more BARF questions

[Vicky Whitney]

Hi, Kendra.  I'll BRIEFLY address your BARF questions, as this is sort of a 
taboo subject here on the Berner-L.  Like some other emotionally-charged 
topics it has caused big flame wars in the past.  A more appropriate place 
for discussion and getting some EXCELLENT information, support, and advice 
is the NaturalBerners list on yahoogroups.  To join, simply send a blank 
e-mail to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  This is a restricted, private 
list so you won't find it on yahoogroups.com.  Deb Tripp, list moderator, 
will respond and get you on.

1.  There are many books on the subject, but the one I recommend is Ian 
Billinghurst's "The BARF Diet."  His earlier books, "Give Your Dog A Bone" 
and "Grow Your Pups With Bones" are also excellent, but his third book 
contains much of the same information, with recipes and feeding plans.

2.  Easy way to make BARF?  Depends.  I relate this to how "easy" it is to 
feed my own family.  Some people feed whole raw animal parts with no fear or 
problems (after all, this is the way canids ate for thousands of years 
before man and then kibble manufacturers appeared on the scene).  The 
smaller percentage of veggies you feed do need to be ground up, however.  
The easiest is buying one of the excellent pre-made frozen raw products now 
on the market.  A BARF diet does require variety, but not in every meal, 
just over say a week's time (just like we eat -- we generally don't eat 
"balanced" meals every single day).

3.  More or less expensive to BARF?  Also depends.  Pre-made frozen products 
will cost about double the cost of a super premium kibble, and will require 
very few supplements -- just as easy as kibble.  The cost of making it on 
your own is usually less, but depends on your sources for ingredients and 
what you're actually feeding.  Most of us believe our lower vet bills offset 
any higher cost of feeding BARF (no teeth cleaning, fewer allergies, overall 
healthier dogs with stronger immune systems).

And on that note, I'm stopping -- I'm just answering questions, not trying 
to promote anything here.  Please join us at NaturalBerners for more 
information.

Vicky Whitney in Bozeman, Montana

ORIGINAL POST:
From :   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject :more BARF questions
Hi again, I'm starting to think about trying BARF again, and have a few 
questions.

1.  Is there a simple book I can get, with information, and most of  all,
recipes?
2.  Is there an easy way to make the BARF diet?  Does it have to consist of
"tons" of ingredients, and does it have to involve "grinding"?  (Vegetarian
mommy- yikes!)  *I remember when I was a little girl we lived in France and 
my
mom made our dogs food- chicken, rice, and vegetables- they didn't have 
packaged
kibble then.

3.  Is it less expensive, more expensive, or cost the same to do totally
homemade BARF than kibble and supplements?
Thanks for going over this again with me!

Kendra

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Re: more BARF questions

[Karyn Waugh]

There are several books out there that you can read about BARF.  My personal 
favorites are:  all of Dr. Ian Billinghurst's books (Give your dog a bone, 
grow your pup on bones, and his new one BARF Diet), and Susan Johnson's 
book, Switching to Raw.

You may want to consider joining the Naturalberner list as well.  This list 
is specifically for the discussion of the BARF diet (Natural Diet).  You can 
try to use this link to sign up:  
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalBerners/
If that doesn't work, try sending an e-mail to:  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Another good source that I've found to be really helpful, is some of Brenda 
Hagel's sites.  She has one that has links to quite a bit of Natrual feeding 
sites, including one that has recipes.  If you do a search for Brenda Hagel, 
you'll find it.

Good luck,
Karyn Waugh
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BARF ALTERNATIVES

[Tschuggen]

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* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

more BARF questions

[KendyBo]

Hi again,

I'm starting to think about trying BARF again, and have a few questions.

1.  Is there a simple book I can get, with information, and most of  all, recipes?

2.  Is there an easy way to make the BARF diet?  Does it have to consist of "tons" of 
ingredients, and does it have to involve "grinding"?  (Vegetarian mommy- yikes!)  *I 
remember when I was a little girl we lived in France and my mom made our dogs food- 
chicken, rice, and vegetables- they didn't have packaged kibble then.

3.  Is it less expensive, more expensive, or cost the same to do totally homemade BARF 
than kibble and supplements?

Thanks for going over this again with me!

Kendra

BARF versus Kibble, Berner-L Discussions

[Pat Long & Paul Dangel]

Just a quick note about the way that any discussion on this topic will
proceed. For those of you who weren't here, the topic had to be banned
from discussion on the Berner-L several years ago. The emails and
comments since then have been just fine, and I'd like to keep it that
way.

Any lengthy discussion of BARF can be done on the Natural Berners
yahoogroup List. Anyone who would like to ask about BARF or give a
general summary on the Berner-L, please do! We always have new people on
the List, and we'd always like to hear more.

As in any discussion, it is best not to make negative comments about the
other viewpoints. There are many excellent quality kibble foods for
dogs, and any sweeping statement indicating one way or the other are
bound to start an argument. Which will be done in a sweet and civil
manner, of course! People on the Berner-L try very hard to do the very
best for their dogs. Anything that suggests otherwise creates some very
angry feedback. Please present all information in a positive and helpful
manner. Here's an example of an unacceptable way to present information:

- Good grief, you're a stupid idiot to let your dog out the front door
to run loose, you are going to get him killed!

Now, that may indeed be quite true, but you've just alienated someone
who may need to listen carefully to what you have to say. Here's a
better way to say the same thing:

- You're lucky to have a neighborhood without traffic in which you can
let your dogs run loose. I've always found that keeping my dogs on a
leash in any area that isn't fenced is the best way to keep them from
getting hit by a car where I live. 

So please, think carefully before you write! If you aren't sure, ask me
and I'll be happy to let you know before you post something to the List!
I would much rather do that than to have to kick anyone off the List!
(Which really happens very rarely, thank goodness!)

Pat Long,
Berner-L Co-Owner
Berwyn PA

what is BARF?

[Vicky Whitney]

ORIGINAL POST:   >>>would you please address generally, HOW vegetables, 
fruits,
and other "human" raw foods are prepared for dogs?  I"m not planning to go
BONES AND RAW FOOD, due to the time and expense and expertise that seem
involved, but what if I carefully supplement my large breed kibble with
certain kinds of "bones and raw food." Do Berners actually scarf up celery
and bananas by themselves? (I'm expecting a pup, so excuse MY ignorance!!).
I would love to supplement my dog's kibble diet if this can be done causing
good, not harm...  It seems right to me that raw foods might be a good way
to lessen the liklihood of cancer, as it can in humans... Just a general
idea of how to do this would be great.  (I know my breeder is more than
happy to help me, but I'm also just loving the reading and learning on this
list, and hearing all the different ideas and approaches, and I don't want
to make her totally bonkers before my pup even arrives!

Mary in Seattle<<<

RESPONSE:
Mary, please don't do ANY supplementation without knowing exactly what and 
why you're doing it -- especially with a puppy -- as you can cause permanent 
damage.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with giving occasional "healthy" 
human food to a dog (celery, a banana) -- that's actually preferable to most 
doggie biscuits and CERTAINLY better than something like Cheetos or ice 
cream.  But it may unbalance an otherwise balanced diet.  It is your 
responsibility to understand what you're putting in and on your new puppy 
(food, vaccinations, pesticides, etc.).

BARF stands for "biologically appropriate raw foods" or "bones and raw 
foods."  The theory behind it is that all life was designed by nature to be 
nurtured by specific foods -- and dogs were not "designed" to eat grains, 
highly-processed, or cooked foods.  Just like humans normally fare better 
healthwise with a lifetime of eating a variety of fresh, wholesome, 
species-appropriate foods, so should dogs.   But our systems do have some 
significant differences.

There are many ways of feeding a proper BARF diet, just as there are many 
ways of feeding yourself and your family a proper diet.  Many long-time raw 
feeders feel that there is minimal time and expense involved.   As to 
"expertise," it does require a minimum amount of that -- but if you can 
successfully feed yourself and your family a healthy diet, then you can 
certainly do the same for your dog.   There are also some excellent 
"balanced" commercial raw frozen products available now, which are just as 
convenient as kibble.

This is not an appropriate place to debate the pros and cons of kibble 
versus BARF, or to tell anyone "how to do it," so I encourage you and others 
who are curious or wish to learn more about it to join the NaturalBerners 
list at yahoogroups to learn more.

And I'm sure you're not driving your breeder bonkers with questions -- she's 
undoubtedly just as concerned about the future welfare of your puppy as you 
are, so do allow her to guide and assist you.

Welcome to Bernerland!

Vicky Whitney in Bozeman, Montana

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Re: "excuse my ignorance" what is BARF, etc.

[The Ortega Family]

I also know only a little but while all of you with the expertise are
answering the question posed by Andie "excuse my ignorance"  -- what is the
BARF diet?  -- would you please address generally, HOW vegetables, fruits,
and other "human" raw foods are prepared for dogs?  I"m not planning to go
BONES AND RAW FOOD, due to the time and expense and expertise that seem
involved, but what if I carefully supplement my large breed kibble with
certain kinds of "bones and raw food." Do Berners actually scarf up celery
and bananas by themselves? (I'm expecting a pup, so excuse MY ignorance!!).
I would love to supplement my dog's kibble diet if this can be done causing
good, not harm...  It seems right to me that raw foods might be a good way
to lessen the liklihood of cancer, as it can in humans... Just a general
idea of how to do this would be great.  (I know my breeder is more than
happy to help me, but I'm also just loving the reading and learning on this
list, and hearing all the different ideas and approaches, and I don't want
to make her totally bonkers before my pup even arrives!

Mary in Seattle

First timer--barf diet and puppies

[etfonehome1]

My cute little Hawkeye (we are oringinally from Iowa) is 5 mo old and #58.  He is not 
thin but looking tall and sleek.  This is the first dog I have ever feed the BARF diet 
to.  My other two adult dogs are also participating.  They are doing great with the 
adult dogs eating 2% fo their body wt and Hawkeye is 6%.  But now that he is getting 
larger, it seems like alot.  How long is he considered a puppy?
> HOpe that I did this right...I appreciate any comments you can give me.

Thanks
Elaine and the crew (Hawkeye, Taz, and Casey) in Scottsdale
> From: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/05/22 Thu AM 01:01:10 EDT
> To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: BERNER-L digest 4426
> 
> 
>   BERNER-L Digest 4426
> 
> Topics covered in this issue include:
> 
>   1) Only received half of digest 4425
>   by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Cecilia_St=E5hl?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   2) Re: Hoover Floormate review
>   by "A. Sufi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   3) kibble question
>   by Jane Polcovar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   4) : hiccups
>   by "Andrea Brin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   5) House training regression
>   by Jennifer Martyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   6) (no subject)
>   by Radha Iyengar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   7) Re: House training regression
>   by "Eileen Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   8) Re: : hiccups
>   by Sylvia Katvala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   9) RE: Government and Dogs
>   by Rose Tierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  10) RE: My puppy hates her crate!
>   by Rose Tierney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  11) Re: We also need help! Dog eating poo!!
>   by "Anne Gribbon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  12) Hoover floormate
>   by beth oberle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  13) Dumbell for Open Obedience
>   by "Vicky Whitney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  14) Re: 2003 Catalogs
>   by Patricia Tackett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  15) Re: hiccups
>   by "Cindy Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  16) Re: 2003 Catalogs
>   by "Lynne Hawkinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  17) grass eating
>   by Deb Drozda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  18) Re: grass eating
>   by "Claudia Brydon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  19) Bronze Bernese Hooks
>   by Rob & Sherry Hartung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  20) Grass Eating Berners
>   by "Jeff & Mary Chapdelaine - SnoBear berners" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Hi
> 
> Though half a digest is better than no digest at all, I'd love to be able to
> read the missing posts, especially Robin Hamme's.
> Could someone please forward me a copy of digest 4425?
> 
> Many thanks in advance : )
> 
> Cecilia Ståhl
> Stockholm Sweden
> 
>  I also just recently purchased the Hoover Floormate (Costco) - what a great
> invention!
> 
> Our downstairs is almost entirely hard surfaces, and this cleaner works
> great
> 
> on the oak hardwood & ceramic tile. 
> 
> It also cleans, polishes & buffs the marble entryway beautifully (so much so
> that we 
> 
> have had wonderful 'sock skidding/sliding' races with the kids :))
> 
> As with Beth, we have no affiliation with Hoover, other than high praise!
> 
> 
> 
> Antoinette & Zeus (but I polish the best with my belly, mom!)
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:31:21 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> From: beth oberle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Subject: Hoover Floormate review
> 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
>  
> 
> Hello all!
> 
>  
> 
> I've been very behind reading my L and missed all the
> 
> reports on the Specialty. Hope all had a great time.
> 
>  
> 
> I recently purchased a Hoover Floormate cleaner and
> 
> wanted to report my findings as vacuum recommendations
> 
> and the like are frequent topics here on the L.
> 
>  
> 
> We have all hard surface floors on our first floor.
> 
> Mainly hardwood (oak) and ceramic tile. The last two
> 
> months or so have been particularly rainy and muddy
> 
> here so we've been able to really test drive this
> 
> thing!
> 
>  
> 
> For those not familiar with this machine, it is an
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Re: BARF and trichinosis

[Jeff & Mary Chapdelaine - SnoBear berners]

Thanks for the info. Vicky.
I don't feed BARF, but am not against it.
Growing up I had a Mom who drilled into me that pork MUST be well done or
we'd all die of trichinosis! So was just curious about dogs who ate it raw.
:  )

Bernerly,
Mary


Jeff & Mary Chapdelaine
SnoBear Berners
N. California, USA
http://snobear.freeyellow.com

BARF and trichinosis

[Vicky Whitney]

Mary, I'm sorry to take so long responding to your question about the 
potential of contracting trichinosis through feeding raw pork meat and bones 
-- I wanted to look into it a bit.  Now I'm behind with my digests, and hope 
I'm not being redundant.

The general consensus on NaturalBerners about the danger of our dogs 
contracting trichinosis from raw pork is that it is only a small risk.  
Years ago, when most commercial pork was fed raw garbage, trichinosis was a 
problem.  Today, with most commercial pork being fed either grain or cooked 
garbage, and with the widespread use of antibiotics in the feed, the 
incidence of this parasitic infestation is very low.  Cooking it definitely 
kills it, and freezing raw meat for several days can kill spores, but it is 
recommended that freezing be at no higher than -13 degrees F. for 10 days.

People and dogs can also contract trichinosis from a wide variety of wild 
game meats.  (I feed raw wild elk, antelope, bison, and deer meat here in 
Montana, but I will NOT feed bear meat to my dogs.)

People and dogs can carry trichinella cysts but not be clinically affected.

Most us who feed BARF or another raw diet do feed raw pork products, many of 
whom have done so for many years, and I was unable to find a single 
incidence of trichinosis reported on either the Berner list or another raw 
list I belong to.  I guess we do so, knowing it's a risk, because we feel 
that the benefits to health and teeth significantly outweigh a minimal risk. 
 What are the risks of having a dog annually anethasized to have his teeth 
cleaned, or the risks of systemic infections or diseases contracted because 
of tooth and gum disease?

Raw pork feet is another good "raw meat/bone" product I forgot to mention (I 
haven't fed that, as I can only find smoked pork feet), as they require more 
chewing than some chicken parts.

Again, I don't want to start an inferno over dog diets, intending only to 
BRIEFLY answer a question about cleaning dogs' teeth and BARF.  Join us at 
the NaturalBerners list if you'd like to learn more.

Vicky Whitney in Bozeman, Montana




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Joining NaturalBerners list (was BARF)

[Vicky Whitney]

In response to a question about a BARF diet, I suggested anyone interested 
in BARF, natural raw diets, or discussions on more "natural" treatment of 
Berner health in general, join the NaturalBerners list at yahoogroups.com.

Deb Tripp, the moderator, just reminded me that this is a restricted, 
private list, so it can't be joined in the manner I suggested.  To join the 
NaturalBerners list, send a blank email message to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and Deb will take care of you.

Sorry about the confusion!  Being blonde is not only a "handicap," but being 
an OLD blonde is downright BAD -- at 55, I now not only qualify for AARP, 
but I get in half-price at the movies, cheap coffee at McDonalds, and get 
called "ma'am" a lot.  I swear I have "sometimer's disease," and we all know 
where that leads .  .  .

Vicky Whitney in Bozeman, Montana


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RE: BARF

[Rose Tierney]

Hi Maria,
I found a reliable source for Marks and Spencers Teas:-) The extra strong
malty brew sets me up for the day. Five mugs during the course of the day
and I never drink tea after mid-afternoon unless I'm whelping puppies
through the night:-) Never ever will instant coffee pass my lips and I
drink about three cups of percolated coffee a year! The only coffee I
enjoyed was in Denmark accompanied by their fabulous pastries and
delightful creamy confections m.Iced Caps from Tim Horton's are
a summer treat.

Incidentally I think Earl Grey is a disgusting perfumed brew for fops and
ladies with the vapours!  Sturdy Brits favour a brew that can put hair on
your chest!!!

Rose T. :-))

RE: BARF

[Rose Tierney]

No No No!

The Earl Grey is for afternoon tea to wash down those slimey cucumber
sandwiches! Bring on the Vintage Port with the Stilton:-)

Rose T.

-Original Message-
From: Maria Crifasi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: February 15, 2003 11:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Rose Tierney'
Cc: 'Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List'
Subject: Re: BARF


ok. I can't let this go by!

Cabernet and Vouvray (to go with the lobster)
Lobster and Filet Mignon with Bearnaise sauce
Chocolate Mousse
Skittles (blink, blink)
Columbian coffee and Earl Grey Tea

Maria Crifasi
The Snowy Catoctin Mountains, MD

Re: BARF

[Pat Long]

Karen,

I don't need to make scrapple, they sell it in the stores. We're civilized 
here in the Philadelphia area. We also have Utz potato chips. I do make a 
mean cheesesteak, however!

Pat Long, visiting a bevy of Maine's Berners,
Vooreesville, NY





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Re: BARF

[James and Karen Gross]

Pat,
Is this true?  Do you eat Scrapple?  My husband is from Nebraska and he has
been trying and trying to find scrapple since he moved here (Oregon), of
course, no body here even knows what scrapple is
Do you have a recipe?  I would love to surprise him sometime and make him
some
thanks
Karen


oh oh, I think I goofed in my reply.  I think Pat Long eats scrapple, not
snapple.  Maybe she drinks snapple, not coffee?  No, wait, if she's drinking
all that other stuff...  oh, I need more coffee!

jane heggen

Re: BARF

[Maria Crifasi]

ok. I can't let this go by!

Cabernet and Vouvray (to go with the lobster)
Lobster and Filet Mignon with Bearnaise sauce
Chocolate Mousse
Skittles (blink, blink)
Columbian coffee and Earl Grey Tea

Maria Crifasi
The Snowy Catoctin Mountains, MD
- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Weber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Rose Tierney'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "'Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 10:29 AM
Subject: RE: BARF


> Hi,
> For the British:-)
> 
> Tea
> Chocolate
> Red Wine
> Cheese 
> 
> Not ONLY for the British, Rose!  A few of us Yankee drink only tea!  But
> I prefer the dry white wines.
> 
> Tea
> Chocolate
> White wine
> Cheese(all the boys agree on this one!)
> chocolate
> 
> Lynne and the guys
> Keyport, Washington
> 

Re: BARF/YahooGoup

[Liz Caldwell]

At 10:39 AM -0500 2/15/03, E M Poster wrote:
>Dear Vicky... I just went to YahooGroups and did a search for NaturalBerners
>in every shape and form that I can think of but alas I can not find it.  Can
>you help me here?
>BTW... I/We are new to the this list as well as a waiting list for a Berner
>Pup.  This E-List is a veritable fountain of information and we are loving
>every mintue of it.  Thank you all.
>Erica, Brad & Edyn
>Nikomis (feline family member)

try 

or

Re: BARF/YahooGoup

[E M Poster]

Dear Vicky... I just went to YahooGroups and did a search for NaturalBerners
in every shape and form that I can think of but alas I can not find it.  Can
you help me here?
BTW... I/We are new to the this list as well as a waiting list for a Berner
Pup.  This E-List is a veritable fountain of information and we are loving
every mintue of it.  Thank you all.
Erica, Brad & Edyn
Nikomis (feline family member)

RE: BARF

[Steve Weber]

Hi,
For the British:-)

Tea
Chocolate
Red Wine
Cheese 

Not ONLY for the British, Rose!  A few of us Yankee drink only tea!  But
I prefer the dry white wines.

Tea
Chocolate
White wine
Cheese(all the boys agree on this one!)
chocolate

Lynne and the guys
Keyport, Washington

BARF

[Vicky Whitney]

ORIGINAL POST:

From:"Jenn and Scott Waldron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I have been reading a lot about the BARF diet and have heard  a lot of 
positive things and no negatives. Are there any draw backs to a raw diet? 
Does a raw diet make the dog more aggressive and less domesticated? And 
finally, I have read that it is less expensive to feed a raw diet than 
commercial, I cant see how this is possible. Anyone with any information on 
draw backs of this diet please let me know.
Jenn (and soon very soon Charlie)<<<

Hello, Jenn, and WELCOME to your new baby Charlie!  Let me first tell you 
that the issue of raw diets (and BARF -- Biologically Appropriate Raw Foods, 
or Bones and Raw Foods) has caused some serious firestorms on this list in 
the past.  I think it was decreed that there would be no further DISCUSSION 
of the pros and cons of raw versus kibble on this list.  Anyone interested 
in raw diets is more than welcome to join the NaturalBerners group at 
yahoogroups.com (go to www.yahoogroups.com, search for NaturalBerners, and 
then follow the instructions to join).  On that list, you'll also find a lot 
of Berner owners practicing or interested in a more "natural" approach to 
Berner health.  Please join us and ask all the questions you'd like.

The time and money required for a raw diet depend on many factors, and I'd 
prefer to get into detail either privately or through the NaturalBerners 
list.  I CAN state emphatically that a raw diet does NOT affect a dog's 
aggressiveness!  As a matter of fact, someone was recently discussing on one 
of the raw lists the fact that her dogs will enthusiastically devour rabbit 
carcasses, yet play very gently and lovingly with their pet rabbits.  The 
only drawback I've found is that it does take more thought and planning than 
pouring something out of a bag.

I would like to state that no one should start a raw or BARF diet without 
thoroughly researching it, learning everything they can from several 
prominent experts, and discussing it with people who have been doing it for 
a while.  It's no more difficult than feeding a human family a wholesome, 
well-balanced, nutritious diet, but we all had to learn how to do that also.

Hug that baby Charlie for us!

Vicky Whitney in Bozeman, Montana, with
Blackcoral Divine Miss "M" (Maddie) CD NDD CGC Delta/ITA Therapy Dog (3)
Sascha's Ursa Major CGC Delta/ITA Therapy Dog (19 months)


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RE: BARF

[Rose Tierney]

Hi,
For the British:-)

Tea
Chocolate
Red Wine
Cheese 

Mine has two anti-oxidants!

Rose T.

Re: BARF

[jane heggen]

oh oh, I think I goofed in my reply.  I think Pat Long eats scrapple, not
snapple.  Maybe she drinks snapple, not coffee?  No, wait, if she's drinking
all that other stuff...  oh, I need more coffee!

jane heggen

- Original Message -
From: "wendy beard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: BARF


> At 11:26 PM 13/02/2003 -0600, Pat wrote:
> >My understanding of the four basic food groups for humans is
> >as follows:
> >
> >Chocolate
> >McDonald's
> >Potato Chips
> >Chocolate
> >
> >That's not a mistake, chocolate is important enough to be two separate
> >food groups
>
> Hee hee. Someone on the Belgian list has a sig. line which states
> "Chocolate: it's not just a food group; it's THE food group."
>
> too true!
> Wendy
>
> Boris Beard
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.rogers.com/bernerboris/bernerbooks.html
>
>
>

Re: BARF

[wendy beard]

At 11:26 PM 13/02/2003 -0600, Pat wrote:

My understanding of the four basic food groups for humans is
as follows:

Chocolate
McDonald's
Potato Chips
Chocolate

That's not a mistake, chocolate is important enough to be two separate
food groups


Hee hee. Someone on the Belgian list has a sig. line which states
"Chocolate: it's not just a food group; it's THE food group."

too true!
Wendy

Boris Beard
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/bernerboris/bernerbooks.html

BARF Diet

[JAL]

Jenn and Charlie--

I have been feeding a raw diet to my 2 Berners basically since I brought
them home from my breeder (I also feed a raw diet to my 5 cats too).  While
I know what to feed your pet is a personal decision, I have found my pets to
be healthier and I feel good about knowing what I am feeding my dogs and
cats.  As Pat alluded to, it is important that you understand the principles
of raw-diet feeding and nutrition before you decide if this diet is for you
and Charlie.  There are several books and websites out there that can aid
you in understanding this.  One is "Give Your Dog a Bone" by Dr. Ian
Billinghurst.  This book is easy to understand and explains the principles
of the BARF diet.  There is also a yahoo group specifically for people that
raw-feed their Berners called Natural Berners.

The only drawback to the diet that I can see is 1) you must do your homework
to understand the proper nutrition for the BARF diet (feeding raw meat alone
is not a balanced diet for your Berner), 2) there is a VERY small danger of
choking on bones fed whole--same could happen with a rawhide or anything
else that a dog might eat, 3) generally need to have a large freezer to hold
food

Someone else asked if it is okay to feed dogs raw pork.  I have been feeding
pork neckbones to my 2 Berners for two years now.  Not only is that their
FAVORITE meal, I have seen no ill effects of feeding raw pork to them.

In our area (Minnesota) we actually have a buyers group for purchasing raw
food for our pets.  The buyers group is open to anyone.  We buy meat in bulk
from a local wholesaler once a month and get excellent prices.  Our group
currently has 146 members--dog breeds represented are all across the
board--from little tiny dogs that couldn't even hope to lift a pork
neckbone, up to Great Danes. 

If you are interested in more info on the raw diet, feel free to e-mail me
privately.

I hope you enjoy every moment with Charlie!

Julie Latterell
Cooper and Owen and their 5 feline companions

Re: BARF

[jane heggen]

I don't know much, but I know better than to listen to a doctor about diet!
Coffee comes first!

Pat doesn't drink it.  She is so very strange...  She eats this weird stuff
that comes out of a can, looks like some kind of strange, pressed meat, I
think they call it snapple?

jane heggen & the boys of iowa

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: BARF


> I see that you do in deed lack dietary knowledge, Pat, tho you have a good
> understanding of the basics. You listed the 4 basic food groups as:
>
> Chocolate
> McDonald's
> Potato Chips
> Chocolate
>
> You scored a 50%,which is really pretty good, you are half there. Here is
the
> correct list, based on my intensive research and experience on one one
human
> being (me.)
>
> Chocolate
> Coffee
> Pina coladas
> Chocolate
>
> After all, it is what I crave and nature knows best! :-)
>
> Vilma Briggs (Kistner)
> Mt. Gilead, OH
> U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT
> Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT
> U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT
> Thirdtym's A Charm, CGC
> and Ted
>
>
>

Re: BARF

[Dr. William B. Neff]

H .I think that Pat is going to have to add a 5th (no pun intended) 
item (Margueritas) to her four basic food groups!!!

Joye Neff

--On Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:10 PM -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:r


On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:48:00 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I see that you do in deed lack dietary knowledge, Pat, tho you have a
good
understanding of the basics. You listed the 4 basic food groups as:

Chocolate
McDonald's
Potato Chips
Chocolate

You scored a 50%,which is really pretty good, you are half there.
Here is the
correct list, based on my intensive research and experience on one
one human
being (me.)

Chocolate
Coffee
Pina coladas
Chocolate


Actually Vilma, I think you are both fairly close but you are scoring 75%
due to ethnic differences. Down here in my neck of the woods I would have
to say we list the 4 groups as:

Chocolate
Coffee
Margueritas
Chocolate

Viva la difference

Susan Ablon
Gweebarra BMD
Balch Springs, Tx
http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara

Re: BARF

[gwebara]

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:48:00 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I see that you do in deed lack dietary knowledge, Pat, tho you have a 
> good 
> understanding of the basics. You listed the 4 basic food groups as:
> 
> Chocolate
> McDonald's
> Potato Chips
> Chocolate
> 
> You scored a 50%,which is really pretty good, you are half there. 
> Here is the 
> correct list, based on my intensive research and experience on one 
> one human 
> being (me.)
> 
> Chocolate
> Coffee
> Pina coladas
> Chocolate

Actually Vilma, I think you are both fairly close but you are scoring 75%
due to ethnic differences. Down here in my neck of the woods I would have
to say we list the 4 groups as:

Chocolate
Coffee
Margueritas
Chocolate

Viva la difference

Susan Ablon
Gweebarra BMD
Balch Springs, Tx
http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara

Re: BARF

[Brnrmom]

I see that you do in deed lack dietary knowledge, Pat, tho you have a good 
understanding of the basics. You listed the 4 basic food groups as:

Chocolate
McDonald's
Potato Chips
Chocolate

You scored a 50%,which is really pretty good, you are half there. Here is the 
correct list, based on my intensive research and experience on one one human 
being (me.)

Chocolate
Coffee
Pina coladas
Chocolate

After all, it is what I crave and nature knows best! :-)

Vilma Briggs (Kistner)
Mt. Gilead, OH
U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT
Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT
U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT
Thirdtym's A Charm, CGC
and Ted

RE: BARF

[Pat Long & Paul Dangel]

Jean,

The biggest drawback I know of the BARF diet is a lack of dietary
knowledge. My understanding of the four basic food groups for humans is
as follows:

Chocolate
McDonald's
Potato Chips
Chocolate

That's not a mistake, chocolate is important enough to be two separate
food groups. Green is not a color that I like to see in food.
Personally, I've been waiting for People Chow so I can just keep a bag
in the kitchen and grab a handful every time I walk by.

As you might imagine, I have a difficult time forcing myself to prepare
a balanced meal. I wouldn't have the slightest idea what would
constitute a balanced diet for another species!

Pat Long
Berwyn PA

BARF

[Jenn and Scott Waldron]

Thank you everyone who sent me information and supply lists. I am just about
ready for my boy to come home. I have one last issue to resolve. I have been
reading a lot about the BARF diet and have heard  a lot of positive things
and no negatives. Are there any draw backs to a raw diet? Does a raw diet
make the dog more aggressive and less domesticated? And finally, I have read
that it is less expensive to feed a raw diet than commercial, I cant see how
this is possible. Anyone with any information on draw backs of this diet
please let me know.



Thank you
Jenn (and soon very soon Charlie)