Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Dogsbody]

LOL, my GF sent this to me almost as soon as the news release came out! 
she wants this so badly!


And now she is complaining to me that programs seem to be missing or 
broken on the Wii version.  :-(


We went to watch Dr Who Confidential last night, the show stopped 
after 10mins... the flash video just ended.  Today she went to watch 
the I'd do anything results show and it comes up with an error message 
on the Wii but works fine on the PC :-/


I realise the Wii version is in Beta but I said I would let you know :-)

Dan
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Michael]

On Sunday 13 April 2008 05:43:50 Brian Butterworth wrote:
> On 12/04/2008, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Saturday 12 April 2008 05:57:49 Brian Butterworth wrote:
> > > If it were all doing using HTTP it would be easily cached, of course,
...
> > Ignores the fact that most caches will not cache objects over a certain
> > size. 
..
> Every proxy server I have set-up allows you to configure this!  

Indeed. I even mentioned that myself, where I mentioned that it'd probably 
need to be whitelisted (as a per domain limit). That said, it damages the 
purpose behind the proxy. If you change the core aim from speed saving to 
bandwidth, then whitelisting _sufficient_ amounts of large objects will drive 
the overall cache hit rate down since that is dominated by small objects. 
(since you can get better bandwith savings often by targetting sufficiently 
popular large files, reducing space for the massively more popular small 
files)

If this goes down too far, then whilst your lower quartile response times will 
be dominated by the time it takes to serve a hit, if your median and upper 
quartile response times become dominated by median and upper quartile 
response times the user experience becomes massively uneven - with some 
things served incredibly quickly and some things (by comparison) incredibly 
slowly.

The user may actually (from an objective viewpoint) be experiencing a quicker 
response time overall, but in that scenario, they would believe they were 
getting significantly worse. 

This isn't theoretical, I've seen this in a wide number of different caching 
deployments from small companies, universities through international ISPs 
where I've deployed (or trouble shooted) caching systems.

When that happens, the users DO complain and push for the caching system to
be turned off. In extreme cases users vote DO with their feet.

> If this is really a problem, then you could set up a server for each ISP
> with the files copied on their network with the Iplayer software being
> redirected to the fastest file when available.
>
> So, if you watch a programme on a BT (Phorm! boo, hiss) ISP line, you get
> the stream from iplayer.btinternet.com, on talktalk from
> iplayer.talktalk.com etc.

Here you're talking about deploying a content distribution network with 
servers inside the ISPs, essentially, redirecting requests to the closest 
possible servers. This is precisely what many CDNs (include Akamai) do. If 
the BBC wanted to build out something similar then something based on 
Scattercast [1] would work well. 

[1] http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~brewer/papers/scattercast-mmsj.pdf
 http://research.chawathe.com/people/yatin/publications/thesis-single.pdf

more bitesize:
http://research.chawathe.com/people/yatin/publications/talks/stanford-netseminar.ppt

I've deployed something based on it's principles in the past (at a different 
employer) integrated with a caching infrastructure- Scattercast was 
commercialised by a company called Fast Forward who disappearded a fair few 
years back, but the approach is sound and reimplementable given the PhD 
thesis linked is suffciiently detailed.

Even if that approach is patented (unknown, and next to impossible to check if 
*no* part of the system is patented), then there are a multitude of others 
that can be taken since scattercast works essentially by doing multicast at 
application layer, with application packets. (a complete GOP for example 
rather than an IP packet)

The implementation I worked with essentially performed its internal routing 
based on RIP with a static network definition, but there's no reason that 
that can't be done in a more modern dynamic way.

However, there is a flip side. As people have repeatedly said here, some ISPs 
have sold people "unlimited" capacity, which they don't have, simply 
because "current common usage patterns fit a certain bandwidth level" and 
they've built their business model on that basis. 

That "common usage" pattern is changing, and that's hitting those ISPs bottom 
line. (In the case of ISPs who do already have a model that passes on costs 
in an upfront manner not claiming to be unlimited, they will naturally tout 
this.)

Then there's various approaches - you either charge your real costs, you seek 
someone to blame or you find a way of working *with* content providers to 
reduce costs for both you and them to deliver a better service to your 
customers/their audience. (It's up to those businesses to decide how to
deal with their mismarketing, though I do like the final option myself)

Caching is part of the picture, CDN's (well MDNs in this case) another part, 
but also ISPs being clearer with their customers is another. After all, you 
shouldn't be able to claim unlimited for something limited, should you?

I think I've said everything I've got worth saying there and leave it at that. 
I'm guessing you'll disagree with a substantial amount so I'll agree to 
disagree with you in advance :-)

(far too

iPlayer Caching was Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Adam Leach]

On Sun, 2008-04-13 at 07:43 +0300, Brian Butterworth wrote:
> 
> 
> On 12/04/2008, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> On Saturday 12 April 2008 05:57:49 Brian Butterworth wrote:
> > If it were all doing using HTTP it would be easily cached,
> of course, as
> > you can do this with a proxy server, either a configured-in
> one as used on
> > corporate and educational networks, or as a transparent
> proxy.
> 
> Ignores the fact that most caches will not cache objects over
> a certain size.
> (The maximum usually based on average object size, which is
> dominated by
> small images and HTML). Also it depends on the purpose the
> cache is there
> for - speed or bandwidth savings, and even then you still need
> a maximum, it's
> just where you set it which will vary.
>  
> Every proxy server I have set-up allows you to configure this!  There
> is no reason whatsoever that large files cannot be cached, and even
> part-retrieved.
>  
> If this is really a problem, then you could set up a server for each
> ISP with the files copied on their network with the Iplayer software
> being redirected to the fastest file when available.
>  
> So, if you watch a programme on a BT (Phorm! boo, hiss) ISP line, you
> get the stream from iplayer.btinternet.com, on talktalk from
> iplayer.talktalk.com etc.
>  
> If we are talking of saving the ISPs the billions of pounds they claim
> it cannot be beyond the wit of us programmes can it?
>  

NTL used to run invisible proxies throughout their network, however it
caused many problems.  Since they changed to Virgin Media they have now
removed all these proxies from their network.

It adds an additional link in the chain that can fail.  In the past i
have had problems accessing content when the proxy i was assigned to had
problems and was failing to return pages.  

Other problems are the majority of proxies available will not cache
proper streamed content, so this talk of using proxies would be
pointless.

The alternative is taking the Akamai idea a step further and adding
distribution servers in the exchanges, but it has already been pointed
out that this is not possible with the current IP Stream product.

None of these solutions are scalable or useful for any other content
provider.  What happens when ITV catchup, 4od or any other service
becomes popular to the same level as iPlayer.

The best solution is the industry hassles Ofcom and then get transit
fees reduced by BT to reasonable levels. 

Adam


-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Brian Butterworth]

On 12/04/2008, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Saturday 12 April 2008 05:57:49 Brian Butterworth wrote:
> > If it were all doing using HTTP it would be easily cached, of course, as
> > you can do this with a proxy server, either a configured-in one as used
> on
> > corporate and educational networks, or as a transparent proxy.
>
> Ignores the fact that most caches will not cache objects over a certain
> size.
> (The maximum usually based on average object size, which is dominated by
> small images and HTML). Also it depends on the purpose the cache is there
> for - speed or bandwidth savings, and even then you still need a maximum,
> it's
> just where you set it which will vary.


Every proxy server I have set-up allows you to configure this!  There is no
reason whatsoever that large files cannot be cached, and even
part-retrieved.

If this is really a problem, then you could set up a server for each ISP
with the files copied on their network with the Iplayer software being
redirected to the fastest file when available.

So, if you watch a programme on a BT (Phorm! boo, hiss) ISP line, you get
the stream from iplayer.btinternet.com, on talktalk from
iplayer.talktalk.com etc.

If we are talking of saving the ISPs the billions of pounds they claim it
cannot be beyond the wit of us programmes can it?


There are algorithms that will take into account object size and popularity
> (combination of LFU & GDS approaches), but they're still mainly targetted
> at
> object size distributions below the 90-95th percentile.
>
> You can use whitelisting, but the maintainence overhead of such a
> whitelist
> can become quite spectacular, and can depend on the purpose behind
> caching in their network ((peceived) speed saving or bandwidth saving[1]).
> Thus, whitelisting or changing the maximum object size can massively
> impacts the effectiveness of the cache infrastructure as a whole.
>
>   [1] These two do not always correlate, since one is based on
> percentiles,
>the other is absolute figures.
>
> (I worked for the best part 5 years looking at this sort of stuff in great
> detail in both theoretical and (a wide variety of) operational
> environments,
> so I'm summarising :-)
>
> Also, none of this is any use for streaming over RTMP. (and HTTP streaming
> has major issues, not least the fact that you can't index sensibly by time
> without impacting (or working around) patents)
>
> NB. I'm all in favour of making websites cacheable where
> possible/reasonable
> since it's a really, really, good idea, but it's just worth remembering
> we're
> looking at outlying values regarding a non-HTTP protocol.
>
>
> Michael.
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
> Unofficial
> list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>



-- 
Please email me back if you need any more help.

Brian Butterworth
http://www.ukfree.tv

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Michael]

On Saturday 12 April 2008 05:57:49 Brian Butterworth wrote:
> If it were all doing using HTTP it would be easily cached, of course, as
> you can do this with a proxy server, either a configured-in one as used on
> corporate and educational networks, or as a transparent proxy.

Ignores the fact that most caches will not cache objects over a certain size. 
(The maximum usually based on average object size, which is dominated by
small images and HTML). Also it depends on the purpose the cache is there
for - speed or bandwidth savings, and even then you still need a maximum, it's
just where you set it which will vary.

There are algorithms that will take into account object size and popularity 
(combination of LFU & GDS approaches), but they're still mainly targetted at 
object size distributions below the 90-95th percentile.

You can use whitelisting, but the maintainence overhead of such a whitelist
can become quite spectacular, and can depend on the purpose behind
caching in their network ((peceived) speed saving or bandwidth saving[1]).
Thus, whitelisting or changing the maximum object size can massively
impacts the effectiveness of the cache infrastructure as a whole.

   [1] These two do not always correlate, since one is based on percentiles,
the other is absolute figures.

(I worked for the best part 5 years looking at this sort of stuff in great 
detail in both theoretical and (a wide variety of) operational environments, 
so I'm summarising :-)

Also, none of this is any use for streaming over RTMP. (and HTTP streaming
has major issues, not least the fact that you can't index sensibly by time
without impacting (or working around) patents)

NB. I'm all in favour of making websites cacheable where possible/reasonable 
since it's a really, really, good idea, but it's just worth remembering we're 
looking at outlying values regarding a non-HTTP protocol.


Michael.
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Peter Bowyer]

On 11/04/2008, David Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 16:13 +0100, Peter Bowyer wrote:
>  > On 09/04/2008, David McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > Dave Crossland wrote:
>  > >
>  > > > The BBC-vs-ISP bandwidth issue could be resolved by the BBC dropping
>  > > > DRM so that the ISPs can cache the data.
>  > >
>  > > The ISPs who are anticipating financial hardship are more concerned with 
> the
>  > > cost of bandwidth between their network and home ADSL users, and _not_ 
> between
>  > > their network and the outside world.
>  > >
>  > > This is because they are charged a metered rate by BT for all the 
> traffic they
>  > > relay over BT's ADSL network.
>  > >
>  > > Thus adding data caches to their network wouldn't solve their immediate 
> problem.
>  >
>  > Indeed. But BTW could do it for the benefit of all of its resellers.
>
>
> It doesn't work like that. You have a pipe which runs all the way
>  through BT's network to your ISP. Even if the content in question were
>  somehow cached on a machine in your local exchange, that doesn't really
>  help because it doesn't see your IP traffic at all. Traffic from that
>  cache to you would go all the way out to your ISP and then back down
>  your pipe.

Yeah, I know how it works - 5 years in broadband OSS/BSS.

I agree that the current L2TP architecture wouldn't support it, but
there's nothing stopping  BTW making it so if there was a business
case for it. In fact, since IPStream is a regulated product, the
industry could put forward a statement of requirements and have them
consider it. That would scale way better than each iddly-piddly
IPStream reseller doing the caching themselves.

Peter
-- 
Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Brian Butterworth]

On 12/04/2008, David Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 16:13 +0100, Peter Bowyer wrote:
> > On 09/04/2008, David McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Dave Crossland wrote:
> > >
> > > > The BBC-vs-ISP bandwidth issue could be resolved by the BBC dropping
> > > > DRM so that the ISPs can cache the data.
> > >
> > > The ISPs who are anticipating financial hardship are more concerned
> with the
> > > cost of bandwidth between their network and home ADSL users, and _not_
> between
> > > their network and the outside world.
> > >
> > > This is because they are charged a metered rate by BT for all the
> traffic they
> > > relay over BT's ADSL network.
> > >
> > > Thus adding data caches to their network wouldn't solve their
> immediate problem.
> >
> > Indeed. But BTW could do it for the benefit of all of its resellers.
>
> It doesn't work like that. You have a pipe which runs all the way
> through BT's network to your ISP. Even if the content in question were
> somehow cached on a machine in your local exchange, that doesn't really
> help because it doesn't see your IP traffic at all. Traffic from that
> cache to you would go all the way out to your ISP and then back down
> your pipe.


If it were all doing using HTTP it would be easily cached, of course, as you
can do this with a proxy server, either a configured-in one as used on
corporate and educational networks, or as a transparent proxy.

It's the easiest thing in the world to control the cache, as you just add in
a few lines to the HTTP header, viz in PHP:

Header ("Last-Modified: " . gmdate("D, d M Y H:i:s",mktime (0,0,0,1,1,2000))
. " GMT");  // Date in the past
Header ("Expires: Mon, 26 Jul 2040 05:00:00 GMT");  // In other words...
never expire it
Header ("Cache-Control: max-age=1000, s-maxage=100, public"); //

I have to say that I am not a fan of transparent proxy caches, but if the
ISP are going to moan about BBC 'streaming' then there is a very simple
three line (plus proxy server) fix...

--
> dwmw2
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
> Unofficial
> list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>



-- 
Please email me back if you need any more help.

Brian Butterworth
http://www.ukfree.tv

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[David Woodhouse]

On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 16:13 +0100, Peter Bowyer wrote:
> On 09/04/2008, David McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Dave Crossland wrote:
> >
> > > The BBC-vs-ISP bandwidth issue could be resolved by the BBC dropping
> > > DRM so that the ISPs can cache the data.
> >
> > The ISPs who are anticipating financial hardship are more concerned with the
> > cost of bandwidth between their network and home ADSL users, and _not_ 
> > between
> > their network and the outside world.
> >
> > This is because they are charged a metered rate by BT for all the traffic 
> > they
> > relay over BT's ADSL network.
> >
> > Thus adding data caches to their network wouldn't solve their immediate 
> > problem.
> 
> Indeed. But BTW could do it for the benefit of all of its resellers.

It doesn't work like that. You have a pipe which runs all the way
through BT's network to your ISP. Even if the content in question were
somehow cached on a machine in your local exchange, that doesn't really
help because it doesn't see your IP traffic at all. Traffic from that
cache to you would go all the way out to your ISP and then back down
your pipe.


-- 
dwmw2

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Andrew Shearer]

Damned fine link Derek.

Although I don't have a Wii yet, I've hacked up iPlayerlist to have a
Wii only templates.  Its in the early stages, but you might want to
give it a try.

Thanks to Sean Lange, who suggested adding a pure black background for
those on TVs where the iPlayer flash video doesn't fill the entire
screen.  Apparently there is an issue with the Auto-zoom, but Ill work
on that when I get my hands on one of those blessed machines.

Just point the Wii at http://iplayerlist.mibly.com or switch you user
agent to a Wii one ;)

Regards,
Andy


On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:21 PM, Derek Harvie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2008, at 18:26, Tom Loosemore wrote:
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > > am on wii now and can confirm that iplayer works. ish.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I gave it a try earlier and I think it works rather well :-)
> > >
> > > Zoom in once with the "+" button and press "1" to get rid of the menu
> bar
> > > means that it fits my TV screen perfectly!
> > >
> >
> > aha... that's the info I was lacking... thank you...
> >
>
>  The people at iPlayer thought users would ask that and prepared a help page
> for it, despite it being an Wii Opera thing:
>
>  http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/streaming_programmes/wii
>
>
>  Not that it's easy to find their help pages...
>
>
>  -
>  Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
> Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Derek Harvie]

On 10 Apr 2008, at 18:26, Tom Loosemore wrote:


am on wii now and can confirm that iplayer works. ish.



I gave it a try earlier and I think it works rather well :-)

Zoom in once with the "+" button and press "1" to get rid of the  
menu bar

means that it fits my TV screen perfectly!


aha... that's the info I was lacking... thank you...


The people at iPlayer thought users would ask that and prepared a help  
page for it, despite it being an Wii Opera thing:


http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/streaming_programmes/wii


Not that it's easy to find their help pages...
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Andy]

Billy Abbott wrote:
 > Does anyone know if the BBC have something exclusive going with Nintendo
> or if there is a technical reason why this wouldn't work with the PS3?

Perhaps this article from Digital Spy is may help?


Andy
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Tom Loosemore]

> > am on wii now and can confirm that iplayer works. ish.
> >
>
>  I gave it a try earlier and I think it works rather well :-)
>
>  Zoom in once with the "+" button and press "1" to get rid of the menu bar
> means that it fits my TV screen perfectly!

aha... that's the info I was lacking... thank you...

-t
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Billy Abbott]

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Andy wrote:


In case anyone hasn't seen the news:



Does anyone know if the BBC have something exclusive going with Nintendo 
or if there is a technical reason why this wouldn't work with the PS3? As 
far as I know the PS3 only supports flash 7 (for similar reasons to the 
wii I'd guess) so it could well be a candidate for being able to easily 
use this as well.


I don't have a ps3, but my office mate is still searching for reasons why 
it's better than my xbox :)


--billy

--
http://billyabbott.co.uk
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Dogsbody]

am on wii now and can confirm that iplayer works. ish.


I gave it a try earlier and I think it works rather well :-)

Zoom in once with the "+" button and press "1" to get rid of the menu 
bar means that it fits my TV screen perfectly!


Yeah the image isn't HD or anything but I watch an episode of Top Gear 
with fast moving cars and it coped more that adequately which will 
certainly keep SWMBO happy!


As I understand it the Wii isn't a very powerful box at all so if 
iplayer runs well on this I can see it running well on a lot of things.


I would love to try running this Flash 7 version of the player on my 
Nokia N800 to see if it's any smoother Wanders off to Google the 
Wii User-Agent string...


Dan
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Tom Loosemore]

On 09/04/2008, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Oh that's it. I need a wii now!
>
>  The javascript fun you can have with wiis is awesome. I had a little hack
> around with them before (oddly within iplayerlist).  Its all on the opera
> website.
>
>  Think I might have to pursue this a little further.
>
>
>  On 9 Apr 2008, at 15:04, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > In case anyone hasn't seen the news:
> > 
> >
> > Discuss.
> >
> > Andy
> > -
> > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit
> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
> >
>  -
>  Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit
> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

am on wii now and can confirm that iplayer works. ish.
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Andy]

Oh that's it. I need a wii now!

The javascript fun you can have with wiis is awesome. I had a little  
hack around with them before (oddly within iplayerlist).  Its all on  
the opera website.


Think I might have to pursue this a little further.

On 9 Apr 2008, at 15:04, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


In case anyone hasn't seen the news:


Discuss.

Andy
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,  
please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html 
.  Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Dave Crossland]

On 09/04/2008, Andrew Bowden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > 
>
>  http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/04/bbc_iplayer_on_wii.html

Interesting; when the BBC publishes Flash 7 SWFs, Gnash is very likely
to support them very soon - if not already (given a simple Firefox
extension to fool the BBC into serving the Flash 7 SWF instead of a
cute "we hate your freedom" message :-)

-- 
Regards,
Dave
Personal opinion only!
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Iain Wallace]

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In case anyone hasn't seen the news:
>  
>
>  Discuss.
>
>  Andy

Great! Finally I can watch iPlayer shows on my TV without a hack! ;)

The beebhack wiki has been updated with a couple of technical notes -
it's basically just swapping out for a Flash 7 compatible stream based
on the Opera for Wii user agent - not as game-changing as the iPhone
version.

Iain
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Peter Bowyer]

On 09/04/2008, David McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave Crossland wrote:
>
> > The BBC-vs-ISP bandwidth issue could be resolved by the BBC dropping
> > DRM so that the ISPs can cache the data.
>
> The ISPs who are anticipating financial hardship are more concerned with the
> cost of bandwidth between their network and home ADSL users, and _not_ between
> their network and the outside world.
>
> This is because they are charged a metered rate by BT for all the traffic they
> relay over BT's ADSL network.
>
> Thus adding data caches to their network wouldn't solve their immediate 
> problem.

Indeed. But BTW could do it for the benefit of all of its resellers.

Peter

-- 
Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Dave Crossland]

On 09/04/2008, David McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave Crossland wrote:
>
>  > The BBC-vs-ISP bandwidth issue could be resolved by the BBC dropping
>  > DRM so that the ISPs can cache the data.
>
> The ISPs who are anticipating financial hardship are more concerned with the
>  cost of bandwidth between their network and home ADSL users, and _not_ 
> between
>  their network and the outside world.
>  This is because they are charged a metered rate by BT for all the traffic 
> they
>  relay over BT's ADSL network.
>  Thus adding data caches to their network wouldn't solve their immediate 
> problem.

Ah okay, thanks for clarifying this! :-)

I guess this is why the BBC CDN rumours have remained vapourware.

-- 
Regards,
Dave
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Billy Abbott]

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Dave Crossland wrote:


On 09/04/2008, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

In case anyone hasn't seen the news:
 

 Discuss.


I believe you can install GNU+Linux on a Wii, and then you can use the
MPEG4 streams to watch iPlayer content with free software on a Wii.


Currently, as far as I'm aware, there is no way to install anything unless 
you have a modded Wii. There's work on a LiveCD, but I think that's for 
modded ones as well (http://www.wiili.org has a bunch of details).


I would be very happy to be proved wrong.

--billy

--
Billy Abbott
http://billyabbott.co.uk
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Billy Abbott]

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Andy wrote:


In case anyone hasn't seen the news:



My officemate just asked me if it worked on the PS3, as it also runs flash 
7. I suspect the answer is no, but that shouldn't be much work on the 
beeb's side.


The thing that caught my eye is the last paragraph in Anthony Rose's blog 
post 
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/04/bbc_iplayer_on_wii.html)


"As iPlayer usage on Wii takes off, we'll consider creating an optimised 
version of the iPlayer for Wii. Hopefully this won.t require people to 
shell out for the Internet Channel, and which will provide an optimized 
browsing and playback experience, perhaps even as a dedicated BBC iPlayer 
channel on Wii."


The BBC building a Wii specific app for the iPlayer? I don't know of 
anyone other than Nintendo who has any channels released at the moment, 
so this could be a rather good thing in general.


--billy
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[David McBride]

Dave Crossland wrote:

> The BBC-vs-ISP bandwidth issue could be resolved by the BBC dropping
> DRM so that the ISPs can cache the data.

The ISPs who are anticipating financial hardship are more concerned with the
cost of bandwidth between their network and home ADSL users, and _not_ between
their network and the outside world.

This is because they are charged a metered rate by BT for all the traffic they
relay over BT's ADSL network.

Thus adding data caches to their network wouldn't solve their immediate problem.

Cheers,
David
-- 
David McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Department of Computing, Imperial College, London



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

RE: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

Anthony Rose has blogged about this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/04/bbc_iplayer_on_wii.html 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: 09 April 2008 15:05
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

In case anyone hasn't seen the news:


Discuss.

Andy
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
please visit
http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Unofficial list archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

RE: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Andrew Bowden]

> In case anyone hasn't seen the news:
> 

There's also an interesting post on the BBC Internet Blog about the
technical issues.  Well worth a read.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/04/bbc_iplayer_on_wii.html

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Dogsbody]

In case anyone hasn't seen the news:



LOL, my GF sent this to me almost as soon as the news release came 
out! she wants this so badly!


It says... "Early versions of the service will be available from 9 
April but more polished software will be released as the service is 
developed." ... anyone know how to get hold of an early version??


Dan
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Peter Bowyer]

On 09/04/2008, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In case anyone hasn't seen the news:
> 

I was interested in this bit:

"It is only available in the UK to licence-fee payers. "

Presumably that isn't what Huggers said, and has been journo-ified?

Peter

-- 
Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

Re: [backstage] iPlayer in Wii

[Dave Crossland]

On 09/04/2008, Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In case anyone hasn't seen the news:
>  
>
>  Discuss.

I believe you can install GNU+Linux on a Wii, and then you can use the
MPEG4 streams to watch iPlayer content with free software on a Wii.

The BBC-vs-ISP bandwidth issue could be resolved by the BBC dropping
DRM so that the ISPs can cache the data.

-- 
Regards,
Dave
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/