
> Inc - they originated the stuff, and Sunmate. 
> You will note that there are many densities available. You will find that
> layers of different densities can be combined. However, as fascinating as
> this subject might be, it is unlikely that you will need to go down this
> route.   As always, do your research. Ambient temperature is a relevant
> factor. What is ideal in Finland (say), will not be ideal in most of
> Australia, as the temperature here is generally MUCH hotter. The higher the
> temp, the firmer the foam needs to be.
> Given the recent distressing post from Cumulus Soaring, this might be a
> possible source of supply for you.
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Richard
> Frawley
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2014 8:59 PM
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Confor Foam
> 
> has anyone found a source for this foam in Oz?
> 
> 
> At 06:33 AM 19/08/2014, you wrote:
> >Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to
> > aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net
> >
> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net
> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..."
> >
> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> >1. Microair M720 VHF radio service support (Michael Eales)
> >2. Latest virgin promo code (Justin Sinclair)
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:27:37 +0800
> >From: Michael Eales 
> >Subject: [Aus-soaring] Microair M720 VHF radio service support
> >To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> > 
> >Message-ID:
> >
> 
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >The club recently tried to get a Microair M720 serviced with the Microair
> >folks in Bunderberg, however we were informed that they no longer service
> >the 720's
> >
> >They use to have a "Best Effort" approach to these radio's in the past as I
> >believe the company inherited them with the name even though they were not
> >the original development company.
> >Apparently there has been a change of management and a decision was reach
> >to no longer support these radio's.
> >
> >They are an old radio, but it was working fine till recently.
> >Does anybody out there know of any other reputable service agents that has
> >the kit to handle a M720?
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Michael.
> >-- next part --
> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >URL: 
> > 0819/9171d170/attachment.html>
> >
> >--
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:33:45 +1000
> >From: Justin Sinclair 
> >Subject: [Aus-soaring] Latest virgin promo code
> >To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> > 
> >Message-ID: <675f27b0-ef7e-460f-9242-715174681...@optusnet.com.au>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >Hope it helps someone out.
> >
> >Justin
> >
> >
> >
> >Good Afternoon All,
> >
> >As we move past the half-way point of another busy year, it?s 
> >important to t

[Aus-soaring] Impact Absorbing Foam

[rolf a. buelter]

Has anybody bought or used Sunmate (Dynamic Systems) foam and if so what 
hardness grade?
 
Rolf
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Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam

[rolf a. buelter]

Didn't read quote thoroughly first time - $ 120.- is for 20 mm, $ 150.- same 
size but 25 mm, both plus GST plus postage & handling.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
From: rbuel...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] confor foam
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 15:08:32 +1000




Just got a quote from Specialty Foams, $ 120.- for a piece 500 mm X 1,000 mm 
plus postage & handling. Forgot to ask colour or hardness though.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
From: gstev...@bigpond.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:59:57 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam














 Yeah, Paul Remde of Cumulus Soaring makes exactly the same
point on his web site about the hardness of the green (CF-47) foam.

 

One other (practical) point. You can shape this stuff with a
band-saw or jig-saw. An electric carving knife is extremely handy for
applications where the other two saws won’t do, or won’t fit, eg
like tapering the thickness.

 

If you don’t have these tools – or can’t be
bothered - maybe Speciality Foams in WA would shape the foam for you (at an
extra cost), if you sent them a template of the shape you require.

 

Gary

 



From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc
Phee

Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 1:08 PM

To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.

Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam



 

Well explained Gary.  Yes green is the most dense and have bought same
from WA at John Vineys suggestion. In cold green can be a bit of a solid
board.  Mr demo is usually 1inch of blue (green works as well) on a brick
wall and drive my fist with full strength and it never ever hurts.


In confor it goes green, blue, pink, yellow & or white. Only the first
two pass my test if 1 inch thick. 


Yellow is too soft but may work if 2 inch thick.?? Aldi had such pads last
week but it is only for comfort & not for crash back protection I
believe.  I am yet to see a local foam product (except green from WA) meet
my fist test thus order the correct product & you have back insurance for
LIFE for $50.


Ian mcp


(a baby with a helmet band arrangement of
confor can fall head first one to cement floor without damage) 








On 07/04/2014 11:29 AM, "Gary Stevenson"  wrote:

>

> These people get the foam in a large billet, and will cut you a piece to
the

> size and thickness required. From memory, their price was NOT competitive,

> but that was years ago - maybe they now do a better deal?

>

> Confor  is a brand name, and other manufacturers (in the USA), make
similar

> products. Note the plural in products: As well as different thicknesses
the

> foam is made in different densities, which are usually colour coded. For

> Confor, green is the way to go. I think the blue product that Ian refers
to

> MAY be produced by another manufacturer. Ian??

>

> To the best of my knowledge this type of foam is not manufactured in

> Australia. Can anybody prove me wrong/advise of an Australian
manufacturer?

>

> I note that Cumulus Soaring in the States is also a retail supplier.

>

> GFA on its old web site had a useful discussion on the product, but I do
not

> know if this information was carried across to the new site. Tim Shirley,
do

> you know?

>

> As a matter of interest the impact absorbing foam (Confor etc), can be

> layered with other products too. I bought a layer of memory foam (as used

> for comfort on some wheel-chairs), but never got around to actually making

> it up and using it with the Confor in my glider cushion.

>

> Regards,

> Gary

>

>

>

> -Original Message-

> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net

> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net]
On Behalf Of

> b_br...@tpg.com.au

> Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 9:58 AM

> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.

> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam

>

> Doesn't necessarily need to come from the States, though I am not sure of

> their pricing.

>

> http://specialtyfoams.com.au

>

>

>

> Regs

> Ben

>

>

> On Mon, Apr 7th, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Ian Mc Phee  wrote:

>

> > On Saturday at Chris Thorps GFA safety seminar at Archerfield I gave
a

> > demo

> > of  1 inch blue confor memory foam.  Some people there
obviously did not

> > know about confor foam and recently a friend of mine is a southern
state

> > was involved in a ground loop in ASK 13 caused by long grass catching
one

> > wing and other wing gaining extra lift and whole glider lifted in the

> > air.

> >  He was dumped from about 1metre leaving him with injured back for
2 or

> > so

> > months.  He knew nothing of confor foam' and did not have same.
Glider

> > was

> > all but undamaged.

> >

> > Here is the link to confor foam

> >

> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/conForFoan.php?clickkey=5944

> >

> > It does cost $US23.50 for BLUE PAD 1 inch think (is all you need for

> > protection) and po

Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam

[rolf a. buelter]

Just got a quote from Specialty Foams, $ 120.- for a piece 500 mm X 1,000 mm 
plus postage & handling. Forgot to ask colour or hardness though.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
From: gstev...@bigpond.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:59:57 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam














 Yeah, Paul Remde of Cumulus Soaring makes exactly the same
point on his web site about the hardness of the green (CF-47) foam.

 

One other (practical) point. You can shape this stuff with a
band-saw or jig-saw. An electric carving knife is extremely handy for
applications where the other two saws won’t do, or won’t fit, eg
like tapering the thickness.

 

If you don’t have these tools – or can’t be
bothered - maybe Speciality Foams in WA would shape the foam for you (at an
extra cost), if you sent them a template of the shape you require.

 

Gary

 



From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc
Phee

Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 1:08 PM

To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.

Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam



 

Well explained Gary.  Yes green is the most dense and have bought same
from WA at John Vineys suggestion. In cold green can be a bit of a solid
board.  Mr demo is usually 1inch of blue (green works as well) on a brick
wall and drive my fist with full strength and it never ever hurts.


In confor it goes green, blue, pink, yellow & or white. Only the first
two pass my test if 1 inch thick. 


Yellow is too soft but may work if 2 inch thick.?? Aldi had such pads last
week but it is only for comfort & not for crash back protection I
believe.  I am yet to see a local foam product (except green from WA) meet
my fist test thus order the correct product & you have back insurance for
LIFE for $50.


Ian mcp


(a baby with a helmet band arrangement of
confor can fall head first one to cement floor without damage) 








On 07/04/2014 11:29 AM, "Gary Stevenson"  wrote:

>

> These people get the foam in a large billet, and will cut you a piece to
the

> size and thickness required. From memory, their price was NOT competitive,

> but that was years ago - maybe they now do a better deal?

>

> Confor  is a brand name, and other manufacturers (in the USA), make
similar

> products. Note the plural in products: As well as different thicknesses
the

> foam is made in different densities, which are usually colour coded. For

> Confor, green is the way to go. I think the blue product that Ian refers
to

> MAY be produced by another manufacturer. Ian??

>

> To the best of my knowledge this type of foam is not manufactured in

> Australia. Can anybody prove me wrong/advise of an Australian
manufacturer?

>

> I note that Cumulus Soaring in the States is also a retail supplier.

>

> GFA on its old web site had a useful discussion on the product, but I do
not

> know if this information was carried across to the new site. Tim Shirley,
do

> you know?

>

> As a matter of interest the impact absorbing foam (Confor etc), can be

> layered with other products too. I bought a layer of memory foam (as used

> for comfort on some wheel-chairs), but never got around to actually making

> it up and using it with the Confor in my glider cushion.

>

> Regards,

> Gary

>

>

>

> -Original Message-

> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net

> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net]
On Behalf Of

> b_br...@tpg.com.au

> Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 9:58 AM

> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.

> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] confor foam

>

> Doesn't necessarily need to come from the States, though I am not sure of

> their pricing.

>

> http://specialtyfoams.com.au

>

>

>

> Regs

> Ben

>

>

> On Mon, Apr 7th, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Ian Mc Phee  wrote:

>

> > On Saturday at Chris Thorps GFA safety seminar at Archerfield I gave
a

> > demo

> > of  1 inch blue confor memory foam.  Some people there
obviously did not

> > know about confor foam and recently a friend of mine is a southern
state

> > was involved in a ground loop in ASK 13 caused by long grass catching
one

> > wing and other wing gaining extra lift and whole glider lifted in the

> > air.

> >  He was dumped from about 1metre leaving him with injured back for
2 or

> > so

> > months.  He knew nothing of confor foam' and did not have same.
Glider

> > was

> > all but undamaged.

> >

> > Here is the link to confor foam

> >

> > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/conForFoan.php?clickkey=5944

> >

> > It does cost $US23.50 for BLUE PAD 1 inch think (is all you need for

> > protection) and post per pad will be say $20 but that is minor to

> > injuries

> > it may prevent.

> >

> > Personally I will not sign a form 2 unless the glider is equipped
with

> > confor foam or they get a long talk that they have to order it NOW.

> >

> > We wear seat belts in gliders and cars always so

Re: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal

[rolf a. buelter]

As comp pilot permission of team flying will be a disincentive. Would not 
prevent me to come but together with other factors make it less likely.
 
As GFA member I would not welcome to subsidise towing cost for comp pilots, 
including myself.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
> From: go_soar...@hotmail.com
> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 10:43:35 +1000
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] The nationals: a proposal
> 
> G'day All,
> 
> What do you think of the below? 
> 
> Keen to hear from those who aren't going for team selection, would you still 
> turn up to the team selection years (or to the nationals that allowed pair 
> flying every other year)?
> 
> Also from non-comp pilots, how would you feel about the GFA spending money on 
> the tug ferry fees?
> 
> & from people who are generally in the organisation of comps, would this be 
> better or worse for you or your club?
> 
> What are other advantages & disadvantages that I've forgotten about? Or 
> points I've made, but over looked or got incorrect?
> 
> Other?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> WPP
> 
> 
> 
> As you're all aware, gliding in Australia is oversubscribed with 
> competitions, as well as the team selection process being far to onerous. I 
> have a simple solution to all this.
> 
> At the recent Waikerie Club & Sports Class Nationals, it was seen that it's 
> easily possible & safe to task wet & dry gliders together - using start lines.
> 
> I propose that we hold one nationals every biannual year, which will house 
> all classes - except 20m class. Run using the GFA national rules as it is now.
> 
> I propose we combine STD & 15m class together & run a '15m performance' 
> class, then award the highest placed STD & Racing class glider/pilot as the 
> national champion - for history sake. Why run it as a combined class? It's 
> not as much fun flying against 7 other competitors, when you could be 
> challenging yourself against 30 plus others!
> 
> The same could be said for 18m & Open Class, combine them (as they often are) 
> as an 'Open' Class. The only difference here, the 18m gliders/pilots would 
> have to declare what class they were going for the national champion title in.
> 
> Alternatively, have the 18m & Open Class separate - & only combine them 
> should the Open entries be not enough to make its own class outright. Again 
> though, is competing against 7 other gliders that much fun?
> 
> Club would be run as it is now. Simple.
> 
> How many competitors would this attract at a site? Probably 80-90 odd 
> gliders. That's crazy I hear you say. Not really, in years gone past they 
> used to get those numbers (& more!) & managed.
> 
> Gliding is shrinking. The only clubs that are running nationals now are big 
> clubs, & are all at sites where they can handle such numbers. So the site 
> isn't the issue.
> 
> The tugs are an issue. Or are they? Simple solution. If GFA want to see their 
> sport & population grow, they'll put their money where their mouth is! Pay at 
> least 2/3's of the tug ferry costs for the competitors. Done. It'd be no 
> different to what it is now in SA where we have to pay large tug levies.
> 
> This idea/proposal. Run it every biannual year, with every other year running 
> as a team selection competition, let's call it the 'open' comp for now. This 
> 'Open' comp would be run exactly as the nationals is, except 'pair' flying 
> would be allowed.
> 
> Note! I didn't say team flying, team flying to me could result with multiple 
> gliders flying around in a 6 ship gaggle every day to improve their chances 
> of winning. So only pairs would be allowed, teams would be extremely frowned 
> upon.
> 
> Note! If & when a solo pilot wins the 'Open' comp - they'd still be eligible 
> to make the team. Though I'll leave the team selection guidelines to the ITC 
> in this proposal.
> 
> Would the people still turn up to this 'Open' comp if they're not interested 
> in team selection? I think so. As it's still an organised 2wk gliding event 
> to go flying with their mates. Maybe more would turn up than normal, as 
> they'd be able to fly alongside their 'pair' flying mate - & not get shot 
> down as they would now!
> 
> Alternatively. Run a nationals every year, however only every other year will 
> be used for selection - & this particular year, 'pair' flying would be 
> allowed. Easy.
> 
> Why leave 20m class out? We want this class to grow. It wouldn't grow as fast 
> as it could if it were included at the nats/open comp. Just run it at a State 
> champs every year, with only the team selection year as the one that counts.
> 
> 
> Advantages of having only one big 2wk competition a year...
> * It's only 2wks out of your precious 4wks a year annual leave.
> * Only one lot of organisation people get put out every year. Clubs & the 
> organisation less likely to get burnt out.
> * State comps, regattas & coaching events will grow: as people will have an 
> extra 2wks a year to spend how ever they choose.
> * If you're only afte

Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints

[rolf a. buelter]

You people are something. Somebody asks where the convention of  turnpopint 
numbers instead of descriptors come from. Fair enough question if it rains cats 
and dogs outside and all other inside activities are exhausted and deadly 
boredom set in.
Now you're suggesting that use of these numbers brings hell and damnation or at 
the very least makes you crash into the Atlantic or Mt Erebus or somewhere or 
at best loose your tail on take off. I'm surprised that nobody doug out the 
Gimly glider yet and suggests that if we have to use numbers they should at 
least be imperial.

Rolf
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 09:55:54 +1000
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Turnpoints



This is the frightening bit:


 "the aircraft computer applied vastly less thrust
"


Is there something wrong with having the computer work out the power
setting required and have the flight crew move the throttles to the
required setting?


Or having an acceleration monitor with a liftoff prediction once the
thing starts moving?


Or having flight crew familiar enough with the aircraft to know that the
thrust setting called for, at a weight you should have some feel for,
seems wrong?


Mike




.At 09:05 AM 10/01/2014, you wrote:

On 10/01/2014 8:47 AM,
opsw...@bigpond.net.au
wrote:



If people wish to continue with using just numbers they should
revisit the Air NZ accident in Antarctica. Individuals working alone, no
cross checking and inputting at dark O'clock.  Sooner or later you
will have a very uncomfortable experience. 
I've seen it time and time again even in professional aviation.
Yes
indeed. 

This one was very close to home, and perilously close to being
Australia's worst air disaster.    The essential message is in
the first couple of paragraphs.


tn

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- design & manufacture of quality soaring
instrumentation since 1978



www.borgeltinstruments.com

tel:   07 4635
5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635
5784

mob: 042835
5784
: 
int+61-42835 5784

P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 


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Re: [Aus-soaring] European transport

[rolf a. buelter]

It doesn't take longer at all, only for those selfish individuals thinking 
about their own time exclusively. In terms of man hours a single person rig is 
faster.
 
Rolf - who hasn't got a life either and roams the internet on Christmas day.
 
From: tshir...@internode.on.net
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 18:10:35 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] European transport

Merry Christmas to all.



I think these devices would be better described as "centre of gravity rigging 
systems" rather than "single person rigging systems".


I had one for quite a while and the advantage was not just that I could rig on 
my own (though I could given enough time, since it takes longer to do the 
multiple walk-arounds needed). It was that anyone could help, even small people 
or those with a bad back.   


And even for able bodied weight lifters, it was nice to be able to offer an 
easier way to do it.


Cheers
Tim

Tra dire e fare, c’è mezzo il mare


 



- Original Message -

From: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
@lists.internode.on.net>

To:"aus soaring" 
Cc:

Sent:Wed, 25 Dec 2013 12:38:09 +1100
Subject:Re: [Aus-soaring] European transport


yeah, don't help anybody to lug around weights well in excess of any OH&S 
rules. The bush lawyers out there will make you responsible for anything going 
wrong for your life time from that point onwards.
 
merry Christmas - Rolf
 

Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:10:15 +1000
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] European transport



Interesting. I'm surprised there is a market for single person rigging
tools in Australia with a second signature required.

I guess people just ignore the rules when it suits.


Mike




At 08:07 AM 25/12/2013, you wrote:
Yet another one from
IMI


http://www.imi-gliding.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=100027&lang=en



Merry Christmas


Cath


On 25/12/2013, at 7:31 AM, Bob Ward wrote:

Peter and other interested
parties. 

 

As Jim points out, there are many manufacturers of one person rigging
devices However, one of the best that I have found on the web is
manufactured by the Enstroj company in Slovakia. This same company
manufactures the brushless electric motors being used by Pipistrel 
and other glider manufacturers. They have a very good web site, with a
fifteen minute video of the device (SPRC)  being used 

to rig an electric Apis self launcher, which was the test bed for the
brushless electric motor. Also a good video of the Apis , which is now
available from Pipistrel. 

see www.enstroj.si .

The Pipistrel site is also worth a look. They have an interesting range
of sailplanes available, and sell at least some of them in kit form, for
those with talent, time and an interest in home building.

 

Regards, and merry Christmas to all

Bob Ward

 
From: Peter Champness

Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 9:58 PM
To: Discussion
of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] European transport

 

Hello Bob,

 

Sorry I don't have any info on a container from Europe.

 

However I am interested in any device that makes rigging gliders
easier.

 

Can you tell me a bit about your new device?

 

Peter Champness



On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Bob Ward
 wrote:
If anyone has a container or trailer coming into Australia from
Europe in the next few months, and could accommodate a 25 KG wooden box
with dimensions 820x660x230 mm I would like to hear from them. 

I am hoping to purchase a particularly good one person rigging device
manufactured in Slovenia. Freight on its own however makes it
prohibitively expensive.

 

Regards

Bob Ward


wendo...@westnet.com.au




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_

Re: [Aus-soaring] European transport

[rolf a. buelter]

yeah, don't help anybody to lug around weights well in excess of any OH&S 
rules. The bush lawyers out there will make you responsible for anything going 
wrong for your life time from that point onwards.
 
merry Christmas - Rolf
 
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 10:10:15 +1000
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] European transport



Interesting. I'm surprised there is a market for single person rigging
tools in Australia with a second signature required.

I guess people just ignore the rules when it suits.


Mike





At 08:07 AM 25/12/2013, you wrote:

Yet another one from
IMI



http://www.imi-gliding.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=100027&lang=en



Merry Christmas


Cath


On 25/12/2013, at 7:31 AM, Bob Ward wrote:


Peter and other interested
parties. 

 

As Jim points out, there are many manufacturers of one person rigging
devices However, one of the best that I have found on the web is
manufactured by the Enstroj company in Slovakia. This same company
manufactures the brushless electric motors being used by Pipistrel 
and other glider manufacturers. They have a very good web site, with a
fifteen minute video of the device (SPRC)  being used 

to rig an electric Apis self launcher, which was the test bed for the
brushless electric motor. Also a good video of the Apis , which is now
available from Pipistrel. 

see www.enstroj.si .

The Pipistrel site is also worth a look. They have an interesting range
of sailplanes available, and sell at least some of them in kit form, for
those with talent, time and an interest in home building.

 

Regards, and merry Christmas to all

Bob Ward

 

From: Peter Champness


Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 9:58 PM

To: Discussion
of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 

Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] European transport

 

Hello Bob,

 

Sorry I don't have any info on a container from Europe.

 

However I am interested in any device that makes rigging gliders
easier.

 

Can you tell me a bit about your new device?

 

Peter Champness




On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Bob Ward
 wrote:



If anyone has a container or trailer coming into Australia from
Europe in the next few months, and could accommodate a 25 KG wooden box
with dimensions 820x660x230 mm I would like to hear from them. 


I am hoping to purchase a particularly good one person rigging device
manufactured in Slovenia. Freight on its own however makes it
prohibitively expensive.


 


Regards


Bob Ward


wendo...@westnet.com.au





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Re: [Aus-soaring] Airline involvement

[rolf a. buelter]

Guess that's "Backstein" = Brick.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 22:14:15 +1100
From: plchampn...@gmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Airline involvement

By the way,  You have done a very nice job on VH-ZAF  "...kstein1" Peter 
Champness

On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Peter Champness  wrote:

Sorry Justin, I am bigger than you, so I would not go anywhere either. For much 
the same reason.
 Yours Peter Champoness  


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Justin Sinclair  
wrote:


How rude :) It's just the well stocked bar at KRY and the odd meal provided by 
the club members, 

Justin Sinclair 17 Queen st.Scarborough Qld 4020


Hm 07 3885 8949Mob 0421 061 811
Email jjsincl...@optusnet.com.au



Sent from my iPad
On 18 Nov 2013, at 5:45 pm, Peter Champness  wrote:



Well it doesn't look like Justin Sinclair is going anywhere during a winch 
launch.  There is no room for him in the luggage compartment.. Peter Champness




On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mike Borgelt 
 wrote:





I'd want to look at the structure and controls behind and under the seat
and recontour the seat pan if possible.


Mike


At 01:24 PM 16/11/2013, you wrote:

Phoebus's have a seatpan which
is conducive to sliding backwards - particularly on a winch launch. 
I used to hang on to the undercarriage lever so I didn't end up in the
luggage compartment on launch.


-Cath





On 14/11/2013, at 12:28 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:


At 06:40 AM 14/11/2013, you
wrote:

 I have shares in ZAF
"Phoebus C. Although I am about to give up on it having tried every
comfort trick in the book and have failed dismally.



What kind of parachute are you using?


Mike




Borgelt Instruments
- design & manufacture of quality soaring
instrumentation since 1978



www.borgeltinstruments.com

tel:   07 4635
5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635
5784

mob: 042835
5784
: 
int+61-42835 5784

P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 

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5784

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Re: [Aus-soaring] new Boeing flight deck instrument

[rolf a. buelter]

It's not April 1, is it?
 
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 09:50:32 +1000
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] new Boeing flight deck instrument





This arrived this morning:












BOEING PROPOSES NEW FLIGHT DECK EQUIPMENT 


EVERETT, WA (AP) Boeing Commercial Airplane Company Vice


President of Engineering, Bill Alum, today announced the


company's development of a new, high technology transport


jet flight deck warning system designed to help pilots avoid


the sort of incident that Asiana Airlines flight 214


experienced recently while attempting to land in San


Francisco. The new device utilizes measurements of air


pressure taken at different points on the aircraft's


airframe to calculate how fast the airplane is traveling


through the air. The actual technology involved in the


inputs and how they are processed is still considered


proprietary technological information by Boeing, as well as


by the U.S. Department of Defense.


Mr. Alum said that this device, if installed in all new


aircraft, as well as being retrofitted into the existing


commercial aircraft fleet, “has the potential to save


hundreds of lives each year”. It is engineered to provide


the pilots of these mammoth, high performance aircraft with


continuous, real-time updates of how fast the airplane is


moving. This will allow them to always make sure that the


aircraft's speed remains within a safe operating envelope.


“Information is power”, said Mr. Alum. The full name of the


device is yet to be determined, but the current working name


is “airspeed indicator”.


Reaction within the aviation industry has ranged from


skepticism to enthusiasm. Dr. Phillip Head, chairman of the


Department of Aeronautical Engineering at M.I.T. stated that


his department has been recommending something such as an


airspeed indicator for many years, but that their advocacy


for it has “fallen on deaf ears”.


In Toulouse, France, AirBus Chief Engineer Pierre Le Fou


said that, due to AirBus' advanced flight guidance systems,


such a device would be an unnecessary addition to their


flight decks. “The technical advancement of our flight decks


is such that pilots have no need for this type of


information. Our guidance systems are constantly aware of


all pertinent parameters while in flight, and will


automatically keep them within the normal range. The pilots


of our aircraft have no use for such a device as an airspeed


indicator”.


Skepticism not withstanding, Boeing seems to be determined


to proceed with the development of this new flight deck


technology. Mr. Alum stated that “we feel that, once pilots


reach the point that they understand the value of the


heretofore unavailable information that our proposed


airspeed indicator can give them, they will embrace this new


device and will learn to keep a close eye on it”.










Mike





Borgelt Instruments
- design & manufacture of quality soaring
instrumentation since 1978



www.borgeltinstruments.com

tel:   07 4635
5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635
5784

mob: 042835
5784
: 
int+61-42835 5784

P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Intermediate/short term goals

[rolf a. buelter]

"The idea is to fly in air that's going up." Wow - that's where I've gone wrong 
for the last 50 years. Thanks Mr. Borgelt for that invaluable piece of advise. 
rgds
 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 08:25:08 +1000
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Intermediate/short term goals






Mark,


The idea is to fly in air that's going up. You should not be hearing the
sink sound much. If you are it is time to go somewhere else and be in
cruise mode while doing this when you won't hear the sink sound.


Mike




At 12:37 AM 18/03/2013, you wrote:


On 17/03/2013, at 11:08 AM, Mike
Borgelt  wrote:

> Yes, staying out of sink is very important. Most of us do it poorly.
It is extremely important when trying to center  weak and broken
thermals which is why I like a vario with a sink sound as it provides
full information on the bad air as well as the good air while doing
this.


And on that note, I'd like to congratulate you for the B50, which, as
installed in AUGC's H205

Club Libelle, had the most inspiringly depressing sink sound I've ever
had the misfortune to

hear.


Excellent work, well done :-)


  - mark





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www.borgeltinstruments.com

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5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635
5784

mob: 042835
5784
: 
int+61-42835 5784

P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 


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Re: [Aus-soaring] OLC triangles

[rolf a. buelter]

Start and finish (closing point) must be within 1.5 km. Trap for young players 
- that is horizontal AND vertical, i.e. can't start at 2,500 m and finish at 
500 m above the same point. Rgds - Rolf
 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:13:07 -0800
From: bdur...@yahoo.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] OLC triangles

Hi Gary,

It comes down to the start and finish, outbound and inbound tracks; they have 
to cross within (I think) 0.5km to close the triangle and therefore 'award' FAI 
points.  I had the same problem until Eddie Madden pointed out the solution. 
Try using a standard start and finish line 1km long (0.5km radius) centred on 
the same point to ensure the tracks cross. This will also give the best average 
speed for the triangle. 

Best regards,
Brian DuRieu







From:

gstev...@bigpond.com ;



To:

Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
Australia. ;
 


Subject:

[Aus-soaring] OLC triangles 
   


Sent:

Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:34:34 AM   
 








Hi All,
 On several flights I  have done a 
flight that seems (by inspection), to includes a nice (FAI), triangle, and 
indeed shows up on the SeeYou site as a substantial - say 200 - 400 km 
- FAI triangle, and yet the OLC site manages to find a max FAI triangle of 
about 6 km or so for this very same flight! 
 
Am I missing something here?
 
Can anybody explain the mechanics of this to 
me? Is there a glitch on the OLC site?
 
Gary
 
 
 
 
 







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Re: [Aus-soaring] harmonised turnpoint list

[rolf a. buelter]

Could you guys at least find a less sexist and idiotic description for this 
silly discussion? Rgds - Rolf
 > From: gstev...@bigpond.com
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 22:58:02 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] harmonised turnpoint list
> 
> Hi Mike,
> I agree entirely.
> 
> Re "girly men" tasks, having read this comment, I instantly sent your email 
> to the recycle bin. However I have now reconsidered and I would like your 
> opinion, given that (amazingly), competition tasking is one topic that does 
> not seem to have been discussed on this forum.
> 
> Let me stir the pot by first saying that Charles Day, a long time member of 
> the GCV,  and an excellent pilot, was (is?) of the opinion that, in the 
> main, competition tasking is too conservative, and does not test the pilot 
> at the beginning of the day and at the end of the day. He therefore mostly 
> did not participate. However  I can recall one occasion when he did compete 
> in a Nationals - pre Benalla Worlds(??) - and (I think), in the end gained 
> an overall second place.
> 
> Over to you.
> 
> Gary
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Borgelt" 
> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
> 
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] harmonised turnpoint list
> 
> 
> > Does it matter? If you have one giant list you have to edit it anyway to 
> > get it down to the places you use at any given site.
> >
> > If doing a badge, record or contest flight as long as you go to the actual 
> > declared place (use the same list for the declaration and the nav 
> > database) and have at least one GPS fix in sector you are OK.
> >
> > It simply doesn't even matter if the turnpoint is displaced from the 
> > physical feature with GPS flight recording. We could save a lot of anxiety 
> > by simply using a half degree grid of lat and long over the soaring areas. 
> > Goes even more so for AAT where you don't even go to a specific place 
> > anyway. Don't get me started on the stupidity of the current rules for the 
> > "girly men" task though.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > At 12:03 PM 10/11/2012, you wrote:
> >>Just to get those going who aren't gliding this weekend what are we or the 
> >>GFA doing/have done about producing a harmonised turn point list for the 
> >>whole of Australia? Eg Tocumwal uses Burrumbuttock and so does Temora and 
> >>Benalla and Burrumbuttock turns out to be in three different places, 
> >>albeit not by much. The UK has had a national harmonised list for years, 
> >>why cant we??
> >>Ron
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> >
> > -
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> > 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 Integration with Flarm, 12V supply

[rolf a. buelter]

sorry, last post was meant for Mike D. only.
From: durr...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 08:42:29 +1000
To: drudd...@iinet.net.au; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 Integration with Flarm, 12V supply

Hi Folk,
We have this device in FQF and Mux the 302 and Flarm together for output to the 
PDA. Works well once you learn how to use it properly :-)

Probably overkill if you just want the power supply, Tasman has a nice device 
that takes the Tasman Vario, mixes the Flarm and also solves the power supply 
problem.
Best Regards,Mike
On 06/10/2012, at 8:30 AM, Druddock  wrote:


There is a device called a k6-mux that is programmable to do what you need


Sent from Samsung Mobile 
Paul Mander  wrote:




I’ve bought a Nexus 7 and installed XCSoar onto it,
and I’m delighted with the result although I’m yet to fly with it.

My next step is to integrate it into the ASH. Mounting it is
easy, getting a 5V power supply to it sounds easy, but what I’d like to
do is to create an interface that takes power from the glider’s 12V
system, and the data output from the Flarm, and turns them into an input 
acceptable
to the Nexus.

Any advice? Thanks, Paul Mander






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Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 Integration with Flarm, 12V supply

[rolf a. buelter]

Hi Mike, I just enquired this morning with the K6 team if their bluetooth unit 
can connect through the Mux to preserve the connectivity with your PDA. Power I 
get throught he Flarm Nav.
Fiddled some with the sensor / bolt head distance. Had to leave the one which 
worked at about 0.9 mm, as I had no suitable washer to decrease the distance by 
a suitable amount. proper distance is 0.5 mm + / - 0.2 mm. The other one which 
had in excess of 1 mm and didn't work is now reduced to about 0.6 mm. Both work 
on the ground for the auto retract when the prop hits the stop. Depending on 
weather will fly and try tomorrow. Rgds - Rolf From: durr...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 08:42:29 +1000
To: drudd...@iinet.net.au; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Nexus 7 Integration with Flarm, 12V supply

Hi Folk,
We have this device in FQF and Mux the 302 and Flarm together for output to the 
PDA. Works well once you learn how to use it properly :-)

Probably overkill if you just want the power supply, Tasman has a nice device 
that takes the Tasman Vario, mixes the Flarm and also solves the power supply 
problem.
Best Regards,Mike
On 06/10/2012, at 8:30 AM, Druddock  wrote:


There is a device called a k6-mux that is programmable to do what you need


Sent from Samsung Mobile 
Paul Mander  wrote:




I’ve bought a Nexus 7 and installed XCSoar onto it,
and I’m delighted with the result although I’m yet to fly with it.

My next step is to integrate it into the ASH. Mounting it is
easy, getting a 5V power supply to it sounds easy, but what I’d like to
do is to create an interface that takes power from the glider’s 12V
system, and the data output from the Flarm, and turns them into an input 
acceptable
to the Nexus.

Any advice? Thanks, Paul Mander






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[Aus-soaring] Pee Tube

[rolf a. buelter]

CASA clearly still has a major challenge to catch up with EASA rule makers. 
Found blow on uras.gliderpilot.net posted by 'Big Wings'. I was concerned that 
EASA was losing its way and creating regulations 
where
none are required because common sense would prevail. I now realise 
that I
had underestimated the rule makers. Their latest proposals for 
regulation
of aircraft used for non-commercial operations (NCO), in a 
document
entitled: "Certification Specifications and Guidance Material 
related to
Generic Master Minimum Equipment List for other-than-complex 
motor-powered
aeroplanes", which addresses permitted defects in many light 
aircraft when
used for recreational purposes, include this stroke of genius: 


"38-30-2 Pilot relief tube: May be missing or inoperative provided it 
is
not used." 

However, glider pilots will be reassured to know that 
sailplanes will be
exempt from this rule. We will be free to wet ourselves if 
our pee tubes
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC

[rolf a. buelter]

I'm following the OLC / Skylines discussion on segelflug.de. Max K., the main 
force behind the Skyline development is of the opinion that the OLC 
organisation is to dictatorial and possesive when it comes to the use of data 
they collect, i.e. IGC files. On top of that there are a few rules in the OLC 
scoring which don't meet the approval of all, e.g. motorgliders get no penalty 
applied eventhough they have a perceived advantage. The developers are also 
unhappy that the german decentralised comp is derived from the OLC, similar to 
ours and the DAeC pays for that admin too. The whole thing is motivated by a 
mix of personality, the genuine drive to do better and some local (german) 
issues.I'm with Pam and Stuart. Rgds - Rolf
 > From: s...@bigpond.net.au
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 22:07:57 +1000
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC
> 
> I'm with Pam; WHY?
> 
> The wonderful thing about the OLC is that it brings most of us together -
> this is why we find it so interesting? 
> 
> I'm not saying that the guys and gals developing the new site do not have
> some innovative ideas - I hope they do
> but by diluting the numbers participating erodes what we love about the OLC
> - is that what we really want - I doubt it.
> Can we see some collaboration?  
> 
> SDF  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Pam
> Kurstjens
> Sent: Friday, 13 July 2012 3:55 PM
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC
> 
> Why would we need an alternative? I think there is great strength and
> interest having worldwide flights in one place.
> If you would like to see an alternative system, check out the BGA Ladder in
> the UK: http://www.bgaladder.co.uk and click on 'daily scores' for example.
> Yesterday, 39 flights in the UK were posted to this site, and only 5 of
> those were posted to OLC.
> People are regularly doing 750's and the rare 1000, which are incredible
> flights given the size of the island, the airspace, and the weather, yet we
> see few flights on the OLC so gliding in the UK goes largely unnoticed by
> the worldwide gliding community.
> 
> Pam
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter F
> Bradshaw
> Sent: Monday, 2 July 2012 9:51 PM
> To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Alternative to the OLC
> 
> Hi;
> 
> There is an alternative to the OLC at:
> 
> http://skylines.xcsoar.org/
> 
> IGC files may be uploaded and scored here. In addition it is planned to
> implement a realtime tracking feature in conjunction with XCSoar (v6.4).
> 
> Cheers
> 
> --
> Peter F Bradshaw: http://www.exadios.com (public keys avaliable there).
> Personal site: http://personal.exadios.com "I love truth, and the way the
> government still uses it occasionally to  keep us guessing." - Sam Kekovich.
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[Aus-soaring] gliding training

[rolf a. buelter]

That looks like an efficient, low cost, fun way to interest kids in gliding: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=GjdQhNHsJps&NR=1
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Re: [Aus-soaring] What instruments to put into a new panel?

[rolf a. buelter]

Forgot Iglide butterfly for the fruit lovers. Rgds - Rolf
 From: rbuel...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:29:56 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] What instruments to put into a new panel?





Not so much own experience but reading various forums (forae??):
 
There is a new Oudie came out earlier this month, reportedly significantly 
better sunlight readable. Old Oudies can be updated at a price.
 
If you want to go Android / smartphone, the Dell Streak 5 is reportedly the 
best in the market. It's not produced anymore but available on e-bay in the $ 
300.- range.
 
If you want to stay with ancient technology the old Ipaq's seem to be the 
favourites, the older the design the better with the b/w units best.
 
There is new technology (e-print?) just around the corner for the last couple 
of years but nothing useable offered yet.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:01:39 +1000
From: ha...@interweft.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] What instruments to put into a new panel?



  


  
  
Hi



I would like some feedback from users of the various moving map
display computer systems that are available for gliders.



I have used both the Altair/XCSoar (with Vega vario) and Mobile
SeeYou (on a PDA and now on an Oudie - which I have to say I don't
like as it's too dim for Australian conditions in my view).



However, there are other systems out there (and I suspect there are
some I have not heard of). I'd appreciate some user feedback and web
links so I can go and do some research.



Tks

-- 
Robert Hart  ha...@interweft.com.au
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

  


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Re: [Aus-soaring] What instruments to put into a new panel?

[rolf a. buelter]

Not so much own experience but reading various forums (forae??): There is a new 
Oudie came out earlier this month, reportedly significantly better sunlight 
readable. Old Oudies can be updated at a price. If you want to go Android / 
smartphone, the Dell Streak 5 is reportedly the best in the market. It's not 
produced anymore but available on e-bay in the $ 300.- range. If you want to 
stay with ancient technology the old Ipaq's seem to be the favourites, the 
older the design the better with the b/w units best. There is new technology 
(e-print?) just around the corner for the last couple of years but nothing 
useable offered yet. Rgds - Rolf
 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:01:39 +1000
From: ha...@interweft.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] What instruments to put into a new panel?



  


  
  
Hi



I would like some feedback from users of the various moving map
display computer systems that are available for gliders.



I have used both the Altair/XCSoar (with Vega vario) and Mobile
SeeYou (on a PDA and now on an Oudie - which I have to say I don't
like as it's too dim for Australian conditions in my view).



However, there are other systems out there (and I suspect there are
some I have not heard of). I'd appreciate some user feedback and web
links so I can go and do some research.



Tks

-- 
Robert Hart  ha...@interweft.com.au
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

  


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Re: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ...

[rolf a. buelter]

Forgive my spelling, it was obviously a heart attack, and yes, it proved pigs 
can fly, albeit briefly only. Rolf
 > Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:55:18 +1030
> From: new...@atdot.dotat.org
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ...
> 
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 01:20:19PM +1100, rolf a. buelter wrote:
> 
>  > A glider pilot and balloonist friend of mine  back in Germany drove
>  > his hot air ballon not too high across a farm with their prized
>  > stud pig in the yard. When he lit the burner, the pig did a flick
>  > roll and died of a hard attack. It cost my friend dearly. Rgds - Rolf
> 
> It must have been very convenient to have a burner handy for the
> resulting barbecue.
> 
>   - mark
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Re: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ...

[rolf a. buelter]

A glider pilot and balloonist friend of mine  back in Germany drove his hot air 
ballon not too high across a farm with their prized stud pig in the yard. When 
he lit the burner, the pig did a flick roll and died of a hard attack. It cost 
my friend dearly. Rgds - Rolf
 From: jar...@optusnet.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:36:58 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ...

Most dogs, including mine, are absolutely terrified by hot air balloons. has 
that ever been raised as an argument to stop them flying over the Melbourne 
suburbia?
 
Regards
Jarek
 
 
 
> tom claffey  wrote:
> 
> Free range pigs and ostriches are a problem as well.
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: Terry Neumann 
> To: "Aus >> "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."" 
>  
> Sent: Sunday, 25 March 2012 7:35 PM
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ...
>  
> 
> I'm not sure what Terry's neighbour was growing...  or perhaps he is the 
> president of the local nudist club...
> OK, I had better explain the circumstances of the question regarding the 
> right to fly over someone's property ...
> 
> Firstly, he wasn't a neighbour, but a friend who lived about 20 km
> away.It transpires that he had been called over by a hobby
> farmer friend a few kilometres away to assist him/her to restrain
> and treat a horse which had injured itself against a fence after
> apparently being spooked by a glider flying overhead, allegedly 
> quite low.  Both horse and owner were seriously upset.   Hence the
> question as to what right they (the pilot and his glider) had to be
> there.I thought back to the day in question; it was during our
> then annual regatta and one of the tasks would have been over that
> area.  It seemed that a pilot had apparently thermalled away from a
> low point and more potential trouble than he could ever have known
> about at the time.   So, yes, the question may be a no-brainer from
> our point of view, but if an investigative reporter from one of the
> current affair slush shows got hold of a situation like this, it's
> not hard to see how we could be painted.   A letter of complaint in
> the local paper would have been equally damaging to our how the
> public sees us, because they won't necessarily see things in the way
> that we do. 
> 
> My friend's perceptions of gliders in paddocks had been
> pre-conditioned somewhat by an somewhat earlier outlanding in one of
> his paddocks in a standing crop where the retrieve crew drove in and
> got the aircraft - he didn't find out about it until a few days
> later when he discovered the damage and started asking questions.  
> Yes, someone had seen a glider in there a few days earlier.  So
> quite naturally, he complained to the first glider pilot he knows.  
> And you've probably worked out who that is    
> 
> So thanks Bernie for digging out Paul Matthew's legal opinion.   It
> does clarify the situation up to a point.   However if it ever got
> to the point of calling in the police, you can imagine what happens
> in any subsequent outlanding in that area.I can only assert at
> this point that it's essential for us to be absolutely scrupulous in
> how we conduct ourselves after landing out, and during the
> subsequent retrieval.   None of these possible complications should
> in anyway defer a decision to give it away and make a safe circuit
> and landing in a suitable paddock when it becomes necessary.   But
> please be aware of how the owners might be feeling about your
> presence, and be prepared to go the distance in accommodating
> whatever you encounter in their reactions.Times have changed in
> the country and people are much more aware of and more sensitive
> about legal matters than they once used to be.   That's why I see a
> few paddock gates with locks on them these days.  
> 
> Charm and diplomacy are valuable things to pack in your outlanding
> kit.   Most people are totally reasonable, some are even honoured
> that you've chosen  their paddock.   But our sport is on display and
> it's important to paint it in the best possible context, because the
> next pilot's reception will be preconditioned by how you managed
> your visit.   
> 
> And Rob, you'll be relived to know that the farmer concerned, like
> myself, has retired from the land.   He's gone to live in the
> suburbs just a few kilometres downwind from the threshold of the 23
> runway at Gawler.  
> 
> Regards,
> TN
> 
> 
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Regards
Jarek

Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes

[rolf a. buelter]

That would result in having facts!! Totally unacceptable to any forum!! They 
would all (including this one) disappear without baseless assumptions, rumours 
and innuendo. Rolf
 From: wommamuku...@bigpond.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:50:26 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes












"It will be interesting to get the official 
report."
 
There is a live uninjured pilot, so why not just ask as it has raised 
such curiosity in the antipodes. :-)
 

soar...@kent-gliding-club.co.uk



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  gstev...@bigpond.com 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:36 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider 
  pilot parachutes
  

  Hi Anthony,
  Plausible that he was over unlandable terrain 
  without landing options . However your postulate raises the question 
  as to how/why this could come about. Your last supposition is somewhat 
  debatable, given that the image shows the glider in mature growth trees. in 
  this situation my understanding of the general advice is to "land" the glider 
  on the top of the tree canopy as slowly as possible under the prevailing 
  circumstances.Perhaps someone who has actually done it, might like to make 
  comment?
  Mike's suppositions are just as plausible.
  It will be interesting to get the official 
  report.
  Cheers,
  Gary
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Anthony Smith 
To: 'Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:37 
PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider 
pilot parachutes



Presumably 
he was over unlandable terrain and out of options.  With a real risk of 
injury if he stayed in the cockpit, it was probably best to bail 
out.
 
 


From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of MIKE 
BORGELT
Sent: Monday, 20 February 2012 8:21 AM
To: 
Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: 
Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot 
parachutes
 
Makes you wonder why he bailed out.
Control system 
problem?
Spin recovery?

Mike

At 09:46 PM 19/02/2012, you 
wrote:


Airframe looks almost 
undamaged and intact.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-17088948
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[Aus-soaring] Weekend Jan 28 -29

[rolf a. buelter]

What a fantastic weekend. We sure showed Australia and the world that Bacchus 
Marsh is a teriffic cross country site. Not  easy but worth the struggle. With 
JB's words "another normal day at Bacchus" Rgds - Rolf  
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[Aus-soaring] FW: Horsham Week 2012 entries

[rolf a. buelter]

Hear, Hear!! Rgds - Rolf
 From: maxh...@internode.on.net
Subject: Re: Horsham Week 2012 entries
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:31:34 +1100
To: p...@mander.net.au


Hi PaulPerhaps you should ask the organisers of the multi class nationals that 
question!
In the mid to late 1960's I was doing a lot of flying in the Boomerang in which 
I got my 3 diamonds by Nov 1968, [ No 6  but  number 4  actually earn't in 
Australia and only the second 3 diamond badge fully earn't in Australia as the 
heights for two of those other 3 badges were done overseas.] one of the  few 3 
diamonds badges  earn't in an all wood aircraft.
The best period for flying in those years seemed to be around the end of 
January and into early February. Also by then the grain farmers had finished 
harvest and there were the big paddocks open for landing if one got caught out.
We held our first competition in Easter 1966 but it was obvious that Easter was 
far too late to do any real flying.I had read an article in the American 
"Soaring" around that time by an american who had flown at an 8 day long  
competition at Angers in France. The article was called "Eight days at Angers". 
 I realised about then that if we held a competition starting on a Saturday and 
going through until the following Saturday it would be a nice week of flying 
for most pilots and would give them time to get home on Sunday and back to work 
for the next week. So when the club [ Wimmera Soaring Club ] came to make a 
decision on what and when and if we held another competition following the not 
very successful 1966 Easter competition  I suggested that we hold this 8 day 
competition beginning around the second full week in February.
There were other factors involved in this timing as well as Waikerie, Benalla 
and a host of then new clubs were all busy organising competitions all over the 
place for the then very rapidly expanding gliding movement so we had to fit in.
The first 8 day, week long competition was held at Dooen out of the paddock 
across the highway and immediately east of the 660 foot high Dooen Wireless 
mast from the 18th to the 26th  February 1967,. As I remember it there were 8 
competitors and I think [ but am not sure ] we flew I think for all of the 8 
days.
On 14 th October 1967 we moved onto Horsham's just completed new aerodrome and 
shifted our Hangar from Dooen to the new airstrip.The first HW competition of 
the airstrip was held there in February 1968.It was quite an act to move and 
get organised for a week long competition at that, all in 3 months. 
As is the way with the dates the time of the start of the HW competition 
drifted forward in February and not sure what year but we had to shift it back 
again to the beginning of the second week in February. By the mid 1970's the 
date had moved forward again until it coincided with the start of the first 
full week in February and that was then  decided to leave the 8 day Horsham 
Week comp starting on the Saturday of the first full week in February. 
HW has remained on that date without a break since at least the mid 1970's and 
has been held since 1967 starting in that first couple of weeks of February.
At two competitions at least we were launching 72 gliders with 5 or 6 tugs 
operating and we had something like 60 gliders competing for maybe 10 or more 
years 
So the Multi Class Nationals organisers were, to say the least, some what rude 
and dismissive and lacking a sense of respect for others in the gliding 
community  and I could say a lot more, in organising the MCN's to knowingly  
conflict with what is arguably the world's longest running, unbroken, week long 
annual gliding competition which has been held now for some 45 years, 44 of 
those years  from the same site and which still attracts between 30 and 35  
gliders and competitors despite the gliding movement in Australia now being at 
less than half the numbers of the peak in the 1970's.
So Paul, that is my story.Thanks for your interest and my kindest regards to 
you personally.
Cheers for now.
Max Hedt  

On 11/11/2011, at 7:44 AM, Paul Mander wrote:I suppose there’s some 
reason that the dates clash with the Multi Class Nationals. Whatever. 
 Would have liked to have attended. All the best for another great episode in 
the long running tradition. Paul Mander From: David Cleland 
[mailto:davidlclel...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2011 8:41 AM
 Cc: nva06...@bigpond.net.au; smal...@bigpond.net.au; acmur...@optusnet.com.au; 
Adam; aland...@westnet.com.au; Alex Kreti; gliderkei...@bigpond.com; 'Arnold 
Niewand'; 'Ben Loxton'; 'Brian Harper'; 'Brian Trotter'; 'Brian Wood'; 
btun...@internode.on.net; glid...@highspeedflight.com.au; Buskens Peter; Buzz 
Bailey; Colin Campbell; cr...@alpineshire.vic.gov.au; 
craig.vin...@madderns.com.au; ctho...@bigpond.com; cub...@netconnect.com.au; 
d.n...@mkysugar.com.au; dannykilgar...@internode.on.net; dwj...@ozemail.com.au; 
dme...@au1.ibm.com; 'David Nugent'; 'Dermot Cole

Re: [Aus-soaring] Thin Nyloc Nuts

[rolf a. buelter]

not many of them in gliding, most are full ones. Rgds - Rolf
 > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:14:07 +1100
> From: slutsw...@gmail.com
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Thin Nyloc Nuts
> 
> BTW, the thing you are looking for is commonly called a "half nut"
> rather than a "thin" nut.  It might help with searching on google etc.
> 
> D
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Media !

[rolf a. buelter]

I too have seen much worse interpretations, overall a good article. Congrats 
Tom and enjoy Poland. Rgds - Rolf
 From: sco...@dd.com.au
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:06:33 +1100
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Media !



In just 10 seconds Mr Howard can reach 26,000 feet from ground level, lifted up 
on pockets of air called thermals.

Woow highest I ever got on a thermal was about 14,000 and it took just a 
little longer than 10 second :-)
(assuming you read aus-soaring) - Good article Tom, nice work and good luck in 
Poland.
Scooter
On 10/10/2011, at 10:58 AM, Christopher McDonnell 
wrote:http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/news/local/news/general/highflying-bendigo-teen-bound-for-poland/2317731.aspx___
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Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fees, Funding, and the Demise of Gliding

[rolf a. buelter]

Hi Tim, Your post undoubtedly contains some uncomfortable truths. Under your 
proposed business model however there would have been no way for me to get into 
gliding and I wonder about others, including yourself. Rgds - Rolf
 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 09:13:00 +1000
From: tshir...@internode.on.net
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fees, Funding, and the Demise of Gliding


  



  
  
Hi all,



At GCV in Benalla we have three levels of AEF ranging in price from
$135 to $235.



The vast majority of those who take them up buy the most expensive
version, and most make a 400km round trip from Melbourne for the
experience.



It's not the price, it's the service.  You can book online, and
through "gift" websites, receive vouchers that can be redeemed at a
convenient time, and we are very flexible about weather,
cancellations and re-booking.  Personally, if I feel the passenger
has not had full value I will offer to take them for a second flight
at my own expense.  Quality and service is remembered long after
price is forgotten.



GCV gets few new members this way, but plenty of revenue, so we may
as well charge what the market will pay.  Recruits come from those
with a more sporting interest, or who are already interested in
gliding rather than other types of aviation.  Judging by our last
season's crop, most of them are hanging out for the cross-country
course in November and wondering how to get into the LS4 before
then.



The current problems with gliding are caused by sticking to a
business model and organisational structure that was effective in
the period up to about 1980.  No other business which believed that
would be around for long - why do we?



Gliding does not appear to be "demising" at the top end of the
sport.  Read the magazine if you don't believe that - almost every
page is filled with articles about competitions and high-tech (and
yes, high cost) equipment.  The featured club at Lake Keepit makes
its money from people who drive 400km from Sydney, or who attend
competitions and other events there.  Every year well-heeled gliding
"tourists" arrive at Narromine, Corowa, Benalla and other places
with containers full of top end gliders.  It's not all doom and
gloom.



You can learn to fly in a Tecnam (or a Blanik), but have you ever
heard of a World Championships for them?  And in which other branch
of aviation can you fly a ASG29 or JS1, or anything even vaguely
approaching them?



We need to sell our strengths (preferably to doctors and lawyers),
and stop lamenting a lost era.  Perhaps in the future we'll have
less members and less small clubs, but a healthier sport.  We need
to face facts and finally admit that we are no longer a cut price
flying training outfit.


  
Cheers

Tim
tra
  dire e
  fare c'è mezzo il mare
  



On 8/09/2011 12:33, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote:

  
  
  
  Hi Macca, JR, & All,
  A couple of very nice postings,
  that gives some perspective, on this vexing subject.
   
  Yeah the AEF fee to GFA is large,
  but I have never heard of any AEF person bucking about this. I
  very much suspect that much of this is because they really
  don't understand just what is going on here (despite a
  briefing by an experienced  club member, and "signing their
  life away")!  Possibly they are focused on the goal, which is
  of course as it should be - to go flying. 
   
  
However if you bother to read
the communications from the GFA, you will find that this fee
has been set on the basis that "somebody" has to pay for the
administration of our sport. In a nutshell under the current
thinking, if the AEF people don't contribute, then it is YOU
who must pay more. It is all about balancing the books.
 
  
  In the very short term, Macca's
  response now leads me to suggest the following: Keep the AEF
  fee the same, but increase the 3 day membership to 3 months. {
  I suspect that the current number of 3 month memberships is
  VERY low.} I haven't done any research here, but I bet that my
  proposal will not make the slightest bit of difference to
  revenue collected, and JUST MAYBE it might get the movement an
  additional member or ten  which will of course actually
  increase revenue a bit - but revenue raising is not - just to
  make it crystal clear - the prime goal of the exercise.
   
  However let me say once again,

  for about the hundredth time, that the basic problem is
  political, 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?

[rolf a. buelter]

A good team beats a good pilot most of the time. A good pilot beats a bad team 
anytime. If you want numbers, have a look at the recent german flapped 
nationals, in particular the scores of Sommer / Bode for each day. Once you 
have done that, look at their start and finishing times for each day. Once 
recovered from that, look at their traces. There is not one pilot in Australia, 
let alone a team, capable of that level of skill, trust, determination, 
training, support, willingness, knowledge, compatibility, . . No PHD needed 
to know that. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a rocket scientist. 
We are way better off to hone individual skills here in Oz and hope for another 
Ingo if we want a podium pilot. But mind you, even Ingo had his wins before the 
French showed the gliding world what a perfect team can achieve. There are 52 
weeks in every year to practice that sort of thing. If you show me a pair which 
does that for 50 weeks, I will be happy to let them continue their practice 
during 2 weeks of the nationals, but not one of them to be a national champion. 
if I wanted to participate in a team sport I would have taken up soccer or such 
thing, not the intensely individual sport of gliding. Already I'm regretting to 
have written this post as all of that has ben said before and probably better 
and more eloquent. Rolf
 From: gstev...@bigpond.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; to...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 13:51:37 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?










Hi Rolf,
I see that you entirely missed the point of this post. The 
heading should have given you your first clue.
To my knowledge, there has not been ANY discussion on 
trying to put some numbers on the value of team flying.
 
So .. do YOU think that good team flying (on 
average), gives the team an advantage over an individual pilot? If so, 
by how much? Is it even possible to specify a number range?
 
Obviously  there are lots of variables, and as Tom 
has already implied, just one of these is the relative skill level 
of every pilot in a particular contest, be they team flyers or 
not. Under what conditions is team flying most advantageous? When is it least 
advantageous? Do you think that the location of a site will give some 
individual 
pilots an advantage, or on the other hand can site location advantage 
a team, more so than an individual? 
 
WPP has already made the interesting point that the 
British Juniors are changing the way they intend to tackle the 
current world contest, but of course this has nothing to do with trying to 
come up with a set (or sets?), of numbers.
 
Gary
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  rolf a. 
  buelter 
  To: aus soaring ; to...@yahoo.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 11:09 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - 
  what is it worth?
  

  We've had this discussion for years ad nauseam. As no new facts 
  emerged there is no use at all to have the discussion again. The 
  current rehash serves only those who want to re-read their own 
  arguments of the past. I'm quite sure there is a history funtion 
  somewhere which can be used for that purpose without annoying all 
  others.
 
Rolf
 

  
  
  From: gstev...@bigpond.com
To: to...@yahoo.com; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: 
  Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:22:02 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - 
  what is it worth?


  
  Hi Tom,
  Good to hear from you. Re your earlier post on 
  Mac and the Diana 2, my understanding of this situation is that landing 
  problems are about par for the course! Take-offs too in this ship are 
  also supposed to be quite interesting, probably for exactly the same reasons 
  you alluded to. I am somewhat surprised that the production factory is 
  still going - if indeed it still is! Apart from anything else the owner 
  BB seems to have (or had? - does the leopard change its spots?), an 
  attitude problem. I have had some slight dealings with him in the recent 
  past. My experience was not that his attitude was the problem, but the 
  fact that the man  would mostly not answer any  straight 
  question, posed to him.
  Re your response to my latest post - it is an 
  interesting aside. Do you really expect these two day winners to be on the 
  podium at the end of the contest? What is your real belief re team 
  flying? If you think team flying improves the chance of a team 
  member winning, don't be a wooze - answer my  question. Say hi 
  to Kerrie for me. Have fun.
  Cheers,
  Gary
   
  
- 
Original Message - 
From: 
tom claffey 

To: 
Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: 
Monday, August 08, 2011 12:06 AM
Subject: 
Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?



The two winners at Uvalde yesterday did not team fly! 
:]





From: "gstev...@bigpond.com" 
T

Re: [Aus-soaring] Tasking

[rolf a. buelter]

Tim, Not advocating exclucive speed tasking, just bemoaning their almost 
complete disappearance from nationals. I for myself don't have to be careful at 
all regarding what I wish for, I look after myself unless the iron one fails. I 
hasten to add that I don't expect everybody else to go to such length and 
tasking should suit most pilots most of the time. But not exclusively. Even 
without crew, comps are the easiest venues to get a retrieve. With a few rare 
exceptions all participants have a couple of friends present who will retrieve. 
Our tasking however has evolved to serve the aim to get everybody home every 
day and that is not doing us any favours when we venture past our own little 
patch. Rgds - Rolf
 Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:50:28 +1000
From: tshir...@internode.on.net
To: rbuel...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Tasking


  



  
  
Rolf,



There was a noticeable improvement in participation after AAT tasks
were introduced, because it allows lower performance pilots as well
as lower performance gliders to compete more comfortably.  If we
return to fixed tasks, you can expect lower participation.  If you
structure rules so that more people land out, and everyone has to
bring a crew, the same.  Be careful what you wish for.  



But that said, I do expect that all classes will fly some fixed
tasks at Benalla next January.  You may even get a RUN task.  We
need to cater for all our customers :)


  
  
  
  
  
  Untitled Document
  
  
  
  
  
  
Cheers

Tim
tra
  dire e
  fare c'è mezzo il mare
  



On 8/08/2011 11:20, rolf a. buelter wrote:

  
  
That is a whole new discussion which we haven't had yet. Am in
full agreement with WPP. 3 or 4 years back we split into club
and sports class, one of the reasons cited was the impossibility
to task fairly over such a wide handicap range. Since then we
not only dropped fixed tasks completely from the club and
sportsclass nationals but they almost disappeared form
multiclass as well. With WPP's words - pathetic.

 

Rolf

 


  From: aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com

  To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net

  Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:01:07 +1000

  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?

  

  
  Untitled Document
  

  My first ever, competition fixed task was in the UK
just prior to starting the world championships – how
pathetic!  Bring back the days when pilots brought along
their own crews and had at least 75% fixed tasks in
Aussie comps :)
   
  WPP

  

  
  

  
  

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[Aus-soaring] Tasking (was Team flying - what is it worth?)

[rolf a. buelter]

That is a whole new discussion which we haven't had yet. Am in full agreement 
with WPP. 3 or 4 years back we split into club and sports class, one of the 
reasons cited was the impossibility to task fairly over such a wide handicap 
range. Since then we not only dropped fixed tasks completely from the club and 
sportsclass nationals but they almost disappeared form multiclass as well. With 
WPP's words - pathetic. Rolf
 From: aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:01:07 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?



Untitled Document



My first ever, competition fixed task was in the UK just prior to starting 
the world championships – how pathetic!  Bring back the days when pilots 
brought along their own crews and had at least 75% fixed tasks in Aussie comps 
:)
 
WPP
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?

[rolf a. buelter]

We've had this discussion for years ad nauseam. As no new facts emerged there 
is no use at all to have the discussion again. The current rehash serves only 
those who want to re-read their own arguments of the past. I'm quite sure there 
is a history funtion somewhere which can be used for that purpose without 
annoying all others. Rolf
 From: gstev...@bigpond.com
To: to...@yahoo.com; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:22:02 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?








Hi Tom,
Good to hear from you. Re your earlier post on Mac 
and the Diana 2, my understanding of this situation is that landing problems 
are about par for the course! Take-offs too in this ship are also supposed 
to be quite interesting, probably for exactly the same reasons you alluded 
to. I am somewhat surprised that the production factory is still going - if 
indeed it still is! Apart from anything else the owner BB seems to 
have (or had? - does the leopard change its spots?), an attitude 
problem. I have had some slight dealings with him in the recent past. My 
experience was not that his attitude was the problem, but the fact that the 
man  would mostly not answer any  straight question, posed 
to him.
Re your response to my latest post - it is an 
interesting aside. Do you really expect these two day winners to be on the 
podium at the end of the contest? What is your real belief re team flying? 
If you think team flying improves the chance of a team member 
winning, don't be a wooze - answer my  question. Say hi to Kerrie 
for me. Have fun.
Cheers,
Gary
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  tom claffey 
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 12:06 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - 
  what is it worth?
  

  
  The two winners at Uvalde yesterday did not team fly! 
  :]
  

  
  
  
  From: "gstev...@bigpond.com" 
To: Discussion of issues relating to 
  Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2011 11:59 
  PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] 
  Team flying - what is it worth?


  
  

  Hallo All,
  Preamble
  For years, there has been robust debate in this 
  country, on the subject of team flying in Australian Competitions. Some 
pilots 
  are strongly for it, some strongly against it, and some are ambivalent. Some 
  pilots have been known to change their viewpoint, when their own 
circumstances 
  change!
  It is generally acknowledged, that in any modern 
  competition, where the practice of team flying is allowed, (such as a World 
  Championship), GOOD team flying is essential if any team wants to 
  get at least one of their members onto the podium. I have used the 
  word "GOOD" quite advisably, because, like everything else in gliding, it 
  takes considerable time and practice to perfect the necessary 
  skills.
  
   
  That is of course the rub. How can 
  this practice be carried out? This is not the question here, but 
  Allan Barnes, a member of the DDSC has seriously considered this 
  particular question and offered some suggestions.  In passing, 
  I suggest here,  that if the team changes, then it is probably necessary 
  to return to the basics, at least in the short term, to develop 
  the essential trust and rapport that is required in this exercise. I 
  would expect that two pilots who are experienced team flyers (but not with 
  each other), can far more quickly become a new team, than a team made up 
  of any other combination such as: Two pilots who have never 
  team flown at all; a team of one experienced team flyer, and one pilot 
  who has never team flown before.  A further interesting 
  question is "what is the ideal team size"? My own suspicion is 
  that to a limited extent, more is better. In the world of professional bike 
  racing, the team size is 9 riders. In gliding at World level, I 
  think 3 pilots per class is the official limit, so I suspect that the 
  possibilities of a team larger than 3 has never been explored! Can 
  perhaps some research dollars be obtained (to the greater good of Oz 
  gliding, and indeed World gliding), to explore this subject? I am certain 
that 
  there is the odd PhD or two that could be obtained here, and the pilots 
  in the studies would of course have to undergo maybe hundreds of hours of 
team 
  flying in the interest of this research! What a bugger!

  **
  The Question
  For the sake of this post, assume that we 
  have a team of  two pilots who are competent in team 
  flying. They are pitted against many individual pilots. As outlined 
  above, we know that there is an advantage in team flying. 
  So the question is "what do YOU think is the 
  percentage advantage of

Re: [Aus-soaring] Motor Glider Noise

[rolf a. buelter]

What an excellent argument to make more noise, a certain winner with the 
general population. Rolf


I'll bet angoodly proportion of the those residents have dogs which bark
and annoy their neighbours at all hours.


Mike




Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
since 1978

phone Int'l + 61 746 355784

fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796

cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784

  

email:   mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com

website:

www.borgeltinstruments.com


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Re: [Aus-soaring] rigging controls checks (Foka etc)

[rolf a. buelter]

Wombat wrote:

 > We are unlikely to change this by talking about 
> it - so can we please talk about something else now?
> 
> Wombat

Hey Wombat, just because you write a reasoned post doesn't mean that the rest 
of us can't continue to spout more nonsense.
 
Now, what else can I start here - we had jets, electric drives, rigging checks. 
Haven't bashed instructors for a while, they sign for all sorts of things and 
even let beginners go it alone, Surely can't be qualified for that! I know, 
I've experienced one make a mistake!
 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident

[rolf a. buelter]

Yea, way more important to cover your ass against litigation then document a 
second chance to get it right!
 
Allays your miserable Mr. Buelter
 
> Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:54:25 +1000
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Foka incident
> 
> 
> Lots of lessons in the Foka crash.
> 
> One big one is how fortunate it was the BGA and there was no second 
> sigmnature on the DI after rigging.
> 
> Mike
> Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978
> phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
> fax Int'l + 61 746 358796
> cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
> 
> email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
> website: www.borgeltinstruments.com 
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] ASH-25J

[rolf a. buelter]

Paul M. wrote:
 
Fuel to noise, Rolf? 
 
Paul,
 
To be fair I include my own little rattle in those.
 
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[Aus-soaring] Twin Taurus

[rolf a. buelter]

To keep the slinging match going, some info for the less fuel to noise 
converter inclined:
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.pipistrel-usa.com/newsletters/newsletter-56/newsletter-56.html
 
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[Aus-soaring] Bonus Jet

[rolf a. buelter]

For those intersted in Jet self launch:
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-planet/april-2011/daily-planet---april-26-2011/%23clip459664
 
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[Aus-soaring] Music in General

[rolf a. buelter]

For heaven's sake, why don't y'all join a men's choir and be done with it. 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow?

[rolf a. buelter]

Problem is only fools believe they are wise.
 
Rolf
 


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 19:32:39 -0700
From: icans...@y7mail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow?






 
'Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men'

Dave



From: emilis prelgauskas 
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 

Sent: Wed, 13 April, 2011 10:52:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Where to sit on tow?

In a changing world, where there seems to be a presumption that
there are prescriptive single rules for everything (so that you can die 'by the 
book');

it is worth occasionally reminding ourselves that the whole premise and basis 
of the sport of gliding is
that we do what is safe, including taking into account local unique factors;
where the recommended procedures that we have developed over the last 60 years 
from experiences across the nation are advisory and well worth following when 
they make sense,
and well worth deviating away from when they would lead you into extra dangers
which general thinking didn't take into account local circumstance.

Hence the diversity of experience and recommendations in this thread, right 
down to the tug veering off straight ahead for safety reasons when the 
prescriptive rule would say bore ahead until the rules mandates a turn.

Unfortunately, there are people who do believe everything is mandatory, rather 
than advisory, as a result of which every decade or so we seem to re-visit 
'learning by repeating mistakes learned decades before'



On 12/04/2011, at 9:00 PM, harry medlicott wrote:

> The BGA, who are extremely safety conscious and keep meticulous records of 
> safety incidents, have recently been concerned at tug upsets and discussed 
> the low tow option.
> Mostly high or low tow doesn't matter but when launching on a day with very 
> strong thermals, being in low tow or should it be called line astern, gives a 
> higher safety margin for the tug when the tug leaves the thermal and the 
> glider is still in it. Can't think of any upsets causing the death of a 
> tuggie since the GFA started reccomending low tow under Australian 
> conditions. Let's hope we don't have to reinvent the wheel.
> 
> Harry Medlicott

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Re: [Aus-soaring] No RASP data?

[rolf a. buelter]

Thanks Scott and others for your work.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 01:35:13 -0500
From: sco...@dd.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] No RASP data?





Howdy Guys

We have fixed the problem. Evidently something to do with a bug in a 3rd party 
library due to a date change. Broke RASP everywhere.

Scott







Those providing the very welcome free service are looking into it. Don't think 
they are offended.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:53:13 +1000
> From: gr...@actionforms.com.au
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] No RASP data?
> 
> It would seem that there'll be no weather this weekend.
> At least according to RASP, which currently has no data in it all
> 
> http://glidingforecast.on.net/RASP/RASPtable.html
> 
> Have I missed something or have we done something to offend the sponsors
> of this website?
> 
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-- 
http://scott.dd.com.au/
sco...@dd.com.au



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Re: [Aus-soaring] No RASP data?

[rolf a. buelter]

Those providing the very welcome free service are looking into it. Don't think 
they are offended.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:53:13 +1000
> From: gr...@actionforms.com.au
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] No RASP data?
> 
> It would seem that there'll be no weather this weekend.
> At least according to RASP, which currently has no data in it all
> 
> http://glidingforecast.on.net/RASP/RASPtable.html
> 
> Have I missed something or have we done something to offend the sponsors
> of this website?
> 
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[Aus-soaring] Ornithopter

[rolf a. buelter]

It's in german and you have to sit through 2 minutes of deodorant commercial 
but it's worth it.
 
http://www.bild.de/video/clip/hannov...3208.bild.html 
 
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[Aus-soaring] FW: Very Cool

[rolf a. buelter]

Not gliding but looks like fun. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyYujjP5J-k&feature=player_embedded

 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight Safety

[rolf a. buelter]

Simon Hacket wrote:
 
> Adrian who? 

Might that be the same Adrian we were supposed to call when a Joey software 
failed 15 years ago?
 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Darling Downs weather forecast for 5 - 6 March 2011

[rolf a. buelter]

Robert is quoting league, which is a completely different comps, scores the 
fastest 2 hours of 3 fastest flights by a club on any Sat / Sun and adds those 
up. Highest number wins the day and gets top points, those depend on number of 
clubs participating on the day. There may be some finer points but those are 
the general rules. To score DCE or league you need to submit a file from an IGC 
flight recorder. Could that be your problem Tom? For Standard OLC almost any 
logger accepted
 
Rgdss - Rolf
 


Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:05:37 -0800
From: to...@yahoo.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Darling Downs weather forecast for 5 - 6 March 2011






If Robert is taking stats from DCE part of OLC then there are some serious 
flaws there anyway!
On doing a search on myself I find 4 flights for the season however I do not 
show on any DCE list so Benalla gets 3 more good flights and Lake Keepit one.
I should be number 11 on list - unless others are missing as well!

Is DCE still run out of DDSC?

Tom

--- On Thu, 3/3/11, Bob Flood  wrote:


From: Bob Flood 
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Darling Downs weather forecast for 5 - 6 March 2011
To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" 

Received: Thursday, 3 March, 2011, 5:07 PM






H…. Flame proof jacket firmly buttoned…..
 
Interesting comment; considering not a single flight from the club field 
between 14th Dec and 22nd Jan. Fortunately a number of members flew the comp at 
Benalla and helped to make up for that.
 
I looked at the numbers a bit closer and found. 
 
Avg flight/pilot: Beverly 300k; Benalla 322k; DDSC 330k
 
Yes, certainly Alan is a great asset to the club. If you took out his flights 
DDSC would probably be still around equal to GCV if you took out all their 
visitor’s flights.
 
Despite petty interclub jealousies, the OLC is a great way to encourage more 
x-country flying and can only be good for the sport as a whole.
 
Fly safe, have fun.
 
Cheers
 
Bob Flood
 




From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Roger Druce
Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2011 1:24 PM
To: ha...@interweft.com.au ; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Darling Downs weather forecast for 5 - 6 March 2011
 
Robert,
The cheek of it all!!
The OLC result you point to is re speed.
However if you look at OLC-Plus, which is what realy matters, one sees that 
Beverley and GCV Benalla have trounced you lot.  Moreover if you took away Alan 
Barnes where would you lot be!!
Roger Druce

On 3/03/2011 7:56 AM, Robert Hart wrote: 
Hi folks

The weekend forecast is available at 
http://the-white-knight-speaks.blogspot.com and it does not look very promising 
at this stage. I will update tomorrow as usual.

Fortunately, south east Queensland has received enough soarable weather since 
the deluges in December and January to allow Darling Downs Soaring Club to win 
the OLC League - see 
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/league.html?st=olc-league&r=total

[Aus-soaring] OLC (was Darling Downs weather forecast for 5 - 6 March 2011)

[rolf a. buelter]

Bob wrote:
"the OLC is a great way to encourage more x-country flying and can only be good 
for the sport as a whole
And Jim Wrote:
"And that's the important bit"
 
I could not agree more with both statements. Nevertheless it's not called 
'Contest' for nothing. Not much wrong with comparing and pointing out the 
favourable bits achieved by the home club. If we could only convince all clubs 
at Bacchus to submit all flights, preferably as one unit / club, we would give 
most other Australian operations a run for their money.
 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Some publicity

[rolf a. buelter]

One of the better write ups I've seen in a news paper.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 


From: wommamuku...@bigpond.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:13:31 +1030
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Some publicity





>From Grafton Daily Examiner.
 
http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/story/2011/03/01/glidings-not-just-for-the-birds-flying-pilot-muir-/
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Video: Hitler's 300k triangle badge claim is rejected (English subtitles).

[rolf a. buelter]

Wonder how Teddy, Winston and Joseph reacted to such an arbitrary rejection of 
a valid claim? 
 


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:38:53 -0800
From: staniforth...@yahoo.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Video: Hitler's 300k triangle badge claim is 
rejected (English subtitles).





  Sorry I posted a link to a video which somehow got people arguing about 
something else.
Perhaps it was because Adolf wasn't a very good sport.
Jim
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Blurring the lines

[rolf a. buelter]

Hey Guys, what's holding you back? Go and buy, build, steel, beg or borrow your 
one in ten dream machine and fly it. But I guess you're waiting for "them" to 
do it. Pathetic!!
 
Rolf
 
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 13:58:17 +1100
> From: slutsw...@gmail.com
> To: anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blurring the lines
> 
> >There might be quite a few people who would be interested in returning to 
> >something more simple which offers local soaring at low cost, especially in 
> >the winter months.
> 
> Agreed.
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Forgery and sabotage

[rolf a. buelter]

Just a little note on the possible ramifications of cheating - The gentleman 
who tried to beat the system in Sweden so long ago not only was sent packing 
from the comp organisers but his employer too. Not a trifling result, he held a 
good job. Also mentioned in an earlier post, all security around flight 
recorders is incapable to prevent determined cheating, it just keeps honest 
people honest. Comp flying is really a non event for cheaters, nobody can fly 
for 5 to 10 days without being observed by fellow competitors. That's how the 
man in Sweden came to the attention of the organisers. For badges and records 
there are official observers and others further downstream.
 
Rgds - Rolf
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Video

[rolf a. buelter]

Good information and explanation. Flying in Australia from low tow position a 
different sequence applies. May want to re-read the instructors manual.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
> From: ec...@internode.on.net
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:03:53 +1030
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Video
> 
> Hello all!
> 
> I trust the enclosed video is of interest to aero tow pilots and
> instructors.
> 
> http://www.5c1.net/Boxing%20the%20Wake.htm
> 
> Kind regards to all
> 
> Bernard Eckey
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] ADS-B for R/C models and other air traffic

[rolf a. buelter]

Mike Borgelt wrote:
___
 
 You might even argue that we could legally climb up inside a fat cumulus and 
pop out a few thousand feet above cloudbase now and again  
___
 
I wouldn't feel safe doing that as the pigs which will fly then as well won't 
have ADSB nor transponders.
 
Rolf  ___
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[Aus-soaring] FW: Training via Simulator

[rolf a. buelter]

Bugger!
 


To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; rbuel...@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:17:35 +0930
Subject: Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Training via Simulator
From: anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net

 
Er.. I know Rolf is TIC here but unfortunately the computer doesn't insert the 
required miracle in time.  See media reports of an Oz Defence Force UAV which 
crashed in Canada a little while ago with a trainee operator driving it.



On Thu 30/09/10 3:28 PM , "rolf a. buelter" rbuel...@hotmail.com sent:




And first solo is conducted on an UAV where the on board computer takes 
seamlessly over if the pilot makes a stupid mistake :-)
 
Rolf
 
> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 12:53:51 +1000
> From: gr...@actionforms.com.au
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Training via Simulator
> 
> The Lismore Aero club have a PC with dual screens and a joystick running a
> flight simulator. Current students show new students how to use the
> simulator and fly circuits. New students don't get to fly aircraft until
> they can successfully complete circuits on the simulator.
> 
> This reduces costs for the students and wear on the training aircraft and
> instructors.
> 
> It's about time gliding started using technology to help people learn to fly.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Greg.
> 
> 
> 
> > The software is Condor as far as I know, which is certainly capable of
> > spinning, but I doubt the simulator will accurately represent the 'feel'
> > of
> > it.
> >
> > I have demonstrated spins in condor to people before and it's great for
> > demonstrating rate of height loss as well as airspeed in a fully developed
> > spin. Conventional recovery procedure works the same as usual.
> >
> > I do not think anyone is (yet?) advocating for simulators to replace
> > conventional two-seat training, but rather to supplement it. One could do
> > several hundred circuits in a simulator over the course of a day, whereas
> > the best I've managed at my club is probably six.
> >
> > ~Matthew~
> > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Mike Borgelt <
> > mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
> >
> >> At 11:02 AM 30/09/2010, you wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've seen a few gliding simulators come and go, and this is without a
> >>> doubt the most promising with regards to meaningful training of new
> >>> pilots.
> >>> Hope to see you all there!
> >>> -- Forwarded message --
> >>> From: Andrew Wright <
> >>> andrew.wri...@adelaide.edu.au>
> >>> Date: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:28 AM
> >>> Subject: [Ascmembers] Exciting new developements in Gliding Simulator
> >>>
> >>> Hi Everyone.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is one not to be missed!.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A new motion interactive gliding simulator will be demonstrated at the
> >>> next SAGA Winter lecture.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Does it spin?
> >>
> >> Must ask because that seems to be the first question asked by
> >> Australians
> >> when a new two seat basic training glider is mentioned.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since
> >> 1978
> >> phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  + 61 746
> 355784  end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> fax Int'l + 61 746 358796
> >> cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
> >>
> >> email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
> >> website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
> >> ___
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> >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> >> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >>
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> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Training via Simulator

[rolf a. buelter]

And first solo is conducted on an UAV where the on board computer takes 
seamlessly over if the pilot makes a stupid mistake :-)

 

Rolf
 
> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 12:53:51 +1000
> From: gr...@actionforms.com.au
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Training via Simulator
> 
> The Lismore Aero club have a PC with dual screens and a joystick running a
> flight simulator. Current students show new students how to use the
> simulator and fly circuits. New students don't get to fly aircraft until
> they can successfully complete circuits on the simulator.
> 
> This reduces costs for the students and wear on the training aircraft and
> instructors.
> 
> It's about time gliding started using technology to help people learn to fly.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Greg.
> 
> 
> 
> > The software is Condor as far as I know, which is certainly capable of
> > spinning, but I doubt the simulator will accurately represent the 'feel'
> > of
> > it.
> >
> > I have demonstrated spins in condor to people before and it's great for
> > demonstrating rate of height loss as well as airspeed in a fully developed
> > spin. Conventional recovery procedure works the same as usual.
> >
> > I do not think anyone is (yet?) advocating for simulators to replace
> > conventional two-seat training, but rather to supplement it. One could do
> > several hundred circuits in a simulator over the course of a day, whereas
> > the best I've managed at my club is probably six.
> >
> > ~Matthew~
> > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Mike Borgelt <
> > mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
> >
> >> At 11:02 AM 30/09/2010, you wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've seen a few gliding simulators come and go, and this is without a
> >>> doubt the most promising with regards to meaningful training of new
> >>> pilots.
> >>> Hope to see you all there!
> >>> -- Forwarded message --
> >>> From: Andrew Wright <
> >>> andrew.wri...@adelaide.edu.au>
> >>> Date: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:28 AM
> >>> Subject: [Ascmembers] Exciting new developements in Gliding Simulator
> >>>
> >>> Hi Everyone.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is one not to be missed!.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A new motion interactive gliding simulator will be demonstrated at the
> >>> next SAGA Winter lecture.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Does it spin?
> >>
> >> Must ask because that seems to be the first question asked by
> >> Australians
> >> when a new two seat basic training glider is mentioned.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since
> >> 1978
> >> phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting  + 61 746
> 355784  end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> >> fax Int'l + 61 746 358796
> >> cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
> >>
> >> email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
> >> website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
> >> ___
> >> Aus-soaring mailing list
> >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> >> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >>
> > ___
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> > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> > To check or change subscription details, visit:
> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing

[rolf a. buelter]

> I'm always amazed at how glider pilots are willing to compromise 
> safety in the quest to save a small amount of money which may be 
> illusory anyway. Winch launching is a good case. What was the fatal 
> accident ratio vs aerotow again?
> 
> Mike


I'm absolutely flabbergasted at how pilots of light aircraft are willing to put 
their life at risk, some even in uncertified contraptions. They don't even do 
it to save money but put their own life and that of the general public in 
jeopardy just for the thrill of it. What was the fatal accident ratio of these 
things vs regular passenger transport again?

 

The ever miserable Mr Buelter
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Re: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing

[rolf a. buelter]

The C-Falke is certainly used regularly for towing in Germany.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: skinn...@bigpond.net.au
To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:27:00 +0930
Subject: [Aus-soaring] "Super Motor Falke" and towing






Does anybody out there have any information regarding the launching of gliders 
by Motor Falke, or indeed, any other motor glider that may be used to launch?  
I’m not aware of it in Australia but I understand that there may be some such 
happening in Europe?  I am aware of Ultra lights acting as tugs but I’m 
specifically interested in motor gliders.
 
Regards
 
Richard Skinner
 
skinn...@bigpond.net.au
 
08 8431 8249
0419 818 024
 
If you want to grow old as a pilot, you've got to know
when to push it, and when to back off. Chuck Yeager
 
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
 
 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Arcus E flies

[rolf a. buelter]

Hello Simon,

 

Agree with you, I was just posting a clip of an ultralight disintegrating in a 
mild pull up to demonstrate one difference between the two concepts. Not the 
only one I don't like in ultralights.

 

On top of all the positives you cited, the batteries of that particular Arcus 
were charged by wind turbines on their hangar. The supplier of the turbine 
system is glider pilot as well. More details on their website unfortunately in 
german only.


Rgds - Rolf

 
> From: si...@internode.com.au
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:36:32 +0930
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Arcus E flies
> 
> Hey guys...
> 
> I pay for the running costs of this list, so I get to (very occasionally) 
> make a post or two about something.
> 
> Its one of those times. Here goes:
> 
> How about, when people post pictures of pretty wonderful looking new 
> technology entering our sport (not entering the ultralight sport, *our* sport 
> - soaring in sailplanes)... such as the first two-seater deployment of the 
> Lange developed electric self launch system... that we try to find something 
> *positive* to say?
> 
> Here goes - this is what *I* think about it:
> 
> "Hey, thats pretty bloody cool - finally its possible to self-launch in a 
> 50:1 aircraft, to take two people soaring, without chewing fossil fuels to do 
> it, with dramatically lower running costs and maintenance overheads compared 
> to complicated and stinky petrol engines, and to do it in a way that, 
> frankly, looks just beautiful".
> 
> That electric launch system is a doddle to use (fully automatic sequencing 
> for the startup and shutdown cycles), its quiet, it looks quite stunning in 
> operation (take a look at the videos on the Lange web site sometime)...
> 
> ... and instead, we tear it down with self-satisfied dribble like the post 
> below.
> 
> This relentless tendency to cut people down when they mention something new 
> is, to coin a phrase - getting pretty old.
> 
> Its incredibly hard, and at some level, incredibly brave, to bother to create 
> and certify new aircraft at all, in the litigious and increasingly 
> risk-averse modern world.
> 
> Why don't we celebrate - and honour - those who have the guts to keep doing 
> it, risking their capital and their reputation in the process?
> 
> I, for one, have been stuck for years in the dilemma of owning a wonderful 
> high performance self launching two seater (Stemme S10-VT), that has a 
> crushing maintenance overhead on the (in my personal view, somewhat flawed) 
> Rotax power plant being the thing that keeps it on the ground far more than 
> it could be.
> 
> I've been hanging out for the market to start releasing electric self-launch 
> two-seater gliders that look, and fly, like a proper glider, for sooo long. 
> Finally, at least one manufacturer is starting to do it.
> 
> Thats bloody fantastic!
> 
> And (in response to another post in this thread): don't get me started on 
> bagging aircraft because they cost $300,000. The road to lower cost, but 
> innovative, new aircraft (that don't suck) necessarily starts with more 
> expensive ones (that don't suck). 
> 
> Thats how it works!
> 
> Its why some people (like me) have spent that sort of money on a car (because 
> its the first production electric car that doesn't suck: 
> http://www.teslamotors.com).
> 
> And I recharge it using power that I (more than) offset back into the grid 
> via a 10 kW array of solar panels on my roof at home.
> 
> For some of you, that makes me a rich wanker, I'm sure. I appreciate that 
> you'll be saying that behind my back. I don't personally agree with that view 
> (from my point of view, I earned it, and at very considerable personal cost, 
> so I have a right to spend it any sodding way that I feel like it).
> 
> But the real point is that its people like me that give the manufacturers of 
> those vehicles (whether road going or flying) the capacity to bring out the 
> lower cost ones later, by supporting their earlier, more expensive, efforts 
> now.
> 
> Again, thats how it works.
> 
> And sure, everyone has a story about a concept  they can provide an 
> example of from  that works much better, at a cost of 
> only $2.50 plus a rubber band and some blu-tac. 
> 
> And, y'know what? They're always something that, mysteriously, never quite 
> made it commercially. I wonder why that is? 
> 
> Anyway... Thanks for listening.
> 
> I'll say this once more, to close:
> 
> "Wow, thats a beautiful looking aircraft, isn't it. I would sure love to try 
> flying that in Australia one day - and to be a part of zero carbon footprint, 
> and yet high performance, soaring, at last, with one of those in a hangar 
> charged from solar panels on the hangar roof".
> 
> Meantime: I'll now leave you to the back-biting in peace and quiet, and 
> return to my day job, of earning enough money to afford to keep this list 
> running for you all. 
> 
> (you're welcome).
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> O

[Aus-soaring] FW: Arcus E flies

[rolf a. buelter]

This one works I think



http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/...e-en-plein-vol 
 






From: rbuel...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 18:47:53 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Arcus E flies



Mr Borgelt wrote:

> The ultralight guys have a big advantage in not 
> requiring JAR22 (now CS22) certification.
 
You mean the big advantage so convincingly demonstrated in this clip: 
 
http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/...e-en-plein-vol
 
Rolf


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Arcus E flies

[rolf a. buelter]

Mr Borgelt wrote:


> The ultralight guys have a big advantage in not 
> requiring JAR22 (now CS22) certification.

 

You mean the big advantage so convincingly demonstrated in this clip: 
http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/...e-en-plein-vol ?

 

Rolf

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Street outlander explains

[rolf a. buelter]

Mats wrote:

 

> As usual there are no real facts to get a good idea of what actually
> took place. 

 

Since when are facts required on this forum (or any other) to disect an 
accident and condemm pilots?

 

Rgds - Rolf
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[Aus-soaring] FW: Death of a Movement

[rolf a. buelter]

Robert, this was meant to go to the list in the first place.
 


From: rbuel...@hotmail.com
To: ha...@interweft.com.au
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Death of a Movement
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:14:37 +1000




Agree, there need to be instructors, who are active x-country pilots. I have no 
problem with a mixed training panel, including instructors who don't or fly 
little cross country and I quite appreciate that they train the necessary 
basics and leave me with more time for x-country and comps. Our training roster 
now includes coaches during the soaring season, some are instructors, some not. 
Weekend coaching hasn't quite taken off yet due to vagaries of the weather, 
lack of two seater places and such things. Dedicated coaching events have been 
a good success.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 
 
 


Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 15:18:00 +1000
From: ha...@interweft.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a Movement

On 29/08/10 09:39, Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON wrote: 

My second area of concern is the motivation of some of the Instructors in our 
clubs, from my seat in the Tug the only time I see some members fly is when 
they are instructing, and while this is an important role it also suggests to 
me that these instructors are not taking part in other aspects of the sport and 
maybe do not understand the sporting elements of our sport; how can they be 
enthusiastic and promote something they do not understand?  

I quite agree - having instructors who are at least active XC (and perhaps 
comp) pilots is important to nurturing people through to early XC flying. 

-- 
Robert Hart  ha...@interweft.com.au
+61 (0)438 385 533   http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport

[rolf a. buelter]

> 
> Therefore, my thinking is that 40-80 hours per year of flight time would be 
> ballpark, for me. I perceive that to be low given the stories I've heard 
> about not being able to fly certain types without 500+ hours logged (which 
> would take me 6-12 years to attain). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the 
> experience needed and the opportunities, particularly in Club Class. 
> 


Hi Andrew,

 

40 to 80 hours may not be enough to qualify internationally but as regular club 
pilots go, that is the top end,  no problem at all to do a lot of x-country 
flying. I know of only one glider where their makers (Akaflieg Braunschweig's 
SB 13) require their members to have 500 hours before they permit them to fly 
it. Few clubs have gliders which can't be managed by a pilot with around 100 
hours, most need significantly less.

What i've forgotten to mention in my first post on the subject - one of our 
Juniors, not even cross country rated yet, placed very well in the 
decentralised junior comp last season. She is simply very keen to advance and 
posts every flight of any duration on the OLC.

 

Rgds - Rolf

 

 

 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport

[rolf a. buelter]

Oops, Horsham week obviously first week Feb, not Jan as I stated.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: rbuel...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:40:55 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport




Hello Andrew,
 
You've done the hard part already, some of the fun apparently too and there is 
a lot more out there. Wether you want to fly comps or not is entirely up to you 
and I won't try to pesuade you either way. The reasons however why you possibly 
don't want to or can't are not valid. I flew my first regional comp (Horsham 
week) at age 45. The average age at the nationals is (sadly) probably closer to 
50. One week flying at a state comp or similar level will give you more 
experience than one year gliding in almost any club. Don't know what gliders 
your club operates but if you can take one of them for a week there is 
absolutely no need for an own glider. Most private owners have one mostly 
because they can and want to have their toy available for more than just one 
week and the odd weekend. You'll be surprised how many have their own and 
hardly fly them. If you have fullfilled the Siver C conditions, post every 
flight to the OLC. It's fun to see what others in the same area and also 
elsewhere made out of the day. Again, I don't know how you are wired but I just 
love the competetive comparison. Not knowing where you fly makes it difficult 
to point you to coaching events but in Victoria there are 5 planned for this 
Year. Raywood (Bendigo) for all experiences over the Melbourne cup weekend, 
Benella over X-mas / New Year for beginners and advanced, Raywood between X-mas 
and New Year for juniors, Horsham end of January for Beginners and advanced and 
one possible in Mt Beauty for advanced. Additionally 2 entry level comps, 
Horsham Week first January week, Vic state comps Ararat in March.

Rgds - Rolf
 
> From: ahal...@digitalearth.com.au
> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:32:37 +1000
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Interesting discussion, especially since I am one of those new members who is 
> deciding whether or not to continue with gliding. 
> 
> Caveat: My (lack of) experience and my personal situation may, or may not, be 
> representative of others making similar decisions. 
> 
> I started gliding last year at age 42. I now have 21 hours solo time (10 
> flights), and have been fortunate to complete flights that meet all Silver C 
> requirements. So far it has been lot of fun, and resulted in a great sense of 
> achievement. From what I understand, I also approached learning to fly 
> gliders a little differently than most. (The journey so far is partly 
> documented at 
> http://www.hallam.id.au/journal/2009/11/3/learning-to-fly-gliders.html.)
> 
> I still have a *lot* to learn. I now need to decide whether to invest the 
> time and money in that learning. That means thinking about what the future 
> looks like if I do continue with gliding, and making a call on the 
> opportunity costs.
> 
> While the idea of flying in competitions is enticing I'm unlikely to be a 
> serious or regular competition pilot due to my age, the limited number of 
> hours I can fly each year, and the cost of a reasonable glider. Therefore, 
> thinking of soaring as a sport might not be realistic, for me. 
> 
> The most likely path, for me, seems to be treating soaring as more of a 
> hobby. Flying when I can, setting my own tasks, and maybe posting a few 
> flights on OLC. Competition flying is likely to be an occasional bonus rather 
> than a regular thing. I am wondering if that is going to be enough to keep me 
> interested.
> 
> If I do continue, some of the things I'd like to experience while finishing 
> my Glider Pilot Certificate are:
> 
> - More cross country soaring. Learning by doing via coaching in a dual seater 
> or pair flying with an experienced pilot.
> - Graduating to a higher performance single seater (doesn't have to be the 
> latest and greatest, 
> just good enough to maximise my enjoyment at my skill level).
> - Flying in a competition as a passenger in a dual seater.
> - More training on all aspects of safety.
> - More learning about soaring weather.
> 
> Longer term: 
> 
> - Some form of competition/challenge that encourages low hours pilots to 
> improve their skills (safely).*
> - Organised flying with pilots of similar experience.
> 
> *Formal badge claims don't really interest me at this point, unless they are 
> needed to convey my level of experience to others.
> 
> As others have said, to the newcomer there appears to be a large nebulous gap 
> between solo and elite competition. Working out what your realistic options 
> are, and therefore what you can get out of soaring, can be difficult. If you 
> don't understand what you can achieve, it is more difficult to commit the 
> time and money to find out.
> 
> Feedback is welcome.

Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport

[rolf a. buelter]

Hello Andrew,

 

You've done the hard part already, some of the fun apparently too and there is 
a lot more out there. Wether you want to fly comps or not is entirely up to you 
and I won't try to pesuade you either way. The reasons however why you possibly 
don't want to or can't are not valid. I flew my first regional comp (Horsham 
week) at age 45. The average age at the nationals is (sadly) probably closer to 
50. One week flying at a state comp or similar level will give you more 
experience than one year gliding in almost any club. Don't know what gliders 
your club operates but if you can take one of them for a week there is 
absolutely no need for an own glider. Most private owners have one mostly 
because they can and want to have their toy available for more than just one 
week and the odd weekend. You'll be surprised how many have their own and 
hardly fly them. If you have fullfilled the Siver C conditions, post every 
flight to the OLC. It's fun to see what others in the same area and also 
elsewhere made out of the day. Again, I don't know how you are wired but I just 
love the competetive comparison. Not knowing where you fly makes it difficult 
to point you to coaching events but in Victoria there are 5 planned for this 
Year. Raywood (Bendigo) for all experiences over the Melbourne cup weekend, 
Benella over X-mas / New Year for beginners and advanced, Raywood between X-mas 
and New Year for juniors, Horsham end of January for Beginners and advanced and 
one possible in Mt Beauty for advanced. Additionally 2 entry level comps, 
Horsham Week first January week, Vic state comps Ararat in March.


Rgds - Rolf

 
> From: ahal...@digitalearth.com.au
> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:32:37 +1000
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Death of a movement - start of a sport
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Interesting discussion, especially since I am one of those new members who is 
> deciding whether or not to continue with gliding. 
> 
> Caveat: My (lack of) experience and my personal situation may, or may not, be 
> representative of others making similar decisions. 
> 
> I started gliding last year at age 42. I now have 21 hours solo time (10 
> flights), and have been fortunate to complete flights that meet all Silver C 
> requirements. So far it has been lot of fun, and resulted in a great sense of 
> achievement. From what I understand, I also approached learning to fly 
> gliders a little differently than most. (The journey so far is partly 
> documented at 
> http://www.hallam.id.au/journal/2009/11/3/learning-to-fly-gliders.html.)
> 
> I still have a *lot* to learn. I now need to decide whether to invest the 
> time and money in that learning. That means thinking about what the future 
> looks like if I do continue with gliding, and making a call on the 
> opportunity costs.
> 
> While the idea of flying in competitions is enticing I'm unlikely to be a 
> serious or regular competition pilot due to my age, the limited number of 
> hours I can fly each year, and the cost of a reasonable glider. Therefore, 
> thinking of soaring as a sport might not be realistic, for me. 
> 
> The most likely path, for me, seems to be treating soaring as more of a 
> hobby. Flying when I can, setting my own tasks, and maybe posting a few 
> flights on OLC. Competition flying is likely to be an occasional bonus rather 
> than a regular thing. I am wondering if that is going to be enough to keep me 
> interested.
> 
> If I do continue, some of the things I'd like to experience while finishing 
> my Glider Pilot Certificate are:
> 
> - More cross country soaring. Learning by doing via coaching in a dual seater 
> or pair flying with an experienced pilot.
> - Graduating to a higher performance single seater (doesn't have to be the 
> latest and greatest, 
> just good enough to maximise my enjoyment at my skill level).
> - Flying in a competition as a passenger in a dual seater.
> - More training on all aspects of safety.
> - More learning about soaring weather.
> 
> Longer term: 
> 
> - Some form of competition/challenge that encourages low hours pilots to 
> improve their skills (safely).*
> - Organised flying with pilots of similar experience.
> 
> *Formal badge claims don't really interest me at this point, unless they are 
> needed to convey my level of experience to others.
> 
> As others have said, to the newcomer there appears to be a large nebulous gap 
> between solo and elite competition. Working out what your realistic options 
> are, and therefore what you can get out of soaring, can be difficult. If you 
> don't understand what you can achieve, it is more difficult to commit the 
> time and money to find out.
> 
> Feedback is welcome. 
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> On 27/08/2010, at 11:09 PM, Tim Shirley wrote:
> 
> > Paul has said it all, and Mike B has made similar comments. We need to 
> > switch people on to the sport of gliding. Not the grind of doing circuits 
> > and going solo, but al

Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident

[rolf a. buelter]

Hi Adam,

 

Don't think age of the pilots involved makes a scrap of difference, being 
nationals one would hope the necessary experience would have provided better 
outcomes. I read a number of posts in various forums (would forae be 
correcter?) and the task was close but not through airspace. There is some 
confusion if it was briefed appropriately.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:36:15 +0930
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident





I knew someone would point that out!  Sadly yes, it did happen there.  It 
would've only been marginally better if it happened at a seniors..  Spoke to 
Andy May the other night about it, he said it was due to poor task setting.
 
 
WPP
 




From: rolf a. buelter 
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:16 AM
To: aus soaring 
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident

Dare one add that the occasion was their junior nationals?
 
Rolf
 


From: aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:48:46 +0930
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident




Not good, though worse yet is the 21 pilots who flew through the red arrows 
display and had it cancelled!  Wonder what that'll mean for UK gliding in the 
future.. : (
 
 
Thank gosh the pilot is ok,
WPP
 
 




From: Christopher Mc Donnell 
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:08 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net 
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident


Pic is one in a million
 
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8348523.Glider_crashes_at_Shoreham_Airshow/



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Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident

[rolf a. buelter]

Dare one add that the occasion was their junior nationals?

 

Rolf
 


From: aussiejuniort...@hotmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:48:46 +0930
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident





Not good, though worse yet is the 21 pilots who flew through the red arrows 
display and had it cancelled!  Wonder what that'll mean for UK gliding in the 
future.. : (
 
 
Thank gosh the pilot is ok,
WPP
 
 




From: Christopher Mc Donnell 
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:08 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net 
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Another UK accident


Pic is one in a million
 
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8348523.Glider_crashes_at_Shoreham_Airshow/




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Re: [Aus-soaring] L-13 etc

[rolf a. buelter]

We were discussing the merits of various gliders to introduce people to gliding 
and their sucess doing it. I'm aware that in your estimation the 1,000 odd 
clubs and individuals who bought the 21 got it all wrong. I have no problem 
with the formation of a Mike Borgelt / Jabiru / 25m glider appreciation club 
and make it the huge success you are so certain of. I wish you all the luck you 
need.

 

The ever miserable Mr. Buelter
 
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:53:00 +1000
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] L-13 etc
> 
> At 08:18 PM 24/08/2010, you wrote:
> 
> > Schleichers didn't expect to sell 250
> > > ASH25 did they?
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike
> >I bet they didn't expect to sell 1,000 ASK 21's either. And they 
> >stopped prodicing the 25, not the 21
> >
> >Rolf
> >___
> 
> They stopped producing the 25 to replace it with the hopefully higher 
> performing ASH30Mi.
> 
> I think they rather hoped to sell 1000 ASK21s eventually based on 
> ASK13 sales. Selling 250 giant Open class two seaters was the surprise.
> 
> Mike
> Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978
> phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
> fax Int'l + 61 746 358796
> cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
> 
> email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com
> website: www.borgeltinstruments.com 
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] L-13 etc

[rolf a. buelter]

 Schleichers didn't expect to sell 250 
> ASH25 did they?
> 
> 
> Mike
I bet they didn't expect to sell 1,000 ASK 21's either. And they stopped 
prodicing the 25, not the 21

 

Rolf
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Grounded Blanik L13's

[rolf a. buelter]

Hello Patch,

 

Great to see vintage gliders put to good use rather than sit around in hangars 
and trailers like so many other good gliders. Congratulations to your 
initiative.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:06:05 +0800
From: patch...@westnet.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Grounded Blanik L13's





I have stayed quiet, seems whenever I mention Blaniks I'm given a hard time so 
I will keep this brief.
My Shortwing Kookaburra is now at Swan Hill GC, on loan to support them. Gary 
Crowleys is going to Millicent on the same deal. Other people have been in 
contact with me in the hope of finding a spare two seater. I am trying my 
hardest to help them. 
As I see it we have to pull together on this one.
Patch 
 
- Original Message -
From: "Christopher Mc Donnell" 
To: k...@riverland.net.au, "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 
Australia." 
Sent: Friday, 20 August, 2010 2:56:02 PM GMT +10:00 Canberra / Melbourne / 
Sydney
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Grounded Blanik L13's




Another SAGA club, Adelaide Hills Soaring Group has one also.

- Original Message - 
From: Kym Z 
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Grounded Blanik L13's

Dear All,
Thanks to everyone for your comments and input on this topic!  
Let's hope there's a good outcome.
Kind regards,
Kym Z.

On 16/08/2010 9:49 AM, John Hudson wrote: 
Hi Kym,

The situation with the Blanik is certainly dire, particularly if we come out
the end of the process with the aircraft permanently grounded (and that is a
real possibility).
This will also impact the "price" of the gliders.

Other Clubs in our region with Blaniks are,
a) Alice Springs.
b) Top End Gliding Club.
c) Barossa Valley Gliding Club.
d) The yet to be formally formed Coober Pedy Gliding Club, who 
   purchased the Blanik from Pt Augusta.
e) and I think Millicent GC have one.

I am looking forward to see the outcome of your email.

With best wishes,

John Hudson.


-Original Message-
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Kym Z
Sent: Monday, 16 August 2010 9:25 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Grounded Blanik L13's

  Hi all,
As you'd all know, Blaniks (unless they have the Llewelyn mod, and 
unless they comply with the limited -but badly worded criteria from the 
factory on the AD) are currently grounded...
Are we the only club still using a Blanik as our only trainer?  It's 
pretty hard to operate without a trainer... what are other clubs doing 
about the situation?
Thanks,
Kym.

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3074 - Release Date: 08/16/10 
04:05:00


-- 
-
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-





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Re: [Aus-soaring] Sale of.....

[rolf a. buelter]

No Bernard, you have not offended me at all, do hope you weren't either.

 

Did you know that, way back when the 21 came out, the scuttlebutt around the 
camp fires in the fatherland was that good old Rudolf originally planned a 
steel tube fuse for it? Obviously never confirmed but a good story anyway.

 

As to your praises for the glider, may I answer with Mandy Rice-Davies (Profumo 
affair for those not old enough) immortal words: 'They would say that wouldn't 
they?'

But jokes aside, the 21 is indeed a good trainer and has many of the fine 
traits you so eloquently espouse, but a marvel of 21st century aerodynamic 
engineering she is not. My mention of the glider in my post was only to point 
out the vintage of recent offerings of trainers in these pages. And I did grant 
that it was the most modern one on offer, that particular one not certified to 
18,000 hours I believe.

 

Best regards - Rolf





From: ec...@internode.on.net
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:07:05 +0930
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Sale of.






Hello Rolf
 
What an interesting point of view! Please allow me to present an alternative 
one.
 
I would have agreed with you if we were talking about a competition glider but 
the ASK 21 is not a racing machine. 
It is just a good trainer with superb aerobatic capabilities. In recent years 
almost 20 ASK 21 have been purchased 
by clubs and private owners in Australia and several clubs now have more than 
just one ASK 21 on line. 
 
The aircraft is an obvious evergreen and it won't be long before Schleicher 
will announce 4 digit production figures. 
Over the last 30 years several other glider manufacturers have tried to come up 
with something better (or something 
cheaper) but all of them have either failed or have gone into liquidation.
Their owners are telling me that they do not care how long ago the aircraft was 
designed - all they are intersted in is 
that the ASK 21 is the most robust trainer on the market with no maintenance 
requirements to speak of. The total 
absence of ADs and decades of trouble free operation have made it the only 
glider in the world certified for 18 000 
hours. This makes the ASK 21 by far the most cost efficient trainer in the long 
run. 
 
But not only that - the ASK 21 is also the preferred trainer for instructors 
and students alike. It is still decades ahead 
of its competitors in that it has a safety cockpit with energy absorbing 
honeycomb structure and a very comfortable 
and roomy cockpit - front and rear. Its forgiving flying characteristics are 
welcomed by some but are sometimes 
criticized as being a touch too docile. Despite of its low all up weight this 
trainer has an enviable safety record. An 
estimated 5 Million flying hours has so far only resulted in one or two 
fatalities. Compare that to ANY other trainer on 
the market.  
 
You will hardly break a world record in an ASK 21 but keep in mind that it was 
never designed for that. To condemn 
such a superb piece of engineering just because it came on the market a long 
time ago is perhaps just a little unfair. 
 
Rolf, I respect your opinion! I just hope I have not offended you by presenting 
mine.
 
Kind regards to all
 
Bernard Eckey
 
  
 
 



From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of rolf a. buelter
Sent: Thursday, 19 August 2010 8:56 AM
To: aus soaring
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Sale of.


With all due respect Emilis but what you call perfectly satisfactory hardware 
is considered scrap metal by others. The most modern piece of hardware on offer 
in the recent posts is an ASK 21, which is just a ASK 13 in fibre glass, i.e. a 
40 plus year old design and actually 30 years old. No wonder clubs are not 
queuing up to spend their limited cash on them. It's not unhealthy at all to 
want something a little more of todays equipment rather than vintage.
 
Best Regards - Rolf
 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Sale of.....

[rolf a. buelter]

The comp scene is healthy because it got of it's collective back side and 
changed.

 

The club class emerged as a highly competetive affair from the old sports and 
two seater comps, accessible to pilots with moderately priced equipment. That 
comp lost a few individuals along the way from the family / campfire / 
cameradery oriented comp to a tighly run national with international selection 
attached. Not desirable (the loss I mean) but inevitable I guess in a sport of 
individuals who only have gliding in common. 

The multi class developed from a cut throat comp with the introduction of 
handicaps and other, less obvious changes, now also accessible to older 
aircraft. Again a few individuals lost who thought their shiny, brand new 
gliders would be devalued by the appearnce of tatty old rubbish flown by common 
folks on a budget. Again, not desirable but equally inevitable.

I just hope the comp scene was not just revived by baby boomers who came into 
time and money and are now living the dreams of their youth.

 

The broader gliding scene needs to change similarily. I don't have a silver 
bullet solution but suspect it will take a lot of work by individuals. I don't 
like the way Mike is proposing at all but that is probably because I'm one of 
those old, poorly trained and qualified,  greedy intructors drooling at thought 
of free flying in the back of such desirrable machines like the ASK 13.

 

Regards - Rolf

 

 



From: emi...@emilis.sa.on.net
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:01:04 +0930
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Sale of.




I am pleased that the list is fulfilling its purpose - discussion amongst 
people widely separated across the continent.
While I fully understand the desire to offer today's capability the sport has, 
I am looking for insights as to how people are making the transition.
Without which there may be a small sport. (GFA had aspirations of membership of 
about 2000 by 2010)(the comp scene suggests a sport size of 500)

With the absence of a YearBook, I can't track for myself - how many gliders in 
the overall fleet today are <10, <20, <30 years old.  



On 19/08/2010, at 8:56 AM, rolf a. buelter wrote:



With all due respect Emilis but what you call perfectly satisfactory hardware 
is considered scrap metal by others. The most modern piece of hardware on offer 
in the recent posts is an ASK 21, which is just a ASK 13 in fibre glass, i.e. a 
40 plus year old design and actually 30 years old. No wonder clubs are not 
queuing up to spend their limited cash on them. It's not unhealthy at all to 
want something a little more of todays equipment rather than vintage.

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Sale of.....

[rolf a. buelter]

> 
> Isn't it all about bottom line. The price of a Duo or a DG500 is so much more 
> than an ASK21.
> 
> Scott


 

No, they're not Scott. Buy one same age and you pay same price.

 

Rgds - Rolf
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Sale of.....

[rolf a. buelter]

With all due respect Emilis but what you call perfectly satisfactory hardware 
is considered scrap metal by others. The most modern piece of hardware on offer 
in the recent posts is an ASK 21, which is just a ASK 13 in fibre glass, i.e. a 
40 plus year old design and actually 30 years old. No wonder clubs are not 
queuing up to spend their limited cash on them. It's not unhealthy at all to 
want something a little more of todays equipment rather than vintage.

 

Best Regards - Rolf
 
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> From: emi...@emilis.sa.on.net
> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 20:10:17 +0930
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Sale of.
> 
> Thank you all for making it clear how many second hand 2 seat 
> sailplanes are available for sale across Australia.
> For some this will be enough evidence that options for people parking 
> Blaniks in the back of hangars exist.
> I invite the small section of the sport on this list to contemplate 
> whether/why -
> - such perfectly satisfactory hardware has been unsold for some time
> - the people affected by Blanik withdrawal syndrome (BWS) haven't leapt 
> to those offerings
> - what this might reflect on the health of the sport.
> 
> I am very pleased to see that the competition scene is healthy and runs 
> a seeding list because of the potential high entry numbers.
> I invite you to contemplate what the sport profile is, where one end of 
> the spectrum is gang busters, the other end in busters, and you may 
> like to tell the list what the middle (second hand FRP) looks like.
> 
> My review suggests that with lack of resources at the foundation end, 
> the edifice of the sport is the next in line. 
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] 30th Club and Sports Class Nationals Update

[rolf a. buelter]

Just can't resist this one: Didn't know that Blanik owners have their own 
association!

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: tshir...@internode.on.net
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 14:00:15 +1000
Subject: [Aus-soaring] 30th Club and Sports Class Nationals Update






Hi All,
 
For those of you who are intending to enter this event but have not yet done 
so, I should make you aware of a situation that may put some pressure on local 
accommodation.
There is a gathering of the Beer Can Collectors Association in Benalla from 
13th-15th January, the middle weekend of the Nationals.  They are expecting 
about 150 visitors for this event.  This may make a continuous accommodation 
booking for two weeks harder to come by.
I have spoken to the organisers of the event and they are going to encourage 
their members to take accommodation on the western (Melbourne) side of Benalla. 
 If you are looking for motel accommodation could I suggest trying the Glider 
City, Rose City or Executive Hideaway first.
 
 
Cheers
 
Tim
 
se sono rose, fioriranno
 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Dual Aerotowing at Bacchus Marsh

[rolf a. buelter]

I've been on the long as well as short rope during our fun dual tow exersize 
last Saturday. In the video I'm on the long rope. I'm commenting with 
reluctance because I don't want to start a vicious discussion of right or 
wrong. Below is my opinion and experience only and others are most welcome to 
feel and do differently.

 

The book says to move into the line astern position (I add silently: when safe 
to do so). Personally I'm wary of line astern for both gliders, prefere to stay 
a little off center for both gliders. Agree, will loose a little climb 
efficiency but doubt that to be noticeable. When on the short rope I like to 
see the long one beside me, gives me a chance to bail out earlier if I feel its 
getting too close. Some gliders furthermore have the habit to increase sink 
when coming into contact with the slipstream from above, more reason to give 
the short rope glider more time to react.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: darylmac...@gmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:18:39 +0800
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Dual Aerotowing at Bacchus Marsh


See point below.

- Original Message - 
From: Peter Stephenson 
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Dual Aerotowing at Bacchus Marsh


We dual tow when we camp at Watts Bridge and recommend the gliders to get in 
line as soon as they are airborne to reduce the drag on the tug.
PeterS

Please never do that! At Beverley Soaring Society we insist on room to 
manoeuvre in the event of a short rope glider (Often the least experienced 
pilot of the combination) decending or premature release during this most 
criticle time.
 

"a)  When the combination is safely airborne, both gliders transition into 
the line astern position with the glider on the short rope remaining in 
high-tow, the glider on the long rope in low-tow. During transition, the long 
rope glider must be able to manoeuvre in order to clear his rope from the short 
rope glider without coming into conflict with the ground. Therefore, the short 
rope glider must wait for the combination to climb through 20 metres/66ft AGL 
(2/3 ht of our trees) before moving into line astern.
Remember, before establishing the line astern formation, there must always be 
sufficient height above the ground for the long rope glider to manoeuvre safely 
away from the short rope glider suffering a premature release. This might 
require 30-45 degrees of bank."
 
The video showed that Bacchus Marsh also does it our way. I suggest other clubs 
do the same.

*
John Parncutt wrote: 




Following recent discussions on this group debating the merits of different 
launching methods, I noticed that Geelong Gliding club was practicing dual tows 
today and so I shot this brief video of one of the launches.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-tCUrYOcqg


Cheers,



John
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Ops in vicinity CAAP 166-1(0) and CAAP-2(0), straw poll, correct cct entry for itinerant power a/c

[rolf a. buelter]

I've got no major issues with the standard procedures. They are more 
prescriptive than necessary but hey, that's what regulators are there for.

 

I do have a problem with circuit joining procedures in case of radio failure, 
which prescribe crosswind joining. Mixed operations, gliding using winch 
launch, could result in rather interesting situations. Takes a very diligent 
lookout on part of a number of individuals to guarantee separation.

 

Rgds - Rolf


> 
> At 01:23 2/06/2010, you wrote:
> >Got the CAAPs went to the seminars, read CAAp166-1(0) paragraph 5.3 
> >(Glider Operations page 16) and para 4.6 (Arrival and departure 
> >procedures page 10). Not much stuff for power pilots about joining glider 
> >ops:
> >
> >HTTP://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/166-1.pdf
> >HTTP://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/166-2.pdf
> >
> >I got thinking, because it talks about recommend overfly entry to 
> >the circuit (CCT) at not less than 500 ft above circuit height 
> >(which means 1,500' above aerodrome level (AAL) for airfields that 
> >don't have heavies coming in). Following assumes you are a light a/c 
> >with a circuit speed less than 150 knots.
> >
> >Refer page 11 of CAAP 166-1(0)
> >
> >1) You can enter from the live side of the circuit by overflying at 
> >1,500' AAL and then descending on the dead side of the circuit to 
> >circuit height (1,000 AAL) and then join a crosswind leg (at CCT 
> >height) that crosses the upwind half of the runway, and then join mid 
> >downwind.
> >
> >You can join from the dead side of the circuit at 1,500' AAL, do a 
> >left-hand orbit (for left hand CCTs) over the airfield and lower 
> >yourself down on the dead side of the circuit as point 1).
> >
> >2) Join early downwind at CCT height (1,000' AAL)
> >
> >3) From the live side, join mid downwind on a 45 deg angle at CCT height.
> >
> >4) Join on base leg (allowed but not recommended)
> >
> >5) Join for a straight in from not less than 3nm.
> >
> >Some of these approaches are a worry for those power brethren who 
> >aren't savvy about glider ops, and there is little information 
> >provided for them.
> >
> >The overfly approaches may be problematic because gliders may be 
> >thermalling above the airfield in this area, do we a glider pilots 
> >no need to limit our activities directly above our airfields, seems 
> >restrictive. Also, the tow aircraft often tows up through this 
> >region of airspace too. However you may have itinerant power 
> >aircraft descending and orbiting right over the airfield, and they 
> >may be more than 500' above the CCT height initially. Hopefully they 
> >know what a double cross symbol on their chart means.
> >
> >Again, if it is a winch ops, doing an overfly entry at less than 
> >2,000' AGL would be a bad idea! (see AIP ENR 5.5-1 para 1.1.2)
> >
> >The dilemma is that an itinerant a/c needs to ascertain the wind 
> >direction and runway in use, so sighting the windsock is generally a 
> >useful exercise. They could call the pie cart on the ground to 
> >ascertain the runway in use, although under the regs they are not a 
> >certified air/ground radio service (however in AIP ENR 5.5-2 para 
> >1.2.8 the tug or winch driver may advise of glider traffic on the 
> >CTAF to inbound or taxiing a/c). Listening to the take-off call from 
> >the tug or the downwind call of the gliders can also provide this 
> >information, provided the tugs or glider is also using the appropriate 
> >runway.
> >
> >If the runway is use is known, it would seem that joining an early 
> >downwind would seem a good option, because, the arrival would not be 
> >overhead the airfield, doesn't require you flying a crosswind leg 
> >across the upwind end of the runway. Your circuit would generally be 
> >slightly wider than most of the gliders' circuits, so most of the 
> >glider traffic would be inside of you and be in sight as you fly 
> >your circuit, and you would be approaching the glider traffic from 
> >below (again providing better visibility), not from above. The 
> >downside is that the circuit joining area may conflict with a tug 
> >combination climbing out.
> >
> >What should we be telling our power brethren about how to join our 
> >circuits safely? Any comments from power a/c instructors out there?
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 79, Issue 45

[rolf a. buelter]

You in Germany too, Paul?

Rolf
 


From: p...@mander.net.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:57:05 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 79, Issue 45









I’m with Ron. Paul Mander
 




From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders
Sent: Thursday, 29 April 2010 5:41 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 79, Issue 45
 
Yeah, I live in bloody Germany and still have quick look at the report just for 
fun ! And I find it a lot more interesting than a lot of the other drivel on 
the forum!
Ron S
 


From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ross McLean
Sent: Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:15
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 79, Issue 45
 
I agree, what’s the problem Dave? It’s a good report which a lot of us happen 
to appreciate. Robert please continue if you so desire.
Cheers, ROSS
 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of erich wittstock
Sent: Thursday, 29 April 2010 4:50 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 79, Issue 45
 
I quite like that particular weather report - although it is not quite for the 
area I fly here near the coast.
Robert's report is also an educational reference. We need more met literate 
people.
Four list entries per month... keep it up, Robert!
Erich

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David Lawley  wrote:

Robert,

Is it really necesary to tell the whole of the country that a QLD weather 
report is available? 

Do you not have a mailing list for your State association? If not it might be 
an idea to start one.

Dave L



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Re: [Aus-soaring] Information sort - Redballoon Marketing

[rolf a. buelter]

I wanna see anybody drive sports cars and live in mansions from earnings, 
dishonest or not, off gliding operations!!??

 

Rolf

 

 







From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of gavin wrigley
Sent: Tuesday, 16 March 2010 9:01 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Information sort - Redballoon Marketing
 
Be careful,

there are several gliding clubs in the UK that lost (are still owed) 
considerable sums of money by a firm of a very similar name. (Though it may not 
be the same people). It collapsed about four years ago, but the directors still 
drove sports cars and had a mansion or two, bought on the proceeds.
Check with the BGGC, Tiger Airways (Staverton airport) and, for that matter, 
the BGA.

Other 'gift voucher' companies often sell vouchers for Trial Flights (by any 
other name). Sometimes the recipients find that they have driven past several 
gliding clubs in order to have their voucher redeemed by a gift voucher-scheme 
participating club.

The name may be a couincidence...but...

Its usually about Grandads birthday. Hardly ever about introducing someone to 
flying.

> From: s...@bigpond.net.au
> To: aus-soar...@lists.internode..on.net
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:40:00 +1100
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Information sort - Redballoon Marketing
> 
> Ladies and Gents 
> 
> My club has been approached by a marketing company known as "Redballoon"
> about marketing our club.. We have read their sales material and looked at
> their web site where we find there are several clubs using them for the same
> purpose they are proposing to us.
> 
> We are requesting feedback from any clubs that are willing to share their
> experiences with this company with us, preferably offline; thanks in
> anticipation. 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Stuart Ferguson. 
> Club Captain 
> Canberra Gliding Club Inc.
> Mob - 0419 797508 
  
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[Aus-soaring] FQF maintenance contract

[rolf a. buelter]

Hi Mike,

 

I haven't done anything yet to enter into a contract. Like you I'm not opposed 
to the principle but am hanging out for a permanent reduction in annual cost 
based on the fact that 1/3 of the value of our glider was supplied by DG 
Flugzeugbau. Weber to date offered 2 years free, which is better than nothing 
but not quite what I'd like to get.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: durr...@gmail.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:20:04 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] DG/LS tax







The clubbing together idea is a zero sum game in that DG has a revenue problem 
and that has to be solved, at least as far as the owners are 
concerned………..another option would be to charge an ownership transfer fee……..if 
you were a government..in my case I am happy with the principle that a 
yearly maintenance contract be entered into for my glider, subject to agreement 
on what value I get for what price………the way DG approached this is less than 
optimal but the principle is OK……..its better than the other options proposed 
below.. just talk to those who have orphaned gliders about what that means 
in terms of life extension programs, upgrades and sourcing parts etc an how 
that is reflected in re-sale prices.
 
 
  
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Towing combination collision

[rolf a. buelter]

Yes Stuart, and every x-country glider pilot new how to use those, had the 
necessary instrumentation (guess they were steam driven and not electronics?) 
and employed them assidously. Some of them may even have known what the 
acronyms meant.

 

Best Regards - Rolf
 


From: s...@bigpond.net.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:05:37 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Towing combination collision


Rolf 
 
Easy - ILS/ADF/VOR/DME 

Stuart Ferguson


Sent from iPhone
0419 797508

On 14/02/2010, at 15:09, "rolf a. buelter"  wrote:




Hi Stuart,
 
How did you navigate back then? Guess it took a good deal of your attention! 
Hardly any now with those electronics. Same, in case of comp flying, for 
turnpoint documentation and a whole lot of other chores which are automated 
now. And audio varios. Airspace infringement is now easily avoided too. 
Realise, you never had them back then.
 
If you want to go back to the good old times, be careful what you wish for and 
send your contributions by snail mail and not iPhone.
 
Rgds - Rolf
 

 


From: s...@bigpond.net.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:33:14 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Towing combination collision


There were also less electronic distractions inside the cockpit back then too

Stuart Ferguson 


Sent from iPhone
0419 797508

On 13/02/2010, at 21:35, Peter Stephenson  wrote:




All aircraft have blind spots.  The skill we need to be taught and practise is 
how to manage them effectively.  I think one useful technique  is to climb or 
descend while turning and therefore being able to clear the air where we are 
moving into. ie. never climb or descend in a straight line.  When I was 
learning power in a C150/152, I was taught to lower the nose regularly during a 
climb but not turn.
PeterS

Ben Jones wrote: 



I would suggest you hop in into a Cirrus SR22 go for a blatt around the block 
and chase a pawnee from above and at a descending angle, you can lookout all 
you like and ya aint gonna see shit, the only way to clear your airspace in 
front of you in these types of aircraft in a decent would be to roll inverted.
 
In aviation too converging blind spots = big bang,Some times its just going 
to happen.
 
Low wing aircraft suck !! ;-)
 
I'll wait for the NTSB report.
 


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Towing combination collision

[rolf a. buelter]

Hi Stuart,

 

How did you navigate back then? Guess it took a good deal of your attention! 
Hardly any now with those electronics. Same, in case of comp flying, for 
turnpoint documentation and a whole lot of other chores which are automated 
now. And audio varios. Airspace infringement is now easily avoided too. 
Realise, you never had them back then.

 

If you want to go back to the good old times, be careful what you wish for and 
send your contributions by snail mail and not iPhone.

 

Rgds - Rolf

 


 


From: s...@bigpond.net.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:33:14 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Towing combination collision


There were also less electronic distractions inside the cockpit back then too

Stuart Ferguson


Sent from iPhone
0419 797508

On 13/02/2010, at 21:35, Peter Stephenson  wrote:




All aircraft have blind spots.  The skill we need to be taught and practise is 
how to manage them effectively.  I think one useful technique  is to climb or 
descend while turning and therefore being able to clear the air where we are 
moving into. ie. never climb or descend in a straight line.  When I was 
learning power in a C150/152, I was taught to lower the nose regularly during a 
climb but not turn.
PeterS

Ben Jones wrote: 



I would suggest you hop in into a Cirrus SR22 go for a blatt around the block 
and chase a pawnee from above and at a descending angle, you can lookout all 
you like and ya aint gonna see shit, the only way to clear your airspace in 
front of you in these types of aircraft in a decent would be to roll inverted.
 
In aviation too converging blind spots = big bang,Some times its just going 
to happen.
 
Low wing aircraft suck !! ;-)
 
I'll wait for the NTSB report.
 


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Re: [Aus-soaring] VMFG's DG505 winch launching at Bacchus Marsh

[rolf a. buelter]

Good Video John!

 

Winch launch courtesy of Geelong Gliding Club!

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: jparn...@bigpond.net.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:40:26 +1100
Subject: [Aus-soaring] VMFG's DG505 winch launching at Bacchus Marsh





Hi All,
 
Here’s a video of our DG505 winch launching at Bacchus Marsh last Saturday
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWrxwindlnU
 
 
Cheers,
 
 
 
John
  
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Motorfalke distances

[rolf a. buelter]

Yes Geoff, but manhole covers have quite sleek aerodynamics compared to the 
Falke and the wingloading is much better.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:47:25 +1100
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> From: geoff.vinc...@optusnet.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Motorfalke distances
> 
> Yes Mark, magnificent flight. But, as a old pommie mate used to say 
> - man-hole covers would have flown that day!
> 
> Geoff V
> 
> At 03:19 PM 18/01/2010, you wrote:
> >On January 10th, Igor Blazujevic and Derek Spencer flew 426km engine-off
> >in AUGC's Motorfalke.
> >
> >They didn't carry an IGC logger or anything with them, and it wasn't
> >a declared task, so there's no suggestion that they'll be making any
> >kind of claims for the flight...
> >
> >... but it's the kind of epic effort that deserves some kind of
> >recognition, so I'm posting about it here :)
> >
> >It does beg the question: What's the best flight anyone in Australia
> >has ever done in a Motorfalke?
> >
> > - mark
> >
> >
> >I tried an internal modem, new...@atdot.dotat.org
> > but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton
> >- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 -
> >
> >
> >
> >___
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Re: [Aus-soaring] World record in NZ over W/E

[rolf a. buelter]

Not sure about this as Ohlmann did 2,800 km plus at 187 km/h the other week 
according to OLC.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: patch...@westnet.com.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:07:52 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World record in NZ over W/E




WOW 
In 15 hours, just amazing.
Patch

- Original Message - 
From: Christopher Mc Donnell 
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net 
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:59 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] World record in NZ over W/E


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10615370
 
Chris




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Re: [Aus-soaring] (no subject)

[rolf a. buelter]

Hear, hear!

 

I wonder about people always ready to bash politicians and bureaucrats in 
general and CASA in particular but want to invite them to regulate our sport. 
90 % of Australian glider pilots will nevere have the chance to encounter the 
difficulties of flying overseas, whilst I have and will again I couldn't care 
less about the selfish folks who want to impose the authorities on us just to 
make it easier for them.

 

Rolf 


From: m...@mca.nu
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:27:31 +0100
Subject: [Aus-soaring] (no subject)





If glider pilots want their license to be recognized internationally, they have 
to be prepared to undergo the yearly medicals ( over 40)  at a cost of probably 
$300  in a licensed clinic.Not just your GP. ( anyway that's the way it is in 
Europe) It is a very thorough medical with a large number of older pilots 
failing.  
If you want to fly in Europe , France is the best place. Nicest to fly and 
relatively easy for UK and Aussie pilots. I know of 2 airfields that help the 
most, Serres with Klaus Ollman and Sisteron-Vaumeilh.
http://www.aircross.co.uk/sisteron/FlyFrance.htm
 
European glider pilots would love to have to ozzie way license instead of vast 
amounts of red tape. For the few pilots that go overseas ( like me)  it will be 
easier but I think the GFA should think twice, or rather 10 times before going 
to that system. 
 
Mart. 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] males over 55l

[rolf a. buelter]

> 2) To see stuff outside you have to be looking outside not staring at 
> or fiddling with the flight computer, flarm display etc.


Yeah, I really long for the days when I could peacefully look at my map for 
minutes on end and then at that spot on the ground for a few more to reconcile 
the two. Left plenty of time to look at the aneroid vario and wait for 30 
seconds to show what the glider was doing back then. Every now and again I 
could sneak a quick look at the wrong part of the sky where guaranteed nobody 
was. For final glide I had a nifty slide rule which didn't require all that 
long to operate and make sense of, couple of minutes would do. None of this 
incessant beeping and blinking would interrupt and disturb my concentration. 
Them were the days when I was young, indestructible and stupid. Now that I'm 
not young anymore I'm apparently blind as well and need all the help I can get.

 

Rolf

 

 

 

 

 
  
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Re: [Aus-soaring] I want one !

[rolf a. buelter]

 

"They reckon the club, like others, has been hit by "the demographic time bomb".

 

What a load of hogwash! If the GFA would have done it's job this wouldn't have 
happened!

 

Rolf

  
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Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: 1000km in QLD

[rolf a. buelter]

What chance do we have from Bacchus? Was in the air for 4 hours, scratched 150 
km together and didn't see the sun once.

Rolf
 


Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 05:44:15 -0700
From: to...@yahoo.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: 1000km in QLD





Yep, he turned Edgeroi down near Narrabri.
Both excellent flights though!
Plus David was beaten on OLC by Alan Barnes doing 982 in an LS1!
Could be a long summer! :]
Tom

--- On Sun, 18/10/09, Ian Mc Phee  wrote:


From: Ian Mc Phee 
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: 1000km in QLD
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 

Received: Sunday, 18 October, 2009, 8:25 PM


I thought Col Norman did same about 25 years ago in Mosquito but he may have 
had a TP in NSW.

They did not call him Killer Norman for nothing!! and think there was $1000 
prize for same.

Macca 


2009/10/18 Adam Woolley 



Bugger, the race is over..!
WPP
 
 
Hi All
 
Have just received a report from Kingaroy that David Jansen has just completed 
a 1,000 kilometre triangle and is the first in Queensland to have done so.
 
He went Kingaroy/Dululu/Muckadilla/Kingaroy!
 
Congratulations David!


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition

[rolf a. buelter]

Hi Tim,

 

But that's why we split it into club and sports and enable two different tasks, 
that was anyway the reason brought forward by Hank amongst others.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: tshir...@internode.on.net
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 19:11:19 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition





Hi Phil,
 
The main reason that all the task types are listed there is that there is only 
one set of rules covering all Nationals classes – multiclass, club class and 
juniors – so this is the only place they can go.  The idea was that then the 
individual events would specify in local rules which task types apply to their 
particular contests.
 
Traditionally club class did not set AST because of the wide range of glider 
types and performances competing.  The tasks would either be too short for the 
higher performance ships or too long for the lower performance.  AAT (and 
before that, POST) tasks were considered fairer.  
 
Even with the restriction in performance to international rules there is still 
a wide range, from LS8 to Libelle.  Clearly the faster gliders would have a 
huge advantage by being able to use the optimum part of the day, if a fixed 
length task was set.  While the handicap deals with some of that, it can’t fix 
it all, especially if outlandings occur because slower gliders can’t get home.
 
It’s come up a few times at pilots meetings.  Usually briefly.
 
Cheers
 
Tim
 
 
 


From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Phil
Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:52
To: Aus-soaring
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition
 

I'm looking forward to the Club Class nationals in Lake Keepit  next month. 
Dave Shorter sent out some information which included the rules. I was looking 
at task types and found the following.

The national rules on task setting state the following:

22.3 Task Types may be chosen from any two or more of the types specified in 
the authorised attachments

to these Rules provided that the chosen task type:

 is authorised by NCC for the contest and

 is published in the Local Rules

(The authorised attachment lists three types of tasks: Assigned Speed, Assigned 
area and Run tasks)

The Local rules state that

11. TASKS: Tasks shall be Assigned Area Tasks.

Not withstanding the confusing wording of rule 22.3 I was wondering why 
Assigned Speed Tasks aren't used in Club Class? At the world Club Class they 
are, and since Australia changed the rules several years ago so that only 
gliders that meet the world club class handicaps are eligible couldn't we also 
do the same. I ask because without a doubt in my opinion AST is still the most 
fun sort of racing. The limited handicap range makes the task type feasible 
where previously it wasn't. 

Does anybody out there know why we don't and would they be willing to enlighten 
me?

 

Curious

Philip Ritchie

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Re: [Aus-soaring] NAIPS for iPhone

[rolf a. buelter]

I now have to admit that in Australia I have never conducted a flight requiring 
the submission of a flight plan.

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: s...@bigpond.net.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:17:34 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NAIPS for iPhone









NAIPS is a service available on the AirServices web site that allows pilots to 
access Weather and Notam information using the Internet,
It has been round since the mid 90s, it was initially nic named “Not Actually 
Intended to Provide a Service” because it promised a lot and 
delivered very little.
 
The service has matured and it now provided a good service, and a pilot can not 
only get all their operational information from it they can also 
lodge and change their flight plan using it, but you needed a computer modems 
etc etc. Now I can access and do it all from my iPhone.
 
I will assume you have been phoning up for your Weather and Notam just like we 
did in the 70s
 
SDF.   
 




From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of rolf a. buelter
Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 7:06 PM
To: aus soaring
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NAIPS for iPhone
 
I know it's difficult to understand people who still live and think in the real 
world - but what on earth is NAIPS? The iphone thing I gather has something to 
do with verbal communication by electronic means?
 
Rgds - Rolf
 



From: s...@bigpond.net.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:22:08 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NAIPS for iPhone

Sorry David – I don’t understand the question?
 
As I said in my first post – it is an application that provides full access to 
NAIPS from your iPhone
 
SDF
 
 




From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of David Griffiths
Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 10:01 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NAIPS for iPhone
 
ok , so what is it?

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Stuart & Kerri Ferguson  
wrote:


 
Guys,
 For those of you with an iPhone there is a real neat application that 
allows you  
NAIPS access on your iPhone
 
SDF




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Creative Programming
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Re: [Aus-soaring] NAIPS for iPhone

[rolf a. buelter]

I know it's difficult to understand people who still live and think in the real 
world - but what on earth is NAIPS? The iphone thing I gather has something to 
do with verbal communication by electronic means?

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: s...@bigpond.net.au
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:22:08 +1100
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NAIPS for iPhone









Sorry David – I don’t understand the question?
 
As I said in my first post – it is an application that provides full access to 
NAIPS from your iPhone
 
SDF
 
 




From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of David Griffiths
Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 10:01 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NAIPS for iPhone
 
ok , so what is it?

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Stuart & Kerri Ferguson  
wrote:


 

Guys,

 For those of you with an iPhone there is a real neat application that 
allows you  

NAIPS access on your iPhone

 

SDF





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Creative Programming
0433 420 002





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Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham week 2010

[rolf a. buelter]

Definitely. Information from Geoff Vincent, Comps Director

 

Rgds - Rolf
 


From: johno...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:01:59 +0800
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Horsham week 2010

Hi


Does any one know if there will be a Horsham week in 2010? I can't find any 
info on the Web.
Regards,
John Orton


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[Aus-soaring] Nimeta

[rolf a. buelter]

Someone asked some time ago what a Nimeta is:

 

http://www.streifly.de/news-e.htm

 

Rgds - Rolf

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