Re: [backstage] iPad
I remember in 1992 when an engineer friend sniffed that Windows (v3) wasn't a proper operating system, just a DOS application, and DOS was a pig, and OS/2 was a serious OS. Bill Gates laughed all the way to the bank. Sean On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. 2010/1/27 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net So, what does everyone think? (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
OS/2 PM was a trick Microsoft played on IBM, wasn't it? Windows v3.0 was cooperative multitasking, not pre-emptive which was why people said it was a DOS application and they were quite right. It was the first point that made Gates rich, not the second. 2010/1/29 Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com I remember in 1992 when an engineer friend sniffed that Windows (v3) wasn't a proper operating system, just a DOS application, and DOS was a pig, and OS/2 was a serious OS. Bill Gates laughed all the way to the bank. Sean On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. 2010/1/27 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net So, what does everyone think? (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPad
Actually I thought it was Gary Kildall was out flying his plane when IBM rang that made Gates rich :-p Alex On 29 Jan 2010, at 09:11, Brian Butterworth wrote: OS/2 PM was a trick Microsoft played on IBM, wasn't it? Windows v3.0 was cooperative multitasking, not pre-emptive which was why people said it was a DOS application and they were quite right. It was the first point that made Gates rich, not the second. 2010/1/29 Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com I remember in 1992 when an engineer friend sniffed that Windows (v3) wasn't a proper operating system, just a DOS application, and DOS was a pig, and OS/2 was a serious OS. Bill Gates laughed all the way to the bank. Sean On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. 2010/1/27 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net So, what does everyone think? (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
Yes, Gates led IBM along; his chief concern was to distract them while gaining market share for Windows. i remember a press conference in Paris in 1993 for the Windows NT launch where he said he expected IBM to break apart into pieces. It was the DOS OEM licensing that made Gates rich. Sean On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: OS/2 PM was a trick Microsoft played on IBM, wasn't it? Windows v3.0 was cooperative multitasking, not pre-emptive which was why people said it was a DOS application and they were quite right. It was the first point that made Gates rich, not the second. 2010/1/29 Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com I remember in 1992 when an engineer friend sniffed that Windows (v3) wasn't a proper operating system, just a DOS application, and DOS was a pig, and OS/2 was a serious OS. Bill Gates laughed all the way to the bank. Sean On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. 2010/1/27 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net So, what does everyone think? (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
He was quite right. I spent many a happy year removing coax and 3270s and replacing them with cat 5. One of my favourite tasks involved removing a mainframe from a building, along with it's toxic fire suppression system and replacing it with a small Novell server that sat very comically in the middle of this huge room with enough cooling to keep a colony of penguins happy. Said server was more capable and powerful than what had been chucked out, and cost less than an single IBM-branded cable. There were many a sad face from those who got sacked for only knowing useless old IBM the thing that weeks before no one got sacked for buying. Ah, happy times. 2010/1/29 Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com Yes, Gates led IBM along; his chief concern was to distract them while gaining market share for Windows. i remember a press conference in Paris in 1993 for the Windows NT launch where he said he expected IBM to break apart into pieces. It was the DOS OEM licensing that made Gates rich. Sean On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: OS/2 PM was a trick Microsoft played on IBM, wasn't it? Windows v3.0 was cooperative multitasking, not pre-emptive which was why people said it was a DOS application and they were quite right. It was the first point that made Gates rich, not the second. 2010/1/29 Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com I remember in 1992 when an engineer friend sniffed that Windows (v3) wasn't a proper operating system, just a DOS application, and DOS was a pig, and OS/2 was a serious OS. Bill Gates laughed all the way to the bank. Sean On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: Underwhelming. It's a big iPhone. It's named after the Star Trek PADD. Might be good it if ran an operating system and had a keyboard. 2010/1/27 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net So, what does everyone think? (and how much effect will it have on the video situation over the next 18 months or so, do we reckon?) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] iPad
cubicgaren.com will always be down :) Its cubicgarden.com and its up trust me. Secret[] Private[x] Public[] Ian Forrester Senior Backstage Producer BBC RD North Lab, 1st Floor Office, OB Base, New Broadcasting House, Oxford Road, Manchester, M60 1SJ From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 28 January 2010 17:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Ian, I don't know where you host cubicgaren.com (at home, perhaps) but it's very often down, as it is now... 2010/1/28 Ian Forrester ian.forres...@bbc.co.uk I tried calling him but he wouldn't take my call. Something about a blog entry I wrote about the ipad? :) http://cubicgarden.com/wordpress/2010/01/27/the-apple-ipad-underwelming-but-not-a-bad-price/ Secret[] Private[x] Public[] Ian Forrester Senior Backstage Producer BBC RD North Lab, 1st Floor Office, OB Base, New Broadcasting House, Oxford Road, Manchester, M60 1SJ From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Brendan Quinn Sent: 28 January 2010 16:15 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iPad heh, we have a virtual steadicam system in RD that could address this problem (the motion sickness thing)... has anyone got Steve Jobs' phone number? From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:49 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad I'd agree to a gentleman's wager that the second generation will have a front facing camera and a native application just for this purpose. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 08:37:23 2010 Subject: RE: [backstage] iPad I can see why they didn’t put a camera on it. Who’s going to be bother holding the thing still enough to enable decent chat? It would be a nightmare to try and hold it out in front of your face and even worse for the person getting motion sickness on the other end. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Kraskin Sent: 28 January 2010 13:28 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Re camera, I want it for the exact same reason every single apple laptop has one. Not point and shoot, but video chat. And if developers do change because of this, that's great, and perhaps then it will make sense to buy one. - Original Message - From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Thu Jan 28 07:56:06 2010 Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:20, Michael Kraskin michael.kras...@bbc.com wrote: I think the no-Flash means that it a seriously crippled web browser. Hardly the best way to browse the internet, and thus will be a serious
RE: [backstage] iPad
Thanks for the link. I got to agree with Tom's comments and ultimately this is what bugs me the most about Apple. They use to be a think different company, and at the forefront of aiding your creativity. Now there just a appliance maker. As pointed out, appliances are not geek/hacker friendly and that worries me deeply. How many consume only devices do we need? How's the next backstage prototype going to come from someone using an iPad? Most of this stuff is discussed to its logical end in http://futureoftheinternet.org/ Which is a great book to read... Also its free as in beer I found this link off while browsing, http://www.slate.com/id/2242556/pagenum/all/ Not everyone will celebrate this new experience in computing. Making PCs simpler to use will also inevitably make them less customizable. For most techies, customizability is the soul of computing. Google's Android has gained a following among engineer-types precisely because it is endlessly flexible; you can peer into its deepest recesses of code and tinker with all that you find there, producing some amazing modifications. But tinkerers are a limited market; there are lots of people who like to soup up their cars, but there are lots more who don't. If Apple is wise—and I'm betting it is—it'll build a tablet for the large majority of people who just want it to work. This always urks me. Tinkerers? Is someone who puts fluffy dice in there car a tinkerer or not? The person who chooses to add a CD changer or puts a roof rack on top, a tinkerer? Apple was built on tinkerers, and now there closing the door on the next generation. Secret[] Private[] Public[x] Ian Forrester Senior Backstage Producer BBC RD North Lab, 1st Floor Office, OB Base, New Broadcasting House, Oxford Road, Manchester, M60 1SJ -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Morris Sent: 29 January 2010 02:55 To: backstage Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 22:37, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net wrote: So, what does everyone think? I quoted it earlier on my blog - Alex Payne (@al3x) states succintly what the problem is with closed platforms like the iPad: The thing that bothers me most about the iPad is this: if I had an iPad rather than a real computer as a kid, I’d never be a programmer today. I’d never have had the ability to run whatever stupid, potentially harmful, hugely educational programs I could download or write. - http://al3x.net/2010/01/28/ipad.html I'm preaching to the choir here - the first computers I used were both open and booted straight to a BASIC prompt (BBC B booted straight to BBC BASIC, and the Amstrad CPC 6128 booted to AMSBASIC). Back then, games and accessories were pretty expensive - £25-£30 (£30 in 1990 money is £45 in 2009 money, remember), and no Internet, meant the only thing to do was to play around and write code. Now, to programme on my Mac, I have to install a special developer kit from the DVD. On Windows, you can hack, but it's not at all clear how to unless you really rummage around a bit. Okay, so Apple have made a closed platform. Big deal. What concerns me more about the iPad and the rise of proprietary App Stores (there are people saying that there ought to be app stores for Windows and Mac OS X!) is the reaction of the geeks is don't worry, web apps will save us. I've seen so many people say this - Joe Hewitt, Chris Messina and many others. Except web apps won't save us. Web apps will always be a second class citizen. How about any software that requires a bit of oomph? I bring up three examples always: Final Cut Pro, Eclipse, Crysis. Last time I checked, browsers weren't much good at chucking polygons around compared to the cheap and widespread graphics cards in everybody's computers (don't let the length of the spec fool you: HTML5 does not contain OpenGL hidden inside!). And they will never have full platform access. On the iPhone, how do you get access to the Notifications API from a web app? (Best I can think of is e-mail or Twitter.) And what if there's data that's supposed to be a little bit more private? And, it doesn't solve Alex Payne's issue: it basically splits the world into two - the haves and the have-nots. The haves live in a world of computers, compilers and servers. The have-nots, even if they have great ideas, don't get to play in that world. They don't even get to play at the shallow end and! build webpages or write JavaScript hacks (sorry, no Firebug for you, no text editor, no filesystem even!). -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit
Re: [backstage] iPad
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 14:53, Ian Forrester ian.forres...@bbc.co.uk wrote: But tinkerers are a limited market; there are lots of people who like to soup up their cars, but there are lots more who don't. If Apple is wise—and I'm betting it is—it'll build a tablet for the large majority of people who just want it to work. This always urks me. Tinkerers? Is someone who puts fluffy dice in there car a tinkerer or not? The person who chooses to add a CD changer or puts a roof rack on top, a tinkerer? Apple was built on tinkerers, and now there closing the door on the next generation. This does somewhat ignore the fact that, especially in Apple's darkest days, those who develop for the platform were its core customer base. WWDC is a major event in the Apple calendar. Nobody’s going to be running Xcode on an iPad any time soon; the needs of developers and hobbyists and so-called tinkerers will be served for a long time to come, not to mention the various “Pro” application scenarios which don't mesh well with the consumer-focussed UI of iPhone OS. The iPad is nowhere near the be-all and end-all of Apple's product strategy, but it is *a* part of it, and guns for a segment which nobody has any real success in capturing to date. I don't doubt that within 6 months there'll be a glut of competing devices which attempt to peg the trade-off between flexibility and usability at a different point along the line. There seems to be a lot of criticism, mostly in tech articles rather than individual discussions, that a device seemingly designed to cater for people who aren't particularly interested in computers appears to be a device for people who aren’t particularly interested in computers. I would refute the idea that Apple was built on tinkerers to an extent: it may have been true in the days of the Apple II, but it hasn't been since, really, at all (and during a big chunk of the 1990s, it wasn't clear *what* it was built on). M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
Damn right! If, like me you are a tinkerer and like to create, hell I've already got a Mac. I can do that stuff. iPad is not for that. It is a consumer device. It's good at that - that market doesn't want to tinker, in the same way that any who buy a car just want to use it to drive somewhere and don't feel the need to become a mechanic to enjoy what it does. Anyone wants to tinker, go and buy a Haynes manual :) Å 29/01/2010 15:38, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net a écrit: There seems to be a lot of criticism, mostly in tech articles rather than individual discussions, that a device seemingly designed to cater for people who aren't particularly interested in computers appears to be a device for people who aren¹t particularly interested in computers. -- Darren Stephens MBCS CITP School of Arts and New Media University of Hull Scarborough Campus Filey Road Scarborough t: +441723357360 e: darren.steph...@hull.ac.uk * To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html *
RE: [backstage] iPad
A Haynes manual won't help you with a modern car. You need an engine monitoring system and connection to the manufacturer Rupert Watson +44 7787 554 801 www.root6.com -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Darren Stephens Sent: 29 January 2010 15:50 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPad Damn right! If, like me you are a tinkerer and like to create, hell I've already got a Mac. I can do that stuff. iPad is not for that. It is a consumer device. It's good at that - that market doesn't want to tinker, in the same way that any who buy a car just want to use it to drive somewhere and don't feel the need to become a mechanic to enjoy what it does. Anyone wants to tinker, go and buy a Haynes manual :) Å 29/01/2010 15:38, Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net a écrit: There seems to be a lot of criticism, mostly in tech articles rather than individual discussions, that a device seemingly designed to cater for people who aren't particularly interested in computers appears to be a device for people who aren¹t particularly interested in computers. -- Darren Stephens MBCS CITP School of Arts and New Media University of Hull Scarborough Campus Filey Road Scarborough t: +441723357360 e: darren.steph...@hull.ac.uk __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ROOT 6 LIMITED Registered in the UK at 4 WARDOUR MEWS, LONDON W1F 8AJ Company No. 03433253 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad
Rupert Watson wrote: A Haynes manual won't help you with a modern car. You need an engine monitoring system and connection to the manufacturer Megasquirt.info - for the hardcore - that won't accept that. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
