Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
On 17 Apr 2007, at 23:47, Nic James Ferrier wrote: Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 10:31 +0100 17/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: I think it can scale if they open up the queuing system and stick to charging for SMS's. I think Kosso has the right idea - http://kosso.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/os-twitter-and-services/ How will charging affect packets going through routers? Charging is not necessary... it just has to be designed correctly. Twitter is just in need of horizontal scaling. Split the namespace across many servers and it would scale. No problem. Which is why I don't understand why they're having some problems. Well, I do. It's because they're using rails. If you do that it suggests you don't know what you're doing. [sits back and waits for everyone to explode with rage] Nic, Without being the flag bearer of the rails brigade [1], that they are using Rails has nothing significant to do with their problems - they'd exist with any platform in use. It's fortunate that it's not one that would require rigmarole to upgrade - i'd hate to see twitter having to amend their Volume License Agreement every week. I don't know what the actual technical competence of this list is, but aside from joining-the-dots with mashups, I'm yet to see much which is truly groundbreaking, impressive and unique - which makes this conversation so empty and pointless. It's true: Twitter hasn't really done anything magical, other than connecting mobile, im and web in a tangled mesh of ubiquity. Sure, there are problems - from design to use: bear in mind that the twitter crew's original mantra was for a tool to tell friends where they are and what they are up to (the sort of thing that jaiku et al are really honing in on, by demoting the conversation). So as to your suggestion - adding more servers. It's an easy fix when you have a service generating income. Twitter, currently, does not. Thus who keeps paying for the machines? Who keeps paying for the text messages - twitter's SMS bill is large enough to get the attention of any provider out there. Developers who understand scalability know that it's often a plumbing problem: as soon as one pipe is capped or uncovered, another leak starts. You constantly have to uncover and release pressure until the system is in balance. Right now twitter is struggling because it's run out of compute cycles; next week it may be the database. Twitter currently has a traffic rank in the top 500 websites - and is completely dynamic. Google currently indexes over 220, 000 pages from twitter.com. It's not a trivial problem. Its not something that a few more servers will fix: twitter needs to come up with new architecture such that it can manage the service properly. In reality this means transitioning to a core twitter centric codebase - ie, do exactly as amazon, ebay and others have done: replace the web scripting language they prototyped in and roll their own, where it makes sense. So hop off the language hate bandwagon, because no-one cares. Instead, add something constructive. Sincerely - James Cox [1] Seriously, I really don't give a crap what platform you prefer. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
At 23:47 +0100 17/4/07, Nic James Ferrier wrote: Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 10:31 +0100 17/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: I think it can scale if they open up the queuing system and stick to charging for SMS's. I think Kosso has the right idea - http://kosso.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/os-twitter-and-services/ --- I don't see how twitter can scale And that was one of my first twitter psotings! Gordo - How will charging affect packets going through routers? Charging is not necessary... it just has to be designed correctly. Twitter is just in need of horizontal scaling. Split the namespace across many servers and it would scale. No problem. Which is why I don't understand why they're having some problems. Well, I do. It's because they're using rails. If you do that it suggests you don't know what you're doing. [sits back and waits for everyone to explode with rage] -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk Ruby on Rails == Smoke on Mirrors? Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
James Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So hop off the language hate bandwagon, because no-one cares. Instead, add something constructive. Actually, I wasn't on the language hate bandwagon. I was on the frameworks hate bandwagon. Down with rails! Up with some random other thing! Come on! You're not seriously suggesting this thread is any more ill-informed, ridiculous or downright silly than some others are you? -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
Twitter currently has a traffic rank in the top 500 websites Netcraft rate Twitter at position 46,867 - and is completely dynamic. Google currently indexes over 220, 000 pages from twitter.com. It's not a trivial problem. Its not something that a few more servers will fix: twitter needs to come up with new architecture such that it can manage the service properly. In reality this means transitioning to a core twitter centric codebase - ie, do exactly as amazon, ebay and others have done: replace the web scripting language they prototyped in and roll their own, where it makes sense. So hop off the language hate bandwagon, because no-one cares. Instead, add something constructive. Sincerely - James Cox [1] Seriously, I really don't give a crap what platform you prefer. I started learning about Ruby on Rails. Then I found out it is a framework. So I stopped. Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
James Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So hop off the language hate bandwagon, because no-one cares. Instead, add something constructive. Actually, I wasn't on the language hate bandwagon. I was on the frameworks hate bandwagon. Down with rails! Up with some random other thing! Come on! You're not seriously suggesting this thread is any more ill-informed, ridiculous or downright silly than some others are you? - There's huge value in Frameworks. No matter what you may think about Rails, you can't call them all bad. :) Ian - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I started learning about Ruby on Rails. Then I found out it is a framework. So I stopped. EURGH! You got some ON YOU! Look! there! on your shoulder! -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk [Did no one tell you it was exclamation mark day?] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
On 18 Apr 2007, at 15:38, Nic James Ferrier wrote: James Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So hop off the language hate bandwagon, because no-one cares. Instead, add something constructive. Actually, I wasn't on the language hate bandwagon. I was on the frameworks hate bandwagon. my mistake, my rage had built up to overly intense levels such that my cursory edit didn't spot this school boy error. :) Down with rails! Up with some random other thing! Come on! You're not seriously suggesting this thread is any more ill-informed, ridiculous or downright silly than some others are you? No, i'm saying that the signal v. noise ratio has decreased and it's time we should talk about stuff that's really interesting. Such as fixing the bbc's content opacity, or ensuring that I win the lottery this weekend - come on, one of you lot must know who the independent adjudicator is... - james - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
fixing the bbc's content opacity, or ensuring that I win the lottery this weekend - come on, one of you lot must know who the independent adjudicator is... it's a guy called Random, fortunately he doesn't live on this planet. Otu - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
I would say it needs a good dollop of cash for equipment development and hosting As for languages - have to stress from experience it is good architecture design, people and strategy which leads to performance not anything to do with Languages themselves. Even Application Frameworks ( which do have a habit of being a bit slow ) if they are implemented consistantly then at least a caching layer can be built in front or behind them to scale. Generally the Amazons etc of this world do a code rewrite when they find crunches in the development process - when you scale your development staff from 10's to 100's you have to look carefully at the tools sets, frameworks and processes - and some of the best do happen to be language specific. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Cox Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:17 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever] On 17 Apr 2007, at 23:47, Nic James Ferrier wrote: Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 10:31 +0100 17/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: I think it can scale if they open up the queuing system and stick to charging for SMS's. I think Kosso has the right idea - http://kosso.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/os-twitter-and-services/ How will charging affect packets going through routers? Charging is not necessary... it just has to be designed correctly. Twitter is just in need of horizontal scaling. Split the namespace across many servers and it would scale. No problem. Which is why I don't understand why they're having some problems. Well, I do. It's because they're using rails. If you do that it suggests you don't know what you're doing. [sits back and waits for everyone to explode with rage] Nic, Without being the flag bearer of the rails brigade [1], that they are using Rails has nothing significant to do with their problems - they'd exist with any platform in use. It's fortunate that it's not one that would require rigmarole to upgrade - i'd hate to see twitter having to amend their Volume License Agreement every week. I don't know what the actual technical competence of this list is, but aside from joining-the-dots with mashups, I'm yet to see much which is truly groundbreaking, impressive and unique - which makes this conversation so empty and pointless. It's true: Twitter hasn't really done anything magical, other than connecting mobile, im and web in a tangled mesh of ubiquity. Sure, there are problems - from design to use: bear in mind that the twitter crew's original mantra was for a tool to tell friends where they are and what they are up to (the sort of thing that jaiku et al are really honing in on, by demoting the conversation). So as to your suggestion - adding more servers. It's an easy fix when you have a service generating income. Twitter, currently, does not. Thus who keeps paying for the machines? Who keeps paying for the text messages - twitter's SMS bill is large enough to get the attention of any provider out there. Developers who understand scalability know that it's often a plumbing problem: as soon as one pipe is capped or uncovered, another leak starts. You constantly have to uncover and release pressure until the system is in balance. Right now twitter is struggling because it's run out of compute cycles; next week it may be the database. Twitter currently has a traffic rank in the top 500 websites - and is completely dynamic. Google currently indexes over 220, 000 pages from twitter.com. It's not a trivial problem. Its not something that a few more servers will fix: twitter needs to come up with new architecture such that it can manage the service properly. In reality this means transitioning to a core twitter centric codebase - ie, do exactly as amazon, ebay and others have done: replace the web scripting language they prototyped in and roll their own, where it makes sense. So hop off the language hate bandwagon, because no-one cares. Instead, add something constructive. Sincerely - James Cox [1] Seriously, I really don't give a crap what platform you prefer. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] BBC Archive trial
Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. There is no press launch or anything like that yet, so your really the first people to find out about this. So do it today before the 20,000 places disappear. Cheers, Ian Forrester Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC4 B4, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 02080083965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. Euuwww... that was built with some framework wasn't it? [bwa ha ha ha ha... and runs away laughing] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
On 18/04/07, Nic James Ferrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. Euuwww... that was built with some framework wasn't it? It's some off-the-shelf online survey framework - several of the big market research houses use it. Rather a lot of personal information needed for registration, I thought Peter -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
At 15:48 +0100 18/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: - There's huge value in Frameworks. No matter what you may think about Rails, you can't call them all bad. :) Ian A framework is a higher level of abstraction. Most of the time, there come a point where you want to poke around under the bonnet and fine tune the engine Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
At 15:52 +0100 18/4/07, Nic James Ferrier wrote: Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I started learning about Ruby on Rails. Then I found out it is a framework. So I stopped. EURGH! You got some ON YOU! Look! there! on your shoulder! Looks like a framework, smells like a framework, tastes like a framework thank goodness I didn't tread in it! Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
At 16:39 +0100 18/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. Many thanks for your time - unfortunately due to the specifications of this trial, we are not currently aiming to recruit past or present BBC staff. Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] [Fwd: Fwd: Twitter Fever]
At 17:41 +0100 18/4/07, Gordon Joly wrote: At 15:48 +0100 18/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: - There's huge value in Frameworks. No matter what you may think about Rails, you can't call them all bad. :) Ian A framework is a higher level of abstraction. Most of the time, there come a point where you want to poke around under the bonnet and fine tune the engine Occasionally. But mostly, abstraction is what good engineering is all about. What more is an operating system than a higher level of abstraction from handling memory management and scheduling in your own code? What more is a CPU architecture than an abstraction from a set of transistors? Tim -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Real-audio tagging
Hi all - (newbie question) - is this the right place to ask - what isthe infrastructure that is used to support the listen-again real-audiostreams? Is there any plan to insert program-related tag meta info intothe real-audio streams? Or - given the infrastructure that is in place - is it possible? Is itlow on the totem pole of priorities? Thanks, Derryck NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITYThis communication including any information transmitted with it is intended only for the use of the addressees and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you receive this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. If the above disclaimer is not properly readable, it can be found at www.td.com/legal AVERTISSEMENT DE CONFIDENTIALITE Ce courriel, ainsi que tout renseignement ci-inclus, destiné uniquement aux destinataires susmentionnés, est confidentiel. Si vous nêtes pas le destinataire prévu ou un agent responsable de la livraison de ce courriel, tout examen, divulgation, copie, impression, reproduction, distribution, ou autre utilisation dune partie de ce courriel est strictement interdit de même que toute intervention ou abstraction à cet égard. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur ou sans autorisation, veuillez en aviser immédiatement lexpéditeur par retour de courriel ou par un autre moyen et supprimer immédiatement cette communication entière de tout système électronique. Si l'avis de non-responsabilité ci-dessus n'est pas lisible, vous pouvez le consulter à www.td.com/francais/legale - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Ian - any idea how this trial is going to be delivered? any tech specs on the trial itself? i'm thinking scary black boxes and dial groups. wait, that was nielson. --- :) On 18 Apr 2007, at 16:39, Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. There is no press launch or anything like that yet, so your really the first people to find out about this. So do it today before the 20,000 places disappear. Cheers, Ian Forrester Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC4 B4, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 02080083965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- James Cox, Internet Consultant t: 07968 349990 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.imajes.info/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
On 18/04/07, Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 16:39 +0100 18/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. Many thanks for your time - unfortunately due to the specifications of this trial, we are not currently aiming to recruit past or present BBC staff. !!! yep, and quite right too, if the BBC Trust's decision making is not just impartial but seen to be impartial. Allowing BBC staff past or present to join put the latter at risk, since the data from this trial will form the core empirical input into the BBC Trust's Public Value Test on the Open Archive (which is separate from iPlayer 'catch up' Public Value Test, the decision on which is due soonish. That's why they need so much personal data, to make sure the sample is balanced across a whole series of dimensions to reflect the UK population as a whole (hence UK only) We're also gonna release 50 hours for download by anyone in the UK, whether on the trial or not. - oh, and it's all non-DRM'd, albeit geo-IP'd
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
it'll be delivered via the internet... using that funny HTML stuff (streamed in Real/WM I expect, cos that'll make it easier to set up - it is a trial after all...). The actual site itself is very nice, IMHO (not that I had anything to do with it!) On 18/04/07, James Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian - any idea how this trial is going to be delivered? any tech specs on the trial itself? i'm thinking scary black boxes and dial groups. wait, that was nielson. --- :) On 18 Apr 2007, at 16:39, Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. There is no press launch or anything like that yet, so your really the first people to find out about this. So do it today before the 20,000 places disappear. Cheers, Ian Forrester Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC4 B4, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 02080083965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- *James Cox, *Internet Consultant t: 07968 349990 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.imajes.info/
RE: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Here's what I got: Many thanks for your time - unfortunately you did not meet the recruitment criteria for this trial. Is there a list of recruitment criteria? Cheers... ...t.s. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester Sent: 18 April 2007 16:40 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] BBC Archive trial Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. There is no press launch or anything like that yet, so your really the first people to find out about this. So do it today before the 20,000 places disappear. Cheers, Ian Forrester Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC4 B4, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 02080083965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ * To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html *
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Hey Tom, By making it UK centric, isn't the BBC missing the public values of an awful lot of us that no longer inhabit that island all year? Or are there pages written in Polish etc, just to please the total UK population. I wish the Trust would accept BBC internet presence for what it is, a part of the World-Wide Web. (Not sarcastic, as I am a firm believer that I am English wherever I happen to be, especially as a UK tax payer.) Regards RichE On 18 Apr 2007, at 19:30, Tom Loosemore wrote: On 18/04/07, Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 16:39 +0100 18/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. Many thanks for your time - unfortunately due to the specifications of this trial, we are not currently aiming to recruit past or present BBC staff. !!! yep, and quite right too, if the BBC Trust's decision making is not just impartial but seen to be impartial. Allowing BBC staff past or present to join put the latter at risk, since the data from this trial will form the core empirical input into the BBC Trust's Public Value Test on the Open Archive (which is separate from iPlayer 'catch up' Public Value Test, the decision on which is due soonish. That's why they need so much personal data, to make sure the sample is balanced across a whole series of dimensions to reflect the UK population as a whole (hence UK only) We're also gonna release 50 hours for download by anyone in the UK, whether on the trial or not. - oh, and it's all non-DRM'd, albeit geo-IP'd
RE: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Many thanks for your time - unfortunately you did not meet the recruitment criteria for this trial. Ditto me, how could I possibly not qualify? I'm 21, I have a fast broadband connection, I also am an active mobile data user with a flatrate package and I'm in that perfect area of candidacy age-wise (18-24 male bracket)... Or maybe that's why I wasn't accepted... Maybe I should say I'm a 74 year old grandma of 4? -Original Message- From: Toni Sant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 April 2007 19:40 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] BBC Archive trial Here's what I got: Many thanks for your time - unfortunately you did not meet the recruitment criteria for this trial. Is there a list of recruitment criteria? Cheers... ...t.s. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester Sent: 18 April 2007 16:40 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] BBC Archive trial Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. There is no press launch or anything like that yet, so your really the first people to find out about this. So do it today before the 20,000 places disappear. Cheers, Ian Forrester Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC4 B4, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 02080083965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
And the same here . I got kicked off after about 60% when I said I was male. hhm. Oh well, perhaps 35-44 age bracket is already full. On 18 Apr 2007, at 19:40, Toni Sant wrote: Here's what I got: Many thanks for your time - unfortunately you did not meet the recruitment criteria for this trial. Is there a list of recruitment criteria? Cheers... ...t.s. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester Sent: 18 April 2007 16:40 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] BBC Archive trial Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. There is no press launch or anything like that yet, so your really the first people to find out about this. So do it today before the 20,000 places disappear. Cheers, Ian Forrester Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC4 B4, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 02080083965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ** *** To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html ** *** - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
I'm in-- i think? On 18 Apr 2007, at 20:55, Richard P Edwards wrote: And the same here . I got kicked off after about 60% when I said I was male. hhm. Oh well, perhaps 35-44 age bracket is already full. On 18 Apr 2007, at 19:40, Toni Sant wrote: Here's what I got: Many thanks for your time - unfortunately you did not meet the recruitment criteria for this trial. Is there a list of recruitment criteria? Cheers... ...t.s. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester Sent: 18 April 2007 16:40 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] BBC Archive trial Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. There is no press launch or anything like that yet, so your really the first people to find out about this. So do it today before the 20,000 places disappear. Cheers, Ian Forrester Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC4 B4, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 02080083965 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ * To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html * - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- James Cox, Internet Consultant t: 07968 349990 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.imajes.info/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
On 18 Apr 2007, at 19:34, Tom Loosemore wrote: it'll be delivered via the internet... using that funny HTML stuff (streamed in Real/WM I expect, cos that'll make it easier to set up - it is a trial after all...). The actual site itself is very nice, IMHO (not that I had anything to do with it!) Shame. I love the idea of digging into blackadder and jeeves and wooster and all the other comedy greats -- but getting them in a format that is at least somewhat representative of their quality. Sucks that I'd have to stream it certainly encoding into divx or mpg would show some understanding of the marketspace. - james - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Hey, that seems more legitimate than being denied progress for answering 'male' to the gender question! -Eamonn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gordon Joly Sent: 18 April 2007 17:44 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Cc: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk; Ian Forrester Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial At 16:39 +0100 18/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. Many thanks for your time - unfortunately due to the specifications of this trial, we are not currently aiming to recruit past or present BBC staff. Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Vocab is used for English - Somali on our South East Wales site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southeast/sites/help/pages/somali.shtml (Cardiff has a large Somali population) Chris On 18 Apr 2007, at 20:04, Tom Loosemore wrote: The Trust have to base all their decisions on the needs of UK licence fee payers, first and foremost. But yes, a global internet, that challenges lots of assumptions that previously were not even explicity. Why not write to them and tell 'em - seriously ,it's their job to hear views from people who pay the licence fee. http:// www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/ PS There are 100,000 of pages in welsh, gaelic etc. on bbc.co.uk BTW... and there will be a welsh version of iPlayer In fact one of the coolest hidden gems of the BBC is bbc.co.uk/vocab , which could very easily be adapted for polish just by adding dictionary... This is one of the apps I'd personally like to Open Source... or offer as an API... On 18/04/07, Richard P Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Tom, By making it UK centric, isn't the BBC missing the public values of an awful lot of us that no longer inhabit that island all year? Or are there pages written in Polish etc, just to please the total UK population. I wish the Trust would accept BBC internet presence for what it is, a part of the World-Wide Web. (Not sarcastic, as I am a firm believer that I am English wherever I happen to be, especially as a UK tax payer.) Regards RichE On 18 Apr 2007, at 19:30, Tom Loosemore wrote: On 18/04/07, Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 16:39 +0100 18/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. Many thanks for your time - unfortunately due to the specifications of this trial, we are not currently aiming to recruit past or present BBC staff. !!! yep, and quite right too, if the BBC Trust's decision making is not just impartial but seen to be impartial. Allowing BBC staff past or present to join put the latter at risk, since the data from this trial will form the core empirical input into the BBC Trust's Public Value Test on the Open Archive (which is separate from iPlayer 'catch up' Public Value Test, the decision on which is due soonish. That's why they need so much personal data, to make sure the sample is balanced across a whole series of dimensions to reflect the UK population as a whole (hence UK only) We're also gonna release 50 hours for download by anyone in the UK, whether on the trial or not. - oh, and it's all non-DRM'd, albeit geo-IP'd
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Thanks Tom, I appreciate you suggestion, and will do. Vocab looks great. All the best RichE On 18 Apr 2007, at 20:04, Tom Loosemore wrote: The Trust have to base all their decisions on the needs of UK licence fee payers, first and foremost. But yes, a global internet, that challenges lots of assumptions that previously were not even explicity. Why not write to them and tell 'em - seriously ,it's their job to hear views from people who pay the licence fee. http:// www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/ PS There are 100,000 of pages in welsh, gaelic etc. on bbc.co.uk BTW... and there will be a welsh version of iPlayer In fact one of the coolest hidden gems of the BBC is bbc.co.uk/vocab , which could very easily be adapted for polish just by adding dictionary... This is one of the apps I'd personally like to Open Source... or offer as an API... On 18/04/07, Richard P Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Tom, By making it UK centric, isn't the BBC missing the public values of an awful lot of us that no longer inhabit that island all year? Or are there pages written in Polish etc, just to please the total UK population. I wish the Trust would accept BBC internet presence for what it is, a part of the World-Wide Web. (Not sarcastic, as I am a firm believer that I am English wherever I happen to be, especially as a UK tax payer.) Regards RichE On 18 Apr 2007, at 19:30, Tom Loosemore wrote: On 18/04/07, Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 16:39 +0100 18/4/07, Ian Forrester wrote: Hi All, Outside of the framework debate... The BBC Archive trial is getting closer to opening its doors. Exclusively I can now tell you that the register your interest form is up (16:30). So if your interested in taking part in the trial, go to http://bbc.co.uk/archive now. Many thanks for your time - unfortunately due to the specifications of this trial, we are not currently aiming to recruit past or present BBC staff. !!! yep, and quite right too, if the BBC Trust's decision making is not just impartial but seen to be impartial. Allowing BBC staff past or present to join put the latter at risk, since the data from this trial will form the core empirical input into the BBC Trust's Public Value Test on the Open Archive (which is separate from iPlayer 'catch up' Public Value Test, the decision on which is due soonish. That's why they need so much personal data, to make sure the sample is balanced across a whole series of dimensions to reflect the UK population as a whole (hence UK only) We're also gonna release 50 hours for download by anyone in the UK, whether on the trial or not. - oh, and it's all non-DRM'd, albeit geo-IP'd
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Shame. I love the idea of digging into blackadder and jeeves and wooster and all the other comedy greats -- but getting them in a format that is at least somewhat representative of their quality. Sucks that I'd have to stream it certainly encoding into divx or mpg would show some understanding of the marketspace. I'm not sure what you mean when you suggest encoding as divx or mpg would show an understanding of the marketplace. It is unfortunately not quite so simple. This is a limited, fixed length trial that will hopefully lead to a Public Value Test. Surely then it makes sense to make use of the BBC's existing Real/WM infrastructure to deliver the content? Hell, if we were going to show some understanding of the marketplace we'd do it all in Flash (which I still hope we do, TBH)
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
On 18 Apr 2007, at 22:51, Jonathan Tweed wrote: On 18 Apr 2007, at 20:03, James Cox wrote: On 18 Apr 2007, at 19:34, Tom Loosemore wrote: it'll be delivered via the internet... using that funny HTML stuff (streamed in Real/WM I expect, cos that'll make it easier to set up - it is a trial after all...). The actual site itself is very nice, IMHO (not that I had anything to do with it!) Shame. I love the idea of digging into blackadder and jeeves and wooster and all the other comedy greats -- but getting them in a format that is at least somewhat representative of their quality. Sucks that I'd have to stream it certainly encoding into divx or mpg would show some understanding of the marketspace. I'm not sure what you mean when you suggest encoding as divx or mpg would show an understanding of the marketplace. It is unfortunately not quite so simple. This is a limited, fixed length trial that will hopefully lead to a Public Value Test. Surely then it makes sense to make use of the BBC's existing Real/WM infrastructure to deliver the content? Fixed Length Trial? Public Value Test? (one has to love the steps to get something done. bravo for trying). Sure it makes sense - i'm not being overly grumpy, just assuming that most of the archive will have had to have been transcoded into something to enable reasonable online delivery; I presume it's stored in a petabyte archive store someplace, in some kind of raw or semi- raw format natively - thus encoding it --- getting it to real / wm is great- you have that, but adding in a divx/mpg transcoder so that a level of quality is preserved would be great. Why do i care? because whilst streaming is great for live events, imho... it's not really fantastic for enjoying the backlist. I hope that if this gets past the various layers of governance and gets budget to become a 'real' project, some effort into hooking up into bittorrent (I'm sure Bram could come up with some trickery to have certified users (ie, license fee payers ;)) only which would permit some kind of higher bandwidth product. That would almost be worth paying for. :) -- james Disclaimer: I work at the BBC but not on the Archive Trial. I do however work in a related area and have had limited access to a pre- trial version of the site. I really like what I've seen so far and would encourage anyone who is thinking about it to sign up for the trial before it fills up. My views are of course my own and not necessarily those of my employer. understood - and thanks for commenting.
