RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Backstage: You're not on the list, you're not coming in :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jakob Fix Sent: Tue 31/10/2006 15:21 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts On 10/31/06, James Boardwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: playing on the whole theatrical metaphor: or how about a FULL ACCESS backstage pass/t-shirt? -- cheers, Jakob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ winmail.dat
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
On 10/31/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea a lot!I can imagine we could run the mail archives through a tag cloud maker and generate pretty much everything we need. How cool would it be if peoples names came up? :) If you want to see what the current tag cloud may look like (based on the subject lines in the unofficial mail archive), see here: http://menti.net/?p=40Cheers,Mario.
RE: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs
Wow that's a awesome find! Good stuff, but I would have thought the KML file would be easier to work on because its simply XML right? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason CartwrightSent: 31 October 2006 15:20To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs http://www.webkuehn.de/hobbys/wikipedia/geokoordinaten/index_en.htm What a goldmine - all the latt/longs extracted from Wikipedia and compiled into a CSV. J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer -CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 57) 59487 Mobile: 07976500729 "Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here" - Ray Bradbury
RE: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs
So it is... a KMZ is a zipped KML, which is a whole hunk of loverly parsable XML (in this case 32mb of it). I didn't know that. Nice. J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian ForresterSent: 01 November 2006 10:34To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs Wow that's a awesome find! Good stuff, but I would have thought the KML file would be easier to work on because its simply XML right? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason CartwrightSent: 31 October 2006 15:20To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs http://www.webkuehn.de/hobbys/wikipedia/geokoordinaten/index_en.htm What a goldmine - all the latt/longs extracted from Wikipedia and compiled into a CSV. J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer -CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 57) 59487 Mobile: 07976500729 "Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here" - Ray Bradbury
RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
That is awesome :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario MentiSent: 01 November 2006 10:35To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts On 10/31/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea a lot!I can imagine we could run the mail archives through a tag cloud maker and generate pretty much everything we need. How cool would it be if peoples names came up? :) If you want to see what the current tag cloud may look like (based on the subject lines in the unofficial mail archive), see here: http://menti.net/?p=40Cheers,Mario.
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
On 10/31/06, James Boardwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: playing on the whole theatrical metaphor: ...command line not chorus line enter backstage alt *left* ... an open deleteair/delete source production Not to be a party-pooper but one thing that characterised my initial impression of backstage was disappointment at the number of things people were doing that were NOT open source, especially from some of the more prolific authors here. MighTyV seemed to be the exception, and good for them. Yet, I see these little widgets mash-ups go by, cool 'n all ... but no code, so who cares? A shame! (And soo last millennium). Here's an apposite backstage t-shirt slogan: backstage.bbc.co.uk: Get with the Program Paul - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] 2 hours till the deadline of the widget competition
Just a final warning if you want to enter your widgets. Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts (buffy buffy buffy)
Mario Menti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 10/31/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea a lot! I can imagine we could run the mail archives through a tag cloud maker and generate pretty much everything we need. How cool would it be if peoples names came up? :) If you want to see what the current tag cloud may look like (based on the subject lines in the unofficial mail archive), see here: http://menti.net/?p=40 That's cool! I think the tag cloud will need to be wider so that it can be wrapped round the whole body (or at least the front and back) The t-shirt might be more expensive that way but it would sure be cool. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Not to be a party-pooper but one thing that characterised my initial impression of backstage was disappointment at the number of things people were doing that were NOT open source, especially from some of the more prolific authors here. I think there is certainly something very different about the backstage development community compared to other developer networks. Not a lot of code does get shared, yes I agree. But I don't believe the reason is because people don't care. Maybe the time just hasn't come up yet or even people feel Backstage isn't the place to get really into the code? Yet, I see these little widgets mash-ups go by, cool 'n all ... but no code, so who cares? A shame! (And soo last millennium). The widget competition comes at a very interesting point in there conception. People are sitting up and thinking about what's actually possible with widgets and where there path into the future goes. So last millennium I would certainly disagree. There's also nothing stopping people from sharing the code of the widgets. Ideally when we first wrote the competition, we were going to post up the entries straight away, so everyone could discuss and learn from each other. But with the prizes and contest element to it all, it didn't seem feasible. We've learned from that, and you will found out on Monday 6th what were planning next. I certainly feel the next thing will make people collaborate more and who knows what might happen. But on a side point. I'm not saying collaboration isn't happening! I've seen examples where someone will take some rough and barely ready data source and wrap it up in something much more understandable. Then someone will write a prototype off that. This may not be the model your after? But I think the game has changed, this is the modern eco-system of development. I'm really happy to discuss this more if people are happy to? Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] 2 hours till the deadline of the widget competition
Hi, I posted a comment to the widgets competition blog post a number of days ago, but the comment was never approved and I never heard any response. Basically, I was asking for clarification on the competition rules - whether a 'widget' should be something that lives on a desktop (as the examples given in the post suggest) or if it could be something wider, such as a browser extension or Greasemonkey script (as suggested by the Wikipedia article linked from the post). This is a shame, because I had a particular idea in mind. I didn't go ahead with it, because I was concerned it might not meet the criteria. I rarely a case for moderation on blogs, but at least when they are moderated, I think it is important that someone is regularly checking the comments and approving the relevant ones. (I am assuming here that my comment was relevant to the post, which I think it was). Maybe next time... Premasagar. -- Portfolio .:::. http://premasagar.com Collective Blog .:::. http://dharmasphere.org Photos .:::. http://flickr.com/photos/dharmasphere - Original Message - From: Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: [backstage] 2 hours till the deadline of the widget competition Just a final warning if you want to enter your widgets. Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs
It's not just lat and longs, but you can use the height above sea-leveltoo: Freeview transmitters: http://www.ukfree.tv/kmls.php UK analogue shutdown/digital switchover tour: http://www.ukfree.tv/kmla.php Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason CartwrightSent: 01 November 2006 10:54To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs So it is... a KMZ is a zipped KML, which is a whole hunk of loverly parsable XML (in this case 32mb of it). I didn't know that. Nice. J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian ForresterSent: 01 November 2006 10:34To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs Wow that's a awesome find! Good stuff, but I would have thought the KML file would be easier to work on because its simply XML right? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason CartwrightSent: 31 October 2006 15:20To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs http://www.webkuehn.de/hobbys/wikipedia/geokoordinaten/index_en.htm What a goldmine - all the latt/longs extracted from Wikipedia and compiled into a CSV. J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer -CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 57) 59487 Mobile: 07976500729 "Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here" - Ray Bradbury --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/509 - Release Date: 31/10/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/509 - Release Date: 31/10/2006
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think there is certainly something very different about the backstage development community compared to other developer networks. Not a lot of code does get shared, yes I agree. But I don't believe the reason is because people don't care. Maybe the time just hasn't come up yet or even people feel Backstage isn't the place to get really into the code? I have to say I agree with the original point. Standing on the fringes and contributing a little from time to time I can say that there is not a code sharing atmosphere here. I wonder if that is due to the tone set by BBC which is about controlling media rather than opening it. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Well there you go then :) Good stuff! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: 01 November 2006 12:50 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts Ian you have shamed me. I wrote my myCommute prototype in June 2005 and at the bottom of the webpage for it, it said I'd release the source code when it was in a better state. Of course the reality was it never got in a better state, and I forgot to release the source code. So in a few minutes during my lunch hour, I have quickly bunged it in a tar file, whacked the GPL license preamble in it and written some frankly appallingly bad install instructions. I'm sure the world will not be set alight by my frankly terrible PHP, but it's the principle of the thing. I said I would, so here it is. Only 17 months late, but better late than never! myCommute is at http://www.bods.me.uk/stuff/backstage/mycommute/ And you can download the code here. http://www.bods.me.uk/stuff/backstage/mycommute/mycommute.tar.gz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester Sent: 01 November 2006 12:14 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts Not to be a party-pooper but one thing that characterised my initial impression of backstage was disappointment at the number of things people were doing that were NOT open source, especially from some of the more prolific authors here. I think there is certainly something very different about the backstage development community compared to other developer networks. Not a lot of code does get shared, yes I agree. But I don't believe the reason is because people don't care. Maybe the time just hasn't come up yet or even people feel Backstage isn't the place to get really into the code? Yet, I see these little widgets mash-ups go by, cool 'n all ... but no code, so who cares? A shame! (And soo last millennium). The widget competition comes at a very interesting point in there conception. People are sitting up and thinking about what's actually possible with widgets and where there path into the future goes. So last millennium I would certainly disagree. There's also nothing stopping people from sharing the code of the widgets. Ideally when we first wrote the competition, we were going to post up the entries straight away, so everyone could discuss and learn from each other. But with the prizes and contest element to it all, it didn't seem feasible. We've learned from that, and you will found out on Monday 6th what were planning next. I certainly feel the next thing will make people collaborate more and who knows what might happen. But on a side point. I'm not saying collaboration isn't happening! I've seen examples where someone will take some rough and barely ready data source and wrap it up in something much more understandable. Then someone will write a prototype off that. This may not be the model your after? But I think the game has changed, this is the modern eco-system of development. I'm really happy to discuss this more if people are happy to? Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Actually that's a really good point... I wonder if there's anything we can do to make that better? What if we could provide some sort of code repository / version control software for the backstage project that would help people share? M -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nic James Ferrier Sent: 01 November 2006 12:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think there is certainly something very different about the backstage development community compared to other developer networks. Not a lot of code does get shared, yes I agree. But I don't believe the reason is because people don't care. Maybe the time just hasn't come up yet or even people feel Backstage isn't the place to get really into the code? I have to say I agree with the original point. Standing on the fringes and contributing a little from time to time I can say that there is not a code sharing atmosphere here. I wonder if that is due to the tone set by BBC which is about controlling media rather than opening it. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] 2 hours till the deadline of the widget competition
Hi, I posted a comment to the widgets competition blog post a number of days ago, but the comment was never approved and I never heard any response. --- Yep we've been having problems with the blog comments, sorry. I always suggest the list over comments for now. We do moderate the comments and MT does send us emails to remind us, but we didn't receive anything from you. Basically, I was asking for clarification on the competition rules - whether a 'widget' should be something that lives on a desktop (as the examples given in the post suggest) or if it could be something wider, such as a browser extension or Greasemonkey script (as suggested by the Wikipedia article linked from the post). --- Honestly, we were thinking if someone did do a browser add-on or Greasemonkey script, we would have turned it down. Sorry. Specially a greasemonkey script. The browser add-on might have been a little more difficult to turn down. And this is the heart of the debate. My own feeling is that Greasemonkey is more like a filter for a page than anything else. Yes I'm aware greasemonkey can do everything a modern widget can and our definition of widgets gets stretched when talking about google gadgets and pageflakes. So we've had to draw a line somewhere. This is a shame, because I had a particular idea in mind. I didn't go ahead with it, because I was concerned it might not meet the criteria. --- There's nothing stopping you from submitting it as an idea or even a prototype. I'm sure everyone would be interested in what you were thinking anyway. Cheers, Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] 2 hours till the deadline of the widget competition
Thanks for your response, Ian. I'll post the widget if I do create it... I look forward to seeing the results of the competition. Regards, Premasagar. - Original Message - From: Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: RE: [backstage] 2 hours till the deadline of the widget competition Hi, I posted a comment to the widgets competition blog post a number of days ago, but the comment was never approved and I never heard any response. --- Yep we've been having problems with the blog comments, sorry. I always suggest the list over comments for now. We do moderate the comments and MT does send us emails to remind us, but we didn't receive anything from you. Basically, I was asking for clarification on the competition rules - whether a 'widget' should be something that lives on a desktop (as the examples given in the post suggest) or if it could be something wider, such as a browser extension or Greasemonkey script (as suggested by the Wikipedia article linked from the post). --- Honestly, we were thinking if someone did do a browser add-on or Greasemonkey script, we would have turned it down. Sorry. Specially a greasemonkey script. The browser add-on might have been a little more difficult to turn down. And this is the heart of the debate. My own feeling is that Greasemonkey is more like a filter for a page than anything else. Yes I'm aware greasemonkey can do everything a modern widget can and our definition of widgets gets stretched when talking about google gadgets and pageflakes. So we've had to draw a line somewhere. This is a shame, because I had a particular idea in mind. I didn't go ahead with it, because I was concerned it might not meet the criteria. --- There's nothing stopping you from submitting it as an idea or even a prototype. I'm sure everyone would be interested in what you were thinking anyway. Cheers, Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Like Google's free SVN hosting offering... http://code.google.com/hosting/ J -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Cashmore Sent: 01 November 2006 13:09 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts Actually that's a really good point... I wonder if there's anything we can do to make that better? What if we could provide some sort of code repository / version control software for the backstage project that would help people share? M -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nic James Ferrier Sent: 01 November 2006 12:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think there is certainly something very different about the backstage development community compared to other developer networks. Not a lot of code does get shared, yes I agree. But I don't believe the reason is because people don't care. Maybe the time just hasn't come up yet or even people feel Backstage isn't the place to get really into the code? I have to say I agree with the original point. Standing on the fringes and contributing a little from time to time I can say that there is not a code sharing atmosphere here. I wonder if that is due to the tone set by BBC which is about controlling media rather than opening it. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
On 11/1/06, Nic James Ferrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think there is certainly something very different about the backstage development community compared to other developer networks. Not a lot of code does get shared, yes I agree. But I don't believe the reason is because people don't care. Maybe the time just hasn't come up yet or even people feel Backstage isn't the place to get really into the code? I have to say I agree with the original point. Standing on the fringes and contributing a little from time to time I can say that there is not a code sharing atmosphere here. I wonder if that is due to the tone set by BBC which is about controlling media rather than opening it. Interesting point. We are in a position to lead by example. Certainly, by not releasing our code we're hardly in a position to criticise the Beeb on this point. Here's an implementation of the subject line tag cloud which other people are welcome to copy, mash-up, hack, use on their own mailing lists, etc. http://paulm.com/inchoate/2006/11/backstage_get_with_the_program.html (Ian: by not caring I meant in the sense of if someone produces a neat-o widget but doesn't release the code, I, as an audience member do not especially care; it's just a cute toy as far as I'm concerned. Next. When Leon Leo came along with MighTyV a lot of people cared because they could actually use it, fix it, add features, and add to the mix.) Paul (ex-BBC PIPS team hence the interest in scheduling :-)) -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Backstage London Christmas Bash
Hi Ian, Thanks for your reply and sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We would love to have LondonSEO associated with the Christmas event and more then happy to help the organisers in anyway possible. LondonSEO events usually have a sponsor who picks up the bar tab, although I'm not sure if I can find a sponsor large enough to cover a 300 person tab though. I'll certainely look into it though. Anything else, just ask. :o) Fancy doing a joint announcement on each of our sites about this? Cheers, Rob On 26/10/06, Mr I Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Kerry wrote: O, this looks geektastic! Thank you, we are certainly proud of what were doing. Question 1: Am I invited? Everyone is invited :) as long as you get your name on the sign up page (yet to be announced) Question 2: Do you all work for the beeb? My sister used to work there if that qualifies me? Its a BBC Backstage event, with our arms open to most of the communities in and around London. So think of it as a shared Christmas event for the developer/design/new media community in London. You don't need to work or be involved in the BBC to come along. I know some of the guys from Yahoo and Microsoft are coming along. Question 3: I'm used to unlimited free pints of Guinness at geek events now, after being pampered by the search engines. Any chance of free pints here? Ummm no - unless we get enough sponsors to pay for free Guinness. :) By the way, make sure you pop along to one of our LondonSEO (http://londonseo.org) meet-ups if you're interested in Search Engine Optimisation or drinking with fellow geeks. In fact maybe we should join you christmas geek alliance. Last month we peaked at 30 people attending though so don't want to crowd people. Well I'm still interested in having a couple more communities involved, so if your interested do drop me a email. But there's nothing stopping you and your community of seo geeks from just coming along on the 9th Dec. You just can't have a say in how the night is run and who will speak etc. :) Cheers Ian on holiday ;) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Very very very cool... and not just because my name is on there! :-) Ian's use of theword awesome however is a little suspect... especially when you see this http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattcashmore/282153124/ He's currently suggesting we somehow get his new scooter into the shirt design ;-) tinhat value="on" From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian ForresterSent: 01 November 2006 10:56To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts That is awesome :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario MentiSent: 01 November 2006 10:35To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts On 10/31/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea a lot!I can imagine we could run the mail archives through a tag cloud maker and generate pretty much everything we need. How cool would it be if peoples names came up? :) If you want to see what the current tag cloud may look like (based on the subject lines in the unofficial mail archive), see here: http://menti.net/?p=40Cheers,Mario.
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
On 11/1/06, Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's an implementation of the subject line tag cloud which otherpeople are welcome to copy, mash-up, hack, use on their own mailinglists, etc.
http://paulm.com/inchoate/2006/11/backstage_get_with_the_program.htmlWhat do you do when you want to open source, but there is no code? You create your own scripting language! So, in the open source spirit, here's how I created my tag cloud:
[code]maintab = webbrowser.opentab(http://www.tagcrowd.com);newtab = webbrowser.opentab(
http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/);subjects = newtab.copy(subjectlines);maintab.paste(editext[0], subjects);maintab.blacklist({re,mr,hi,hello});
result = maintab.button[Visualize!].press();tagcloud = result.copy(edittext[0]);myblog = webbrowser.opentab(http://menti.net);mynewpost = myblog.createnewpost
(bbc backstage tag cloud t-shirt, tagcloud);mynewpost.save();mynewpost.mailto(backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk);[/code]Cheers,Mario.
Re: [backstage] BBC Touch
Chris Riley wrote, reordered slightly: In particular I think its useful for highlighting issues the public care more about. For instance a couple of says ago whilst Pakistan was the headline, most of us were reading the climate change story. Are you sure Pakistan was the headline? The climate change story became a subheading just after midnight on the 29th, became the main headline around 07:50am, and stayed there, as far as I can tell, right through the 29th and 30th October, until 04:05 on the 31st October when the main headline became the Prince Charles/Pakistan story for around 15 minutes (data from my front page archive: http://www.bbc.co.uk/homearchive/ and my news archive). On the web page you'll see subjects they want us to read about vs. what we're actually reading about for the past 24 hours, and past 2 weeks. they want us to read? That's not the point of the editorial (by which I mean the ordering of stories on the front page) at all, in my view. I have BBC news in my RSS reader, so that gives me the latest news. I click on the ones I want to read, but that shouldn't affect in any way which ones the BBC decide are important. They hopefully weight stories by more than popularity, otherwise all the stories would be about celebrities and kittens? :-) What your site measures (presuming the popular feed goes on page views, which seems likely) is which stories have been clicked on, not read. I frequently click a headline if it sounds interesting, read the first paragraph, decide it isn't or I already know the story, and close the page. If lots of people are like that, then that makes that story a popular story even though it isn't at all. So what you're actually measuring is how good BBC headlines are at getting people to click through. Similarly, if a BBC post gets linked to from Slashdot or Boing Boing, it will almost certainly become a most popular link. But that doesn't mean it is most popular in terms of the what we're actually reading about, just that lots of people read those sites and click links, realise the first paragraph tells them all they need to know, and that's it. Most emailed would perhaps be a better XML feed to use than Most popular, as then at least people have gone out of their way to send the story to someone else. But that doesn't change my first point - the story that is most emailed will be the one about a man marrying a goat or somesuch, which I wouldn't think should be a top story anywhere, no more than the also in the news bit of the front page for humour value. Lastly, surely the headline stories on the front page are, quite possibly, new news. The stories that are most popular are going to be those that have been most widely distributed, by email, IM, RSS, whatever, and so will almost certainly be a few hours behind. So I wouldn't expect the headlines to match the most popular? I don't have any desire to highlight any hidden agendas the BBC's editorial staff might have (although I guess it can), but more from an interest in how in touch are the BBC with what the public actually reads and cares about compared to what they think we do. Why would the BBC want to be in touch with spammers? I say this because of the story some months back of the BBC's MSN charging story from 2001 suddenly becoming very popular - On Sunday it was the most-read business story - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4778046.stm - a complete irrelevancy from the headlines point of view. :) -- ATB, Matthew | http://www.dracos.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Mario rocks.I can't see a place for that scooter on the road, let alone on a t-shirt. sorry Ian. :-)RichE.On 1 Nov 2006, at 11:39, Matthew Cashmore wrote: Very very very cool... and not just because my name is on there! :-) Ian's use of the word awesome however is a little suspect... especially when you see this http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattcashmore/282153124/ He's currently suggesting we somehow get his new scooter into the shirt design ;-) tinhat value="on" From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ian ForresterSent: 01 November 2006 10:56To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts That is awesome :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mario MentiSent: 01 November 2006 10:35To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts On 10/31/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea a lot!I can imagine we could run the mail archives through a tag cloud maker and generate pretty much everything we need. How cool would it be if peoples names came up? :) If you want to see what the current tag cloud may look like (based on the subject lines in the unofficial mail archive), see here: http://menti.net/?p=40Cheers,Mario.
[backstage] Re: Sharing Code
Surely, it's more political or philosophical than merely sharing php code.. the fact is that after ten years or more there's still not a single successful web authoring application that's publishes accessible validated code and is used by the public. (in part which explains the rise of blogging) The reasons are well known, for example, experts are more easily tied into upgrades, developers attached to feature creep, etc Similarly much of web2.0 is server based which significantly reduces the possibilities for sharing or engaging the public in authoring. cheers Jonathan Chetwynd On 1 Nov 2006, at 12:13, Ian Forrester wrote: Not to be a party-pooper but one thing that characterised my initial impression of backstage was disappointment at the number of things people were doing that were NOT open source, especially from some of the more prolific authors here. I think there is certainly something very different about the backstage development community compared to other developer networks. Not a lot of code does get shared, yes I agree. But I don't believe the reason is because people don't care. Maybe the time just hasn't come up yet or even people feel Backstage isn't the place to get really into the code? Yet, I see these little widgets mash-ups go by, cool 'n all ... but no code, so who cares? A shame! (And soo last millennium). The widget competition comes at a very interesting point in there conception. People are sitting up and thinking about what's actually possible with widgets and where there path into the future goes. So last millennium I would certainly disagree. There's also nothing stopping people from sharing the code of the widgets. Ideally when we first wrote the competition, we were going to post up the entries straight away, so everyone could discuss and learn from each other. But with the prizes and contest element to it all, it didn't seem feasible. We've learned from that, and you will found out on Monday 6th what were planning next. I certainly feel the next thing will make people collaborate more and who knows what might happen. But on a side point. I'm not saying collaboration isn't happening! I've seen examples where someone will take some rough and barely ready data source and wrap it up in something much more understandable. Then someone will write a prototype off that. This may not be the model your after? But I think the game has changed, this is the modern eco-system of development. I'm really happy to discuss this more if people are happy to? Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 11/1/06, Nic James Ferrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Standing on the fringes and contributing a little from time to time I can say that there is not a code sharing atmosphere here. I wonder if that is due to the tone set by BBC which is about controlling media rather than opening it. Interesting point. We are in a position to lead by example. Certainly, by not releasing our code we're hardly in a position to criticise the Beeb on this point. To be clear, I was not criticising the backstage team particularly... by BBC I mean the whole organization. I think it *is* a problem that a public organization still regards the things it makes with public money as being somehow, not public property. Clearly, that constrains the backstage team and contributors. It just sends the wrong message. But the BBC's attitude must also be seen in the light of the bigger climate of fear in media companies (holywood, nashville, etc...) about their disappearing business models. So, I'm not sure that there's _much_ more that I could ask of the backstage team except to try and share code by default. Even posting techniques in mailing list messages is better than nothing. Alan Perlis talked about code as the best way of describing what a computer program does. He was right - it is our chief communication medium. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs
GeoRSS might be an even better format to work with, since it's can refer to each Wikipedia article in a well defined chunk (an RSS item or Atom entry)Placeopedia, a similar effort from mySociety, offers GeoRSS [http://www.placeopedia.com/data/]It's also should be noted that the copyright status of these geotagged pages is not clear. Most all of the Wikipedia geotagged pages (and all of Placeopedia)are derived works of Google Maps .. ie the location is derived from navigating through Google Maps data. Who owns the resulting geotags ..Google, their data providers, or the users? -Mikel- Original Message From: Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 10:33:52 AMSubject: RE: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs Wow that's a awesome find! Good stuff, but I would have thought the KML file would be easier to work on because its simply XML right? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason CartwrightSent: 31 October 2006 15:20To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] Wikipedia Latt/Longs http://www.webkuehn.de/hobbys/wikipedia/geokoordinaten/index_en.htm What a goldmine - all the latt/longs extracted from Wikipedia and compiled into a CSV. J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer -CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 57) 59487 Mobile: 07976500729 "Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here" - Ray Bradbury
[backstage] Weather conditions?
Right best make clear what I mean by weather conditions.
From a weather feed description for example from:
http://feeds.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/rss/5day/world/4376.xml
You get:
The forecast for Hartlepool, United Kingdom on Wednesday: sunny
intervals. Max Temp: 8°C (46°F), Min Temp: -2°C (28°F), Wind Direction:
NW, Wind Speed: 17mph, Visibility: good, Pressure: 1031mb, Humidity:
62%, UV risk: low, Pollution: N/A, Sunrise: 07:08GMT, Sunset: 16:32GMT
What I am calling a weather condition is the sunny intervals part.
Now I have used the countries opml file posted here, downloaded each
feed to find all the different conditions used and turn it into an xml
file..
What I came up with was...
conditions
condition text=sunny/
condition text=sunny intervals/
condition text=heavy showers/
condition text=light showers/
condition text=light rain/
condition text=thundery showers/
condition text=cloudy/
condition text=heavy rain/
condition text=hail showers/
condition text=light snow showers/
condition text=foggy/
condition text=light snow/
condition text=drizzle/
condition text=sleet showers/
condition text=sleet/
condition text=heavy snow showers/
condition text=heavy snow/
/conditions
The question isam I missing any? This is more a question to the
backstage team I suppose...
Oh and in the spirit of caring and sharing code below is the code that
makes the above output...its based on the countries.opml file that has
been shared out on here and used PHP5 dom and simplexml plus a simplexml
to array function I found kicking about on teh interwebs...it saves the
feeds for a while in your tmp dir...
Ta
John
---
?php
ini_set ( zlib.output_compression, 0);
ini_set ( output_handler, );
@ob_end_flush();
set_time_limit(0);
echo pre;
flush();
$xml = new DomDocument('1.0');
$xml-resolveExternals = true;
$xml-load('countries.opml');
$xmls=simplexml_import_dom($xml);
$opml=simplexml2ISOarray($xmls);
$countries = $opml[body][outline][outline];
foreach ($countries as $country){
foreach($country[outline] as $feed){
$xmlurl = $feed[@attributes][url];
$basename = basename($xmlurl);
$savefile = /tmp/.$basename;
if(file_exists($savefile)){
$maketime = filectime($savefile);
$nowtime = time();
$lesstime = $nowtime - $maketime;
}else{
$lesstime=19000;
}
if($lesstime 18000){
$xmlstr = file_get_contents($xmlurl);
$han = fopen($savefile,w);
fwrite($han,$xmlstr);
fclose($han);
}else{
$xmlstr = file_get_contents($savefile);
}
if($xmlstr){
@$xml = new DomDocument('1.0');
@$xml-resolveExternals = true;
@$xml-loadXML($xmlstr);
$array=array();
foreach($xml-getElementsBytagName('item') as $item){
$description =
$item-getElementsByTagName('description')-item(0)-firstChild-nodeValue;
preg_match(|(The forecast for (.*), (.*) on
.*): (.*)\. (.*)|,$description,$match);
$conditions[$match[4]] = 1;
}
echo $savefile.\n;
flush();
}
}
}
$conditions=array_keys($conditions);
//create xml doc
$doc = new DOMDocument(1.0);
$doc-formatOutput = true;
//create the weather element
$root = $doc-createElement('conditions');
$root = $doc-appendChild($root);
//create the weather_location element
if($conditions){
foreach ( $conditions as $condition )
{
//create the item element
$acondition = $doc-createElement(condition);
$acondition = $root-appendChild($acondition);
$acondition-setAttribute(text,$condition);
}
unset($conditions);
}
$han=fopen(conditions.xml,w);
fwrite($han,$doc-saveXML());
fclose($han);
function simplexml2ISOarray($xml,$attribsAsElements=0) {
if (get_class($xml) == 'SimpleXMLElement') {
$attributes = $xml-attributes();
foreach($attributes as $k=$v) {
if ($v) $a[$k] = (string) $v;
}
$x = $xml;
$xml = get_object_vars($xml);
}
if (is_array($xml)) {
if (count($xml) == 0) return (string) $x; // for CDATA
foreach($xml as $key=$value) {
$r[$key] =
simplexml2ISOarray($value,$attribsAsElements);
if (!is_array($r[$key])) $r[$key] =
utf8_decode($r[$key]);
}
if (isset($a)) {
if($attribsAsElements) {
RE: [backstage] Re: Sharing Code
the fact is that after ten years or more there's still not a single successful web authoring application that's publishes accessible validated code I'm not sure that this is fault of the application - all your major desktop apps, as well as most (mainly open source) CMSes will happily produce very nice code for you. However users tend to modify the templates (as any decent CMS/CPS/whatever uses), and their focus is on the visual appearance rather than usable it is in a screenreader. Similarly much of web2.0 is server based which significantly reduces the possibilities for sharing or engaging the public in authoring. I disagree. Web 2.0, and whatever people's interpretations of this flimsy collection of technologies and concepts is, in my view invariably shows a shift to client-side code. At least it is at the moment. This takes the form of javascript for the use of XMLHTTPRequest or perhaps the wide variety of client software for RSS reading. Any software on the server-side [I'm gritting my teeth saying this next 5 words] in a web 2.0 world is just allowing the data to be opened up and standardised through an API. All in my humble opinion, of course, and not the views of the BBC or anything like that :-) J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer - CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 57) 59487 Mobile: 07976500729 Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here - Ray Bradbury - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Re: Sharing Code
Jason, which web2.0 apis are you proposing that produce accessible or even validating code? cheers Jonathan Chetwynd On 1 Nov 2006, at 16:29, Jason Cartwright wrote: the fact is that after ten years or more there's still not a single successful web authoring application that's publishes accessible validated code I'm not sure that this is fault of the application - all your major desktop apps, as well as most (mainly open source) CMSes will happily produce very nice code for you. However users tend to modify the templates (as any decent CMS/CPS/whatever uses), and their focus is on the visual appearance rather than usable it is in a screenreader. Similarly much of web2.0 is server based which significantly reduces the possibilities for sharing or engaging the public in authoring. I disagree. Web 2.0, and whatever people's interpretations of this flimsy collection of technologies and concepts is, in my view invariably shows a shift to client-side code. At least it is at the moment. This takes the form of javascript for the use of XMLHTTPRequest or perhaps the wide variety of client software for RSS reading. Any software on the server-side [I'm gritting my teeth saying this next 5 words] in a web 2.0 world is just allowing the data to be opened up and standardised through an API. All in my humble opinion, of course, and not the views of the BBC or anything like that :-) J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer - CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 57) 59487 Mobile: 07976500729 Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here - Ray Bradbury - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] PHP Code for weather conditions
Right heres a little snippet of code to play with the description from the weather feeds. $description = The forecast for Hartlepool, United Kingdom on Wednesday: sunny intervals. Max Temp: 8°C (46°F), Min Temp: -2°C (28°F), Wind Direction: NW, Wind Speed: 17mph, Visibility: good, Pressure: 1031mb, Humidity: 62%, UV risk: low, Pollution: N/A, Sunrise: 07:08GMT, Sunset: 16:32GMT; preg_match(|(The forecast for (.*), (.*) on .*): (.*)\. (.*)|,$description,$match); preg_match_all(| (.*): (.*),|U,$match[5].,,$matches,PREG_SET_ORDER); - If you print_r out $match and $matches you should see how useful this would be. It works with the current format of the description the Beeb uses. Cheers John - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Touch
Hi Matthew,Thanks for your feedback. On the Pakistan thing, I'm not sure, it was just when I glanced at it when writing the mail that stuck in my mind. So you're probably right :o)On your second point about the editorial, completely agree that they shouldn't be ordering stories by popularity (I think I mention in the about page that they shouldn't be striving for 100% or something), but I do still think it is fair to say stories they want us to read about, a story is more likely to be read if the editor has chosen to make it a headline on the news homepage wouldn't you say? As for the popular feed and the data it provides being accumulated with a certain degree of lag between new news and what we've been reading over lunch, yeah, of course you're always going to get that issue, and I completely understand where you're coming from. Similarly saying that its the BBC's ability to write a good headline that's being measured is a fair comment, but I don't believe it provides an unfair popular bias to a story. In part that's why I introduced the automatic subject extraction, to try and help get through that issue and delve into the actual subjects we're choosing to click through (and so show some interest in) vs. those we don't. That way even if you don't read the full story, clicking through registers your interest in the subject. You'll never be able to get away from the fact the journalists are going to write captivating headlines, but if they are consistently doing that, with the main subject in the headline, I'm happy with that. Ultimately its an experiment with the data, and if someone can make use of the data in a new way thanks to my efforts, I'm happy with that.Cheers,ChrisOn 11/1/06, Matthew Somerville [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris Riley wrote, reordered slightly: In particular I think its useful for highlighting issues the public care more about. For instance a couple of says ago whilst Pakistan was the headline, most of us were reading the climate change story. Are you sure Pakistan was the headline? The climate change story became asubheading just after midnight on the 29th, became the main headline around07:50am, and stayed there, as far as I can tell, right through the 29th and 30th October, until 04:05 on the 31st October when the main headline becamethe Prince Charles/Pakistan story for around 15 minutes (data from my frontpage archive: http://www.bbc.co.uk/homearchive/ and my news archive). On the web page you'll see subjects they want us to read about vs. what we're actually reading about for the past 24 hours, and past 2 weeks.they want us to read? That's not the point of the editorial (by which I mean the ordering of stories on the front page) at all, in my view. I haveBBC news in my RSS reader, so that gives me the latest news. I click on theones I want to read, but that shouldn't affect in any way which ones the BBC decide are important. They hopefully weight stories by more than popularity,otherwise all the stories would be about celebrities and kittens? :-)What your site measures (presuming the popular feed goes on page views, which seems likely) is which stories have been clicked on, not read. Ifrequently click a headline if it sounds interesting, read the firstparagraph, decide it isn't or I already know the story, and close the page. If lots of people are like that, then that makes that story a popular storyeven though it isn't at all. So what you're actually measuring is how goodBBC headlines are at getting people to click through. Similarly, if a BBC post gets linked to from Slashdot or Boing Boing, itwill almost certainly become a most popular link. But that doesn't mean itis most popular in terms of the what we're actually reading about, just that lots of people read those sites and click links, realise the firstparagraph tells them all they need to know, and that's it.Most emailed would perhaps be a better XML feed to use than Most popular, as then at least people have gone out of their way to send the story to someoneelse. But that doesn't change my first point - the story that is mostemailed will be the one about a man marrying a goat or somesuch, which I wouldn't think should be a top story anywhere, no more than the also inthe news bit of the front page for humour value.Lastly, surely the headline stories on the front page are, quite possibly, new news. The stories that are most popular are going to be those that havebeen most widely distributed, by email, IM, RSS, whatever, and so willalmost certainly be a few hours behind. So I wouldn't expect the headlines to match the most popular? I don't have any desire to highlight any hidden agendas the BBC's editorial staff might have (although I guess it can), but more from an interest in how in touch are the BBC with what the public actually reads and cares about compared to what they think we do.Why would the BBC want to be in touch with spammers? I say this because ofthe story some months back of the BBC's MSN charging
Re: [backstage] Re: Sharing Code
Jason, [Apologies if this is duplicated, but GMail is not indicating clearly whether this is making it to the list or not. :( ] I disagree. Web 2.0, and whatever people's interpretations of this flimsy collection of technologies and concepts is, in my view invariably shows a shift to client-side code. At least it is at the moment. This takes the form of javascript for the use of XMLHTTPRequest or perhaps the wide variety of client software for RSS reading. Any software on the server-side [I'm gritting my teeth saying this next 5 words] in a web 2.0 world is just allowing the data to be opened up and standardised through an API. Except the fact that you can't do cross-domain posting seriously limits the ability to do client-side processing independently of a server, and having to introduce new servers for each new 'mashups' simply doesn't scale [1]. XForms goes some ways towards solving this, but obviously the big problem is within browsers. It's a tricky one! Regards, Mark [1] http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2006/01/web-20-copernicus-and-spartacus-moving.html -- Mark Birbeck CEO x-port.net Ltd. e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232 w: http://www.formsPlayer.com/ b: http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/ Download our XForms processor from http://www.formsPlayer.com/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] PHP Code for weather conditions
John Wards wrote: preg_match(|(The forecast for (.*), (.*) on .*): (.*)\. (.*)|,$description,$match); I'd make the .*s .*?s (or add a U), just in case it ever had a new entry added along the lines of Last checked by: Mr. Jones preg_match_all(| (.*): (.*),|U,$match[5].,,$matches,PREG_SET_ORDER); This doesn't catch Sunset, due to you forcing that comma. Try: '| (.*): (.*)(,|\.|$)|U' (I can't remember if I put the full stop in there just in case, or if I had an actual example using it, sorry.) -- ATB, Matthew | http://www.dracos.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Weather conditions?
Hi John, The complete list of weather conditions that appear on the BBC Weather site is as follows: [desc] 'clear' 'sunny' 'partly cloudy' 'sunny intervals' 'dust storm' 'misty' 'foggy' 'cloudy' 'light showers' 'drizzle' 'light rain' 'heavy showers' 'heavy rain' 'sleet showers' 'sleet' 'hail showers' 'hail' 'light snow showers' 'light snow' 'heavy snow showers' 'heavy snow' 'thundery showers' 'thunderstorm' 'tropical storm' [/desc] Best, Kass Kathryn Schmitt Senior Developer BBC Weather Centre 2026 Television Centre T: 020 82259448 M: 0771 7582482 www.bbc.co.uk/weather www.bbc.co.uk/climate -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Wards Sent: 01 November 2006 16:27 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Weather conditions? The question isam I missing any? This is more a question to the backstage team I suppose... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] checks balances: validating the BBC
checks balances: validating the BBC http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://news.bbc.co.uk 97 errors which is about par makes it difficult to consider or discuss the accessibility of BBC web1.0 product. suffice it to say they have a process all there own, which awaits an independent accessibility audit report, afaik. there have been some published reports that discuss small parts of the rather large whole It will require some hard talking to ensure that web2.0 product is an improvement in accessibility. The media player wasn't smil compliant last time they asked for reviews, whereas realplayer makes an attempt... cheers Jonathan Chetwynd - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] PHP Code for weather conditions
Quoting Matthew Somerville [EMAIL PROTECTED]: preg_match_all(| (.*): (.*),|U,$match[5].,,$matches,PREG_SET_ORDER); This doesn't catch Sunset, due to you forcing that comma. Try: '| (.*): (.*)(,|\.|$)|U' (I can't remember if I put the full stop in there just in case, or if I had an actual example using it, sorry.) Ah it does though as I add a , to the end of the subject which catches the sunset. Cheers John - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Touch
personally, I think it's a fabulous experiment in data. from a news angle? vast amounts of news consumption is people who don't click a link or read a single story - they go to the homepage to check if anything 'important' has happened (usually not). That's editorship, which is different from journalism. But then again, that caveat only really applies to the homepage, so I think Chris' ideas could be more appropriate to a particular index (business, politics etc) where (I'd guess...) far fewer users adopt this nothing big happened - great, I can bugger off qick scanning behaviour. one tip: you can get far better term extraction if you run two or more term extractors (I like Yahoo!'s - and it's an API) over the same story copy and then only use those terms with two or more matches. You get far less noise for not much more effort (Chris Sizemore's idea... not mine...) On 01/11/06, Chris Riley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Matthew, Thanks for your feedback. On the Pakistan thing, I'm not sure, it was just when I glanced at it when writing the mail that stuck in my mind. So you're probably right :o) On your second point about the editorial, completely agree that they shouldn't be ordering stories by popularity (I think I mention in the about page that they shouldn't be striving for 100% or something), but I do still think it is fair to say stories they want us to read about, a story is more likely to be read if the editor has chosen to make it a headline on the news homepage wouldn't you say? As for the popular feed and the data it provides being accumulated with a certain degree of lag between new news and what we've been reading over lunch, yeah, of course you're always going to get that issue, and I completely understand where you're coming from. Similarly saying that its the BBC's ability to write a good headline that's being measured is a fair comment, but I don't believe it provides an unfair popular bias to a story. In part that's why I introduced the automatic subject extraction, to try and help get through that issue and delve into the actual subjects we're choosing to click through (and so show some interest in) vs. those we don't. That way even if you don't read the full story, clicking through registers your interest in the subject. You'll never be able to get away from the fact the journalists are going to write captivating headlines, but if they are consistently doing that, with the main subject in the headline, I'm happy with that. Ultimately its an experiment with the data, and if someone can make use of the data in a new way thanks to my efforts, I'm happy with that. Cheers, Chris On 11/1/06, Matthew Somerville [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris Riley wrote, reordered slightly: In particular I think its useful for highlighting issues the public care more about. For instance a couple of says ago whilst Pakistan was the headline, most of us were reading the climate change story. Are you sure Pakistan was the headline? The climate change story became a subheading just after midnight on the 29th, became the main headline around 07:50am, and stayed there, as far as I can tell, right through the 29th and 30th October, until 04:05 on the 31st October when the main headline became the Prince Charles/Pakistan story for around 15 minutes (data from my front page archive: http://www.bbc.co.uk/homearchive/ and my news archive). On the web page you'll see subjects they want us to read about vs. what we're actually reading about for the past 24 hours, and past 2 weeks. they want us to read? That's not the point of the editorial (by which I mean the ordering of stories on the front page) at all, in my view. I have BBC news in my RSS reader, so that gives me the latest news. I click on the ones I want to read, but that shouldn't affect in any way which ones the BBC decide are important. They hopefully weight stories by more than popularity, otherwise all the stories would be about celebrities and kittens? :-) What your site measures (presuming the popular feed goes on page views, which seems likely) is which stories have been clicked on, not read. I frequently click a headline if it sounds interesting, read the first paragraph, decide it isn't or I already know the story, and close the page. If lots of people are like that, then that makes that story a popular story even though it isn't at all. So what you're actually measuring is how good BBC headlines are at getting people to click through. Similarly, if a BBC post gets linked to from Slashdot or Boing Boing, it will almost certainly become a most popular link. But that doesn't mean it is most popular in terms of the what we're actually reading about, just that lots of people read those sites and click links, realise the first paragraph tells them all they need to know, and that's it. Most emailed would perhaps be a better XML feed to use than Most popular, as then at least people have gone out of
Re: [backstage] PHP Code for weather conditions
John Wards wrote: Ah it does though as I add a , to the end of the subject which catches the sunset. Duh, of course, sorry. Hopefully my other suggestion still stands. :) -- ATB, Matthew | http://www.dracos.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] PHP Code for weather conditions
On 1 Nov 2006, at 20:35, Laurence Samuels wrote: This sharing of code is all well and good. I support it. But sending codes along on this email address may obscure some other messages that are not about code. Isnt it possible to have a central place where codes could be put and a forum started there where people can discuss about the arcana of the code texts? An official Backstage wiki would be perfect, I know there was discussions of such last year when Ben was around but not sure how far that got - there was: http://www.backstagewiki.co.uk/ but doesn't appear to resolve anywhere now. I think a simple blog(unofficial unless the Backstage team would be able to provide something) would suit your above suggestion with open registration for authors to post their code - I'm happy to provide such resource if it would be helpful? Andrew - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Nic James Ferrier wrote: I don't do the second part (generating the tag cloud) but there are lots of options: - do it in xslt: http://cse-mjmcl.cse.bris.ac.uk/blog/2006/08/08/1155058345613.html - spit out to some unix pipeline that gens tagclouds (perl?) - spit out to curl and have curl call tagcloud I had a very quick look around the XSL and I'm sure I can easily build on this using cocoon's xml pipelines... ...managed this in 5mins flat - http://www.cubicgarden.com/cocoon/tagcloud/feed/bbcnews | http://www.cubicgarden.com/cocoon/tagcloud/feed/test I'm now considering outputting svg, so I get a nice vector tagcloud, instead of playing with css. Ian - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
