Re: All religions are one
Hi, Richard, At 08:40 PM 12/12/2003 -0800, you wrote: I cannot find anything in Ocean that gives All religions are one as a statement of the Faith. I did find fundamental oneness of religion in this statement by Shoghi Effendi. IMO, that is the basically the same as saying that religions have a common foundation. fundamental adj 1: serving as an essential component; 'a cardinal rule'; 'the central cause of the problem'; 'an example that was fundamental to the argument'; 'computers are fundamental to modern industrial structure' http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fundamental As I see it, the central cause or cardinal rule of the oneness of divine religions is their origin in the Will and Mind of God. Religions are many, but the reality of religion is one. (Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 126) What if a scholar who is not a Baha'i should throw that one at you? In my view, that is the basis for unity in diversity. In other words, the oneness of the revealed religions is found in their shared Source, God and His Will, not *necessarily* in their common teachings. If there is a universal template for religion, in God's Mind and Will, it is found in the reflected appearance of His Own Essence, through His Prophets, as the names and attributes of creation. To my understanding, the expression of these names and attributes in the human soul, sometimes called virtues, constitute the essential or spiritual laws and principles taught by all the Prophets. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.m.foster.name -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: All religions are one
"Richard H. Gravelly" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Finally, a Persian Baha'i answered my one question "How can one Prophet change the laws laid down by a succeeding Prophet?" He answered the question. I was ready to declare on the spot.
Just curious: What answer did he give?
Thanks,
Dave
Best wishes, Dave
" 8^{)
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
--
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st
news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public)
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
All Religions are One
I just posted the following on the interfaith Study Circle list: I think that the unqualified statement, All religions are one, is ludicrous on the face of it. However, if the statement can be broken down, it might be more manageable: 1. What is included by all? 2. What is our present definition of religion? 3. What, if anything, is the significance of are (as contrasted with *were* or *will be*)? 4. What is intended by one or oneness. Let me then suggest a qualified statement (though not a testable proposition): The Mind of God willed certain Prophets or Messengers to found religions. The religious teachings of those Prophets or Messengers are one in that, irrespective of their apparent differences, they all reflect God's intentionality or Will at a particular moment in history. Unless one specifies what one means by, All religions are one, one is left with a sentence which any reasonable person can (and should) refute. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.m.foster.name -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
RE: All Religions are One
Mark, In Native Studies, there is far less difficulty in understanding the notion of all religions being one. There's a story by Native writer Anna Lee Walters (Otoe-Missouria/Pawnee) in which various preachers try to explain to an older Native woman that their respective churches are the only right ones and that the others are wrong. The old grandma listens to one especially belligerent preacher lecturing on why she should not go to the other churches as well. The old woman looks at the young preacher and tells him, They're alla same. He gets especially heated, and then tells her that she knows nothing about religion. Then he tells her that her tribal traditions are evil and wrong. With that comment, the old woman's openness changes to sternness as he berates her traditions. Looking down at her grandchild, she then tells him very sternly and directly, No! It is you, young man, who do not understand. We have understood the sacred and the ways of creation since the beginning of time. Now, we accept Jesus and Christianity, too. You are wrong, for they are alla same! As he storms off, she then cheerily calls after hi, See you in church this Sunday, preacher... A colleague of mine who teaches out west said that for years she was mystified by so many of the Native people who, one day go to the Catholic church down the road, but the next month attend the Presbyterian mission to listen to the new minister, only then attending the Dutch Reformed church when visiting family, all interwoven with various tradition sacred ceremonies of their own tribes and clans. If we really want to understand the notion of the oneness of religion, I really believe that those who can articulate and explain this best are our indigenous sisters and brothers around the world who still embrace their traditional faiths in conjunction with organized religion. To see the sacred as one unfolding faith articulated by various Messengers of God since the beginning of time all around the world is much easier to understand once we step out of the boundaries of institutionalized religion. Perhaps this helps. If not, at least this brought to mind a delightful and profound story by Walters. By the way, I strongly recommend her novel _Ghost Singer_ to anyone interested in Native sacred traditions. Also Leslie Marmon Silko's _Ceremony_. Regards to everyone during this very busy week or so for those of us grading final papers and final exams! Susan Dr. Susan B. Brill de Ramirez, Professor of English Bradley University, Peoria, IL 61625 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; (309) 677-3888; fax (309) 677-2330 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:37 PM To: Baha'i Studies Subject: All Religions are One I just posted the following on the interfaith Study Circle list: I think that the unqualified statement, All religions are one, is ludicrous on the face of it. However, if the statement can be broken down, it might be more manageable: 1. What is included by all? 2. What is our present definition of religion? 3. What, if anything, is the significance of are (as contrasted with *were* or *will be*)? 4. What is intended by one or oneness. Let me then suggest a qualified statement (though not a testable proposition): The Mind of God willed certain Prophets or Messengers to found religions. The religious teachings of those Prophets or Messengers are one in that, irrespective of their apparent differences, they all reflect God's intentionality or Will at a particular moment in history. Unless one specifies what one means by, All religions are one, one is left with a sentence which any reasonable person can (and should) refute. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.m.foster.name -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public) -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
RE: All Religions are One
Hi, Susan, Nice hearing from you. At 01:17 PM 12/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: We have understood the sacred and the ways of creation since the beginning of time. Now, we accept Jesus and Christianity, too. You are wrong, for they are alla same! Sure, `Abdu'l-Baha discussed the intuitive recognition of truth. However, I don't think that makes the unqualified statement, All religions are one, any less ludicrous. IMO, there is little sense in having an academic discussion about religion or religions per se. These words are, or should be, far too general to be empirically useful to anyone. For my part, I prefer to speak of specific religious organizations. For instance, one of the possible questions on the final exam in my Introduction to Sociology class required students to examine their own religious organizations, or another with which they were familiar (or would need to become familiar for testing purposes), in relation to certain concepts, e.g., religious organizational typology, civil religion, fundamentalism, sacralization, secularization, and liberation theology. I insisted that they must not discuss Christianity (for instance) as a religious organization (since it isn't one). Instead, they would need to focus on the Church of the Nazarene, the United Methodists, Reform Judaism, etc. Religious organizations are *restructurated*, or formed and reformed, through a constant dialogue between existing structures (ideologies) and historically contextualized actors. The structure of Unitarian-Universalism, though rooted in American Protestantism, has more in common with Ethical Culture, which arose out of Reform Judaism, than do either of these organizations with the numerous orthodox or traditional expressions of Christianity or Judaism. Would the Native Americans you discussed recognized the oneness of her or his beliefs with Ethical Culture? What about with the Church of Satan or the Temple of Set? My point, in other words, is that the term, oneness of religion, on face value, makes little sense. In those few instances where `Abdu'l-Baha was reported to have used this phrase, He generally did so in connection with something like the foundation of Without a qualifier, this term is, IMO, nonsensical. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.m.foster.name -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: All religions are one
Richard, At 11:41 AM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: I am not certain that a reasonable person would or should offer to refute such a proposition before asking for an explanation of its meaning. Although, I must say, as Americans can be rather contentious at times, one should be prepared to offer an explanation. It might even be rare in most instances. However, among academics, these sorts of discussions take place all of the time. If one makes a statement, one should always be prepared to defend it. It appears that your analysis of it and your unfoldment of its meaning makes understanding the principle rather easy and useful. Thanks. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.m.foster.name -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: All religions are one
- Original Message - From: "Mark A. Foster" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Baha'i Studies" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 11:50 AM Subject: Re: All religions are one Richard, At 11:41 AM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: I am not certain that a "reasonable person" would or should offer to refute such a proposition before asking for an explanation of its meaning. Although, I must say, as Americans can be rather contentious at times, one should be prepared to offer an explanation. It might even be rare in most instances. However, among academics, these sorts of discussions take place all of the time. If one makes a statement, one should always be prepared to defend it. Or at the very least, explain its meaning, as you very competently did. It appears that your analysis of it and your unfoldment of its meaning makes understanding the principle rather easy and useful. Thanks. You are quite welcome. For many years, I could not get explanations of the Faith from Baha'is which related to Islam. Finally, a Persian Baha'i answered my one question "How can one Prophet change the laws laid down by a succeeding Prophet?" He answered the question. I was ready to declare on the spot. Richard Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.m.foster.name -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public) -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: All religions are one
Richard, At 01:00 PM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: Or at the very least, explain its meaning, as you very competently did. Thanks, or at least my understanding of it. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.m.foster.name -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: All Religions are One
Title: Re: All Religions are One Hello Mark, I think that as Bahais we reflect on lots of One's (especially the oneness of man, religion and God). While science and religion are two wings of man, the logician may have trouble jumping into the mystical ocean. I and the father are one. What can this mean? If you logically analyze it you can pull it apart. I went to an atheist site to get their view of a definition of religion and found the following: So far, the best definition of religion which I have seen can be found in The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. In the article on religion, it lists some characteristics of religions rather than simply declaring religion to be one thing or another. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the morereligious like it is: * Belief in supernatural beings (gods). * A distinction between sacred and profane objects. * Ritual acts focused on sacred objects. * A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods. * Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods. * Prayer and other forms of communication with gods. * A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it. * A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view. * A social group bound together by the above. Religion seems to me to have something to do with the heart of man reaching out to the infinite. Each person has his own unique religious view of life. An inner sanctuary (the Freqented Fane) where they commune with the mystical parts of being and feel oneness. I think of religion as anything that a person does repetitively-compulsively (religiously) to try to commune with the life force or Great Being or Unkown, Uncreated One or other unseen forces outside the self. Since I believe that there is only one God, there is only one life force and only one religion. If religion is a source of division, dissolve it. Judge the tree by its Fruits (kindliness, wisdom, understanding, complassion, humility, etc). Our lot appears to be to find the Frequented Fane inside our inner heart and to see with our inner eye. We are all one in the hand of the Ancient One who does as He willeth. It seems that we need to find that ocean of oneness and jump in or you find it by jumping in or.. Loving kindness, john On 12/10/03 7:37 AM, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just posted the following on the interfaith Study Circle list: I think that the unqualified statement, All religions are one, is ludicrous on the face of it. However, if the statement can be broken down, it might be more manageable: 1. What is included by all? 2. What is our present definition of religion? 3. What, if anything, is the significance of are (as contrasted with *were* or *will be*)? 4. What is intended by one or oneness. Let me then suggest a qualified statement (though not a testable proposition): The Mind of God willed certain Prophets or Messengers to found religions. The religious teachings of those Prophets or Messengers are one in that, irrespective of their apparent differences, they all reflect God's intentionality or Will at a particular moment in history. Unless one specifies what one means by, All religions are one, one is left with a sentence which any reasonable person can (and should) refute. -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
Re: All Religions are One
Hi, John, At 11:25 AM 12/10/2003 -1100, you wrote: While science and religion are two wings of man, the logician may have trouble jumping into the mystical ocean. I and the father are one. What can this mean? We may or may not have the fuller context for that statement. However, Jesus admitted speaking in parables. IMO, given that He regularly used an analogical pedagogy, it should not be surprising that His disciples also used metaphor in describing the events after His passing, such as the Resurrection. If you logically analyze it you can pull it apart. I went to an atheist site to get their view of a definition of religion and found the following: That article actually includes several different definitions, both functional and substantive. Most sociologists of religion prefer the former over the latter. Functional definitions allow the researcher to include a greater variety of organizations under the rubric of religion than would be possible with most substantive definitions. An example of a functional definition of religion, from Emile Durkheim, is a system of beliefs and praxes (practices), focused on the sacred (the extraordinary, not necessarily the supernatural), which unites people into a moral (normative) community. Substantive definitions, on the other hand, may specify particular beliefs, praxes, or objects of worship as *criterion variables*. However, if I define a religion as a belief in supernatural beings or in prayer, I am forced to exclude numerous religious organizations and traditions from this social institution, such as Confucianism and Ethical Culture. Religion seems to me to have something to do with the heart of man reaching out to the infinite. Each person has his own unique religiousview of life. Such a unique religious view, if there is such a thing, would, IMO, be a personal belief system, not a religion. Sociologically, religion is a social institution, i.e., the institution of religion. In a particular country, the various religious organizations (denominations, sects, cults, and, where applicable, churches or official ecclesia) are examined in the context of this greater structure. Unstated, or unshared (if that is possible), personal beliefs would not be considered religious phenomena by most sociologists. Sociologist Richard Niebuhr (Reinhold's brother), wrote a book I read years ago called, _The Denominational Society_. It describes the normative structure of the American religious institution as denominational (cooperative and pluralistic). Although not all religious organizations in the U.S. are denominations, those that are not in this category may experience degrees of cultural tension. Mark A. Foster * http://MarkFoster.net http://CompuServe.m.foster.name -- You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st news://list.jccc.net/bahai-st http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist (public) http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (public)
