subject:"\[AZORES\-Genealogy\] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning"

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

2010-04-18 Thread celeste perry

OK, Cheri.  I guess this means I can eliminate Rosais, Sao Jorge as a possible 
birth place for the Joao M. Machado Deniz I seek.  Sorry I got caught up in 
this and could not get beyond it until I understood what the record said.  
 
I think I am better off leaving the translation to the professionals!
 
Celeste

Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com

--- On Sun, 4/18/10, Cheri Mello  wrote:


From: Cheri Mello 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 9:59 AM


Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu.  It was either you or Joao who taught 
me that.

Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a question 
about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread).  She's looking at baptism 
15.  On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple priest writes 
"Pai incognito."  On number 19, someone is filho de Pais incognitos, # 21 was 
pai nao sabido.  He's inconsistent.  So I went looking for the marriage of 
Jorge Machado Diniz & Maria Florinda to see who the parents were.

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html

The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias.  I 
went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not 
Diniz.

Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and 
Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira, 
daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira.  It all matches with 
the baptism.  It said there was no impediment.

I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of "d'outro" 
and go with what Eliseu said.

For those learning and wondering about some of the other terms mentioned:
Pai incognito = father unknown.  When the mother baptized the baby, she said 
that she didn't know who the father was (although, in reality, she and half the 
village knew who the father was).

Pai nao sabido = same meaning as above.  I think the literal translation of 
this one is father unknown and the literal translation of pai incognito may be 
father incognito, but the meaning is the same.

Pais incognitos = both parents unknown.  In this case, it was a baby left on a 
door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you put 
your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church).

impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's 
only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
Achada




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Re: Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

2010-04-18 Thread Karlushko

filho de outro, means the son has the same father's name 
 
Karlushko - Itajai/SC - New York/USA
Pesquisando: 
Alemanha, Belgica, Brasil, Luxemburgo, Italia, Portugal, Açores, Espanha
Agueda, Aguiar, André, Antunes, Arruda, Baptista, Beirao, Brasil, Bulcão, 
Cardoso, Correia, Costa, Dias,  Dutra,  Faria, Fernandes, Ferreira, Figueiro, 
Gaspar, Gato, 
Gomes Gonçalves, Guedes, Jorge, Leal, Lemos, Macedo, Machado, Marques, Martins, 
Matos, Mello, Miranda, Moreira, Nascimento, Netto, Nogueira, Nunes, Oliveira, 
Pereira, Ponte, Quadrado, Rebello, Rodrigues, Santos, Silva, Silveira, 
Simão, Sodré, Souza, Vieira, Zabuya, Fiorenzano, Bertemes, Reinert, Ottekier, 
Van der Gocht, de Pres, Hesse,
Laux, Schumer, Jungklaus.

--- Em dom, 18/4/10, Joao S. Lopes  escreveu:


De: Joao S. Lopes 
Assunto: Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Data: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010, 14:46






Manuel Machado dias and maria de jesus de borba's marriage:

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1776-1831/SJVMC1776-1831_item1/P109.html





De: Cheri Mello 
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Enviadas: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010 13:59:31
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu.  It was either you or Joao who taught 
me that.

Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a question 
about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread).  She's looking at baptism 
15.  On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple priest writes 
"Pai incognito."  On number 19, someone is filho de Pais incognitos, # 21 was 
pai nao sabido.  He's inconsistent.  So I went looking for the marriage of 
Jorge Machado Diniz & Maria Florinda to see who the parents were.

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html

The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias.  I 
went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not 
Diniz.

Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and 
Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira, 
daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira.  It all matches with 
the baptism.  It said there was no impediment.

I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of "d'outro" 
and go with what Eliseu said.

For those learning and wondering about some of the other terms mentioned:
Pai incognito = father unknown.  When the mother baptized the baby, she said 
that she didn't know who the father was (although, in reality, she and half the 
village knew who the father was).

Pai nao sabido = same meaning as above.  I think the literal translation of 
this one is father unknown and the literal translation of pai incognito may be 
father incognito, but the meaning is the same.

Pais incognitos = both parents unknown.  In this case, it was a baby left on a 
door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you put 
your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church).

impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's 
only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
Achada




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Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

2010-04-18 Thread Joao S. Lopes

Manuel Machado dias and maria de jesus de borba's marriage:

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1776-1831/SJVMC1776-1831_item1/P109.html

De: Cheri Mello
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Enviadas: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010 13:59:31
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu. It was either you or Joao who taught
me that.

Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a question
about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread). She's looking at baptism
15. On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple priest writes
"Pai incognito." On number 19, someone is filho de Pais incognitos, # 21 was
pai nao sabido. He's inconsistent. So I went looking for the marriage of
Jorge Machado Diniz & Maria Florinda to see who the parents were.

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html

The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias. I
went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not
Diniz.

Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and
Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira,
daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira. It all matches with
the baptism. It said there was no impediment.

I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of "d'outro"
and go with what Eliseu said.

For those learning and wondering about some of the other terms mentioned:
Pai incognito = father unknown. When the mother baptized the baby, she said
that she didn't know who the father was (although, in reality, she and half the
village knew who the father was).

Pai nao sabido = same meaning as above. I think the literal translation of
this one is father unknown and the literal translation of pai incognito may be
father incognito, but the meaning is the same.

Pais incognitos = both parents unknown. In this case, it was a baby left on a
door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you put
your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church).

impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's
only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

2010-04-18 Thread Joao S. Lopes

Jorge Machado Dias (senior) and Maria Florinda's marriage:

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1831-1860/SJVMC1831-1860_item1/P62.html

De: Cheri Mello
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Enviadas: Domingo, 18 de Abril de 2010 13:59:31
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu. It was either you or Joao who taught
me that.

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html

The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias. I
went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias, not
Diniz.

I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of "d'outro"
and go with what Eliseu said.

impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's
only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

2010-04-18 Thread Cheri Mello

Yes, I'm pretty sure of that too, Eliseu. It was either you or Joao who
taught me that.

Just to be sure, I went back to the original image that Celeste had a
question about (URL provided somewhere else in this thread). She's looking
at baptism 15. On the next page, at the bottom, on baptism 17, the purple
priest writes "Pai incognito." On number 19, someone is filho de Pais
incognitos, # 21 was pai nao sabido. He's inconsistent. So I went looking
for the marriage of Jorge Machado Diniz & Maria Florinda to see who the
parents were.

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/biblioteca_digital/SJVMC1870-1879/SJVMC1870-1879_item1/P24.html

The name of the groom isn't Jorge Machado Diniz, it's Jorge Machado Dias. I
went back to the original baptism that Celeste provided and it says Dias,
not Diniz.

Anyways, the marriage of Jorge Machado Dias, son of Jorge Machado Dias and
Maria Florinda da Silveira, married Maria do Espirito Santo da Silveira,
daughter of Manuel Silveira Pereira and Barbara Silveira. It all matches
with the baptism. It said there was no impediment.

I will have to respectfully disagree with Margaret V's analysis of "d'outro"
and go with what Eliseu said.

Pais incognitos = both parents unknown. In this case, it was a baby left on
a door step or at the church roda (wheel - it's like a Lazy Susan where you
put your offering and spin it around so it goes inside the church).

impediment = the bride and groom aren't related to each other (usually it's
only mentioned to the 3rd cousin level).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

[AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

2010-04-18 Thread Eliseu Manuel Pacheco da Silva

Hi,

 

Filho de outro MEANS sono f another man named de same way as his son. So
father and son had the same name!

 

eliseu

 

 

 

De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] Em nome de
Margaret Vicente
Enviada: sábado, 17 de Abril de 2010 22:40
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research

 

I Cheri and Celeste,

 

The translation reads somewhat differently, and if I may, "filho d'outro"
literally means "son of another" which indicates Jorge Machado Dias was of
"Unkown/incognito" or "known" but not declared father or simply son of
single Mother.

 

"Manoel son of Jorge Machado Dias, "son of another and of Maria Florinda da
Silveira", already deceased and, of his wife Maria do Espirito Santo
daughter of Manoel Silveira Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already
deceased"

 

Margaret Vicente

 

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:35 PM, celeste perry  wrote:


Thank you, again, Cheri.  I am going to set this one aside until I have more
concrete information for John M. Machado Deniz.  The "Machado Deniz" caught
my attention; however, that may just be a fluke.  I am working on trying to
get more info from the fraternal society to which he belonged, according to
his granddaughter.  

 

Celeste, Hayward, CA

Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com

--- On Sat, 4/17/10, Cheri Mello  wrote:


From: Cheri Mello 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge research
To: azores@googlegroups.com

Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 11:25 AM

 

Full transciption (some of it is faded).
1) Manoel, son of Jorge
2) Machado Diniz, son of the same name, and of
3) Maria Florinda (?) da Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated)
4) dead, and of his wife, Maria do Es-
5) prirto Santo, daughter of Manoel Silveira 
6) Pereira and of Barbara Silveira, already both dead (hyphenated)
7) dead, natives of (faded here; doesn't follow wording of next doc) 
8) (faded) freguesia of Ribeira Seca
9) that (faded) living in this
10) place of Manadas, parish of
11) Santa Barbara, something and Coun-
12) cil of the Vila of Velas, island of Sao Jorge (hyphenated)
13) Jorge; he was born on the day 30 of May
14) of the 30, I meant to say the 25 of
15) July, was baptized something (priest's name?)
16) something.  For godparents Manoel
17) Fidrazo? Pedrazo? de Borba and Izabel Delfina de
18) S. something, both single, both natives of 
19) Biscoitos of Calheta, and freguesia some-
20) thing Parish of Manadenzel? (I thought this was Manadas)
21) I think he's babbling about the priest here
22) and here
23) year of birth? of the baptism
24) one thousand eight hundred seventy and seven.

Someone really needed to water down the vinho for him!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

Re: Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

Res: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

[AZORES-Genealogy] FILHO DE OUTRO meaning

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