RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi! At least there is one more: António Lobão Botelho, from Praia, born around 1590, son of Brás Fernandes Lobão Botelho and Apolónia Gonçalves. He married to Inês Gomes de Ávila. They had (at least) Manuel Correia Lobão Botelho - born 1632 and married to Maria Espínola de Mendonça - and João Correia married to Ana Veloso. De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Lee Enviada: sábado, 10 de Maio de 2014 16:08 Para: azores@googlegroups.com Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa You are correct, Margaret...my brain finally figured that outI kept thinking something right. My cousins direct ancestor is Maria Baptista de Bettencourt who married Antonio Lobao (Lobam) Botelho on October 30, 1752 in NS da Luz (Graciosa), he; in turn was the son of Antonio Lobam Botelho (per marriage record) who married Felipa Espinola (this Antonio died in July 1750 at approximately 49 years of age per death record). This now means there is a third Antonio Lobao/Lobam Botelho in the records. I will have to watch out for that. I sometimes believe they did this just to purposely confuse us in the future! grr Thank you for your help - you've helped somewhat it in sorting it outI will just keep in that the back of my mind...that he's there too and keep an eye out for him. Now, bac to the drawing boardso, to speak. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 11:43:54 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, I'm not sure how he can be your cousin's direct ancestor if he is a PRIEST. This obit is for the Vicar of the respective Parish of N. Sra. Da Luz. The church didn't allow priests to marry nor did they registered illegitimate priests' children in this respective century. At a quick glance the only relative mentioned in this will is his brother Francisco Coelho de Miranda.the rest seem to be Confrarias (Fraternal) religious orders with whom he was associated. Perhaps he's a brother of a direct ancestor? margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.net javascript: wrote: Margaret; thank you! He is my cousins direct ancestor; she is a descendant of his son (who carried the exact name and died only a few years after his father). I'm struggling to keep everything straight between them; since they had the same name. It would be nice to have a full translation; but it's not really necessary - if I could obtain the main details; that woudl be fine for now. I can get the rest at a later date. I was just fascinated with it when I found it. I knew it had to be important when I realized it took up the entire page. Again thanks - I will let Nadine (and her 90 year father) know about this. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 8:52:20 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, This death certificate is that of the Reverend Priest Antonio Lobao Botelho. It is very detailed and it will take some time to translate fully. Is this person your relation or are you just curious of the set up and what it says? The side notes speaks about donations made and Masses said in his name by his benefactors. The main body of the document aside from the norm describes where he lived, terms of his will and its appointed person (s). Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Lee mailto:shor...@suddenlink.net shor...@suddenlink.net wrote: Below the link for the obitos of Antonio Lobam Botelho - righte page (the whole page to be precise) This is one has me stumped, so to speak. I know that the date is December 12, 1747 and that he was about 87 or 88 years of age. What I can't understand is what all of the rest of it means. I'm not used to seeing these Obitos' (used othe short, quick ones). This threw me off. Also, I can't make/understand the information in the margin to the left. Any help, etc. greatly appreciated. Thank you, in advance. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769_item1/P96.html Lee Estep, Oak Hill WV -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:azores+un...@googlegroups.com azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi Eileen, You are correct :) De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Eileen Leite Enviada: sábado, 10 de Maio de 2014 19:31 Para: azores@googlegroups.com Assunto: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa Just a thought on how a priest could have legitimate children: It may not apply in this particular case, but I think that if a man is widowed he may be allowed to become a priest. Such a man may have grown children. Eileen Leite From: Lee [mailto:shorts...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2014 11:08 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com mailto:azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa You are correct, Margaret...my brain finally figured that outI kept thinking something right. My cousins direct ancestor is Maria Baptista de Bettencourt who married Antonio Lobao (Lobam) Botelho on October 30, 1752 in NS da Luz (Graciosa), he; in turn was the son of Antonio Lobam Botelho (per marriage record) who married Felipa Espinola (this Antonio died in July 1750 at approximately 49 years of age per death record). This now means there is a third Antonio Lobao/Lobam Botelho in the records. I will have to watch out for that. I sometimes believe they did this just to purposely confuse us in the future! grr Thank you for your help - you've helped somewhat it in sorting it outI will just keep in that the back of my mind...that he's there too and keep an eye out for him. Now, bac to the drawing boardso, to speak. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 11:43:54 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, I'm not sure how he can be your cousin's direct ancestor if he is a PRIEST. This obit is for the Vicar of the respective Parish of N. Sra. Da Luz. The church didn't allow priests to marry nor did they registered illegitimate priests' children in this respective century. At a quick glance the only relative mentioned in this will is his brother Francisco Coelho de Miranda.the rest seem to be Confrarias (Fraternal) religious orders with whom he was associated. Perhaps he's a brother of a direct ancestor? margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.net javascript: wrote: Margaret; thank you! He is my cousins direct ancestor; she is a descendant of his son (who carried the exact name and died only a few years after his father). I'm struggling to keep everything straight between them; since they had the same name. It would be nice to have a full translation; but it's not really necessary - if I could obtain the main details; that woudl be fine for now. I can get the rest at a later date. I was just fascinated with it when I found it. I knew it had to be important when I realized it took up the entire page. Again thanks - I will let Nadine (and her 90 year father) know about this. Lee -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi Margaret! Are you quoting na article on the web? If so please let me know about the link! Tanks :) Eliseu Pacheco da Silva Researching Açores (São Miguel and Graciosa) and Alentejo ( http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel ) -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi Eliseu, The link was supplied by Manoel in this topic above. Reposting here as requested. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667_item1/P119.html You can read more about Frei João Meireles in this link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dk-Vn_E0ZiMJ:www.ihit. pt/new/boletim.php%3Farea%3Dboletins%26id%3D80+cd=1hl=ptct=clnkgl=br You're welcome :) On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Eliseu Pacheco da Silva eliseuman...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Margaret! Are you quoting na article on the web? If so please let me know about the link! Tanks J *Eliseu Pacheco da Silva* Researching Açores (São Miguel and Graciosa) and Alentejo ( http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel ) -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi Lee, This death certificate is that of the Reverend Priest Antonio Lobao Botelho. It is very detailed and it will take some time to translate fully. Is this person your relation or are you just curious of the set up and what it says? The side notes speaks about donations made and Masses said in his name by his benefactors. The main body of the document aside from the norm describes where he lived, terms of his will and its appointed person (s). Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Lee shorts...@suddenlink.net wrote: Below the link for the obitos of Antonio Lobam Botelho - righte page (the whole page to be precise) This is one has me stumped, so to speak. I know that the date is December 12, 1747 and that he was about 87 or 88 years of age. What I can't understand is what all of the rest of it means. I'm not used to seeing these Obitos' (used othe short, quick ones). This threw me off. Also, I can't make/understand the information in the margin to the left. Any help, etc. greatly appreciated. Thank you, in advance. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769_item1/P96.html Lee Estep, Oak Hill WV -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Margaret; thank you! He is my cousins direct ancestor; she is a descendant of his son (who carried the exact name and died only a few years after his father). I'm struggling to keep everything straight between them; since they had the same name. It would be nice to have a full translation; but it's not really necessary - if I could obtain the main details; that woudl be fine for now. I can get the rest at a later date. I was just fascinated with it when I found it. I knew it had to be important when I realized it took up the entire page. Again thanks - I will let Nadine (and her 90 year father) know about this. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 8:52:20 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, This death certificate is that of the Reverend Priest Antonio Lobao Botelho. It is very detailed and it will take some time to translate fully. Is this person your relation or are you just curious of the set up and what it says? The side notes speaks about donations made and Masses said in his name by his benefactors. The main body of the document aside from the norm describes where he lived, terms of his will and its appointed person (s). Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.net javascript: wrote: Below the link for the obitos of Antonio Lobam Botelho - righte page (the whole page to be precise) This is one has me stumped, so to speak. I know that the date is December 12, 1747 and that he was about 87 or 88 years of age. What I can't understand is what all of the rest of it means. I'm not used to seeing these Obitos' (used othe short, quick ones). This threw me off. Also, I can't make/understand the information in the margin to the left. Any help, etc. greatly appreciated. Thank you, in advance. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769_item1/P96.html Lee Estep, Oak Hill WV -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi Lee, I'm not sure how he can be your cousin's direct ancestor if he is a PRIEST. This obit is for the Vicar of the respective Parish of N. Sra. Da Luz. The church didn't allow priests to marry nor did they registered illegitimate priests' children in this respective century. At a quick glance the only relative mentioned in this will is his brother Francisco Coelho de Miranda.the rest seem to be Confrarias (Fraternal) religious orders with whom he was associated. Perhaps he's a brother of a direct ancestor? margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Lee shorts...@suddenlink.net wrote: Margaret; thank you! He is my cousins direct ancestor; she is a descendant of his son (who carried the exact name and died only a few years after his father). I'm struggling to keep everything straight between them; since they had the same name. It would be nice to have a full translation; but it's not really necessary - if I could obtain the main details; that woudl be fine for now. I can get the rest at a later date. I was just fascinated with it when I found it. I knew it had to be important when I realized it took up the entire page. Again thanks - I will let Nadine (and her 90 year father) know about this. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 8:52:20 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, This death certificate is that of the Reverend Priest Antonio Lobao Botelho. It is very detailed and it will take some time to translate fully. Is this person your relation or are you just curious of the set up and what it says? The side notes speaks about donations made and Masses said in his name by his benefactors. The main body of the document aside from the norm describes where he lived, terms of his will and its appointed person (s). Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.net wrote: Below the link for the obitos of Antonio Lobam Botelho - righte page (the whole page to be precise) This is one has me stumped, so to speak. I know that the date is December 12, 1747 and that he was about 87 or 88 years of age. What I can't understand is what all of the rest of it means. I'm not used to seeing these Obitos' (used othe short, quick ones). This threw me off. Also, I can't make/understand the information in the margin to the left. Any help, etc. greatly appreciated. Thank you, in advance. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA- SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769_item1/P96.html Lee Estep, Oak Hill WV -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
You are correct, Margaret...my brain finally figured that outI kept thinking something right. My cousins direct ancestor is Maria Baptista de Bettencourt who married Antonio Lobao (Lobam) Botelho on October 30, 1752 in NS da Luz (Graciosa), he; in turn was the son of Antonio Lobam Botelho (per marriage record) who married Felipa Espinola (this Antonio died in July 1750 at approximately 49 years of age per death record). This now means there is a third Antonio Lobao/Lobam Botelho in the records. I will have to watch out for that. I sometimes believe they did this just to purposely confuse us in the future! grr Thank you for your help - you've helped somewhat it in sorting it outI will just keep in that the back of my mind...that he's there too and keep an eye out for him. Now, bac to the drawing boardso, to speak. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 11:43:54 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, I'm not sure how he can be your cousin's direct ancestor if he is a PRIEST. This obit is for the Vicar of the respective Parish of N. Sra. Da Luz. The church didn't allow priests to marry nor did they registered illegitimate priests' children in this respective century. At a quick glance the only relative mentioned in this will is his brother Francisco Coelho de Miranda.the rest seem to be Confrarias (Fraternal) religious orders with whom he was associated. Perhaps he's a brother of a direct ancestor? margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.netjavascript: wrote: Margaret; thank you! He is my cousins direct ancestor; she is a descendant of his son (who carried the exact name and died only a few years after his father). I'm struggling to keep everything straight between them; since they had the same name. It would be nice to have a full translation; but it's not really necessary - if I could obtain the main details; that woudl be fine for now. I can get the rest at a later date. I was just fascinated with it when I found it. I knew it had to be important when I realized it took up the entire page. Again thanks - I will let Nadine (and her 90 year father) know about this. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 8:52:20 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, This death certificate is that of the Reverend Priest Antonio Lobao Botelho. It is very detailed and it will take some time to translate fully. Is this person your relation or are you just curious of the set up and what it says? The side notes speaks about donations made and Masses said in his name by his benefactors. The main body of the document aside from the norm describes where he lived, terms of his will and its appointed person (s). Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.net wrote: Below the link for the obitos of Antonio Lobam Botelho - righte page (the whole page to be precise) This is one has me stumped, so to speak. I know that the date is December 12, 1747 and that he was about 87 or 88 years of age. What I can't understand is what all of the rest of it means. I'm not used to seeing these Obitos' (used othe short, quick ones). This threw me off. Also, I can't make/understand the information in the margin to the left. Any help, etc. greatly appreciated. Thank you, in advance. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA- SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769_item1/P96.html Lee Estep, Oak Hill WV -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Just a thought on how a priest could have legitimate children: It may not apply in this particular case, but I think that if a man is widowed he may be allowed to become a priest. Such a man may have grown children. Eileen Leite From: Lee [mailto:shorts...@suddenlink.net] Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2014 11:08 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa You are correct, Margaret...my brain finally figured that outI kept thinking something right. My cousins direct ancestor is Maria Baptista de Bettencourt who married Antonio Lobao (Lobam) Botelho on October 30, 1752 in NS da Luz (Graciosa), he; in turn was the son of Antonio Lobam Botelho (per marriage record) who married Felipa Espinola (this Antonio died in July 1750 at approximately 49 years of age per death record). This now means there is a third Antonio Lobao/Lobam Botelho in the records. I will have to watch out for that. I sometimes believe they did this just to purposely confuse us in the future! grr Thank you for your help - you've helped somewhat it in sorting it outI will just keep in that the back of my mind...that he's there too and keep an eye out for him. Now, bac to the drawing boardso, to speak. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 11:43:54 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, I'm not sure how he can be your cousin's direct ancestor if he is a PRIEST. This obit is for the Vicar of the respective Parish of N. Sra. Da Luz. The church didn't allow priests to marry nor did they registered illegitimate priests' children in this respective century. At a quick glance the only relative mentioned in this will is his brother Francisco Coelho de Miranda.the rest seem to be Confrarias (Fraternal) religious orders with whom he was associated. Perhaps he's a brother of a direct ancestor? margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.net javascript: wrote: Margaret; thank you! He is my cousins direct ancestor; she is a descendant of his son (who carried the exact name and died only a few years after his father). I'm struggling to keep everything straight between them; since they had the same name. It would be nice to have a full translation; but it's not really necessary - if I could obtain the main details; that woudl be fine for now. I can get the rest at a later date. I was just fascinated with it when I found it. I knew it had to be important when I realized it took up the entire page. Again thanks - I will let Nadine (and her 90 year father) know about this. Lee -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Eileen, possible but unlikely regarding the Priesthood. First, only the very rich did that. Secondly those who did usually retreated into a convent of the order of the Franciscan's, Carmelite's, Augustinian's, etc and take on the habit of Abbot's, Friars, Nuns. Take care, Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Eileen Leite eileenle...@seleite.comwrote: Just a thought on how a priest could have legitimate children: It may not apply in this particular case, but I think that if a man is widowed he may be allowed to become a priest. Such a man may have grown children. Eileen Leite *From:* Lee [mailto:shorts...@suddenlink.net] *Sent:* Saturday, May 10, 2014 11:08 AM *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa You are correct, Margaret...my brain finally figured that outI kept thinking something right. My cousins direct ancestor is Maria Baptista de Bettencourt who married Antonio Lobao (Lobam) Botelho on October 30, 1752 in NS da Luz (Graciosa), he; in turn was the son of Antonio Lobam Botelho (per marriage record) who married Felipa Espinola (this Antonio died in July 1750 at approximately 49 years of age per death record). This now means there is a third Antonio Lobao/Lobam Botelho in the records. I will have to watch out for that. I sometimes believe they did this just to purposely confuse us in the future! grr Thank you for your help - you've helped somewhat it in sorting it outI will just keep in that the back of my mind...that he's there too and keep an eye out for him. Now, bac to the drawing boardso, to speak. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 11:43:54 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, I'm not sure how he can be your cousin's direct ancestor if he is a PRIEST. This obit is for the Vicar of the respective Parish of N. Sra. Da Luz. The church didn't allow priests to marry nor did they registered illegitimate priests' children in this respective century. At a quick glance the only relative mentioned in this will is his brother Francisco Coelho de Miranda.the rest seem to be Confrarias (Fraternal) religious orders with whom he was associated. Perhaps he's a brother of a direct ancestor? margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.net wrote: Margaret; thank you! He is my cousins direct ancestor; she is a descendant of his son (who carried the exact name and died only a few years after his father). I'm struggling to keep everything straight between them; since they had the same name. It would be nice to have a full translation; but it's not really necessary - if I could obtain the main details; that woudl be fine for now. I can get the rest at a later date. I was just fascinated with it when I found it. I knew it had to be important when I realized it took up the entire page. Again thanks - I will let Nadine (and her 90 year father) know about this. Lee -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi Margaret, It happens. I descend from Frei João Meireles who had the son João baptized in Capelas on 16 feb 1659, ilha de São Miguel. See the link (middle, left side): http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667_item1/P119.html You can read more about Frei João Meireles in this link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dk-Vn_E0ZiMJ:www.ihit.pt/new/boletim.php%3Farea%3Dboletins%26id%3D80+cd=1hl=ptct=clnkgl=br Manoel Em sábado, 10 de maio de 2014 12h43min54s UTC-3, Mara escreveu: Hi Lee, I'm not sure how he can be your cousin's direct ancestor if he is a PRIEST. This obit is for the Vicar of the respective Parish of N. Sra. Da Luz. The church didn't allow priests to marry nor did they registered illegitimate priests' children in this respective century. At a quick glance the only relative mentioned in this will is his brother Francisco Coelho de Miranda.the rest seem to be Confrarias (Fraternal) religious orders with whom he was associated. Perhaps he's a brother of a direct ancestor? margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.netjavascript: wrote: Margaret; thank you! He is my cousins direct ancestor; she is a descendant of his son (who carried the exact name and died only a few years after his father). I'm struggling to keep everything straight between them; since they had the same name. It would be nice to have a full translation; but it's not really necessary - if I could obtain the main details; that woudl be fine for now. I can get the rest at a later date. I was just fascinated with it when I found it. I knew it had to be important when I realized it took up the entire page. Again thanks - I will let Nadine (and her 90 year father) know about this. Lee On Saturday, May 10, 2014 8:52:20 AM UTC-4, Mara wrote: Hi Lee, This death certificate is that of the Reverend Priest Antonio Lobao Botelho. It is very detailed and it will take some time to translate fully. Is this person your relation or are you just curious of the set up and what it says? The side notes speaks about donations made and Masses said in his name by his benefactors. The main body of the document aside from the norm describes where he lived, terms of his will and its appointed person (s). Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Lee shor...@suddenlink.net wrote: Below the link for the obitos of Antonio Lobam Botelho - righte page (the whole page to be precise) This is one has me stumped, so to speak. I know that the date is December 12, 1747 and that he was about 87 or 88 years of age. What I can't understand is what all of the rest of it means. I'm not used to seeing these Obitos' (used othe short, quick ones). This threw me off. Also, I can't make/understand the information in the margin to the left. Any help, etc. greatly appreciated. Thank you, in advance. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GRA- SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769/GRA-SC-LUZ-O-1696-1769_item1/P96.html Lee Estep, Oak Hill WV -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi Manoel,Sure does happen.I have a record of a priest on Pico whose wife died and he became a priest in that village.Same happened for a priest on Terceira.Come to think of it, there is another on Terceira like that.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa From: mances man...@gmail.com Date: Sat, May 10, 2014 2:16 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com Hi Margaret,It happens. I descend from Frei João Meireles who had the son João baptized in Capelas on 16 feb 1659, ilha de São Miguel.See the link (middle, left side):http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667_item1/P119.htmlYou can read more about Frei João Meireles in this link:http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dk-Vn_E0ZiMJ:www.ihit.pt/new/boletim.php%3Farea%3Dboletins%26id%3D80+cd=1hl=ptct=clnkgl=brManoel -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hey there Manuel, The information you provided confirms what I wrote earlier. Your ancestor is a Friar/Brother/Monk not a Priest. *Freire* Joao Meireles as written in the referenced article. The birth record, also reads illegitimate son. Please note Eileen spoke of a Priest having a legitimate children and that is not possible in the Priesthood of the Roman Catholic Church. One other thing Friar Meireles also was a Knight of the Cross of Malta, a military religious order ..here's a short clip of the article provided by your link.. .. aquele Freire João Meireles, Cavaleiro da Cruz da Malta, homem rico, vivendo de seus bens, ao tempo em Ponta Delgada, por encontrar a mãe, a D. Maria, em casa dum tio, de quem ele era amigo The article also goes on to explain the birth record and hints of how the Vicar washed his hands off of it. Aliás, no termo de baptismo do filho há uma passagem curiosa quando a certa altura se lê: ''baptizei a João(17) f.º de Frej João Mereles, e Breitis Frs f.º ilegitimo''. O que nos leva a deduzir que seria legitimo dele e ilegítimo dela, uma maneira cavalheiresca de sacudir a água do capote com a conivência do Vigário Francisco Ferraz. Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 5:45 PM, p...@dholmes.com wrote: Hi Manoel, Sure does happen. I have a record of a priest on Pico whose wife died and he became a priest in that village. Same happened for a priest on Terceira. Come to think of it, there is another on Terceira like that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa From: mances man...@gmail.com Date: Sat, May 10, 2014 2:16 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com Hi Margaret, It happens. I descend from Frei João Meireles who had the son João baptized in Capelas on 16 feb 1659, ilha de São Miguel. See the link (middle, left side): http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667_item1/P119.html You can read more about Frei João Meireles in this link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dk-Vn_E0ZiMJ:www.ihit.pt/new/boletim.php%3Farea%3Dboletins%26id%3D80+cd=1hl=ptct=clnkgl=br Manoel -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa
Hi Margaret, I just wanted to help mentioning this case because you wrote that “the church didn't allow priests to marry nor did they registered illegitimate priests' children in this respective century”. Actually, it was not so unusual Priests having illegitimate children in Portugal and you can find them on the parish records. My ancestor from São Miguel was a Friar but I descend from a Priest through my maternal line that goes back to mainland Portugal. My ancestor Padre Antonio da Silva Coutinho was born in Armamar, Viseu, Portugal, on 22 jun 1668 and died there on 20 jul 1714. From 1680 to 1740 I found on the parish records for Armamar and nearby freguesias at least 4 Priests who had illegitimate children. Manoel Em sábado, 10 de maio de 2014 23h49min37s UTC-3, Mara escreveu: Hey there Manuel, The information you provided confirms what I wrote earlier. Your ancestor is a Friar/Brother/Monk not a Priest. *Freire* Joao Meireles as written in the referenced article. The birth record, also reads illegitimate son. Please note Eileen spoke of a Priest having a legitimate children and that is not possible in the Priesthood of the Roman Catholic Church. One other thing Friar Meireles also was a Knight of the Cross of Malta, a military religious order ..here's a short clip of the article provided by your link.. .. aquele Freire João Meireles, Cavaleiro da Cruz da Malta, homem rico, vivendo de seus bens, ao tempo em Ponta Delgada, por encontrar a mãe, a D. Maria, em casa dum tio, de quem ele era amigo The article also goes on to explain the birth record and hints of how the Vicar washed his hands off of it. Aliás, no termo de baptismo do filho há uma passagem curiosa quando a certa altura se lê: ''baptizei a João(17) f.º de Frej João Mereles, e Breitis Frs f.º ilegitimo''. O que nos leva a deduzir que seria legitimo dele e ilegítimo dela, uma maneira cavalheiresca de sacudir a água do capote com a conivência do Vigário Francisco Ferraz. Margaret On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 5:45 PM, pi...@dholmes.com javascript: wrote: Hi Manoel, Sure does happen. I have a record of a priest on Pico whose wife died and he became a priest in that village. Same happened for a priest on Terceira. Come to think of it, there is another on Terceira like that. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Obitos - Graciosa From: mances man...@gmail.com javascript: Date: Sat, May 10, 2014 2:16 pm To: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: Hi Margaret, It happens. I descend from Frei João Meireles who had the son João baptized in Capelas on 16 feb 1659, ilha de São Miguel. See the link (middle, left side): http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667/SMG-PD-CAPELAS-B-1595-1667_item1/P119.html You can read more about Frei João Meireles in this link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dk-Vn_E0ZiMJ:www.ihit.pt/new/boletim.php%3Farea%3Dboletins%26id%3D80+cd=1hl=ptct=clnkgl=br Manoel -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
