Re: [backstage] Adding Subtitles/transcripts to /programmes pages

2008-06-04 Thread Tom Jacobs
Sorry to bring this topic back up but i would really like to hear from
some of the people in the BBC about it.

Having the scripts of each show, either in pain text or other format,
on the /programmes would be a great resource. it would allow people to
search and find information/section of BBC content, which would
attract users to the BBC, being a valuable index into the contents.

This information, I would of expected to be, already be available from
the subtitles that either BBC Subtitles or Red Bee (do they do BBC
stuff as well as commercial stations?) so it shouldn't be a great
effort to make this available.

On a slightly selfish note, it would be great as I could use these on
iplayer streams that don't have subtitles on my xmbc. I can easily see
the xbmc-iplayer script being modified to be able to prefetch the
programmes subtitles and play them with the stream.

Would making this information publically available be a lot of effect?
Am I being to hopeful?

Many thanks

Tom

2008/4/14 Steve Jolly [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Tom Jacobs wrote:

 i think it would be really useful if the BBC made available the
 subtitles for their TV shows via the /programmes pages (or any other
 accessible, searchable API).

 Yes, it would be nice.

 You can get access to them via a DVB card in your PC, of course, but because
 they're broadcast as pre-rendered bitmaps, you'd have to OCR them before you
 could do anything useful with them.  A few people have gone down this road -
 some friends and I gave a talk and a demo on the subject back at Open Tech
 2005.

 http://www.ukuug.org/events/opentech2005/schedule/stephen_jolly.pdf

 S

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RE: [backstage] Film Reviews

2008-06-04 Thread Kevin Hinde
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Cridland
   Sent: 03 June 2008 19:00
   To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
   Subject: Re: [backstage] Film Reviews


   I have forwarded this good idea on. 

   I've also commented that associated RSS feeds should return a
404 for sites we no longer maintain. 

410 Gone would be more informative?

--
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Head of Delivery Assurance, Journalism
BBC Future Media  Technology
BC3 C1, Broadcast Centre
t: 020 800 84725 (02 84725)
m: 0771 501 2424 (072 84725)
aim:kwdhinde


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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Brian Butterworth
Generally a great idea.

But why on earth is this being done this way?

The Astons on the channel carry the information anyway, and we know that
this can be fed into another computer system, as the MHEG5 version of BBC
Parliament.

I can't be that hard for BBC Parliament to provide the feed of information
that is used to generate the Astons (and the former MHEG5 service) as a live
text file (or something).



2008/6/3 Etienne Pollard [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hello,

 You might be interested to learn about a new project that has just
 been launched by TheyWorkForYou.com - an online video archive of the
 House of Commons, with video clips posted in Flash video format
 alongside the text of speeches from Hansard.  You can view them on the
 website, or you can embed clips of the individual speeches on your
 blog or personal website by copying and pasting a bit of HTML that is
 listed below each clip on theyworkforyou.com.  See the blog posting at

 http://www.mysociety.org/2008/06/01/video-recordings-of-the-house-of-commons-on-theyworkforyoucom/
 for the full announcement.

 The key thing now is that we need your help to match up ~28,000
 speeches with the video footage (we've already got about 4,300 done).
 We've built a really simple, hyper-addictive website for people to
 use, complete with league tables and prizes (the rare and coveted
 mySociety hoodies).  You can find it right now at
 http://www.theyworkforyou.com/video/ - if you want to appear on the
 league table then take 30 seconds and register a username.  It's crowd
 sourcing applied to video timestamping - using our simple and
 remarkably addictive online game (with league tables, and did I
 mention the prizes?).

 Matching up individual speeches to video cuepoints is actually done in
 two stages - firstly, the CaptionerBot makes an approximate match for
 some of the speeches in Hansard using the raw BBC captions, and then
 we ask the general public to improve on the work of CaptionerBot using
 our simple and addictive online game (league table, prizes, etc).

 The video is taken from BBC Parliament, chopped up and transcoded into
 Flash video format (generic Flash 6, iirc), and served up to the
 general public using lighttpd and mod_flv_streaming.  This lets us
 give you direct access to any point in the video file just by
 specifying a parameter in the URL that indicates seconds elapsed since
 the start of the file.  The backend processing system uses lots of
 open source software to download and process live footage of the House
 of Commons from BBC Parliament (ffmpeg, mplayer, mencoder, yamdi, and
 quite a lot of perl), and the BBC web api to get the schedule
 information it needs to extract the live coverage.

 Now, please help us out by timestamping some video!
 http://www.theyworkforyou.com/video/ is the place to be...

 All the best,

 Etienne
 --
 Etienne Pollard
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [backstage] Radio 4 on Realplayer

2008-06-04 Thread Brian Butterworth
James,

Thanks for the information.  I'm always interested to hear about how the
systems work.

I'm particularly pleased to hear that the encoding will happen from the full
bitrate sources in the future.  Aside from not having any service drop-outs
and improved monitoring it can only hope that the sound quality will be
notably better.

Obviously I'm hoping that everything that's on the iPlayer Radio will come
as MP3s and the existing podcasts will be better quality (I would personally
prefer a VBR stereo In Our Time than the current mono one).

It's probably way, way too late to ask for this, but how about having
pre-compression (audio compression that is) versions of BBC Radio 3 and
1Xtra as, at least, an option.  I can listen to my classical and drum n bass
at home with their piano to forte range, would be great to have the same
range from BBC radio.  I understand why DAB and FM need to have the analogue
audio compression, but a clear version online would be cheap and satisfy
the audiophiles.

I realise that backstage isn't the best way to report faults...  it just
seems every time you report a fault via the correct route you don't get a
notification for (what seems like) ages.

Also I'm pleased to hear that the word open is being used in BBC circles -
and without being an expletive (I presume).

Anyway, congratulations on bringing BBC online radio to the next level!

2008/6/3 James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 And to feed back to you (it's your BBC)...

 The issue here was a peculiar glitch in the signal received by the
 satellite receiving units at Maidenhead. (At present, all our national
 network online streams are re-encoded from satellite receivers by our
 technology partner Siemens).

 For a while, we switched over to DAB as a backup source of audio, which
 cured the issue on most stations. (I say 'most' - one of the DAB receivers
 developed a fault, but that was soon overpatched. Marvel at the detail I'm
 giving you here). This was successful, though made BBC Radio 1 slightly
 distorted (since DAB processing is slightly 'louder' than that via
 satellite); Radio 1 was switched back to satellite delivery on Monday
 morning and others have since followed suit.

 Currently scheduled for next month, we'll switch to encoding national radio
 (live, and on-demand) straight from the transmission chain within
 Broadcasting House (using the same processing as the digital satellite feed,
 which is the best-suited for the internet environment). You'll notice a slew
 of changes to our audio online over the next few months - and, we hope, a
 set of new, developer-friendly, formats. (I can reveal that our choices of
 audio codec does not include Ogg Vorbis. Yes, I was the man who installed it
 at another national station. No, it is not good value for money to attempt
 the same at the BBC.)

 The BBC's FMT team are committed to being as open as we can - indeed,
 earlier today I escaped from an exciting conference which used the word
 Open more times than is healthy - so I hope this is interesting to some.
 However, I'd reiterate that our web form, as linked to by my friend and
 colleague Alan Ogilvie, is the quickest way to alert us to an issue and get
 it fixed - little mutes in audio may not get picked up by automated checking
 systems, and we don't generally sit and watch Backstage (indeed, as you've
 spotted, I rarely pop in here but am very vocal once I do).

 j (on behalf of his employer just this once)






 On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Alan Ogilvie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Brian - I have alerted our teams. Thank you. We are experiencing
 on-going problems with a few of our streams, you may notice issues on
 some listen again programmes (although I think we are down to the last
 few with a problem at the moment).

 In future the best way to contact us about streaming issues is via the
 contact pages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/feedback/

 (there is a direct email address, but it's worth going through the web
 form as it will capture useful things like your IP address and things)

 Alan

 --
 Alan Ogilvie

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (IP) Interactive Platforms Producer
 Distribution Technologies | Audio  Music Interactive
 Room 818, BBC Henry Wood House, 3-6 Langham Place, London, W1B 3DF


 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
 Sent: 30 May 2008 18:26
 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
 Subject: [backstage] Radio 4 on Realplayer


 Is it just me getting audio mutes every few seconds on the Real Audio
 stream of BBC Radio 4 FM.  The LW feed is OK though...

 Who do you tell these days?

 --

 Brian Butterworth

 http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
 advice, since 2002

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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Matthew Somerville

Brian Butterworth wrote:

But why on earth is this being done this way?


If by Astons you mean the superimposed captions, then if you had read the 
text below (and the blog posting linked to), you would see that we did try 
exactly that and it sadly just wasn't good enough.


ATB,
Matthew

The Astons on the channel carry the information anyway, and we know that 
this can be fed into another computer system, as the MHEG5 version of 
BBC Parliament.


I can't be that hard for BBC Parliament to provide the feed of 
information that is used to generate the Astons (and the former MHEG5 
service) as a live text file (or something).



2008/6/3 Etienne Pollard [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 See the blog posting at
 
http://www.mysociety.org/2008/06/01/video-recordings-of-the-house-of-commons-on-theyworkforyoucom/
 for the full announcement.



 Matching up individual speeches to video cuepoints is actually done in
 two stages - firstly, the CaptionerBot makes an approximate match for
 some of the speeches in Hansard using the raw BBC captions, and then
 we ask the general public to improve on the work of CaptionerBot using
 our simple and addictive online game (league table, prizes, etc).

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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Phil Wilson

However, a clear text feed of the data would keep the data pure, surely?


Seriously, where would the fun in that be?

Phil 'timestamp-tastic' Wilson
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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Brian Butterworth
Phil,

I'm sure one of the first computing acronyms I ever leant was GIGO...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIGO

2008/6/4 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 However, a clear text feed of the data would keep the data pure, surely?


 Seriously, where would the fun in that be?

 Phil 'timestamp-tastic' Wilson

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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Matthew Somerville

Phil Wilson wrote:

Phil 'timestamp-tastic' Wilson


People are catching up on you, Phil, better get back to it! ;-)

ATB,
Matthew
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RE: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Andrew Bowden

 Forgive my ignorance, but what is an Aston?

Aston is a company who provide systems for generating on-screen graphics
for live programmes - however it's also used as a generic term for those
same graphics.  So the kind of graphics like you get on the News where
they'll say Nick Higham reporting, the name of an interviewee or
similar.
 

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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Phil Wilson

I'm sure one of the first computing acronyms I ever leant was GIGO...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIGO


Yes, I know it. Take a look at Etienne's reply for one aspect of the details and why the 
captions may also count as garbage.


Another important point is that the video captioner they've put together matches video to 
Hansard, rather than just the captions - that is, to the official record of what was said, 
rather than what was actually said, which is an important distinction.


Phil



2008/6/4 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:


However, a clear text feed of the data would keep the data pure,
surely?


Seriously, where would the fun in that be?

Phil 'timestamp-tastic' Wilson

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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Matthew Somerville

Brian Butterworth wrote:
I thought they were trying to do OCR on the captions from the DVB-T 
stream. 


No, we have clear text. As it says in the blog post :-)


However, a clear text feed of the data would keep the data pure, surely?


Sadly not (trust me, I've spent some time on this!) - even ignoring some 
missing data (so we'd have to do this for then anyway), when there's a long 
debate sometimes the captioning simply shows a summary of what's going on 
rather than someone's name (especially if they're a minister so we know 
who they are); captions don't cover quick interruptions, which can really 
mess things up if there's a lot of going back and forth between two people; 
etc. etc. :)


ATB,
Matthew

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Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac

2008-06-04 Thread Tim Dobson

Tim Dobson wrote:
The immediate question that, I would like to ask 
$[spokesman|admin|person] is, in reference to [1], Why?


...and, as usual, the question falls into a deep, dark, hole with the 
rest of the unanswered questions about iplayer. :(


it's a shame really...

--
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If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us
still has one object.
If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now
has two ideas.   -  George Bernard Shaw
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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Brian Butterworth
2008/6/4 Etienne Pollard [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Brian Butterworth
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I thought they were trying to do OCR on the captions from the DVB-T
 stream.
 
  What I was saying was that the old Freeview version of BBC Parliament
 used
  to have a quarter-screen picture and the information that is now in the
  Astons was provided using MHEG5.  This was clear text (to keep the
 bandwidth
  down) not bitmap graphics.

 Forgive my ignorance, but what is an Aston?


Sorry, it's a genericized trademark for captions overlaid on TV output..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Broadcast_Systems




  OCRing is never going to be brilliant, given the semi-transparent nature
 of
  the captions on BBC Parliament.
 
  However, a clear text feed of the data would keep the data pure, surely?

 The machines that put the captions up on the screen have internal
 text-based logs, to which we have access.  However, since this is
 basically just pulling logfiles off a set of operational machines this
 access isn't 100% reliable.


The MHEG5 service was 100% reliable, I would conjecture that it is possible
to get them reliably.


  The data in the log files is of variable
 quality, since there are some speeches that are not captioned, and
 other times captions aren't actually speeches (e.g. reaction shot of
 previous speaker during a long speech can prompt a back and forth of
 captions, even though the same person is speaking throughout the
 changeover in captions).  So although we use the logfiles to get an
 approximate fix, we had to resort to the timestamping game for
 accuracy.


IMHO this is a just a clear case of GIGO.  The best thing is whoever is
operating the captions for BBC Parliament to be provided with the ability to
correctly tag the content in the first place.  The taxpayer (not Licence Fee
payer) is paying for this to be done already, it seems just crazy that they
can't do it, ahem, properly.

I'm not attacking the idea of the workaround, I'm just saying that it would
be best for the data to be prepared correctly at source and then
distributed.






 Hope that helps,

 -- etienne
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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Brian Butterworth
Phil,

2008/6/4 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I'm sure one of the first computing acronyms I ever leant was GIGO...

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIGO


 Yes, I know it. Take a look at Etienne's reply for one aspect of the
 details and why the captions may also count as garbage.

 Another important point is that the video captioner they've put together
 matches video to Hansard, rather than just the captions - that is, to the
 official record of what was said, rather than what was actually said, which
 is an important distinction.


I still can't help thinking that this should be done at source.  I thought
Auntie was supposed to be give good tagging?




 Phil


 2008/6/4 Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

However, a clear text feed of the data would keep the data pure,
surely?


Seriously, where would the fun in that be?

Phil 'timestamp-tastic' Wilson

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RE: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Christopher Woods
 Aston is a company who provide systems for generating 
 on-screen graphics for live programmes - however it's also 
 used as a generic term for those same graphics.  So the kind 
 of graphics like you get on the News where they'll say Nick 
 Higham reporting, the name of an interviewee or similar.

It's amazing how manual the whole process is, still... And amusing for me
(not for them, I'm sure) when little mistakes creep into live broadcasts :D
When I was lucky enough to get a tour round the Mailbox studios (an
unexpected one-off perk from one of my uni course's lecturers), I was quite
surprised when we got to go into the control room during a new broadcast and
suddenly had Natasha Kaplinsky's disembodied voice shouting ASTON ON
ASTON... ...ASTON OFF at the vision mixer!

Personally I think Brian Blessed's voice would been a better motivator ;)

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Re: [backstage] Video recordings of the House of Commons on TheyWorkForYou.com

2008-06-04 Thread Martin Deutsch
On 6/4/08, Etienne Pollard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Brian Butterworth
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  What I was saying was that the old Freeview version of BBC Parliament used
  to have a quarter-screen picture and the information that is now in the
  Astons was provided using MHEG5.  This was clear text (to keep the bandwidth
  down) not bitmap graphics.

 Forgive my ignorance, but what is an Aston?
Aston Broadcast Systems made a rather popular line of TV caption
generating equipment - what are sometimes known as 'lower third
graphics' are frequently referred to in the UK generically as Astons.

  OCRing is never going to be brilliant, given the semi-transparent nature of
  the captions on BBC Parliament.
 
  However, a clear text feed of the data would keep the data pure, surely?

 The machines that put the captions up on the screen have internal
 text-based logs, to which we have access.  However, since this is
 basically just pulling logfiles off a set of operational machines this
 access isn't 100% reliable.  The data in the log files is of variable
 quality, since there are some speeches that are not captioned, and
 other times captions aren't actually speeches (e.g. reaction shot of
 previous speaker during a long speech can prompt a back and forth of
 captions, even though the same person is speaking throughout the
 changeover in captions).  So although we use the logfiles to get an
 approximate fix, we had to resort to the timestamping game for
 accuracy.

Likewise, the caption may not appear as soon as the speaker does - a
friend of mine spent a most of a summer in a BBC Parliament
transmission gallery, captioning House of Lords coverage in real time.
It took while, but she got quite good at recognising peers by their
beards.

 - martin
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Re: [backstage] Radio 4 on Realplayer

2008-06-04 Thread James Cridland
@christopher:

 Ooo ooo oo oo oo oo oo oo, *FLAC streaming*? Lossless WMA?

If you'd be happy trebling your licence fee, and explaining why everyone
else has to... (grin)... but I've plenty of experience adding odd formats to
radio stations which don't have many listeners, thanks.

@briantist:

Obviously I'm hoping that everything that's on the iPlayer Radio will come
 as MP3s and the existing podcasts will be better quality (I would personally
 prefer a VBR stereo In Our Time than the current mono one).


VBR is something we've not actually looked at, as far as I'm aware. That's a
good and interesting thought - I'll consult with the clever people to see if
there are benefits for downloads. We are, though, not encoding everything
that the same rate; it depends on what the content is; there are four
different encoding profiles that we've identified. More though will need to
wait for the blog - and don't read this into saying that we're making
everything available as MP3 downloads; naturally, we're not. We can't.

It's probably way, way too late to ask for this, but how about having
 pre-compression (audio compression that is) versions of BBC Radio 3 and
 1Xtra as, at least, an option.  I can listen to my classical and drum n bass
 at home with their piano to forte range, would be great to have the same
 range from BBC radio.  I understand why DAB and FM need to have the analogue
 audio compression, but a clear version online would be cheap and satisfy
 the audiophiles.


In fact, there are separate audio-processing techniques for all outputs - so
FM is treated differently to DAB and to DTV. But, as you ask, we'll use the
least-processed output for our higher bitrate streams. And honestly, you
wouldn't want studio levels; they're a very unpleasant listen (says an ex
radio presenter who used to monitor levels by ensuring that the red light
didn't flash too much). Radio programmes are produced with the
audio-processing in mind; indeed, that's what the presenters hear in their
headphones.


 Also I'm pleased to hear that the word open is being used in BBC circles
 - and without being an expletive (I presume).


I discussed part of the FMT (future media and technology) core values a
few times with different colleagues - and always, without fail, open has
been the most well-received word.

j


[backstage] BBC Look East HTML rich newsletter

2008-06-04 Thread oohmechalfonts
 
 
Hello there,
 
I'm a journalist working for BBC East in Norwich and I've joined this mailing 
list to get advice and guidance - and possibly some ideas - about a project 
I've been working on for the last 6 months.
 
With the backing of my bosses at Look East and BBC English regions, I've 
designed, developed and launched a new graphics-rich e-mail newsletter which we 
now send out each day to about 2000 or so subscribers.
 
This newsletter is hard to describe, but what it does is to aggregate links - 
complete with headlines and thumbnail images - to the latest video news items 
which appear on the main Look East website, a 'blog' section promoting that 
evening's programmes with nested links expanding on the stories being 
discussed, drop down menus featuring linking to BBC East regional weather, news 
and sport sites and an occasional text ticker which promotes whatever we fancy 
- often our local radio stations.  
 
It's conceived primarily as a content delivery vehicle first, then a 
promotional tool, a way of combining all the services offered by the BBC in my 
region into one tidy package and also a way of elaborating on the stories we're 
working on.  
 
To subscribe -temporarily if you want, I won't mind :-) - go here :
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/lookeast/newsletter/subscription.shtml
 
Now the thing is, is that I'm a relative novice who is learning as I go along.  
What I've learned is that e-mail can only support very basic html and that 
there are limits to what features we can incorporate into this newsletter.  
However, I'm determined to max out the potential and capacity of this rather 
unusual way of delivering BBC content.  Any html tricks, ideas, criticisms, 
improvements, widgets or whatever anyone on this mailing list can offer in the 
way of developing this newsletter concept, I'd be hugely grateful.  Several 
other English regions are toying with the idea of adopting it, so I'm keen on 
adding new features, but my technical knowledge is still quite limited.
 
this whole experience has been really positive for me and I've become quite an 
evangelist for e-mail broadcasting, which I want to develop, though the 
inherent limitations of e-mail do constrain thigs somewhat (no scripting, 
flash, java etc).
 
This is my baby and I'm throwing it open to y'all to see if some new ideas 
emerge.
 
Cheers
 
Matt Precey   
 
_

All new Live Search at Live.com

http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl001006ukm/direct/01/

[backstage] Ray Gosling and Parsley Sidings

2008-06-04 Thread Richard Hyett
The first radio documentary I heard Ray Gosling do was a series about an
overland trip, 'on the road to new zealand', it came out in the late
seventies.  I think I was expecting a whispering reverential right-on Bob
Harris commentary, what we got was very different, very challenging.  Ray
has this voice, once you've heard it you never forget it, a voice as unique
as say John Ebden who used to do regular programmes 'From the BBC Sound
Archives'.  You could listen to their voices reading the telephone book.
Google tells me that Ray Gosling made over a thousand radio documentaries,
he is, I believe our greatest living broadcaster, not just my view, ask Andy
Kershaw. Has the BBC has preserved all or some of these programmes, how
would one go about finding out which ones are left? Are there inventories
somewhere that we can get hold of?  Are there teams of people digitising all
this stuff and what remit are they working too?  Sorry if this has been
covered before.  While I'm on the subject, Arthur Lowe and Ian Lavendar in
Parsley Sidings another national treasure that needs bringing back to the
surface from which ever dust coated shelf it has been sitting on these past
35 years.

There is a British Library Sound Archive, 71 entries for Ray Gosling,
nothing for Parsley Sidings, it's not exactly listen again, very 1994 ish.
Tell me I have unrealistic expectations and I'll happily agree.