Re: [backstage] iPlayer and open source
On 15 April 2010 21:48, Scot McSweeney-Roberts < bbc_backst...@mcsweeney-roberts.co.uk> wrote: > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 20:42, David Greaves wrote: > > > Like many people who watch TV you mistake yourself for the BBC's > customer. > > Perhaps you should consider how much more sense it makes when you > consider > > yourself their product. > > > While that's certainly true for commercial TV, Au contraire. For the commercial channels is the advertisers who are the customers. The viewers are the "eyeballs" delivered to them. The programmes are there as fodder to get the punters to watch the adverts. This applies to most basic-tier subscription channels (the subscription you pay goes to the gatekeeper, not the broadcaster). The only people who are "customers" of TV in the UK are subscribers to Sky Sports and Sky Movies, as only here are you a customer in any real sense. you can't really say > that about the BBC. Saying you're the BBC's product is like saying > you're the local library's product or the police service's product's > or any other publicly funded service's product - it's a bit absurd. > > However, while we're not the product, I'm not convinced we're viewed > as the BBC's customer either. > > Scot > - > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please > visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
[backstage] A Five year retrospective
Hi All, Just in case you have not seen the blog (http://xrl.us/bhha3j), missed the tweet and dents... Its almost 5 years since Backstage launched into the public at OpenTech05 by Ben Metcalfe. Since then a lot of things have happened and changed. Who would have thought the political parties would be shouting about open data in their manifesto's. Anyhow, we're looking to build quite a mash-up but using you and your experiences as the data. I won't go into details right now but you can expect that the data will also be available for yourselves to build on too. So what you waiting for, fill in the forms and I look forward to seeing your answers aggregated together in the near future. https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDdkRDlNY2RmVGNuTThoaTVURHVDdVE6MQ - Mapping Your BBC Backstage Memories http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHJYV0swTGxkZDRlYnBpeUJoSXg2WXc6MQ - Images of BBC Backstage Cheers, Ian Forrester - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Sun ships sudden Java patch
A drive by malware attack has recently been discovered: http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=6186&tag=nl.e589 Sun has released the Java update to fix the issue (6u20). The link to the Sun Java site is in the ZDNet article. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer and open source
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 20:42, David Greaves wrote: > Like many people who watch TV you mistake yourself for the BBC's customer. > Perhaps you should consider how much more sense it makes when you consider > yourself their product. While that's certainly true for commercial TV, you can't really say that about the BBC. Saying you're the BBC's product is like saying you're the local library's product or the police service's product's or any other publicly funded service's product - it's a bit absurd. However, while we're not the product, I'm not convinced we're viewed as the BBC's customer either. Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer and open source
Alex Cockell wrote: > Hi folks, > > Re the genuine, honest users being hurt by all this DRM nonsense.. > *waves hand* > > I would LOVE to be able to play iPlayer stuff in Totem (th ehigh-quality > streams)- why on earth are the Beeb management making it so difficult > for their customers? Like many people who watch TV you mistake yourself for the BBC's customer. Perhaps you should consider how much more sense it makes when you consider yourself their product. David -- "Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it work in a cartoon once..." - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Fwd: On Web Applications, Web Architecture And Resource Identifiers
Forwarding this iPlayer and Backstage-related case study from W3C's Technical Architecture Group list (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Apr/0072.html ), since the author T.V Raman (cc:'d) isn't on the backstage list. He asked that if I forward it, to take care also to mention that ... """what I wrote up is an "outside-in" analysis of their app --- with no insight as to what implementation constraints they had. I'd love to hear from their developers as to the "rest of the story" with respect to how they got here --- that would help us couch recommended design-patterns and anti-patterns in the context of what Web developers have to work with.""" (I'll sneak in my own jumbled view here: Backstage is more a developer community around the BBC, rather than a separate set of machine interfaces or datasets, although it is sometimes talked about in that way. The BBC Web sites at their developer-friendly best ( /programmes, various music, wildlife things, ...) are already their own "API", by virtue of using REST, linked data and webarch habits. The iPlayer work is great for end users but (for all kinds of natural reasons) doesn't seem yet to be angled at developers, re-use etc. --Dan) -- Forwarded message -- From: T.V Raman Date: Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:59 AM Subject: On Web Applications, Web Architecture And Resource Identifiers To: www-...@w3.org See http://xml-applications.blogspot.com/2010/04/on-web-applications-web-architecture.html for some personal observations on the design of present-day Web Applications and the implications for Web Architecture. I'll attach a version here for convenience. On Web Applications, Web Architecture And Resource Identifiers Table of Contents 1 On Web Applications, Web Architecture And Resource Identifiers 1.1 Background 1.2 Case Study: BBCiPlayer And BBC Backstage 1.3 BBC IPlayer 1.4 BBC Backstage 1.5 How It Works At Present 1.6 Observations 2 Conclusion 1 On Web Applications, Web Architecture And Resource Identifiers 1.1 Background As we evolve from a Web of documents (Web 1.0) to a Web of applications (Web 2.0) and eventually Toward 2^W --- Beyond Web 2.0, key underpinnings of Web Architecture such as resource identifiers require careful re-examination. As a member of the W3C's Technical Architecture Group, I have been trying to define Web Architecture in the context of Web applications; a necessary first step toward that goal is to analyze how complex Web applications are implemented on the Web of today. This article will carefully avoid abstract issues such as Resource vs Representation, URIs vs URLs, etc. — and instead focus on more practical considerations such as: What is a URI and what can the user expect to do with it? When dereferencing a URI, what pieces of software does one need to have to retrieve a useful representation of that resource? Here, useful is defined from the perspective of the end-user. Thus, given a URI to a piece of media on the Web, relevant metadata is necessary but not sufficient to be useful — the user needs to be able to retrieve and play the media stream as well. 1.2 Case Study: BBCiPlayer And BBC Backstage The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) provides streaming access to a large amount of radio and television content via a Web application called BBC iPlayer. In addition, BBC Backstage provides a rich data-oriented API to the underlying dataset in the form of linked data. Additionally, program schedules can be downloaded in a number of presentation independent formats such as XML, JSON and YAML. The remaining sections in this article detail what can (and cannot be done) with the information that is readily available from BBCiPlayer and BBC Backstage. In the process, we observe some design patterns (and anti-patterns) found on today's Web, and their efect on building richer Web applications from Web parts. 1.3 BBC IPlayer Using the BBC iPlayer Web application requires: A modern script-enabled browser such as Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or IE. Browser plugins for media playback, such as Realplayer or Windows Media. The Adobe Flash plugin for translating playback links on the BBC iPlayer page to their corresponding Realplayer or Windows Media resources. Appropriate media player plugins based on the user's platform, e.g., Realplayer or Windows Media. The Web application as implemented provides a rich, interactive visual interface that is sub-optimal for use from other programs. 1.4 BBC Backstage Given the triple (radio-station, outlet, date) e.g.: (radio4, fm, 2010/04/14) one can retrieve an XML representation of the program schedule using the URL: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm/2010/04/14.xml as documented on the BBC Backstage site. Alternative serializations such as JSON or YAML can be retrieved by appropriately replacing the .xml extension. This retrieved schedule contains detailed metadata for each program that is broadcast, including a programme id pid tha
[backstage] iPlayer and open source
Hi folks, Re the genuine, honest users being hurt by all this DRM nonsense.. *waves hand* I would LOVE to be able to play iPlayer stuff in Totem (th ehigh-quality streams)- why on earth are the Beeb management making it so difficult for their customers? -- Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
Ah - good idea.
I guess that means that the Apple webkit is statically linked - so it picks up
the iPhone version.
Just tried it by using the iPhone Facebook app - and became a "fan" of one of
the BBC iPlayer pages ... which has a link
in the info section. Worked well.
Paul
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:11:26 +0100, you wrote:
>If you use an iPhone app with a built in browser ("Files" works well for me),
>you can access the iPhone iPlayer on the iPad. It looks reasonably good in
>pixel-doubled mode.
>
>Jamie.
>
>On 15 Apr 2010, at 12:33, Paul Webster paul-at-dabdig.com |BBC Lists/Example
>Allow| wrote:
>
>> Ok - I admit it ... I have one.
>> Any chance of adding iPad Safari user-agent to the list of things that look
>> like an iPhone so that iPlayer works?
>>
>> Here are examples:
>> iPad:
>> Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/531.21.10
>> (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4
>> Mobile/7B367 Safari/531.21.10
>>
>> iPhone:
>> Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us)
>> AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0
>> Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16
>>
>> I realise that it could be optimised for the display characteristics - but
>> right now it is useless because BBC site asks
>> for Flash.
>>
>> Paul Webster
>>
>> -
>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
>> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>> Unofficial list archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>
>
>-
>Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
>visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
If you use an iPhone app with a built in browser ("Files" works well for me),
you can access the iPhone iPlayer on the iPad. It looks reasonably good in
pixel-doubled mode.
Jamie.
On 15 Apr 2010, at 12:33, Paul Webster paul-at-dabdig.com |BBC Lists/Example
Allow| wrote:
> Ok - I admit it ... I have one.
> Any chance of adding iPad Safari user-agent to the list of things that look
> like an iPhone so that iPlayer works?
>
> Here are examples:
> iPad:
> Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/531.21.10
> (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4
> Mobile/7B367 Safari/531.21.10
>
> iPhone:
> Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us)
> AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0
> Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16
>
> I realise that it could be optimised for the display characteristics - but
> right now it is useless because BBC site asks
> for Flash.
>
> Paul Webster
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
> Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
On Thu, 2010-04-15 at 13:00 +0100, Ian Stirling wrote: > get_iplayer - and friends were very useful in the past. It's still useful. The DRM only really hurts the casual and relatively clue-free user; if you're clueful enough it's simple enough to update to the current version of rtmpdump and have get_iplayer feed it the appropriate -swfVfy option. And since fairly much everyone who was systematically violating the copyright _is_ capable of that, the only people who are inconvenienced are the genuine, honest users. As usual. I can kind of sympathise with the 'Something Must Be Done; this is Something so We Must Do It' brigade. It must be hard being in a position where you have to make technical choices, but you're too clueless to make sane ones and you don't have the integrity to either resign or delegate the more technical decisions to someone who's actually capable of doing the job. But I do wish they'd stick to _other_ pointless and ineffective solutions like sacrificing a goat or installing a 'panic button'... anything which _wouldn't_ also hurt the genuine users. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
On 15 April 2010 14:10, Mo McRoberts wrote: > this is no means of going about getting that changed… What do you suggest? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
On 15-Apr-2010, at 13:00, Ian Stirling wrote: > Personally, I would argue strongly against this on competition grounds. That makes no sense. How is *extending* the user-agent whitelist bad for competition? > The BBC should not be in the business of promoting any one vendor who choses > not to install flash on their platform for their own internal reasons. So it should drop the Wii, PS3, Freesat and Nokia implementations? More to the point, how is it *promoting* anything? I dislike the fact that iPlayer is reliant upon a blessed Flash implementation unless you’re using one of the very narrow set of supported alternative devices, but this is no means of going about getting that changed… - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
> Personally, I would argue strongly against this on competition grounds. > > The BBC should not be in the business of promoting any one vendor who choses > not to install flash on their platform for their own internal reasons. > > Iplayer 'works' on my platform. > > Well - to the extent of 3 frames a second with a following wind, and the > video not keeping up with the audio. > > In a sane player - not flash - the content plays smoothly, and can output > flawless video to a TV even. > > get_iplayer - and friends were very useful in the past. I think you're confused. When Linux people say they don't want Flash then that's crazy hippy talk and can safely be ignored. When Apple says they don't want Flash then that's a bold design statement about the quality of content delivery on their platform and should be applauded. I hope that clears it up for you. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
On 15-Apr-2010, at 12:54, Brian Butterworth wrote: > I thought a device had to have a reasonable UK market share before the BBC > supported it? I’m not convinced that “rule” is applied remotely consistently, in either direction. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
Paul Webster wrote: Ok - I admit it ... I have one. Any chance of adding iPad Safari user-agent to the list of things that look like an iPhone so that iPlayer works? Here are examples: iPad: Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/531.21.10 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4 Mobile/7B367 Safari/531.21.10 iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16 I realise that it could be optimised for the display characteristics - but right now it is useless because BBC site asks for Flash. Personally, I would argue strongly against this on competition grounds. The BBC should not be in the business of promoting any one vendor who choses not to install flash on their platform for their own internal reasons. Iplayer 'works' on my platform. Well - to the extent of 3 frames a second with a following wind, and the video not keeping up with the audio. In a sane player - not flash - the content plays smoothly, and can output flawless video to a TV even. get_iplayer - and friends were very useful in the past. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
You must mean column inches On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Brian Butterworth wrote: > I thought a device had to have a reasonable UK market share before the BBC > supported it? > > On 15 April 2010 12:33, Paul Webster wrote: >> >> Ok - I admit it ... I have one. >> Any chance of adding iPad Safari user-agent to the list of things that >> look like an iPhone so that iPlayer works? >> >> Here are examples: >> iPad: >> Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) >> AppleWebKit/531.21.10 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4 >> Mobile/7B367 Safari/531.21.10 >> >> iPhone: >> Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) >> AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 >> Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16 >> >> I realise that it could be optimised for the display characteristics - but >> right now it is useless because BBC site asks >> for Flash. >> >> Paul Webster >> >> - >> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please >> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. >> Unofficial list archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > -- > > Brian Butterworth > > follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist > web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover > advice, since 2002 > - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPad and iPlayer
I thought a device had to have a reasonable UK market share before the BBC supported it? On 15 April 2010 12:33, Paul Webster wrote: > Ok - I admit it ... I have one. > Any chance of adding iPad Safari user-agent to the list of things that look > like an iPhone so that iPlayer works? > > Here are examples: > iPad: > Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) > AppleWebKit/531.21.10 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4 > Mobile/7B367 Safari/531.21.10 > > iPhone: > Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) > AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 > Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16 > > I realise that it could be optimised for the display characteristics - but > right now it is useless because BBC site asks > for Flash. > > Paul Webster > > - > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please > visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
[backstage] iPad and iPlayer
Ok - I admit it ... I have one. Any chance of adding iPad Safari user-agent to the list of things that look like an iPhone so that iPlayer works? Here are examples: iPad: Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/531.21.10 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.4 Mobile/7B367 Safari/531.21.10 iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16 I realise that it could be optimised for the display characteristics - but right now it is useless because BBC site asks for Flash. Paul Webster - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DIGITAL ECONOMY ACT 2010 ANALYSIS
Interesting read, Andrews & Arnold are a great ISP On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Brian Butterworth wrote: > Yes, yes, I know that, I just thought in the context of *BBC *Backstage it > was quite amusing. > > > On 14 April 2010 09:27, Fearghas McKay wrote: > >> >> On 14 Apr 2010, at 08:04, Brian Butterworth wrote: >> >> 22-41 TV and radio stuff >>> Not relevant >>> >>> The audience for the article is the ISP industry as the Bill puts a lot >> of extra work onto the ISPs, who are not best pleased at having to bear the >> costs of another industry's failure to monetise the digital world. It is an >> early discussion document as ISPs work out the code of practice that Ofcom >> will be required to either approve or write. >> >> >>f >> >> - >> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, >> please visit >> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. >> Unofficial list archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ >> > > > > -- > > Brian Butterworth > > follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist > web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover > advice, since 2002 >
