Re: BD and steam
to Steve Diver, thanks for your comments on the steam/flame web sites. I would appreciate if you could advise the contact details for Atarus in Australia as I will contact them concerning their applicators. cheers Ross - Original Message - From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: Re: BD and steam Flame, Infra-Red, Steam now you're talking about some hot topics in weed control. See: Flame Weeding for Vegetable Crops http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/flameweedveg.html http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/PDF/flameweedveg.pdf This is the NCAT-ATTRA pub with all the suppliers and resources. EcoFarm in California just held a workshop on this topic in January, where I presented a summary of this topic. We featured the Waipuna hot foam equipment from New Zealand and the Infra-Red EcoWeeders from Switzerland, distributed by Forevergreen in British Columbia. Infra-red weeders are Swiss made. In North America, they are available from two suppliers: Forevergreen and Rittenhouse. A market farm scale flame weeder with a flaming hood, on wheels, can be obtained for $300-400. Flame Weeders in West Virginia http://www.flameweeders.cjb.net/ The Lady Punto, also known as EcoWeeder Lady, is an entry level hand-held Infra-Red weeder for $170. This is what you need, Merla, to try it out. A landscaper said they work great around trees and to edge sidwalks, pavements, and borders. Forevergreen EcoWeeders http://www.chemfree-weedcontrol.com/ The Junior 3 is getting into a farm-scale Infra-Red model for about $870. The Agri Infra-Red models on wheels for market farmers are going into the $1,200 and $1,600 range but don't quote me. Ask them. The Infra-Red weeders are therefore more expensive, but still reasonable to a commercial organic farmer or landscaper. When you're looking at 200', 400', and 600' rows of carrots, parsely, beans, onions, corn... well, you get the picture. Pro-rate your cost out over several years. The Waipuna hot foam is another story. The expense to lease these units are more inline with municipal park departments, institutional landscape maintenance, and large-scale orchards, vineyards, and berry operations rather than small farms and market gardens. Yet, steam or hot foam is *very* appealing to an organic farming situation. If you can imagine a 40-80 acre organic blackberry plantation in Oregon, you can understand how it would match this kind of organic farming. If you are talking about 5 acres of market vegetables, it is not in your budget. Waipuna http://www.waipuna.com/ The Atarus steam weeding equipment, from Australia, is now available in the U.S. through Delta Liquid Energy in Paso Robles, California. http://www.deltaliquidenergy.com/thermweedprodpage.html Have not seen what the Atarus costs, but again I am guessing it is more akin to larger-scale vineyards, rather than small farms. It is the nature of equipment costs. Merla, it occurs to me that you can pass along information about the Waipuna and Atarus steam-based weed control equipment to your weed control board. This is technology that works. Keep in mind, however, it is really expensive and not something they are likely to jump on. Over time, they might warm up to the idea. Regards, Steve Diver
Biological Farming Interviews was Callahan Interview
http://www.nutri-tech.com.au Actually, there are LOTS of great interviews at this site, including, I believe, one with Hugh Lovel!! -Allan
Other considertions on Flaming
Alan York pointed out in his recent presentation that the weak point of flaming is that the absolute best time to flame is upon emergence. Emergence in an established enterprise generally follows rain. Alan pointed out that this was exactly the time that you did not want a tractor in your field, even on the paths. He used various cultivation techniques to control weeds in a vineyard. -Allan
Lab Analysis of BC?
Does anyone have a microbial analysis of barrel compost that they can share with the group? Steve, you had one done, did you not? Can you share your insights? Anyone else? It's not lost on me that I still owe the group one study. The time may be ripe for that again. -allan
RE: Lab Analysis of BC?
We did a lot of work on Barrel compost microbiology several years ago. It was quite amazing in many regards, and had disease suppression traits in small lab bioassay setups (exposure to plant pathogens). I will dig around and see what got reported. William F Brinton Woods End Lab Mt Vernon ME www.woodsend.org --- On Tue 02/11, Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Allan Balliett [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 08:13:03 -0500 Subject: Lab Analysis of BC? Does anyone have a microbial analysis of barrel compost that they can share with the group? Steve, you had one done, did you not? Can you share your insights? Anyone else? It's not lost on me that I still owe the group one study. The time may be ripe for that again. -allan ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
RE: mean spirited
Where is this case of arsenic being taken to court? Any particulars would help. William F Brinton Woods End Lab Mt Vernon ME www.woodsend.org --- On Mon 02/10, Deborah Byron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Deborah Byron [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:13:59 -0600 Subject: mean spirited Speaking of citizen groups vs. the poultry industry, a group here (using out of state lawyers, I might add) is suing the big poultry producers regarding the public health hazard caused by arsenic--which enters the soil via chicken litter spread on fields and then becomes airborne in dust. There has been an unusually high rate of pediatric cancer cases recently in small farming communities and one thing that investigations revealed were extremely high levels of arsenic in school air filters. Now why, you might ask, would arsenic be used in poulty houses. The anwer: its put into the feed because it promotes faster bleed-out in chickens when they're processed. And then there's the featherless chicken, developed courtesy of Israeli researchers. Not long ago an arts center here advertised a mural design contest that would capture the local esprit. I envisioned a giant godzilla-sized rooster scratching, pecking and rampaging its way toward Tyson Foods headquarters. Oh well, maybe in devachan. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
RE: Lab Analysis of BC?
I'd appreciate that Will. I guess there are no studies 'out there' on the effectiveness of using BC (stirred for 20 minutes) as a disease suppressing spray, are there? -Allan We did a lot of work on Barrel compost microbiology several years ago. It was quite amazing in many regards, and had disease suppression traits in small lab bioassay setups (exposure to plant pathogens). I will dig around and see what got reported. William F Brinton Woods End Lab Mt Vernon ME www.woodsend.org
Re:naked chickens (was mean spirited)
Deborah - Sorry to be light-hearted about a serious topic, but your description reminded me of one of our (free-range, much-loved pet Maran hens) who, for some unknown reason, lost the feathers on her rear end. Her skin was also bright red, quite startling if she suddenly bent down to peck in front of you. We called her Ol' Burning Bum and she lived to a ripe and productive old age. Tony N-S. _ MSN Messenger - fast, easy and FREE! http://messenger.msn.co.uk
Re:naked chickens
Hi Tony, if you can get photo attachments, I'll send these 2 (small) pictures I have of the naked chickens to you. They're a startling red! They look a bit like very weird flamingos.
Re: mean spirited
A www.google.com search for 'arsenic poultry lawsuit' brought many hits, the first one in Oklahoma and Arkansas: www.nwaonline.net/pdfarchive/2002/december/12/RZ%2012-12-02%20A6.pdf http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030110/daf012_1.html It's my understanding that arsenic is included in chicken feed to increase appetite and improve growth rates. Frank Teuton - Original Message - From: Will Brinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 8:43 AM Subject: RE: mean spirited Where is this case of arsenic being taken to court? Any particulars would help. William F Brinton Woods End Lab Mt Vernon ME www.woodsend.org --- On Mon 02/10, Deborah Byron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Deborah Byron [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:13:59 -0600 Subject: mean spirited Speaking of citizen groups vs. the poultry industry, a group here (using out of state lawyers, I might add) is suing the big poultry producers regarding the public health hazard caused by arsenic--which enters the soil via chicken litter spread on fields and then becomes airborne in dust. There has been an unusually high rate of pediatric cancer cases recently in small farming communities and one thing that investigations revealed were extremely high levels of arsenic in school air filters. Now why, you might ask, would arsenic be used in poulty houses. The anwer: its put into the feed because it promotes faster bleed-out in chickens when they're processed. And then there's the featherless chicken, developed courtesy of Israeli researchers. Not long ago an arts center here advertised a mural design contest that would capture the local esprit. I envisioned a giant godzilla-sized rooster scratching, pecking and rampaging its way toward Tyson Foods headquarters. Oh well, maybe in devachan.
arsenic (and old 'shrooms?)
We have a mushroom plant nearby that practically gives away it's spent mushroom compost to gardeners. Even the organic folk like to use it. But I've heard that some tests on the compost itself and on the soil it's used on reveal a high level of arsenic. It's been pasteurized before inoculated with the mushroom spore and once it's heaved back to the composting area, it heats up again there, too. Unless the original horse manure (deworming, medications, etc) they use has arsenic, I don't know how it would be appearing in the compost. But, if it's in the compost they grew in, wouldn't it stand to reason it's probably in the mushrooms also?
Re: BD and steam
Hi Ross - The Atarus website in Australia is listed in the Flame Weeding for Vegetable Crops publication from ATTRA. http://www.atarus.com.au Yet, the web site quit working some weeks or months ago so I can't say much more than that. John McPhee (Team Leader for Sustainable and Profitable Industries, Vegetable Branch, Devonport, Tasmania) is looking into equipment and technology for organic / sustainable vegetable production so you might get in touch at: John McPhee [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you think of wood chip mulch on trees and vines, combined with steam for the emerging weeds, which ultimately poke through the mulch, you have a very powerful combination. You get the moisture conserving and weed-controlling mulch benefits, you provide the food and shelter benefits for soil biota, you get the fungal foodweb benefits, you get the humic benefits relative to Ramial Chipped Wood -- the Bois Raméal Fragmenté, and you get the no-till benefits. Yet, you avoid the fire hazard of open flame weeders and dried mulch in an arid climate. Regards, Steve Diver Ross McDonald asks: to Steve Diver, thanks for your comments on the steam/flame web sites. I would appreciate if you could advise the contact details for Atarus in Australia as I will contact them concerning their applicators. cheers Ross
Re: Cleaning Sprayers (from Cornell)
Roger Pye wrote recently re cleaning sprayers All designed to boost the economy, of course. Alternatively, you could use good old CT made in the oldfashioned way, pour some in the container for a short time before spraying it out, it will neutralise the chemicals and clean off any deposits. Clean containers that have held chemicals similarly, pour some in, shake well, leave for a time, shake well again, empty out, wash out with plain water. I am sorry Roger but for me not near good enough - In the event that someone on the list is trying to detox a sprayrig thats been used with the normal run of nasties - DO IT BY THE BOOK - and then some, for sulphony urea residue this means a big dose of pool chlorine through the entire system left to stand then flushed out (the SU chemicals will absorb into the pores of the plastic tank). Any sprayer thats had 24D in it will need every soft hose and rubber gasket replaced with new as well as a proper wash out, you need to dismantle the pump and valve assemblies to dislodge gunk whatever has been used. After you have done all this properly THEN use Roger's idea to get rid of the chlorine and soap that you cleaned with THEN spray out several tanker loads of CT as a soil drench NOW you may be able to go spray foliars on some of your less sensitive plants I am a transitioning farmer still using some of these toxic materials and this above is standard operating procedure at least a couple of times per season and I still would not be brave enough to use my cleaned rig in a vineyard. Apologies to anyone offended by this post but Allan originally posted information on cleaning from the cornell U and it would be financially very tempting for many beginning BD or Organics to buy an old sprayrig and clean it up, you can not smell or see the residue of some of the most persistent and low rate effective herbicides (the sulphony - urea group in particular) If you can scratch up the money for a new sprayer do it then none of this will be relevant. Cheers all, Lloyd Charles
Oregon BD
Theres another new posting for more advanced practioners --- Planetary Processes in the Preparations based on Lievegoed from www.oregonbd.org select the Community Page, then the article David Robison
Compost Tea use with veggies on the Farmers' Market
We had really nice fall broccoli in our garden with the use of compost tea made from our BD compost, both in 5 gallon buckets for a couple of weeks without aeration with an aquarium aerator for 24 hours and a tsp. of molasses added. It's especially valuable to us because since we only get 1/2 gal/minute water from our deep well and the water table goes down so much in August-September. Also, in our neighborhood IPM weed control project on the county road as we get the common tansy, spotted knapweed, hawkweed and thistle gone, we hoped to use mycorrhizae-rich compost tea in our 40-gallon buckets with our spray rig to encourage the growth of native grasses and broadleaf plants and discourage the the weeds. I am curious to try the addition of humus and kelp to our compost tea, as well as BC and 500 and am contemplating the purchase of a compost tea making unit with a compost well, and a stronger aerating unit to go in our barrels. Just now, I called the Environmental Specialist at our Health District to ask him about e.coli 0157. I told him that the people who make the organic rule are concerned about this and where could I have my compost tested? I also asked him how many cases of icily 0157 he sees and in what. He said they are sporadic and mostly in meat. I've been certified organic ever since the state started having a certification program. Can I sell veggies and herbs under my organic certification on the Market in 2003 if I spray compost tea in August and September to keep my plants alive?
Re: Oregon BD (1)
Dave Robison wrote: Also found it helpful to elaborate on horns versus antlers. As roger said: But when I read (in David's course notes) about the process by which it (bd 500) becomes so, I laughed with chronic disbelief - how, I thought, could anyone be taken in by such patent cosmic clap-trap? I don't know if you've noticed that when something in your computer goes wrong, the error message generated often bears little resemblance to the fault. This is because the number of error messages is limited and if the computer cannot identify one which fits, it just tosses another one up which it 'thinks' might fit. That was the feeling I had when I first read the explanation on the horn manure process, that someone had been asked how the thing worked and that was the best they could come up with in the time allowed. When I first talked about BD with a good friend of mine, he looked at me with the now-familiar 'steer caught in the headlights' look, laughed and said You can't be serious, falling for something like that. Cow shit buried in a cow horn after dancing backwards round a campfire in the light of the silvery moon with a feather up your backside! And I laughed with him and then added Dug up after six months, liquidised and sprayed out and it makes the garden or the farm grow like you wouldn't believe. And all for the cost of a handful of cow shit! He delights in telling that story to everyone he meets. Good publicity, I reckon. The message we should be putting out is that BD500 (and the other preps) is pure energy, and we should frame it in the context and knowledge of the person to whom we're giving it. It took me a long time to get over the negative impact of that explanation; I only did so when I had acquired, through dowsing, a basis of understanding. It's like you can't teach someone anything without giving them a basic level of knowledge they can build on. Hee hee. Me too. So roger, can you explain about Since 'discovering' within myself the ability I have to detect energy flows, that understanding has grown in depth. Perhaps I should have said 'Since discovering within myself the ability everyone has to detect energy flows, that understanding has grown in depth.' We all have this ability, the trick lies in finding the way to it, and the pendulum and divining rods are the tools which fine tune our learning and usage of it. Dowsing is all about locating natural energy, using it (in the case of water, say) and in many cases controlling it. The more one learns about dowsing, the more one realises that energy is not just one thing, but many things, or one thing in many forms. Each of the building blocks of life is a separate form of energy, each vitamin, each trace element, plant, organism, etc. So in describing BD500 and how it becomes so, I could say: Life building blocks in combination = energy1 (soil) + energy2 (water, nutrient, heat) + energy3 (BD500) = womb for energy4 (seeds) + (energy2 + aerial influences) = energy5 (perennial grasses) + energy6 (cow) = energy7 (milk, meat) minus energy8 (protein + nutrient) = energy9 (manure) + energy10 (in-horn purification composting process) = energy11 (BD500) I know I've missed a bit out but I daresay you'll get the general idea, that being that at each stage along the way there is another non-esoteric logical step to be taken and also a chance for control, and that BD500 is pure energy. By using the fine-tuning tools dowsing gives, each of the energies above can be measured. Imagine you have a desk in front of you with a measure on it marked out in even divisions from 1 to 10,000. I'll call these divisions 'pys'. Taking roma tomato plants growing in a suburban veggie plot (mine, with average soil to which compost of questionable value was added, irrigated with tap water because no rain) as an example, we come up with the following: When the 6 seedlings were planted the soil = 2,500 pys, now it's 760. We have had no rain so watering has been by tap water (6.5 pys compared with pure rainwater 1,500). We have had about 100 good sized tomatoes and are still picking at a rate of about 15 every two or three days. Each tomato averages 75 pys, all taste wonderful. The plants = 1,490 pys each. Even without performing a complicated equation it is clear there is a huge imbalance here, that the plant energies far outweigh those in the soil and so the extra must be manufactured in the plants and come from aerial energies as well. Don't ask me how much of each, I don't know. A cow puts out the equivalent weight in manure per day as the grasses it consumes. Usually she will only eat perennial grasses, the annuals she tramples down to form a living mulch. If we were to measure the energies in her diet, including moisture, plus those in her self, we would likely find a similar imbalance and answer. A man in reasonable health and fitness measures about 900 pys in the morning before eating
Re: Oregon BD (2)
Dave Robison wrote: Also what's this about alfalfa being 509? Without doubt it is an important herb, but what do you do? Do you prepare it? I didn't say I personally did anything with it, the suggestion is just a theory that seems logical to me that each of the preps plus one or two missing ones fits in with the plant growth cycle. The things I know about alfalfa (lucerne in Oz) are that it is a legume which contains every known mineral and vitamin, is a valuable forage plant/stock feed/mulch, is an alkaliser and detoxicant, is harvested dried and pelletised and sold as cat and rabbit litter, has considerable medical uses. When newly pelletised it is highly hydroscopic; put 100 milligrams in an empty 500gram coffee tin, add 100 ml of water, and the resultant bulk will fill the can. In this form it can be dug into the top layer of soil and used as a wetting agent but make sure the area is mulched. Dry, its energy is 350 pys; water releases the nutrients and multiplies the energy. Other news -- we had a weekend meeting with Ruth Zinniker to discuss prep making. She is probably the oldest prep maker in terms of being in the chain of transmission from the original lectures. She is a very practical person and basically just told us to keep doing it and stay off the head trips. She wouldn't let us just sit around talking; we had to go out and do some chores with her! Ruth has some reluctance about flow forms, feels they have the lemniscate but not enough vortex. Hence they tend to bring in whatever the natural forces are and fail to gather the farmer's individuality. She likes stirring machines better because they have a strong vortex; she was interested to hear about Steve's egg-shaped machine. Ruth stirs for her farm by hand in a 50-gal barrel, so maybe 25 acres worth each time. So spraying occurs over several days each time. Whilst I agree that the contribution of farmers or farm managers is an important part of BD, I could argue that the energising of the water itself in any sort of device, be it stirring or flowform or recirculating stream, in combination with the energising of BD500 or 501, would be more than enough for the growing of crops and feed. Take pasture grasses, for instance. Generally their energy is around 490 pys. BD500 vortex-mixed in rainwater with manure concentrate for sixty minutes has an off-the-flowform rating of several thousand. The recommendation is it be sprayed out after 3pm (or in the cool of the evening in very hot areas or regions with prolonged sunshine) and within 24 hours of mixing. By that time its energy will have dropped to a residual charge of 100. roger
