[AZORES-Genealogy] Help With Problem Verifying Whether I've Found the Correct Records

[sleeq42]

I'm so sorry that this is so long but I'm trying to give information that 
will help with you helping me. This has been a sticky problem that is 
nearly driving me nuts! I'm sure you've all been there!!

I am having trouble identifying both a baptismal record for my 4th 
great-grandfather, Caetano de Sousa, whom I identified as the father of an 
Antonia da Rosa in her birth record and marriage record, as well as a 
marriage record for his parents. Here is what I know:


Caetano de Sousa had two marriages, one to a D. Maria Espinola in 1760 (she 
died in 1763) and another to D. Maria do Santo Antonio in 1767, and I’ve 
found both these marriage records as well as baptismal records of five 
children and multiple grandchildren. From all of these records, I see that 
he is sometimes called Caetano de Sousa Pais and in one baptismal record of 
a granddaughter he was listed as Caetano de Sousa in the record but he 
signed it as Caetano de Sousa Silva. Both of his marriages were in Nossa 
Senhora de Guadalupe (both wives were parishioners there) but it was noted 
that he was a parishioner of Matriz da Santa Cruz, where all of his 
identified children were baptized.


In Caetano’s (4th GGF) first marriage record, his parents were identified 
as Caetano de Sousa and Catharina Novais.


I have searched the Guadalupe and Santa Cruz records multiple times for his 
baptismal record and find no Caetano born to the above parents listed with 
those exact names. I have also found no marriage records for a couple with 
the exact names of the parents as listed above. However, I have found the 
following, and I would appreciate input as to whether I have found 
something useful:


*Santa Cruz Parish*


The only marriage record for a Caetano de Sousa (5th GGF) during the 
possible years of his marriage was for a Caetano de Sousa and a Maria 
Novais. What is interesting here is that his father is listed as Manuel 
Pais de Coelho, which incorporates the Pais name  found for Caetano (4th 
GG) in some of the records. But, no baptismal records were found in Santa 
Cruz for a Caetano, either to this couple or to a Caetano and Catharina 
Novais. I was thinking that perhaps the name of Maria was a mistake, but 
that name is listed in both the available index and in the actual record. 
Any thoughts on this?


*Guadalupe Parish*


The only marriage to a Caetano and a Catharina Novais in Guadalupe was to a 
Caetano netto de Mendoza and Catharina de Novais de Bettencourt. It’s found 
at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-GUADALUPE-C-1717-1742/GRA-SC-GUADALUPE-C-1717-1742_item1/P38.html
  
(right page in the middle) and this was shown in the index. I also searched 
all of the actual records in case something was omitted in the index. None 
of Caetano’s parents’ names in this record include Sousa, Silva, or Pais, 
but given how surnames were sometimes omitted, is it within the realm of 
possibility that this Caetano could be Caetano’s (4th GGF) father? I did 
find that a Caetano was born to a Caetano Neto (no surnames listed) and a 
Catharina Novais. This is at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-GUADALUPE-B-1717-1730/GRA-SC-GUADALUPE-B-1717-1730_item1/P126.html
 
(right page top entry). Do you think this Caetano could be the child of the 
parents in the marriage record cited above?  I read a little about the name 
“Netto” and am wondering if it could be possible that in this case it 
refers to grandson but that the surname has been omitted.


I would greatly appreciate input as to whether the marriage record shown 
could be that of Caetano de Sousa and Catherina Novais and if the baptismal 
record would appear to be their son Caetano.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Information about relationships in this baptismal record

[sleeq42]

Thank you so much, Margaret. This certainly makes a lot more sense!
Sue

On Monday, October 31, 2016 at 9:39:28 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:
>
> They are children of Mateus Lobao but of different mothers.  The godfather 
> is son of D. Maria (deceased) the Godmother is daughter of his 2nd wife, 
>  Ana.
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 11:16 PM,  wrote:
>
>> This baptismal record is for Manuel, the second entry on the right hand 
>> page. Starting on line 8 it says that there were godparents, Manuel José 
>> and his sister Isabel do Rosario, children in the family of Matteus and his 
>> wife D. Maria, already dead. So far so good, no problem there, but in line 
>> 11 it says, if I’m reading the abbreviations correctly, that the mentioned 
>> godfather and godmother * of the second wife? of Matteus Lobão, Anna de São 
>> Francisco. Does this must just mean they’re in the family of this couple 
>> now? It already said, I believe. that they were children of Matteus and 
>> first wife D. Maria, and I've previously identified them as the parents 
>> of Manuel's mother.
>>
>>
>> *Is there a verb missing on that line or did I not recognize it?!
>>
>> Any enlightenment? 
>>
>>
>> Many thanks!!
>>
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1760-1776/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1760-1776_item1/P157.html
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Margaret M Vicente
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Information about relationships in this baptismal record

[sleeq42]

 

This baptismal record is for Manuel, the second entry on the right hand 
page. Starting on line 8 it says that there were godparents, Manuel José 
and his sister Isabel do Rosario, children in the family of Matteus and his 
wife D. Maria, already dead. So far so good, no problem there, but in line 
11 it says, if I’m reading the abbreviations correctly, that the mentioned 
godfather and godmother * of the second wife? of Matteus Lobão, Anna de São 
Francisco. Does this must just mean they’re in the family of this couple 
now? It already said, I believe. that they were children of Matteus and 
first wife D. Maria, and I've previously identified them as the parents of 
Manuel's mother.


*Is there a verb missing on that line or did I not recognize it?!

Any enlightenment? 


Many thanks!!


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1760-1776/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-B-1760-1776_item1/P157.html

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help With Obituary Translation

[sleeq42]

Many thanks to those who posted in response to my request. Thanks to you, I 
have a pretty clear idea of what it says. I appreciate your efforts very 
much.

Sue Quinn

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 8:39:55 PM UTC-7, sle...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I am hoping that someone can clarify some of this obit for me. 
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-O-1841-1860/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-O-1841-1860_item1/P159.htm
> l
>
> The first five lines are very clear: 
>
> On the twenty-eighth day of the month of April of the year of one thousand 
> eight hundred and fifty-eight, having received the Divine Sacraments of the 
> Sick, died Antonio Pereira, [written between lines is, I believe “resident 
> behind the peak” which is confirmed in Confessados] married to Antonia 
> Rosa, eighty-four years old, more or less, ….
>
>
> The remainder I think says something about being accompanied by the 
> Reverendo Collegio but there was an impossibility of doing something and 
> only something else was done in the church.
>
> Then, in the margin is written something about bad weather dealing with 
> the grave and the deceased.  
>
>
> If someone could clarify this for me, I would be most appreciative. 
>
>
> Sue Q.
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Help With Obituary Translation

[sleeq42]

I am hoping that someone can clarify some of this obit for me. 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-O-1841-1860/GRA-SC-SANTACRUZ-O-1841-1860_item1/P159.htm
l

The first five lines are very clear: 

On the twenty-eighth day of the month of April of the year of one thousand 
eight hundred and fifty-eight, having received the Divine Sacraments of the 
Sick, died Antonio Pereira, [written between lines is, I believe “resident 
behind the peak” which is confirmed in Confessados] married to Antonia 
Rosa, eighty-four years old, more or less, ….


The remainder I think says something about being accompanied by the 
Reverendo Collegio but there was an impossibility of doing something and 
only something else was done in the church.

Then, in the margin is written something about bad weather dealing with the 
grave and the deceased.  


If someone could clarify this for me, I would be most appreciative. 


Sue Q.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help With Information in Ship Record for Luis Vieira de Madeiros

[sleeq42]

Many thanks, Cheri. This helps. Having a clue about her name helps as I now 
may have better luck finding the marriage record. 

On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 1:15:34 PM UTC-7, sle...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have found the ship record for the brother of my great-grandfather, 
 Manuel Luis Vieira (de Madeiros—de Medeiros dropped in the U.S.).  It is at 
 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-FAL-1859-1867/item1/P64.html
  
 (attached). 

 In the record, Luis Vieira de Madeiros is #38. In the companion column 
 at the far right, there are several words I can't quite make out: 

 It says he is traveling with his wife and I believe her name follows 
 (can't clearly make out all of her names),  a brother (word with d follows 
 and I can't make that out, and it seems odd that the brother's name is not 
 listed). Then it lists (and the endings definitely look feminine) Anta 
 Franca  widow (Antonia Francisca—consistent with records I have that 
 indicate she would be a sister of Manuel and Luis), 2 filhos (children) 
 Maria 11 anos (?) e (and what I think is Manuel but I can't figure out what 
 follows.) 

 Luis also had two brothers named Antonio (found on the Portuguese 
 genealogy website CITEM).

 I would so appreciate help determining if what I have translated is 
 correct and identifying the parts I couldn't figure out. 


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