Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria
Hi Sam, I meant it as Alvara or Decree, not as one word. Alvara is a word of Arabian origin Al-bara which means letter or note. Alvaras started in the church in 1524 when the concern arose in of double and obscured marriages. Simplifying it is a license to get married issued by City Hall, a Civil Entity. They were licensed to marry on the 3rd and they were married on the 7th of the same month (Jan) 1874 Alvaras are issued today by City Halls for people to open new business do cosntruction etc. which in english would be permit/license Hope this helps. Margaret On 10/16/12, Sam Koester sam...@surewest.net wrote: Cheri, Denis, Shirley, MNK, Margaret and all who assisted on translations of this marriage, thank you very much. I am most appreciative. It was a very confusing one for me with words/language I was not familiar with. Margaret, I googled the Alvara/decree but; could not find anything that pertained to relatives marrying. Most that I found were references to land ownership. Can you clarify for me what the Alvara decree said? Also, maybe I'm dense but; I'm still confused as to the actual date of marriage your #1 below says: Jan 7, 1874 was the marriage date but; then you say in #3 below that the 3rd of the current month and year refers to the present action (the date and day of marriage, today) so, was it the 3rd of the current month and year that the Alvara decree came into effect or was the 3rd of Jan 1874 the date of marriage rather than the 7th? Apologies for my confusion and many thanks again for everyone's help! Sam (currently enroute to Mazatlan, MX for the winter) From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Vicente Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:02 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria Hello everyone, If reads: 1. Jan 7 1874 in my presence the bride and groom. This is the marriage date. 2. Nov 24 1873 they were given dispensation from 4th degree of consanguinity 3. se receberam por virtude do Alvara em 3 do corrente mes e ano the bride and groom accepted each other (this refers to present action, the date and day of marriage,today) as husband and wife by virtue of the Alvara/decree dated the 3rd of the current month and year. All dates are specific to their situation. Margaret On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry Sam, rushing out the door again. This marriage mostly follows the form, but there are a couple of discrepancies as you have pointed out. The marriage is January. I've seen some marriages during Lent that mention they are doing their Lenten thing, but January is not Lent. The date after the priest or bishop's name? I don't know. If I had to take a guess, that's the date he began serving the people there. As for the date at the bottom? Too much vinho? Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- Margaret M Vicente -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- Margaret M Vicente -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria
Margaret, It helps tremendously. I think I now understand the whole enchilada, as they say! What a great group this is and thank you and everyone who helped me with this one! Sam (now in Nogales, AZ for the night and crossing the border in the a.m) :-) -Original Message- From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Vicente Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 7:33 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria Hi Sam, I meant it as Alvara or Decree, not as one word. Alvara is a word of Arabian origin Al-bara which means letter or note. Alvaras started in the church in 1524 when the concern arose in of double and obscured marriages. Simplifying it is a license to get married issued by City Hall, a Civil Entity. They were licensed to marry on the 3rd and they were married on the 7th of the same month (Jan) 1874 Alvaras are issued today by City Halls for people to open new business do cosntruction etc. which in english would be permit/license Hope this helps. Margaret On 10/16/12, Sam Koester sam...@surewest.net wrote: Cheri, Denis, Shirley, MNK, Margaret and all who assisted on translations of this marriage, thank you very much. I am most appreciative. It was a very confusing one for me with words/language I was not familiar with. Margaret, I googled the Alvara/decree but; could not find anything that pertained to relatives marrying. Most that I found were references to land ownership. Can you clarify for me what the Alvara decree said? Also, maybe I'm dense but; I'm still confused as to the actual date of marriage your #1 below says: Jan 7, 1874 was the marriage date but; then you say in #3 below that the 3rd of the current month and year refers to the present action (the date and day of marriage, today) so, was it the 3rd of the current month and year that the Alvara decree came into effect or was the 3rd of Jan 1874 the date of marriage rather than the 7th? Apologies for my confusion and many thanks again for everyone's help! Sam (currently enroute to Mazatlan, MX for the winter) From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Vicente Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:02 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria Hello everyone, If reads: 1. Jan 7 1874 in my presence the bride and groom. This is the marriage date. 2. Nov 24 1873 they were given dispensation from 4th degree of consanguinity 3. se receberam por virtude do Alvara em 3 do corrente mes e ano the bride and groom accepted each other (this refers to present action, the date and day of marriage,today) as husband and wife by virtue of the Alvara/decree dated the 3rd of the current month and year. All dates are specific to their situation. Margaret On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry Sam, rushing out the door again. This marriage mostly follows the form, but there are a couple of discrepancies as you have pointed out. The marriage is January. I've seen some marriages during Lent that mention they are doing their Lenten thing, but January is not Lent. The date after the priest or bishop's name? I don't know. If I had to take a guess, that's the date he began serving the people there. As for the date at the bottom? Too much vinho? Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- Margaret M Vicente -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation Azores+directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation Azores+directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria
Cheri, Denis, Shirley, MNK, Margaret and all who assisted on translations of this marriage, thank you very much. I am most appreciative. It was a very confusing one for me with words/language I was not familiar with. Margaret, I googled the Alvara/decree but; could not find anything that pertained to relatives marrying. Most that I found were references to land ownership. Can you clarify for me what the Alvara decree said? Also, maybe I'm dense but; I'm still confused as to the actual date of marriage your #1 below says: Jan 7, 1874 was the marriage date but; then you say in #3 below that the 3rd of the current month and year refers to the present action (the date and day of marriage, today) so, was it the 3rd of the current month and year that the Alvara decree came into effect or was the 3rd of Jan 1874 the date of marriage rather than the 7th? Apologies for my confusion and many thanks again for everyone's help! Sam (currently enroute to Mazatlan, MX for the winter) From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Vicente Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:02 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria Hello everyone, If reads: 1. Jan 7 1874 in my presence the bride and groom. This is the marriage date. 2. Nov 24 1873 they were given dispensation from 4th degree of consanguinity 3. se receberam por virtude do Alvara em 3 do corrente mes e ano the bride and groom accepted each other (this refers to present action, the date and day of marriage,today) as husband and wife by virtue of the Alvara/decree dated the 3rd of the current month and year. All dates are specific to their situation. Margaret On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry Sam, rushing out the door again. This marriage mostly follows the form, but there are a couple of discrepancies as you have pointed out. The marriage is January. I've seen some marriages during Lent that mention they are doing their Lenten thing, but January is not Lent. The date after the priest or bishop's name? I don't know. If I had to take a guess, that's the date he began serving the people there. As for the date at the bottom? Too much vinho? Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- Margaret M Vicente -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria
Sorry Sam, rushing out the door again. This marriage mostly follows the form, but there are a couple of discrepancies as you have pointed out. The marriage is January. I've seen some marriages during Lent that mention they are doing their Lenten thing, but January is not Lent. The date after the priest or bishop's name? I don't know. If I had to take a guess, that's the date he began serving the people there. As for the date at the bottom? Too much vinho? Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria
Hello everyone, If reads: 1. Jan 7 1874 in my presence the bride and groom. This is the marriage date. 2. Nov 24 1873 they were given dispensation from 4th degree of consanguinity 3. se receberam por virtude do Alvara em 3 do corrente mes e ano the bride and groom accepted each other (this refers to present action, the date and day of marriage,today) as husband and wife by virtue of the Alvara/decree dated the 3rd of the current month and year. All dates are specific to their situation. Margaret On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry Sam, rushing out the door again. This marriage mostly follows the form, but there are a couple of discrepancies as you have pointed out. The marriage is January. I've seen some marriages during Lent that mention they are doing their Lenten thing, but January is not Lent. The date after the priest or bishop's name? I don't know. If I had to take a guess, that's the date he began serving the people there. As for the date at the bottom? Too much vinho? Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- Margaret M Vicente -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria
Shirley and Cheri; Thanks to both of you for helping me with this one. I do have a couple more questions though. Do you have any idea why they have indicated a date after the priest's name? I have not seen this before. Also, at the bottom it says something like: they were joined in marriage on the 3rd of the current month but; at the top it says the 7th. Which date were they actually married? I have usually seen at the bottom something like it was as above on the current day, month and year. I have also asked someone else for his ideas on the above but; thought it wouldn't hurt to see what others had to say so, any help you can give would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Sam in CA (for 2 more days!) From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheri Mello Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:12 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria Sam, The word after 4th degree is 2 words: de consanguinidade. He ran the de into consan which is then continued on the next line. They are 3rd cousins. The date in the middle after the Lord Bishop's name is 63. He misspelled 60 (cesenta instead of sessenta or sesenta (another misspelling or old spelling)). See your date in the top line of the document. I'll think about those occupations after the names of the fathers. I have an idea they are day laborers. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria
The date looks like 7 Jan 1874. They were 4th degree consanguinade. (Cousins) That is the way that I see it. Shirley in CA - Original Message - From: Sam Koester To: azores@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:42 AM Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria Hello List; Would greatly appreciate sks to check my translation below. I'm finally getting somewhere on my Santa Maria line with this marriage of my ggrandparents. I think I got most of it right but; have underlined a few lines where I really need clarification. Also, I am confused by the 3 dates in the document and what they actually refer to. Many thanks, Sam in CA Jose Soares Coelho de Figueiredo On the 7th day of the month of January in the year of 1864 in this parochial church of Santa Barbara of Villa do Porto, island of Santa Maria diocese of Angra in my presence appeared the newlyweds, Jose Soares Coelho de Figueiredo and Jacintha Umbelina de Jesus of which I know, with all papers correct and without imprediments, canonical or civil marriage for same obtained the dispensation of the kinship of the fourth degree bids that care for the most excellent judgment Reverend Lord Bishop of this diocese on the twenty fourth of November of the year one thousand eight seventy-three and he of the age of twenty eight years, single, , resident of the place of Feteireas in the parish of San Pedro of this same council where he is native and baptised, legitemite son of Jose Manoel Coelho, Ceareiro, native and baptised in that parish and of Maria Jacintha de Figueiredo, occupied in the government of her home, native and baptised in this of Santa Barbara and she of the age of 23 years, single, living in the house of her parents, in the place of Feteireis of this parish, legitimate daughter of Antonio Jose de Moura Camera and of Rosa Jacintha de Jesus, who is occupied in the government of her home, native and baptised in this parish, which bethrothed received as husband and wife and joined in marriage by Alvara da Ouvidoria Ecclastical of this same island on the date of the 3rd of current month and year, all proceeding in the correct manner and conforming to the sainted mother Apolostic Roman Catholic Church. The witnesses present -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] clarification of translation - Santa Maria
Sam, The word after 4th degree is 2 words: de consanguinidade. He ran the de into consan which is then continued on the next line. They are 3rd cousins. The date in the middle after the Lord Bishop's name is 63. He misspelled 60 (cesenta instead of sessenta or sesenta (another misspelling or old spelling)). See your date in the top line of the document. I'll think about those occupations after the names of the fathers. I have an idea they are day laborers. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
