Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Souza/Sousa Genealogy Help

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steve S,
Are you sure about that? I can't find a Manuel Souza coming into Boston on
2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from Flores. But I found a Manuel Souza coming into
Boston on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from FAIAL. It's getting to be confusing.
First you said it was Sao Miguel island, then Flores island, but I find
Faial island. What documents do you have that say Sao Miguel? What
documents say Flores? Depending on your answers to those questions will
point to the right solution. Otherwise, it's a wild goose chase.

You did a Y-DNA test with which company? Family Tree DNA or Ancestry? They
are 2 different companies. Ancestry did Y-DNA testing years ago, but they
didn't test 64 markers. FTDNA has a Y-DNA 67 test, if that is what you
mean. If you did it with Ancestry, you can transfer their Y-DNA 33 or Y-DNA
46 over to FTDNA (if you downloaded the raw data file). You won't get 33 or
46 markers though, as they aren't all compatible. You can make them
compatible by providing a swab and paying a fee:
[image: image.png]

If you did a Y-DNA test with FTDNA, you can join the Azores DNA Project.
You didn't directly say that your Stephens is a corruption of Souza though.
I'm guessing by your signature. And if you did test with FTDNA, you need to
add the Family Finder test. It's another tool to use. Y-DNA testing is a
direct line test - your father's father's father's line only. Family Finder
(autosomal DNA testing) covers all your lines going back about 200 years
from your birth. You'd have to tease them apart. If you did an Ancestry DNA
test (like the ones you see on TV), you did an autosomal DNA test and these
transfer over to FTDNA. You get matches for free. The tools and ethnicity
estimates are $19.

Set me straight on your island and hopefully I can point you in the right
direction.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 3:00 PM Steve Stevens 
wrote:

> Thanks for the information you provided. I have some other information,
> but is does not match up to San Miguel. It saya Terceira.
>
> I did the 64 Y-DNA test years ago and Ancestry chose not to use these with
> their new DNA test. I can provide the results if it would help, but it
> looks like I can not join the DNA group without a new test. I believe I
> have his entry into Boston, from Flores on the bark Sarah 2 dec 1887
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve Stevens
>
>
> On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 11:38:54 AM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> Hi Steve S,
>>
>> Sousa is the modern Portuguese spelling. Before 1911 you will see Souza.
>> At least in the Portuguese records. The set of records you'll be dealing
>> with won't be the Civil Registers but the Church records.
>>
>> Yes, Souza/Sousa and Silva are 2 of the most common names. Records over
>> there are organized on the village level. You have to know the village,
>> especially when you are dealing with Sao Miguel island. That island alone
>> holds half the population of the Azores and has approximately 70 churches
>> to look through. It's a needle in a haystack.
>>
>> You have the immigration date. Unfortunately, the emigration leaving the
>> port of Ponta Delgada on the island of Sao Miguel has some gaps in the
>> records. That 1885-1886 is one gap. The records are simply missing.
>>
>> If none of your research has turned up a village (called a freguesia) on
>> your Manuel, you'll have to research his sisters and find their immigration
>> and naturalizations. And you'll most likely have to use DNA. Your matches
>> might point towards a particular region on Sao Miguel. Or maybe you'll find
>> a cousin. If your parent(s) are alive test them first. If they are not
>> alive, test their sibling(s). If they are not alive, then you are the best
>> candidate for the DNA test. Order through the Azores DNA Project on Family
>> Tree DNA. Use this link:
>> https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=AzoresIslands
>> You want the Family Finder which is on sale for $49 (+$12.95 S -
>> includes return postage if you still reside in the U.S.). The sale ends
>> tonight (Jan. 2) at 11:59 pm PST.
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:23 AM Steve Stevens  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all!
>>>
>>> I just found this group while digging for Azores civil records or
>>> information. My great-grandfather Manuel/Manoel de Sousa/Souza was born
>>> about 28 February 1868 in ST. Michael/Sao Miguel, Azores, Portugal and
>>> immigrated to the US about 16 April 1885/86 at Boston, MA.  He was
>>> naturalized 5 Nov 1897. According to marriage records, his parents were
>>> John Soza and Mary Silva. Knowing that these names are like Smith and Jones
>>> in the US, I was hoping for some help locating Portuguese records for the
>>> family. He had three sisters, Mary (abt1871-1933), Marion Augusta 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Souza/Sousa Genealogy Help

[Steve Stevens]

Thanks for the information you provided. I have some other information, but 
is does not match up to San Miguel. It saya Terceira.

I did the 64 Y-DNA test years ago and Ancestry chose not to use these with 
their new DNA test. I can provide the results if it would help, but it 
looks like I can not join the DNA group without a new test. I believe I 
have his entry into Boston, from Flores on the bark Sarah 2 dec 1887 

Regards,

Steve Stevens


On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 11:38:54 AM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Hi Steve S,
>
> Sousa is the modern Portuguese spelling. Before 1911 you will see Souza. 
> At least in the Portuguese records. The set of records you'll be dealing 
> with won't be the Civil Registers but the Church records.
>
> Yes, Souza/Sousa and Silva are 2 of the most common names. Records over 
> there are organized on the village level. You have to know the village, 
> especially when you are dealing with Sao Miguel island. That island alone 
> holds half the population of the Azores and has approximately 70 churches 
> to look through. It's a needle in a haystack.
>
> You have the immigration date. Unfortunately, the emigration leaving the 
> port of Ponta Delgada on the island of Sao Miguel has some gaps in the 
> records. That 1885-1886 is one gap. The records are simply missing.
>
> If none of your research has turned up a village (called a freguesia) on 
> your Manuel, you'll have to research his sisters and find their immigration 
> and naturalizations. And you'll most likely have to use DNA. Your matches 
> might point towards a particular region on Sao Miguel. Or maybe you'll find 
> a cousin. If your parent(s) are alive test them first. If they are not 
> alive, test their sibling(s). If they are not alive, then you are the best 
> candidate for the DNA test. Order through the Azores DNA Project on Family 
> Tree DNA. Use this link:
> https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=AzoresIslands
> You want the Family Finder which is on sale for $49 (+$12.95 S - 
> includes return postage if you still reside in the U.S.). The sale ends 
> tonight (Jan. 2) at 11:59 pm PST.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:23 AM Steve Stevens  > wrote:
>
>> Hello all! 
>>
>> I just found this group while digging for Azores civil records or 
>> information. My great-grandfather Manuel/Manoel de Sousa/Souza was born 
>> about 28 February 1868 in ST. Michael/Sao Miguel, Azores, Portugal and 
>> immigrated to the US about 16 April 1885/86 at Boston, MA.  He was 
>> naturalized 5 Nov 1897. According to marriage records, his parents were 
>> John Soza and Mary Silva. Knowing that these names are like Smith and Jones 
>> in the US, I was hoping for some help locating Portuguese records for the 
>> family. He had three sisters, Mary (abt1871-1933), Marion Augusta (abt 
>> 1875-1943) and Gertrude Alice (???-aft 1943).
>>
>> Any help would be most appreciated.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Steve Stevens (Souza)
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>> email to azo...@googlegroups.com .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/01aba5af-ace1-446e-b253-ccf5c66bc1ee%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Researching My Paternal Grandparents - Azevedo and Sequeira

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Sandy G,

The Azorean Government digitized their records and they are housed on a
government web site, called Centro do Conhecimento dos Acores, but we just
call it the CCA. It's in Portuguese. Luckily, someone created a navigation
site for the CCA and it's in English. It's Tombo.pt. The English version is
here:
https://tombo.pt/en

The navigation is in the left pane. You can scroll down, click on Azores,
then the island (Pico or Sao Jorge), the the council, then the freguesia
(village). Or just type the freguesia in the search box at the top of the
left column.

There is no Ribeira on Pico. There's a Ribeiras, so you want to type that
into the search box. You have Norte Grande spelled correctly.

You'll also want to cross reference with the Azores GenWeb to see what
indices exist (if any) for your freguesias:
http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/ Point at: Maps, Database, Indexes.  Then
you'll need this to learn to bumble your way through the Portuguese. The
documents follow a format:
http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/research-aids-a---l/finding-your-portuguese/finding-your-portuguese-9/

Good luck,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 10:07 AM Sandy Griffith 
wrote:

> Hi everyone, I am new to the group and appreciate all of the great
> information.
>
> My paternal grandfather, Manuel Silva Azevedo, is from Ribeira, Pico and
> came to the US at age 11 to live with his uncle Joe in CA (born Feb 23,
> 1888).  My paternal grandmother, Marianna Sequeira is from Notre Grande,
> Sao Jorge (born 1889); census record shows she also came over to the US
> around age 11.  They met in Marin County, CA and married in 1911, having 10
> children including the youngest, my father (Marianna died in childbirth
> with my father in 1924; my grandfather Manuel died in 1960).  The 1920 and
> 1930 federal US census shows Uncle Joe Azevedo living the family.
>
> I welcome any tips/information for further research (I am on Ancestry but
> have hit a dead end); I know virtually nothing about either of them—who
> their parents were, potential siblings (family story that my grandfather
> had a younger sister who stayed in Pico with their mother), etc.  Three of
> four of my maternal grandparents are from Sao Jorge (Calheta), but I know
> much more about those lines (Vasconcelos, Valim, Bronco and also an
> Azevedo!). Also unfortunately I do not speak or read Portugese.  Thanks!
> Sandy
>
> --
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> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> .
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Nancy Couto]

Note that Marianno Borges was a witness for both weddings. That, along with the 
fact that Osiana (or Asiana) appears to be an uncommon name, suggests that the 
two grooms might be related. At any rate, it’s a good guess. 

I searched for information on the Osiana or Asiana surname and learned that the 
name is popular in the Philippines but is also known in Mexico and Uraguay and 
I’m sure other places as well. 

Rob, I’m a Couto and I have a very distant Ancestry DNA match with someone 
named Whaite—not you, though, and I think my match is from California. I’m 
interested in how your search plays out. Good luck!

Nancy



> On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
> 
> Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana? 
> Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an "ana" 
> sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.
> 
> I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document to 
> indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. 
> To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca 
> mailto:jessdebmendo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi Rob,
> 
> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are referring to. 
>   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in the church, they 
> went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I believe the grooms 
> were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use Osiana... their first 
> names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked like Asiana.I also 
> didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.   
> 
> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best they 
> can.  Both used a mark to sign.  
> 
> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth records.  
> 
> Debbie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  > wrote:
> Hi Cheri
> 
> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State of 
> Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same 
> place(suspicious)?
> 
> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe the 
> two individuals getting married are cousins?
> 
> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this 
> surname?
> 
> Be very interested to know.
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/b7bde4cb-4a96-479d-87f9-c649a8f47802%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .
> 
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>  
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Researching My Paternal Grandparents - Azevedo and Sequeira

[Sandy Griffith]

Hi everyone, I am new to the group and appreciate all of the great information.

My paternal grandfather, Manuel Silva Azevedo, is from Ribeira, Pico and came 
to the US at age 11 to live with his uncle Joe in CA (born Feb 23, 1888).  My 
paternal grandmother, Marianna Sequeira is from Notre Grande, Sao Jorge (born 
1889); census record shows she also came over to the US around age 11.  They 
met in Marin County, CA and married in 1911, having 10 children including the 
youngest, my father (Marianna died in childbirth with my father in 1924; my 
grandfather Manuel died in 1960).  The 1920 and 1930 federal US census shows 
Uncle Joe Azevedo living the family.

I welcome any tips/information for further research (I am on Ancestry but have 
hit a dead end); I know virtually nothing about either of them—who their 
parents were, potential siblings (family story that my grandfather had a 
younger sister who stayed in Pico with their mother), etc.  Three of four of my 
maternal grandparents are from Sao Jorge (Calheta), but I know much more about 
those lines (Vasconcelos, Valim, Bronco and also an Azevedo!). Also 
unfortunately I do not speak or read Portugese.  Thanks!  Sandy

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Cheri Mello]

de = of
o (masculine) = the
a (feminine) = the

"of the" is a contraction in Portuguese.
da = of the (feminine)
do = of the (masculine)

But if using a contraction of da or do and the next word is a vowel, the
"a" or "o" was dropped and it was written as d'. d'Avila is an example.

These were supposed to be the grammar rules there. And as we know, not
everyone writes proper grammar. And these are documents from immigrants to
Australia and I don't speak with an Australian accent, so I'm not sure what
their ears are hearing. I can figure out New England (Parhk the cahr), New
York (Quwahfee, fowark), and some others, but I don't have experience with
Australia.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:41 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good point, Cheri.  I also started looking at name ideas.   Thinking also
> the da prefix.  da Silva, etc.  did the ever use do?   That would give an o
> sound. do Sienna.   Rob, you have your work cut out for you.
>
> Debbie
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:35 AM Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana?
>> Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an
>> "ana" sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.
>>
>> I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document
>> to indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they
>> aren't. To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
>> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rob,
>>>
>>> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
>>> referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
>>> the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
>>> believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
>>> Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
>>> like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best
>>> they can.  Both used a mark to sign.
>>>
>>> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth
>>> records.
>>>
>>> Debbie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Cheri

 I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
 It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the
 State of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the
 same place(suspicious)?

 Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
 the two individuals getting married are cousins?

 In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of
 this surname?

 Be very interested to know.

 Best Regards

 Rob




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 .

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>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

I liked this list of surnames.

http://www.fernandocandido.com/portgen/portuguese-names/letter-s.html




On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:40 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good point, Cheri.  I also started looking at name ideas.   Thinking also
> the da prefix.  da Silva, etc.  did the ever use do?   That would give an o
> sound. do Sienna.   Rob, you have your work cut out for you.
>
> Debbie
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:35 AM Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana?
>> Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an
>> "ana" sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.
>>
>> I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document
>> to indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they
>> aren't. To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
>> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rob,
>>>
>>> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
>>> referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
>>> the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
>>> believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
>>> Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
>>> like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best
>>> they can.  Both used a mark to sign.
>>>
>>> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth
>>> records.
>>>
>>> Debbie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Cheri

 I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
 It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the
 State of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the
 same place(suspicious)?

 Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
 the two individuals getting married are cousins?

 In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of
 this surname?

 Be very interested to know.

 Best Regards

 Rob




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 .

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>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAJ7050vU%2B4Jc9ewov5e6TVqcxJpWut4Nof8QMsLYRt0oiOt5eA%40mail.gmail.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>> 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

Good point, Cheri.  I also started looking at name ideas.   Thinking also
the da prefix.  da Silva, etc.  did the ever use do?   That would give an o
sound. do Sienna.   Rob, you have your work cut out for you.

Debbie



On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 9:35 AM Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana?
> Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an
> "ana" sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.
>
> I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document to
> indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they
> aren't. To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
>> referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
>> the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
>> believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
>> Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
>> like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.
>>
>> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best
>> they can.  Both used a mark to sign.
>>
>> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth records.
>>
>>
>> Debbie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Cheri
>>>
>>> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
>>> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the
>>> State of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the
>>> same place(suspicious)?
>>>
>>> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
>>> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>>>
>>> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this
>>> surname?
>>>
>>> Be very interested to know.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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> 
> .
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Cheri Mello]

Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana?
Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an
"ana" sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.

I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document to
indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they
aren't. To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
> referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
> the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
> believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
> Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
> like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.
>
> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best
> they can.  Both used a mark to sign.
>
> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth records.
>
> Debbie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>
>> Hi Cheri
>>
>> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
>> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State
>> of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same
>> place(suspicious)?
>>
>> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
>> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>>
>> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this
>> surname?
>>
>> Be very interested to know.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/b7bde4cb-4a96-479d-87f9-c649a8f47802%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

Hi Rob,

I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.

Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best they
can.  Both used a mark to sign.

If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth records.

Debbie







On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:

> Hi Cheri
>
> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State
> of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same
> place(suspicious)?
>
> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>
> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this
> surname?
>
> Be very interested to know.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
> --
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> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Souza/Sousa Genealogy Help

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steve S,

Sousa is the modern Portuguese spelling. Before 1911 you will see Souza. At
least in the Portuguese records. The set of records you'll be dealing with
won't be the Civil Registers but the Church records.

Yes, Souza/Sousa and Silva are 2 of the most common names. Records over
there are organized on the village level. You have to know the village,
especially when you are dealing with Sao Miguel island. That island alone
holds half the population of the Azores and has approximately 70 churches
to look through. It's a needle in a haystack.

You have the immigration date. Unfortunately, the emigration leaving the
port of Ponta Delgada on the island of Sao Miguel has some gaps in the
records. That 1885-1886 is one gap. The records are simply missing.

If none of your research has turned up a village (called a freguesia) on
your Manuel, you'll have to research his sisters and find their immigration
and naturalizations. And you'll most likely have to use DNA. Your matches
might point towards a particular region on Sao Miguel. Or maybe you'll find
a cousin. If your parent(s) are alive test them first. If they are not
alive, test their sibling(s). If they are not alive, then you are the best
candidate for the DNA test. Order through the Azores DNA Project on Family
Tree DNA. Use this link:
https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=AzoresIslands
You want the Family Finder which is on sale for $49 (+$12.95 S - includes
return postage if you still reside in the U.S.). The sale ends tonight
(Jan. 2) at 11:59 pm PST.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:23 AM Steve Stevens 
wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> I just found this group while digging for Azores civil records or
> information. My great-grandfather Manuel/Manoel de Sousa/Souza was born
> about 28 February 1868 in ST. Michael/Sao Miguel, Azores, Portugal and
> immigrated to the US about 16 April 1885/86 at Boston, MA.  He was
> naturalized 5 Nov 1897. According to marriage records, his parents were
> John Soza and Mary Silva. Knowing that these names are like Smith and Jones
> in the US, I was hoping for some help locating Portuguese records for the
> family. He had three sisters, Mary (abt1871-1933), Marion Augusta (abt
> 1875-1943) and Gertrude Alice (???-aft 1943).
>
> Any help would be most appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve Stevens (Souza)
>
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> 
> .
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Souza/Sousa Genealogy Help

[Steve Stevens]

Hello all! 

I just found this group while digging for Azores civil records or 
information. My great-grandfather Manuel/Manoel de Sousa/Souza was born 
about 28 February 1868 in ST. Michael/Sao Miguel, Azores, Portugal and 
immigrated to the US about 16 April 1885/86 at Boston, MA.  He was 
naturalized 5 Nov 1897. According to marriage records, his parents were 
John Soza and Mary Silva. Knowing that these names are like Smith and Jones 
in the US, I was hoping for some help locating Portuguese records for the 
family. He had three sisters, Mary (abt1871-1933), Marion Augusta (abt 
1875-1943) and Gertrude Alice (???-aft 1943).

Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards,

Steve Stevens (Souza)

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Rob,

I didn't sleep well last night, so I'm not thinking well this morning.

I see 2 pages but it looks like 3 certificates. The columns for the
marriage spans 2 pages. But it's 3 marriages, not 2 like you said. So I'm
confused (or lack of sleep).

Records 16 and 17 show 2 men who are of Portuguese descent. The records are
from 1866. At that time period, women didn't have surnames. The mothers of
the groom have a butchered 2nd given name. It may be Rosa (the leading R in
Portuguese words is pronounced as an "h" so Rosa sounds like ho-sah). But
there's extra stuff there. Hosana (or Rosana) is not a Portuguese name. I
can't think of what it could be at the moment. Maybe someone else can come
up with something.

"SZ" is not a letter combination in Portuguese. So he's Tomas (in today's
modern Portuguese). You will find all kinds of variations and
butcherizations in your search.

I don't know what you mean by the same place would be suspicious. You
provided the marriage register for the District of Gulong (?) in the Colony
of Victoria, so people being from Gulong or Victoria getting married in
Gulong or Victoria would be expected.

Hope someone can come up with the 2nd name for the moms.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:

> Hi Cheri
>
> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State
> of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same
> place(suspicious)?
>
> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>
> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this
> surname?
>
> Be very interested to know.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Rob Whaite]

Hi Cheri

I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State 
of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same 
place(suspicious)?

Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe the 
two individuals getting married are cousins?

In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this 
surname?

Be very interested to know.

Best Regards

Rob




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De Coite marriage.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document