Re: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
Or this could all simply indicate that the W3C is being very sensible and not trying to push standards beyond what people are actually doing or want to do. Perhaps to some extent. But then you end up in a situation such as the MSIE / Netscape browser war where multiple features are introduced, with each party wanting their own extensions included into the spec. Which ever is most popular wins, but leaves a number of developers / users out in the cold. Until 802.11x came along, very few people used wireless computer networks, similarly with GSM for mobile phones. Perhaps the W3C should trail blaze in the same manner. Indeed html and xml were 'new' (if tidied up sgml) and presented many new opportunities. The example you give of Flash is an interesting one... but SVG has also come a long way and is a similarly complex technology. Indeed it has. And I've used SVG for a few experiments, to get a feel for it. The spec looks good and very powerful. Now if only someone would implement it. Opera, Safari and Firefox are all developing their SVG support, however it is slow going. Opera appears to be furthest along, with Firefox 2 supporting a sub-set of the spec and Safari having limited support in nightly builds. One of the most powerful features of SVG imho is the ability to mix xml namespaces using the foreignObject in SVG. Which Safari supports, but does little else, Opera doesn't support and Mozilla (1.8? Firefox 3) will / does in nightlys. This is why I suggested that perhaps the W3C should look at developing a standards based browser, to push other browser developers to support new standards less than five years after they are released... Don't get me wrong - I have great respect for the W3C, and to some extent their task is impossible. But it does need a shake up, because it's not quite working at the moment. A - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Re: (freeing) content is king
At 04:02 + 30/11/06, Frank Wales wrote: On 11/29/2006 04:22 PM, Matthew Cashmore wrote: Only the BBC would be having a conversation about it's Chairman having to code Perl to get the job... Over at ITV they're talking Ruby, Ruby? At ITV? What? [checks immediate surroundings for signs of severe reality distortion] If the BBC required senior management to possess practical perl prowess, ITV would surely demand rock'n'roll, drag'n'plop PowerPoint skilz, so they can re-spiffify the sales demo of their attention-harvesting plans before Big Ad notices just how ensweatened ITV's brow has become. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sink or swim. ITV has falling advertising revenues, due to this new fangled Internet thingy, which I hear is all the rage. Along hundred of available broadcast TV channels. Compare and contrast the annual revenue stream for the BBC or ITV with the value (in cash or stock) of YouTube? Reality? Sure - bucket loads... Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Tag clouds and t-shirts.
How about this for a t-shirt? http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/rhn/media/iot_cloud_rhn.gif Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Tag clouds and t-shirts.
I can reveal the final designs for the Backstage T-shirts if you like or I can make you all wait with baited breath till the Christmas Party or they start appearing all over Flickr on Sunday morning... *smile* Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gordon Joly Sent: 30 November 2006 09:46 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Tag clouds and t-shirts. How about this for a t-shirt? http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/rhn/media/iot_cloud_rhn.gif Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So the questions is what could the BBC Backstage be doing to help the W3C? Besides recommending good practice and standards? Get the BBC to use W3C standards more? I'd say that was the biggest thing. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
From looking at their web-site, perhaps Backstage could show them the way to a better designer. On the front page it mentions W3C over 40 times.. I fell of my seat before I got to the About page, but I was smiling broadly as I got up off the floor. Freakonomics can definitely be a recommendation for them if they agree with Overton. For sure they could do more to include, involve, and promote the positive direction. Beginning with the language they use. Regards Richard On 30 Nov 2006, at 11:39, Ian Forrester wrote: So the questions is what could the BBC Backstage be doing to help the W3C? Besides recommending good practice and standards? Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan Jardine Sent: 30 November 2006 09:12 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window Or this could all simply indicate that the W3C is being very sensible and not trying to push standards beyond what people are actually doing or want to do. Perhaps to some extent. But then you end up in a situation such as the MSIE / Netscape browser war where multiple features are introduced, with each party wanting their own extensions included into the spec. Which ever is most popular wins, but leaves a number of developers / users out in the cold. Until 802.11x came along, very few people used wireless computer networks, similarly with GSM for mobile phones. Perhaps the W3C should trail blaze in the same manner. Indeed html and xml were 'new' (if tidied up sgml) and presented many new opportunities. The example you give of Flash is an interesting one... but SVG has also come a long way and is a similarly complex technology. Indeed it has. And I've used SVG for a few experiments, to get a feel for it. The spec looks good and very powerful. Now if only someone would implement it. Opera, Safari and Firefox are all developing their SVG support, however it is slow going. Opera appears to be furthest along, with Firefox 2 supporting a sub-set of the spec and Safari having limited support in nightly builds. One of the most powerful features of SVG imho is the ability to mix xml namespaces using the foreignObject in SVG. Which Safari supports, but does little else, Opera doesn't support and Mozilla (1.8? Firefox 3) will / does in nightlys. This is why I suggested that perhaps the W3C should look at developing a standards based browser, to push other browser developers to support new standards less than five years after they are released... Don't get me wrong - I have great respect for the W3C, and to some extent their task is impossible. But it does need a shake up, because it's not quite working at the moment. A - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
Ian Forrester: So the questions is what could the BBC Backstage be doing to help the W3C? Besides recommending good practice and standards? The BBC could clean-up its HTML output (at the very least that messy toolbar that gives my IA's such headaches), and enforce (not request) accessibility. With such a large audience, I think those changes could have a very positive knock-on effect. But I also feel it's a matter of principle: I expect to see the BBC's very high standards and quality measures applied to the source code of its websites in a way that it is not. Must say that I've noticed these changes are being implemented, and it does seem that BBC internet services are (going to be) much more central to the organisation that they have been in the past, so I hope to see W3C standards promoted even more highly. Whilst tiny W3C Valid XHTML badges generally annoy me, but I think the BBC is the perfect place to display them. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Video Search - Wall of Videos
I've been using blinks 'wall of video' service for some time now to display specific sets of videos on various web sites. They provide the option to embedd flash based code into your html web pages Take a look http://blinkx.com/wall?query=nhs I had assumed that this kind of option - embedding of code would become available The video search, early days I know, does not appear to work too well on the BBC site, when I tried to find this video:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/videonation/videos/public_speaking.shtml by searching for 'public speaking' it did not come out A wall of public speaking videos on the newcastle public speakers web site http://www.newcastle-speakers.org.uk would be great, I guess I'll just have to settle for http://blinkx.com/wall?query=toastmasters
RE: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
I disagree, its all about the audience - W3C is a resource listing technical specifications of complex standards going back well over 10 years. I'd imagine its audience is highly technical and couldn't really give a damn about the design or fluff text. If you want to learn HTML or any of the other standards specified then you should buy a book like HTML Goodies by Joe Burns (like I did!), but if you want the definitive, specified standard then you should go to the no-nonsense w3.org site. J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer - CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 22) 59487 Mobile: 07976500729 Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here - Ray Bradbury -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard P Edwards Sent: 30 November 2006 14:44 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window From looking at their web-site, perhaps Backstage could show them the way to a better designer. On the front page it mentions W3C over 40 times.. I fell of my seat before I got to the About page, but I was smiling broadly as I got up off the floor. Freakonomics can definitely be a recommendation for them if they agree with Overton. For sure they could do more to include, involve, and promote the positive direction. Beginning with the language they use. Regards Richard - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
Whilst tiny W3C Valid XHTML badges generally annoy me, but I think the BBC is the perfect place to display them. This is where some standards advocates over do it for me. 99.999%* of visitors to the BBC homepage (or pretty much any other mainstream website) don't care how its made - they just care that it works. Just like you don't care what printing process was used on your newspaper or what codec was used to deliver your Freeview picture. Techies like us naturally think about how technology is delivered and what standard is used, because it is what we do. Users on the other hand don't care if their news feed is RSS or Atom, a page has a CSS or table layout, or an image is a GIF or JPG - they just want it consume it reliably. Having to, or wanting to explain how something is achieved to an end users is, to me, a sign of the technology's infancy - and is something we need to overcome. Best recent example of this - Flash video - it just works and everyone loves it. /rant :-D J * Unscientific number of 9s added, but you get the point ;-) Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer - CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 22) 59487 Mobile: 07976500729 Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here - Ray Bradbury - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
Jason Cartwright: Lee Goddard: Whilst tiny W3C Valid XHTML badges generally annoy me, but I think the BBC is the perfect place to display them. ... Having to, or wanting to explain how something is achieved to an end users is, to me, a sign of the technology's infancy - and is something we need to overcome. Best recent example of this - Flash video - it just works and everyone loves it. /rant :-D :) I wasn't thinking of the non-technies, but rather sticking the badge in the footer. A tiny little badge, You'd hardly notice it. Just feel that the BBC should be representing standards on all levels: whilst these days most listeners may not notice a split infinitive, one still expects split infinitives to be caught before reaching the airwaves Failing that, just sorting out the messy HTML (Barley) would be ... so very, very nice! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
:) I wasn't thinking of the non-technies, but rather sticking the badge in the footer. A tiny little badge, You'd hardly notice it. Just feel that the BBC should be representing standards on all levels: whilst these days most listeners may not notice a split infinitive, one still expects split infinitives to be caught before reaching the airwaves Careful now. There is a pretty large school of thought that says there is no problem with split infinitives in English. Complaining about split infinitives is kind of like saying guess what happened to Mike and I. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] BBC News video and Google custom search engines
Hi, The post about walls of video search made me think about my own attempts to search BBC News video with a Google custom search engine. Video searching is something that I've been interested in for some time and when Google started their custom search engine project www.google.com/coop/cse I put together a test CSE, My Name Is Video www.mynameisvideo.com that points at 70 different sites, including the BBC news URL news.bbc.co.uk (NB The CSE does not give video thumbnails as results, as Google Video does, because this functionality is not yet available in CSEs.) The challenge in indexing BBC news video content as compared with video on many other sites is that the video seems hard to find. Whereas other sites typically group video like this news.sky.com/skynews/video BBC news apparently doesn't, so the best a CSE can do to cope is to search the BBC news URL with a wildcard like this: news.bbc.co.uk/*video* However, this work-around hardly works. If you search for an obvious keyword (Iraq, Bush, Blair) and click on the News link to select only the news sites, it easily obtains results from most of the other sites, but not the BBC news URL. If there's one thing that the BBC could do to make third-party video searching easier to do, it could well be creating some accessible video URLs. Or have I missed them somewhere? Cheers, Colin If anyone's interested in what can be done with Google CSEs generally, see also these: Live Net Music - searching for live music from webcasters and radio stations (BBC radio is well represented!) www.livenetmusic.com Mad For Toys - searching UK online toy shops www.madfortoys.com At 15:17 30/11/2006, you wrote: I've been using blinks 'wall of video' service for some time now to display specific sets of videos on various web sites. They provide the option to embedd flash based code into your html web pages Take a look http://blinkx.com/wall?query=nhs I had assumed that this kind of option - embedding of code would become available The video search, early days I know, does not appear to work too well on the BBC site, when I tried to find this video:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/videonation/videos/public_speaking.shtml by searching for 'public speaking' it did not come out A wall of public speaking videos on the newcastle public speakers web site http://www.newcastle-speakers.org.uk would be great, I guess I'll just have to settle for http://blinkx.com/wall?query=toastmasters - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
On 30/11/06, Deirdre Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :) I wasn't thinking of the non-technies, but rather sticking the badge in the footer. A tiny little badge, You'd hardly notice it. Just feel that the BBC should be representing standards on all levels: whilst these days most listeners may not notice a split infinitive, one still expects split infinitives to be caught before reaching the airwaves Careful now. There is a pretty large school of thought that says there is no problem with split infinitives in English. Complaining about split infinitives is kind of like saying guess what happened to Mike and I. I tend to agree. So what did happen to you and Mike then? -- Andy Roberts http://distributedresearch.net/blog/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Second Life Event - London 13th Dec
A friend sent me this... Second life are running a workshop in London on the 13th of December This three hour workshop will help you understand the potential and value of Second Life as an interactive media platform, where you can construct buildings, create clothing, host events, stream media, and create highly interactive and compelling environments. This workshop will help you identify and position the value of Second Life to your clients -- before they come to you asking about Second Life. http://secondlife.com/landing/sldevu/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] W3C and the Overton window
At 18:51 + 30/11/06, Andy Roberts wrote: On 30/11/06, Deirdre Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :) I wasn't thinking of the non-technies, but rather sticking the badge in the footer. A tiny little badge, You'd hardly notice it. Just feel that the BBC should be representing standards on all levels: whilst these days most listeners may not notice a split infinitive, one still expects split infinitives to be caught before reaching the airwaves Careful now. There is a pretty large school of thought that says there is no problem with split infinitives in English. Complaining about split infinitives is kind of like saying guess what happened to Mike and I. I tend to agree. So what did happen to you and Mike then? Mike and I went out. Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Second Life Event - London 13th Dec
Fyi, this event is now full (but i think you may still be able to get on the waiting list). m. On 11/30/06, Mr I Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend sent me this... Second life are running a workshop in London on the 13th of December This three hour workshop will help you understand the potential and value of Second Life as an interactive media platform, where you can construct buildings, create clothing, host events, stream media, and create highly interactive and compelling environments. This workshop will help you identify and position the value of Second Life to your clients -- before they come to you asking about Second Life. http://secondlife.com/landing/sldevu/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
