Re: Demeter Non-profit - Not!
**In order to clear up any confusion, an organization or a company cannot have one without the other. You cannot declare yourself non-profit WITHOUT securing tax exempt status. The IRS likes to know about these things because that means they owe back taxes and penalties.** I don't think the above statement is true. Non-profit corporations are a name for a type of corporation, not a statement. Tax-exempt status is granted by the IRS to certain organizations that meet the requirements for charitable organizations. (See publication 557 from the IRS.) Because the tax-exempt status is difficult to receive, many non-profits set up a separate corporation for that purpose. In many circles, it usually is for educational purposes--even scholarships to universities. Susan
Re: Demeter Non-profit - Not!
To all especially Frank Greg, I have NO interest in pursuing this thread. Go for it those of you who find it useful. I have NO interest of war of any kind. I am a pacifist. I believe in PEACE is what that means. Besides, you CAN have a non-profit company and NOT be tax exempt. Because Demeter has chosen NOT to engage with us in this dialogue, I choose to no longer pursue any dialogue on this subject. As far as I am concerned, certifying agencies are worthless as are names such as organic, biodynamic, natural etc. Natural was the first of these words to be co-opted by the powers that be (economic self interest) to use it to sell unnatural products thirty years ago or more. The best way I know of to decide whether I should buy a product is to use the knowledge I have about the company IF I do not know the producer myself. KNOWING WHO IS GROWING AND PRODUCING YOUR FOOD IS THE BEST WAY TO KNOW THE VALUE OF YOUR FOOD, NOT AN OUTSIDE CERTIFYING AGENCY. Those of you who are in the business of producing, distributing, and selling food may have legitimate economic concerns about third party certifying agencies. However, as a consumer (or if I were a producer) I am firstly wanting to know my producer and failing that I would use my INTUITION when shopping to sense whether or not the food is safe, vital and local. If you don't trust your intuition and want someone else to tell/sell you what is accepted as safe or organic or natural, well, good luck. I think you'd be best off learning to use your intuition since it is unlikely you're going to know all of the people who produce all of the food you use. And intuition is a tool that gives good advice! Know your farmer, know your shopkeeper, talk to the people who are involved in getting you your food. Learn about the distribution system and the farms involved. This is the way to engage with your community and be part of the food system in which you find yourself. When you know your producer and you trust your intuition, then certification is redundant. I would also like to know how a discussion about healing and radionics so quickly devolved into a discussion about the failings of the old guard of bd yet again. And has devolved once again into a sales pitch for Greg Willis' preps. How can you have a meaningful discussion about this in this venue, if all the parties will not engage? It devolves into the same old rant. It is more constructive to hear how you will change things, how the trademarking of biodynamics will change the face of bd agriculture, how this nomenclature is making certification ultimately useless, watering down what has been age old practices of working in partnership with nature. Let's hear more about your innovations and less about your litigious threats. Or please, go ahead and sue already and report back your progress. But please, please stop trying to start or continue a war with the mother (Demeter that is). Blessings, Jane - Original Message - From: bdnow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:23 AM Subject: FWD: Demeter Non-profit - Not! Dear Allan and Listmembers, Due to a momentary misalignment of my brain cells with my eyeballs, I
Re: Demeter Non-Profit - Not!
Frank wrote with great insight: I think the people on this list are much more in tune with the concept of multiple methods of accomplishing a goal rather than one orthodoxy. One pitfall to avoid is excessive indulgence in demonizing the Other. Here here! I would love it if this list could set itself apart from other conversations in the world, and NOT participate in demonizing the Other!! Thanks for your insight, Jane - Original Message - From: Frank Teuton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Demeter Non-Profit - Not! Hi Jane, Sorry but all I have for you is a chiding admonishment, eh? Please think of it kindly
Fwd: Demeter Non-Profit - Not!
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:13:06 -0800 From: Greg Willis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Accept-Language: en To: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Demeter Non-Profit - Not! Dear Allan and All Listmembers, On Saturday, I received in the mail a copy of THE VOICE OF DEMETER, ISSUE NO. 15, WINTER 2002. On the back cover is a plea for money under the title BECOME A FRIEND. I direct your attention to the opening statement, which says, and I quote: Become a friend of Demeter and join the circle of supporting members. The Demeter Association, Inc. is a national, independent, non-profit, corporation . . . Wait just a minute. Non-profit? I have a letter in my possession on Demeter letterhead, written and signed by Anne Mendenhall explaining to me that I could neither ask for nor receive copies of Demeter's 990 IRS filings because Demeter Association, Inc. not registered by the IRS as a 401(c)(3) non-profit corporation. So here's the dirty little secret that they don't tell unsuspecting people who contribute money to their organization. Demeter Association, Inc. was incorporated in Massachusetts as a corporation that intended to become a non-profit organization. According to the officials with whom I spoke in the department of the Secretary of State in Massachusetts, Demeter Association, Inc. never applied for tax exempt non-profit status in Massachusetts. When I inquired whether or not they enjoyed tax exempt status in the State of New York where their offices are located, again I was told that they do not have tax exempt non-profit status. And, when I checked with the IRS, they told me that Demeter does not have federal tax exempt non-profit status either. That would be 401(c)(3) designation. Well. Isn't this interesting? I would recommend that anyone who becomes a Friend of Demeter demand a copy of the IRS papers granting the company current federal tax exempt non-profit status or the contributor can't deduct it on their personal or company income tax. Then I'd make some serious inquiries with Demeter and the BDA since them support Demeter financially. SCREAM! Am I the only one in the whole damn UNIVERSE who cares that Anne Mendenhall and Demeter look like they're running a scam? Is there anyone out there who cares that it looks like they're committing fraud in the name of biodynamics and Rudolf Steiner? Are the people on this list so frickin' apathetic that they don't give a crap that when Demeter does something that has all the appearances of being fraudulent and unethical, it smears anyone and everyone who calls what they do biodynamic? I'd like to know where the BDA stands on this. Let's see the proof, Anne. Let's see the proof, Chuck. If you've got it, so be it. If you don't, you should tell your members, subscribers and those whom you certify that you lied. How about it all you Demeter/Aurora Organic certified farmers, winemakers,breadmakers, vegetable growers, coffee growers, herbalists, flower growers and vineyard owners? Ask Mendenhall for proof. Put it up on the web. Let everyone see it. Prove me wrong. NO ONE IS NON-PROFIT UNLESS THEY ARE GRANTED THAT STATUS BY THE IRS AND THE SECRETARY OF STATE IN THE STATE IN WHICH THEY OPERATE. Period. Anything else is fraud. I, for one, am appalled, but not surprised. Greg Willis
Re: Demeter Non-Profit - Not!
Perhaps you looked in the wrong place. Demeter to the best of my knowledge is in NY state, not Mass. JS - Original Message - From: bdnow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:19 AM Subject: Fwd: Demeter Non-Profit - Not! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:13:06 -0800 From: Greg Willis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Accept-Language: en To: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Demeter Non-Profit - Not! Dear Allan and All Listmembers, On Saturday, I received in the mail a copy of THE VOICE OF DEMETER, ISSUE NO. 15, WINTER 2002. On the back cover is a plea for money under the title BECOME A FRIEND.
Re: Demeter Non-Profit - Not!
On Monday, February 18th Greg Willis wrote: Become a friend of Demeter and join the circle of supporting members. The Demeter Association, Inc. is a national, independent, non-profit, corporation . . . NO ONE IS NON-PROFIT UNLESS THEY ARE GRANTED THAT STATUS BY THE IRS AND THE SECRETARY OF STATE IN THE STATE IN WHICH THEY OPERATE. Period. Anything else is fraud. When I joined this list and learned about the history of the grab of the term biodynamic by Demeter I was saddened and appalled. Rather than laying claim to the word biodynamic they would have done well to put their energy into strengthening the Demeter label. Then, as in Europe, Demeter would be the label that consumers look for. On their website, Demeter says they are a nonprofit, as is the BDA. BDA is however tax exempt, while Demeter is non tax exempt. Can one claim nonprofit status unless they are certified as such by the government? Could the truth be in the words that they use to describe themselves? By law they are a corporate entity, yet they use the friendly term Association as their public face. They certainly know the power of words. Bonnie York
Re: Demeter Non-Profit - Not!
Hi Frank: Yes war sucks bigtime. And there are other choices for the good of all. Think it has to do with cooperation. Blessings, Barbara Aurora Farm is the only unsubsidized, family-run seed farm in North America offering garden seeds grown using Rudolf Steiner's methods of spiritual agriculture. http://www.kootenay.com/~aurora -Original Message- From: Frank Teuton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:51 AM Subject: Re: Demeter Non-Profit - Not! Hi Jane, Sorry but all I have for you is a chiding admonishment, eh? Please think of it kindly When reading these 'sturm und drang' posts please read carefully, to avoid misunderstandings. You see, Greg points out that the offices are in New York further down in his post: When I inquired whether or not they enjoyed tax exempt status in the State of New York where their offices are located, again I was told that they do not have tax exempt non-profit status. And, when I checked with the IRS, they told me that Demeter does not have federal tax exempt non-profit status either. That would be 401(c)(3) designation. I expect your less than careful reading probably comes from some place where you feel the attacks are overly one sided and that there is good in these people that is being denied by their attackers. Something in that old Catholic tradition of 'hating the sin, loving the sinners' seems to be missing, eh? It seems to me that the BD community in the US is getting caught up in an organizational dynamic similar to the struggles over defining organic for the National Organic Program and defining composting, which is being increasingly narrowly defined as thermophilic composting, (as in the NOP rules.) Maybe there is some deep astrological reason for this, who knows? But the businesses of Self-Other conflict on the one hand, and cooperation, on the other, can certainly entail crimination and recrimination, before they move to a more constructive level. Rather than stay within the little world of BD I would like to make you aware of the slightly large world of organics and composting. In both of these worlds process standards, ie how something has to be done, rather than performance standards, ie what are we trying to do, have become or are becoming the rule, not only of a core group of practitioners but as a matter of law (in the case of the NOP, Federal law.) I think the people on this list are much more in tune with the concept of multiple methods of accomplishing a goal rather than one orthodoxy. One pitfall to avoid is excessive indulgence in demonizing the Other. But it is hard to refrain from doing battle when the other side attacks you. I was recently thrown off the US Composting Council list for coming to the defense of vermicomposting, particularly vermicomposting in schools, which Jim McNelly has made a hobby of attacking in a 'Dennis Avery' sort of way over the last few years. I basically think he has an ax to grind against Mary Appelhof and fearmongering against her life's work is how he does it, for what that's worth. It is hard to avoid angry feelings in these contexts, but it is important to keep some sort of perspective. By and large, war sucks. Frank Teuton - Original Message - From: jsherry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Demeter Non-Profit - Not! Perhaps you looked in the wrong place. Demeter to the best of my knowledge is in NY state, not Mass. JS - Original Message - From: bdnow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:19 AM Subject: Fwd: Demeter Non-Profit - Not! Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:13:06 -0800 From: Greg Willis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Accept-Language: en To: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Demeter Non-Profit - Not! Dear Allan and All Listmembers, On Saturday, I received in the mail a copy of THE VOICE OF DEMETER, ISSUE NO. 15, WINTER 2002. On the back cover is a plea for money under the title BECOME A FRIEND.
